We Made It Weird #221

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — We Made It Weird #221

Date: July 11, 2025
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-host: Valerie (Val)

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Episode Overview

This week's "We Made It Weird" is a heartfelt and sprawling catch-up between Pete and Val after a brief hiatus. What starts light spirals into vulnerability, laughter, and tears of hope as the couple traverse topics of nostalgia, growth, friendship, risk, aging, therapy, and the changing seasons of their lives.

Their open, conversational style yields memorable reflections on childhood, relationships, middle age, healing trauma, and the spiritual “both/and” of life’s joy and pain. The mood shifts from playful to profound (as noted early: “the first half, a little bit more light…then the second half is just, wow” [01:00, Val]).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nostalgia, Identity, and Growing Up

• Swimming & Aging: Pete and Val joke about getting older, with Pete sharing about swimming daily and the inevitable comparisons and playful jabs (“He's older than all of us. He's older than God, I think.” [08:49, Val]).
• College Years: Pete reminisces writing songs as a moody college student, struggling with identity. He shares about composing “Who Could Love a Monster?” alone in an empty dugout, embodying that adolescent search for self.
  • “I felt behind that line, like somehow I was... waiting for my real life to begin.” [13:11, Pete]
• Finding Fit in Friend Groups: Both discuss not peaking in high school or college, and relate to movies like "Booksmart" about realizing–maybe too late–they missed out on "big" formative experiences.

2. Friendship, Attachment, and Jealousy

• Monogamous Friendships: Val describes high school best-friend dynamics as “dry runs” for romantic relationships [18:07, Pete].
• Dealing with Change: The anxiety of friends moving away comes up. Pete openly shares his protectiveness and scarcity-driven fears, tracing them back to his mother (“If she's giving it all to them, will there be any left for me? There's like a lack mentality.” [28:13, Pete]).
• Marriage as Security: Pete jokes about marriage being a male-invented anxiety mechanism: “Let's get the law involved. I want it on paper because I don't trust it.” [30:00, Pete]
• Letting Go & Authentic Connection: Both reflect on the need for vulnerability and the risks inherent in intimacy, friendship, and love.

3. Emotional Protection, Trauma, and Healing

• Internal Protectors: Pete dissects his "protector" part, inspired by Daniel Plainview (from There Will Be Blood), and how this stoic defender shapes his relationships and wariness of pain ([78:44]).
• Childhood Conditioning: Pete traces protective behaviors to his mother, a post-war refugee who modeled a wary outlook: “She would teach me, like, of course they didn’t come to your party. They got invited to a better party.” [33:57, Pete]
• Therapy & Parts Work: Pete shares breakthroughs from his Internal Family Systems (IFS) work, notably a powerful vision where his painful childhood home becomes filled with peace and beauty:
  • “Instead of the pain... it suddenly became like a cathedral... it was outside of time. It was like an expanded place.” [70:41, Pete]
  • “It was both and. The whole thing was both and.” [72:11, Pete & Val]
• Integration is Liberation: The idea that healing is not about erasing trauma but integrating it: “It was like this, all-encompassing vision... I will eat it all. It was all there.” [78:10, Pete]

4. The “Both/And” of Life: Joy, Grief, and Risk

• Beauty in Adversity: The episode’s spiritual core is the acceptance of both joy and sorrow:
  • “The only love that's worth having is both and.” [76:38, Val]
  • “My childhood house... was only accessible by going through a type of hell... going through that pain opened up this whole [heaven].” [84:17, Pete]
• Risk as the Juice of Life: Drawing on Justin Willman’s magic special and Esther Perel’s relationship philosophy, Pete and Val agree that risking pain is essential to meaning and passion:
  • “Risk is the juice not only of relationship, but of life.” [41:29, Val]
  • “You can live your whole life so cozy that you fell asleep and now you’re sleepwalking.” [41:44, Pete]
  • “If you leave, you can, but there’ll be a reckoning...” [30:03, Pete]
• Letting Go of Certainty: Acceptance that things don’t go linearly—true integration is “knowing that when you are triggered... you have the resources to move through it.” [88:32, Val]

5. Aging, Virility, and Physical Empowerment

• Pole Dancing as Reclamation: Val describes starting pole dancing classes and the transformation from self-consciousness to empowerment:
  • “You start... like, 'I’m not gonna be able to do it. I’m going to look so foolish.' And then you start looking really good to yourself. And then... it becomes very empowering.” [56:33, Val]
• Aging Optimism: Both push back on the narrative that growth and vitality are only for the young, citing an aerial yoga teacher who, at 78, insisted, “You are only as old as you let your body become.” [62:58, Val]
• Identity Through Activity: Pete champions doing what works for you—even if it's dorky (like swimming with a snorkel): “The reason I’m being the champion of it is it’s like the dorkiest thing in the world, but who cares? It’s your helps.” [65:25, Pete]

6. Parenting, Projection, and Legacy

• Shaping Children’s Worldviews: Discussion of how their daughter Leela absorbs their attitudes about friendship and conflict, and the dangers of teaching defensiveness (“I'm very good at keeping effortless track of what you did that was not you" [48:22, Pete]).
• The Balance of Openness vs. Protection: Recognizing the value in children’s less-judgmental, forgiving approach to relationships as something adults can learn from: “They really sort of let everybody be who they are…and they don’t build cases.” [47:32, Val]

7. Poetry, Reflection, Closure

• Poem Reading: Val reads “Little Things” by Sharon Olds, encapsulating the episode’s theme: finding and loving “small beauties” even amid pain ([93:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “These tears are not of sadness, but of hope.”
  — Pete, [01:14]

• “I'm not proud of it and I don't think it's good. But I will say it leads to tension in the good way.”
  — Pete on jealousy, [27:55]

• “Life is risk. And life is, you know, courage and fear and uncertainty and all of these things.”
  — Pete, [42:05]

• “The only love that's worth having is the both and.”
  — Val, [76:38]

• “I felt like something you would do on your deathbed. It was like this, all-encompassing vision.”
  — Pete, [78:10]

• “We don't move on. We move through...or maybe we move with.”
  — Pete, referencing Father Greg Boyle, [89:57]

• “We are learning through these wounds to become softer, opener...feeling it all. Because we trust the process of feeling.”
  — Val, [92:57]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 05:18–10:39: Early banter, aging, playful burns, Pete’s embarrassing adolescent songwriting
• 13:11–16:13: College reflections, searching for identity
• 27:55–31:10: Jealousy, friendship anxiety, and marriage as security
• 40:08–42:05: On risk and joy—“risk it for a biscuit”
• 56:33–61:28: Val’s pole dancing journey, women’s empowerment, aging vibrantly
• 68:36–79:43: Pete’s transformative IFS therapy: from pain to integrated peace
• 84:31–88:15: Heaven and hell analogy, the “blue lit house” vision, and the centrality of integration
• 93:10: Val reads Sharon Olds’ “Little Things,” summing up the episode’s message

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, and self-aware—the show is packed with humor, playful teasing, and deep vulnerability.
• Reflective and encouraging—an invitation to embrace both pain and joy, the past and the future.
• They oscillate between making each other (and the audience) laugh and bringing tears with raw admissions and moments of grace.

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Final Takeaway

We Made It Weird #221 is an episode about owning your weirdness, embracing the complexity of past and present, and bravely facing both pain and beauty. Pete and Val model how partnership can be a space for both comfort and challenge, and how true growth lies not in erasing wounds, but in learning to see them through the “blue light” of acceptance and love.

“Keep it crispy.”

Transcript

[A]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What's happening, weirdos? Whoa.

[A]

This is like. Like an epic.

[B]

This is an epic. That's why it's 90 minutes long.

[A]

What time is it?

[B]

Okay, we both have tear marks down our faces, and I know I always say this, but this is a special and wonderful chat, and I'm so glad everybody is here. This is. We made it weird. This is the Friday edition of the show where Val and I catch up. And I'm so glad we did. It's been a while, and I think this was better for the little break we just took.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

So the first half, a little bit more light. Light, as I always give this warning. And then the second half is just, wow.

[A]

Really go in really good. You did some good vulnerable shares there.

[B]

Yeah, I would say it's not like a trigger warning kind of situation. It's just beautiful.

[A]

It's like very. It's not. It would. They were tears not of sadness.

[B]

These tears are not of sadness, but of hope.

[A]

Mr. Frodo, enjoy.

[B]

Beautiful stuff. So we're so glad you're here. Only a couple things to plug. I'm in Houston currently, if you're listening to this. Not right now, but I will be if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, come see me in Houston. And then all of the tour dates are on petehomes.com we just added Chicago. Boston is on there. Come on out. I love this new hour. I hope you can be there. And we're just going to play a couple ads and then we're going to drop right in. The ads are for things we actually use and actually love, so. Katie, roll it. This is. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Tushy Tushy Bidets. The best bidets in the biz, and you got to get one. I don't know why. It's 2025 and we're all just wiping our butts with paper. It's disgusting. You gotta up your butt game. Up your butt game. If your manhood feels like a Florida panhandle. The Florida panhandle this time of year. Great news. You can instantly refresh yourself 15, 20, 35 times a day without jumping in the shower. We're talking about a tushy bidet which transforms SW swamp, but into a dewy, nice, clean cloud. It's perfect. I got a tushy bidet years ago, and there is no going back. It is a different level of clean. If you had poop on your hand, would you just wipe it off with a tissue? No. You would power wash it like leaves off your driveway. And that's exactly what a Tushy bidet does. It's gentle but it's powerful. It's warm. The seat beautiful. I love everything about it. Tushy is the everyday luxury bidet that instantly transform your bathroom habits and your bottom health for life. It is easy to install, there is no need for additional plumbing and you can get one and support this show. How good is that? Keep your swampiest body parts fresh and cool for a limited time. Our listeners get 10% off their first bidet when you use code WEIRD at checkout. That's 10% off your first bidet [e-mail] with promo code Weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at dad Grass. I recently tossed all of my weed. That's true. Why? Because it was too damn strong. I was tired of smoking and being lost watching a basic movie. I was tired of eating an entire pizza because I was trying to get back down to earth. Thank God there is dad Grass. I am obsessed with the perfect dose that they have dialed in specifically with their leisure drink which is wonderful here in the summertime time ships legally to all 50 states if you're over 21. These are delicious sparkling cans of Yuzu flavored goodness that finally offers a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body, your mind with friends. I've been putting them out at parties. People love the way they taste, people love the way you feel. It's 3mg of THC which is the perfect small manageable dose plus 6mg of CBD and 2200mg of Lion's Mane which is just going to balance you out a little bit more. Mild dose, sessionable for a mellow experience. Happy and relaxed with no hangover. Stackable of course for a bigger buzz if you have a higher tolerance. Fast acting which means you're going to feel how you're going to feel in about 10 to 20 minutes. Get leisure drinks and all of dad Grass's products including joints and gummies by going to dadgrass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20% off. Put leisure drinks out at your next get together and thank me later. Dadgrass.com weird use promo code weird for 20% off all right, we're so glad you're here for a very very memorable and special and Transformative. We made it weird.

