We Made It Weird #214

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #214

Date: April 18, 2025
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-host: Valerie (Val) Holmes

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is a classic “We Made It Weird” installment, where Pete and Val catch up on life’s oddities, blend lighthearted riffing with deep emotional exploration, and, as always, share their secret weirdness. The show’s backbone is a candid, vulnerable discussion about family dynamics, emotional healing, and the sometimes unglamorous process of inner growth – all delivered with Pete and Val’s signature blend of wit and sincerity.

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Episode Structure

• [00:00–01:06] Intro, episode set-up, sponsor message (skipped)
• [05:17–32:05] Light riffing, playful conversation, social observations, and stories about friends
• [32:05–68:49] Deep dive into family issues, navigating disappointment, shame, vulnerability, and the process of emotional healing

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Generational Transitions & Mental Bandwidth

Timestamps: [06:07–09:44]

• Pete and Val reminisce about life before adulthood's mental overload – how in their twenties, things seemed manageable without a planner, but adulthood and parenthood bring a mental burden that cannot be managed by memory alone.
• Quote:
  "I didn't have a calendar or a planner or any sort of schedule for, I think, almost all of my 20s... I just remembered it." – Valerie ([06:45])
• They riff on the inevitability of memory decline and the humor that comes with aging, like “Salon Dijon” for Celine Dion.

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2. The Malcolm Gladwell Riff: Intellectualism & Selective Interest

Timestamps: [10:26–24:24]

• Pete describes the “man moment” of putting on Malcolm Gladwell’s Revisionist History, the gendered dynamic of content preference, and intellectual validation through pseudo-intellectual media.
• Val is “intellectually bored” by Gladwell's topics (“dog hair in a shoebox”) and expresses frustration at the cultural notion that interest in certain topics equates to intelligence.
• Quote:
  "If you're not interested in this, you're not intelligent." – Valerie ([22:14])
• The pair riff on the performative aspect of intellectual curiosity and the natural jealousy at others’ bandwidth for niche interests.

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3. The Bandwidth Metaphor & Self-Acceptance

Timestamps: [24:24–32:05]

• They connect interest in hobbies (e.g., veganism, video games) to times in life when emotional capacity allows for such pursuits.
• Stories about Kumail Nanjiani’s inadvertent cuteness (trying to wink 40 times, snowboarding video game “sweet moves”) highlight how diminished bandwidth and stress reframe what pleasures are possible.
• Quote:
  "You're buying maybe a better life... an alternate reality for yourself." – Pete ([28:18])

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4. Setting Up the Emotional Dive: Family, Shame & Healing

Timestamps: [32:12–35:09]

• Pete foreshadows a more “special” and “heavy” than usual episode, focusing on real-time emotional processing about family and self-worth.
• Val and Pete tee up a discussion of therapy and healing frameworks (Hillary McBride quote coming).

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5. Family Pain & The Reality of Disappointment

Timestamps: [35:09–47:26]

• The heart of the episode: Pete recounts a significant disappointment – learning that his father, contrary to what Pete had been told, did not go see his Christmas movie in theaters.
  • The pain is compounded when Pete learns his father only watched part of the movie later on TV, then turned it off, apparently disinterested.
• Pete describes the emotional whiplash: joy at feeling “reached” followed by sadness when his “child self” realizes the connection or validation he yearned for didn’t happen.
• Quote:
  "There's the shift of your reality. And it's not just a reality. It's the reality of your child self. This thing that was precious, that you’re even embarrassed that it was precious to you.” – Pete ([45:45])

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6. Internal Family Systems, Protectors, & Permission to Feel

Timestamps: [47:26–53:05]

• Val provides an emotional map of self-protection: when unmet needs resurface, protectors (defensive behaviors, humor, emotional walls) rush in to shield the vulnerable inner child.
• They normalize the drive to make oneself wrong to protect the image of the parent as “safe and right,” especially in childhood.
• Pete admits to a cycle of anger and internal criticism following family encounters, and how this armor functions as a shield.
• Quote:
  "This is the flawed armor that we have. But it'll work. It'll keep everyone the fuck away from you. Because, in that moment, you feel under threat." – Pete ([53:05])

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7. Insights from Therapy & Hillary McBride

Timestamps: [53:07–57:26]

• Val shares her takeaways from Hillary McBride’s new book, Holy Hurt:
  “We have defined healing as something going away. Instead, healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting... and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved and eventually to love them ourselves.” ([39:45])
• They discuss how shame about having feelings adds an additional layer of suffering, and the value of allowing oneself to be sad, angry, or disappointed without compounding it with self-judgment.
• There’s no “finish line” in healing; the goal is not to eliminate pain, but to change one’s relationship to it.

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8. The Paradox of Healing: Softness, Presence & Sadness

Timestamps: [57:26–62:15]

• Sharing practical approaches to “sitting with hard feelings,” Val describes being in a bathtub, allowing the somatic experience of sadness without weaving a story of self-blame or future doom.
• They echo that “numbness” or dissociation is more painful than feeling sadness directly; sadness, properly attended to, fosters openness, softness, and genuine aliveness.
• Quote:
  “Even when I'm sad, I'm like, oh, look at how soft and open and really alive I am. Like, really, really awake.” – Valerie ([58:48])

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9. Vulnerability in Community & The Light Cracks Through

Timestamps: [59:10–62:15]

• Pete reflects on how vulnerability makes him “need people” and the necessity of connection when cracked open by life’s hardships, citing Richard Rohr and Leonard Cohen (“the cracks are what makes the light get through”).

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10. The Kathy Bates Metaphor: Seeing Our Own Goodness

Timestamps: [64:41–66:46]

• Val recounts a moving Kathy Bates interview: when accepting her Oscar, Bates’s mother later accused her of not thanking her, even though she did. The reality check is both heartbreaking and healing – a metaphor for how we wrongly carry family burdens/guilt.
• Quote:
  “I did thank them. I was good. It was never about me. It wasn't me. I don't have to carry that.” – Valerie ([66:38])
• Pete acknowledges:
  “Building a story—that’s me going like, well, it's too much...to ask for someone to go to the movie.”
  This reveals how easily we blame ourselves for unmet needs in an attempt to protect ourselves from further pain.

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11. Integration & Closing

Timestamps: [66:53–68:49]

• Pete and Valerie honor the episode’s vulnerability and invite listeners to share stories of their own, especially if moved by the discussion around parental disappointment or healing.
• They celebrate the restorative feeling that follows honesty – “not deflated, but succulent,” “marinated, like, at capacity,” and reaffirm the power in sharing one’s weird and wounded places.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "In the 90s, even into the early 2000s, if you had a day planner — nerd. Or you were a lawyer, or a regular person pretending to be a lawyer." – Pete ([07:20])
• "Not everything in life can be interesting. Otherwise, nothing is interesting." – Valerie ([14:27])
• "Salty Valerie finally showed up. And I loved it." – Pete ([13:41])
• "And then magical mysteries. Cats." – Pete, riffing on Malcolm Gladwell’s style ([21:07])
• "This is a gossip podcast." – Pete, breaking the tension ([31:48])
• "There's Kumail, and there's Cute-mail." – Pete ([26:37])
• "Distance plus desire equals delusion." – Valerie, quoting Hillary McBride ([36:14])
• "Healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting...and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved." – Valerie, quoting Hillary McBride ([39:45])
• "That's the flawless thing. It's like, how did you know to feel confused and angry and sad? ...Holy shit. This is like, a truly incredible mosaic." – Pete ([58:48])
• "We are taking the burdens that we took on as Children in order to make our parents right. And we're looking at reality and we're going, wait, I did thank them. I was good. It wasn't me. I don't have to carry that." – Valerie ([66:38])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:07 – Losing track of things and adulthood brain fog
• 11:25 – The Malcolm Gladwell / Revisionist History story
• 22:05–24:24 – Feeling “jealous” of others’ mental space for niche pursuits
• 27:05 – The playful Kumail “40 winks” and sweet snowboarding story
• 35:12 – Setting up the conversation about recent family pain
• 36:14 – "Distance plus desire equals delusion" – explaining disappointment
• 39:45 – Quote from Hillary McBride about the nature of healing
• 45:45 – Pete’s detailed narrative of his disappointment with his father and the movie
• 53:05 – Defensive protectors and the anger response
• 57:26 – "Sitting with” pain, presence, and openness
• 62:15 – Leonard Cohen cracks/light through, musical inspiration
• 66:38 – The Kathy Bates story as a metaphor for healing
• 68:08 – “Thank you for showing us what real courage looks like."

