We Made It Weird #95

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — "We Made It Weird #95" (July 16, 2022)
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-host: Valerie Chaney

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Episode Overview

In this candid and humorous installment of the recurring "We Made It Weird" series, Pete Holmes and his wife, Valerie Chaney, dive into the peculiarities of everyday life, insecurity, spiritual striving, personal growth, and the paradoxes of the human condition. The episode combines light-hearted riffs with reflective conversation about presence, anxiety, love, and the ongoing journey to embrace imperfection, all delivered in their signature warm, funny, and introspective style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Time Feels Weird & Pandemic Disconnection

• The duo opens with riffs about not being able to process that it's 2022, referencing how the pandemic disrupted their sense of time and normalcy. (“I still feel like it’s 2021.” [00:21])
• Quick introduction morphs into a playful post-apocalyptic radio-broadcast bit, replete with canned peaches, peach/BM jokes, and a reflection on their own lack of survival skills. ([08:18–09:16])

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2. High School & Pop Culture Pretensions

• Pete coins "Dr. Frankenstein moments"—those obvious, eye-rolly pedantic corrections (like "Frankenstein's monster" or stalactite vs. stalagmite debates). ([09:28])
• Valerie admits to faking knowledge on certain things (like cloud types), prompting a riff about learning and pretending in adulthood. ([10:23])

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3. Movies & Evolving Perspectives

• The couple discusses movies that impacted them, particularly “American Beauty” and “Dead Poet’s Society.”
• Valerie reflects on how, as a young viewer, she found the iconic "plastic bag" scene to be deep, but as an adult, sees it as pretentious. However, she later circles back to finding value in the scene’s demonstration of "holy seeing." ([15:47])
• Pete ties this to their daughter's toys, likening a child’s love for a shabby plaything to the way artists see beauty in the mundane:

  “There’s a way that an artist sees…when you’re having a transcendent experience, you’re transcending your judgmental mind.” ([23:45–24:32])

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4. Spirituality: Presence, Acceptance & The Heart

• Extended conversation about the practice and difficulty of staying "heart open"—remaining present and finding beauty—even when life is ordinary or challenging.

  “If you see everything that way, then everything is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.” — Pete ([26:06])
  “It’s not the design of life to stay there…We can cause a lot of disappointment and self-judgment if we think that’s the point.” — Valerie ([27:59])

• Valerie introduces mindfulness and loving-kindness practices, referencing Buddhist teacher Jack Kornfield:

  “The lungs breathe in and out; the heart opens and closes…allowing that, extending the loving kindness to yourself—whatever it is right now is totally fine.” ([38:36])

• Pete references Richard Rohr and spiritual writers, exploring ideas of surrender, flowing with reality, and the paradox that accepting imperfection leads to greater change and peace.

  “The paradox is, the moment that I truly accept myself as I am, I can begin to change.” — Valerie quoting Carl Rogers ([39:06])

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5. Vulnerability, Fragility & The Achiever Mindset

• After receiving a mildly critical email, Pete describes “instantaneous” emotional shifts (“I instantly went from the world is my friend to…every billboard I saw, I instantly hated it.” [35:21]) and confesses core anxieties:

  “My core negative belief is that I'm an idiot, and everyone will figure out it's an act…” ([31:28])

• “Bobby Barbarino” becomes a running bit about the fragile confidence of adults presenting like they have it together, but being “three things away from just eating ice cream in sweatpants.” ([32:26])

• They tie this to “The Achiever” Enneagram type (always fearing the revelation of incompetence or failure), and the dichotomy of “all or nothing”—both in ambition and in emotional highs/lows. ([33:43])

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6. Navigating Jealousy & Social Comparison

• The feeling of wanting to be “Bobby Barbarino” or an admired peer is connected to both the desire for attention and the discomfort of seeing others get it.
• Pete confesses: “I can’t handle other people getting attention…that’s been a problem.” ([35:00])

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7. Practicing Loving-Kindness & Self-Acceptance

• Valerie introduces the idea of dedicating 30 days to loving-kindness (Metta) meditation, describing the process of wishing happiness, health, safety, and freedom for oneself, loved ones, neutral people, difficult people, and all beings. ([36:12–37:59])
• She explains that even with meditation, resistance arises; the heart, like the lungs, naturally opens and closes. The goal is acceptance, not forced positivity:

  “Feelings aren’t problems that need to be fixed.” ([72:05])

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8. The Power and Trickery of the Mind/Brain

• Extended riff on how the mind always “wins” arguments—especially in justifying fears or comparative suffering.

