We Made It Weird #221

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Made It Weird #221 with Pete Holmes

Release Date: July 11, 2025

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Introduction

In episode #221 of "We Made It Weird," hosts Pete Holmes, Valerie, and Janie engage in a heartfelt and introspective conversation. Skipping the standard advertisements and introductory banter, the trio delves deep into personal experiences, relationships, and transformative therapy sessions, offering listeners a rich tapestry of emotions and insights.

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Reflections on Friendship and Relationships

The episode opens with Valerie reminiscing about past friendships and the dynamics that shape our relationships. She shares anecdotes from her college days, highlighting moments of vulnerability and the complexities of maintaining deep connections.

• Valerie discusses the evolution of her friendship with Earn:
  "[05:18] Valerie: What do you mean you earned Rachel and you were just like close friends?"

• She touches upon the challenges of jealousy and commitment in friendships:
  "[27:35] Valerie: She's giving it all to them, and there's this part of me that worries if there's any lack."

Attachment Styles and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the conversation centers around attachment styles, particularly anxious attachment and avoidant attachment. Pete and Valerie explore how these styles influence their interactions and emotional well-being.

• Pete introduces the concept of attachment styles:
  "[33:16] Pete Holmes: No, no. It's either anxious attached or avoidant attachment."

• Valerie reflects on her mother's influence and its impact on her own attachment:
  "[34:21] Valerie: My mother taught me to guard myself because the world isn't safe."

The Journey Through Therapy and Internal Family Systems

Valerie shares a transformative therapy session, providing listeners with an intimate look into Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. She describes visualizations and emotional breakthroughs that have reshaped her understanding of self and healing.

• Valerie recounts her visualization of her childhood bedroom transforming into a cathedral:
  "[70:42] Valerie: It was like this majestic twilight blue, and the house became a cathedral."

• Highlighting a breakthrough moment in therapy:
  "[73:12] Valerie: It felt like divine seeing, both beautiful and encompassing."

Embracing Vulnerability and Life's Risks

The hosts discuss the inherent risks in relationships and life, emphasizing that embracing vulnerability leads to deeper connections and personal fulfillment.

• Pete draws parallels between pole dancing and relationships:
  "[56:35] Pete Holmes: Like, this is something I would write in the beginning of a film to instantly endear you to a character."

• Valerie emphasizes the importance of risking for meaningful relationships:
  "[40:08] Valerie: Life is risk. Courage and fear and uncertainty are all part of it."

Integrating Pain and Finding Beauty in Struggles

A recurring theme is the integration of past pains and traumas to find beauty and meaning in one's life. Valerie shares her experiences of reconciling with her past and finding peace through therapy.

• Valerie speaks about moving through pain rather than moving on:
  "[90:17] Janie: Yeah.
  [90:18] Valerie: And he says, 'we move through,' not 'move on.'”

• The hosts reflect on the necessity of acknowledging both joy and horror in life:
  "[83:13] Valerie: It felt like divine seeing... like something you would do on your deathbed."

Poetic Interlude: "Little Things" by Sharon Olds

Towards the end of the episode, Pete reads a poignant poem, "Little Things" by Sharon Olds, resonating with the episode's themes of cherishing small moments amidst life's complexities.

• Pete introduces the poem:
  *"[93:08] Valerie: Yeah."

• He reads the poem, capturing its emotional depth:
  "[93:10] Valerie: ...I am paying attention to small beauties, whatever I have.
  [...]"

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Key Takeaways

1. The Complexity of Relationships: Deep friendships and romantic relationships are fraught with emotions like jealousy, commitment, and the struggle between dependence and independence.

2. Understanding Attachment Styles: Recognizing one's attachment style—whether anxious or avoidant—can provide clarity in personal interactions and emotional responses.

3. Therapy as a Tool for Healing: Internal Family Systems therapy offers a pathway to integrate past traumas, leading to personal growth and emotional resilience.

4. Embracing Vulnerability: Taking emotional risks in relationships enhances connections and fosters a sense of fulfillment.

5. Finding Beauty in Struggle: Acknowledging and integrating life's pains can lead to a richer, more meaningful existence.

6. Appreciating the Little Things: Small moments of beauty and connection are invaluable in navigating the complexities of life.

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Notable Quotes

• Valerie on the nature of tears during vulnerable moments:
  "[01:14] Valerie: These tears are not of sadness, but of hope."

• Pete on the importance of risk in relationships:
  "[41:29] Pete Holmes: Risk is the juice not only of each relationship but of life."

• Valerie on moving through pain:
  "[90:32] Pete Holmes: Move through, not just move on."

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Conclusion

Episode #221 of "We Made It Weird" offers a deep dive into the intricacies of human relationships, personal growth, and the transformative power of therapy. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Pete Holmes, Valerie, and Janie provide listeners with both emotional resonance and practical insights, making it a compelling episode for those seeking understanding and connection in their own lives.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. You made it with.

[Valerie]

You made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Valerie]

You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos? Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

This is like. Like an epic.

[Valerie]

This is an epic. That's why it's 90 minutes long.

[Pete Holmes]

What time is it?

[Valerie]

Okay, we both have tear marks down our faces, and I know I always say this, but this is a special and wonderful chat, and I'm so glad everybody is here. This is. We made it weird. This is the Friday edition of the show where Val and I catch up. And I'm so glad we did. It's been a while, and I think this was better for the little break we just took.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I agree.

[Valerie]

So the first half, a little bit more light. Light, as I always give this warning. And then the second half is just.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow, really go in really good. And you did some good vulnerable shares there.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I would say. It's not like a trigger warning kind of situation. It's just beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Beautiful. It's like very. It's not. It would. They were tears not of sadness.

[Valerie]

These tears are not of sadness, but of hope.

[Pete Holmes]

Mr. Frodo and joy.

[Valerie]

Beautiful stuff. So we're so glad you're here. Only a couple things to plug. I'm in Houston currently. If you're listening to this. Not right now, but I will be if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, come see me in Houston. And then all of the tour dates are on petehomes.com we just added Chicago. Boston is on there. Come on out. I love this new hour. I hope you can be there.

[Katie]

And we're just going to play a couple ads and then we're going to drop right in. The ads are for things we actually.

[Valerie]

Use and actually love, so, Katie, roll it. This episode is brought to us by.

[Katie]

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[Valerie]

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[Katie]

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[Valerie]

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[Katie]

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[Valerie]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

You.

[Katie]

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[Valerie]

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[Katie]

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[Valerie]

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[Katie]

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[Valerie]

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[Valerie]

Get together and thank me later.

[Katie]

Dadgrass.com weird use promo code weird for 20% off. All right, we're so glad you're here.

[Valerie]

For a very Very memorable and special and transformative. We made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie, get into it.

[Valerie]

11:55Am on a Wednesday. It's the early part of July. Sitting here with Valerie and Janie. Valerie, how are you? You're wearing a blue. Kind of a sailor girl. Kind of a. Kind of a. Like a hoist nautical. The John B. Sale.

[Pete Holmes]

John B.

[Valerie]

What do you. What is it?

[Pete Holmes]

What is it? What is that?

[Valerie]

Hoist up the John B. Sale.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what they're saying.

[Valerie]

Well, full disclosure. Mecca. Like a hi. Mecca Hiney ho. I always thought they were saying Jambi.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it not? What are you saying?

[Valerie]

What's funny is I'm saying it as if we could study it and learn it, but I don't know. So we're like looking at the wrong photograph to be like, what happened?

[Katie]

What is John B.

[Valerie]

But I kind of deliberately, vaguely saying hoist up the John B. Set. It's either John B. Yeah. Or Jambi the. Which is the indigenous word. What would you call Jambi from Peewee's Playhouse? He's a. This is when you didn't get it at Mecca. Like a high Mecca Hiney home.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I'm not as familiar. I'm like. I'm embarrassed to say this. Not as familiar with.

[Valerie]

No, you should be. I thought what you were going to say is. I'm embarrassed to say this. I'm 36.

[Pete Holmes]

So you're saying I should be embarrassed about that?

[Valerie]

No, that. That's young.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. That it's too young for Peewee.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

See, if 36, which is what you are, is old and I'm dead.

[Pete Holmes]

I did have a burn just to my brother and sister in law about you. And it feels so funny to burn someone who isn't there. Who you love. And you didn't mean it.

[Valerie]

I can't wait. It was like on the edge of my burn.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like.

[Valerie]

Wait, are you putting me on burn notice?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm putting you on burn notice.

[Valerie]

I'm about to be burned.

[Pete Holmes]

This is your burn notice.

[Valerie]

I. I feel so alive.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it really. I know you love being roasted.

[Valerie]

Well, something's about to happen, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's not gonna hurt your feelings.

[Valerie]

We can't be sure. Jaleel White is written on my whiteboard over there.

[Pete Holmes]

The point is, is that it wasn't shit talking. Shit talking would be like hurtful. Hurtful. This is like, why would I even say that? He's not here to receive the burn and it's not true. The only reason you would ever say something like this is to like kind of jab the person who's there and you weren't there. So it was. It was like a funny new phenomenon. But Derek and my brother and my sister in law and I were sitting at the table watching you swim.

[Valerie]

Oh, no.

[Pete Holmes]

And, oh.

[Valerie]

I only say oh, no because the times people have been like, we were watching you walk across the quad.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no.

