We Made It Weird #229

Summary

Episode Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – "We Made It Weird #229"

Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-Host: Valerie

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Overview

In this "We Made It Weird" installment, Pete Holmes and his wife/co-host Valerie embark on their signature blend of reflective humor and vulnerability, exploring themes around embarrassment, creativity, authenticity, emotional coping, "coolness" across generations, sobriety, addiction, and the psychological quirks of show business. The conversation weaves between personal stories, philosophical musings, and lighthearted asides, creating a portrait of two people continually seeking meaning (and laughs) in the weirdness of everyday life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embarrassing Creative Misadventures

[02:11–11:40] Valerie’s Failed Proof-of-Concept Video

• Valerie recounts an embarrassing attempt to film proof-of-concept FaceTime snippets with her friend Lisa as a "sizzle reel" for a pilot about their friendship.
• The effort, meant to capture their natural rapport, was a technological flop: “We had like, 11 minutes of FaceTiming and screen recording... and there was no audio, because of course there wasn’t.” ([06:47])
• Pete compares this vulnerability to show business in general: “At the end of the day, I’m saying, wait till you get a load of this. And when they say pass, it’s like turning the lights on at an orgy… you just feel so exposed.” ([10:23])

Memorable Quote:

“The story of you two failing at this humiliating endeavor is the cleanest, purest... I’m gonna buy all of it because you guys are dorks. You’re hardcore fucking dorks. That’s what the show is about.”
— Pete ([14:10])

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2. Millennial Cringe, Earnestness, and the ‘Coolness’ Wall

[15:15–20:56] Generational Reflections

• Valerie observes how Gen Z perceives millennial vulnerability as "cringe," but argues that being earnest and honest is more rewarding than being "cool."
• Pete draws a metaphor comparing being cool to the "coming soon" partition walls at the mall: “Being cool is... the veiling of your desperate attempts to get it together.” ([18:14])
• Discussion on how trying to be authentic often collides with the teenage/young adult urge to shield one’s awkwardness from scrutiny.

Memorable Quote:

“I still haven’t even met that bitch.”
— Valerie on forming identity while young ([19:35])

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3. The Need to Be Seen, ‘Dorkiness,’ and Parental Influence

[21:19–24:43] Vulnerability vs. Self-Protection

• Both hosts acknowledge a deep need to be “seen and known, like, truly known,” even in their strangest or “nastiest” parts. ([22:28])
• Valerie considers her mother’s excessive talking—symbolic of overbearing adults who crowd out kids’ ability to develop autonomy and “coolness.”
• Pete notes, “Kids want to be cool, but they want you to be cool,” emphasizing the importance of giving children space. ([27:47])

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4. Parenting, Emotional Space, and Leela’s Profound Observation

[28:11–30:37] The Power (and Pain) of Love

• Valerie shares an interaction with their daughter, Leela, whose insight reveals her sensitivity: “Too much love can hurt you... If somebody comes with too much love for you, you’ll have to dodge it.” ([29:09])
• The hosts recognize the intensity of children’s emotions and value giving them quiet space to process.

Memorable Quote:

“She feels everything 10 out of 10. So she feels love 10 out of 10, too.”
— Valerie ([30:18])

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5. Addiction, Avoidance, and Sober Curiosity

[31:22–40:33] Sex & Love Addiction, Emotional Numbing

• Pete references a Louis CK interview about experiencing emotion without addictive outlets: “When I stop and allow the feeling... it’s a sensation. It passes through your body, and it just wants to be honored.” ([32:21])
• Valerie echoes similar themes from Elizabeth Gilbert’s memoir about sex and love addiction, noting: “Addiction is addiction. Her sex and love addiction is the same as... heroin addiction.” ([37:13])
• They discuss how all forms of compulsion (food, fantasy, love, sex) serve as avoidance of uncomfortable feelings.

Memorable Quote:

“The treasure you seek is in the cave that you don’t want to go into. … I can really use the reminder.”
— Valerie ([57:29])

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6. The Desire for Approval and the Inability to Please Everyone

[44:46–55:28] People-Pleasing and Existential Security

• Pete relates watching a YouTube video about “bad comedians” and dreaming of convincing the creator to like him. The exchange explores the wound of needing universal approval.
• Valerie notes: “It doesn’t matter if every other person on the planet loved me. I have to convince that one person. Otherwise the whole thing is in the trash.” ([52:15])
• Pete, relating Rupert Spira and Byron Katie, encourages exploring the self that remains when approval is denied: “Even your loneliness is made out of beautiful fireworks.” ([56:03])

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7. Resilience Through Discomfort & The Art of "Just Being"

[58:40–67:58] Sobriety, Boredom, and Emotional Practice

• Valerie describes hard-earned resilience in living through uncomfortable alone time—gradually learning from repeating those feelings: “There’s just no other way out than through.” ([61:45])
• Pete reframes this: “If we allow the emotion with a secret intent to get rid of it, it doesn’t work... You have to just go in with flowers.” ([62:00])
• Filming on location, Pete discusses using time alone to practice being present, rather than falling into old escapes (e.g., weed, video games): “Why not explore the true nature of your boredom?” ([65:27])

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8. Living Simpler, Sober, and Letting Go

[68:07–71:56] Surrendering Control

• Both reflect on embracing “sober October” energy—doing less, embracing silence, reading instead of endless scrolling, and allowing the present moment to be enough.
• Valerie sums up recent lessons: “I did the best I could. It went how it went, and I’m just gonna lay low for a minute… surrender it over to life.” ([71:56])

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9. Slasher Movies, Acting Real Fear, and Set Life

[72:01–76:13] Pete’s On-Set Experience

• Pete shares what it’s like shooting a horror movie, acting out being chased and killed in a physically challenging scene: “My legs are so fucked up. I’m, like, walking downstairs gingerly.” ([74:22])
• Both joke about whether acting out scary or sexy scenes would actually stir real emotion or arousal—they agree awkwardness is frequently more prevalent than intensity on set.

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10. Quirky Final Musings

[81:18–84:22] Second-Screening and the ‘Coolest Mouth Accessories’

• The hosts discuss the quirks of solo TV watching (always “second-screening”), the rebel coolness of dental picks, and how even daily habits get tangled up with seeking stimulation.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Pete: “At the end of the day, I’m saying, wait till you get a load of this. And when they say pass, it’s like turning the lights on at an orgy.” ([10:23])
• Valerie: “I still haven’t even met that bitch.” (on identity formation, [19:35])
• Pete: “Kids want to be cool, but they want you to be cool. Because I remember being like, can everybody just like, I still feel this way a lot of the time. That’s why I hate planning.” ([27:47])
• Valerie: “Too much love can hurt you. Like, if somebody comes with too much love for you, you’ll have to dodge it.” ([29:09])
• Pete: “If we allow the emotion with a secret intent to get rid of it, it doesn’t work. It knows. It’s like going on a date and you’re holding flowers, but there’s a knife behind your back.” ([62:06])
• Valerie: “There’s just no other way out than through... actually I’ve been here before. I know how this goes. Just let it.” ([61:45])
• Pete: “Why not explore the true nature of your boredom?” ([65:27])

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Episode Flow & Tone

• The episode matches the show’s signature mix of honest exploration and comedic storytelling.
• Pete and Valerie maintain a playful, self-aware banter—even on serious subjects—making philosophical musings feel approachable.
• The language oscillates between casual, earnest, and whimsically explicit, with frequent asides and cultural references.

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For New Listeners

• This episode is a stellar example of Pete & Valerie’s core themes: embracing weirdness, understanding psychological wounds, finding humor in vulnerability, and learning to sit with discomfort rather than escape it.
• Their dynamic is both supportive and self-deprecating, making deep dives into embarrassing or emotional territory feel both insightful and entertaining.

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Key Takeaway:
You can only find real connection—both with others and yourself—by being open to embarrassment, discomfort, and the awkward chaos of real feelings. The weirdness is the point.

Transcript

[A]

Lemonade. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos?

[A]

Hey, everybody.

[B]

Coming at you from Zoom Zoom.