  “If you enter into the courtroom of reason, the brain will go, ‘With that money, you can do this, so it’s okay.’ The brain will always win.” — Pete ([48:38])

• They relate this to Eckhart Tolle (“unconscious pain-body triggering”) and how close friendships or marriages can unconsciously "feed each other's pain bodies" through needling or comparison.

  “Why do we love to just shovel tons of food to pain bodies?” ([60:42])

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9. Letting Go of Self-Centeredness & The Church Analogy

• Pete references Richard Rohr on the “self-centeredness” of seeking everything in life (including church) as a “consumer” rather than a contributor or servant:

  “So many people go to church to get. Nobody goes to give.” ([66:03])

• This leads to discussion of humility, self-compassion, and the trap of endless external validation.

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10. Managing Emotions: Practical Techniques

• Valerie describes guided mindfulness inquiry (“Vipassana Out Loud”) she experienced with Tara Brach, where a partner names internal sensations and asks, “Can I be with this?” ([74:17])
  • Example script:
    • “What are you aware of right now?”
    • “Can you be with this?”
    • Mirroring back (“So, clenching in your chest, can you be with it?”)
  • Emphasizes the power of somatic awareness and compassionate witnessing:

    “Sometimes we just need…You are being comprehended right now. I am comprehending what you’re saying, which means you exist.” ([77:09])

• Pete reflects on how his own body tenses, and that even a small inquiry (“Can I just be with this?”) causes physical and emotional softening. ([75:37])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the "Plastic Bag" Scene (American Beauty):
  “There’s a way that an artist sees...when you're having a transcendent experience, you're transcending your judgmental mind.” — Pete ([23:45])

• On Mindfulness & Acceptance:
  “Feelings aren’t problems that need to be fixed.” — Valerie ([72:05])

• On Letting Go:
  “The paradox is the moment that I truly accept myself as I am, I can begin to change.” — Carl Rogers, quoted by Valerie ([39:06])

• On Self-Compassion:
  “Our hearts open and close, just like the lungs. Extending loving kindness to yourself: whatever it is right now is totally fine.” — Valerie ([38:36])

• On Self-Generating Joy:
  “There should be more time for feeling feelings…There should be more time for feeling.” — Pete ([72:49])

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Noteworthy Segment Timestamps

• 00:18–02:02: Pandemic time riff & live-show plug
• 08:18–09:16: Fallout shelter/“canned peaches” apocalypse game
• 12:23–15:47: Movie riff—discussing pretension of “American Beauty” & “Dead Poet’s Society”
• 23:45–26:11: The “plastic bag” metaphor and connecting it to mindfulness and presence
• 31:28–35:21: Pete unpacks emotional fragility, achiever mindset, and "Bobby Barbarino" metaphor
• 36:12–39:21: Valerie explains loving-kindness (Metta) meditation
• 48:10–50:03: The mind’s relentless logic, and the futility of mental rationalization for peace
• 60:42–62:23: Pain body activation in friendships + role playing/identity maintenance
• 66:03–68:34: Church as a consumer experience vs. spiritual community
• 74:17–78:59: Val leads a discussion on somatic inquiry—practical mindfulness with partner mirroring
• 80:35–80:42: Wrap-up: "Keep it crispy" sign-off

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Conclusion & Tone

This episode gently careens between comedic and contemplative, using Pete and Val’s chemistry, real-life struggles, and pop-culture observations as jumping-off points for insights about the search for presence, acceptance, and human connection. Listeners will relate to their admissions of insecurity, the paradoxes of spiritual growth, and the comforting, often hilarious, ways the couple supports and grounds each other.

The conversational tone is playful, humble, and vulnerable—the “weirdness” here is the universal weirdness of being alive—and the episode is as likely to elicit laughter as to invite honest self-reflection.

Transcript

[A]

You made it with.

[B]

You made it with.

[A]

You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos? I know what's happening with me. I gotta pee really bad.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos? This is Pete and Valerie. This is the Friday edition. It might come out on Saturday. Who knows? It's July 15th, maybe 16th, 2022. I still feel like it's 21.

[B]

I cannot believe it's 22.

[A]

No can believe.

[B]

I still feel like it's 2020 because.

[A]

That was the last time we were able to frolic on the beach, just licking each other's faces at random.

[B]

I'm not so glad you said faces. I didn't know where you. What? You're.