[A]

Valerie, get into it.

[B]

11:55Am on a Wednesday. It's the early part of July. Sitting here with Valerie and Janie. Valerie, how are you? You're wearing a blue. Kind of a sailor girl. Kind of a. Kind of a. Like a hoist John B. Sale.

[A]

John B.

[B]

What do you. What is it?

[A]

What is it? What is that?

[B]

Hoist up the John B. Sale.

[A]

That's what they're saying.

[B]

Well, full disclosure. Mecca, like a high Mecha hiney ho. I always thought they were saying Jambi.

[A]

Is it not. What are you saying?

[B]

I. What's funny is I'm saying it as if we can study it and learn it, but I don't know. So we're like looking at the wrong photograph to be like, what happened?

[A]

What?

[B]

But I'm kind of deliberately, vaguely saying hoist up the John B. It's either John B. Yeah. Or Jambi the. Which is the. What would you call. Indigenous word for. What would you call Jambi from Peewee's Playhouse? He's a. This is when you didn't get it at Mecca. Like a high Mecca Hiney home.

[A]

No, I'm not as familiar. I'm like. I'm embarrassed to say this. Not as familiar with.

[B]

No, you should be. I thought what you were gonna say is. I'm embarrassed to say this. I'm 36.

[A]

So you're saying I should be embarrassed about that?

[B]

No, that. That's young.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That.

[B]

It's too young for.

[A]

For Peewee. Yes.

[B]

See, if 36, which is what you are, is old and I'm dead.

[A]

I did have a burn just to my brother and sister in law about you. And it feels so funny to burn someone who isn't there. Who you love. And you didn't mean it.

[B]

I can't wait. It was like on the edge of my burn.

[A]

It's like the.

[B]

Wait, are you putting me on burn notice?

[A]

I'm putting you on burn notice.

[B]

I'm about to be burned.

[A]

This is your burn notice.

[B]

I. I feel so alive.

[A]

Yeah, it really. I know you love being roasted.

[B]

Well, something's about to happen, right?

[A]

Well, it's not gonna hurt your feelings.

[B]

We can't be sure. Jaleel White is written on my whiteboard over there.

[A]

The point is, is that it wasn't shit talking. Shit talking would be like hurtful. Hurtful. This is like. Why would I even say that? He's not here to receive the burn and it's not true. The only reason you would ever say something like this is to like, kind of jab the person who's there and you weren't there. So it was. It was like a funny new phenomenon. But Derek and my brother and my sister in law and I were sitting at the table watching you swim.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

And.

[B]

Oh. I only say oh, no because the times people have been like, we were watching you walk across the quad.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Usually leads to someone going, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Like, that's the sound we heard in our heads.

[A]

No, it. It actually has. Because I can't exactly remember the details. I'm going to lean it. Maybe it was this, which is favorable to balance out the burn. We were watching you do your laps, and I. We were talking about how, like. Like, are we just at the stage of our life where every time we exercise, it just destroys our bodies and we're just always gonna be in pain if we're exercising. And I was like. And it somehow led to, like, Pete's been swimming every day. And he's. And I said, and he's older than all of us. He's older than God, I think. And it was like. It just felt weird to say that when you couldn't hear it and you never would know about it.

[B]

Yeah. You know what I mean? That's fun.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I like it. I was ready for, like, why does Pete look like he's drowning? Like, he looks like he's. That would have been, like, survival, right?

[A]

Sure. Okay. That would have been like, roasty.

[B]

No, I don't. I'm so glad. If you had said that, I might have become self conscious, which I'm glad it did.

[A]

Like, starting it with we were watching you swim does set it up. That would have been a worse thing.

[B]

I hinted at it, but that was a memory. Was. I've told this before. It was in college. My friends Jamie and Kim were in the car. And they were in the car first, and I was walking towards the car. From a mall.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they saw me walking and they were laughing at how you were walking. This isn't that. These are good people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, these are. I'm still friends with Jamie. I lost touch with Kim. But, like, walking and they saw me, and they were dying laughing.

[A]

And how you were walking.

[B]

That I walk like an oaf. This was around the time when I wrote the song who could love a monster?

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

I know. No, that I was going for a laugh. I was going for a laugh. That I went with my acoustic guitar into the dugout of. Of a abandoned. Not Abandoned but an inactive baseball field and sang in earnest. Who could love a monster? Because I was so.

[A]

Okay, you know what? I.

[B]

But I'm not. I. Like, I knew people. Look, no one deserves to feel like an ogre. But that's not even the right burn. Like, we could have been, like, clammy and loud. Like, that's. I'm more clammy and loud.

[A]

Loud than you are.

[B]

Than I am. Like.

[A]

You don't have enough body hair to be like, an ogre.

[B]

Yeah, I want, like, a thick. I want a disproportionately large head. I want a T. Robbins, honestly. And T. Robbins is rocking the. Oh, he's ogre chic.

[A]

Ogre chic. Yeah.

[B]

Ogre chic.

[A]

Yeah. I think like a Seth Rogen when I think ogre.

[B]

Seth Roger.

[A]

I mean, honestly, Seth Roger kind of looks.

[B]

You're the queen of my heart.

[A]

Looks like Shrek.

[B]

You're the queen of my heart. I love. I was like, you're not gonna acknowledge Seth. And then you just. You were scratching your cute little eyebrow and you went, seth, Roger. Because you know your boy is swimming in the sea of rifts, and if you don't throw me a life preserver, I might just keep riffing until I die.

[A]

You need to throw you a John B. We still don't know what that is.

[B]

Hoist up the John B. I think it might be John B. Like, the sail was named after a sailor named John B.

[A]

That's a good guess.

[B]

We're. Look it up.

[A]

Yeah, but only at the end.

[B]

All right, I'll write that down.

[A]

I love you. I love you too, John B. The. You know, the. The how can you love a monster thing. I've heard that story. You've told it on the podcast.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

This is really the first time it was hitting me, the detail that you went to, as you call it, an inactive basement field, which is only what somebody calls it who doesn't play baseball.

[B]

But it was a night field.

[A]

Like, that is such a hey there, Delilah moment. Like, how much? Just, like, speak more about the baseball field. Like, how much did that. Were you going like, this is it, man. Like, I'm in college. I got an acoustic guitar. I'm like, it just.

[B]

You like, I caught up to my life. And I think you'll know what I mean by that. It's like, you know when you're. When you accidentally. You paused a movie and then you accidentally fast forwarded? Like, if you're on an Apple remote, We're brought to you by Apple. I have to Say this. We're a Roku family. But I have to say apple remote. But I'm imagining other remotes. Non apple remotes also make it kind of easy to fast forward. So there's the line where you are in the movie, a white vertical line on the timeline. And then you accidentally. And now you're either way too forward or way too back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I was in college and thinking. And I did think things like, look at me. I'm. I'm 19 or 20 years old. I'm in a baseball dugout with my guitar writing a song about how no one will love me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes. And I felt behind that line like somehow I was. I hadn't yet caught up to where I actually felt like I should have been. I felt like I was buying. I wasn't fully there all of the time. I was like, I guess I'm kind of doing this, but boy, I guess looking back, I would be like, we're doing this. But I know this is just kind of like a purgatory period where I'm waiting for my real life to begin.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

As Colin Hay would say.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I didn't go like, this is it. I'm here. Some people did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some people fucking rocked college.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They wore like those crew, like those roll turtleneck sweaters and fucking had a carabiner with keys. This was my college. And they wore Birkenstocks with like puffy soft socks underneath. And they were the ra, but they were lax and they wrote poems and that was their time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We, you know, we talk a lot about peaking in high school and. And there's nothing wrong. It's so judgmental to say you peaked in high school, but some people did peak in college. I definitely, definitely, definitely did not peak.

[A]

Peak in.

[B]

Peak in college. I didn't feel like myself.

[A]

When do you. Do you think you peaked or have you yet?

[B]

That's a. That's a great question. Let me put a bit in that because I really want to talk about that. But I also want to say that I used to go to that dugout and smoke cigars.

[A]

Oh, cigars.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That seems this is missing.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't you see how in search of an identity, I was like, am I a cigar guy? Yeah, I liked that. I could. Could smoke a cigar A lot of like, of the more frail. What is the word?

[A]

Ogre.

[B]

Oh, my God, the inactively ogre.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People. But like the constitution.

[A]

Oh, yes. A frailer.

[B]

I like frail seems too mean. I just like that I had the constitution that could. Like when it came to drinking, I could drink like straight liquor and I could smoke cigars. Just a little bit of Teddy Roosevelt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I was like, maybe because I can do this, I should do this.