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Tender, honest, and — even in darkness — humane and funny. Pete and Val show that healing is not about burying pain or “beating” feelings, but about letting our wounds be heard, seen, and softened. Listeners are invited into a rare space of real-time healing, with practical insights and a message that simply feeling broken is not a failure; it is, in fact, where the light gets in.

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Suggested Listen For...

Anyone who has:

• Struggled with unmet parental expectations or disappointments
• Tussled with shame about emotional "setbacks" in adulthood
• Wondered how to actually “feel their feelings” instead of thinking them
• Needed solidarity in their own weirdness and wounds

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Closing

Pete and Val’s willingness to “go there” makes this episode extra rich – a blend of laughter, wisdom, humility, and real-time processing.
“Keep it crispy.”

Transcript

[Valerie]

You made it with. You made it weird. You made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, you made it weird. Yes. You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? The second half of this podcast is so heavy that we mentioned that. Oh, now we have to do the intro and this is that intro.

[Valerie]

This is that intro. It gets. It gets really special. It's. It's sort of like an extra special episode.

[Pete Holmes]

Special episode. Yeah, I agree. Because not. We don't normally deal with these things, like so fresh in real. In real, real time.

[Valerie]

And because it takes extra courage to do that.

[Pete Holmes]

So classic. We made it weird. If you guys haven't listened to this, these are the bonus episodes where me and Val catch up and in. In the classic way. First half of the episode, a lot of riffing. Silly Billy, silly Billies, silly. Second half, a little more of a deep dive into internal family systems and therapy and really, I think, important conversations.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So we're glad you're here. My tour dates are on PeteHomes.com I'm coming to Austin if you. Oh, no, this. If you hear this the day it comes out tomorrow, I'm in Austin, so I hope you can come to the show. Petehomes.com and we just added a second show in Boston. That's all I'll say. All my tour dates are on peteholmes.com and this show is brought to you by sponsors that we actually use and actually love. So please, if you like this show, it's a great, direct way to support it. Try one of these wonderful things. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Apollo Neuro. That's what this is. You probably see me wearing this little piece of wearable technology in every episode of this podcast because I never take my Apollo off. That's not in entirely true. My daughter recently took my Apollo off and she lost it. And I didn't have it for three days. And I couldn't believe what a difference I noticed in my life. My sleep took a nosedive. I was waking up in the night. My anxiety, my calmness, my overall sense of well being. It's true. Apollo sends sub perceptual meaning. You can have it on a very low setting, which is what I do. Vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your body in its own language, in a language that it can understand, that makes it feel safe, held and in control. And what I mean when I say it's true, it's true that it Works. This is not woo woo. This is made by a board certified psychiatrist and a I want to get this right. A neuroscientist. Got to get the right kind of science in there. Apollo Neuro is a wearable that helps your body recover from stress by sending those vibrations into your nervous system. Helping you sleep, sleep, focus, relax and be more productive. It's worn on the wrist like me or the ankle like Val. Apollo Neuro is like finding the fuse box for your body with the emotions, with settings like energy and wake up, social and open, clear and focused joy, rebuild and recover calm, unwind and fall asleep. As I mentioned, I turn it on to fall asleep but then it automatically reruns the program while I'm asleep to keep me asleep. It's a chemical free sleep aid. It is incredible. It is a game changer. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery recovery has been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get $40 off at ApolloNeuro.com weird and use promo code weird that's a P-O-L-L-O-N-E U-R-O.com weird. Use promo code weird for $40 off. Also, this show is sponsored by Better Help. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100, the copy says to 250. Ha ha. Try 350 in LA. What are you nuts? It goes way up beyond that and that adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you play, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and time. Therapy. We're big believers in therapy on the show. Obviously it should feel accessible, not like a luxury luxury. And with online therapy, you can get qu quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety, boundaries, relationships and everyday stress. Believe me, your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. Therapy is the greater than the sum of its parts. It has helped me so dramatically set up healthy boundaries with my family. Get out of toxic relationships, friendships, work situations. It is a game changer. So give yourself the gift of therapy. It couldn't be easier with BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus you can switch therapists at any time, your wellbeing is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com weirdo today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H.lp.com weirdo All right, everybody, we're glad you're here.

[Valerie]

Valerie, go ahead and get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Boom shakalaka. Welcome to what are we. What?

[Valerie]

Let me start the way that you've been starting.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, please, go ahead.

[Valerie]

Actually, you did mix it up a little.

[Pete Holmes]

No, go ahead. No, no, no, no. Lately, the guy who's interrupting but telling you to go ahead. No, go ahead. Go, go. But anyway. So go ahead. Go ahead.

[Valerie]

Yeah, no, but anyway, you do it.

[Pete Holmes]

You do what? You going to do it. Fine. I'm humble. Like Kendrick Lamar said, I'm humble. I love his ditty about sit down and just be humble. Let's get ready to humble.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Just a little steam shooting off espresso machine before we make the latte.

[Valerie]

You just keep going. I'm gonna change the lighting.

[Pete Holmes]

No, go ahead.

[Valerie]

I usually do in the beginning.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, well, Kendra, I will say I'm 46. And one of the things I've noticed, like, on the day I started calling, like, things like what my mom would say, like, I'm like, who's that actor? Arthur Picklebottom? Someone's like Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I'm like, right. Like, overnight.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

45 to 46. Big diff. I'm feeling it. You know, I'm a chowder.

[Valerie]

I realized, like. Yeah, I think we are. So, okay, this is what.

[Pete Holmes]

Go ahead. You do it. You do you.

[Valerie]

I realized that I didn't have a calendar or a planner or any sort of schedule for, I think, almost all of my 20s. And by schedule, I mean I had things and places that I had to be.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Valerie]

Things that I had to do in places that I had to be that I just didn't write it down. I just remembered it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you. You know, I really. I'm just so taken with you and I. This is such a. We made it weird topic. I didn't even know we made it weird. Topics have such a flavor.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is a perfect one. In the 90s, even into the early 2000s, if you had a day planner.

[Valerie]

Yeah. You're like, nerd.

[Pete Holmes]

Nerd. One, two. I'm gonna say something even bolder. You were a lawyer, or if you were a regular person, you were a regular person pretending to be a lawyer. And most of the things you wrote in your day planner were after the fact.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you had Lunch with Dave. And then you went and were like, lunch with Dave.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you wanted to write it. Having it.

[Valerie]

I had a job and was a master's student. Brag and brag. Anytime. Any chance I can get. What was my thesis on? You say? I don't remember.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Valerie]

So, yeah, it stuck.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie Ann.

[Valerie]

But I did. I'm pretty sure I did that entire program without writing anything that I had. I just, like, had my class schedule.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. This is why I remember being kind of vaguely tense. I didn't know what was happening or when it was happening. But see, I think what day it.

[Valerie]

Was, we remembered it. And then. What's happening now is obviously our brains are decaying for sure. But we're. I think especially after you become a parent. But probably just normal, regular adult life. You're holding so much in your brain.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

That you can't remember the names of actors. And you can't remember.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm busted.

