We Made It Weird #214

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Episode #214

Release Date: April 18, 2025

In the 214th episode of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes," host Pete Holmes and co-host Valerie delve deep into personal reflections, emotional healing, and the complexities of family relationships. Moving beyond their typical comedic banter, this episode offers a profound exploration of vulnerability, trauma, and the journey toward self-acceptance.

1. Setting the Tone: A Shift Towards Depth ([05:17] - [07:00])

The episode begins with Pete and Valerie acknowledging that this installment is "extra special" and demands more courage than their usual light-hearted discussions. Valerie remarks, "It's sort of like an extra special episode." Pete concurs, emphasizing the rarity of their candid conversations about heavy topics in real-time.

2. Navigating Intellectual Interests and Emotional Responses ([07:00] - [23:00])

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Pete's introspection triggered by listening to Malcolm Gladwell's "Revisionist History" podcast. Pete shares his frustration: "If you're not interested in this, you're not intelligent. You're not like..." This sentiment opens up a dialogue about the pressures of intellectual conformity and the emotional turmoil it can cause.

Valerie adds her perspective, expressing disdain for the expectation to find every topic fascinating: "I'm smart and I fucking don't give a shit about any of this." Together, they critique the sometimes pretentious nature of intellectual discourse and its impact on personal well-being.

3. Personal Anecdotes: Kumail's Adorable Mishaps ([23:00] - [31:00])

Shifting gears, Pete and Valerie reminisce about their friend Kumail's endearing attempts at playing video games. Pete narrates, "He pushes the jump button because the guy isn't moving. It looks like a guy struggling with the equipment." These lighthearted stories serve as a contrast to the episode's deeper themes, highlighting the importance of friendship and shared humor in navigating life's challenges.

4. Confronting Family Dynamics and Personal Healing ([31:00] - [45:00])

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Pete discusses his experiences with familial relationships, particularly focusing on his movie project and its reception by his parents. He reveals a moment of vulnerability: "When you told me that it was really, really helpful. It's very, We Made It Weird. It's like talking about healing trauma doesn't mean you stop hurting."

Valerie further elaborates on this theme, emphasizing the shame often associated with experiencing and expressing deep emotions. She shares, "There's the shame around having the feeling." Together, they explore the concept that healing is not about the elimination of pain but about learning to live with and understand it.

5. Insights from Hillary McBride's "Holy Hurt" ([38:00] - [47:00])

Valerie introduces a profound quote from Hillary McBride's new book, Holy Hurt, which states: "Healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting, to turn toward where the injuries are, and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved, and eventually to love them ourselves." This serves as a cornerstone for their discussion on religious trauma and the broader implications of healing emotional wounds.

Pete reflects on his own journey, sharing how recreation and creative endeavors like his movie have been avenues for connecting with his family despite underlying tensions. He admits, "I was devastated. Heartbroken." However, through open dialogue and shared experiences, he finds a pathway to mutual understanding and acceptance.

6. Embracing Vulnerability and Community Support ([47:00] - [60:00])

The hosts emphasize the importance of vulnerability in fostering genuine connections. Valerie encourages listeners to share their own experiences of healing, highlighting the strength found in communal support: "This is what we're here for is like the solidarity of like, this is really Hard."

Pete adds, "Brokenness sounds judgmental. This tenderness really makes you need people." They advocate for embracing one's brokenness as a step toward authentic living, underscoring that true healing stems from acknowledging and sharing one's pain.

7. Closing Reflections: Strength in Authenticity ([60:00] - End)

As the episode concludes, Pete and Valerie reflect on the courage it takes to be open about personal struggles. Pete quips humorously, "You guys can't see this, but I'm sitting on a severed dragon head," bringing the conversation back to their signature blend of humor and depth.

Valerie reinforces the episode's main message, stating, "This was really powerful and beautiful," reminding listeners that embracing one's vulnerabilities not only aids personal healing but also strengthens communal bonds.

Notable Quotes:

• Valerie ([00:15]): "What's happening, weirdos?"

• Pete Holmes ([05:22]): "Welcome to We Made It Weird, where we get really wacky and wild here in Weirdville."

• Hillary McBride Quote ([38:46]): "Healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting, to turn toward where the injuries are, and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved, and eventually to love them ourselves."

• Pete Holmes ([51:17]): "Distance plus desire equals delusion."

Conclusion

Episode #214 of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes" stands out as a heartfelt journey into the intricacies of personal and familial healing. Through candid conversations, shared vulnerabilities, and insightful reflections, Pete and Valerie offer listeners a roadmap to understanding and embracing their own emotional landscapes. This episode not only entertains but also provides solace and solidarity for those navigating similar paths of healing and self-discovery.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah. You made it with. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? The second half of this podcast is so heavy that we mentioned that. Oh, now we have to do the intro and this is that intro.

[Valerie]

This is that intro. It gets. It gets really special. It's. It's sort of like an extra special episode.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I agree. Because not. We don't normally deal with these things, like, so fresh in real. In real, real time.

[Valerie]

And because it takes extra courage to do that.

[Pete Holmes]

So classic. We made it weird. If you guys haven't listened to this, these are the bonus episodes where me and Val catch up and in. In the classic way. First half of the episode, lot of riffing. Silly Billy, silly Billies, silly. Second half, a little more of a deep dive into internal family systems and therapy and really, I think, important conversations.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So we're glad you're here. My tour dates are on peteholmes.com I'm coming to Austin if you. Oh, no, this. If you hear this the day it comes out tomorrow, I'm in Austin, so I hope you can come to the show. Petehomes.com and we just added a second show in Boston. That's all I'll say. All my tour dates are on peteholmes.com and this show is brought to you by sponsors that we actually use and actually love. So please, if you like this show, it's a great, direct way to support it. Try one of these wonderful things. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Apollo Neuro. That's what this is. You probably see me wearing this little piece of wearable technology in every episode of this podcast because I never take my Apollo off. That's not entire true. My daughter recently took my Apollo off and she lost it. And I didn't have it for three days. And I couldn't believe what a difference I noticed in my life. My sleep took a nosedive. I was waking up in the night. My anxiety, my calmness, my overall sense of well being. It's true. Apollo sends sub perceptual meaning. You can have it on a very low setting, which is what I do. Vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your body in its own language, in a language that it can understand. That makes it feel safe, held and in control. And what I mean when I say it's true, it's true that it works. This is not Woo woo. This is made by a board certified psychiatrist and a I want to get this right. A neuroscientist. Got to get the right kind of science in there. Apollo Neuro is a wearable that helps your body recover from stress by sending those vibrations into your nervous system. Helping you sleep, focus, relax and be more productive. It's worn on the wrist like me or the ankle like Val. Apollo Neuro is like finding the fuse box for your body with the emotions, with settings like energy and wake up, social and open, clear and focused joy, rebuild and recover, Calm, unwind and fall asleep. As I mentioned, I turn it on to fall asleep, but then it automatically reruns the program while I'm asleep to keep me asleep. It's a chemical free sleep aid. It is incredible. It is a game changer. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery has been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get $40 [e-mail] weird and use promo code weird that's a L L O N E R O dot com weird. Use promo code weird for $40 off. Also, this show is sponsored by Better Help. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100, the copy says to 250. Ha ha. Try 350 in L A. What are you nuts? Goes way up beyond that and that adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you play, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and time. Therapy. We're big believers in therapy on the show. Obviously it should feel accessible, not like a luxury luxury. And with online therapy, you can get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety, boundaries, relationships and everyday stress. Believe me, your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. Therapy is the greater than the sum of its parts. It has helped me so dramatically set up healthy boundaries with my family, get out of toxic relationships, friendships, work situations. It is a game changer. So give yourself the gift of therapy. It couldn't be easier with BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient. You can join a session with the click of the of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus you can switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com weirdo. Today to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com weirdo. All right, everybody, we're glad you're here.