[A]

Those are like the bulbous nose activities. I can't even believe that made sense to you.

[B]

If there's ever been a talent, it's all been yours the whole time. My. My beloved Uncle Larry smoked cigars and drank liquor. He stopped drinking, I think. Yeah, of course he did. He. He stopped drinking. But when he was drinking, pretty sure it was the, the liqueurs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the cigars. And he looked like W.C. fields.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He and W.C. fields obviously is an even better example because everyone will know what I'm talking about.

[A]

Yeah. Famous bulbous nose.

[B]

The bulbiest.

[A]

The bulbous.

[B]

Like you plant that nose, a tulip grows. That's how bulbous is his nose. Sometimes we read Shel Silverstein poems and we'll play a game where I'll read a real one and then I'll make one up. This is my proudest moment we've done.

[A]

On this podcast with the fake songs.

[B]

With fake songs. It turns out if I'm reading Shel Silverstein poems and you prime me in that voice, I can make up a Shel Silverstein poem. That's. I. I'm gonna say not. Let's just say this. I'll just say what happens. You guys guess real a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm proud of this.

[A]

Yeah. You are very good at it. It's really. It is your skill. Like when we watch a show, I.

[B]

Can talk like you just talk.

[A]

Will talk like them instantly.

[B]

Right, right, right. And it's.

[A]

I mean, I think that's like such a good. Obviously that's a great skill for like a television writer that you can go into different writers rooms and write in the voice of that show.

[B]

Right. This is just too self serving even for me. And I love it. But I did want to flex just ever so slightly that it is impressive. I fool my six year old daughter with poems all the time. And you.

[A]

Okay, well, let's go back to college for a minute because Dugout. Yeah.

[B]

Bulbous.

[A]

Oh. I was asking that like how much? And that's an interesting answer. Like, like I'm here I am playing acoustic guitar in a baseball field. And that to me just feels really a little bit high school, but like very much what college was for me. I think I had. I remember like my senior year being with my best friend Rachel, who I spent my entire high school life with. Like, we were like. She. She helped me learn how to be in a monogamous relationship because it was really just the two of us.

[B]

That's so funny. We could unpack that, but we won't. But I'm just saying, like, those close friendships are kind of dry runs for what it might be like to be in a romantic relationship. Certainly, we're not the first to notice this, but me and Earn. So Rachel is your boy Earn. Or burn. Or burn notice.

[A]

She's my girl Earn. Yeah.

[B]

Sorry. Girl Earn. Gurn. Gurn. Blandstone. Just a riff machine. So you're Garen Blandston. But, like, the jealousy. Like, I remember we've talked about this, too. When Ern got a girlfriend, I was like, but you're seeing me. Yeah, like, it wasn't. If it was, I'd be proud and loud. Yeah, but we weren't romantic or sexual or sensual, but we were committed to each other.

[A]

Yeah, totally. And I was the one that got a boyfriend first bragging, married that boyfriend and got another husband.

[B]

Can I talk to you?

[A]

I'm just like. It's like. Because it's not really about a brag. It's like, it's cool that I had a boyfriend, but it was like, yeah, but then you married him, and you've been married your entire adult life.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I understand. I understand.

[A]

Anyway, but she. I was the first one of us that got a boyfriend. And I remember her just being really sweet and honest, like, about how, you know, hard it is. Like, she's like, I'm happy for you, and it's just, like, hard.

[B]

I should have done that. I instead, like, Daniel Plainview, went to my room and piece by piece, built a case against him and was, like. It was just so much. It was sadness. But I didn't lash out at him or anything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I'm sure I, like, teased him more or, like, there was no.

[A]

There was some aggression coming in. Yeah.

[B]

And I wish I had just been like, this is hard for me.

[A]

Yeah, no, she was a very good friend about it, but I. But I couldn't bear. It was hard for me, too. It was like I was mourning our relationship.

[B]

Can I. Oh, go ahead.

[A]

No, you say.

[B]

Are you sure?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I'm. I have, like.

[B]

Oh, you have another thing to it. Great little sidebar. Earn dated. I think she was from Brazil or something, but, like, a South American girl. Young lady. And I'll keep the details out. Who then? Who cares? Like, anyone up to speed with 1997, Lexington High School. Social dynamics is listening.

[A]

There's somebody flipping through a yearbook. Go on.

[B]

All I want to say that this is like, as I'm always doing with you, recognizing just your true talent. I think Earn and maybe myself, I forget who came up with it. I think it might have been together. Who cares? We used to joke his South American girlfriend's father, and maybe I've told this before, was very, very old school. Protective, like insane. Like, no, they can't kiss, they can't hold hands, and big deal. Big deal. Old escuela. Escuela no nuevo.

[A]

Yeah, he was old escuela. Abuelo.

[B]

Abuela is grandmother. But I know.

[A]

I knew that. But I wanted the rhyme to it.

[B]

Anyway. We used to joke that. He used to say, maybe I've said this before, but it deserves a retell. If you touch her, I will kill you. And then we would go transversely. If you kill her, I will touch you. Which I know in 2025, comedy, comedy, even. Even just comedy as a whole has advanced. Like, we know how to flip ingredients in 1996.

[A]

And like high school boys.

[B]

And Earn was the one that went transverse.

[A]

Of course he was.

[B]

He came up with the transitive property transversely. If you kill her, I'm already laughing. I will touch you is dead.

[A]

So good.

[B]

Dead funny.

[A]

I know we've noticed this before, but like, you, you know, there were 10 years. It was 10 years in between. But if you and Earn had met, Rachel and I. Yeah.

[B]

We would have become a weird quad.

[A]

Yeah, a weird quad. I know.

[B]

Look at that. Weird quad.

[A]

We were just telling nerdy jokes like that. Only to each other as well.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

We, like. We called each other Poncho and Don Quixote.

[B]

Well, we. Poncho and Don Quixote. Which one were you? Poncho?

[A]

No, I was Donkey.

[B]

Nice. I've always wanted to do the literary classic.

[A]

Thank you. Rachel thought of that. I mean, we thought of each other's nicknames.

[B]

Well, Earn and I called each other Rune. Air Run. Air. Rune. Rune.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I just, because it rhymed, became Toon. But I was more like a cartoon. Yeah, I guess so. Rune E. Tune. And then I used to make a whole series of fake video games that I would draw the. The, Like, I would map out. Like, what is the game? What does the interface look like? What's the play like? Called Rooney Tune. E being the Spanish word for Anne. Rooney Tune Run. And it was spelled R, U, N with a accent over the U.

[A]

Not exact.

[B]

Rune E. And I think yeah. Tune was T, U, N. Wow. With an accent over the U. Maybe an umlat, maybe a different accent. So it was Rooney Tune. And I used to make. Planning them. I used to make video games. I program.

[A]

The video game.

[B]

And I'm going to say it right now. What a shame. I had the satisfaction of hand building a video game. And now Leela, when she's in, her twins will just be like, probably have some AI make it for her. Yeah, it'll probably be awesome. But, yeah, I did it the old fashioned way.

[A]

I know.

[B]

All right, so something lost there, Rachel.

[A]

Well, so Rachel and I really sort of had. This is why I love the movie Booksmart. We really, like, related to that because, like, there it was, like, the end of our senior year. And I remember a moment where we were, like, laying on my car. My. At that point, I had a Chevy Malibu in 1989. No, that was the year I was born. 1981 Chevy Malibu. And we were laying on hood of my car and I was like, I think we did it wrong. Like, and I remember being like, I just wish we had, like, gone to more, like, bonfires on the beach.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I just was like, I wish we had not just, like, gone to your house every weekend and rented movies.

[B]

Yeah. Blockbuster.

[A]

Like, watched, like, IQ with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, Meg Ryan and whatever.

[B]

I relate. We're the same. I don't know, maybe we're an argument. We're certainly an argument for find someone who's incredibly similar to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we still are living that Blockbuster life. And I never go, like. And not to brag, but we get invited to, like, premieres and stuff. I've never once been like, we should go to this premiere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Never once. And it's an echo of the high school boy. That was like, did you know there's having a kegger down by Nolte Quarry or whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Named after Nick Nolte. And I'd be like, that sounds like death to me.

[A]

I know. But we. Because we're both like that. We have to look out for that, too. Because.

[B]

Yeah. When we do go to premieres, because it's something I'm in. We have a really fun time.

[A]

Yeah. And because, like, that's intimacy. But, like, you know, in order to keep the spark alive, you have to have, like, new experiences. Tell me you're listening to Esther Perel's book without telling me.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[A]

And one of the things that keep mentioning it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so interesting. It's not like, it's just because it's so fascinating.

[B]

No, I don't mean. I mean, I was literally trying to say, my love, I've noticed you have something to say about this book and what a great time here we are on the podcast. Please say it.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I meant. No, it just specifically, one of the things that she says is important, is essential to, like, her whole work is about how, you know, desire, need. So intimacy, intimate love needs closeness and connection and desire needs separation and tension and how it's like constantly a balance and a dance if you're in a long term relationship to keep both.

[B]

Yeah. And so can I chime in there? Maybe it's good then that I'm blindingly jealous of you being friends with anybody. I'd like to point out that in no way do I hinder you hanging out with friends.

[A]

No, you don't.

[B]

In fact, I encourage it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this blinding jealousy is just my little secret.

[A]

Well, yes, except for you can't hide your feelings, so everybody knows about it. Yeah, but you don't. You don't like. Yeah. You're not possessive. You just live with the jealousy of it. And I think, yes, that's nice.

[B]

I live with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not proud of it and I don't think it's good. But I will say it leads to tension in the good way.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you're with your friends and I see how fiercely you love them, unfortunately, there's a part of me that I'm not proud of, but I'm also not ashamed of that is just sort of like, if she's giving it all to them, will there be any. There's like a lack.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mentality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's giving it all to them.