[Valerie]

Like your own kids, friends, names. And all of a sudden, I can.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember, you know, what it is. And I don't know what it was for my mom. Cause she, in my mind, famously called Celine Dion Salon Dijon, which was one of the great gifts of my life. When she said it, I was like, you know, I kneaded a new bit.

[Valerie]

I kneaded a knee bit.

[Pete Holmes]

I kneaded a knee bit.

[Valerie]

You know, I kneaded that.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, I knead a knead bit. I knead a nude bit. That's when you put your dangle in the dough.

[Valerie]

And I think we should check. Yeah. Three minutes in. Always a dick joke.

[Pete Holmes]

Well.

[Valerie]

Or diarrhea.

[Pete Holmes]

Hold on. Pause. All right, guys. That whole intro was AI generated. Can you believe it? We're living in a new world where you can do pranks like that and be like. That was all AI. We said create the. And it was like. Remember that scheduling thing? That was pretty close.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Pretty close to something. We would refund that.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And if any. Yeah. If we hit any lulls, we can.

[Pete Holmes]

Just blame it on the AI.

[Valerie]

See, it's not as good as we are.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's how I was gonna start this episode. I was gonna say. But how are you gonna do it?

[Valerie]

Oh, welcome to. We made It Weird. Where we get really wacky and wild here in Weirdville. Like, you've been doing that sort of radio.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is what I was gonna do this time. I was gonna say, welcome to. What are we thinking? What are we watching? And what are we feeling?

[Valerie]

Yes. That has been how you started it.

[Pete Holmes]

A podcast where we are powerless to change or decipher our lives in any meaningful way.

[Valerie]

Yes, that's it.

[Pete Holmes]

But we will meet once a week to audio dump it on you in the hopes that somehow the collective unconscious holding the burden of our lives will somehow soften it. But so far, it's not working. Yeah. I also want you to take down I love Malcolm Gladwell very, very much so not take down Malcolm Gladwell, because I really. But we had a really funny moment yesterday. You know, I was going to say, your mom is visiting. That's not really important. But like, so we got away.

[Valerie]

We got away. We got away.

[Pete Holmes]

It's fun to get away. And we were driving into la and. And it was. I realized it was such like a specifically man guy moment that I was like, let's listen to Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell's podcast. And I put it on. He's talking about US News and world. World and how they rank the colleges. And I'm so interested.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And you were so uninterested that I was like, this is good. Like, Malcolm Gladwell himself would be like, what is that why when a man puts on my podcast, I had my marching orders.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

I decided to figure out welcome to Revisionist History, where I get excited about things Val can't even pretend to be excited about.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. And just, like, makes me angry. Cause you said something not in, like. I wish I could remember what it was because it wasn't in a. It really wasn't in, like, a condescending way. But it sort of. It sort of is this thing where I feel like if you're an intellectual, then you will love listening to Malcolm Gladwell and how they rank colleges and, you know, whatever. And. And so that. That makes me mad is because I'm like, I'm smart and I fucking don't give a shit about any of this.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what's. I'm. You said it even better than I could have hoped you would say it. Because it's a little bit like you flick the lights on when I was, like, painting my face with like, Philadelphia cream cheese.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In the bathroom. And you caught me doing this weird thing I like to do, which is getting validated by listening to a podcast that is intell but not so intellectual that it makes me feel dumb.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But quite the opposite. It's just skating on the edge of things. Like, every once in a while they'll say something I don't understand. And I like that. But I stay with it. So I guess this is a very long winded way of saying it's stimulating to me, but really so much of it has to do with me proving to myself, like, I can listen to.

[Valerie]

This, I can care about things like this.

[Pete Holmes]

I care about this.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then I get like a. The opposite response where I'm like, look, I can't make myself care about this. But, like, that doesn't mean that I don't want to learn about the things that I am interested in. I just don't want to learn about literally anything and everything, which is what.

[Pete Holmes]

Malcolm Gladwell, who is a seven the enthusiast's enthusiast.

[Valerie]

And I'm really happy.

[Pete Holmes]

Say the thing you said. Say the thing you said. I kept going, if you want. If you bore her, you will adore her.

[Valerie]

I went on.

[Pete Holmes]

Val was killing it. We've seen Salty Pete. Salty Pete will turn on a child at a birthday party. Valerie finally. Salty Valerie finally showed up. And I loved it.

[Valerie]

Well, I didn't tell you this. What I was thinking, like, this podcast is where Malcolm Gladwell sort of dissects things that people are, are against. Isn't that the, like, what's revision?

[Pete Holmes]

Commonly misunderstood or something.

[Valerie]

Commonly misunderstood. And I was like, I think he should do this on himself. Like, people are.

[Pete Holmes]

We're now we're at a New York party as a glass of red wine, and he's like, that's actually a brilliant idea.

[Valerie]

I know he would.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like. So I decided a new subject. Malcolm Gladwell, me, by the way, this.

[Valerie]

Is my feeling is like, it's like how you're like, I'm cool with Jesus. It's followers that I don't like. That's how I feel about Malcolm Gladwell. I have no beef against Malcolm Gladwell, but I was going like, mm, it's positively Gladwellian. And I was like, we can't trust this guy's excitement because he would be excited about dog hair in a shoebox under a bed. And you're like, we took it under a microscope and did the mathematics of this dog hair. And what we found was quite alarming. And we're like, is it, Is it or is it just the least interesting thing in the world? And not everything in life can be interesting. Otherwise nothing is interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I, I really, I. I love everything you're saying, and I love Malcolm Gladwell. And there is something going on, like, when you're. And we're both kind of going through it. We've both been like, depressed this week and upset me. Depressed is simultaneously and in Equal measure. Positively Glad Williams. Sadness and anger.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And then when you're sad, angry, stressed, clenched.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you listen to someone talking about US News and World Report and how they rank the colleges, there is a real, like, must be nice.

[Valerie]

Yeah. That's how it works.

[Pete Holmes]

Must be nice. You're going around, going, but what about the cafeterias? Do the cafeterias come into play?

[Valerie]

You have so much room in your.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what it is. It's jealousy. It's jealousy in your being that you.

[Valerie]

Can, like, explored this very niche. Niche. I was. I. You know what? I struggled there because. I want to say niche, but I feel like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because, well, Frederick. Nishi.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nishi believed that Esotero was dead.

[Valerie]

Nice.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you. I know. That's exactly what we're talking about. It is very New Yorker cartoon, like. Like, those are the laughs. And that's why when he. When he went and we agreed, and Malcolm Gladwell did this podcast, and I think he's a delight. I think he's changed my life for the better. I love him. And when you're listening to a podcast and you're stressed and angry about your family. Both of us.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he goes like, all right, what is the algorithm? I had my marching orders. And he says it like, it's delicious.

[Valerie]

He loves.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, I. When he said specifically I had my marching orders, I was like, you need to march off a cliff, bro. I can't. Yeah, that's how I felt.

[Valerie]

It sort of is like, you know, that part of. I think It's. This is 40 or. No, it's knocked up. Where Paul Rudd is watching the. His daughters play with bubbles. And he's like, I wish I felt it's jealousy. Wish I felt that way about anything.

[Pete Holmes]

And when I'm lit up and alive, Malcolm Gladwell is the sound of me being lit up and alive. Also, we notice that he sounds like Mulaney and he sounds like Birbiglia. Both of which are New York intellectuals.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And when I talk. I talked to Birglia.

[Valerie]

I think the. Ls hard. I don't know about Birbiglia, actually, but.

[Pete Holmes]

I know Birbiglia for sure.

[Valerie]

Melania.

[Pete Holmes]

Melania is definitely going like, so how do they come up with the news? And I can't do it. But it's very.

[Valerie]

And it's delicious.

[Pete Holmes]

I had my marching orders. I had my marching orders. I can't do it.

[Valerie]

I know. I can't do it either.

[Pete Holmes]

That's okay.

[Valerie]

But it really did hit this.

[Pete Holmes]

It's Very New York.