[Valerie]

Usually leads to someone going, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Like, that's the sound we heard in our heads.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it actually has is because I can't exactly remember the details. I'm going to lean it towards, like, maybe it was this which is favorable to balance out the burn. We were watching you do your laps and I. We were talking about how, like. Like, are we just at the stage of our life where every time we exercise it just destroys our bodies and we're just always going to be in pain if we're exercising. And I was like. And it somehow led to like, Pete's been swimming every day and he's. And I said, and he's older than all of us. He's older than God, I think. And it was like. It just felt weird to say that when you couldn't hear it and you never would know about it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

That's fun. You know what I mean? I like it. I was ready for like, why does Pete look like he's drowning? Like, he looks like he's seeing survival right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Janie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

That would have been like roasty.

[Valerie]

No, I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not.

[Valerie]

I'm so glad. If you had said that, I might have become self conscious, which I'm glad it did.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, starting it with we were watching you swim does set it up. It would have been a worse thing.

[Valerie]

I hinted at it, but that was a memory. Was. I've told this before. It was in college. My friends Jamie and Kim were in the car and they were in the car first and I was walking towards the car. From a mall.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And they saw me walking and they.

[Valerie]

Were laughing at how you were walking. This isn't that. These are good people.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Like, these are. I'm still friends with Jamie. I lost touch with Kim. But like.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Walking and they saw me and they were dying laughing.

[Pete Holmes]

And how you were walking.

[Valerie]

That I walk like an oaf.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't.

[Valerie]

This was around the time when I wrote the song who could love a monster? Oh, my God. I know. No, that I was going for a laugh. I was going for a laugh, but I went with my Acoustic guitar into the dugout of a abandoned. Not abandoned, but an inactive baseball field and sang in earnest. Who could love a monster because I was so.

[Janie]

Okay, the rich. You know what? I.

[Valerie]

But I'm not. I knew people. Look, no one deserves to feel like an ogre, but that's not even the right burn. Like, we could have been, like, clammy and loud. Like, that's. I'm more clammy and louder than you are. Than I am. Like, you rang?

[Pete Holmes]

You don't have enough body hair to be like, an ogre.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I want like. Like a thick. I want a disproportionately large head. I want a T. Robbins, honestly. Yeah, T. Rob's is rocking the. Oh, he's ogre chic.

[Pete Holmes]

Ogre chic. Yeah, I. Yeah, I think like a Seth Rogen when I think ogre.

[Valerie]

Seth Roger.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, honestly, Seth Roger kind of.

[Valerie]

Looks like you're the queen of my heart.

[Pete Holmes]

Looks like Shrek.

[Valerie]

You're the queen of my heart. I. I was like, you're not going to acknowledge Seth Roger. And then you just. You're scratching your cute little eyebrow and you went, seth Roger. Because you know your boy is swimming in the sea of rifts, and if you don't throw me a life preserver, I might just keep riffing until I die.

[Pete Holmes]

I need to throw you a John B. We still don't know what that is.

[Valerie]

Hoist up the John B. I think it might be John B. Like, the sail was named after a sailor named John B.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good guess.

[Valerie]

We're gonna look it up.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but only at the end.

[Katie]

All right, I'll write that down.

[Pete Holmes]

I love you. I love you too, John B.

[Janie]

The.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, the. The how can you love a monster thing. I've heard that story. You've told it on the podcast, and this is really the first time it was hitting me, the detail that you went to, as you call it, an inactive basement. Only what somebody calls it who doesn't.

[Valerie]

Play baseball, but it was a night field.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, that is such a hey there, Delilah moment. Like, how much Just, like, speak more about the baseball field. Like, how much did that. Were you going like, this is it, man. Like, I'm in college. I got an acoustic guitar.

[Valerie]

I'm like, it just feel like I caught up to my life. And I think you'll know what I mean by that. It's like, you know when you're. When you accidentally. You paused a movie and then you accidentally fast forwarded, like, if you're on an apple Remote. We're brought to you by Apple. I have to say this. We're a Roku family, but I have to say Apple remote. But I'm imagining other remotes. Non Apple remotes also make it kind of easy to fast forward. So there's the line where you are in the movie, a white vertical line on the timeline. And then you accidentally. And now you're either way too far forward or way too back.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

When I was in college and thinking. And I did think things like, look at me. I'm. I'm 19 or 20 years old. I'm in a baseball dugout with my guitar, writing a song about how no one will love me.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Yes. And I felt behind that line like somehow I was. I hadn't yet caught up to where I actually felt like I should have been. I felt like I was buying time. I wasn't fully there all of the time. I was like, I guess I'm kind of doing this. But boy, I. I guess looking back, I would be like, we're doing this. But I know this is just kind of like a purgatory period where I'm waiting, waiting for my real life to begin. Ah.

[Pete Holmes]

As Colin Hay would say, so interesting.

[Valerie]

Okay, I didn't go like, this is it. I'm here. Some people did. Yeah, some people fucking rocked college. Yeah, they wore like those crew, like those roll turtleneck sweaters and fucking had a carabiner with keys. This was my college. And they wore Birkenstocks with like puffy soft socks underneath. And they were the ra. But they were lax and they wrote poems and that was their time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we.

[Valerie]

We talk a lot about peaking in high school, and there's nothing wrong. It's so judgmental to say you peaked in high school, but some people did peak in college. I definitely, definitely, definitely did not peak in. Peak in college. I didn't feel like myself.

[Pete Holmes]

When do you. Do you think you peaked or have you yet?

[Valerie]

That's a. That's a great question. Let me put a bit in that, because I really want to talk about that, but I also want to say that I used to go to that dugout and smoke cigars.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, cigars.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That seems.

[Valerie]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't you see how in search of an identity, I was like, am I a cigar guy? Yeah, I liked that. I could. Could smoke a cigar. A lot of, like, of the more frail. What is the word?

[Pete Holmes]

Ogre.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. The inactive leogre. Yeah, people. But like the constitution.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yes. A frailer Constitution.

[Valerie]

Frail seems too mean.

[Katie]

I just like that I had the.

[Valerie]

Constitution that could, like when it came to drinking, I could drink like straight liquor and I could smoke cigars. Just a little bit of Teddy Roosevelt.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And so I was like, maybe because I can do this, I should do this.

[Pete Holmes]

Those are like the bulbous nose activities.

[Valerie]

You. I can't even believe that made sense to you. If there's ever been a talent, it's all, it's all been yours the whole time. My. My beloved Uncle Larry smoked cigars and drank liquor. He stopped drinking, I think. Yeah, of course he did. He. He stopped drinking. But when he was drinking, pretty sure it was the, the liqueurs.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And the cigars. And he looked like W.C. fields.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

He and W.C. fields obviously is an even better example because everyone will know what I'm talking about.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Famous bulbous nose.

[Valerie]

The bulbiest.

[Pete Holmes]

The bulbous.

[Valerie]

If you plant that nose, a tulip grows. That's how bulbous is his nose. Sometimes we read Shel Silverstein poems and we'll play a game where I'll read a real one and then I'll make one up. This is my proudest moment we've done.

[Pete Holmes]

On this podcast with the fake songs.

[Valerie]

With fake songs. But it turns out if I'm reading Shel Silverstein poems and you prime me in that voice.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I can make up a Shel Silverstein poem. That's. I. I'm gonna say not. Let's just say this. I'll just say what happens. You guys guess real a lot.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I'm proud of this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You are very good at it. It's really, it is your skill. Like when we watch a show, I.

[Valerie]

Can talk like you just talk.

[Pete Holmes]

Will talk like them instantly.

[Valerie]

Right, right, right. And it's.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, I think that's like such a good. Obviously that's a great skill for like a television writer that you can go into different writers rooms and write in the voice of that show.

[Valerie]

Right. This is just too self serving even for me. And I love it. But I did want to flex just ever so slightly that it is impressive. I fool my six year old daughter with poems all the time. And you.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, well, let's go back to college for a minute because Dugout.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Cigars. Bulbous.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I was asking that like how much? And that's an interesting answer. Like, like I'm here I am playing acoustic guitar in a baseball field and that to me just feels really a little bit high school, but like very much what college was for me. I think I had. I remember, like, my senior year being with my best friend Rachel, who I spent my entire high school life with. Like, we were like. She. She helped me learn how to be in a monogamous relationship because it was really just the two of us.

[Valerie]

That's so funny. We could unpack that, but we won't. But I'm just saying, like, those close friendships are kind of dry runs for what it might be like to be in a romantic relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally.

[Valerie]

Certainly we're not the first to notice this, but me and Earn. So Rachel is your boy Earn. Or burn. Or burn notice.

[Pete Holmes]

She's my girl Earn.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Sorry. Girl Earn. Gurn. Gurn. Blanston. Just a riff machine. So you're Grin Blanston is Earn. But, like, the jealousy. Like, I remember. We've talked about this, too. When Earn got a girlfriend, I was like, but you're seeing me. Yeah, like, it wasn't. If it was, I'd be proud and loud. Yeah, but we weren't romantic or sexual or sensual, but we were committed to each other.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, totally. And I was the one that got a boyfriend. First brag, married that boyfriend, then got another husband.

[Valerie]

Can I talk to you for a second?

[Pete Holmes]

Just, like, it's like. Because it's not really about a brag. It's like, it's cool that I had a boyfriend, but it was like. Yeah, but then you married him, and you've been married your entire adult life.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Yeah, I understand.

[Valerie]

I understand.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, but she. I was the first one of us that got a boyfriend. And I remember her just being really sweet and honest, like, about how, you know, hard it is. Like, she's like, I'm happy for you, and it's just, like, hard.