[A]

Yeah. This is a Zoom ep. I. I'm going to give us the Golden Nugget award for least zoomy conversation. There was talking, There was bits. There was interrupting. There was cross talk. It was hot. It was here. It was now. And I'm glad you're here. If you don't know the pod, this is the. This is the Friday episode. It's probably going to come out late Friday or maybe Saturday, where Valerie and I catch up. So we're glad you're here. There's not much to say. Go to PeteHomes.com is my tour dates. I'm coming up on Cleveland. I'm gonna go to Cleveland in the middle of this movie that I'm shooting. And then we have New York. New York. We have New Jersey. Pittsburgh, I think. No. Pennsylvania. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's on there. Florida. It doesn't matter. Go to peteholmes.com and come see me on the road. I hope you can. And in the meantime, enjoy this chat. And if you like the show, try one of our Pete's Picks. These are things that we actually use and love. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. All right, everybody, we're so glad you're here.

[B]

Valerie, get into it. Ah, got it.

[A]

I'm. I'm glad you asked because we could have just had a whole podcast not recording.

[B]

Okay, can I tell you something embarrassing?

[A]

You just did that.

[B]

Well, kind of. It's really stupid. I feel really embarrassed.

[A]

Oh, I can't wait. Lila's gonna love it, because Lila wants every story of when we feel embarrassed.

[B]

I know, but it's not. I mean, this won't apply to her. Like, she won't be able to understand the mechanics of this. It's. Oh, I feel really vulnerable. Even though it's silly, but it just can't wait.

[A]

Welcome to the pod.

[B]

Welcome to the pod. Here we are. So our friend Lisa, she and I are trying to. So vulnerable. We kind of have. We're trying to make this a series of. We made a pilot. We wrote a pilot, and we're trying to make, like, in lieu of a sizzle reel, just, like, a series of these little snippets of us, like, talking on FaceTime so that we can do, like, a proof of concept of showing, like, our friendship.

[A]

Yeah, I think I understand, because the pilot is about a friendship. Like, you and Lisa. You're trying to make a sizzle reel of you and Lisa's. Friendship.

[B]

Yeah, but it is like, us, like, the characters. I mean, it's like us kind of talking like the characters, which is really just because that part of the show is very much realistic to our friendship. It's like just. Just the way that we are silly together, basically.

[A]

But you're not. You're not reading the script. You're just sending a sample.

[B]

It's actually.

[A]

I don't. I don't think that's terrible, because when I. When we did. No, I know.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. I haven't gone to the embarrassing part, but. Okay.

[A]

What part of you thinks that? I thought that that was the embarrassing part.

[B]

That would be really funny. I mean, it is a little vulnerable to share that, even, but I get it.

[A]

Yeah. I also just found out that Kevin hart has a 24. 7 videographer that just films everything he does. So that is.

[B]

That's embarrassing.

[A]

You're in the lower 1% of embarrassing things that you could be filming. Just Kevin ordering dinner in case something happens. Or you could say, that's real. Rise and grind.

[C]

Shit.

[A]

I don't know how people feel. I think it's a little much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when we pitched Crashing, Judd gave me the advice that they're really. The meeting is a lot about getting a sense of you. And then he said that when they pitched Girls, when he and Lena pitched Girls to hbo, that they didn't. I could be getting this a little bit wrong. They did talk about the show, but Judd really got the sense that they understood her and that's what they were investing in. So it makes sense that you would want to be like, this is us. Of course that'll come through in any meeting the two of you are in. But maybe not actually. You might be so nervous, right?

[B]

Totally. Yeah. And we just feel like anytime we can. Any way we can, like, show that rapport, because that's sort of the heart of the show. Thank you for that. So, anyway, here's the embarrassing part that we recorded. We're like. You know, they'll be. They'll each be, like, a minute to three minutes long. But we. And we had, like, sort of. We actually did have a script, but it was like. Let's just have a script to, like, feel some sort of structure and to get us started. And so we did that.

[A]

We're getting close to embarrassing.

[B]

Embarrassing.

[A]

I'm getting an embarrassing feeling in my cheeks. You know what it feels? No.

[B]

Embarrassing.

[A]

It reminds me of when I was in junior high and I would. Me and Ern would write scripts to call, like, we Would, like, a tree graph. Would call. If their parents answer. This is what we say when they answer. We say this. If they say they're doing good, we say this. If they say they're doing bad.

[B]

Totally. But, I mean, this was. Yeah. And just because I do feel defensive, this was, like, a good script. Like, we could have made this as a sketch and just read the script, but we decided to just use it to then, like, get us into whatever, talking the way that we talk. And then we. We did that. So we shot something that was, like 11 minutes long. And we're like, we'll be able to edit this together, and we'll have, like, a couple different. We hit on a few different topics. So we'll have, like, maybe a couple different videos. And Lisa was, like, going through. And the way that we shot it was a screen recording on each side. And then we're like, we'll edit them together. Because just like a couple moms, we were like, that will work. And there's no reason to test it. And so we did, like, 11 minutes of FaceTiming and screen recording. Each screen record.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

To, like.

[A]

For my own sake, I'm trying to get ahead and see what the mistake is. Like on Seinfeld. We were just talking about this. The alarm didn't go off. Was it the ampm?

[B]

It was not the ampm.

[A]

Did you guys have headphones in? Is that what it was?

[B]

Well, she looked at the. The footage, and there was no audio, because of course there wasn't. Because it was just a screen.

[A]

Oh, it's a green record. I didn't see that. Yeah, I didn't see that coming. I validate that, and I think that's better. Why wouldn't there be audio? I don't understand.

[B]

I mean, I know. I think it just is videoing whatever's on your screen. But.

[A]

But no, Matt, I think if the audio is coming. Yes.

[B]

If the audio is coming out of the phone, which it would be.

[A]

It's gotta be. It's a privacy issue. It's. You can't record phone calls.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Without the consent of the other person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And zoom is just, you know, international waters. No, I had to ask your permission. So I think recording a phone call is different because Matt told me. I really. It is happening. I am an older person now, and I don't understand. I'm not even trying to understand technology, which is really the problem, I guess. And Matt told me, like, I was trying to save some video I saw, and undoubtedly, it was, like, 10 things you should ask your kid to get a good conversation going. So even more old man. And he was like, just do a screen recording so you can. Audio and video screen recordings.

[B]

Yeah, you can. Because now that I'm thinking of it, I once I wanted to make a video for, like, a real sort of slideshow for my friend Annie when she got married. And I really wanted to use this specific song that's, like, there. It's like this pretty version of Call.

[A]

Me Owl and Paul Simon, longtime listener, is like, hey, yeah, my version's pretty.

[B]

And I can't remember. That was, like, hard to find the song to do it on, like, another program. So I just did it on Instagram and made a reel, but didn't post it, but screen recorded the reel playing on my phone.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

And that worked. So, yeah, I don't know.

[A]

I know you're good.

[B]

But really where we got. Where we became, like, dorky moms is that we just didn't even test it. We were like, this will absolutely 100% work. There's no reason to try it out first.

[A]

Yeah. I actually think the most embarrassing. I'm. I'm not. I don't think you should be embarrassed about any of that. But the most embarrassing part is that you two ladies think very sweetly and maybe correctly, that the way you'll sell your show is your scintillating rapport. And I'm not saying that's wrong, but that's very earnest and very sweet.

[B]

Oh, my God. You don't think so really embarrassed. You do. Yeah.

[A]

If you and I were selling a show, we'd show them episodes of this podcast. It's absolutely a thing. But the most vulnerable and therefore the most potentially embarrassing thing is, like, it's just the most vulnerable thing. Let's take embarrassing out of it. You're like, wait till you get a load of this. But, like, stop saying Valerie. That's.

[B]

I. That's not what we're saying the way that.

[A]

To be mean.

[B]

I was like, you need it more embarrassing.

[A]

No, that's what show business is. I'm very sorry. God, take it from someone who just had some streamers. Pass on my special. My new standup special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is the. The game you're. I'm going. Here's me talking about my interests in my specific way. And I am saying, at the end of the day, I'm saying, wait till you get a load of this. And when they say pass, it's like turning the lights on at an orgy. All of a sudden, it's just some Guy named Rick with a big mustache, and there's bony asses and weird feet in places. Like, you just feel so exposed that you thought. But then when it works. When it works, when you sell your show, you'll be like, and you know what? They bought us. They bought our relationship. So it's the risk. It's the risk in the beam.

[B]

And. Yes. Okay, a few things, because. Ooh, this is good. I'm feeling really embarrassed, but I'm very.

[A]

Protective of you, as you know, and I don't think this is thin ice. I think you're totally fine.