[Valerie]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not coded. That's usually code for Jewish, by the way. I just want to call that out. Yeah, we're not doing that. We're saying it's very New York in this other way. By the way. Here's the other thing I'll say about Malcolm Gladwell. Nothing would feel better when I listened to it. This is the other embarrassing thing. I imagine him analyzing me because he always is like, debra Messing was the copy editor at the New Yorker. Is that somebody.

[Valerie]

That's Grace from Will and Grace.

[Pete Holmes]

C46. That wasn't on purpose. I even said Debra Messing and was like, good job. You thought of, like, a nothing name. And it's like a fucking famous. It's Grace from Will and Grace.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, God. Let's do another one. Danny DeVito was the copy editor, but he's like. She gracefully underlines each mistake with a sharp number two pencil. And you're like. Like you want. He's like, at his best is like the stark spotlight of awareness.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He sees, allows, and appreciates everything.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like there's something divine about it.

[Valerie]

I agree.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not even going back. Cause I was like, you gotta march off a cliff. I'm saying when you're angry, sad, and afraid, someone going like, what happened to wooden matchsticks? You go like, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

[Valerie]

Shut the fuck up.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't. You. Because it's like talking to someone who's in love and you're in a bad marriage.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And your fucking wife has got a cigarette with a long ash. And she's doing runny eggs in a skillet.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like, my wife made me a breakfast buffet. That way I could decide the portions of cantaloupe. Why is cantaloupe. Shut the up?

[Valerie]

Yeah, that is exactly right. You're just like, I. Life is. I remember I used to feel this way when, like, my ex husband used to love to watch how. How things are made. Or how.

[Pete Holmes]

How I met your mother.

[Valerie]

No, no.

[Pete Holmes]

How love is made.

[Valerie]

No, there's like a show that's just the McFeely videotape portion of Mr. McFly.

[Pete Holmes]

That's Mr. McFeely.

[Valerie]

Oh, so sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Just call him McFeely. It's Mr. McFeely.

[Valerie]

Mr. McFeely. Obviously.

[Pete Holmes]

Mistoffeles. It's Mr. Misto.

[Valerie]

And I would never call him Mistoffeles.

[Pete Holmes]

There's gotta be a joke there where it's like, please call me blah, blah, Mr. Mistoffeles. Is my cat.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

If your name was Dan Mistoffeles and someone said, Excuse me, Mr. Mistoffeles, please call me Dan. Mr. Mistopolis is a famous musical cat. I want my name to be Mistoffeles.

[Valerie]

Just for that bit so bad. And that would be Greek, we think Mistoffeles. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Distinctly misophiles. Mistoffeles.

[Valerie]

Distinctly Mistoffeles. Just as Mistopheles proved in his. Oh, I can't.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's getting Riff in that area where he's like. And this exploration of the crisis in Haiti brought us to an unexpected place. And then magical mysteries. Cats.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And when I was in a bad mood listening to it, he'd be like, this journey takes us everywhere.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Portland, Oregon. Did it take us there, or did you just talk to someone in Portland?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Are we on a hobbit's journey or did you zoom with someone in Portland?

[Valerie]

I love that we bumped against that at the same time because he was like, it'll take us to unexpected places like Portland, Oregon. And you're like, okay. The most boring, benign. I love Portland. But there's nothing thrill Portland.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. It's not like Bali.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's going to take us weird places.

[Valerie]

Oh, somewhere intellectual took you to the Pacific Northwest. What?

[Pete Holmes]

To talk to students who had been looking at Look.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then when I'm lit up, I'm not going to. I'm going to stop apologizing. Malcolm Gladwell. Everything I know about him would be tickled pink listening to this conversation.

[Valerie]

Sure. And that's why I. That's what I mean is I have nothing against him. I think he's darling and he's a light in this world.

[Pete Holmes]

Change my life.

[Valerie]

But where I bump against is like, it is this defense of, like, if you're not interested in this. And you know what the feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

What Finish that. If you're not.

[Valerie]

You're not interested in this. You're not intelligent. You're not like, you know, like.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. It's like when people are having fun at a wedding and they do the chicken dance and you don't want to do the chicken dance. And they're like, you don't like fun. And it's like, I only like fun. I reject that. This is fun. Wooden matchsticks used to be a staple. The earliest mention of them.

[Valerie]

My brother. I really give my brother credit for making me interested in being an intellectual at all. Just because he was my older brother and I was going to be into whatever he was into and he happened to be A smarty pants. But I know he was experiencing this from other people, so it's. It's not his fault. But I. It reminds me of trying to pretend to, like, you know, like, Bayla Fleck and the Fleck tones or like, you, sir, or the off brand Monty Python or, like, you know, all these things.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't like the nights that say nay here. We talk about this a lot. We talked about this last week. It's Jesse Eisenberg. It is proverbial.

[Valerie]

So I just.

[Pete Holmes]

And Jesse Eisenberg is a New York intellectual type.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Where he's like. Well, it's. It's like. It's like Aaron Sorkin is their wet dream.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They know everything.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're fast in how they know it, and they say it and they actually tie. It's also Rob Bell. Rob Bell is who we love. Is like. And Jesus's sandals. What does that have to do with ice cream in Minneapolis? And you're like, if you're not, I.

[Valerie]

Can'T take that journey with you, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Give me 12 hours of sleep and a triple espresso and good news, then I'll be ready.

[Valerie]

Oh, this is.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's just jealousy. I'm looking at how much fun all of these people are having, and I go, God damn it. I'm still the freaky kid in the back that's like, fuck you.

[Valerie]

Well, you know what we're really touching on is. And this is what I. The point I was trying to make of the story, the show, how this was made or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Valerie]

Is just like taking, like, matchsticks or tires or, like, toasters, like, the most random thing and showing how it's made.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I used to get the same feeling where I'm like, aren't we all so overwhelmed by life that we're barely hanging on with our view of things? I can't remember. Like, I can't be reminded that every tiny little detail of an object has a whole process. Process of getting made. Like, that's. That's widening the scope way too much. And so that's the real. Obviously the fire behind this protector. Who is a stinker about this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Is that I'm like. And I specifically was overwhelmed when we were listening to it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Where I'm like, this is so upsetting that you're so regulated and life is so not overwhelming to you that you want to widen the scope to. To literally everything. To the rankings of colleges.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I can't let that in.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm going to.

[Valerie]

Barely hanging on.

[Pete Holmes]

As a. As a flexi. Vegan. That's also what's annoying about vegans. And I'm saying this about myself.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, can't it just be chicken? Shut up. And, like, the times in my life when I've been the most vegan were the times when I was getting incredible amounts of sleep.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Very fulfilling work, happy, easy, single. Like, I was dating you, but you know what I mean? Like, it was easy.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I was very into explaining how factory farming. You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

Right. And also, that is.

[Pete Holmes]

That must be nice.

[Valerie]

You were falling in love during.

[Pete Holmes]

I was also very in love. Yes.

[Valerie]

Which is.

[Pete Holmes]

So I still am. Wink, wink.

[Valerie]

I know, I know. But, like, the beginning. Sorry. He has to do 40 winks.

[Pete Holmes]

Otherwise I won't sleep for a month. I won't sleep.

[Valerie]

That's one of my favorite Kumail stories, actually. There's these little moments where Kumail is, like. Will be just, like, so unexpectedly adorable.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Cute. Male.

[Valerie]

He's very. He can be very cute.

[Pete Holmes]

There's Kumail and there's cute mail, and there was.

[Valerie]

We love them both at a party, and. And somebody was like. We were sort of riffing on, like, why is it 40 wings? 40 wings is not sleep. That's the shortest sleep ever.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what it is. 40 winks is like a nap is a nap.

[Valerie]

So it's like the short. I don't know what the riff was, but we were riffing on it, and then we moved on, and I looked over at Kumail, and he was just to himself, trying to wink 40 times.