[Valerie]

I should have done that. I instead, like, Daniel Plainview, went to my room and piece by piece, built a case against him and was, like. It was just so much. It was sadness. But I didn't lash out at him or anything.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

But I'm sure I, like, teased him more or like, there was no.

[Pete Holmes]

There was some aggression coming.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And I wish I had just been like, this is hard for me.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No, she was a very good friend about it, but I. But I couldn't bear. It was hard for me, too. It was like I was mourning our relationship.

[Valerie]

Can I. Oh, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you say.

[Valerie]

Are you sure?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I mean, I'm. I have, like.

[Valerie]

Oh, you have another thing. Great little sidebar. Earn dated. I think she was from Brazil or something, but, like, a South American girl, young lady. And I'll keep the details out. Who then? Who cares? Like anyone up to speed with 1997 Lexington High School social dynamics is listening.

[Pete Holmes]

There's somebody flipping through a yearbook.

[Valerie]

Go on. All I want to say that this is like, as I'm always doing with you, recognizing just your true talent. I think Earn and maybe myself, I forget who came up with it. I think it might have been together. Who cares? We used to joke his South American girlfriend's father, and maybe I've told this before, was very, very old school. Protective, like insane. Like, no, they can't kiss, they can't hold hands, and big deal. Big deal. Old escuela. Escuela no nuevo.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he was an old escuela. Abuelo.

[Valerie]

Abuela is grandmother. But I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

I knew that. But I wanted the rhyme to work.

[Valerie]

Anyway. We used to joke that. He used to say, maybe I've said this before, but it deserves a retell. If you touch her, I will kill you. And then we would go transversely. If you kill her, I will touch you. Which I know in 2025, comedy, comedy, even. Even just comedy as a whole has advanced. Like, we know how to flip ingredients in 1996.

[Pete Holmes]

And like high school boys.

[Valerie]

And Earn was the one that went transversely.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course.

[Valerie]

He was like, he came up with the transitive property. Property transversely. If you kill her. I'm already laughing. I will touch you is dead.

[Pete Holmes]

So good.

[Valerie]

Dead funny.

[Pete Holmes]

I know we've noticed this before, but like, you, you know, there were 10 years. It was 10 years in between. But if. If you and Earn had met, Rachel and I. Yeah.

[Valerie]

We would have become a weird quad.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, a weird quad.

[Janie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

We were just telling nerdy jokes like that. Only to each other as well.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We, like, we called each other Poncho and Don Quixote.

[Valerie]

Well, we Poncho and Don Quixote. Which one were you? Poncho?

[Pete Holmes]

No, I was Don Quixote.

[Valerie]

Nice. I've always wanted to do the literary classic.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you. Rachel thought of that. I mean, we thought of each other's nicknames.

[Valerie]

Well, Earn and I called each other Rune. Air Run. Air. Rune. Rune.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And then I just, because it rhymed, became Toon. But I was more like a cartoon, I guess. So. Rune E. Tune. And then I used to make a whole series of fake video games that I would draw the. The, Like, I would map out. Like, what is the game? What does the interface look like? What's the play like called Rooney Tune. E being the Spanish word for. And Rooney Tune Run. And it Was spelled R U N with a accent over the U. Not exact rune E. And I think. Yeah. Tune was T U, N. Wow. With an accent over the U. Maybe an umlaut, maybe a different accent. So it was Rooney tune. And I used to make planning them. I used to make video games. I program the video game. And I'm going to say it right now. What a shame. I had the satisfaction of hand building a video game. And now Lila, when she's in, her twins will just be like, probably have some AI make it for her. Yeah, it'll probably be awesome. But, yeah, I did it the old fashioned way.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Valerie]

All right, so something lost there, Rachel.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, so Rachel and I really sort of had. This is why I love the movie Booksmart. We really, like, related to that because, like, there it was, like, the end of our senior year, and I remember a moment where we were, like, laying on my car. My. At that point, I had a Chevy Malibu in 1989. No, that was the year I was born. 1981 Chevy Malibu. And we were laying on the hood of my car and I was like, I think we did it wrong. Like, and I remember being like, I just wish we had, like, gone to more, like, bonfires on the beach.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I just was like, I wish we had not just, like, gone to your house every weekend and rented movies.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Blockbuster movies.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, watched, like, IQ with.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, you know, Meg Ryan and whatever.

[Valerie]

I relate. We're the same. I don't know, maybe we're an argument. We're certainly an argument for find someone who's incredibly similar to you.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because we still are living that blockbuster life. And I never go, like. And not to brag, but we get invited to, like, premieres and stuff. I've never once been like, we should go to this premiere.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Never once. And it's an echo of the high school boy. That was like, did you know they're having a kegger down by Nolty Quarry or whatever.

[Janie]

Right.

[Valerie]

Named after Nick Nolte. And I'd be like, that sounds like death to me.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. But we. Because we're both like that, we have to look out for that, too. Because.

[Valerie]

Yeah. When we do go to premieres, because it's something I'm in. We have a really fun time.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And because, like, that's. That's intimacy. But, like, you know, in order to keep the spark alive, you have to have, like, new experiences.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me you're listening to Esther Perel's book without telling me.

[Valerie]

That's hilarious.

[Pete Holmes]

And One of the things that keeps mentioning it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so interesting. It's not like it's just because it's so fascinating.

[Valerie]

No, I don't mean. I mean, I was literally trying to say, my love, I've noticed you have something to say about this book and what a great time here we are on the podcast. Please say it. Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it just specifically, one of the things that she says in. Is essential to like, her whole work is about how, you know, desire, need. So intimacy, intimate love needs closeness and connection and desire needs separation and tension and how it's like constantly a balance in a dance if you're in a long term relationship, to keep both.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And so can I chime in there? Maybe it's good then that I'm blindingly jealous of you being friends with anybody. I'd like to point out that in no way do I hinder you hanging out with.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you don't.

[Valerie]

In fact, I encourage it.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And this blinding jealousy is just my little secret.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yes. Except for you can't hide your feelings, so everybody knows about it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But you don't act. You don't like.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're not possessive. You just live with the jealousy of it. And I think, yes, that's nice.

[Valerie]

I live with it.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I'm not proud of it and I don't think it's good. But I will say it leads to tension in the good way.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

If you're with your friends and I see how fiercely you love them, unfortunately, there's a part of me that I'm not proud of, but I'm also not ashamed of. That is just sort of like, if she's giving it all to them, will there be any. There's like a lack.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Mentality.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

She's giving it all to them.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like you are dealing with the challenges of polyamory without any of the perks for either of us.

[Valerie]

But no, it's true. Because you love like. Like a deep lesbian relationship with your girlfriend.

[Pete Holmes]

I think no.

[Valerie]

Deep lesbian relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

No. I think what's happening there is that. I'm just kidding.

[Valerie]

That is when you're close.

[Pete Holmes]

That is female friendship in its purest form. It's just sadly because probably because of patriarchy, men don't have an equivalent with their relationships. So men see female intimacy and you're right. What are you? Les is. It's like, what are you?

[Valerie]

Les's.

[Pete Holmes]

This is available.

[Valerie]

What a hard word to say.

[Pete Holmes]

Les's.

[Valerie]

Yes, that's True, but. Boy, that stinks. That. That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but that's. But there. But it's. It's available. It's just.

[Valerie]

And my closest guy friend is moving to Denver.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Valerie]

I've put in moving years of work.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. The la.

[Valerie]

Tonight is our last hang.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. So sad.

[Valerie]

And we hang out and we share vulnerabilities and we laugh.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but see, you know, it's possible and you can see. Still do it with that.

[Valerie]

Yeah. But you want to talk to this part of me.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Look what happens.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I see. Yes.

[Valerie]

So don't do it. You know who invented marriage? A guy. For sure.

[Janie]

Well, yeah.

[Valerie]

No, I know, but this is me figuring this out for the first time. Let. You'd think it's the girl. I want a pretty dress and a cake and everyone to clap. That's a concession. We gave you to go. Let's get the law involved.

[Pete Holmes]

Lure us into it.

[Valerie]

I want it on paper because I don't trust it.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

That's what it is. Because I'm over here going, I gave my heart to this. I'm not even. I'd tell you if I was sad. I've given my heart. And then they're just leaving.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

So then we just go like. Well, yeah. And I'm not even that wrought up about it, but it is unfortunately evidence for this protector in my. In my psyche to be like, this is why, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Sure.

[Valerie]

Say, stay close to the people that are pledged to you. Like if you. Only if you left.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I could hire a lawyer. I mean, you wouldn't come back, but there would be like, I don't know. At least it would. Attention would be paid to quote Death of a Salesman.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Like, it would be harder.

[Valerie]

This person's just leaving.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I go, like getting away with it.

[Valerie]

And there's. I have no. Like. Wow. I'm really realizing how fucking anxious. Anxious attached marriage is. It's like if you leave, you can. But there'll be a reckoning and you'll. And don't leave because you'll have all your stuff.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Half of it is mine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[Valerie]

It is the most scared thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's true.

[Valerie]

And I'm telling you, I'm a scared person. I'm like, I love that we're all sealed up. Can there be like a wax seal on our marriage?

[Pete Holmes]

This is another. A stair pearl. Thing is, there's always one person in the relationship who is more afraid of being abandoned and the other person in the relationship who's more afraid of abandoning themselves? So, like. Or being trapped is another way.