[B]

No, I, I, I, I. Yes, it is just vulnerable. Just emotionally, like, good. But I do think that that is what makes the no audio thing so embarrassing is. Because it already is embarrassing. The first thing we said when we were, like, getting on the, the, the FaceTime to do it is we're like, this is humiliating.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I, I, I, like, don't want to do it. I'm so embarrassed.

[A]

Mallory.

[B]

We were, like, putting it off. I kept putting it off. I was like, yeah, we'll do it tomorrow.

[A]

No, I'm gonna say lion. The Witch in the Wardrobe style. You and Lisa, who. Look, I'm not saying you're not both very funny people, but you're. You're venturing into show business, right? You're going into.

[B]

Which also makes it more. Because with your special, by the way, it's like, you have been successful.

[A]

No, I know. How many. How many stars do I need? I know exactly. I can. I should be able to handle that. But I'm surprisingly upset about it. No, I'm not. It does hurt my feelings, though. But I'm cool. I'm a cool guy. What I'm saying is, you guys went into the wardrobe. You went past the British coats, which are slightly different from US coats, and you went into comedy Narnia. And I'm the fawn. I have hairy goat legs. And isn't it always kind of understood that there's a dick in there? Listen, I'm just saying, the, the fawn animals.

[B]

That James McAvoy. Fawn, yeah, McAvoy. First crushes.

[A]

He's Packavoy. He's packing it. He's got a big old dog in there. There's just.

[B]

Sorry. This fun is super hot. It feels, like, inappropriate for that. Kids.

[A]

No, you're fawning for the fun, and his name is Mr. Thomas, and we all knew that. And you want to tap that Tom. Nasty ass. Listen what I'm saying. No, I can't wait to make this Point. You ladies did this, and. And you did it to illustrate your relationship, and you did that to sell a show that's about your thing. Going back and keeping in mind that the reason I think they bought Girls was because Lena is so good at showcasing naked and raw, who she is. So you. You. You've come through the wardrobe. Going back to that. And I'm Mr. Thomas with my big old fawn, and I'm here to greet you with great enthusiasm to the world of comedy and comedy show business, because the story of you two failing at this humiliating endeavor is the cleanest, purest. I'm sticking my knife in that cocaine and snorting it, and I'm gonna buy all of it because you guys are dorks. You're hardcore fucking dorks. That's what the show is about. How perfect. So now, instead of showing the video, you could still do it. You just tell the story of how you wanted to do that, but you fucked it up. What could be more? It's like, right, you drop a cinder block on your foot on the way to the show, and in a drama, they're frantically bandaging you and giving you Tylenol. Tylenol. Back in the news, I'm saying they're giving you painkillers so you can be Willy Loman, because Willy Loman doesn't have a broken foot. But a comedian goes on and does 15 minutes about how he dropped a cinder block on his foot. That becomes the show. You're in the right place. Welcome to Narnia.

[B]

Thank you, Mr. Tumnus.

[A]

I can't wait to show you my manscaped fawn part.

[B]

Your flute.

[A]

Check out this. Oh, it's definitely like a tri flute. Like, there's three bamboos tied together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can you hear this coffee being poured right now?

[A]

No, man.

[B]

Zoom to the mic. I know. Zoom really is like, you only get to hear the voice and nothing else.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. But yet every Zoom starts with 20 minutes of you're on mute. I can't hear you. Change the input. I don't understand.

[B]

We've again, for. For our age, people, but to your point, by the way.

[A]

So I disagree with that. I think everybody's farting, struggling, whirlpool. Yeah, because then you're on Google Meet, and Google Meet just defaults to joining the meeting on Zoom. If we could have all the time we've said, I think you're on mute back, we could watch Phantom Thread.

[B]

Great. Yeah, I. I do. Going back to the Lena Dunham of it, it's so interesting, because that's the thing that, you know, Gen Z thinks that millennials are so cringe because we're so earnest and, like. Oh. And, you know. Yeah, that's. That's the main thing. We're, like, earnest and vulnerable, and we're, like, childlike and playful. It's like millennials are so cringe, they just want to be like children again.

[A]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[B]

But I think that. Again, I think that that is the. Just the age difference right now. Like, I think every generation, when they're in their 20s, feels that way about the previous generation because they're still in the phase where they're like, being cool is everything. And then they look at the generation ahead of them that has totally forgotten to try to be cool, and they're like, what? You're not even gonna try to be cool? That's cringe. That's gross.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. But that being said, there is something unique about millennials, and I think Lena Dunham, as a voice of our generation, thinking of her being one of the voices of our generation or a voice of a generation.

[A]

Yes. This is a girl's reference. If you don't understand this.

[B]

It's in the pilot. She did sort of, you know, help millennials like me be like, wait, maybe you don't have to try to be cool. Maybe the braver and. And, like, more interesting thing is to just be really honest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And every time I do that, including pretty much every episode of this podcast, I'm always like. I always am like. Or is it. Is that right? Like, I hope that's right. I hope I shouldn't be trying to be cool, because I. I honestly forgot how.

[A]

No, you know what being cool is, Val? You ever go to a mall and there's those white boards? It's not boards, but it's like a. It blocks the construction. And it says, like, coming soon. Made. Well, there's going to be a madewell here, but they put up the white thing, and sometimes there's a drawing of, like, the mall on it.

[B]

Yeah, the. The mall you're standing in.

[A]

Yeah, you're at the mall, and you pass a wall that has a picture of the mall on the wall, and you go like, oh, there's. Yeah, there's gonna be a madewell here. That's all. Being cool. Being cool is the. Is the scaffold. It's not scaffold. It's like the. The veiling of your desperate attempts to get it together. So you start saying, like, cool things, and being quiet is always cool. Kind of like being thinking things are stupid is cool. It's just something that it's a temporary shield while you figure who you are out. Even though we all know you don't know. You have no idea. I'm saying I had no idea. And I get a strong sense that they don't have an idea. And that's where skibidi toilet comes from. And that's where six seven comes from. All I see is a temporary wall that says I'll be. I'll be something more certain soon. But in the meantime, I can't bear you looking at me. I can't stand how fucking uncomfortable it is for you to look at me as I'm develop you a pervert. I'm talking about my personality by the way. It's still gross. So I'm going to put up the madewell wall and then I'll take it down later and I'll stop saying Skibidi toilet.

[B]

This is fantastic. That's exactly right.

[A]

That's what being cool is.

[B]

That is. And that's exactly the feeling of being a teenager, early 20s. Like I remember being like, I don't even know what phone case to get. Like, am I a yellow person? Am I like. It felt like every choice is like, this is going to say something about my identity. And I don't know. I still haven't even met that bitch.

[A]

I don't know. When I was picking who I was going to be in Street Fighter, I remember it. I remember being in my parents car and like giving it a long think and I decided on Ryu. I was like, I think I'm classic.

[B]

You were right. You are.

[A]

Yes, I have Ken aspirations, but really I'm pretty worried that I'm Ryu, but at least I'm not Akuma. He wasn't available yet, but those choices were life and death to me. And when I was in the arcade and I picked Ryu, I waited for someone to be like, I see you totally well, like, what is my soda? This is why they market so much to younger people. Because it. Because we. And it's not that younger people are fools, it's that they're desperate and not bad desperate, but they're hungry to define themselves, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I do think also this might be because, you know, there are people our age and older that are still like trying to be cool, I think. And I think that there just you and I are specific wounds need to be seen and loved for who we really are.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And even like our nastiest parts, that's Right. So that's why we. We so readily, like, offer them up, is because it's worth being, especially because we have each other and we have, a hundred percent of the time, I would say, been able to do that for each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of us is like, I have this really dark thought, or I have this really weird thing. The other one is like, oh, I have that. Or everybody has that personally, you know?

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

So I think that emboldens me at least to. To be like, that feels really good when I tell somebody my. My most embarrassing things, and they're like, yeah, that's Narnia or whatever, that it makes it worth doing that. But other people, you know, maybe they've had experiences doing that, and. And it wasn't well received. And so then the protection becomes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm gonna keep the madewell shield up even though the store's done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody gets to go in the store.

[A]

Right. And. And that is cool to a certain extent. It's just not for me.

[B]

I can't do it. I can't do it either because I would feel like. Like a fundamental necessity for me, which is being seen and known, like, truly known.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wouldn't exist because anybody who knew that Persona, it wouldn't mean anything.