[A]

It's like you are dealing with the challenges of polyamory without any of the perks for either of us.

[B]

But no, it's true. Because you love like. Like a deep lesbian relationship with your girlfriend.

[A]

I think no.

[B]

Deep lesbian.

[A]

No. I think what's happening there is that. I'm just kidding.

[B]

That you're close.

[A]

That is female friendship in its purest form. It's just sadly, because probably because of patriarchy, men don't have an equivalent with their relationships. So men see female intimacy and you're right. What are you. Les is. It's like, what are you?

[B]

Les's.

[A]

This is available.

[B]

What a hard word to say.

[A]

Les's.

[B]

Yes, that's true.

[A]

But.

[B]

Boy, that stinks. That. That's true.

[A]

I know, but that's. But there. But it's. It's available. It's just.

[B]

And my closest guy friend is moving to Denver.

[A]

I know. My friends are moving.

[B]

Years of work.

[A]

I know.

[B]

The. Tonight is our last hang.

[A]

I know. So sad.

[B]

And we hang out and we share vulnerabilities and we laugh.

[A]

I know, but see, you know, it's possible and you can see. Still do it with that.

[B]

Yeah. But you want to talk to this part of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Look what happens.

[A]

Oh, I see. Yes.

[B]

So don't do it.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

You know who invented marriage? A guy, for sure.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

No, I know, but this is me figuring this out for the first time. Let. You'd think it's the girl. I want a pretty dress and a cake and everyone to clap. That's. That's a concession. We gave you to go. Let's get the law involved.

[A]

Lure us into it.

[B]

I want it on paper because I don't trust it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what it is. Because I'm over here going, I gave my heart to this. I'm not even. I'd tell you if I was sad. I've given my heart. And then they're just leaving.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So then we just go, like. Well, yeah. And I'm not even that wrought up about it, but it is unfortunately evidence for this protector in my. In my psyche to be like, this is why, you know.

[A]

Right. Sure.

[B]

Say, stay close to the people that are pledged to you. Like, if you. If you left.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I could hire a lawyer. I mean, you wouldn't come back, but there would be like, I don't know. At least it would. Attention would be paid to quote Death of a Salesman.

[A]

Right. Like, it would be harder.

[B]

This person's just leaving and then I.

[A]

Go, like, getting away with it.

[B]

And there's. I have no. Like, wow. I'm really realizing how fucking anxious. Anxious attached marriage is. It's like, if you leave, you can. But there'll be a reckoning and you'll. And don't leave because you'll have all your stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Half of it is mine.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[B]

It is the most scared thing.

[A]

Yeah. That's true.

[B]

And I'm telling you, I'm a scared person. I'm like, I love that we're all sealed up. Can there be like, a wax seal on our marriage?

[A]

This is another. A stair pearl. Thing is, there's always one person in the relationship who is more afraid of being abandoned and the other person in the relationship who's more afraid of abandoning themselves. So, like. Or being trapped is another way.

[B]

Well, that's exactly us.

[A]

That's exactly. Us. Yeah, but she was like, a healthy relationship is that they talk to you for a second. It's not that. That's not the case like, that those two things will always exist. It's that, like, throughout your relationship that. That becomes more fluid, like where you switch roles throughout the relationship. So. But anyway, I do think that speaking to that part of you, you know, leaving is not the end of a relationship, of a friendship. I. I feel very. My two closest friends don't live in the same city as me, so it's just like, to consider that I'm going like Lisa.

[B]

I'm trying to figure out who they are. Never mind. Let's not do it.

[A]

But Lisa is one of them.

[B]

And then for all of those hundreds of your friends listening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe they're the other one.

[A]

It's you. Maybe it's you. Unless you live in Ohio.

[B]

Maybe they're like. But she means, like, I live in Ohio, but I'm kind of like, like.

[A]

In LA all the time. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, let's. Let's let them have that hope.

[A]

But. And also, I don't think any of my friends listen to this, but I do. I just want to speak to that. Like, it's a very black and white. Like, you left and now it's over. And I wonder where that protector came up for me.

[B]

Yeah, well, I know. I think I have a good guess. My. My mother really was, I think, anxious. Avoidant, maybe?

[A]

No, no. It's either anxious or avoidant.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was anxious attached or anxious avoidant.

[A]

It's anxious attached or avoidant attachment.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Those are the two attachments.

[B]

I. One of the most. And I. I'm not saying this to. It's not false when I say this. I. I saw an effort to protect me, and I saw, like, I'm giving you something very valuable. But we've talked about this before. That my mother, who. Who did the bulk of this sort of relationship shaping and deserves a lot of credit for that. She would teach me, like, of course they didn't come to your party. They got invited to a better party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she kind of had that voice.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And showed me that voice.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And when Sam and Smell are leaving, those are our friends. I do. I. I find an old, old wooden ship. I find an old piece of paper, and it says that it goes like, they got a better deal, a bigger, better deal. And you can't rely on people. They will leave. And this is my mother, who, by the way, you know, fled Lithuania.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Had all this loss in her life, like death and like death and lot and people that she needed were like flying. So she's like, the world isn't safe. And. And I just got some of that. Yeah, clearly. I'm really trying to be clear that I'm not vilifying what my mom did. She was saying, so guard yourself.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then you'll notice. So now our friends that are leaving are saying, don't worry, we're going to come back in a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've just been like, yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. Like you can't let them.

[B]

Yeah, well, I can't let them have the power and go like, so you're going to be in a new city and you're going to decide in a year whether or not you want to come back. And I'm just like, I'm gonna get ahead of this now and I won't. You will. All of our friends are like, great, we'll see you in a year. And one of the things I love about them is to their faces I go, you guys aren't go back people, you'll be in Japan. And they laugh and there's a truth to what I'm saying. And then Sam, who I love dearly, will be like, I hear, I take this anger as the love that it is, is what he said. And I'm like, wow, I only need friends like this. See that? I'm just going, I can't believe you're leaving. I love you so much.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[B]

But it comes out as like, I won't be fooled again.

[A]

And I do. Yeah, I do think maybe the way in for this protector is probably just seeing like it's actually this is maybe the best thing that this that could happen for this protector is like this protector might not believe it until he sees. Of course it is a self fulfilling prophecy. If this protector gets to rule your whole system, then he will push people away. Anybody who leaves, he'll just end their friendship and push them away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you now that you know that it's just a part of you and it's not a necessary part anymore. If he, if you just keep saying like, I hear what you're saying and let's just like wait and see what happens. Right Then continuing to have this friendship, you know, long distance, which has also happened with the guns like you. There's other examples of this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Might be really good. It might help him calm down.

[B]

I'm with you because. And one of the reasons I think my lucky Stirs. What was that?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I hated it.

[A]

Care for it.

[B]

I hated it.

[A]

Care for it.

[B]

Look, he's stars.

[A]

Ew.

[B]

It didn't even feel like me.

[A]

No, it doesn't feel like you. It feels like you.

[B]

Something I would say. Yeah. You had to see my face as I kind of jutted out my lower jaw going. My st. And you're keeping. I hated every part. Well, I'm trying to understand that. I want to see it. Maybe if we look at it again, we'll get it a little bit more.

[A]

Play back the tape.

[B]

But I'm so grateful that we're together is because I. I've seen the fruits of fruits. Fruits of this mentality. If you go, don't risk it for a biscuit. People will leave if they get a better deal, and they always get a better deal. You end up alone.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

It's, of course, a nightmare. Of course you have two. It's funny. Justin Willman did the podcast. Let me see if I can stick this landing on this point. And Justin Wilman special, which is called Magic Lover, is one of the finest things I've ever seen in my life.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

It's unbelievable.

[A]

I cried. I had goosebumps.

[B]

I also cried. I also had goosebumps. And I've seen a lot of unbelievable magic, and it is unbelievable magic, but it's also this incredible swirl of the impossible. Meaning there's all these moments, X factor moments that involve the crowd that really keep it from getting rigid. You know, bad magic is like. And I have an envelope with a card, and, like, nothing is involved. This whole show is like Swiss cheese. There's so many holes in it where real humans at the show are influencing the show. And he's rolling with it and folding it all in, and at the end, you're just blown away that, like, life, all of this random stuff happened, and it was all used. Not an ounce of it wasn't used. It's unbelievable. Check it out. Let me see if I can stick the landing. What was I talking about just then? Oh. So I said to Justin, I was like, how many of those things that you do in the show could go wrong? And he said, all of them. And I said, well, you deserve all of this gratitude from all of us because you're risking your pain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're risking your humiliation and your. You could do more bulletproof tricks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I believe that the tricks are very bulletproof, and they just maybe appear less, but they could still go wrong.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So what I'M saying is he's risking that maybe that person won't say the thing. And then the whole thing goes cool. And he has to be ready for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he keeps asking the audience to play along with him, and you never know. He told me, for example, that, like, sometimes the guy that he calls on at the end is in the bathroom.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So there's risk. And I was like, so similarly. So Justin risks more, and then the result is something you could only get from risk in the same way, risking your heart to relationship, when, of course, you. You could leave all these different things. We don't know the future.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Marriage is whatever. It's like a fun jazz, baby. It is jazz. It is jazz. But, like, we risk it for that sweet, sweet biscuit. Because when it does, it's not about working or not working, but when you're in the flow and you have friends and your. Your house is filled and. And your heart is filled, and then you go, like, yeah, this wasn't wise.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like Othello, he loved wise, not wisely, but too well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like you're not being rational.

[A]

No.