[Valerie]

Well, that's exactly us.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly us. Yeah, but she was like, a healthy relationship is that they talk to you for a second. It's not that. That's not the case. Like, that those two things will always exist. It's that, like, throughout your relationship, that. That becomes more fluid, like where you switch roles throughout the relationship. So. But anyway, I do think that speaking to that part of you, you know, leaving is not the end of a relationship, of a friendship. I. I feel very. My two closest friends don't live in the same city as me. So it's just like, to consider that.

[Valerie]

I'm going like Lisa. I'm trying to figure out who they are. Never mind. Let's not do it.

[Pete Holmes]

But Lisa is one of them.

[Valerie]

And then for all of those hundreds of your friends listening. Yeah, maybe they're the other one.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe it's you. Maybe it's you. Unless you live in Ohio.

[Valerie]

Maybe they're like, but she means, like, I live in Ohio, but I'm kind.

[Pete Holmes]

Of like, like in LA all the time.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Okay, let's. Let's let them have that hope.

[Janie]

But.

[Pete Holmes]

And also, I don't think any of my friends listen to this, but I do. I just want to speak to that. Like, it's a very black and white. Like, you left and now it's over. And I wonder where that protector came up for me.

[Valerie]

Yeah, well, I know. I think I have a good guess. My mother really was, I think, anxious, avoidant, maybe?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no. It's either anxious or avoidant.

[Valerie]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was anxious attached or anxious avoidant.

[Pete Holmes]

It's anxious attached or avoidant attachment.

[Valerie]

Oh, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Those are the two attachments.

[Valerie]

I. One of the most. And I. I'm not saying this to. It's not false when I say this. I. I saw an effort to protect me, and I saw, like, I'm giving you something very valuable.

[Katie]

But we've talked about this before.

[Valerie]

That my mother, who. Who did the bulk of this sort of relationship shaping and deserves a lot of credit for that. She would teach me, like, of course they didn't come to your party. They got invited to a better party.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So she kind of had that voice.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And showed me that voice.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And when Sam and Smell are leaving, those are our friends. I do. I. I find an old, old wooden ship. I find an old piece of paper, and it says that it goes like, they got a better deal. A bigger, better deal. And you can't rely on people. They will leave. And this is my mother who by the way, you know, fled Lithuania. Sure had all this loss in her life, like death and like death and lot and people that she needed were like flying. So she's like, the world isn't safe. And I just got some of that. Yeah, clearly. I'm really trying to be clear that I'm not vilifying what my mom did. She was saying, so guard yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

And then you'll notice. So now our friends that are leaving are saying, don't worry, we're going to come back in a year.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I've just been like, yeah, right, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like you can't let them.

[Valerie]

Yeah, well I can't let them have the power and go like, so you're going to be in a new city and you're going to decide in a year whether or not you want to come back. And I'm just like, I'm gonna get ahead of this now and I won't. You will. All of our friends are like, great, we'll see you in a year. And one of the things I love about them is to their faces I go, you guys aren't go back people. You'll be in Japan. And they laugh and there's a truth to what I'm saying. And then Sam, who I love dearly, will be like, I take this anger as the love that it is what he said. And I'm like, wow, I only need friends like this that see that. I'm just going, I can't believe you're leaving. I love you so much.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Valerie]

But it comes out as like, I won't be fooled again.

[Pete Holmes]

And I do. Yeah, I do think maybe the way in for this protector is probably just seeing like it's actually this is maybe the best thing that this that could happen for this protector is like this protector might not believe it until he sees. Of course it is a self fulfilling prophecy. If this protector gets to rule your whole system, then he will push people away. Anybody who leaves, he'll just end their friendship and push them away.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But if you now that you know that it's just a part of you and it's not a necessary part anymore. If he. If you just keep saying like I hear what you're saying and let's just like wait and see what happens right then continuing to have this friendship, you know, long distance, which has also happened with the gungers like you. There's other examples of this.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Might be really good. It might help him calm down.

[Valerie]

I'm with you because. And one of the reasons I think my lucky stirs. What was that?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Valerie]

I hated it.

[Pete Holmes]

Care for it?

[Valerie]

I hated it. Thankfully. Look, he's stars. E. It didn't even feel like me.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it doesn't feel like you.

[Valerie]

It's something I would say. Yeah. You had to see my face as I kind of jutted out my lower jaw going. My st. And you keep hated every part. Well, I'm trying to understand that. I want to see it. Maybe if we look at it again, we'll get it a little bit more, playback the tape.

[Katie]

But I'm so grateful that we're together.

[Valerie]

Is because I. I've seen the fruits of fruits. Fruits of this mentality. If you go, don't risk it for a biscuit. People will leave if they get a better deal, and they always get a better deal. You end up alone.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah.

[Valerie]

It's, of course, a nightmare. Of course you have two. It's funny. Justin Willman did the podcast let me see if I can stick this landing on this point. And Justin Wilman special, which is called Magic Lover, is one of the finest things I've ever seen in my life.

[Pete Holmes]

It's unbelievable.

[Valerie]

It's unbelievable.

[Pete Holmes]

I cried. I had goosebumps.

[Valerie]

I also cried. I also had goosebumps. And I've seen a lot of unbelievable magic, and it is unbelievable magic, but it's also this incredible swirl of the impossible. Meaning there's all these moments, X factor moments that involve the crowd that really keep it from getting rigid. You know, bad magic is like. And I have an envelope with a card, and, like, nothing is involved. This whole show is like Swiss cheese. There's so many holes in it where real humans at the show are influencing the show. And he's rolling with it and folding it all in, and at the end, you're just blown away that, like, life, all of this random stuff happened, and it was all used. Not an ounce of it wasn't used. It's unbelievable. Check it out. Let me see if I can stick the landing. What was I talking about just then? Oh. So I said to Justin, I was like, how many of those things that you do in the show could go wrong? And he said, all of them. And I said, well, you deserve all of this gratitude from all of us because you're risking your pain.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

You're risking your humiliation and your. You could do more bulletproof tricks.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And I believe that the tricks are very bulletproof. And they just maybe appear less, but they could still go wrong.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

So what I'm saying is he's risking that maybe that person won't say the thing, and then the whole thing goes cool. And he has to be ready for that.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because he keeps asking the audience to play along with him, and you never know. He told me, for example, that, like, sometimes the guy that he calls on at the end is in the bathroom.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Valerie]

So there's risk. And I was like, so similarly. So Justin risks more, and then the result is something you could only get from risk in the same way, risking your heart to relationship. When, of course, you. You could leave all these different things. We don't know the future.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Marriage is whatever. It's like a fun.

[Pete Holmes]

It's jazz, baby.

[Valerie]

It is jazz. It is jazz. But like, we risk it for that sweet, sweet biscuit. Because when it does, it's not about working or not working, but when you're in the flow and you have friends and your. Your house is filled and your heart is filled, and then you go like, shit. Yeah, this wasn't wise.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

It's like Othello. He loved wise, not wisely, but too well.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

It's like you're not being rational.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Valerie]

Letting people hold your heart.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

But Daniel Plainview, at the end of There Will Be Blood, that's a guy who goes, I can't trust people. I look at people and I see nothing worth liking is what he says. He doesn't trust them.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And he shouldn't. And the brain goes, you shouldn't. Let's just drill oil. Then you end up in a dark mansion alone, and your own son walks out on you because you never risked it. I love how many times I've said risk this, because I'm making, I think, a really nice point, but I keep saying risk it for a biscuit.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you are. And. And again, I'm sorry that we're going to just have to be hearing about this for the next few episodes. A Stair Pro, I think, would say, like, that risk is the juice not only of each relationship, but of life.

[Valerie]

I was just going to say it's the meaning of life.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you get rid of that risk, then you. Then we think, like, then that's contentment. And it's like, no, that's death. It's actually actual death. That's death for a relationship.

[Valerie]

That's when you.

[Pete Holmes]

For real, like. Like you can live your whole life so cozy that you fell asleep and now you're sleepwalking. Through your life.

[Valerie]

That's right. And I always and will continue to use the image of the zoo. A zoo isn't a jail, it's a nursing home. And when you're bringing a lion at stakes, it's over.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And a lion in the Serengeti looking for a gazelle, that's life. Life is risk.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And life is, you know, courage and fear and uncertainty and all of these things.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And unfortunately not. Unfortunately. It's just I'm one of the things I'm unpacking in. You know, my middle age is like, wow. I have a very, very high. Actually it's. It's like a old but high strung alarm system.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because this isn't safe. And I need to be told over and over. Good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right.

[Valerie]

It's good that it's not safe.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right. That's really. That's a really quick response to that. Protector. When the protector comes out and is like, no, they're gonna leave. They just, you know, or they're leaving and they don't let you know, it's like, this is all good. This is exactly how it's meant to be.

[Valerie]

I was talking to James about that because I was like, you know, we're at this place in our. James Bashara, who made Magic Mind and other things. He was on the podcast. He's great. And he was like, he said, his teacher said life is struggle.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

It's a yearning and a struggle. I think I'm getting that correct. He's like, so find something to yearn for and to struggle for, because those are inevitable. So you might like, you can rely on them. It's like another way of looking at struggle. It's like, struggle will always be there. So find the right struggle.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that's perfect. Also, going back to the like, you know, building a case against people who hurt you, I'm. I sort of was realizing because, you know this and we agreed on this. So this isn't just like my own idea or my note to you. This is something that we both do. But Leela is old enough now that she's really listening to everything we say. And one of the things that we have to watch, what we're saying is how we are talking about our friends and how we're talking about her friends. Because just like you said, this voice that makes you cautious and, and no, I noticed that, you know about people came from your. How your mother talked about them.