[A]

Right, right, right. Well, it's funny that you keep kind of alluding to how. And I, you know, I have a joke about how being quiet is cool because you don't give away your position and it's subtle. And we just had Julia White on the podcast. That's the ultimate loud, like, got me cheese. It's not chill. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But some people, after they've developed, just naturally are quiet still people. Like, I'm thinking of some of the people we know, and I don't think they're being fake, but, like, a lot of us think, like, that's a safe place to develop. It's a good cocoon. Like, if I'm going to be something, I might as well be the least something. I can be the most quiet, most private version of myself, because I don't want anything to be on the record just yet.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And that being said, having said that, I am now thinking about how dorky my. My own mother is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I love her. She's fantastic. But she, you know, she's. And I don't know if it's just because it's not just because she's my mom, because other people see it too, but, like, she's a true dork, and I think she would own that. And so I'm like, I also. I don't know. I don't know where the line is or how to find it. I think authenticity now.

[A]

Okay, go ahead.

[B]

I don't know. What do you.

[A]

You know, I was just going to say the reason why I'm not going to say your mom bothers me because what if she hears this? Jk, one of the things that can not be my favorite is constant talking. Okay, wait, let's. Let's take your mom out of this. I think your mom is great.

[B]

My mom's great. She really is great. Of course. Completely unrelated topic. Constant talking.

[A]

Constant talking for no reason. Isn't. Isn't chill. I know I'm using, like, young people languages, but, like, one of the things we're talking about, young people being cool, but they also want you to be cool. And one of the things I say to Leela the most is be cool. Like, let's just, like, chill the beans a little bit. And one of the things that I want to say to people that are talking a lot, whether or not that's your mom is beautiful. Be cool, please. Just give me space to exist. And now I'll bring my mom into this. She was always barging into my room, whipping covers off, singing church songs. It was not cool. And then going back to the madewell thing. If I'm trying to build my store and all you're doing is planning and asserting your take or, like, your feelings about every single thing that's going on in your life, I literally don't. Hypothetically. I literally don't have room to figure out who I am. So kids want to be cool, but they also want you to fucking be cool. Because I remember being like, can everybody just like, I still feel this way a lot of the time. That's why I hate planning. It's like, yeah, and you are so brilliant at it. You know, it's like a thing for me. So you always say, as I think everyone should. Do you have room to discuss schedule right now? Because you don't know what I'm thinking about. Like, I could be in the middle of a. Something emotional or creative. It doesn't. It doesn't have to be important, but when someone goes, like, where will you be a week from Thursday? You just, you know, you farted in the elevator. It's all that's happening now is me thinking about a week from Thursday. It fills me with panic. So kids want to be cool, but they want you to be cool. And that's why, like, I was actually Just thinking about this, I was like, one of the moves I like to do as a parent is be quiet with Leela. And you do it, too, of course. Because it's just space for them. I mean, what could she be thinking about? What is water? Or, you know, or like. Or like, maybe I'll be Blanca. By the way, Leela is a hundred percent Blanca.

[B]

She is, actually. She's effortlessly the coolest person. And we're not the only ones that think that, like, our friends who have kids her same age are still, like, Leela is. No.

[A]

And I think. I think it's because we haven't gone out of our way to ruin it.

[B]

No. It really is just naturally who.

[A]

She name her Valerie Jr. And. And we didn't induct her into a sports team. And not. Nothing wrong with that. Most people do that. I shouldn't have said that. I'm just saying, like, we've been pretty. Like, let's see how this thing grows on its own. And frankly, we just got really lucky that. That she's very cool.

[B]

She's very cool, and she. She does have really cool thoughts. Like last night, I've been also during bedtime, usually she wants us to tell a story or, like, sing a song or something. And I've been trying to just let there be silence because she is having her coolest thoughts at that time. Like, it's like her body is finally relaxed enough.

[A]

Please, just give us space. Everybody just needs a little space.

[B]

Oh, it's so cool. And she. It's so. There's two really cool ones. This one was a real insight into how she is. And this is also lines up with Dr. Becky Kennedy's deeply Feeling Kids, which Leela, I believe, is one. But she. I think we were saying something. Oh, no. We were listening to a little, like, bedtime story, and it said something like, let your heart soft. Soften and fill with love or something. And so I was, like, touching each part of the. Like, let your legs relax. Let your bo. Your. And I was, like, massaging each part. So then I, like, touched her heart, and I was like, let your heart fill with love. I just, like, repeated it. And she was like, yeah, but too much love can hurt you.

[A]

What?

[B]

And I was like. At first I went, no. And then I was like, oh, don't do that. Like, don't. And I just was like, what do you mean? And she was like, too. She was like, too much love. Like, if somebody comes with too much love for you, you'll have to dodge it.

[A]

What?

[B]

And I Was like, oh, do you feel that way sometimes? Like, people are loving you too much? And she's. And I was like. And she's like, yeah. And I was like, why do you feel like you have to dodge it? And she's like, because it's just like. Then you just have, like, so much love. And you're just like, oh. I was like, so much love. And then it hurts, so you have to dodge it. And I was like, that is so exactly her. Like, can't you see that she. She doesn't want us to say, like. Like, I just want to, like, hold her face and be like, you are the perfect kid for me. I. I miss you when you're gone and when you're sleeping, and I love you. And. And she, like, anytime I even say a whisper of something like that, she, like, punches my body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like, bites me or like, that. Just can't. She's like, no, don't, don't. It's too much intimacy. But it's because she actually is so filled with love and it's so vulnerable. And she's. She feels everything 10 out of 10. So she feels love 10 out of 10, too. And it's just like, ah.

[A]

And she's not numb to experience. Like, I. I think so much of. Forget social media. I'm just like, Just emails and. And constant relationships and driving and all. I'm just saying life.

[B]

Yeah, you.

[A]

You have to, like, numb a little bit. And I think Leela, like, I. I heard Louis ck, Complicated person, acknowledged, was on Theo Vaughn's podcast, and they were talking about sex and love Addict. It actually sounded to me it was beautiful that there's been some work happening, and I found it meaningful to listen to complicated people on both ends of that. I don't know what I have to say. I'm saying somebody sent a clip of it to me and I listened to it.

[B]

It was Louis C.K. and who.

[A]

And Theo Vaughn.

[B]

Oh. And they were talking about both being sex and love addicts, or.

[A]

Yeah, I believe so that they go to meetings for that. And the thing that I wanted to share with the appropriate acknowledgment of everything happening is that Louis, like, in part of his sex and love addict thing, was not masturbating for, like, a couple months and really getting in touch. It was very up your alley. And I say that with all the surprise that it's warranted. And it was. And I thought it was. It was kind of like being at a sex and love addicts meeting was a lot of vulnerability. And they were talking about, like, what you and I talk about, which is, like, what are you unwilling to feel right now? And when I turn to food or masturbation or whatever it is, it is interesting to go, what are you avoiding right now?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Louis was like, you know, when I stop, it was very Rupert Spira, to be honest. It's like when I stop and allow the feeling, he's like, I see colors and shapes, and he's like. He acknowledges. It's like it's a sensation. It passes through your body, and it just wants to be honored. And. And the. The thing that I really wanted to share was that after months of not masturbating, he was like, I'm gonna do it. It's not to, like, habitualize it again or anything like that. It's just to visit this place that I used to be. And it sounds like he talks to his inner child a lot. Like he has a dialogue going with him all the time. And then he did it, and afterwards, he was like, that's no joke. Like, that's serious. It wasn't judging it. It was just like, holy shit. The amount of sensation. Yeah. It was like stepping on a live wire, like, charged through his body and the emotions and the sensations, and it was like, seeing it clearly. And I know maybe that's a strange place to go from saying that Leela feels so much, but I'm like, I think when we get honest and get quiet and curious and all the things that our higher selves are curious and. And whatever. Whatever the other c words are. Do you know them? It doesn't matter. We can see how raw, just ordinary experiences that. Like, what your brain gives you is, eat a donut. And if you can just put that to one side for 45 seconds and go, what's going on here? Not only will you see the enormity of the feeling that's right under eat a donut or jerk off or whatever, you'll actually. If you're brave, and I can't always do this. Please don't. I think everyone knows that, but when I can spelunk into it, I'm like, oh, my God. This is like a screensaver. It's like fireworks. And none of it is bad. All of it is right, neutral to good. Even the unpleasant ones are made out of good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Goodness. I know. That doesn't make any sense.