[Valerie]

Valerie, go ahead and get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Boom shakalaka. Welcome to. What are we. What?

[Valerie]

Let me start the way that you've been starting.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, please, go ahead.

[Valerie]

Actually, you did mix it up a little.

[Pete Holmes]

No, go ahead. No, no, no, no. Lately, the guy who's interrupting but telling you to go ahead. No, go ahead. Go, go.

[Valerie]

But anyway.

[Pete Holmes]

So go ahead.

[Valerie]

Yeah, no, but anyway, you do it.

[Pete Holmes]

You do what you're gonna do. It's fine. I'm humble. Like Kendrick Lamar said, I'm humble. I love his ditty about sit down and just humble. Let's get ready to humble.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Just a little steam shooting off the espresso machine before we make the latte.

[Valerie]

You just keep going. I'm gonna change the lighting.

[Pete Holmes]

No, go ahead.

[Valerie]

I usually do in the beginning.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, well, Kendra, I will say I'm 46, and one of the things I've noticed, like, on the day I started calling, like, things like what my mom would say, like, I'm like, who's that actor? Arthur Pickle Bottom. Someone's like Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I'm like, right. Like it overnight.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

45, 46. Big diff. I'm feeling it.

[Valerie]

You know, I'm a.

[Pete Holmes]

A chowder.

[Valerie]

I realized, like, yeah, I think we are. So. Okay, this is what.

[Pete Holmes]

Go ahead. Do it. You do you.

[Valerie]

I realized that I didn't have a calendar or a planner or any sort of schedule for, I think, almost all of my 20s. And by schedule, I mean I had things and places that I had to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things that I had to do and places that I had to be that I just didn't write it down. I just remembered it.

[Pete Holmes]

Val, you know, I really. I'm just so taken with you. And this is such a. We made it weird topic. I didn't even know we made it weird. Topics have such a flavor.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is a perfect one. In the 90s, even into the early 2000s, if you had a day planner.

[Valerie]

Yeah. You're like, nerd.

[Pete Holmes]

Nerd. One, two. I'm gonna say something even bolder. You were a lawyer, or if you were a regular person, you were a regular person pretending to be a lawyer. And most of the things you wrote in your day planner were after the fact.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you had lunch with Dave and then you went in or like, lunch with Dave to Justify having it.

[Valerie]

I had a job and was a master's student. Brag and brag anytime. Any chance I can get. What was my thesis on? You say? I don't remember.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Valerie]

So, yeah, it stuck, Valerie Ann. But I did. I'm pretty sure I did that entire program without writing anything that I had. I just, like, had my class schedule.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. This is why I remember being kind of vaguely tense. I didn't know what was happening or when it was happening. But see, I think what day it.

[Valerie]

Was, we remembered it. And then what's happening now is obviously our brains are decaying for sure, But I think, especially after you become a parent, but probably just normal, regular adult life. You're holding so much in your brain that you can't remember the names of actors and you can't remember, I'm busted. Like your own kids, friends, names. And all of a sudden I can.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember, you know, what it is. And I don't know what it was for my mom because she, in my mind, famously called Celine Dion Salon Dijon, which was one of the great gifts of my life. When she said it, I was like, you know, I needed a new bit.

[Valerie]

I kneaded a knee bit.

[Pete Holmes]

I knew. Did a knee bit.

[Valerie]

You know, I kneaded that.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, I knew to need bit. I need a nude bit. That's when you put your dangle in the dough.

[Valerie]

And I think we should check. Yeah. Three minutes in. Always a dick joke or diarrhea.

[Pete Holmes]

Hold on. Pause. All right, guys. That whole intro was AI generated. Can you believe it? We're living in a new world where you can do pranks like that and be like. That was all AI we said create the. And it was like. Remember that scheduling thing? That was pretty close.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Pretty close to something. We would riff on that.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And if any. Yeah, if we hit any ls, we.

[Pete Holmes]

Can just blame it on the AI.

[Valerie]

See, it's not as good as we are.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's how I was going to start this episode. I was going to say, but how are you going to do it?

[Valerie]

Oh, welcome to We Made It Weird, where we get really wacky and wild here in Weirdville. Like, you've been doing that radio.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is what I was going to do this time. I was going to say, welcome to what are we thinking? What are we watching? And what are we feeling?

[Valerie]

Yes. That has been how you started it.

[Pete Holmes]

A podcast where we are powerless to change or decipher our lives in any meaningful way.

[Valerie]

Yes, that's it.

[Pete Holmes]

But we will meet once a week to audio dump it on you in the hopes that somehow the collective unconscious holding the burden of our lives will somehow soften it, but so far, it's not working. Yeah, I also want you to take down I love Malcolm Gladwell very, very much so not take down Malcolm Gladwell, because I really. But we had a really funny moment yesterday. You know, I was gonna say, your mom is visiting. That's not really important. But, like, yeah, so we got away.

[Valerie]

We got away. We got away.

[Pete Holmes]

It's fun to get away. And, yeah, we were driving into LA and. And I realized it was such a specifically man guy moment that I was like, let's listen to Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell's podcast. And I put it on, and he's talking about US News and World Report and how they rank the colleges. And I'm so interested.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And you were so uninterested that I was like, this is good. Like, Malcolm Gladwell himself would be like, what? Is that why when a man puts on my podcast, I had my marching orders.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

I decided to figure out welcome to Revisionist History, where I get excited about things Val can't even pretend to be excited about.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. And just, like, makes me angry because you said. Said something not in, like. I wish I could remember what it was because it wasn't in a. It really wasn't in, like, a condescending way. But it's sort of. It sort of is this thing where I feel like if you're an intellectual, then you will love listening to Malcolm Gladwell and how they rank colleges and, you know, whatever. And. And so that. That makes me mad is because I'm like, I'm smart and I fucking don't give a shit about any of this.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm. You said it even better than I could have hoped you would say it, because it's a little bit like you flicked the lights on when I was painting my face with Philadelphia cream cheese in the bathroom and you caught me doing this weird thing I like to do, which is getting validated by listening to a podcast that is intellectual but not so intellectual that it makes me feel dumb.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But quite the opposite. It's just skating on the edge of things. Like, every once in a while, they'll say something I don't know, understand, and I like that, but I stay with it. So I guess this is a very long winded way of saying it's stimulating to me, but really so much of it has to do with me proving to myself. Like, I can listen to this.

[Valerie]

I can care about things.

[Pete Holmes]

I care about this.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then I get like a. The opposite response where I'm like, look, I can't make myself care about this. But, like, that doesn't mean that I don't want to learn about the things that I am interested in. I just don't want to learn about literally anything and everything, which is what.