[B]

Letting people hold your heart.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But Daniel Plainview at the end of There Will Be Blood, that's a guy who goes, I can't trust people. I look at people and I see nothing worth liking is what he says. He doesn't trust them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he shouldn't. And the brain goes, you shouldn't. Let's just drill oil. And you end up in a dark mansion alone, and your own son walks out on you because you never risked it. I love how many times I've said risked it for a biscuit. Because I'm making, I think, a really nice point, but I keep saying risk for a biscuit.

[A]

No, you are. And. And again, I'm sorry that we're gonna just have to be hearing about this for the next few episodes. A Stair Pro, I think, would say, like, that risk is the juice not only of each relationship, but of life.

[B]

I was just gonna say it's the meaning of life.

[A]

Yeah. If you get rid of that risk, then you. Then we think, like, Then that's contentment, and it's like. No, that's death. It's actually actual death. That's death for a relationship.

[B]

That's when you.

[A]

For real, like. Like you can live your whole life so cozy that you fell asleep, and now you're sleepwalking through your life.

[B]

That's right. And I always and will continue to use the image of the zoo. A zoo isn't a jail, it's a nursing home. And when you're bringing a lion at stakes, it's over.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And a lion in the Serengeti looking for a gazelle, that's life. Life is risk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And life is, you know, courage and fear and uncertainty and all of these things.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And unfortunately not unfortunately. It's just I'm one of the things I'm unpacking in. You know, my middle age is like, wow. I have a very, very high. Actually it's. It's like a old but high strung alarm system.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this isn't safe. And I need to be told over and over. Good.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

It's good that it's not safe.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. That's really. That's a really quick response to that protector. When the protector comes out and is like, no, they're gonna leave. They just, you know, or they're leaving and they don't let you know, it's like, this is all good. This is exactly how it's meant to be be.

[B]

I was talking to James about that because I was like, you know, we're at this place in our. James Bashara, who made Magic mind and other things. He was on the podcast. He's great. And he was like. He said, his teacher said life is struggle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a yearning and a struggle. I think I'm getting that correct. He's like, so find something to yearn for and to struggle for, because those are inevitable. So you might like, you can rely on them. It's like another way of looking at struggle. It's like, yeah, struggle will always be there. So find the right struggle.

[A]

Yes. I think that's perfect. Also, going back to the like, you know, building a case against people who hurt you, I sort of was realizing because you know this and we agreed on this. So this isn't just like my own idea or my note to you. This is something that we both do. But Leila is old enough now that she's really listening to everything we say. And one of the things that we have to watch, what we're saying is how we are talking about our friends and how we're talking about her friends. Because just like you said, this voice that makes you cautious and. And no, I noticed that, you know about people came from your. How your mother talked about them.

[B]

Yep. And I do have that. I'll be like, well, they probably. I haven't said it verbatim, but I have to be careful to not be like, well, they got a better deal.

[A]

Yeah. And. But, but, yeah. And it can sometimes be like, you know, you like a good example because you've already have it in. Your bit is about, oh, sorry, my whole brain broke just for a second.

[B]

Oh, it's okay.

[A]

You have a bit about Leela coming home and saying that her friend teased her for having the same snack every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And your response was, well, you should say to him, why do you have the same haircut every day? And like. And then that's, you know, it's a.

[B]

Story about not parenting.

[A]

Well, but it, but people do love it. Yeah. And there's something great about it. And like, if it's a one off, then. Okay.

[B]

What I think what they like about it is that I. My impulse was pure. Exactly. But I taught her how to protect herself in the way I protected myself, which is like, well, then push them away.

[A]

Yeah. And be like, well, then you judge them before they have a chance to judge you again.

[B]

Right. Be like, it's so true. Boy, I should write another part to that bit that's like, just so we know. I don't support what I'm saying.

[A]

I mean, I don't think you have to. That's the beauty of Stand up is that it's only giving half at best, half the standard.

[B]

If you want the full story, listen to the podcast.

[A]

Yeah. But I do think that, you know, we're. What I'm just realizing is that one of the things that we do relate over and, and do as a couple is sort of shit talk. Feels strong, but it's probably accurate. Like, shit talk. People that we love. Nobody who's listening now, of course, but like, and. And I'm realizing that we do it from a different place maybe because I'll sometimes have this experience where I'm like, oh, I want to tell you this sort of like, judgmental, shitty thing about our friend because it feels good to, like, talk like that with you, but I also will be like, but I don't want it to actually change your opinion of them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it's not really changing my opinion of them.

[B]

Right. You can do that.

[A]

I love them so, so much.

[B]

You have to give me the heads up. Like, don't put this in their permanent record.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But, yeah. And I think I've done better about not. It used to be like a real one strike and you're out. Kind of like, well, this person stinks and they're gone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now when we talk, I go, I'm not. I'm not making a judgment. I'm not like casting them out of the village. I'm just saying, did you notice they eat their peas one at a time?

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so we, but that's the thing is Leela's listening to everything now and so she's going to. And I was just thinking about how beautiful it is that she doesn't do that because she's a child. But like, I don't think it's in human nature at all to be like. Yeah, but did you notice that like Sadie was like kind like sometimes she's kind of like, you know, weird about her lunch or whatever.

[B]

Same hang. Something can go wrong and then finally five minutes later, everything's fine. They don't build cases.

[A]

They don't build cases. They don't. They. So they really sort of let everybody be who they are. And they also will be like, I don't want to hang out with that person today. And it's like not a big problem. It's not like, because they're like kind of whatever. And then, and then they might want to hang out with them the next day. But there's like, it's really something that we could take a page from where.

[B]

It'S like, well, they see both and it.

[A]

Yeah, it's both. And it's like, it's like I'm going to let everybody be who they are and I'm not like sort of tallying their transgressions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And also if I don't feel like being with them, I'm not going to feel any obligation to do that.

[B]

Yeah. That's why, you know, I always want to get back to this practice. I would write down good things about people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like my love list, I would call it, because I'm very good at keeping effortless track of what you did that was not you. In fact, I'm quite bad at remembering you and Leela. But like, yeah, my. And some of my friends. Anyway, I'm just saying it's very natural for me to go like, well, they double crossed me. But then I also have to. And actually let's take the. Our little break here. But I want to briefly and without getting into too many details because talking about my therapy can be like talking about a dream or something. But I did want to talk about. I had a glorious therapy today that actually ties into what we're talking about here.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

So let's go to the break real fast. We'll be back in three American minutes and try some of these things. It's how we keep the show going and we appreciate it. Katie, roll it. Part of being a dad is losing stuff. And I recently misplaced my Apollo, my Apollo Nero, which I'm wearing right here on my wrist. I lost it because Leela found it and she hid it somewhere. I finally found it in a toy box. But what's important about that is I notice every once, like once a month for a couple days, I get to see what life is like without my Apollo Neuro. And I'm telling you the difference is huge and noticeable because an Apollo Neuro sends these almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your nervous system in the language it can understand. We're talking about somatic communication. These gentle vibrations can help you calm down, they can help you relax, they can help you feel focus. It's like a wearable hug that sends this signal to your body that you are safe and in control. It's like being held, but by something on your wrist or you can wear it on your ankle. It's like finding the fuse box for your emotions, for your feelings. We can wake up with it energy and wake up social and open. Which is usually what I have it set on when I'm doing this podcast. Clear and focused. Rebuild and recover after a workout calm, which is like the Zen setting. Unwind, which is what I put it on when I'm watching TV at night to settle into into the nighttime and fall asleep. Which is a chemical free way to lull you into gentle sleep and keep you asleep because it reruns in the night without you even needing to wake up to set it up again. Apollo Neuro is not woo woo is developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get one. Support your body, support your nervous system and support the show. Get 40 bucks off at ApolloNeuro.com weird use promo code weird. That's a P O L L O N E R O.com weird and use promo code weird. We're also brought to us I'm wearing the hat by our friends at Element. Here in the summer months you can't mess around with your hydration. And healthy hydration isn't just water. It's water and electrolytes. Back in the 90s that meant drinking basically flat soda that was filled with sugar and Calories Element is different. It's five calories. It's just what you need and nothing that you don't. It is sugar free. It is BS free and is the perfect ratio of sodium, magnesium and potassium to flood every cell with hydration, which makes me feel fantastic. And in the morning, I drink it before I have any coffee and I feel an incredible boost. Also, after any sort of workout or any sort of time in the sun outdoors, I drink one before I go on stage. I find it's really helpful for mental clarity. Keeps away cramps, keeps away fatigue. Hydration is the key element. Has become a huge part of my wellness program. They provide that perfect ratio of sodium, potassium, magnesium for health, performance and energy. And it also tastes fantastic and is wonderful on days if you fast. So use our promo code weird@drink lmnt.com weird and you will get a free sample pack of elements most popular drink mix flavors. That's citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, which is my favorite, and orange salt. You'll get two sticks of each flavor with any purchase using promo code weird go to drinklmnt.com/weird. Get that free sample pack. Support your hydration, support the show. All right, back to the episode.

[A]

All right, I just want to say I had a burp in the queue that I was gonna open because I always think it's so funny to come back. Like the first thing you hear is. And then I just chose not to and I let.

[B]

It's very nirvana to be on the show, which I like.

[A]

Yeah, man, now that makes me wish I had done it. It's just so rare you get one in the queue. Like, I can't make myself burp. So I had one in the. But then I was like, some people are genuinely as disgusted by burps as they are farts. And like, I'll say that as I get older, you're getting grossed out by burps more. I think I am too.

[B]

I think it's because as you get older, burps become like a three act play. Like when you're young, it just comes out like, oh, there was some air. And now it's like, like it's like a diagnosis. It's like there's a lot happening. So when I hear a person over 30 burp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, you gotta keep that to yourself.

[A]

It's like Leela was asking what the holes in our face were. Lila was asking this morning in the natural sunlight of the morning what the holes in our faces were. And we had to explain to her what pores are.

[B]

And she's like, why do.