[B]

No.

[A]

Rupert talks about that. He's like, even hate is made out of love. He's like, there's only this one thing that is accepting and Allowing and spacious and peaceful. We could call that love. And that love can. That screen can be used to do hateful things and say hateful things and feel negative stuff, but explore it and excavate it. You see that even negative things are made out of positive things and that. I know that sounds trite, but that's been my experience.

[B]

Totally. I've experienced that. I've said that on the podcast.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[B]

Ripped from your brain usually come to is being like, oh, it's not like, get through the bad to get to the good. The bad and the good are swirled together. And like. And I wouldn't have it any other way. It's not like, oh, there's always going to be bad in here. It's like, no, this feels like a chocolate vanilla swirl in my body.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And it's. They're essential to each other.

[A]

That was. That was. Oh, sorry.

[B]

Right. And even to the point that then good and bad lose their meaning. And it is. It's just sort of what is happening, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Also, so interesting that you're watching or that you watched that clip because I'm. Sex and lug addiction has been really on my mind grapes. Because.

[A]

Mind grapes. Oh, right. 30.

[B]

30 rock reference. Because I just read. I finished Elizabeth Gilbert's new book. And I mean, I guess. Spoiler. I guess there's spoilers in this, what I'm about to say. But also, it's like, if you hear her talk about it on any podcast, she's gonna tell this information. Um, but yeah, so she sort of through this really fucked up, kind of dark night of the soul with her partner Raya, who was dying, found out that she is a sex and love addict. And so I feel. So there's just been a lot about like her recovery or her figuring out that she's a love. Sex and love addict. And. And really what she says in there is she's like, addiction is. Addiction is addiction. So like her. Her sex and love addiction is the same as Raya's, you know, heroin addiction or cocaine addiction.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And it all is that exact thing. It's like just avoiding numbing. Obviously, we know this. This is. This is obvious, but it's. There's something that's sort of comforting about.

[A]

I like it. I wouldn't sell that short. I think that's bears repeating. And you're making a wonderful point being wanting to eat nine dinner rolls is the same thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Keep going. I'm just.

[B]

And even to the point where I was like, man, like, I'M reading this and I really am trying to take an honest look to be like, am I a sex and love addict? And I'm just, you know, the thing about, like, it's not a problem being a heroin addict if you can constantly get heroin. It's just like when, when you have a hard time getting it and then you start stealing money and you start going to shady places for it and, you know, whatever. Obviously I don't think that's true, but I've heard that being said, it's like the, the acquiring of it and the lack of it and, you know, and so I was like, am I a sex and love addict? But I just am in such a wonderful, loving relationship, so I don't know it yet. You know, I don't think that's what I would identify as at this point. But the truth is that it's like, sure, the potential is there for anything to become an addiction. And it's seed is this thing that we're all doing to various degrees, which is avoiding our uncomfortable feelings. So I'm like, yeah, of course there are times when I distract myself with fantasy or masturbation or relationship or whatever because there's something that's uncomfortable that I don't want to feel. And I think it's, it's like it's all the same thing. It's just varying degrees. And it's how often you can notice that and come back and notice that and come back and it's not going to be every time, you know, but it's the only difference between that and like, what Liz Gilbert went through and what even Louis CK Went through is that I just have been fortunate enough to have the resources to have the practice of noticing when it's. When I'm distracting myself, even if it's been for months, and then being like, okay, right, what am I unwilling to feel? And that's. I say that and, and maybe that is really controversial to say about Louis CK I don't know his. I don't know his situation. But it seems like with sex and love addicts and all addicts, this is why it's like such a complicated thing, because it is a disease that also makes you hurt other people. It's like, we should treat it like a disease and it also hurt other people. So you do have your own peace to make with that and boundaries to set. But like, as she says in the book, she's like, addicts don't deserve your contempt. They, you know, they're, they're essentially doing what we're all doing. They've just taken it to such a degree that it started destroying their life and maybe some other people's lives. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Hurting others. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it does. And the love part of it, which I know you can relate to, it's funny. So I'm in Toronto and I'm shooting this movie and Natasha Leggero is one of the people in the movie. And she, she sent me this clip. I asked her to send it to me and it was just kind of like a. I don't know, it was. It was somebody kind of hating on comedy. I don't even know why I watched it. And it was rather funny that. Well, actually, I do know why I watched it is because there's a certain deliciousness of being somebody that they're not talking shit about, you know? Interesting. Oh, I'm a good comedian and this is a video about somebody shitting on bad comedian. And it's just another type of drug is I'll be like, oh, by not being included in this video, I will exalt myself. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then I was watching it and like within 30 seconds I was like, I don't need to be watching this. This is, this is the dark side. I'm going to need to do everything I can. You know, I'm going into YouTube and saying, like, not interested. You know, afterwards, like really, like going like, please don't. Because it did. It started being like the downfall of James Corden.

[B]

And I'm like, you like the nasty delicious. I see.

[A]

Exactly. It's like, it's like a friend. YouTube is just being the friend you.

[B]

Think you want, mirroring you hard.

[A]

And it's like, you want to talk shit? Okay, let's talk shit. So the rather funny, rather funny thing that happened was it didn't talk shit about me, but in the beginning, when it's talking about how like stand up comedy is over, I was in the montage. So there I was like, my face. How fucking funny is that, Val? I'm going like, oh, this is wicked. And I've watched some other videos like that and. And you get this like sort of nasty bump from it. And then there I am in the video. It reminded me of when Jed told me the story of clicking on a link about dad bods, like making fun of dad bods. And he was the photo, like. So he's like, oh, this'll be fun. Let's laugh at dad bods. And then he's the picture. This was me going like, oh, yeah, let's take down bad standups and then I'm in the montage. But anyway, I didn't agree with the montage, by the way. I didn't agree with the video, everything about it. I was just like, what am I doing? It was kind of like going into, like, some sort of museum of deformities or, you know, like one of those, like, things. You're just like, what am I doing?

[B]

Yeah. It's a low frequency entertainment.

[A]

It's funny that you said that, because the rest of the day I was like, I'm gonna be kind, like, overly kind to everybody. To offset just the rumbling of that, how it felt for me. Maybe other people don't feel that way, but anyway, it made. It made me feel like I went into, like, a lower frequency place. And that's fine, but. But then to go into your sex, just to relate to your sex and love thing. Last night, I, you know, you and Lila were here and you guys just left. So I got my first night of, like, solo sleep, and I had tons and tons of dreams. And I woke up and remembered that one of the dreams was that the guy who made the video somehow saw that I watched the video and then called me. And I was thrilled because I wanted to convince him to like me.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I. What I was unwilling to feel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And very clearly was someone thinks I'm corny, stupid, and in the way of comedy. And it ignited in me this intense desire. I mean, I want to go on a road trip with this guy. I want to show them that I. Because they. It doesn't matter. It did talk about some of the comedians that they liked, and I was like, I'm like, those comedians. Yeah, those comedians like me.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

We were friends. And I want to be like. It was the least safe feeling in the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To open the window to an unsafe neighborhood. And even. They didn't even say anything about me. I was just in the. And I was like, I gotta win this person over. And then it was like. It took a lot of work to be like, no, you don't.

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

By the way, it's in that special. My last special. I am not for everyone. That's the name of the special. That's the name of the special. And that is a guy, maybe a love addict. I don't know, an approval addiction. I. I'm not ready to say that. I am ready to say that. Someone who deeply equates safety with people thinking he's good and okay. You know, like a good Good guy.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And a. And good at what he does. And it's like just watching probably 45 seconds of this video was enough to give me a dream. And it was a good dream. It was me being like guys, you got it all wrong.

[B]

Win you over. Well, that's essentially what stand up room of people. And how many times have you said what's better than just killing constantly is starting with an audience that's not great. And then winning them over. Like that's the whole. And I have the exact same thing. Let's go to the mid rolls though because I have more to say about that. But my computer's about to die so I have to.

[A]

I also have to plug my computer in. Oh my God. When we come back, I want to talk about the movie I'm shooting because I. I died yesterday or two days ago. I want to talk about dying.

[B]

But I.

[A]

This is about this.

[B]

Yeah. I have a few more thoughts about. About this.