[Pete Holmes]

Malcolm Gladwell, who is a seven enthusiast's enthusiast.

[Valerie]

And I'm really happy.

[Pete Holmes]

Say the thing you said. I was like, say the thing you said. I kept going, if you want. If you bore her, you will adore her. I went on a. Val was killing it. We've seen Salty Pete. Salty Pete will turn on a child at a birthday party. Valerie finally. Salty Valerie finally showed up. And I loved it.

[Valerie]

Well, I didn't tell you this. What I was thinking, like, this podcast is where Malcolm Gladwell sort of dissects things that people are. Are against. Isn't that the. Like, what's revision?

[Pete Holmes]

Commonly misunderstood or something.

[Valerie]

Commonly misunderstood. And I was like, I think he should do this on himself. Like, people are.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't even say that. We're. Now we're at a New York party, has a glass of red wine, and he's like, that's actually a brilliant idea.

[Valerie]

I know he would.

[Pete Holmes]

And then he's like. So I decided a new subject. Malcolm Gladwell, me, by the way, this.

[Valerie]

Is my feeling is like. It's like how you're like, I'm cool with Jesus. It's followers that I don't like. That's how I feel about Malcolm Gladwell. I have no beef against Malcolm Gladwell, but I was going like, it's positively Gladwellian. I was like, we can't trust this guy's excitement because he would be excited about dog hair in a shoebox under a bed. And you're like, we took it under a microscope and did the mathematics of this dog hair. And what we found was quite alarming. And we're like, is it. Is it or is it just the least interesting thing in the world? And not everything in life can be interesting. Otherwise, nothing is interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I really. I love everything you're saying, and I love Malcolm Gladwell. And there is something going on, like, when you're. And we're both kind of going through it. We've both been, like, depressed this week and upset me. Depressed is simultaneously and in equal measure positively gled. William. Sadness and anger.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then when you're sad, angry, stressed, clenched, and you listen to someone Talking about US News and World Report and how they rank the colleges, there is a real, like, must be nice.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's how it works.

[Pete Holmes]

Must be nice. You're going around going, but what about the cafeterias? Do the cafeterias come into play?

[Valerie]

You have so much room in your.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what it is. It's jealousy. It's jealousy in your being that you.

[Valerie]

Can, like, explore this very niche. Niche. I was. I. You know what? I struggled there because. I want to say niche, but I feel like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because, well, Frederick. Nishi.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nishi believed that Esotero was dead nice. I know. That's exactly what we're talking about. It is very New Yorker cartoon, like. Like, those are the laughs. And that's why when he. When he went and we agreed, and Malcolm Gladwell did this podcast, and I think he's a delight. I think he's changed my life for the better. I love him. And when you're listening to a podcast and you're stressed and angry about your family. Both of us.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he goes like, all right, what is the algorithm? I had my marching orders. And he says it like it's delicious. He loves it. When he said specifically, I had my marching orders, I was like, you need to march off a cliff, bro. I can't. Yeah, that's how I felt.

[Valerie]

It sort of is like, you know, that part of. I think It's. This is 40 or. No, it's knocked up, where Paul Rudd is watching his daughters play with bubbles, and he's like, I wish I felt.

[Pete Holmes]

It's jealousy.

[Valerie]

I wish I felt that way about anything.

[Pete Holmes]

And when I'm lit up and alive, Malcolm Gladwell is the sound of me being lit up and alive. Also, we noticed that he sounds like Mulaney and he sounds like Birbiglia, both of which are New York intellectuals.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And when I talk. I talked to Birbiglia. I think the.

[Valerie]

Ls hard. I don't know about Birbiglia, actually, but.

[Pete Holmes]

I know Bird for sure.

[Valerie]

Melania.

[Pete Holmes]

Melania is definitely going like, so how do they come up with the news? And I can't do it. But it's very.

[Valerie]

And it's delicious.

[Pete Holmes]

I had my marching orders. I had my marching orders. I can't do it.

[Valerie]

I know. I can't do it either.

[Pete Holmes]

That's okay.

[Valerie]

But it really did hit this very New York. It is.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not coded. That's usually code for Jewish, by the way. I just want to call that out. Yeah, we're not doing that. We're saying, it's very New York in this other way. By the way, here's the other thing I'll say about Malcolm Gladwell. Nothing would feel better when I listened to it. This is the other embarrassing thing. I imagine him analyzing me. Cause he always is like, Debra Messing was the copy editor at the New Yorker.

[Valerie]

Debra Messing.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that somebody.

[Valerie]

That's Grace from Will and Grace.

[Pete Holmes]

C46. That wasn't on purpose. I even said Debra Messing and was like, good job. You thought of like a nothing name. And it's like a fucking famous. It's Grace from Will and Grace.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, God, let's do another one. Danny DeVito was the copy editor, but he's like. She gracefully underlines each mistake with a sharp number two pencil. And you're like. Like you want. He's like, at his best is like the stark spotlight of awareness.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He sees, allows, and appreciates everything.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like there's something divine about it.

[Valerie]

I agree.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not even going back. Cause I was like, you gotta march off a cliff. I'm saying when you're angry, sad and afraid, someone going like, what happened to wooden matchsticks? You go like, shut the fuck up.

[Valerie]

You shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't. You. Because it's like talking to someone who's in love. And you're in a bad marriage.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And your fucking wife has got a cigarette with a long ash. And she's doing runny eggs in a fucking skillet.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like, my wife made me a breakfast buffet. That way I could decide the portions of cantaloupe. Why is cantaloupe shut the fuck up?

[Valerie]

Yeah, that is exactly right. You're just like, I. Life is. I remember I used to feel this way when, like, my ex husband used to love to watch how. How things are made. Or how.

[Pete Holmes]

How I met your mother.

[Valerie]

No, no.

[Pete Holmes]

How love is made.

[Valerie]

No, there's like a show. That's just the McFeely videotape portion of Mr. McFly.

[Pete Holmes]

That's Mr. McFeely to you.

[Valerie]

Oh, so sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Just call him McFeely. It's Mr. McFeely.

[Valerie]

Mr. McFeely. Obviously.

[Pete Holmes]

Mistoffeles. It's Mr. Mistoes.

[Valerie]

And I would never call him mistoffelees.

[Pete Holmes]

There's gotta be a joke there where it's like, please call me blah, blah, Mr. Mistoffeles is my cat.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

If your name was Dan Mistoffeles and someone said, Excuse me, Mr. Mistoffeles, please call me Dan. Mr. Mestopolis is a famous musical cat. I want my name to be Mistopheles just for that.

[Valerie]

So bad. And that would be Greek.

[Pete Holmes]

We think Mistoffeles.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Distinctly misophilics. Mistoffeles.

[Valerie]

Distinctly Mistoffeles. Just as Mistoffeles proved in his. Oh, I can't.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's in that area also Gladwellian, where he's like. And this exploration of the crisis in Haiti brought us to an unexpected place. And then magical, mysterious cats.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And when I was in a bad mood listening to it, he'd be like, this journey takes us everywhere.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

To Portland, Oregon. And I'm like, did it take us there, or did you just talk to someone in Portland?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He said, are we on a hobbit's journey, or did you zoom with someone in Portland?

[Valerie]

I love. Bumped against that at the same time, because he was like, it'll take us to unexpected places like Portland, Oregon. And you're like, okay. The most boring, benign. I love Portland. But there's nothing thrilling about Portland.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. It's not like Bali.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's gonna take weird places.