[Pete Holmes]

That really, really brings me back.

[Valerie]

It was so cute.

[Pete Holmes]

2001, coming up with Kumail and just noticing, like, this guy's a sweetie. He's just a sweet guy.

[Valerie]

Yeah. We also. One of our favorite moments is, can.

[Pete Holmes]

We get a burrito?

[Valerie]

No. It was the video game. The skiing video game. You have to explain that one, because I love this. This made me love Kumail forever.

[Pete Holmes]

I really. I really feel a huge burden to get this right.

[Valerie]

Yeah, you should. That's why I gave it to you.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna say this. We're talking about the same thing. This whole episode. Malcolm Gladwell and what we're about to talk about and some of the. I can't even be troubled to remember the other things. Oh, veganism. Just. We're talking about bandwidth.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Kumail has the bandwidth for video games now that Leela is six. I play video games more than I used to, but I am Certainly not. Like, I'll buy a. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna get the new Switch, but if I buy a Nintendo Switch, it's in the same spirit that you'd buy a book in the hopes that you would have a future that allowed for time to do that.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you're buying maybe a better life.

[Valerie]

Like an alternate reality for yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm buy a Nintendo Switch 2 because in this new fantasy that I'll be living in.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I have so much time and my emails are so answered and my work is so down that I'm going to play Mario Kart Open World. Fuck you.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So anyway, Kumail does still play video games, and we went to their house. This is a long, long time ago.

[Valerie]

But I was gonna say, I. I don't know. We don't know that for sure, but I think he is probably still playing video games.

[Pete Holmes]

I would bet every. Well, let's not get crazy. But I would bet a large sum that Kumail is still loving video games. But he was like, it was so cute. It was like we were junior high boys and he was showing the fun girls his new game, and he was like, I won't do the voice. There was a time. There was. There was a time I would have done the voice, but the voice, like, I can do it that well, that it's known as the Voice. I won't do my bad Kumail impression. Yeah, but Kumail is like, check this out. There's this great game. It's a snowboarding game. You can do all these. It's like Napoleon Dynamite. He's like, you can do all these sweet moves. You can do all these sweet moves. So he loads it up. No, no, no, no, it's already up.

[Valerie]

No, he's playing it. Yeah, he's going down the hill, but he's.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he's at the top of the hill and he's about to. He's like, watch. You can do all these sweet moves. And then he does these two hops.

[Valerie]

The smallest.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, it's kind of like figuring out the buttons. It's like kind of a new game. So he pushes the jump button because the guy isn't moving. It looks like a guy struggling with the equipment. Like, it's such a realistic game. It looks like what a real guy would look like if he was kind of trying to find his feet.

[Valerie]

He's, for the first time in his life, trying to do a little jump.

[Pete Holmes]

And he did two. When I say pathetic, it doesn't even Begin to paint the picture of how stupid these jumps were right off of the back of him bragging. And it is important to a girl. Look at these sweet moves you can do. Hop, hop. And we all three of us scream, laugh. It was one of the funniest things that had ever happened.

[Valerie]

So cute. Check out these sweet moves in just the tiniest tops. Like, so tiny.

[Pete Holmes]

And he knew to walk away.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He knew to just take a break and laugh.

[Valerie]

You sort of are like, why is that even an option on the game? They should be something cool or nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, in what I'm stupid. I'm thinking if he had built up some speed, I bet it would have been a cool jump. But he was just standing still. So he did, like, the most limp biscuit. He did two limp biscuits.

[Valerie]

I loved it. Two unexpected, adorable Kumail stories.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And the other thing that Kumail and I have in common is that we can with our partners. Well, maybe he doesn't want me to say that. It's so funny to have a friend that got so famous.

[Valerie]

I know that you're like, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Not that that was anything that interesting. Trust.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's just there's cute mail in there. He's also very sweet. Was the point of that story is you and I are both. He and I are both very sweet in our relationships.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Little sweetie babies.

[Pete Holmes]

We're little sweetie babies.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's extra fun now that he's super muscly and you're like, but he's still the same guy. So it's like there's this very sweet guy. Who cares. What does this anyway? So this is a gossip podcast.

[Valerie]

Who cares?

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares? So what? So what? Well, I do want to get into. Yeah, it's hard to get into. But like, talk about what was so upsetting this week. But we could talk about. I think it'll be beneficial maybe to talk about it. I don't know.

[Valerie]

What do you think about.

[Pete Holmes]

No, my thing.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or we can talk about. You know what we'll do? We'll go to the mid Rolls and when we come back, we'll talk about being in Utah for this movie.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's fun. And being with Judy Greer again. Doing a movie. And doing a movie. No. And then maybe we'll talk about the family stuff. That was pretty interesting.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I do actually do want you to talk about that Hillary McBride quote that you read me and stuff.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So we won't dwell in the. In the dredge of it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But when you Told me that it was really, really helpful. It's. It's very. We made it weird. It's like talking about healing trauma doesn't mean you stop hurting. Yeah. And every single time, I'm like, why do I still get my feelings hurt?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And why am I still angry or sad? And then that conversation is always worth having. So we'll dip our toes into those sweet, sweet waters right after this. All right, folks, let's talk about gut health. Because if you're like me, you've had those moments. You eat a big meal, you're feeling good, then chap how you're bloated, sluggish, and wondering why your pants suddenly don't love you. I've been there and I've thought, okay, maybe I need a detox. Maybe I need to cut out everything fun. But then I found something that actually works. Peaks Pu Er tea. I always say it weird because I want you to remember. Pu Erh P U dash or apostrophe Er Pu Er tea. I'm not kidding when I tell you this stuff changes the game. I start my mornings with green pu Erh. I gotta tell you, it's like flipping a switch. I get this calm, focus, energy that doesn't come with all the caffeine jitters or that dreaded afternoon crash. And after meals, black pu air is my go to. It is smooth, earthy, and leaves me feeling light and balanced instead of like I just swallowed a brick or licked a car battery, you know, drinking too much caffeine. But here's the kicker. Pu Erh tea isn't just tea. It's fermented, which means it's loaded with living probiotics and prebiotics that actually support your gut health, which is an amazing thing for your entire body. It's like a reset button for your microbiome, and the science backs it up. The antioxidants from this tea help with digestion, energy metabolism, even radiant skin. And yes, this is tea that makes you glow. Who knew? Let's talk about quality, because not all tea is created equal. Peak Pu Erh tea is wild harvested, it's triple toxin screened, and dissolves instantly in hot or cold water, making it such an easy and pleasurable process to make instant gut healing magic fast and easy. Now, because you listen to this podcast, Peak is hooking you up with 20% off. For life. Yes, for life. Plus a free rechargeable frother and glass beaker when you grab their pu' er bundle. This is an exclusive offer just for weirdos and Peak backs it up with a 90 day money back guarantee. So you can try it risk free. Go to peaklife.com weird to grab yours. Now that's peaklife.com weird. Your gut and your energy will thank you. Okay, we're back.

[Valerie]

All right. Okay. We came back. I told you we would.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't have too much to say about the movie. Let's start with the. Let's start with that Hillary McBride quote. That was more interesting. What. What I was going to say was, I don't even know if we need the details.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. Look, I don't have my audio on and it's still doing that on Instagram. But I tried to go on Instagram to pull up that quote, to peel up that quote, peel up that quote.

[Pete Holmes]

All I'll say is, you know, it's a funny thing when you call your parents and you start getting into a place where you believe, like, it's no big deal. Like, I'll go, like, it's not a big deal. Just, just call him. Just call him all the time. You've heard me say that on this podcast. And then you forget that, like, and this is where the embarrassment comes in that you can be talking to these people that you love. And there are landmines. There are these things that are just gonna, like, really bother you for about three days.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I just got it. Distance plus desire equals delusion.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow, that's great.

[Valerie]

Like, I do this too.