[A]

I'm just trying to say something. I do have a funny story. I'm just teasing, like don't go away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And thank you for listening to the ads and or not listening to the ads and using the promo code. I don't care what you do, but thank you for being here. We'll be right back.

[C]

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Try it.

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[A]

Omg. We are the same. We took exactly the same amount of time.

[B]

And did you plug yours in and then go pee?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, my God. We are the same.

[A]

We're in the flow and we flow at the same rate. It was great.

[B]

So good. So good. Just what I needed.

[A]

Just exactly what we needed. Welcome back.

[B]

Welcome back. Okay, so, yes. I just wanted to say just a couple more things about. So that is the part of Liz Gilbert talking about sex and love addiction that I was like, rut Roe. I really relate to this, which is.

[A]

That I don't think retro ever went away. By the way. I think it as soon as it was funny, as soon as it was funny, it's been the most steady blue chip stock.

[B]

It really is. And don't you just like. I can't see it ever getting old.

[A]

Because it's not easy to remember. I don't. I. It's kind of. It has a shape and it's like a gear. It's hard to hold on to it.

[B]

I do know people who maybe overuse it and I. And I do want to say, like, hold on to that. Like a treasure and only use it when you. Absolutely.

[A]

I agree. I agree. It's like my wife in that way.

[B]

What?

[A]

My wife.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It's not like you.

[B]

Oh, okay. My life. Yeah. But I, I just. The part about it where she talks about like basically just getting a hundred percent of your self worth from another person and. Or from external things outside of you.

[A]

You said that so well.

[B]

It really get it. Oh my God. I think I might be brilliant.

[A]

You are.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Don't do that.

[B]

Don't, don't.

[A]

Don't joke.

[B]

That is a deep cut. That is a Family Stone reference.

[A]

Don't do that.

[B]

Don't do that. Don't joke. It's a part of it. That's a part of a movie that we hate. Wait, that is a part that we hate of a movie that we love.

[A]

And it's. I want to say it's nobody's fault. It just kind of came out wrong.

[B]

It's nobody's fault. Some things aren't.

[A]

Don't joke. It just wasn't quite right. Keep going.

[B]

But yeah, so I do think that it is connected to the. Like, if somebody doesn't like me, I have to convince that it actually doesn't matter if every other person on the planet loved me. I have to convince that one person. Otherwise the whole thing is in the trash. And this is how, you know, that's sort of fucked up is that it's black and white. It's like nothing in life is that black and white. And something that my therapist can't stop saying to me is, it's just a given that some people aren't going to like you. And I'm just like, I think you're thinking of everybody else, But I might be the one person that I could get everybody to like me.

[A]

This is the wound that I. I mean, I don't want either of us to have wounds, but if you're gonna have a wound. Let me put it this way. I was just talking to one of the drivers on this movie. In Canada, they call it the show on this show. And we just immediately Started bonding over older guy, over our fathers. And it turns out we had very similar, like, amazing immediately, just a resonance. And we started talking and we got into it, and our families are very, very, very similar. And then we started talking about why. And this guy isn't like me. He's. He's a very different person. So it wasn't just like, oh, you're like me, very different guy. But I'm saying underneath the surface, there's this vibrating wound, and you and I have this wound, and it's still very uncomfortable if I think somebody doesn't like me. Even being 10 years older than you, I'm still working on that. I'll say. What. One of the things that Rupert says about it, Rupert Spira, is that he's like, when. Whenever something is taken from you, in this case, the security that someone likes you is taken from you. The sense that the ignorance is bliss illusion that everyone likes you is cracked by like, oh, this guy almost definitely doesn't like me. Or, you know, your examples. Like, people sometimes don't like us. So something has taken from us that feeling of security. And, you know, this is kind of Ram Dassy, too. It's just like, it's a gift if something's taken from you and you're still there. It's an opportunity to explore the okayness of the self that remains. And. And it's not avoiding that this person may or may not like me. I don't know. Even. I'll bring Byron Katie into this, even if this person thinks they don't like me. Are people in touch with what they do and don't like and why they don't like it? You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Someone can be mad at you because you stole their bike when you were kids, but that's not even it. We know how complicated humans are, so it's not even. It's so nebulous and strange out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's no use in getting all worked up about that. But when I like you guys just left, I'll inevitably get lonely. Okay? My wife and daughter and that familiarity aren't with me. Okay? That's an opportunity to explore the nature of the me that I think isn't okay. And we're back to what we were saying about spelunking into those feelings and discovering that they're made out of the most beautiful fireworks in the world. Even your loneliness is made out of beautiful fireworks.

[B]

Right? Right. Well, that is so Elizabeth Gilbert got so. You know, when you're a sex and love Addict. Like, getting sober is such an interesting concept. Like, it's so unique to what you and your sponsor decide is sober for you, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And she was, you know, for her, she had decided that it was like no dating at all, no romantic relationships for a long time. And then even after she got the clear. The like, all clear to date, by then she was sort of like, I've worked so hard to get this self assuredness, like, you know, self security. I'm not gonna just like hand it over now. So she hasn't been romantic with anyone and has been celibate for five years at least. Like, probably longer now because that was at the book, the. When she had written the book. But she said, she explains the like process of getting sober. And she is explaining all of this where it's like the feeling of being alone and it was just like terrifying and all of the. And. And she really cut herself off of like, I think like tv, food, you know, like deaf booze, alcohol, like anything that was like numbing those feelings to really get to sit in those feelings. And. And she said a lot, like the Louis CK thing, it sounds like, is once she got. They say. She said that they say in, in AA that it takes about five years of sobriety for you to start to get your marbles back. So it's like for you to really come out of the haze of everything that you've been through and in. And at that point, she for the first time made contact with her child self, like for the first time once she had gotten her marbles back, basically. So, yeah, all of that is to say that it. It's always, you know, the treasure you seek is in the cave that you don't want to go into. And all of this, I mean, we're just saying the same thing over and over again. But I can really use the reminder. And it's so also interesting that you are having that experience with us leaving. Like, having to remember that you're okay. And even the part of you that isn't okay is fireworks. And you know, because I'm over here doing the same thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which is sort of interesting. Like, it's.

[A]

Well, what could be a greater treasure than to realize you're not. Okayness is made of okayness. I think that's another way of saying awakened or enlightened is just going like. I remember. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I was just excited to tell you that. And. And also I remember, I think it was Adyashanti said Enjoy yourself even when you're not. So it's like what's playing on the movie sucks, but the quality of the screen is always pristine. Am I Dr. Seuss this episode? I don't know why.

[B]

You really are very rhymey.

[A]

I don't know why. And it's all. I tried to think of a better word than pristine.

[B]

Pristine is the only one.

[A]

It was the right word.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's the synonym for pristine but in.

[B]

Even on again, like a very grounded level.

[A]

Unblemished.

[B]

Once we reel at unblemished. Nice.

[A]

But that, yeah, gross. Sorry.

[B]

Yes. Like what? The only way that I have found to learn that I'm okay and to find safety in my aloneness, like just on my own, I guess. And this is a constant work in progress. Like, I do not have this down. I still, every time you leave for something, I go, am I going to be able to do this? Am I going to panic? Am I going to end up like in the hospital because I've had a panic attack and somebody has to take care of my kid. Like I, I, I have all of these old programs that are like, when I'm alone, I'm not safe. But now I sort of just let them run and I go like, okay, whatever, let's just make breakfast, you fucking weirdo. Just kidding. Loving. Loving that part of me. But yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I just, I lost it.

[A]

Oh no.

[B]

What was it? Shoot.

[A]

What does sober look like to you? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. The only way that I have even found any safety in being alone is constantly having those feelings and being with those feelings and letting them ride out. So actually it's like this. When I have those feelings of like, what if I panic? What if I, I just go, I deep it, I like reach into the deep well of the hundreds of times that I've felt that way and worse and I've gotten myself through it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like that's hard earned resiliency. Like at all. Resilience is very hard earned. It's not resiliency. I always say that, but it's resilience. I think resiliency, maybe that is a word. I don't know. But like, yeah, there's just no other way out than through and just being like, actually I've been here before. I think this uncomfortable thing. I feel this uncomfortable thing. I've done it before. I know how this goes. Just let it.

[A]

Well, I just, through me, I just, But I'm gonna just for conversation and because I think you'll like it even move through me. Or the way out is through isn't quite right. And I know you know that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Because if you.