[Valerie]

Oh, somewhere intellectual took you to the Pacific Northwest. What?

[Pete Holmes]

To talk to students who had been looking at Look.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then when I'm lit up, I'm not gonna. I'm gonna stop apologizing. Malcolm Gladwell. Everything I know about him would be tickled pink listening to this conversation.

[Valerie]

Sure. And that's why I. That's what I mean is I have nothing against him. I think he's darling and he's a light in this world.

[Pete Holmes]

Change my life.

[Valerie]

But where I bump against is like, it is this defense of, like, if you're not interested in this. And you know what the feeling is?

[Pete Holmes]

What? What? Finish that. If you're not interested in this.

[Valerie]

If you're not interested in this, you're not intelligent. You're not like, you know, like.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. It's like when people are having fun at a wedding and they do the chicken dance and you don't want to do the chicken dance. And they're like, you don't like fun? And it's like, I only like fun. I reject that. This is fun. Wooden matchsticks used to be a staple. The earliest mention of them sh.

[Valerie]

My brother. I really give my brother credit for making me interested in being an intellectual at all. Just because he was my older brother and I was going to be into whatever he was into and he happened to be a smarty pants, but I know he was experiencing this from other people. So it's. It's not his fault. But I. It reminds me of trying to pretend to, like, you know, like, Bayla Fleck and the fleck tones or like, you, sir. Or the off brand Monty Python or like, you. You know, all these things.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't like the knights that say knee here. We talk about this a lot. We talked about this last week. It's Jesse Eisenberg. It is proverbial.

[Valerie]

So I just.

[Pete Holmes]

And Jesse Eisenberg is a New York intellectual type.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Where he's like. Well, it's like Aaron Sorkin is their wet dream. They know everything, and they're fast in how they know it, and they say it and they actually tie. It's also Rob Bell. Rob Bell is who we love. Is like. And Jesus's sandals. What does that have to do with ice cream in Minneapolis? And you're like, if you're not, I.

[Valerie]

Can'T take that journey with you, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Give me 12 hours of sleep and a triple espresso and good news, then I'll be ready.

[Valerie]

Oh, this is.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's just jealousy. I'm looking at how much fun all of these people are having, and I go, God damn it. I'm still the freaky kid in the back that's like, fuck you.

[Valerie]

Well, you know what we're really touching on is. And this is what I. The point I was trying to make of the story, the. The show, how this was made or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Valerie]

Is just like taking, like, matchsticks or tires or, like, toasters. Like, the most random thing and showing how it's made.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I used to get the same feeling where I'm like, aren't we all so overwhelmed by life that we're barely hanging on with our view of things. I can't remember. Like, I can't be reminded that every tiny little detail of an object has a whole process of getting made. Like, that's. That's widening the scope way too much. And so that's the real. Obviously the fire behind this protector who is a stinker about this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Is that I'm like. And I specifically was overwhelmed when we were listening to it. Yeah. Where I'm like, this is so upsetting that you're so regulated and life is so not overwhelming to you that you want to widen the scope to literally everything to the rankings of colleges. I can't let that in.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna.

[Valerie]

I'm just barely hanging on as a.

[Pete Holmes]

As a flexi. Vegan. That's also what's annoying about vegans. And I'm saying this about myself, it's like, can't it just be chicken?

[Valerie]

Shut up.

[Pete Holmes]

And, like, the times in my life when I've been the most vegan were the times when I was getting incredible amounts of sleep. Very fulfilling work, happy, easy, single. Like, I was dating you, but you know what I mean. Like, it was easy. And then I was very into explaining how factory farming was. You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

Right. And also, that is.

[Pete Holmes]

That must be nice.

[Valerie]

You were falling in love during the day.

[Pete Holmes]

I was also very in love. Yes.

[Valerie]

Which is so I still am.

[Pete Holmes]

Wink, wink.

[Valerie]

I know, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Wink, wink.

[Valerie]

But, like, the beginning. Sorry, he has to do 40 winks.

[Pete Holmes]

Otherwise, I won't sleep for a month. I won't sleep for a month.

[Valerie]

That's one of my favorite Kumail stories, actually. There's these little moments where Kumail is, like. Will be just, like, so unexpectedly adorable.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Cute. Male.

[Valerie]

He's very. He can be very cute.

[Pete Holmes]

There's Kumail and there's cute Mill.

[Valerie]

And there was. We love them both at a party, and. And somebody was like. We were sort of riffing on, like, why is it 40 winks? 40 wings is not sleep. That's the shortest sleep ever.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what it is. 40 winks is like a nap is a nap.

[Valerie]

So it's like the short. I don't know what the riff was, but we were riffing on it, and then we moved on, and I looked over at Kumail, and he was just to himself, trying to wink 40 times.

[Pete Holmes]

That really, really brings me back. It was so 2001, coming up with Kumail and just noticing, like, this guy's a sweetie.

[Valerie]

He's just.

[Pete Holmes]

He's a sweet guy.

[Valerie]

Yeah. We also. One of our favorite moments is, can.

[Pete Holmes]

We get a burrito?

[Valerie]

No, it was the video game, the skiing video game. You have to explain that one, because I love this. This made me love Kumail forever.

[Pete Holmes]

I really. I really feel a huge burden to get this right.

[Valerie]

Yeah, you should. That's why I gave it to you.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna say this. We're talking about the same thing, this whole episode. Malcolm Gladwell and what we're about to talk about. And some of the. I can't even be troubled to remember the other things. Oh, veganism. Just. We're talking about bandwidth.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Kumail has the bandwidth for video games now that Leela is six. I play video games more than I used to, but I am certainly not, like, I'll buy a. Like, I don't know if I'm Going to get the new Switch. But if I buy a Nintendo Switch, it's in the same spirit that you'd buy a book in the hopes that you would have a future that allowed for time to do that.

[Valerie]

Right. Like you're.

[Pete Holmes]

You're buying maybe a better life, like an alternate reality. Yes. I'm going to buy a Nintendo Switch 2. Because in this new fantasy that I'll be living in.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I have so much time and my emails are so answered.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And my work is so down that I'm gonna play Mario Kart. Open world. Fuck you.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So anyway, Kumail does still play video games, and we went to their house. This is a long, long time ago.

[Valerie]

But I was gonna say, I. I don't know. We don't know that for sure, but I think he is probably still playing video games.

[Pete Holmes]

I would bet every. Well, let's not get crazy. But I would bet a large sum that Kumail is still loving video games. But he was like. It was so cute. It was like we were junior high boys and he was showing the fun girls his new game, and he was like, I won't do the voice. There was a time. There was a time I would have done the voice, but the voice, like, I can do it that well, that it's known as the Voice. I won't do my bad Kumail impression.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But Kumail is like, check this out. There's this great game. It's a snowboarding game. You can do all these. It's like Napoleon Dynamite. He's like, you can do all these sweet moves. You can do all these sweet moves. So he loads it up. No, no, no, no, it's already up.