[Valerie]

Yep. And I do have that. I'll be like, well, they probably. I haven't said it verbatim, but I have to be careful to not be like, well, they got a better deal.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. But, but, yeah. And it can sometimes be like, you know, you like a good example because you've already have it in. In your bit or is about. Oh, sorry, my whole brain broke just for a second.

[Valerie]

Oh, it's okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You have a bit about Leela coming home and saying that her friend teased her for having the same snack every day.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And your response was, well, you should say to him, why do you have the same haircut every day? And like, and then that's like, you.

[Valerie]

Know, it's a story about not parenting.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, but it.

[Valerie]

But people do love it.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's something great about it. And like, if it's a one off, then. Okay.

[Valerie]

What I think what they like about it is that I. My impulse was pure, but I taught her how to protect herself in the way I protected myself, which is like, well, then push them away.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And be like, well, then you judge them before they have a chance to judge you again.

[Valerie]

Right. Be like, it's so true. Boy, I should write another part to that bit that's like, just so we know. I don't support what I'm saying.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, I don't think you have to. That's the beauty of Stand up is that it's only giving half at best, half the story.

[Valerie]

If you want the full story, listen to the podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but I do think that, you know, we're. What I'm just realizing is that one of the things that we do relate over and do as a couple is sort of shit talk. Feels strong, but it's probably accurate. Like, shit talk. People that we love. Nobody who's listening now, of course, but like, and. And I'm realizing that we do it from a different place maybe because I'll sometimes have this experience where I'm like, oh, I want to tell you this sort of like, judgmental, shitty thing about our friend because it feels good to, like, talk like that with you, but I also will be like, but I don't want it to actually change your opinion of them.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's not really changing my opinion of them.

[Valerie]

Right. You can do that.

[Pete Holmes]

I love them so much, but you.

[Valerie]

Have to give me the heads up. Like, don't put this in their permanent record.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

But, yeah, and I think I've done better about not. It used to be like a real one strike and you're out. Kind of like, well, this person stinks. And they're gone.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And now when we talk shit, I go, I'm not. I'm not making a judgment. I'm not like casting them out of the village. I'm just saying, did you notice they eat their peas one at a time?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, exactly.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But anyway, so we. But that's the thing is Leela's listening to everything now, and so she's gonna. And I was just thinking about how beautiful it is that she doesn't do that because she's a child. But, like, I don't think it's in human nature at all to be like, yeah, but did you notice that, like, Sadie was like, kind like sometimes she's kind of like, you know, weird about her lunch or whatever, same hang.

[Valerie]

Something can go wrong. And then five minutes later, everything's fine. They don't build cases.

[Pete Holmes]

They don't build cases. They don't. They. So they really sort of let everybody be who they are. And they also will be like, I don't want to hang out with that person today. And it's like, not a big problem. It's not like. Because they're like, kind of whatever. And then. And then they might want to hang out with them the next day. But there's like, it's really something that we could take a page from where it's like.

[Valerie]

Well, they see both. End it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's both. And it's like, it's like I'm gonna let everybody be who they are. And I'm not like sort of tallying their transgressions.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And also, if I don't feel like being with them, I'm not gonna feel any obligation to do that.

[Valerie]

Yeah. That's why, you know, I. I always want to get back to this practice. I would write down good things about people.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Like my love list, I would call it, because I'm very good at keeping effortless track of what you did that was not you. In fact, I'm quite bad at remembering you and Lila. But like, yeah, my. And. And some of my friends. Anyway, I'm just saying it's very natural for me to go like, well, they double crossed me. But then I also have to. And actually, let's take the. Our little break here. But I want to briefly and without getting into too many details, because talking about my therapy can be like talking about a dream or something. But I did want to talk about. I had a glorious therapy today that actually ties into what we're talking about here.

[Pete Holmes]

Cool.

[Valerie]

So let's go to the break Real fast. We'll be back in three American minutes and try some of these things. It's how we keep the show going and we appreciate it. Katie, roll it. Part of being a dad is losing stuff. And I recently misplaced my Apollo.

[Katie]

My Apollo Neuro, which I'm wearing right here on my wrist. I lost it because Leela found it and she hid it somewhere. I finally found it in a toy box. But what's important about that is I notice every once, like once a month for a couple days, I get to see what life is like without my Apollo Neuro. And I'm telling you the difference is huge and noticeable because an Apollo Neuro sends these almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your nervous system in the language it can understand. We're talking about somatic communication. These gentle vibrations can help you calm down, they can help you relax, they can help you focus. It's like a wearable hug that sends this signal to your body that you are safe and in control. It's like being held but by something on your wrist or you can wear.

[Valerie]

It on your ankle.

[Katie]

It's like finding the fuse box for your emotions, for your feelings. We can wake up with it energy and wake up social and open. Which is usually what I have it set on when I'm doing this podcast. Clear and focused. Rebuild and recover after a workout calm, which is like the Zen setting. Unwind, which is what I put it on when I'm watching TV at night to settle into into the nighttime and fall asleep. Which is a chemical free way to lull you into gentle sleep and keep you asleep because it reruns in the night without you even needing to wake up to set it up again. Apollo Neuro is not Woo woo is developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get one. Support your body, support your nervous system and support the show. Get 40 bucks off at ApolloNeuro.com weird use promo code weird. That's a P O L-L-O-N-E-U-R-O.com weird and use promo code Weird. We're also brought to us I'm wearing the hat by our friends at Element here in the summer months you can't mess around with your hydration. And healthy hydration isn't just Water. It's water and electrolytes. Back in the 90s, that meant drinking basically flat soda that was filled with sugar and calories. Element is different. It's five calories. It's just what you need and nothing that you don't. It is sugar free. It is BS free and is the perfect ratio of sodium, magnesium and potassium to flood every cell with hydration, which makes me feel fantastic in the morning. I drink it before I have any coffee and I feel an incredible boost. Also, after any sort of workout or any sort of time in the sun outdoors, I drink one before I go on stage. I find it's really helpful for mental clarity. Keeps away cramps, keeps away fatigue. Hydration is the key element. Has become a huge part of my wellness program. They provide that perfect ratio of sodium, potassium, magnesium for health, performance and energy. And it also tastes fantastic and is wonderful on days if you fast. So use our promo code weird@drink lmnt.com weird and you will get a free sample pack of elements most popular drink mix flavors. That's citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, which is my favorite, and orange salt. You'll get two sticks of each flavor with any purchase using promo code weird. Go to drink lmnt.com weird. Get that free sample pack. Support your hydration.

[Valerie]

Support the show. All right, back to the episode.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, I just want to say I had a burp in the queue that I was going to open because I always think it's so funny to come back. Like the first thing you hear is, and then I just chose not to.

[Valerie]

And I let it to be on the show, which I like.

[Janie]

Yeah, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Now that makes me wish I had done it. It's just so rare you get one in the queue. Like, I can't make myself burp. So I had one in. But then I was like, some people are genuinely as disgusted by burps as they are farts.

[Valerie]

And like, I'll say that as I.

[Pete Holmes]

Get older, you're getting grossed out by burps more. I think I am too.

[Valerie]

I think it's because as you get older, burps become like a three act play. Like when you're young, it just comes out like, oh, there was some air. And now it's like, it's like a diagnosis. It's like there's a lot happening. So when I hear a person over 30, 30 burp.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I'm like, you gotta keep that to yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like Leela was asking what the holes in our face were. Lila Was asking this morning in the natural sunlight of the morning what the holes in our faces were. And we had to explain to her what pores are.

[Valerie]

And she's like, why do.

[Pete Holmes]

Why don't I have those? And I was like, you do. You just have perfect young skin. And as you age, they get bigger.

[Valerie]

Yeah. That made me feel old. She was like, why do you have holes in every part of your face? And I was like, okay, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. This is.

[Valerie]

I've also noticed I. I think maybe I've said this on the pod before. When I reference myself as being old, people don't correct me anymore. And I'm like, I know that's like a classic. Like, it's like a greeting card. But it's true. I'm like, I'm doing it to be like, am I old?

[Pete Holmes]

Am I old?

[Valerie]

And people are like, do you think I'm old? You're kind of old.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you're not. You're not old.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You only need to start only hanging out with people who are 10 years older than you. That's what I do.

[Valerie]

Yeah. That was my strategy for a long time.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Rob's not 10 years older than me.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Any age older.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah. Because the people in the 50s. 50 is a, a big marker. Because, like, for example, another thing James told me, like, you got to build muscle before you're 50, because after 50, you're just kind of losing it.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

So there's that marker. And then we talked about, I think it's 40, 45. Your eyesight just starts. And I'm like, all right, this is weird.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't feel ready to start going down. Oh, that's what, what we were talking about, my brother and sister in law and I, when we were watching you swim is I. I don't know if I share it on the podcast. There's plenty I could say about it, but I won't say it now. But I started taking a pole dancing.

[Valerie]

Class and you should talk about it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's really like giving me life and.

[Valerie]

It'S, it's helping the family. We're making thousands of dollars.

[Pete Holmes]

It does feel nice to like. It feels like I'm going to a trade school.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Where it's just like, I have a fallback plan.

[Valerie]

It is weird. It's like you're baking for exercise or like accounting for exercise.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Like, this was developed to make money and you give them money.

[Pete Holmes]

I know I give money.

[Valerie]

I put that ass on the street. I'm just kidding. That is not appropriate. I didn't say, okay, good. I'm just like, you go out and dance erotically and then you make negative. I don't. I don't care how much.