[A]

If we allow the emotion with a secret intent to get rid of it, it doesn't work.

[B]

It knows. It knows.

[A]

It's like going on a date and you're holding flowers, but there's a knife behind your back. Like, it doesn't work. You have to just go in with flowers. I just saw. Because I'm with you on a film set. And this isn't just this film set. It's every film set. It's every TV set. It's just. There's the most boredom you've ever felt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On a film set.

[B]

So boring and so unglamorous.

[A]

So unglamorous. I ran into somebody, his name was Will, and he's on the boys on Amazon because there's so many people that shoot things in Toronto. So I ran into him and I was like, I always forget that you get all ready to, like, be an actor and be a performer, and then you get to the set and he finished it. He went, and. And then nothing happens. And I was like, yes, nothing happens. And again, I'm not complaining. You just have to remember that you're actually going to be waiting or you're going to be, like, doing it longer. It doesn't matter. I'm boring myself talking about how boring it is. The point is, that is also an opportunity just in the same exact vein that we're talking, okay? So my stimulation has been taken from me my identity as a shiny boy who performs well. Now I'm just a guy in a chair. How about that, Chris? You know, I don't know why I said, chris. How about that? That's also an opportunity to explore the nature of your unokiness and go, like, this is okay. So my goal for this time I'm about to be spending and today included a lot of time alone. And I'm like, can we not watch videos about AI? Can I not masturbate or look at pornography? Can I not smoke weed? None of these things. By the way, I'm speaking to the Christian part of me raised Christian part. They're not wicked things, per se. They're just not. They're not very honest. They're not very embracing of reality. And that's really what sobriety has so much to do with. And I really want to be clear about this. Like, it's not wicked to smoke weed. But the times I've been on film sets and had, like, I have Three days off in a row. I have today, tomorrow, Sunday, obviously off in a row. So that's a long time. It's, it's. In fact, it's a full day longer than I'll be really effortlessly good at being alone. The third day I'll start being like, ruh roh row. So it's not weed. It's like the times I have been like, I'm gonna smoke pot and play video games. It just for me, I'm going into a room and there was nothing there. It just ended up being like a whole. It's like we already had this conversation when I was quitting drinking was like, these aren't classic nights. You know what I mean?

[B]

That's great.

[A]

I'm giving up these nights of getting lit and eating a pizza and watching some bullshit. But like, those nights are sort of self deleting anyway.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And that doesn't mean we need to be like groovy and always happy, but like, like an alien visiting Earth in a human body. Why not explore the true nature of your boredom? Why not explore the true nature of all of it? And not for a merit badge, but anyway, this is what I was gonna say.

[B]

Not for nothing.

[A]

Not for nothing. Not for nothing. But Rupert had a meditation. I didn't watch it, but it was called Peace is not a future feeling. It's not a feeling in the future. And I was like, yeah, that's talk about kind of basic wisdom. But it's like, now is the only available thing. I don't even want to call it a time. Now, let's call it a time. Now is the only time to feel happy. Now is the only time to feel peaceful. Now is the only time to feel fulfilled. Now is the only time for any of it. But we're like, if I could just fast forward through, you know, on the film set, if I could just be doing my scene, I'd be okay. Or then you get in like. Or if they could just wrap me, I'll be okay. Or if I could just eat a pizza, I'll be okay. And the mind is very happy keeping you in that endless treadmill you that this. Sorry, I'm all over the place because I'm very excited. The separate self isn't a thing that seeks and resists, means, wants stuff and wants to avoid other stuff. The separate self, meaning the part of you that isn't really real, ultimately is the activity of seeking and resisting. That's. That's classic Rupert. It's. That's the only thing to it. So when you can stop seeking orgasm, food, whatever, or resisting boredom, loneliness. If you can stop those things, the only thing that's left is the screen. The content of the movie becomes irrelevant and you're left to explore the nature, the ground of being. Which is. Which is okay, by the way. Just one more time. This is something that I'm practicing every day and can't do. But it is interesting to going in, to go into this time of isolation, surrendering to like, I'm not going to be feeling incredible dopamine hits the whole time.

[B]

Yeah, and that's okay, man. We're again, we're probably just right on track for us because it's like, it's basically like sober October.

[A]

Yeah, it is sober October right here.

[B]

It's fall and we're just like, all right, we got. We had sloppy summer and now it's really time. And that feeling. This is why I'm always so dry.

[A]

Another reason I love falling.

[B]

I know. This is why I'm always really drawn to the language and the philosophy of. Of AA and the 12, the other 12 step programs is. It's like. It's the same part of me that is loves watching Little Women please the. The Winona writers. Who's in Sarandon 1.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, I love Marmee and. And the like idea of like, temperance and simplicity. And it just is easier to remember your true self when there's not all the stuff.

[A]

Val, we're back to what we were saying about be cool. You're a kid. Be cool. So be cool to yourself. Give yourself some space. Don't constantly. I don't like when people are constantly talking to me. Well, stop constantly talking.

[B]

Constantly talking to yourself. That's.

[A]

If anybody talked to me as much as YouTube talks to me, I'd punch them in face.

[B]

Totally. I had a little bit of a.

[A]

Talking about bitcoin having.

[B]

I had a little moment like that too this morning. And I think it's just this slight little change that I have been reading more. So I've been looking at Instagram less because in the times when I'm just like, oh, I'll look at my phone and scroll, I'm instead picking up a book that I'm into and just that little change is making me like, slowing down my brain enough to be okay with some silence. Because it's silent when I'm reading. I can't read unless it's not. Unless it's silent.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So like, for example, this morning, especially when I'm alone or when you're not here. I have music going on all the time. Either music or TV is happening or a podcast all the time. It'. I need. I feel the need to, like, have distraction and feel like life is happening in the house outside of me.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

And this morning, I, like, came downstairs and lit my little pumpkin candles, and I, like, went to turn on music, and I was like, actually, it's so nice right now. I really. And I could just hear Leela playing in the other room, and she's just like. I said, no, you come over here, like, doing this tiny little, like, muddling. And I was like, this is exactly right. Like, that's. This. This is the sound of the moment. So all of that is to say simpler. Do less. Quiet. These are the things that are feeling right and, like. And it's, like, very, like, sober and sobering messages of, like, just surrender. Do less. It really is like, do less. And I'm feeling. Even in the, like, you know, conflicts or the. The stickier things in my life right now, I've been noticing that I'll, like, go over and over about, like, how I should handle it, how I did handle it, what I should do differently. Like, you know, just playing over these scenarios, and I'm really finding a lot of freedom and being like, I did the best I could. It went how it went, and I'm just gonna lay low for a minute. Like, I'm not gonna try to control every scenario, and I'm gonna just see what happens and just, like, surrender it over to life, you know?

[A]

Yeah, that's great.

[B]

So, yeah, that's it.

[A]

I love it. I love it.

[B]

This is my second coffee of the day, so. Coffee. It doesn't apply to coffee.

[A]

I know. It's funny that you say that, because I'm also jacked on caffeine. But, like, I don't know. It's kind of the. I could talk out the other side of my face and be like. It's also the sort of. The only game in town is, like, playing with the levels of your experience. But that's. That's for another. Another time. Let me ever so briefly. All I wanted to say was I'm in the slasher movie.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And this is. Who cares? I'm like, this is in. In conclusion, who cares? It was a trip. It was. It was actually rather strange to. To be chased by a guy in a mask and then killed.

[B]

Yeah. I really am so curious because we didn't get to talk about it because. Not because we weren't together, but because our Child was with us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like last night, we were. Tried to FaceTime you. And I was like, how was your day? And she was. Oh, she was like, the duck went down to the lemonade stand.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, okay.

[A]

We're.

[B]

Well, I actually.

[A]

I really appreciated that. That's a great feature of our marriage, is that we don't fight through that. We just go like, this isn't happening. But as such, you don't get to hear about being chased.

[B]

Yeah. Like, was it scary?

[A]

It was a little. I wouldn't say scary. It was. I had to. I feel so old. My quads. I had to ask somebody what part, what muscle that is. The quads. The front of my legs.

[B]

One of the main ones.