[Valerie]

No, he's playing. Yeah, he's going down the hill, but he's.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he's at the top of the hill and he's about to. He's like, watch. You can do all these sweet moves. And then he does these two hops, the smallest. He's like. He's kind of like figuring out the buttons. It's like kind of a new game. So he pushes the jump button because the guy isn't moving. It looks like a guy struggling with the equipment. Like, it's such a realistic game. It looks like what a real guy would look like if he was kind of trying to find his feet.

[Valerie]

He's, for the first time in his life, trying to do a little bump.

[Pete Holmes]

And he did two. When I say pathetic, it doesn't even begin to paint the picture of how stupid these jumps were right off of the back of him bragging. And it is important to a girl. Look at these sweet moves you can do. Hop, hop. And we all three of us scream, laugh. It was one of the funniest things that had ever happened.

[Valerie]

So cute. Check out these sweet moves in just the tiniest hubs. Like, so tiny.

[Pete Holmes]

And he knew to walk away.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He knew to just take a break and laugh.

[Valerie]

You sort of are like, why is that even an option on the game? Like, it should be that they should be something cool or nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah. In what? I'm stupid. I'm thinking if he had built up some speed, I bet it would have been a cool jump. But he was just standing still. So he did, like, the most limp biscuit. He did two limp biscuits.

[Valerie]

I loved it. Two unexpected, adorable Kumail stories.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And the other thing that Kumail and I have in common is that we can. With our partners. Well, maybe he doesn't want me to say that. It's so funny to have a friend that got so famous.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Not that that was anything that interesting. Trust.

[Valerie]

Yeah, but it's just.

[Pete Holmes]

There's cute mail in there. He's also very sweet. Was the point of that story is you and I are both. He and I are both very sweet in our relationships.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Sweetie babies.

[Pete Holmes]

We're little sweetie babies.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's extra fun now that he's super muscly and you're like.

[Valerie]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

But he's still the same guy. So it's like there's this very sweet guy. Yeah. Who cares? What does it say anyway? So this is a gossip podcast.

[Valerie]

Who cares?

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares?

[Valerie]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

So what? Well, I do want to get into. Yeah, it's hard to get into, but like, talk about what was so upsetting this week. But we could talk about. I think it'll be beneficial maybe to talk about it. I don't know.

[Valerie]

What do you think about.

[Pete Holmes]

No, my thing.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or we could talk about. You know what we'll do? We'll go to the mid Rolls and when we come back, we'll talk about being in Utah for this movie.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's fun. And being with Judy Greer again. Doing a movie and doing a movie. No. And then maybe we'll talk about the family stuff. That was pretty interesting.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I do. I actually do want you to talk about that Hillary McBride quote that you read me and stuff.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So we won't dwell in the. In the drudge of it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But when you told me that it was really, really helpful. It's. It's very. We made it weird. It's like talking about healing trauma doesn't mean you stop hurting. Yeah. And every single time, I'm like, why do I still get my feelings hurt?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And why am I still angry or sad? And then that conversation is always worth having. So we'll dip our toes into those sweet, sweet waters right after this. All right, folks, let's talk about gut health. Because if you're like me, you've had those moments. Eat a big meal, you're feeling good. Then chef how you're bloated, sluggish, and wondering why your pants suddenly don't love you. I've been there and I've thought, okay, maybe I need a detox. Maybe I need to cut out everything fun. But then I found something that actually works. Peaks Pu Er tea. I always say it weird because I want you to remember. Pu Er, P U dash or apostrophe er Pu Ert. I'm not kidding when I tell you this stuff changes the game. I start my mornings with green pu Erh. I gotta tell you, it's like flipping a switch. I get this calm, focus, energy that doesn't come with all the caffeine jitters or that dreaded afternoon crash. And after meals, black pu Er is my go to. It is smooth, earthy, and leaves me feeling light and balance instead of like I just swallowed a brick or licked a car battery, you know, drinking too much caffeine. But here's the kicker. Pu Erh tea isn't just tea. It's fermented, which means it's loaded with living probiotics and prebiotics that actually support your gut health, which is an amazing thing for your entire body. It's like a reset button for your microbiome. And the science backs it up. The antioxidants from this tea help with digestion, energy metabolism, even radiant skin. And yes, this is tea that makes you glow. Who knew? Let's talk about quality, because not all tea is created equal. Peak Pu Erh tea is wild harvested, it's triple toxin screened, and dissolves instantly in hot or cold water, making it such an easy and pleasurable process to make instant gut healing magic fast and easy. Now, because you listen to this podcast, Peak is hooking you up with 20% off. For life. Yes, for life. Plus a free rechargeable frother and glass beaker. When you grab their Puair bundle, this is an exclusive offer just for weirdos. And Peak backs it up with a 90 day money back guarantee so you can try it risk free. Go to peaklife.com weird to grab yours now. That's peaklife.com weird. Your gut and your energy will. Thank you. Okay, we're back.

[Valerie]

All right. Okay. We came back. I told you we would.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't have too much to say about the movie. Let's start with the. Let's start with that Hillary McBride quote. That was more interesting. What. What I was gonna say was, I don't even know if we need the details.

[Valerie]

I was. I don't have my audio on, and it's still doing that on Instagram, but I tried to go on Instagram to pull up that quote, to peel up that quote, peel up that quote.

[Pete Holmes]

All I'll say is. You know, it's a funny thing when you call your. Your parents and you start getting into a place where you. You believe, like, it's no big deal. Like, I'll go. Like, it's not a big deal. Just. Just call them. Just call them all the time. You've heard me say that on this podcast. And then you forget that. Like, and this is where the embarrassment comes in that you can be talking to these people that you love. And there are landmines. There are these things that are just gonna, like, really bother you for about three days.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I just got it. Distance plus desire equals delusion.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow, that's great.

[Valerie]

Like, I did this, too.

[Pete Holmes]

Distance plus desire is delusion. I delude myself to being like, yeah, what's the big deal?

[Valerie]

Because we want them to be a certain way. And it's been a while since we've talked to them, and then that it's. So we slip so easily into the delusion that. That it's going to feel good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I was just chatting with my folks and some. Let's put it this way, something that had made me feel good about whatever turned out to not be true. And that was sort of said to me casually.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that was also kind of offensive where it's like, don't you realize that you're taking back something that I thought had happened? And you're. And. But you're not even going. Like, I'm embarrassed. But, like, when I told you that that was that. It wasn't that, but it was more.

[Valerie]

Just like, sorry that I lied.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. There's none of that. It's just sort of like. And. And you're like. So you're left holding the bag.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how it feels. It's like things are happening, but the only one processing or considering feels like you. And you're Left with this. And then I'm like, again, for me, it comes out as anger. A very specific kind of anger. Like, you can smell it a mile away. I come home and I'm just kind of a bitch. I'm like a crispy bitch. And, like, not picking a fight. Certainly not with you or Leila, but I will be a little bit more. We've talked about this before. The first thing that goes out the window is, like, music or art. Everything is stupid. Everything sucks. Like, and then tell. Tell the people this good quote from.

[Valerie]

Well.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, go ahead.

[Valerie]

So, yeah, your response to it. And this is everybody. You know, I think this isn't specific to you, but our. We've said this so many times on this podcast that it's not the just the feeling, it's the shame around having the feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So we so quickly have big feelings, and then we're like, what's wrong with me that I feel this way?

[Pete Holmes]

I immediately go, it's two pronged. I've done all this psychological work and I've done all of this spiritual work. Why am I so.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Upset?