[A]

Why don't I have those? And I was like, you do. You just have perfect young skin. And as you age, they get bigger.

[B]

Yeah. That made me feel old. She was like, why do you have holes in every part of your face?

[A]

And I was like, okay, okay, this is done.

[B]

I've also noticed, I think maybe I've said this on the pod before, when I reference myself as being old, people don't correct me anymore. And I'm like, I know that's like a classic. Like, it's like a greeting card. But it's true. I'm like, yeah. I'm doing it to be like, am I old?

[A]

Am I old?

[B]

And people are like, do you think I'm old? Kind of old.

[A]

Like, you're not. You're not old. Yeah. You only. You need to start only hanging out with people who are 10 years older than you. That's what I do.

[B]

Yeah. That was my strategy for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rob's not 10 years older than me.

[A]

Yeah. Any age older.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Because the people in the 50s. 50 is a, a big marker. Because, like, for example, another thing James told me, like, you got to build muscle before you're 50, because after 50, you're just kind of losing it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's that marker. And then we talked about, I think it's 40, 45. Your eyesight just starts. And I'm like, all right, this is weird.

[A]

I don't feel ready to start going down. Oh, that's what, what we were talking about, my brother and sister in law and I, when we were watching you swim is. I. I don't know if I share it on the podcast. There's plenty I could say about it, but I won't say it now, but I started taking a pole dancing class.

[B]

And you should talk about it.

[A]

It's really like giving me life and it's.

[B]

It's helping the family. We're making thousands of dollars.

[A]

It does feel nice to like. It feels like I'm going to a trade school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's just like, I have a fallback plan.

[B]

It is weird. It's like you're baking for exercise or like accounting for exercise.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Developed to make money and you give them money.

[A]

I know I give them money.

[B]

I put that ass on the street. I'm just kidding. That is not appropriate. I'm just saying. Okay, good. I'm just like, you go out and dance erotically and then you make negative. I don't I don't care how much.

[A]

No, but the. But what is interesting about it is the. The progression of what. Of how you enter into it. Like, and I think from what I've talked to my friends, now I have a friend group who I do this with. I think this is pretty common. Like, the external example of it is that everybody starts their first couple classes wearing like, bike shorts. And just like each class, they get shorter and shorter until you're wearing like basically a thong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what's happening inside is that you start. You're like, I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm going to look so foolish. And then you, like, are like, hey, that wasn't that bad. And then you start looking really good to yourself. And then it becomes very empowering. And then it naturally. Then you're like, I want to go because I want to feel hot. Like, to myself. Like, that feels.

[B]

I just had coffee with Rob Bell yesterday and. And we were talking about it and I'm very proud that I'm. I love that I. When you catch me that I just always am talking about you. But I was so loving talking specifically about this class, this pole dancing class, which there was a hump for me to get over just to normalize it. It wasn't. There's nothing that you don't know about. I was just kind of like, okay, just like your bike shorts. I was kind of like, bike shorts about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now I'm full thong about it. And like I said to Rob, I was like, it's. It reminds me very much of stand up. That. And I'm grateful that I have that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Touchstone is I'm like one of the things. And everyone knows what I'm gonna say already. But, like, you do stand up to show off. And you're like, showing yourself off in this. Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feels very familiar to me.

[A]

100%. No, you are understanding.

[B]

But afterwards you go like, I feel virile. I feel desirable.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And that is. That's why I'm listening to Esther Perel is because I feel like I'm doing it. I'm like, I used there. You. There were times, and even in our relationship, not where, like, it was a flaw necessarily in our relationship, but where I would listen to her and it would be challenging because I wasn't really. I was being too cozy and I wasn't getting this sort of.

[B]

This is it virility. You need to infuse. It's like oxygen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Into. Infused into you. Something challenging, scary, and I think that's.

[A]

What people get from, like, affairs or even open marriages is it's like another person is seeing you a new way, and that makes you feel alive and desired and.

[B]

Which is why. Yeah.

[A]

So when you do stand up, all. All these people are seeing you maybe for the first time or seeing you in this very kind of fresh way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And doing this for me is like, I'm seeing myself in a new way and my friends are seeing me in a new way, and you know what I mean? So it's. Yeah, it's. It's the same energy.

[B]

Very, very similar. And I think it's very, very important. And it helps me understand a whole slew of activities. It. I'm not putting down bowling. It could be bowling. It's like something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In your life where you do it and you go, God damn.

[A]

Yeah. And what I was gonna say is how it goes, like, from bike shorts to thong. You. It's so interesting how quickly you get how it is empowering. You're like, I feel. I feel powerful when I'm doing this. Like, it's. It's maybe because the patriarchy told me that this was my self worth. And so I'm just like going like, okay, well, then I'm gonna go for it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or it is actually just like, this is. I am. It's like the same kind of power that you have when you're on a stage with a microphone.

[B]

I would. Yeah. I. I don't know. I. I think we could leave the patriarchy out of it because bees and flowers, man. Just be a beautiful flower. It's. It's not. It's not. It doesn't have to. I understand that there is an element, obviously.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I'm just saying there's something even like. I'm sure ancient tribes that don't have all of this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cultural.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would understand and I'm sure have versions. I know they do.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Dancing by the fire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a seductive way.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That is just like, it's. It's La chaim. It's life. It's fucking.

[A]

That's right. And so it goes from feeling like. I know. I loved it. Going from, like, have, like, oh, wow. I look. I feel like. I look really great. I feel virile. And then you're like, wow, I actually feel, like, powerful. And it's funny how quickly, like, probably by my side, sixth class, I was like, yeah, I should get paid for this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you just so quickly see the train, like, where it's like, I'm Gonna take a poll class. But it's not like I'm gonna be, like, a stripper. And then, like. Not that you don't do it even for that long, and you're like, bow down. Throw your money at me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, so it's. But it's. It's been a really great thing and all of that. I wasn't even gonna go on that tangent.

[B]

I'm glad you did.

[A]

But I was gonna say going back to, like, 50. You get muscle when you're 50, because then you can't. That was before you're 50. What we were talking about. Yeah, that's what we were talking about when we were watching you swim. Is that my friend who is two years older than me, who we. I'm taking these classes with, she was like, God, I wish we had just discovered this earlier in our lives because, like, we don't have that many more years where we can do this. And I had this real, like. What was like. Speak for yourself. And I realized there's, like, this mindset that I am sort of resisting and refusing to have that I can't still get into, like, peak physical shape.

[B]

I couldn't agree more.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I would say that's one of my core tenets, is I'm like, I. I could still be. Not be in the NBA, but I'm just, like, I could still.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And not in a bad way, but. What? Don't you have a class that's taught by someone who's quite old?

[A]

Yeah, I took an aerial yoga class taught by a woman who was 78.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was so set on, like, you are only as old as you let your body become.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, just keep working your body out and it will stay young.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And I know I say this a million. But it's been really impactful to me to have found swimming. And I also feel like it's in the zeitgeist. Like, it's in the. Maybe not the zeitgeist. That's, like, culture. But, like, I feel like there's a lot of. I see a lot of divorce right now. I sound like a psychic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a lot of things ending, or you could say, being reborn. And I also see a lot of people swimming. I know that's so stupid. But, like, I saw my homeboy, Ethan Suplee, and I was like, I've been swimming. And he's like, I've been wanting to get into swimming. I said to Matt McCarthy, I was like, I've been swimming. He's like, that's crazy. I just started swimming laps at the Y and I was like, what's going on? Like, people. I don't. I really. But obviously that's just two people. But to me, that's enough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, it's in the zeitgeist. That's also a core tenet for me. If it's happening to two people, I know. It's happening everywhere.

[A]

Right. And both times you brought it up.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

But, yeah, they were thinking about it.

[B]

But I also. And I'm just like, use a snorkel if it hurts your neck. That's all I want to say. That's all I'm going to say.

[A]

And that's all you have said every episode of this.

[B]

I know, but I don't.

[A]

It's an important message. It is.

[B]

Well, I was. Again, I was just talking to a friend about this. Like, I know we've said this before, but Imma help me. And I actually get mad that people know things like, if you hurt your neck swimming, you should just use a snorkel. And they knew that and they didn't. Like, I can't tell you how many people I've said that. And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, really? Why didn't you? If it's not literally that, it's a million other things.

[A]

I have to say, it is one of the cutest things, and I never get old. Two things that I'm really enjoying about.

[B]

You love it.

[A]

We should do this more often. I'm enjoying how you're making fresh green juice again. And it makes our whole house smell fresh and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really good.

[B]

My old apartment.

[A]

And it. And it also. So, like, it just is good because it makes the whole house smell fresh, but it also. The, like, olfactory experience takes me back to when we were dating and how your old apartment smelled. And I just think it's absolutely adorable whenever I see you swimming laps in the pool with a snorkel.

[B]

Well, you. The reason I'm being the champion of it is it's like the dorkiest thing.

[A]

In the world, but it's not even. It's not dorky in the way of, like, do I need to get a belt. A belt pouch?

[B]

I could.

[A]

So that I could have my chaps. Chapstick and fiber in it. I don't know.

[B]

Maybe it is the things I would put in my belt pouch.

[A]

Yeah. Now that I say that, maybe it is in the same category, but I do think that's something I would write in the beginning of a. Of a film to instantly endear you to a character.

[B]

Yeah. Look, if I went to the. The public pool here in town and put on my snorkel, I. I would expect some comments from the other swimmers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would be in the shallow end, and they'd be like, snorkel, huh? Like, because they don't need one and because their neck doesn't hurt. So they are stronger in a sense or somethinger than a sense.

[A]

Flexier, maybe just dumber and more pain.

[B]

That's. But that's why I'm out here. Like, the things that I like that I really like. The Apollo that I'm wearing, arguably, is a dorky. You could say it's kind of dorky to wear, like, a functional appendage that people think is a watch. And that. That just makes me want to shout it even more.