[A]

No, I know, I know. Tricep, bicep, and then I'm out. Pectoral glutes. Anyway, the quads. I had to turn and run. Like, I had to. First of all, I had to pretend I was looking at something scary and be scared, which remains, in my opinion, the most difficult acting there is, which is when you're looking at a lake and pretending you're seeing something scary in a lake, but not a little scary. Like, scary enough to make you feel freak out. Yellow fuck. Turn and run.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So much acting that we see somebody's pretending like they're looking at something. They're not looking at anything. It's a. It's a tennis ball on a stick or it's a lake. And. And I'm not saying I'm good at it. In fact, I don't feel very good at it. I would have loved for someone to give me the finger or something like that would have been easier. You're looking at a lake. The most tranquil thing.

[B]

The opposite of something scary and pretending it's frightening.

[A]

But then by turning and running. It was the turning and the running. My legs are so fucked up. I'm, like, walking downstairs gingerly. Like, it hurts to go downstairs. And I use my body, but it was just like a muscle that I don't get to. So I'm all fucked up from that. But then I had to. I don't know if it's a spoiler, if you don't want to know. I won't even tell you the name of the movie. And it won't be out for a year, so it can't be a spoiler. But I'm killed.

[B]

Say who the killer is.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I won't say who the killer is, but I'm killed with a shovel. So somebody is Raising a shovel up and hitting me. Like I'm falling on my back and then someone's hitting me with a shovel. And I was like, you can tell your body or your unconscious mind or whatever that it's just pretend as much as you want. When you lay down that night, you're like, that was weird, dude. Like, that was.

[B]

Of course. Of course. Your body really doesn't know the difference.

[A]

No. And we didn't do the blood or anything yet, but once we get to the blood, it's just going to be. That's another reason I didn't want Leela to visit set. First and foremost, she would have been bored out of her mind and become, you know, very distracting. But also I didn't want her to see her dad covered in bloody blood. Bloody blood? Corn syrup. I guess that wasn't a great story, but that's all I wanted to share.

[B]

It is really interesting. I often wonder about that. Like, I think I honestly, I could be wrong. I know everybody is saying, you know, everybody says that, like, filming a scary movie isn't actually scary and filming sex scenes isn't actually sexy. But I think I would be scared and I think I would be turned on.

[A]

Hilarious.

[B]

In both situations, I'm like, no, I don't think my brain really would know the difference or my body wouldn't know the difference.

[A]

In both cases, there's a good chance. I think. I don't know. I. I don't. I don't know if it's different. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like as a guy, and there's a physical sign that you're aroused, right?

[B]

You have.

[A]

And I've. I've also practiced every guy that's gotten ultrasound on their balls or, you know, all sorts of exams. Like, we're all pretty studied at. Don't get aroused. I don't know. I do think maybe I'm. I don't know. I can't. I. I mean, I'm uncomfortable. I'm like.

[B]

It also is uncomfortable.

[A]

I could put it out of my mind.

[B]

Yeah, that part I would believe. It's like, you're so. It's so awkward and uncomfortable that. That. That doesn't feel sexy necessarily. But as somebody who really loves sexual tension, I think it's like the. The awkwardness and the tension is my favorite part.

[A]

Well, look, I'm not trying to be a creeper, and I don't feel like a creeper. I'm just saying one of the perks of being a woman is there's no. There's no flag.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[A]

So you can be turned on by a tour of a library.

[B]

So you're nobody.

[A]

Nobody's the wiser.

[B]

You're saying you can actively try not to be turned on in those situations, and I do.

[A]

I just completely put it out of my mind.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think the thing that's. That's verging on creepy, that I'm not saying is if. Meaning this isn't something I've thought about, but if I didn't have a physical indication that I was aroused, maybe it.

[B]

Would be fun to realize yourself.

[A]

I'll allow myself to be aroused.

[B]

Sure. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

But I can. It's like shutting off a waterway. It's like, send the blood somewhere else. My foot is probably bright red during this. We're sending it. It's an auxiliary path. We're sending it to the foot.

[B]

But do you feel like that's a superpower.

[A]

Uncomfortable for the other person?

[B]

Of course. I. And. And on behalf of all of them, I think that's the right move. And thank you. But also, like, do you feel like you all. You weren't probably always able to just shut it off, like a valve?

[A]

I think when you're in junior high, that's. That's the I don't want to be called up to the front of the class, my foot's asleep kind of time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then at a certain point, it really. I mean, I can isolate. It's a very interesting thing to be able to go in your body and find the part that's like, are we gonna send stuff down here? And you just go, there's just a union guy going like, this is closed.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

I hope that's interesting. I felt like this was a really great episode, and I'm glad we did it.

[B]

I know I missed you. I missed you. I know I saw you yesterday, but.

[A]

Well, the first day can. Can be weird. That's why it really can't. When it occurred to me that we can do this, I was like, oh, let's do it over. Zoom.

[B]

Yeah. And I thought of this. You know, I was gonna text you this. That, like, because we've had such a long stent, an abnormally long stent of getting to be together, those ones are almost harder. It's like a muscle. So, like, when you're gone more regularly, I feel like it's a little easier for us to slip in and out, but. But because I'm really gotten quite accustomed to having you around. When I put Leela down last night and walked down the stairs. I was just like, so what, what do we do? We just don't. Who's. Who's even here to watch with?

[A]

I know. Watching alone, I tried to. Last night feels so stupid. Look, I'm not saying when I was single and acclimated to it, it was the best. Now I just put on a movie and I was like, that's why you go to YouTube or something. It's more engaging. You're clicking around, you're looking for stuff. It feels more like a relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like YouTube is going this. And you're like, kinda. This kinda. But just watching a movie. Hard, hard for me. I.

[B]

Do you know what? Because we try to find things that we like to do or we've tried to find things that we can do that we can't do with the other person to make it easier to be alone. And there's very few things. But watching. I will. I have to be active. So I will second screen it, which I never do when I'm around you because you.

[A]

Well, that's good. Great.

[B]

But yeah. Yes. Yesterday I was like, I'm a curmudgeon. No, no, it's. You're right. Second screening is awful. We should not be second screening.

[A]

But I think most people are second screening.

[B]

Yeah, we all know that. We shouldn't be, even those of us who are doing it. But yeah, last night when I was. I watched like two episodes of Parks and Rec and I second screened and I flossed and I lotioned my entire body and I got on the shake weight. Like I was never just sitting.

[A]

Yeah. It's funny that you say that because on days if I'm fasting, I use those brush picks that really like stimulate your gums. Like the first time I used it, it ripped the shit out of them and it bled and everything. Flossing gets a bad rap because it is something meaning to the addict mind or the. Or the something seeking mind. A good rough time with your gums. And there are some people that understand this and some that don't is kind of like smoking a cigarette or any of the other vices that we've talked about. But it's like an. It's like labeled, I think incorrectly as a nerd activity. I see someone flossing and I'm like, got the itch, huh?

[B]

Well, yeah, it sounds like the way that you floss is very different from the way that I floss.

[A]

I don't even. I don't even side with what I just said entirely. But the pick the picks that I use. The picksled pit.

[B]

That's some rebel.

[A]

That's a guy that would lick a car battery if. If he could.

[B]

It's the motorcycle of dental hygiene.

[A]

Oh, it sure is. I wish it looked cool. I'd do it all the time. Only the regular toothpick looks cool. Not none of the plastic.

[B]

Only that's the only mouth accessory that looks cool, I think. I mean, maybe grills, but cigarettes. Oh, right, I forgot about cigarettes.

[A]

But that's sort of changing in Toronto. Everybody smokes, by the way. Like, they have not gotten les memo.

[B]

So it's French.

[A]

It's French. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I loved. I love Toronto. I think it's one of my. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite cities in the world. And it's because. For so many reasons, but one of the things that I was surprised at was how fresh it is.

[A]

It's so fresh, but it doesn't. I don't know why it doesn't feel French in the way that Montreal feels French. It feels like. I don't know, it's a little more subtle here, and it's a little, like, I don't know, sexy or smokier. Montreal, to me, is like Cirque du Soleil French. And Toronto is sort of like, we don't get sick from smoking French.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. There's edgier French, but it's not as edgy as actual France because they're still Canadian, so they're very nice.

[A]

Totally. I know what you're talking about. Get it.

[B]

Great. Love it. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Yep. We're glad you were here. Thank you, everybody. And I'm so glad I got to spend this time with you, Val.

[B]

Me, too. All right, everybody, until next time, keep it crispy.