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's so on top of having the big feeling, you have to also feel like this is a failure of some sort because you feel that way, which is just such a strong pile on.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is Hillary McBride's new book.

[Valerie]

So Hillary McBride has a new book out that I haven't read yet, but we went to the book launch yesterday, and it comes out Tuesday. It's called Holy Hurt, and it's about religious trauma.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Which is just obviously you've. If you've listened to this podcast, you know that that is a very relevant thing in our. In our world. So. And if you. If you don't know Hillary McBride, definitely follow her on Instagram. She is an absolute treasure of a person who is, I think, sort of the voice of our generation. Anyway, so she has this quote from that book, and it is. We have defined healing as something going away. Instead, healing is the ability to attend to whatever is hurting, to turn toward where the injuries are, and patiently, with courage and clarity, let them be loved, and eventually to love them ourselves. So just this idea that, like, if we're still feeling something, then we must not be doing it right, or we're not healing because the feeling should go away when really it's just changing our.

[Pete Holmes]

Relationship to it and noticing that you are as lawful and appropriate as everything else. So we've talked on this podcast. I actually did this when I had this little upset where I was like, this is perfect. I picture my. My father, my mother winning the Oscar at the end of reality and everyone giving them a standing ovation. I picture Barbara Walters interviewing them and being like, how did you know to be just so perfectly this. That. And they're just like, I just did what came natural. You know, like. And everyone's like, unbelievable. And. And then I'm also like, okay, that gives them permission to be how they are, which you and I are pretty good at. But then it's like, also give ourselves permission to be like, how did you know to be such a sensitive artist type. That was, like, sad and angry for, like, three days. Like, we went to a birthday party.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just. Luckily it was with our dear friends. And I was like, yeah, I'm. I'm depressed. I'm sad and angry. And I. And I'm. I'm not really here. And, like, there was a new friend there, and I was like, I look forward to meeting you one day. I'm not here.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I get.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think it's that hurtful to say, like, should I say what the thing was?

[Valerie]

Yeah, I absolutely think you should. I think it would help a lot of people.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm realizing that it could be helpful because I want you to tell the Kathy Bates thing too, because that blew me away, and it won't really make sense unless I say it. So this is the spirit of being helpful. Right. So I did that movie, the Christmas movie. And. And by the way, I also want to show my cards here and just be like, what a privileged. Complained. But your. Your stuff is your stuff. And these are the pieces I'm dealing with.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Unnecessary, but okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, sure. But when doing this movie, and I'm doing this, like, religious movie, and. And it's like a very sweet Christmas movie. And. And I noticed that my parents. Oh, God, it's so sad.

[Valerie]

It is sad.

[Pete Holmes]

I just noticed that my parents were, like, particularly proud of that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I. I even joked with Dallas, our great director. I was like, I've done something that. That they won't be embarrassed by.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It's for them.

[Pete Holmes]

It's for them. And. And your side of the family has really knocked it out of the park. Like, groups went together, went multiple times. My grandpa went, and they wanted a poster that signed. And, like, they were just so blown away. And then my mom saw it as well, and. And I was like, you know, it's embarrassing, but your child self is like, oh, it worked. Like, remember I talked about that upset I had with my Folks where my mom was like, how can you love Buddha and Jesus? And I was like, I wrote a book about it. Like, I got really mad.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then you realize that I wrote.

[Pete Holmes]

The book for them.

[Valerie]

Like I wrote to understand you.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, you know, when people have complicated things, they always say, I'll put it in a letter. Like that way they can read it. Yeah, there it is. Exactly what I want to say. And that's how I felt about the book. I was like, here it is. Slowly and gently, this is me. This is me. And it didn't work. And I was devastated. Heartbroken.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Similarly, I was like, okay, now I'm doing these things and I'm going to make this movie and it's. And it'll reach them somehow. Like they'll be proud.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then my mom, I do think it was my mom said that my dad went and saw it in the theaters. I don't think he said it. I'm not sure about that. And that's not my child self. I'm saying I don't have a memory of my dad. I do recall.

[Valerie]

I think you talked to him about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I did talk to him.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

My mom was like, your dad went and saw it by himself. And I was like, what? I was like, oh, my God, so cool. Like he didn't want to miss his son on the big screen. I was like, wow. And then I did see them and we talked about it and I remember him being like, oh, those kids reminded me of these kids that I grew up with and all this stuff. By the way, I also called my aunt and had a great. This was like this weird movie that everyone in my family agreed with. And we talked about talking to my, my aunt and how she loved it and we were relate. And she understood it and was great. And it wasn't even about me being in. It was just like we enjoyed this thing together that I was in. So it was this weird, like bridge to all of these people in my family. And then my dad went and saw it. And then when I visited, we talked about it. And, and, and I do think it's hard, but I think there was like talk about, like we talked about it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like all of us talked about how good it was.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, oh, this is great. And then when I talked to them just a couple days ago, my dad was like, yeah, we were flipping the channels and your movie was on the Star Network Stars. And they watched it and he was like. And I really. And he's going on and on about it.

[Valerie]

I really liked it.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, I really liked it. And I was like, oh, you mean like even. Even more. I'm such a fucking rube. I'm like, even more than when you saw it in the theaters.

[Valerie]

That's not a rube.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm going, I'm so confused and gaslit that I'm just sort of like.

[Valerie]

That'S more response because I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm looking for the reality that I was told.

[Valerie]

Huh?

[Pete Holmes]

And I goes, you mean like on reviewing it, yeah, you liked it even more. Appreciated it more. And I was like. Because I thought you saw it in the theaters. And he go. And he just goes, oh, if I'm being honest, no, I didn't. And I was like, so that. That was. And look, I do want to be clear and be like, it's hard to talk about this stuff. Just in that moment.

[Valerie]

So brave.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's like there's. There's the shift of your reality, and it's not just a reality. It's the reality of your child self. This thing that was like, precious like that. That you're even embarrassed that it was precious to you. It's like some weird thing in your prison cell. And you have it wrapped in a. And you take it out and look at it, and it's special. And then you wrap it back up and hide it under your bunk bed. And it's. And it's. It's sort of like, it shouldn't mean that much to you, but it does. And then, of course it does. It's not just like, again. And like, I want to orchestrate how these things happen, but it would be different if it was like, you know, I wanted to see it in the theater. And I'm sorry, like, if there was any sort of acknowledgement, but it was just sort of like. Like, hey, I saw it. And I'm like, oh, you. And you liked it even more. No, I didn't see it before. And then. And then the. The coup de gras. I don't know how that term goes, but he goes. And. And then he was like. And then you. I. I kind of saw where it was going. The kids put on the pageant, and I was like, so we. Well, yeah. And I was like, finish it. You didn't finish it? He was like, no, I was tired. And so then even flipping through the channels, there's the movie. This is the Hurt is like, that your son is in.

[Valerie]

That your son is in.

[Pete Holmes]

And you just happened on it.

[Valerie]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's not a long movie. This is all the pain, of course. And it was like I got it and then. But there's something uniquely upsetting just about how that was breached so sort of carelessly.

[Valerie]

You don't have to explain us single thing about why that was upsetting. Every single person listening knows that. That of course was upsetting. Yeah, that's what I told you. I was like, you pull everyone in America.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's how you, all those people.