[Pete Holmes]

Plus desire is delusion. I delude myself to being like, yeah, what's the big deal?

[Valerie]

Because we want them to be a certain way and it's been a while since we've talked to them. And then that it's. So we slip so easily into the delusion that. That it's going to feel good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just chatting with my folks and some, let's put it this way, something that had made me feel good about whatever turned out to not be true. And that was sort of said to me casually.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that was also kind of offensive where it's like, don't you realize that you're taking back something that I thought had happened? And you're. And, but you're not even going, like, I'm embarrassed. But like, when I told you that that was that. It wasn't that. But it was more just like, sorry that I lied. Yeah. There's none of that. It's just sort of like. And. And you're like. So you're left holding the bag. Yeah, that's how it feels. Is like, things are happening, but the only one processing or considering feels like you. And you're left with this. And then I'm like, again, for me, it comes out as anger. A very specific kind of anger. Like, you can smell it a mile away. I come home and I'm just kind of a bitch. I'm like a crispy bitch. And, like, not picking a fight. Certainly not with you or Leela, but I will be a little bit more. We've talked about this before. The first thing that goes out the window is, like, music or art, everything is stupid, everything sucks. And then tell the people this good quote from.

[Valerie]

Well.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, go ahead.

[Valerie]

So, yeah, your response to it. And this is everybody, you know, I think this isn't specific to you, but our. We've said this so many times on this podcast that it's not the just the feeling. It's the shame around having the feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So we so quickly have big feelings, and then we're like, what's wrong with me that I feel this way?

[Pete Holmes]

I immediately go, it's two prong. I've done all this psychological work, and I've done all of this spiritual work. Why am I so.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Upset.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Like, it's so on top of having the big feeling, you have to also feel like this is a failure of some sort because you feel that way, which is just such a strong pile on.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is Hillary McBride's new book.

[Valerie]

So Hillary McBride has a new book out that I haven't read yet, but we went to the book launch yesterday, and it's called Holy Hurt Tuesday. It's called Holy Hurt, and it's about religious trauma, which is just obviously, if you've listened to this podcast, you know that that is a very relevant thing in our. In our world. So. And if you. If you don't know Hillary McBride, definitely follow her on Instagram. She is an absolute treasure of a person who is, I think, sort of the voice of our generation. Anyway, so she has this quote from that book, and it is. We have defined healing as something going away. Instead, healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting, to turn toward where the injuries are, and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved and eventually to love them ourselves.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So just this idea that, like, if we're still feeling something, then we must not be doing it right, or we're not healing because the feeling should go away when really it's just changing our.

[Pete Holmes]

Relationship to it and noticing that you are as lawful and appropriate as everything else. So we've Talked on this podcast. I actually did this when I had this little upset where I was like, this is perfect. I picture my father, my mother, winning the Oscar at the end of reality and everyone giving them a standing ovation. I picture Barbara Walters interviewing them and being like, how did you know to be just so perfectly this. That. And they're just like, I just did what came natural. You know, like. And everyone's like, unbelievable. And then I'm also like, okay, that gives them permission to be how they are, which you and I are pretty good at. But then it's like, also give ourselves permission to be like, how did you know to be such a sensitive artist type? That was, like, sad and angry for, like, three days. Like, we went to a birthday party.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just. Luckily it was with our dear friends. And I was like, yeah, I'm depressed. I'm sad and angry, and I'm not really here. And, like, there was a new friend there. And I was like, I look forward to meeting you one day. I'm not here.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think it's that hurtful to say, like, should I say what the. What the thing was?

[Valerie]

Yeah, I absolutely think you should. I think it would help a lot of people.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm realizing that it could be helpful because I want you to tell the Kathy Bates thing, too, because that blew me away, and it won't really make sense unless I say it. So this isn't the spirit of being helpful. Right. So I did that movie, the Christmas movie. And. And by the way, I also want to show my cards here and just be like, what a privileged complaint. But your. Your stuff is your stuff, and these are the pieces I'm dealing with.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And necessary. But okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, sure. But when doing this movie, and I'm doing this, like, religious movie, and. And it's like a very sweet Christmas movie. And. And I noticed that my parents. Oh, God, it's so. Looked sad.

[Valerie]

It is sad.

[Pete Holmes]

I just noticed that my parents were, like, particularly proud of that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I. I even joked with Dallas, our great director. I was like, I've done something that they won't be embarrassed by.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It's for them.

[Pete Holmes]

It's for them. And. And your side of the family has really knocked it out of the park. Like, groups went together, went multiple times. My grandpa went, and they wanted a poster that signed. And, like, they were just so blown away. And then my mom saw it as well, and. And I was like, you know, it's embarrassing, but your child self is like, oh, it worked like Remember I talked about that upset I had with my folks where my mom was like, how can you love Buddha and Jesus? And I was like, I wrote a book about it. Like, I got really mad.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then you realize that I wrote.

[Pete Holmes]

The book for them.

[Valerie]

Like, I wrote to understand you.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, you know, when people have complicated things, they always say, I'll put it in a letter. Like, that way they can read it. Yeah, there it is. Exactly what I want to say. And that's how I felt about the book. I was like, here it is. Slowly and gently, this is me. This is me. And it didn't work. And I was devastated, heartbroken.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Similarly, I was like, okay, now I'm doing these things and I'm gonna make this movie. And it's. And it'll reach them somehow. Like, they'll be proud.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then my mom, I do think it was my mom said that my dad went and saw it in the theaters. I don't think he said it. I'm not sure about that. And that's not my child self. I'm saying I don't have a memory of my dad. I do recall.

[Valerie]

I think you talked to him about it.

[Pete Holmes]

I did talk to him.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

My mom was like, your dad went and saw it by himself. And I was like, what? I was like, oh, my God, so cool. Like, he didn't want to miss his son on the big screen. I was like, wow. And then I did see them and we talked about it, and I remember him being like, oh, those kids reminded me of these kids that I grew up with and all this stuff. By the way, I also called my aunt and had a great. This was like this weird movie that everyone in my family agreed with. And we talked about talking to my. My aunt and how she loved it and we were relate. And she understood it and was great. And it wasn't even about me being in. It was just like, we enjoyed this thing together that I was in. So it was this weird, like, bridge to all of these people in my family. And then my dad went and saw it. And then when I visited, we talked about it. And. And I do think it's hard, but I think there was, like, talk about. Like, we talked about it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, all of us talked about how good it was.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, oh, this is great. And then when I talked to them just a couple days ago, my dad was like, yeah, we were flipping the channels and your movie was on the Star Network Stars. And they watched it. And he was like, and I really. And he's going on and on about it. It.

[Valerie]

I really liked it.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, I really liked it. And I was like, oh, you mean like, even. Even more. I'm such a rube. I'm like, even more than when you saw it in the theaters.

[Valerie]

That's not a rube.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm going, I'm so confused and gaslit that I'm just sort of like, that's a normal response because I'm. I'm looking for the reality that I was told. And I goes, you mean like. Like, on reviewing it, yeah, you liked it even more. Appreciated it more. And I was like. Because I thought you saw it in the theaters. And he go. And he just goes, oh, if I'm being honest, no, I didn't. And I was like, so that. That was. And look, I do want to be clear and be like, it's hard to talk about this stuff. Just in that moment.

[Valerie]

So brave.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's like there's. There's the shift of your reality. And it's not just a reality. It's the reality of your child self. This thing that was like, precious like that. That you're even embarrassed that it was precious to you. Like some weird thing in your prison cell, and you have it wrapped in a hanky, and you take it out and look at it, and it's special. And then you wrap it back up and hide it under your bunk bed. And it's. And it's. It's. It's sort of like, it shouldn't mean that much to you, but it does. And then, of course it does. It's not just like, again. And, like, I want to orchestrate how these things happen, but it would be different if it was like, you know, I wanted to see it in the theater. And I'm sorry, like, if there was any sort of acknowledgement, but it was just sort of like, hey, I saw it. And I'm like, oh, and you liked it even more. No, I didn't see it before. And then the. The coup de gras. I don't know how that term goes, but he goes. And. And then he was like. And then I kind of saw where it was going. The kids put on the pageant, and I was like, so. Well, yeah. And I was like, finish it. You didn't finish it? He was like, no, I was tired. And so then even flipping through the channels, there's the movie.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is. The hurt is like, that your son is.