[A]

No, I'm not. Full of filth today, and this is a great episode. As usual, I unload some of my anxieties, and Valerie salves them with the salve that we all need. Valve salves Valve self. So thanks for joining us. We have a live Largo show. We just had one which was incredible. Bill Burr was there. River Butcher was there. Whitmer Thomas and Matt Goldich. It was awesome.

[B]

It was really fun.

[A]

And we do it every month. Go to largo-la.com and always great guests. And always me doing a good old hunk of sand. Up. Up top.

[B]

It's a big honk.

[A]

Oh, it's. It's like a chunky.

[B]

It's a chunky hunk.

[A]

It's a chunky of hunk.

[B]

Brass monkey. Yeah. Chunky hunky monkey.

[A]

Loved it. I'm gonna be in Montreal, Canada, for Just for Laughs. I'm gonna be in Cancun.

[B]

I'm gonna be both those places, too.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Val will be there for Just for laughs escapes. So if you. If you want to take a dream vacation to Cancun and see me and Dane Cook and Craig Robinson and other greats, look up.

[B]

You can coon.

[A]

You can coon. You can kin it.

[B]

Yes, we can Kuhn.

[A]

Yes, we can Kuhn. I'm just. I'm so out of gas from our pod. I'm just repeating what you said, but the pod is good.

[B]

Mm, terrible.

[A]

This is like Ty Glass's intro. Sometimes the intro sounds worse than the episode.

[B]

He says that.

[A]

He says that every time. This is a great episode. Let's get to it quickly. And here's a word from the Pete's Picks. If you like the show, support the show and try a Pete's Picks. Like Me Undies. What? Me Undies. Am I wearing blue plaid? Blue plaid Me Undies. Let me ask you something. Are you still trying to make plans with you this summer? As if you aren't booked and busy already, you're going to have to tell them to try again in the fall. You've got pool days, pride parades, bachelor parties and beach vacations waiting for you. It's a lot. But thankfully Me Undies wants to make this summer the most comfortable one you'll never forget. Because when you're living your best life, the last thing you want to worry about is is butt sweat. A butt sweat. Butt sweat. I heard about Me Undies on another podcast years ago and Valerie and I both did a complete underwear and loungewear overhaul. My PJ pants. My undies. I love the colorful prints. I don't go for the plain ones. I go for the colorful fun ones because I'm a colorful, fun guy and I haven't looked back. I absolutely love them. So when you're comfy and feeling good, you know you're more present to enjoy all of your summer plans. It's like science or something. Me Undies has the lightest and most breathable fabrics to keep you cool and comfortable wherever you go. I can attest to that. It's a very breathable undie. From undies, bralettes and socks to loungewear and swimwear, you can find something for all your plans. Meundies also releases new prints all the time, like their limited edition Pride collection. You can match with your partner, your friends or even your dog. Find your ultimate summer summer comfort in sizes extra small to 4 and XL. And MeUndies has a great offer for weirdos for any first time purchasers, you get 15% off for a limited time. If you sign up for their free to join Me Undies membership, you get 25% off your first membership item. So to get 15% off your first order, 25% off your first membership item and 100% satisfaction guarantee, go to meundies.comweird that's meundies.comweird and show your support of this show. Second up, it's been a Pete's pick for the longest time. It is Alpha Brain. Alpha Brain is a nootropic. Nootropic. Nootropic, which is basically a vitamin for your brain. It's like fish food for your noggin. It helps with memory, it helps with focus. In my personal experience, it helps very much with creativity. Whenever I'm doing a podcast like this one or I'm guesting on someone else's podcast, if I'm writing a script, if I'm doing standup, or if I'm just going out to a party and I want to have full access to, to my brain, I just take 2 or 3 Alpha brain 15 minutes beforehand. It is not a stimulant. It is probably the thing I turn on people to the most just in my regular life because they see me taking it. I was, I was shooting something today, I popped a couple in that were in my pocket. People always go, what is that? They want to know. And I tell them it's not a stimulant. It's not like caffeine. It doesn't get you all jacked up. It just gives your brain the earth grown nutrition, earth grown nutrition that it needs to function. And what, what wouldn't be better in your life if your brain worked a little bit better? I don't understand why all people aren't just taking this. It's made my life so much better. And if you want to try it to see if you like it, if you like it 110 as much as I do, you're going to your pants. Go to onnit.com weird. You'll get 10% off everything you see on that page, including alpha brain. I like it in the instant powder, which is flavored. I also like it in the pills. Sometimes I just pour the powder directly into my mouth because it gets into my blood faster. That's how much I love it. So go to onna.com weird show your support of the show and see if it'll change your life. Like it did to me. To me. Yeah, that's a sentence. Like it did to me. Last but not least, Everlane. Boom. I didn't even plan this. I'm wearing my Everlane everyday. Just classic gray sweatshirt. I love Everlane. They make some of the best looking, best fitting, highest quality clothing I've ever owned in my life. And, and I love, love, love how transparent they are with their factory practices. They're very ethical, they're very moral, beautiful company. And also they're very careful when it comes to plastic because you may be careful about the plastic you use in everyday life. I know a lot of us are, but it's easy to overlook the plastic from synthetic materials in our closets. Everlane has made it 90% of the way to having no new plastics in their entire apparel for footwear and packaging supply chain. And to combat that last 10% that currently doesn't have quality alternatives, they've created the next collective that's a fellowship program to boost innovation for ending new plastics in the fashion industry. So that means 100% of their shipping packaging is made from either 100% recycled plastic or FSC certified paper. 97% of their apparel materials containing polyester and nylon are made from certified recycled fibers. And more than 1 million pounds of nylon and 9 million plastic bottles have been recycled. Their new fellowship program brings diverse perspectives together to clean up the fashion industry. This year they've given $1 million in grants to entrepreneurs working to reduce new plastics. So what I'm talking about, they make incredible clothing, but it's feeling looking good and feeling good about looking good. I love supporting them. Applicants were considered based on their long term potential, community impact and collaboration. And each fellow kept ownership of their ideas and received $20,000 advance. Their project projects. I love their stuff. It's great to have them. If you want to support the show and want to look good while you're doing it, give Everlane a try. Be a part of the movement. For more sustainable clothing, go to everlane.comweird and sign up for 10% off your first order. That's 10% off your first order when you go to everlane.comweirds and sign up. Enjoy the episode. Guys, this is. We made it weird. 94.