[Valerie]

Are going to agree. That's up.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, I, I, I'm worried.

[Valerie]

See, I, I know, but I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried. I'm worried that there are some people that would be like, that would do what I've been programmed to do my whole life. Which is like the first thing I do is I go, there's like a ridiculing voice. It's like you thought your dad sat in a theater by himself. Did he get a popcorn and a soda and watched a movie?

[Valerie]

The easiest thing a person can do. He actually literally has to do nothing except for drive and stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but the voice goes, you're, you're a fool. Like that's ridiculous. That's just not, that's just not something that would happen. And then I start laughing. I'm like, that's true. That's, that's ridiculous. That's too much. But that's like a protector too.

[Valerie]

No, that is. Yes. And that is the child self who will always make themselves wrong before they believe that their child is wrong or they're sorry their parents are wrong because it's so dangerous for the parents to be wrong that a child will a hundred percent go, well, it must have been my mistake. I'm silly for thinking my daddy would go to my game or to show.

[Pete Holmes]

It's, it's, it's exactly what you would see in a movie and you'd be screaming at the screen that I'm, I'm like, well that's on me for thinking you might have done that.

[Valerie]

Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

When you said that you did and then had follow up conversations with me and when I guess based on the preview, it's like the Cliff Notes.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you know what the next voice is. Who cares? It's a movie. Nobody needs to see it. Like you, you get like the kid that's, that's sweet and tender and broken inside. But all they do is work on their motorcycle and at the junkyard and they have a tattoo and they're just like who cares? Nobody cares. It's fine. But, like, deep down, that that's how I feel. I'm like, you don't have to see it. It's fine. That's fine. That's not. That's not the kind of family we are.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You go like.

[Valerie]

And we can love that protector too, because it's incredibly painful and the protector is, is lovingly trying to spare you of that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But the thing is, is that there's no amount of doing that that's not. That's going to like, not make your body feel incredibly wounded about that. Because that's. That's the truth, is that it is wounding that, you know, you have turned your wounds into this very amazing superpower where because you need to be seen and understood by your parents, you do a podcast and do stand up and write books and are in movies, all these ways of self expression to be seen. And we all benefit from that because it makes us also feel seen because we're similar. And the way that you're so bravely sharing this thing that you're actively going through, which is the bravest thing a person can do, is I guarantee, is making people feel very seen currently. But the original wound is that you want these two people to see you. So when they literally don't go see.

[Pete Holmes]

You, oh, my God.

[Valerie]

Of course that's incredibly painful. Just. Of course it is. You don't need to be embarrassed about that. Like, there's no, there's nothing wrong with being upset about that. That's a. That's an appropriate thing to be upset about.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't. Yeah. Even as you're saying that, though, I'm like, I'm a grown man. I shouldn't need anyone to go to my little league games.

[Valerie]

But that's the thing. I understand that. And I think you can reframe that to be like, of course that's upsetting. And I can remind myself that I've made it out of there. I don't need them anymore. But, yes, my safety doesn't depend on these people seeing me. I have, you know, like hundreds of thousands of other people see me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I appreciate, if I'm being honest, what comes up in a moment like that is incredible unsafety is like incredible threat.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It feels like death. Like you're gonna die.

[Pete Holmes]

So when we. Yeah, when we talk about that, that's very real. It's like in that moment, in the same conversation, my dad referenced our daughter being a certain age and it was the wrong age.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't Even register that. Because if you shot it in a movie, it would have been that high pitched like. And I'm just like, not worse there. And then the rest of the day. And this I am. All of this is to be helpful, but the rest of the day I'm so angry and scared. And my therapist has helped me realize that. It's like this part of us would rather attack anyone than let the child be attacked anymore.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So it'll make other people stupid. Art is stupid. Movies is stupid. Everything's stupid. Everything sucks. And it's just someone going like, this is the flawed armor that we have. But it'll work. It'll keep everyone.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The fuck away from you. Because in that moment, you, you feel under threat.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like, I'm under threat. And then I did spend the rest of the day and this is why I go, like, why can't this work instantly? Because I, I pulled into our house and I'm going like, look at your house is a home filled with love and your daughter and your wife and, and, and everything's okay. And you're literally seeing your life.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you're like, but you're not, you're not in your child self and all you're seeing is like, it didn't work. Yeah, this like, sweet little plea didn't work.

[Valerie]

Right. Yes. I know this place. And I, I, my version of it will. If I'm really in the dark hole, I'll go, oh, no. I have this beautiful life and it won't matter. I won't be able to enjoy it because I'm haunted by the past. Yeah, but that's not true. That's, that's just the momentary coloring of the glasses that you're wearing. And, and that's when it's like, that's exactly when my therapist would go, let's not get caught up in the content. Just can just like continue to go back to the felt experience. And when I was sort of not to turn this on to me, but like when I was going through my sort of family stuff and very, very activated. But I do feel proud that I remembered. I'm not always able to, and I might not be able to today, you know, but I did remember, like, oh, right, I need to meet this with softness and like, get my body in a bathtub and just sort of let the tightness in my, like, stomach exist and let that just be a tightness in my stomach and not think about how I should feel and what I should do. And I started to of course, like, get into the spinning of that. And then was like, actually, what a relief that I don't have to figure any of that out and that all that's existing is a tightness in my stomach. And. And like, I like, did the sobbing where you like, it really is just like shaking, like, you look like Shakira just like shake. Chest shaking, sobbing. And that felt amazing. But then, like. And because I let that happen and I didn't get. Every time I got caught up in the story, I just like, brought it back to the feeling there. There was this, like, space around it where I was like, right, like, I feel awful and there's no problem.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I can. It didn't. It didn't go make anything go away. The rest of that day and the whole rest of the next day. I felt like irritable and angry and very close to tears and was very much in my feelings, but it was like, yeah, of course I am. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to the Oscar idea. So, like, enlightenment or being self realized or whatever doesn't mean you're happy all the time. Or it doesn't mean that the character like Pete or Valerie is happy all the time. It's like no matter what is happening, you recognize that it emerges from and recedes into the same crisp knowing the same being.

[Valerie]

And that you can be. That's what this Hillary McBride quote is. Is that you can turn towards it and be with it and that. And people just think that, like, I know because I used to think this and still sometimes can. That you're just sort of like white knuckling sit. Like being like tortured and sitting with it like that. That's what sitting with it is. But it's so much softer in that way that like, I think we all know. I think we can all see how like some, like, real sadness is, like, beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Well, that's. The tantric approach is going into it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And recognizing that. Exactly what you just said. That, like, what you're. What I'm calling a depression or a fear or a sadness. Anger cocktail in this moment is actually just this one thing. And when we go. When we zoom into it, we see that it's made out of love. You could say it's made out of, like, life. It's made out of being. It's. And it's pretty okay. And it's not just pretty okay. It is okay.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It's all of it. That's what I also kept feeling when I was in the tub and really did just Sort of feel like from my belly button to my collarbone was just sort of pulsing. And then I was like, yeah, this is so soft and open. When you're somebody who's been dissociated and sleepwalking through life for a large portion of your life, it actually is amazing. You're like, that actually is what feels the worst. To be, like, numb to life feels way worse than any pain I've experienced, any emotional pain. So even when I'm sad, I'm like, oh, look at how soft and open and really alive I am. Like, really, really awake.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Again, that's the flawless thing. It's like, how did you know to feel confused and angry and sad and so many things? And I'm like, holy shit. This is like, a truly incredible mosaic. And then giving myself the permission to, like, feel it, and that's what I did with my friends, I was like, I'm not in the mood to riff. I'm. I'm just feeling it. And then the other thing, and we've talked about this on the podcast before, but I've noticed that, like, this brokenness, which is what we're really talking about, brokenness sounds judgmental. This. This tenderness really makes you need people. So we went to Hillary's book party. We listened to Michael Gunger play incredible music and Lisa Gunger and Will and everybody. And, like, I was deeply moved by all of it, because I was so. Richard Rohr has something like that where he's, like, thinking you can do everything yourself is, like, the opposite of what this is. It's like. It's all about interconnected interconnectivity and surrender and brokenness. And it's probably in Breathing Underwater, he's talking about AA and how, like, the entryway into relationship and truth and growth and all of these good things is brokenness.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I do resist it. And yet I'm like. Like I always say, a good episode. Oh, you found out Daddy. We'll say Daddy specifically. Daddy didn't watch movie two times, actually.