[A]

It's like, I know you love it.

[B]

Who cares?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's your helps.

[A]

Your enneagram for it is you, like, stand and then. Which.

[B]

Leela, when we did Hollywood Squares, they were like. Because I. I put on, like, a suit, and they're like, are you gonna wear that? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And they're like, it's not my favorite. And I was like, good, good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which also I took it off with the suit.

[A]

So the four in the enneagram is the individualists and loves, like, little things that make them stand out like this. And we've had this discussion before where we're like, every kid is a four in some ways. So Leela's going through this too. And I'm like, yeah, her art teacher, we were talking about it. She said, this is true of every kid because Leela has, like, a scrape on her toe that she has decided is, like, past worthy.

[B]

Life and death.

[A]

Life and death. I can't do anything. I'm so sorry. I can't clean up my art supplies. My toe, you know? And this art teacher has been around the block. She's seen it all, and she's like, this happens every. Like, to every kid. This is a normal stage of development where they just start to do this kind of thing. And I wanted to be like, yeah. But her father never stopped. So this might actually just be her personality.

[B]

Yeah. No, a four is a child in that way for sure.

[A]

But also, I do think it's. Somebody was just telling me that seven. She's about to turn seven. And seven is the age where you learn that the universe doesn't revolve around you.

[B]

Yeah. I Was just thinking about that. Seven is the age where you get wounded.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the wound is like figuring out the world doesn't revolve around you.

[A]

And so it makes sense that, like, you'd be holding on to every energ injury to be like, I need extra attention, you know, because she's like, reconciling with. She doesn't get all of the attention all of the time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting.

[A]

Anyway, took us on a couple tears there. But tell us about your therapy.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for asking. I. It is. It's exactly like a dream. And I don't want to bore everyone to tears, but like doing internal family systems, which is also known as parts work, and talking to these protectors and. I don't know. I went into my session today. How often when you have nothing do you end up having the best.

[A]

Every time.

[B]

It's always, yeah. But I went in like, I. Leela took so long to get dressed to go to coffee this morning. She's a real coffee addict. I'm just kidding. But I couldn't go because it was too close to my therapy. So I ended up just kind of sitting quietly and grounding myself and going in very open heart. I just noticed I was like. My tear ducts felt very wet and full and my heart was like, heavy, not in a bad way. And I just went in and like, I saw this image of my childhood bedroom. And a lot of the therapy that I do revolves or takes place in this childhood bedroom in my mind. But it. And again, I'm tempted to tell all the details. I just don't think they'll be interesting. What ended up happening was instead of this house that I grew up in, which has only and always ever been my child self's way of showing me pain. It's like, don't forget this pain. I want you to look at this pain. And most of my therapy is just crying and feeling that those things, like how it felt to be a child at times and all this sort of stuff. This time it was the same bedroom, but, like the house was empty. And there instead of the. It was always the yellow light of my lamp. So it was always dark and the light was kind of yellow. My wall was yellow. So it was always this yellow hue. Now it was this like, twilight blue. Like when the sun's just about to set. So this most majestic twilight blue. And the house was. This had always been this place of turmoil.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Had suddenly became like a cathedral. And the light was shining in the window and I was A grown up. I was me. My child self wasn't there. My protectors weren't there. Nothing was there. I told her at the end. I was like, it was like the safest place. Like, it would have been the perfect place to nap.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because it was outside of time. It was like an expanded place. It wasn't 1986, but it wasn't 2025 either. It was just frozen.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And everything felt expanded. Like an accordion had opened. Every room was big enough to walk an elephant through. But it was also somehow. Also in proportion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now all that happened was I went into a state without. There's no hypnosis. It was just this state was beckoning me. That's what parts work is, is there's something inside you that wants to talk to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wants to show you something. So I wasn't. Willingness. She wasn't guiding me. I just said, it's weird. I'm in my childhood bedroom. And then she said, we'll go there. That's all we did. And then I was quiet for a very long time. Everything was expanded and peaceful and quiet and still. And I walked around the house. All these places where different little traumas had happened. But then I. I started seeing all these beautiful things that had happened. But it wasn't as like the mind would like to be. Like, don't forget beautiful things. It wasn't that. It was both and it was both and the whole thing was both. And it was like. And I went down. So many meals were tense in my family. So I'm at the dining room table and I could see the chairs. I couldn't have told you that I knew what the chairs looked like. But there they were. They had this red cushion and they were round. I couldn't. I didn't even know I remembered. And I'd remember the lamp above the table and I'd remember where we sat and I'd remember some tense feelings. But then I'd also remember my mom making me tuna melts and how I would sit in her chair and would watch tv. Or my mom's bedroom where she would cry and I'd have to go be with her. But also the nights we would like, snuggle and watch TV in her bedroom, like. But it wasn't going like, be grateful for the good times.

[A]

No.

[B]

That's what the head says. This was divine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This was like, I'll show you everything. And just like a movie. I'm walking around and unfrightening ghosts are everywhere.

[A]

Oh, my God. It was tears.

[B]

I know. I cried the entire time.

[A]

It's so beautiful.

[B]

It was. It was unbelievable. Just because it was a huge breakthrough.

[A]

I mean, you know, this is the thing. This is. This is. And it will be for you. It is already. But, like, the quickest way to find the squishiest part of my self and probably yours and everyone's is like. Is that realization of, like, it's all of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's okay. It's all okay. Yeah, it's all. It's all not okay. And it's all okay.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

It's just when you can really experientially, like you said, not the head being like. It's. There's this too, and there's that. Like, not the head, like experientially know that on the deepest level, it feels like the most gorgeous universal truth. Like, it feels gorgeous, doesn't it?

[B]

It's gorgeous. It's funny that you say that. I kept saying. We didn't talk a ton. I kept checking in and telling her what was happening, but she was like, what was that like? And I was like, it was beautiful. It was really. So the light, this blue light was beautiful, right? Just like a dream. I told her. I was like, you ever wake up and you're like, I just had the most amazing dream. I had this waking dream that I was not constructing. I remembered that my mom's bedroom had this little balcony. I hadn't thought about that in ages. I remember that there was a toy chest in my bedroom. Hadn't thought about that in ages. And it was all effortlessly accessible. And then I would go, that's where this unpleasant feeling happened. But it didn't disrupt the beauty. Yeah, it was a very mystical and sacred. And it felt. I kept saying, like, it was like, this feels like divine seeing. Which is. Both end.

[A]

Well, that's. I think why it's so gorgeous is if it's like seeing, for lack of a better way to put it, it's like seeing with the eyes of God. It's like seeing.

[B]

Well, that's what I wanted to say. Yeah.

[A]

See, literally seeing everything in the same light is what you were seeing.

[B]

And it felt incredible. Like I've said, doing parts work, internal family systems therapy. I always say I. I really have taken to it. But I'm like, one session has been. It's just been so transformative to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm really grateful for it. But. Yeah, that's. That's what I. That's what happened to me today.

[A]

I'm so glad you shared that. That's. That really, like, I hope it did for the listeners, too. Like, you really sort of transmitted the feeling of that. And that's such a good reminder. Like, it's like love. The only love that's worth having is the both and. Is the both and.

[B]

Yeah. And every once in a while, like, when I saw my dining room table, which is like, so much of the family tension, was when we were all together at that table. And I'd feel this, like, resistance because everything was beautiful. And then I'd say, see it? And I'd go, like, I can't. I can't look at that this way. And then as soon as I was like, horror happened here. It would then go. And tuna melts happened.

[A]

That's right. It wouldn't let you see.

[B]

It wouldn't let me see it unless I acknowledge the pain. And I just watched a movie about people who lost somebody and they were like, you have to face the loss, otherwise you'll lose all the memories of the good memories. I felt like that. It was like this. Part of me was like, acknowledge this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Again, Death of a Salesman. Attention must be paid. You have to see this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then I was like. I said this to Claudia. This is my therapist. I was like, I used to run home. I used to rush home. It wasn't just to protect my mother. That was part of my life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would sleep in and nap and play and my friends would come over and there were. I saw holidays and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Christmases and all of. Again, I completely reject. You can't be upset that you're. That you felt this because you also had this. That is the head.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This was just. I will eat it all. It was all there. And there I was outside of time. It felt. I told her. I was like. It felt like something you would do on your deathbed. It was like this, like, all encompassing vision.

[A]

Right. Well, that is literally integration.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You were integrating. Yeah, that's. It's like a. No bad parts. Well, all are welcome.

[B]

Okay, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you something then. So last week, we were. My. My protector is Daniel Plainview from There Will Be Blood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I love him very much. And we call him my Plainview and we've called him my Plainview on this show. He's fierce. People aren't safe. He's like just a mass wealth and power and keep it to yourself and stay away from everybody because it's not worth too much confusion. I look at people and I see nothing worth liking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was a wartime protector. A lot was happening, and he didn't have time for subtlety and nuance and. And he needed to do what he needed to do to get that kid somewhere he needed to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So last week, we just started finding the boundaries of my body. That's what this. I'm wearing this rubber band on my wrist, and it's to remember to just squeeze my shoulders because my shoulders swimming are the strongest part of my body. My arms and my shoulders. So I just touch them and remember that I'm a sovereign, boundaried person, that I. That I'm in here. I spend so much of my spiritual time going like, nothing's in here, and we're all one. But, like, psychologically, I'm like, I'm in here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So she's like, okay. Something very important happened is you're becoming, you know, independent. You're getting in touch with your body.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I know you've said this a million.

[A]

Please don't think this is not having that feeling.