[B]

4. Yeah. No, 95.

[A]

95. Are you sure?

[B]

Yep. 95.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Believe it or not. Get into it.

[A]

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. This is like. It's like a. Like a fallout shelter. This is our daily broadcast just to see if anyone at all is out there. It's been six weeks since the blinding light.

[B]

There's no way we're out of peach. And by that I mean canned peaches. Of course. All of the things grown here since the blinding light.

[A]

People. People called it. Well, I haven't seen another person. We call it the bl. We also call poops bms bell movements.

[B]

And that can get confusing.

[A]

And we do can them just like the peaches. Just in case.

[B]

Okay. This is so weird. There's no. There's no way you and I would ever be the only ones that survived an apocalyptic situation. Because we're soft. We couldn't. Whatever killed everybody else most certainly killed us.

[A]

Yeah, but what if we were like in the. In Carlsbad Caverns or something? Who's laughing now? Stalactites are stupid people.

[B]

All of those galactites are.

[A]

And anything but stupid stalagmite. I think there's like a. There's a whole category of. I'm going to call him. Dr. Frankenstein's. We've been talking about this. Things that are too obvious. Dr. Frankenstein is one like saying. You mean Dr. Frankenstein's monster.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like Frankenstein. Everyone knows that.

[B]

Yeah. But it's also like. Yes, Okay.

[A]

I was just gonna say stalactite. Stalactite. Stalagmite is what I would call. Okay. You went to high school. Humor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? It's like, that's not. It's not even college.

[B]

Same with mitosis and meiosis.

[A]

I agree. Even though that's something about cells.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't really know that much about this. I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between a stalagmite and a.

[A]

Well, one's from the ground, one's from the ceiling, baby. And I'm pretty sure stalactites are up there.

[B]

I also am.

[A]

I could be wrong. I welcome your feedback.

[B]

I think we've. There's a real good chance we've talked about this on the podcast, too, but one of the things that I don't know that I always pretend that I know is the different cloud names and types.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

And anytime. I don't.

[A]

I don't think you have, because I would have. I mean, I shamed me. I would have gone ahead and shamed you. No, I don't think. It's not that hard.

[B]

And you've also explained it to me before, but I feel like I can't really remember it.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

I've asked for it. You didn't.

[A]

Like, I asked for it. Sir. Sir.

[B]

Sir.

[A]

It's like American. American Beauty. Thank you for helping me learn, sir. Like, that terrible scene. And it makes it worse because he's like, thank you for not giving up on me, sir.

[B]

Oh, my God. That is. That is so brutal.