[Valerie]

Right. That's right. Yep. Right. Good episode.

[Pete Holmes]

That's.

[Valerie]

It's a Rich life.

[Pete Holmes]

And then watch that fertilizing the soil to a place where the music that specifically Michael played went right into the cracks. Went right into it made me penetrateable, and it also made us laugh. And it made me want to be with my friends. And it's Leonard Koh, and the cracks are what makes the light get through. And I'm like, but. And I would add to that. Yet don't be surprised when every Single time you're cracking, you resist it with every single ounce.

[Valerie]

That's right. And that even like there's a mistake that I can make where I'm like the, the light, like all these things that we're talking about, that's just like a consolation prize that we have to like because we have to suffer. So we're trying to sort of make us force a silver lining and that's not it. And it doesn't feel that way actually when you're experiencing it. It's like, no, this is all part of it. It actually is part. The suffering is the beauty. It's not like there's suffering and then you'll try to see the beauty, you know, next to the suffering.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

It's like.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it is, it would be like, it's a. Not a perfect metaphor, but. Well, actually I'll use Rupert and Ramana Maharishi. Like the screen is beauty and on the screen we're watching a movie about let down feelings, but the screen is, is beautiful and light and it, everything is made out of the same thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is complete and beautiful and timeless and present now and.

[Valerie]

Ah. How does it feel that you were so brave today?

[Pete Holmes]

How does it feel to be.

[Valerie]

How does it feel how to be so brave today? Honestly, I, I mean, do you have a vulnerability hangover?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, I, I feel like I, I have therapy tomorrow and I know I'll be doing a lot of crying there and that'll feel really nice. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not super rocked by this. It always feels good to kind of talk about it and share it and.

[Valerie]

Well, I hope you don't mind, but I do have this idea that, you know, when, when I was really feeling low about Leela's tantrums, remember I was like, this might be a good use. Like if you. To our beautiful listeners, if you feel called to, if this was moving to you and you feel called to write in about that, that is, that will be very useful. And I did that with Leela when I was afraid of Leela's tantrums. And I got some lovely letters of people saying I was like that or my daughter was like that and now we're incredibly close and it meant so much to me. So if you've been through something like what Pete just shared or if it was moving to you in any way, you can DM me even, and I will pass it along because this is what we're here for is like the solidarity of like, this is really Hard. And you are just vulnerable. And every time, the more vulnerable and authentic you are, the more beneficial it is to the whole.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. That's why. Yeah. It wasn't just. I. I didn't even want to do it. It wasn't just fodder.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All this will feel. It didn't feel. That's, you know, to close on something I love about myself is like. It's. It's sort of intolerable for me to be, like, kind of alluding to something.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I love this.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I go, like, I can't just say the thing, the half measure. I can't do it. Would you remember to say what you're going to say? But don't forget the Kathy Bates.

[Valerie]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, great. Because that'll be like.

[Valerie]

And it's so funny because we're telepathy tape merging where I. I was going to say, before you. When you were just alluding to it, I was thinking, like, you should say the details because, like, how helpful was the Kathy Bates thing? Because we knew the details. Yeah, that's right. And then you brought up the Kathy Bates thing. So there's a interview that's going around my algorithm, because my algorithm knows I love Kathy Bates, I guess, And I'm. If you've seen it, I might get the details wrong. But it's an interview where they. She talks about how her. Because I think she wrote about it in her book how when she gave the acceptance or when she won the Oscar for Misery, her mom had some sort of flippant response.

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares?

[Valerie]

Like a who cares response.

[Pete Holmes]

Big deal.

[Valerie]

And in the interview, Kathy goes, yeah, she was upset that I forgot to thank her. And then they play the tape back and she does thank her mom, and she gives her mom, like, a significant sort of thank you. And they play that back for her. And it's just so heartbreaking and beautiful and stunning to see her see that. And she's like. She just goes, like, I thanked her. I thanked her. Like, after all this time, she believed this story of her mom being slighted and that. And she was carrying the guilt of not being a good daughter in her mom's eyes, and she was a good daughter. And that's sort of what we're all doing is like, as we're healing this, we. We are taking the burdens that we took on as children in order to make our parents right. And we're looking at reality and we're going, wait, I did thank them. Yeah, I did thank them. I was good. It was never about me. It wasn't me. I don't have to carry that. That wasn't my fault.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So it was really powerful and beautiful, and you just did that for people. I'm certain of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Building a story. That's me going like, well, it's too much. It's too much to ask for someone to go to the movie.

[Valerie]

Exactly. Right. Exactly. Oh, how darling it is.

[Pete Holmes]

Darling. I know it's me, but I'm like, that's really adorable.

[Valerie]

Of course. Absolutely. It's almost as adorable as Kumail and the 40 winks. Wink, wink, wink, wink. Counting 40 winks, that's a pretty good nap. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well.

[Valerie]

Well, there you go. I mean, we. We did it. We went. We went there.

[Pete Holmes]

We did it.

[Valerie]

We went there.

[Pete Holmes]

We did it. And now we're gonna. Yeah, and now we're gonna record the high energy intro. Now that I'm all. I don't feel deflated. I feel succulent.

[Valerie]

Mm, succulent.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Valerie]

Supple.

[Pete Holmes]

Supple.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I also felt like. I feel a sort of, like marinated, like, at capacity. Succulent.

[Valerie]

Is that. I know what you're trying to say, but also, a succulent is a cactus, and maybe those are two words.

[Pete Holmes]

Succulent also means like a. A dish can be succulent.

[Valerie]

Oh, right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's such a stupid word, I think. But anyway. Yeah, so when you listen to the high energy intro, which you already did, know that it was right after all of this tenderness. But thank you, Valerie, and thank you, everybody. I hope it is helpful and, you know, let the healing begin.

[Valerie]

That's right. And thank you for showing us what real courage looks like.

[Pete Holmes]

You guys can't see this, but I'm sitting on a severed dragon head.

[Valerie]

Yeah, and that's what I meant. Not that. Not that sentimental bullshit you just spouted.

[Pete Holmes]

That I am a witcher. All right, Val, go ahead.

[Valerie]

All right, thank you. And go ahead, keep it crispy.