[Pete Holmes]

No, but the. But what is interesting about it is the, the progression. Of what. Of how you enter into it. Like, and I think from what I've talked about to my friends, now I have a friend group who I do this with. I think this is pretty common. Like, the external example of it is that everybody starts their first couple classes wearing, like, bike shorts. And just like each class, it gets shorter and shorter until you're wearing, like, basically a thong.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And what's happening inside is that you start. You're like, I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm going to look so foolish.

[Valerie]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you, like, are like, hey, that wasn't that bad. And then you start looking really good to yourself. And then it becomes very empowering. And then it naturally. Then you're like, I want to go because I want to feel hot. Like, to myself. Like, that feels.

[Valerie]

I just had coffee with Rob Bell yesterday and. And we were talking about it, and I'm very proud that I'm. I love that I. When you catch me, that I just always am talking about you. No, but I was loving talking specifically about this class, this pole dancing class, which there was a hump for me to get over just to normalize it. It wasn't. There's nothing that you don't know about. I was just kind of like, okay, just like your bike shorts. I was kind of like bike shorts about it.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But now I'm full thong about it. And like I said to Rob, I was like, it's. It reminds me very much of stand up. And I'm grateful that I have that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Touchstone is I'm like, one of the things. And everyone knows what I'm going to say already. But, like, you do stand up to show off and you're like, showing yourself off. And this really.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Feels very familiar to me.

[Pete Holmes]

100%. No, you are understanding.

[Valerie]

But afterwards you go like, I feel viral. I feel desirable.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, exactly. And that is. That's why I'm listening to Esther Perel is because I feel like I'm doing it. I'm like, I used there. There were times, and even in our relationship, not where, like, it was a flaw necessarily in our relationship, but where I would listen to her and it would be challenging because I wasn't really. I was being too cozy and I wasn't getting no. This sort of this is it. Virility.

[Valerie]

You need to infuse. It's like oxygen.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Into. Infused into you. Something challenging, scary.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think that's what people get from like affairs or even open marriages is. It's like another person is seeing you a new way.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that makes you feel alive and desired and.

[Valerie]

Which is why. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So when you do stand up, all these people are seeing you maybe for the first time or seeing you in this. This very kind of fresh way.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And doing this for me is like, I'm seeing myself in a new way and my friends are seeing me in a new way and you know what I mean? So it's.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's the same energy.

[Valerie]

Very, very similar. And I think it's very, very important. And it helps me understand a whole slew of activities. It. I'm not putting down bowling. It could be bowling. It's like something.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

In your life where you do it and you go, God damn.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And what I was gonna say is how it goes, like from bike shorts to thong you. It's so interesting how quickly you get how it is empowering. You're like, I feel, I feel powerful when I'm doing this. Like, it's. It's maybe because the patriarchy told me that this was my self worth and so I'm just like going like, okay, well then I'm gonna go for it.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Or it is actually just like, this is. I am. It's like the same kind of power that you have when you're on a stage with a microphone.

[Valerie]

I would. Yeah. I. I don't know. I. I think we could leave the patriarchy out of it because bees and flowers, man. Just be a beautiful flower. It's. It's not, it's not.

[Katie]

It doesn't have to.

[Valerie]

I understand that there is an element, obviously.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Valerie]

But I'm just saying there's something even like. I'm sure ancient tribes that don't have all of this.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Cultural.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Would understand and I'm sure have versions. I know they do.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Dancing by the fire.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

In a seductive way.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Valerie]

That is just like. It's. It's La chaim. It's life. It's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And so it goes from feeling like. I know. I loved it. Going from like have like, oh, wow. I look. I feel like. I look really great. I feel virile. I eat. And then you're like, wow. I actually feel like, powerful. And it's funny how quickly, like probably by my sixth class, I Was like, yeah, I should get paid for this.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you just so quickly see the train, like, where it's like, I'm gonna take a pole class, but it's not like I'm gonna be like, a stripper. And then, like. Not that you don't do it even for that long. And you're like, bow down. Throw your money at me.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, so it's. But it's. It's been a really great thing and all of that. I wasn't even gonna go on that tangent.

[Valerie]

I'm glad you did.

[Pete Holmes]

But I was gonna say going back to, like, 50. You get muscle when you're 50, because then you. You can't. That was before you're 50. What we were talking about. Yeah, that's what we were talking about when we were watching you swim. Is that my friend who is two years older than me, who we. I'm taking these classes with, she was like, God, I wish we had just discovered this earlier in our lives because, like, we don't have that many more years where we can do this. And I had this real, like, what? Like, speak for yourself. And I realized there's, like, this mindset that I am sort of resisting and refusing to have that I can't still get into, like, peak physical shape.

[Valerie]

I couldn't agree more. And I would say that's one of my core tenets, is I'm like, I could still be in. Not be in the NBA, but I'm just, like, I could still.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And not in a bad way. But don't you have a class that's taught by someone who's quite old?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I took an aerial yoga class taught by a woman who was 78, and she was so set on, like, you are only as old as you let your body become. Like, just keep working your body out, and it will stay young.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah. And I know I say this a million. But it's been really impactful to me to have found swimming. And I also feel like it's in the zeitgeist. Like, it's in the. Maybe not the zeitgeist. That's, like, culture, but, like, I feel like there's a lot of. I see a lot of divorce right now. I sound like a psychic.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

There's a lot of things ending, or you could say being reborn. And I also see a lot of people swimming. I know that's so stupid, but, like, I saw my homeboy, Ethan Suplee, and I was like, I've been swimming. And he's like, I've been wanting to get into swimming. I said to Matt McCarthy, I was like, I've been swimming. He's like, that's crazy. I just started swimming laps at the Y and I was like, what's going on? Like, people. I don't. I really. But obviously that's just two people. But to me, that's enough.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I'm like, it's in the zeitgeist. That's also a core tenet for me. If it's happening to two people, I know. It's happening every.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And both times you brought it up.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's right. But.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but they were thinking about it.

[Valerie]

But I also. And I'm just like, use a snorkel if it hurts your neck. That's all I want to say. That's all I'm gonna say.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's all you have said every episode of this.

[Valerie]

I know, but I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

It's an important message. It is.

[Valerie]

Well, I was. Again, I was just talking to a friend about this. Like, I know we've said this before, but Ima help me. And I actually get mad that people know things like, if you hurt your neck swimming, you should just use a snorkel.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And they knew that.

[Pete Holmes]

And they didn't.

[Valerie]

Like, I can't tell you how many people I. I've said that. And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, really? Why didn't you. If it. If it's not literally that. It's a million other things.

[Pete Holmes]

I have to say, it is one of the cutest things, and I never get old. Two things that I'm really enjoying about you.

[Valerie]

Love it.

[Pete Holmes]

We should do this more often. I'm enjoying how you're making fresh green juice again. And it makes our whole house smell fresh. And.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Really good apartment. And it. And it also. So, like, it just is good because it makes the whole house smell fresh. But it also. The, like, olfactory experience takes me back to when we were dating and how your old apartment smelled. And I think, just think it's absolutely adorable whenever I see you swimming laps in the pool with a snorkel.

[Valerie]

Well, you. The reason I'm being the champion of it is it's, like the dorkiest thing.

[Pete Holmes]

In the world, but it's not even. It's not dorky in the way of, like, do I need to get a belt? A belt I could. So that I could have my chassis chapstick and fiber in it? I don't know.

[Valerie]

Maybe it is the things I would put in my Belt pouch.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Now that I say that, maybe it is in the same category, but I do think that's something I would write in the beginning of a. Of a film to instantly endear you to a character.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Look, if I went to the. The public pool here in town and put on my snorkel, I. I would expect some comments from the other swimmers.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Would be in the shallow end, and they'd be like, snorkel, huh? Like, because they don't need one and because their neck doesn't hurt. So they are stronger in a sense or somethinger than a sense.

[Pete Holmes]

Flexier, maybe just dumber and in more pain.

[Valerie]

That's. But that's why I'm out here. Like, the. The things that I like that I really like. The Apollo that I'm wearing, arguably, is a dorky. You could say it's kind of dorky to wear, like, a functional appendage that people think is a watch. And that. That just makes me want to shout it even more.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, I know you love it.

[Valerie]

Who cares?

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

It helps.

[Pete Holmes]

Your enneagram for it is you, like, stand and then.

[Valerie]

Which Leela, when we did Hollywood Squares, they were like. Because I. I put on, like, a suit, and they're like, are you gonna wear that? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And they're like, it's not my favorite. And I was like, good, good.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Which also I took it off with the suit.

[Pete Holmes]

So the four in the enneagram is the individualists and loves, like, little things that make them stand out like this. And we've had this discussion before where we're like, every kid is a four in some ways. So Leela's going through this too. And I'm like, yeah, her art teacher. We were talking about it. She said, this is true of every kid because Leela has, like, a scrape on her toe that she has decided is, like, past worthy.

[Valerie]

Life and death.

[Pete Holmes]

Life and death. I can't do anything. I'm so sorry. I can't clean up my art style supplies my toe, you know, And. And this art teacher has been around the block. She's seen it all. And she's like, this happens every. Like, to every kid. This is a normal stage of development where they just start to. To do this kind of thing. And I wanted to be like, yeah. But her father never stopped, so this might actually just be her personality.

[Valerie]

Yeah, no, a 4 is. Is a child in that way for sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But also, I do think it's. Somebody was just telling me that seven. She's about to turn seven. And seven is the age where you learn that the universe doesn't revolve around you.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Seven is the age where you get wounded.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And the wound is like figuring out the world doesn't revolve around you.