[A]

I know. But I feel like a lot of us, like, what's going on in that movie is what's happening in a lot of our lives. And there's a reason why that scene. I know. I made fun of it. I always do that. These scenes that are so moving to me, like Dead Poet Society. Oh, Neil.

[B]

Well, that movie, especially.

[A]

But why did I ruin it with bits? I'd still make him cry.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Leave him be.

[B]

That movie. So I don't know about Dead Poet Society. I have a little bit more of a tie to that movie. So it's possible that this is true. Yeah. That this is true. Yeah. Okay. Whatever.

[A]

My God. Riff. Riff. Acknowledged.

[B]

Riff. Acknowledged. No, I. This could be true of Dead Poet Society, too. But American Beauty, if I ever had the pleasure of being on Brett Goldstein's podcast, films to be buried with one of the questions he asks is filled.

[A]

With fury that you want to be on another podcast. I'm just kidding. What if I was? I. What a fun one. Yeah, you would be great on that one.

[B]

Well, I do listen to it right now. I.

[A]

What is a movie that you love that no one else seems to like?

[B]

Hook. Thank you so much for asking, Brett.

[A]

That's the correct answer. Ook, he calls it. He doesn't have that accent. Steven Spielberg's ook. I love ook. Wrong accent, guys. Wrong accent. We've crossed the pond and we took a left. A wrong turn, and we don't know where we are. Oh, that's a good. What is cockney?

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

When you're like a day. Cockney accent, like, what does that mean?

[B]

That is. Well, I don't know that much about it, but I know everything I know about it, I know from My Fair Lady.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is that it was so weird.

[A]

That came up on set yesterday. Really Remember Robin? I don't know if you ever met Robin. She. She used to. I don't know what the term is. I think it's a camera. She's in the camera department, and she would write on the. The Clacker. And yesterday she put. When we were shooting, she put l. And she went, lovely. And she was like, get it? And I was like, novely.

[B]

Oh, so lovely. Sitting up's a blooming lootly still.

[A]

Right. That's probably why I'm thinking cockney.

[B]

Never budge till spring. I'm sorry. We have to just let this go.

[A]

Just let it go through your system.

[B]

Have the windowsill. Someone's Ed rested on my knee Warm and gentle as he could be.

[A]

Is this your Brett impression?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Brett, sing. I won an Emmy, and I'm about.

[B]

To win another one.

[A]

And I'm on deck to win another. Another one.

[B]

Anyway, if I ever did that podcast, my answer for what movie did you used to love? But now, for whatever reason you. It doesn't hold up. And.

[A]

But it is. American media holds up, but it holds up in court.

[B]

Well, that's right. Like. But it's not just the reasons that are obvious. Obviously, Kevin Spacey is a creep. A second. Obviously. That was rape. That was raping a child. Molesting a child.

[A]

Yeah. I can't believe I was jumping to that, but I was just trying to make sure I remember correctly. He doesn't.

[B]

They don't have stuff to Do. But they make out. And he undoes her dress, her shirt. Like.

[A]

Yeah. No, no, no. Again, I'm only trying to remember correctly, but I don't think he did anything. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm only trying to remember. It's not a dream sequence because I know the, like, petals fly.

[B]

There's those two. But no, they really. Yeah. And then she says she's a virgin, and he stops and we're supposed to be like, what a good guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, this went way too far.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. Thirdly.

[A]

It.

[B]

I can. With, like, one ear to the ground. If. When I think about, like, the scenes, like, him watching the paper bag and being like, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

[A]

I remember being so disappointed. I thought it was gonna. When he was like, do you wanna see the most beautiful thing I've ever seen? I'm like, this guy's got a lot of footage and it's gonna be. I remember being a kid being like, here it comes. He was there when a volcano went off. A waterfall or something. Now I get it.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I didn't have any, like. Here, can I sidebar? Are you gonna remember what you're about to say?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Go ahead and say it. Yeah, well, I'll sidebar me.

[B]

It's almost done. Yeah. It's just that there's not enough of it left to leave it and then come back to it. So when I remember seeing that and being like that. That is so deep. Deep. Oh, my God, that's so deep. It is like, ordinary. Life is beautiful. You know, whatever. And now I'm like, that is the most pretentious. But not, like, pretentious with, like, not just. Yeah. Not justified pretension. It's like college student pretentious.

[A]

I'm. Where you just became college student pretentious.

[B]

I don't know. I guess I don't really know what it was like then, but it definitely.