[B]

Okay. No. I know you've been helping me with this as well. And then we. As we do with all the protectors, we go where we had done all this work with Plainview, and we're like, where would you like to be? And, like, effortlessly, I pictured this, like, kind of frontier where Plainview could use all of his skills and catch fish and cook them in a skillet and camp. He doesn't want to be in a mansion. He wants to be useful. He wants to be scrappy. And frankly, he wants to be alone, too. Like. And he's tired. He's tired of watching this kid. So I was like, let's put you here. Not even put you here. He just kind of appeared there. And the sky was this blue twilight. And I can see it, this image, the fresh air blowing. And he's just closing his eyes and he's breathing it in. And it's this blue desert. Not desert, but, you know, whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of like a There Will Be Blood kind of place. But it's blue twilight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then this week, I'm in my childhood bedroom, and the light of this blue twilight is coming through my. My. It was, like, you know, caused. Because he was able to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it was informing the past.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then I was given access because he was given a break to see clearly. Not. I had a great childhood, but not. I was always under attack.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because he could rest. So the light of his safe Place like a dream. Like he. Like he went off and became a star in the sky, but he became this light. And I was like. He didn't go away. He. He. He went. He. He's still servicing.

[A]

He's part of the whole thing.

[B]

His rest.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Was what was helping.

[A]

Yeah. It was the ripple effect.

[B]

Right. That's what I was trying to like the causality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He went to where he could catch fish and cook them and be happy. And then my childhood home got flooded with the light of his happy place.

[A]

That's right. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. And it's so beautiful. It's so.

[B]

I'm sorry, Val. We're out of time.

[A]

It gets me every time. But that was. It's just so much. I stand by this. I don't think this is justifying it, but even if it is, who cares? The cares. I like that aspect of this reality. I'm saying yes to the aspect of reality that is like the. The. This is so much richer. Because of the pain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I think the type of joy and love and inspiration that you and I are feeling right now on that. It has incorporated the horror.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of reality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is so much better, richer, more interesting than if we lived in Barbie land.

[B]

Right. Exactly. It's funny that you say that, because I was like, why not just start life in heaven? Like, why not just start united with the one? Why do this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like all of these risks. The risk of having friendships. The risk of doing a magic trick that could go wrong.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

You know, it's like that's. It's a striving and a struggle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the point that heaven. And it was like a heavenly place. My childhood house. I said to her, this is my favorite place. I'm in my favorite place. And I don't mean my childhood house.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that way of seeing was my favorite place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I could see my childhood house that way. And like.

[A]

Yeah. It's just so much more beautiful because of the things that happened in that house.

[B]

Thank you. I lost my. That heaven that I experienced. This empty, quiet, peaceful, blue lit, twilight house was only accessible by going through a type of hell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I don't mean to say. Please don't under. I understand there's greater pain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm not saying it was hell.

[A]

I'm just.

[B]

But I'm saying, like, yes.

[A]

Your. Yes. Your pain is your pain. Yes.

[B]

Going through that pain opened up this whole. And then as I've always. As I'M always saying, like, hopefully people are getting value out of hearing this. And it's like, what use are you to everyone unless you can kind of talk about processing your pain and working through it?

[A]

And absolutely, you were of great use to me today by sharing that.

[B]

Well, that's. And what use are you in Barbieland?

[A]

Right, Right, Exactly. It's sort of like, yeah, if we all lived in heaven and everything was perfect, we would see people dancing and be like, yeah, of course, let's. Great. But we live in a reality where there is war and miscarriages and death and the. The most horrific things we can think of. And people still dance. They go to dance classes. They dance for each other. They dance on parade floats. Like, we're still doing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's stunning. I just can't get over it. I think it's the most beautiful thing.

[B]

Well, having been to that place, that's, like, earned on the other side of all of this. I'm not saying I'm like, I don't know where I'm at in my therapy, meaning maybe that was the grand finale. But there were parts recently where I was like, I can't do this anymore, where it would lay out the pain on a table and be like, we have to look at this. And Plainview was there, and he's like, to what end? He was furious that we were dredging things up, of course. And now he lives in paradise.

[A]

Yeah. And he is making.

[B]

He's making a fish. He's cooking a fish, and he's breathing fresh air. And it was like, we're. We're actually doing this to free both of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to. To. To the grand finale of it all. Like, I know you know this, but I was already. Before you were going to say that. I was already going to say part of integrating is also integrating that it's not linear and that, you know, your next session, it could be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whatever it is. And integrating that into it, too, which really feels like freedom, where you're like, right. This doesn't have to go any sort of sort of way. Whatever way it goes is right.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's why it's written on my mirror. It's about spiritual things. But it says, I'm sure, and I'm sure we can hold it when we're not sure.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

But what's weird about Parts Work Therapy is we've established these locations, and there's three major locations. And if you just say the parlor to me. Yeah, I know what it is. And I'll start not right now, but, like, if I really embody what it means to be in this location.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The parlor is where it's just this place of unconditional love, and it's where everyone's true self goes to kind of smile at each other in between. You ever been at a party and you see someone you used to know and you smile at them in this knowing way, and they smile by. It's all you do. It's like the true self smiles at itself in the parlor. And then. And now I have the blue house. And I'm like. What I'm saying is these touchstones when I'm.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Mixed up. That's what I mean. I'm sure. But. And I'm sure we can hold it when we're not sure. And luckily, I have locations that I can feel that are reminders.

[A]

You've created. You found these resources, and now you are resourced. That's if there is a goal of therapy or trauma work. It's just that it's just being resourced. It's not never being triggered again. It's not. Not experiencing old feelings and old patterns and getting kind of lost and confused. It's just knowing that when that happens, you are resourced. You have the resources to move through it. Last time, I'll say this name, but Esther Perel had a great little. It was like, such a little moment, but I was like, oh, I'm putting that in my pocket, where she was helping someone through. Like, this person had experienced abuse, and it was affecting her current relationship. And the woman was crying, and she was like, it's just. Just. I thought I had moved on from this. And she said, what does move on mean? This is such an American phrase. And she's like, what does that even mean, move on? And it's like. But it was so liberating to be like, yeah, that. That is the word of somebody who is trying to bypass all of this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just be like, get going, be productive, move forward. And it's like, that's not helpful. That's not realistic.

[B]

Sorry. I love that you brought that up because I'm reading Cherished Belonging. It's Father Greg's fourth book. Yeah, it's his fourth book, Father Greg Boyle. It's unbelievable. I absolutely love it. Audiobook. He's so good at reading it, performing it. But he says, we don't move on. We move through. Or maybe he says, we move with. And he says, and that's the image of the wounded Christ he's like, that's why that resonates with us. He's like, he's wounded and he's moving forward. Like the Jesus carrying his cross.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's like, you don't get over it.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

It's like that's not how it works. You find a way to move with it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then why I love those books is they're over and over, these unbelievable stories of people's trauma bringing us together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And why would I relate so hard? I don't. I'm not from, you know, east la. I'm not in a gang. But like I relate so hard to every single one of them.

[A]

Absolutely. We're all sort of collecting this stuff. Like this is. Again, sorry. It's like to take it back to pole dancing for a second. There's something so profound about pole dancing in this body that I currently live in with my other friends who most of which have had kids, some of them somewhat recently. And like we are in our third, you know, our middle aged bodies. And I was like, they, these bodies are so stunning to me because they are perfect external representations of our insides where it's like some of us have C section scars. We all have extra fat deposits somewhere like specific, you know, like we have soft supple skin now. Like we shouldn't look like Barbies because that's not reflective of all the. That we have gone through internally. Like it's like this is, this is well earned.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That we are going through this life collecting these wounds and then these experiences of transforming these wounds and then like holding our pain, holding the fear that our kids will be okay. Like all this stuff that we're holding and it's, it's like making our skin thinner. Like literally as you age, your skin gets thinner and softer and suppler. It's like we are learning through these wounds to become softer. Opener thinner. Spread like, you know what I mean? Spread out. Like feeling it all. Feeling more, Feeling more. Because we trust the process of feeling. Now we don't have to become hard bodied against the world. Like we aren't scared to feel. It's very cool.

[B]

It's beautiful.

[A]

Val, can I read this poem that is a little more apropos of your blue lit house. Childhood house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we can end.

[B]

It's perfect.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. It's called Little Things by Sharon Olds. And if you follow, poetry is not a luxury. Then this came on your feed yesterday too.

[B]

You mean the Bush song? Little Things it all, it all, it all. It all it all it all it all it all.

[A]

What if I just read those lyrics?

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Liddal. Lidal. Lidal.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

All right. Little things. After she's gone to camp in the early evening, I clear our girls breakfast dishes from the rosewood table and find a dinky crystallized pool of maple syrup. The grains standing there round in the night. I rub it with my fingertip as if I could read it, this raised dot of amber sugar. And this time when I think of my father, I wonder why I think of my father. Of the Vulcan blood red glass in his hand or his black hair gleaming like broken open coal. I think I learned to love the little things about him because of all the big things I could not love. No one could. It would be wrong too. So when I fix on this image of resin or sweep together with the heel of my hand a pile of my son's sunburned peels like insect wings where I peeled his back the night before camp, I am doing something I learned early to do. I am paying attention to small beauties, whatever I have. As if it were our duty to find things, to love, to bind ourselves to this world.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah, that's it. My eyesight's getting bad. I need to get glasses, you know. 46, 36.

[B]

John B. Sale.

[A]

It's John B. Hoist up the John B. Sale host. Hoist up the John B's. It's like it's possession.

[B]

John B. No. Yeah, it's John B's sale.

[A]

What?

[B]

Sloop John B. I don't know.

[A]

Game around.

[B]

Blah, blah, blah. Beach boys. Dark story of a disastrous sailing voyage on a small boat named the Sloop John.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh. Sloop John B. So there's a sail named after a disaster on a boat. All right, that was wonderful, Valerie. Thank you.

[A]

And Valerie, thanks for listening. Keep it crispy.