[Pete Holmes]

And so it makes sense that, like, you'd be holding on to every injury to be like, I need extra attention, you know? Cause she's like reconciling with. She doesn't get all of the attention all of the time.

[Valerie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, took us on a couple tears there. But tell us about your therapy.

[Valerie]

Yeah, thanks for asking. It is. It's exactly like a dream. And I don't want to bore everyone to tears, but, like doing internal family systems, which is also known as parts work, and talking to these protectors and. I don't know. I went into my session today. How often when you have nothing do you end up having the best?

[Pete Holmes]

Every time.

[Valerie]

It's always, yeah. But I went in, like, I. Leela took so long to get dressed to go to coffee this morning. She's a real coffee addict. I'm just kidding. But I couldn't go because it was too close to my therapy. So I ended up just kind of sitting quietly and grounding myself and going in very open heart. I just noticed I was like. My tear ducts felt very wet and flat full, and my heart was like, heavy, not in a bad way. And I just went in and like, I saw this image of my childhood bedroom. And a lot of the therapy that I do revolves or takes place in this childhood bedroom in my mind. But it. And again, I'm tempted to tell all the details. I just don't think they'll be interesting. What ended up happening was instead of this house that I grew up in, which has only and always ever been my child self's way of showing me pain, it's like, don't forget this pain. I want you to look at this pain. And most of my therapy is just crying and feeling that those things, like how it felt to be a child at times and all this sort of stuff. This time it was the same bedroom, but, like the house was empty. And there instead of the. It was always the yellow light of my lamp. So it was always dark and the light was kind of yellow. My wall was yellow, so it was always this yellow hue. Now it was this like, twilight blue. Like when the sun's just about to set. So this most majestic twilight blue. And the house was. This had always Been this place of turmoil.

[Janie]

Right.

[Valerie]

Had suddenly became like a cathedral. And the light was shining in the window. And I was a grownup. I was me. My child self wasn't there. My protectors weren't there. Nothing was there. I told her at the end. I was like. It was like the safest place. Like I. It would have been the perfect place to nap.

[Janie]

Wow.

[Valerie]

Because it was outside of time. It was like an expanded place. It wasn't 1986, but it wasn't 2025 either. It was just frozen.

[Janie]

Wow.

[Valerie]

And everything felt expanded. Like an accordion had opened. Every room was big enough to walk an elephant through. But it was also somehow. Also in proportion.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And now all that happened was I went into a state without. There's no hypnosis. It was just this state was beckoning me. That's what parts work is. Is there's something inside you that wants to talk to you. Wants to show you something. So I wasn't willingness. She wasn't guiding me. I just said, it's weird. I'm in my childhood bedroom. And then she said, we'll go there. That's all we did. And then I was quiet for a very long time. Everything was expanded and peaceful and quiet and still. And I walked around the house. All these places where different little traumas had happened. But then I started seeing all these beautiful things that had happened. But it wasn't as like the mind would like to be. Like don't forget beautiful things. It wasn't that. It was both. And it was both. And the whole thing was both. And it was like. And I went down. So many meals were tense in my family. So I'm at the dining room table and I could see the chairs. I couldn't have told you that I knew what the chair chairs looked like. But there they were. They had this red cushion and they were round. I couldn't. I didn't even know I remembered. And I'd remember the lamp above the table and I'd remember where we sat. And I'd remember some tense feelings. But then I'd also remember my mom making me tuna melts and how I would sit in her chair and would watch tv. Or my mom's bedroom where she would cry and I'd have to go be with her. But also the nights we would like snuggle and watch TV in her bedroom. Like. But it wasn't going like, be grateful for the good times.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Valerie]

That's what the head says. This was divine.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

This was like, I'll show you everything. And Just like a movie. I'm walking around and unfrightening ghosts are everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. It was tears.

[Valerie]

I know. I cried the entire time.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's so beautiful.

[Valerie]

It was. It was unbelievable. Just because it was a huge breakthrough.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, you know, this is the thing. This is. This is. And it will be for you. It is already. But, like, the quickest way to find the squishiest part of my self, and probably yours and everyone's, is like. Is that realization of, like, it's all of it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's okay. It's all okay. Yeah, it's all. It's all not okay. And it's all okay.

[Valerie]

That's exactly right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just when you can really experientially, like you said, not the head being like, it's. It is this too, and there's that. Like, not the head, like, experientially know that on the deepest level, it feels like the most gorgeous universal truth. Like, it feels gorgeous, doesn't it?

[Valerie]

It's gorgeous. It's funny that you say that. I kept saying. We didn't talk a ton. I kept checking in and telling her what was happening, but she was like, what was that like? And I was like, it was beautiful. It was really. So the light, this blue light.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Was beautiful, right? Just like a dream. I told her. I was like, you ever wake up and you're like, I just had the most amazing dream. I had this waking dream that I was not constructing. I remember that my mom's bedroom had this little balcony. I hadn't thought about that in ages. I remember that there was a toy chest in my bedroom. Hadn't thought about that in ages. And it was all effortlessly accessible. And then I would go. That's where this unpleasant feeling happened. But it didn't disrupt the beauty. It was a very mystical and sacred. And it felt. I kept saying, like. It was like, this feels like divine seeing. Which is both. And.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's. I think, why it's so gorgeous is it's like seeing, for lack of a better way to put it, it's like seeing with the eyes of God. It's like seeing.

[Valerie]

Well, that's what I wanted to say. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

See. Literally seeing everything in the same light is what you were seeing.

[Valerie]

And it felt incredible. Like, I've said, doing parts work, internal family systems therapy. I always say I. I really have taken to it, but I'm like, one session has been. It's just been so transformative to me.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I'm really grateful for it. But yeah, that's. That's what I. That's what happened to me today.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm so glad you shared that. That's that really, like, I hope it did for the listeners, too. Like, you really sort of transmitted the feeling of that. And that's such a good reminder. Like, it's like love. The only love that's worth having is the both and. Is the both and.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And every once in a while, like, when I saw my dining room table, which is like so much of the family tension was when we were all together at that table. And I'd feel this, like, resistance because everything was beautiful. And then I'd see it and I'd go like, I can't. I can't look at that this way. And then as soon as I was like, horror happened here. It would then go. And tuna melts happened.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. It wouldn't let you see it Wouldn't.

[Valerie]

Let me see it. Unless I saw. And I just watched a movie about people who lost somebody and they were like, you have to face the loss, otherwise you'll lose all the memories, the good memories. I felt like that. It was like this. Part of me was like, acknowledge this. Yes, again, Death of a Salesman. Attention must be paid. You have to see this.

[Janie]

Right.

[Valerie]

And then I was like. I said this to Claudia as my therapist. I was like, I used to run home. I used to rush home. It wasn't just to protect my mother. That was part of my life.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But I would sleep in and nap and play and my friends would come over and there were. I saw holidays and.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And Christmases and all of. Again, I completely reject. You can't be upset that you're. That you felt this because you also had this. That is the head.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

This was just. I will eat it all. It was all there and there I was outside of time. It felt. I told her. I was like. It felt like something you would do on your death bed. It was like this, like, all encompassing vision.

[Janie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that is literally integration.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You were integrating. That's. It's like a. No bad parts. Well, all are welcome.

[Valerie]

Okay. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you something then. So last week, we were. My. My protector is Daniel Plainview from There Will Be Blood.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I love him very much. And we call him my Plainview and we've called him my Plainview on this show. He's fierce. People aren't safe. He's like, just amass wealth and power and keep it to yourself and stay away from everybody, because it's not worth too much confusion. I look at people and I see nothing worth liking.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

He was a wartime protector. A lot was happening, and he didn't have time for subtlety and nuance and. And he needed to do what he needed to do to get that kid somewhere he needed to be.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So last week, we just started finding the boundaries of my body. That's what this. I'm wearing this rubber band on my wrist, and it's to remember to just squeeze my shoulders because my shoulders swimming are the strongest part of my body. My arms and my shoulders. So I just touch them and remember that I'm a sovereign, boundaried person, that I. That I'm in here. I spend so much of my spiritual time going like, nothing's in here, and we're all one. But, like, psychologically, I'm like, I'm in here.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

So she's like, okay. Something very important happened. As you're becoming, you know, independent, you're getting in touch with your body.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I know. You've said this a million.

[Pete Holmes]

Please don't think I'm not having that feeling.

[Valerie]

Okay. I know you've been helping me with this as well. And then we. As we do with all the protectors, we go where we had done all this work with Plainview, and we're like, where would you like to be? And, like, effortlessly, I pictured this, like, kind of frontier where Plainview could use all of his skills and catch fish and cook them in a skillet and camp. He doesn't want to be in a mansion. He wants to be useful. He wants to be scrappy. And frankly, he wants to be alone, too, like that. And he's tired. He's tired of watching this kid. So I was like, let's put you here. Not even put you here. He just kind of appeared there. And the sky was this blue twilight. And I. I can see it, this image, the fresh air blowing, and he's just closing his eyes and he's breathing it in. And it's this blue desert. Not desert, but, you know, whatever.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Kind of like a there will be blood kind of place. But it's blue twilight.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And then this week, I'm in my childhood bedroom, and the light of this blue twilight is coming through my. My. It was like, you know, caused. Because he was able to go.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And then it was informing the past.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Valerie]

And then I was given access because he was given a break to see clearly. Not. I had a great childhood but not. I was always under attack.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

Because he could rest. So the light of his safe place. Like a dream. Like he. Like he went off and became a star in the sky, but he became this light. And I was like. He didn't go away. He went. He's still servicing.