[Valerie]

Your son is in.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And you just happened on it.

[Valerie]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's not a long movie. This is all the pain, of course. And it was like, I got it. And then. But there's something uniquely upsetting just about how that was bro breached. So sort of carelessly.

[Valerie]

You don't have to explain a single thing about why that was upsetting. Every single, single person listening knows that. That of course was upsetting. Yeah, that's what I told you. I was like, you pull everyone in America.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's how you, all those people.

[Valerie]

Are going to agree. That's up.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, I, I, I'm worried.

[Valerie]

See, I, I know, but I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried, I'm worried that there are some people that would be like, that would do what I've been programmed to do my whole life, which is like the first thing I do is I go, there's like a ridiculing voice. It's like you thought your dad sat in a theater by himself. Did he get a popcorn and a soda and watched a movie. And I start.

[Valerie]

The easiest thing a person can do. He actually literally has to do nothing except for driving.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but the voice goes, you're, you're a fool. Like, that's ridiculous. That's just not, that's just not something that would happen. And then I start laughing. I'm like, that's true. That's, that's ridiculous. That's too much. But that's like a protector too.

[Valerie]

No, that is, yes. And that is the child self who will always make themselves wrong before they believe that their child is wrong or they're sorry their parents are wrong because it's so dangerous for the parents to be wrong that a child will a hundred percent go, well, it must have been my mistake. I'm silly for thinking my daddy would go to my game or to show.

[Pete Holmes]

It's, it's, it's exactly what you would see in a movie and you'd be screaming at the screen that I'm, I'm like, well, that's on me for thinking you might have done that.

[Valerie]

Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

When you said that you did and then had follow up conversations with me and when I guess based on the preview, it's like the Cliff Notes.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you know what the next voice is? Who cares? It's a movie. Nobody needs to see it. Like you, you get like the kid that's, that's sweet and tender and broken inside. But all they do is work on their motorcycle and at the junkyard and they have a tattoo and they're just like, who cares? Nobody cares. It's fine. But like, deep down, that that's how I feel. I'm like, yeah, he doesn't have to see it. It's fine. It's fine. That's not. That's not the kind of family we are. Yeah, go like.

[Valerie]

And we can love that protector too, because it's incredibly painful and the protector is, is lovingly trying to spare you of that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But the thing is, is that there's no amount of doing that that's not. That's going to like, not make your body feel incredibly wounded about that. Because that's the truth is that it is wounding that you know, you have turned your wounds into this very amazing superpower where because you need to be seen and understood by your parents, you do a podcast and do stand up and write books and are in movies, all these ways of self expression to be seen. And we all benefit from that because it makes us also feel seen because we're similar. And the way that you're so bravely sharing this thing that you're actively going through, which is the bravest thing a person can do, is I guarantee, is making people feel very seen currently. But the original wound is that you want these two people to see you. So when they literally don't go see.

[Pete Holmes]

You, oh, my God.

[Valerie]

Of course that's is incredibly painful. Just. Of course it is. You don't need to be embarrassed about that. Like, there's no, there's nothing wrong with being upset about that. That's a, that's an appropriate thing to be upset about.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't. Yeah. Even as you're saying that, though, I'm like, I'm a grown man. I shouldn't need anyone to go to my little league games.

[Valerie]

But that's the thing. I. I understand that and I think you can reframe that to be like, of course that's upsetting. And I can remind myself that I've made it out of there. I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

And my safety anymore.

[Valerie]

But yes, my safety doesn't depend on these people seeing me. I have, you know, like hundreds of thousands of other people see me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I appreciate, if I'm being honest. What comes up in a moment like that is incredible unsafety is like incredible threat.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It feels like death. Like you're gonna die.

[Pete Holmes]

So when we, yeah, when we talk about that, that's very real. It's like in that moment, in the same conversation, my dad referenced our daughter being a certain age and it was the wrong age.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't even register that because if you shot it in a movie, it would have been that high pitched, like. And I'm just like, not worse there. And then the rest of the day. And this I am. All of this is to be helpful, but the rest of the day I'm so angry and scared. And my therapist has helped me realize that. It's like this part of us would rather attack anyone than let the child be attacked anymore.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So it'll make other people see. Stupid. Art is stupid. Movies is stupid. Everything's stupid. Everything sucks. And it's just someone going like, this is the flawed armor that we have. But it'll work. It'll keep everyone.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The fuck away from you. Because in that moment, you, you feel under threat.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like, I'm under threat. And then I did spend the rest of the day, and this is why I go, like, why can't this shit work instantly? Because I, I pulled into our house and I'm going like, look at your house is a home filled with love and your daughter and your wife and, and, and everything's okay. And you're literally seeing your life.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you're like, but you're not. You're in your child self and all you're seeing is like, it didn't work. Yeah, this, like, sweet little plea didn't work.

[Valerie]

Right. Yes. I know this place. And I, I, my version of it will. If I'm really in the dark hole, I'll go, oh, no. I have this beautiful life and it won't matter. I won't be able to enjoy it because I'm haunted by the past.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But that's not true. That's, that's just the momentary coloring of the glasses that you're wearing. And, and that's when it's like, that's exactly when my therapist would go, let's not get caught up in the content. Just can just like continue to go back to the felt experience. And when I was sort of not to turn this on to me, but like, when I was going through my sort of family stuff and very, very activated, I do feel proud that I remembered I was. I'm not always able to, and I might not be able to today, you know, but I did remember, like, oh, right. I need to meet this with softness and like, get my body in a bathtub and just sort of let the tightness in my, like, stomach exist and, and let that just be a tightness in my stomach and not think about how I should feel. And what I should do. And I started to, of course, like, get into the spinning of that and then was like, actually, what a relief that I don't have to figure any of that out. And that all that's existing is a tightness in my stomach. And. And like, I. I like, did the sobbing where you, like, it really is just like shaking. Like, you look like Shakira just, like shake. Chest shaking, sobbing. And that felt amazing. But then, like. And because I let that happen and I didn't get. Every time I got caught up in the story, I just, like, brought it back to the feeling there. There was this, like, space around it where I was like, right. Like, I feel awful and there's no problem.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I can. It didn't. It didn't go make anything go away. The rest of that day and the whole rest of the next day, I felt, like, irritable and angry and very close to tears and was very much in my feelings, but it was like, yeah, of course I am. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to the Oscar idea. So, like, enlightenment or being self realized or whatever doesn't mean you're happy all the time. Or it doesn't mean that the character like Pete or who or Valerie is happy all the time. It's like no matter what is happening, you recognize that it emerges from and recedes into the same crisp knowing the same being.

[Valerie]

And that you can be. That's what this Hillary McBride quote is. Is that you can turn towards it and be with it and that. And people just think that. Like, I know because I used to think this and still sometimes can. That you're just sort of like white knuckling sit. Like being, like, tortured and sitting with it like that. That's what sitting with it is. But it's so much softer in that way that, like, I think we all know. I think we can all see how, like, some, like, real sadness is, like, beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Well, that's. The tantric approach is going into it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And recognizing that. Exactly what you just said. That, like, what you're. What I'm calling a depression or a fear or a sadness. Anger cocktail in this moment is actually just this one thing. And when we go. When we zoom into it, we see that it's made out of love. You could say it's made out of, like, life. It's made out of being. It's. And it's pretty okay. And it's not just pretty okay. It is okay.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It's. It's all of it. It's that's what I also kept feeling when I was in the tub. And. And, like, really did just sort of feel like my. From my, like, belly button to my collarbone was just sort of, like, pulsing. And then I was like, yeah, this is so soft and open. When you're somebody who's been dissociated and sleepwalking through life for a large portion of your life, it actually isn't amazing. You're like, that actually is what feels the worst. To be, like, numb to life feels way worse than any pain I've experienced, any emotional pain. So even when I'm sad, I'm like, oh, look at how soft and open and really alive I am. Like, really, really awake.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Again, that's the flawless thing. It's like, how did you know to feel confused and angry and sad and so many things? And I'm like, holy shit. This is like, a truly incredible mosaic. And then giving myself the permission to, like, feel it, and that's what I did with my friends. I was like, I'm not in the mood.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

To riff. I'm. I'm just feeling it. And then the other thing. And we've talked about this on the podcast before, but I've noticed that, like, this brokenness, which is what we're really talking about, brokenness sounds judgmental. This. This tenderness really makes you need people. So we went to Hillary's book party. We listened to Michael Gunger play incredible music and Lisa Gunger and Will and everybody. And, like, I was deeply moved by all of it, because I was so. Richard Rohr has something like that where he's, like, thinking you can do everything yourself is, like, the opposite of what this is. It's like, it's all about interconnected interconnectivity and surrender and brokenness. And it's probably in Breathing Underwater, he's talking about AA and how, like, the entryway into relationship and truth and growth and all of these good things is brokenness.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I do resist it. And yet I'm like. Like I always say, a good episode. Oh, you found out Daddy. We'll say Daddy specifically. Daddy didn't watch movie two times, actually.

[Valerie]

Right. That's right. Yep. Right. Good episode.

[Pete Holmes]

That's.

[Valerie]

It's a Rich life.

[Pete Holmes]

And then watch that fertilizing the soil to a place where the music that specifically Michael played went right into the cracks. Went right into it made me penetrable, and it also made us laugh. And it made me want to be with my friends. And it's Leonard Cohen. The cracks are what Makes the light get through. And I'm like, but. And I would add to that. Yet don't be surprised when every single time you're cracking, you resist it with every single ounce.

[Valerie]

That's right. And that even like there's a mistake that I can make where I'm like the, the light, like all these things that we're talking about, that's just like a consolation prize that we have to like because we have to suffer. So we're trying to sort of make a force, a silver lining, and that's not it. And it doesn't feel that way actually when you're experiencing it. It's like, no, this is all part of it. It actually is part. The, the suffering is the beauty. It's not like there's suffering and then you'll try to see the beauty, you know, next to the suffering. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It is, it would be like, it's a. Not a perfect metaphor, but. Well, actually I'll use Rupert and Ramana Maharshi. Like the screen is beauty and on the screen we're watching a movie about let down feelings, but the screen is, is beautiful and light and everything is made out of the same thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is complete and beautiful and timeless and present now and.

[Valerie]

Ah. How does it feel that you were so brave today?

[Pete Holmes]

How does it feel to be so brave? How does it feel how to be so brave today?

[Valerie]

Honestly, I, I mean, do you have a vulnerability hangover?

[Pete Holmes]

No. No, I, I feel like I, I have therapy tomorrow and I know I'll be doing a lot of crying there and that'll feel really nice. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not super rocked by this. It always feels good to kind of talk about it and share it and.

[Valerie]

Well, I hope you don't mind, but I do have this idea that, you know, when, when I was really feeling low about Leela's tantrums, remember I was like, this might be a good use. Like if you. To our beautiful listeners, if you feel called to, if this was moving to you and you feel called to write in about that, that is, that will be very useful. And I did that with Leela when I was afraid of Leila's tantrums. And I got some lovely letters of people saying I was like that or my daughter was like that. And now we're incredibly close and it meant so much to me. So if you've been through something like what Pete just shared or if it was moving to you in any way, you can DM me even. And I Will pass it along. Because this is what we're here for is like, the solidarity of, like, this is really hard. And you were just vulnerable. And every time, the more vulnerable and authentic you are, the more beneficial it is to the whole. So.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. That's why. Yeah. It wasn't just. I. I didn't even want to do it. It wasn't just fodder.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, this will feel. It didn't feel. That's, you know, to close on something I love about myself is like. It's. It's sort of intolerable for me to be, like, kind of alluding to something.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I love this.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I go, like. I just say the thing, the half measure. Shit, I can't do it. Would you remember to say what you're going to say? But don't forget the Kathy Bates story.

[Valerie]

That's what I was going to say.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, great. Because that'll be like.

[Valerie]

And it's so funny because we're telepathy, tape merging. Where I. I was going to say before you. When you were just alluding to it, I was thinking, like, you should say the details because, like, how helpful was the Kathy Bates thing? Because we knew the details. Yeah, that's right. And then you brought up the Kathy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, so. No, that's right.

[Valerie]

There's a interview that's going around my algorithm, because my algorithm knows I love Kathy Bates, I guess, And I'm. If you've seen it, I might get the details wrong, but it's an interview where they. She talks about how her. Because I think she wrote about it in her book how when she gave the acceptance or when she won the Oscar for Misery, her mom had some sort of flippant response.

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares?

[Valerie]

Like a who cares response.

[Pete Holmes]

Big deal.

[Valerie]

And Cath, in the interview, Kathy goes, yeah, she was upset that I forgot to thank her. And then they play the tape back and she does thank her mom, and she gives her mom, like, a significant sort of thank you. And they play that back for her. And it's just so heartbreaking and beautiful and stunning to see her see that. And she's like. She just goes, like, I thanked her. I thanked her. Like, after all this time, she believed this story of her mom being slighted and that. And she was carrying the guilt of not being a good daughter in her mom's eyes, and she was a good daughter.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Valerie]

And that's sort of what we're all doing is like, as we're healing this, we. We are taking the burdens that we took on as Children in order to make our parents right. And we're looking at reality and we're.

[Pete Holmes]

Going, wait, I did thank them.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I did thank them. I was good. It was never about me. It wasn't me. I don't have to carry that. That wasn't my fault.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So it was really powerful and beautiful, and you just did that for people. I'm. I'm certain of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Building a story. That's me going like, well, it's too much. It's too much to ask for someone to go to the movie.

[Valerie]

Exactly. Right. Exactly. Oh, how darling it is.

[Pete Holmes]

Darling. I know it's me, but I'm like, that's really adorable.

[Valerie]

Of course. Course. Absolutely. It's almost as adorable as Kumail and the 40 winks. Counting 40 winks.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a pretty good nap.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well.

[Valerie]

Well, there you go. I mean, we. We did it. We went. We went there.

[Pete Holmes]

We did it.

[Valerie]

We went there.

[Pete Holmes]

We did it. And now we're gonna. Yeah, and now we're gonna record the high energy intro. Now that I'm all. I don't feel deflated. I feel succulent.

[Valerie]

Succulent.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Valerie]

Supple.

[Pete Holmes]

Supple, Yeah. I also felt like. I feel a sort of like marinated, like, at capacity. Succulent.

[Valerie]

Is that. I know what you're trying to say, but also, a succulent is a cactus, and maybe those are two words.

[Pete Holmes]

Succulent also means like a dish can be succulent.

[Valerie]

Oh, right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's such a stupid word, I think. But anyway. Yeah. So when you listen to the high energy intro, which you already did, know that it was right after all of this tenderness. But thank you, Valerie, and. And thank you, everybody. I hope it is helpful and. And, you know, the heal, let the healing begin.

[Valerie]

That's right. And thank you for showing us what real courage looks like.

[Pete Holmes]

You guys can't see this, but I'm sitting on a severed dragon head.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And that's what I meant. Not that. Not that sentimental.

[Pete Holmes]

You just spouted that I am a witcher. All right, Val, go ahead.

[Valerie]

All right, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And go ahead.

[Valerie]

Keep it crispy.