[Pete Holmes]

He's part of the whole thing.

[Valerie]

His rest was what was helping.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It was the ripple effect.

[Valerie]

Right. That's what I was trying to like, the causality.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

He went to where he could catch fish and cook them and be happy. And then my childhood home got flooded with the light of his happy place.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. That's right. Oh, my God.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Janie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's so beautiful. It's so.

[Katie]

I'm sorry, Val.

[Valerie]

We're out of time.

[Pete Holmes]

It gets me every time. But that was. It's just so much. I stand by this. I don't think this is justifying it. But even if it is, who the cares? I like that aspect of this reality. I'm saying yes to the aspect of reality that is like the. The. This is so much richer. Because of the pain.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I think the type of joy and love and inspiration that you and I are feeling right now on that, it has incorporated the horror.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Of reality.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is so much better, richer, more interesting than if we lived in Barbie land.

[Valerie]

Right. Exactly. It's funny that you say that, because I was like, why not just start life in heaven? Like, why not just start united with the one? Why do this?

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And it's like all of these risks. The risk of having friendships, the risk of doing a magic trick that could go wrong.

[Janie]

Yeah. Yes.

[Valerie]

You know, it's like that's. It's a striving and a struggle.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And that's the point. That heaven. And it was like a heavenly place. My childhood house. I said to her, this is my favorite place. I'm in my favorite place. And I don't mean my childhood house.

[Janie]

I know. Yeah.

[Valerie]

I mean, that way of seeing was my favorite place.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But I could see my childhood house that way. I'm like, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just so much more beautiful because of the things that happened in that house.

[Valerie]

Thank you. I lost my. That heaven that I experienced. This empty, quiet, peaceful, blue lit, twilight house was only accessible by going through a type of hell.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I. I don't mean to say. Please don't under. I understand. There's greater pain.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

So I'm not saying it was hell.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just.

[Valerie]

But I'm saying, like, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Your.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Your pain is your pain.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

Going through that pain opened up this whole. And then, as I've always. As I'm always saying, like, hopefully people are getting value out of hearing this. And it's like, what use are you to everyone unless you can kind of talk about processing your pain and working through it?

[Pete Holmes]

And absolutely, you were of great use to me today by sharing that.

[Valerie]

Well, that's. And what use are you in Barbieland?

[Pete Holmes]

Right, Right. Exactly. It's sort of like, yeah, if we all lived in heaven and everything was perfect, we would see people dancing and be like, yeah, of course. That's great. But we live in a reality where there is war and miscarriages and death and the most horrific things we can think. And people still dance. They go to dance classes. They dance for each other. They dance on parade floats. Like, we're still doing that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's stunning. I just can't get over it. I think it's the most beautiful thing.

[Valerie]

Well, having been to that place, that's, like, earned on the other side of all of this. I'm not saying I'm like, I don't know where I'm at in my therapy, meaning maybe that was the grand finale. But there were parts recently where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Where it would lay out the pain on a table.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And be like, we have to look at this. And Plainview was there, and he's like, to what end? He was furious that we were dredging things up.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course.

[Valerie]

And now he lives. Is in paradise.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he is making.

[Valerie]

He's making a fish. He's cooking a fish, and he's breathing fresh air. And it was like, we're. We're actually doing this to free both of us.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And to. To the grand finale of it all. Like, I know you know this, but I was already. Before you were gonna say that. I was already gonna say part of integrating is also integrating that it's not linear and that, you know, your next session, it could be.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Whatever it is. And. And integrating that into it, too, which really feels like freedom, where you're like, right. This doesn't have to go any sort of way. Whatever way it goes is right.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Well, that's why it's written on my mirror. It's about spiritual things. But it says, I'm sure, and I'm sure we can hold it when we're not sure.

[Janie]

Yeah, that's right.

[Valerie]

But what's weird about Parts Work Therapy is we've established these locations, and there's three major locations. And if you Just say the parlor to me. Yeah, I know what it is. And I'll start. Not right now, but, like, if I really embody what it means to be in this location.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

The parlor is where it's just this place of unconditional love, and it's where everyone's true self goes to kind of smile at each other in between. You ever been at a party and you see someone you used to know and you smile at them in this knowing way, and they smile back? It's all you do. It's like the true self smiles at itself in the parlor. And then. And now I have the blue House. And I'm like. What I'm saying is these touchstones when I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Valerie]

Mixed up. That's what I mean. I'm sure. But. And I'm sure we can hold it when we're not sure. And luckily, I have locations that I can feel that are reminders.

[Pete Holmes]

You've created. You found these resources, and now you are resources. That's if there is a goal of therapy or trauma work. It's just that it's just being resourced. It's not never being triggered again. It's not. Not experiencing old feelings and old patterns and getting kind of lost and confused. It's just knowing that when that happens, you are resourced. You have the resources to move through it. Last time, I'll say this name, but Esther Perel had a great little. It was like, such a little moment, but I was like, oh, I'm putting that in my pocket, where she was helping someone through. Like, this person had experienced abuse, and it was affecting her current relationship. And the woman was crying, and she was like, it's just. I thought I had moved on from this. And she said, what does move on mean? This is such an American phrase. And she's like, what does that even mean, move on? And it's like. But it was so liberating to be like, yeah, that. That is the word of somebody who is trying to bypass all of this.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And just be like, get going, be productive, move forward. And it's like, that's not helpful. That's not realistic.

[Valerie]

Well, that's funny. I. I. Sorry. I love that you brought that up, because I'm reading Cherished Belonging. It's Father Greg's fourth book. Yeah, it's his fourth book. Father Greg Boyle. It's unbelievable. I absolutely love it. Audiobook. He's so good at reading it, performing it. But he says, we don't move on. We move through. Or maybe he Says we move with.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And he says, and that's the image of the wounded Christ. He's like, that's why that resonates with us. He's like, he's wounded and he's moving forward like the Jesus carrying his cross.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

He's like, you don't get over it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right.

[Valerie]

He's like, that's not how it works. You find a way to move with it.

[Janie]

Yes.

[Valerie]

And then why I love those books is they're over and over, these unbelievable stories of people's trauma bringing us together.

[Janie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And why would I relate so hard? I don't. I'm not from, you know, east la. I'm not in a gang. But like I relate so hard to every single one of them.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolutely. We're all sort of collecting this stuff. Like this is again, sorry, like to take it back to pole dancing for a second. There's something so profound about pole dancing in this body that I currently live in with my other friends who most of which have had kids, some of them somewhat recently. And like we are in our third, you know, our middle aged bodies. And I was like, they, these bodies are so stunning to me because they are perfect external representations of our insides where it's like some of us have C section scars. We all have extra fat deposits somewhere like specific, you know, like we have soft supple skin now. Like we shouldn't look like Barbies because that's not reflective of all the. That we have gone through internally. Like it's like this is, this is well earned.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That we are going through this life collecting these wounds and then these experiences of transforming these wounds and then like holding our pain, holding the fear that our kids will be okay. Like all this stuff that we're holding and it's, it's like making our skin thinner. Like literally as you age, your skin gets thinner and softer and suppler. It's like we are learning through these wounds to become softer. Opener. Thin, Thinner. Spread like. You know what I mean? Spread out. Like feeling it all. Feeling more, feeling more. Because we trust the process of feeling. Now we don't have to become hard bodied against the world. Like we aren't scared to feel. It's very cool.

[Valerie]

It's beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Val, can I read this poem that is a little more apropos of your blue lit house. Childhood House.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we can end.

[Valerie]

It's perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Okay. It's called Little Things by Sharon Olds. And if you follow poetry is not luck a luxury? Then this came on your Feed yesterday too.

[Valerie]

You mean the bush song? Little things.

[Pete Holmes]

What if I just read those lyrics?

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Liddal.

[Janie]

Lidal. Lidal.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. Little Things. After she's gone to camp in the early evening, I clear our girls breakfast dishes from the rosewood table and find a dinky, crystallized pool of maple syrup. The grains standing there round in the night. I rub it with my fingertip as if I could read it, this raised dot of amber sugar. And this time when I think of my father, I wonder why I think of my father. Of the Vulcan blood red glass in his hand. Or his black hair gleaming like broken open coal. I think I learned to love the little things about him because of all the big things I could not love. No one could. It would be wrong too. So when I fix on this image of resin or sweep together with the heel of my hand a pile of my son's sunburned peels like insect wings where I peeled his back the night before camp, I am doing something I learned early to do. I am paying attention to small beauties, whatever I have. As if it were our duty to find things, to love, to bind ourselves to this world.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Janie]

Yeah, that's it.

[Pete Holmes]

My eyesight's getting bad. I need to get glasses.

[Valerie]

You're not 46.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm 36.

[Valerie]

John B. Sale.

[Pete Holmes]

It's John B. Hoist up the John B. Sale. Hoist up the John B's. It's like it's possession.

[Valerie]

John B. No. Yeah, it's John B's sale.

[Janie]

What?

[Valerie]

Sloop John B. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Game around. Blah, blah, blah.

[Valerie]

Beach boys. Dark story of a disastrous sailing voyage on a small boat named the Sloop John.

[Janie]

Oh, yeah.

[Valerie]

Oh. Sloop John B. So there's a sail named after a disaster on a boat? All right, that was wonderful, Valerie. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And Valerie, thanks for listening. Keep it crispy.