[A]

Okay. Why not just call me the Old Man? Jeff Bridges. I'm just kidding. I just wanted to do my Jeff Bridges impression.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[A]

Go ahead. Okay. Man. He didn't like the old man. It's on who, Man? You know, I'm an older guy now, but I have a sniper rifle and bows in it. And.

[B]

So far you've done impressions.

[A]

Depends on who, man.

[B]

You've done impressions of my two biggest crushes right now.

[A]

Oh, my God. Jeff Bridges. Can. Can. Can get it.

[B]

He can get it.

[A]

I can get it.

[B]

Did you ever see Crazy Heart.

[A]

Yes. I didn't care for that. I thought that was college school pretension. When it's like, I just can't stop drinking margaritas, man. Even though it's my daughter's birthday.

[B]

That's not pretentious.

[A]

My daughter's birthday. I just. Maybe it's a little too close to the bone. Even though I never had an alcoholic rock bottom like that. But when there's plots where it's just like the Wrestler and Crazy Heart, which is my Ray and Walk the Line, like, those movies are the same movie. A lot of people talking about how Ray and Walked the Line is about.

[B]

A wrestler and the other one is about a cowboy.

[A]

Okay, well, change Wrestling Ring for folk music Stage. And it's the same movie.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They're both movies where it's like, oh, yeah, you know, I got an exceptional life, man. I play guitar. Okay, Bo. And. And then I just. You know, my dad was this way too. So it's probably. It's probably an inherited thing where I struggle when the. The thing in the movie is booze. And then they all get a second chance and it's like, just go to your fucking daughter's graduation or her wedding or whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then in both of those movies, it's just sort of like, now I kind of. I think I understand a little bit more that it's never as simple as it seems. But watching it probably not as sophisticatedly as I was supposed to, I was just like. And they still just couldn't not drink one day.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, in both of those movies, he's like, oh, Taco. And the waiter's like, you want a margarita? He's like, well, I wasn't gonna have a margarita, but now I will. And then I'm just like, we saw it coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I. But I'm actually going to disagree with myself that I'm. I think the disease of alcoholism. One of the things that's so annoying about it is that it is so predictable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And boring and disappointing. When I say boring, I don't mean it's not dramatic and angering. I just mean it's like, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that. And we have those moments in real life, like, really? Like, it's my fucking bar mitzvah, dad. And you had to hit. I'm gonna put Manischewitz up there on our list.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Of Dr. Frankenstein, of Scholacton's Galactic.

[B]

It's technically Manischewitz. You mean that?

[A]

I just think saying Manischewitz is just sort of like, again, you went to high school. Yeah, it's just high school.

[B]

Good.

[A]

It's not even good meaning. Like, it's something you say to sound cultural. Like, there's a lot of wines are that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cabernet. But who's talking about Shiraz?

[B]

I think the. Like, it's more pretentious. Pretend to say shiraz or.

[A]

I worked with a comedian. Shiraz, Small Sherrod.

[B]

Okay, so, yeah. So American beauty is. But I. What I will say that I still love about that scene, about that movie is his.

[A]

You like that scene?

[B]

Is his death scene?

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. When he's smiling in the pool of blood.

[B]

That's honestly, like, if I had, again, a question I would get if I were ever invited to Brett's podcast is, how did you die?

[A]

I'm inviting you right now into my silky bed. Oops. Are these pubes or are they chest hairs?

[B]

Okay, now, why'd you ruin it?

[A]

No, that's part of the fun is I'm so manly. They just. They kind of come off, but I don't know where they came from. Ms. Groat or me. Choke.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

You call your chest your choat. I hope he said. All right, all right. I mean, you know, I'm.

[B]

I'm still into it. You didn't ruin it for me. You might have ruined it for some people, but.

[A]

Yeah. Have we talked about. I. It's unfair that it's called the Devil's Three way when it.

[B]

When it's so heavenly.

[A]

Oh, yeah, There you go. I do think there's some homophobia in calling it the Devil's three way for sure.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But two. Two dudes, two dudes, one cup. I call ladies cups. Can I say what I was gonna say?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We could talk about devils.

[B]

No, we can't.

[A]

It's very funny. Can we also just agree all three ways are the devils? The devil is like, yay. Like Vegas devil, not evil devil. The devil that's like Looney Tunes. It's like, you should have more drinks.

[B]

The devil that you know. Isn't that a saying?

[A]

Yes, it is. And I loved it. The devil you know, not the devil you don't know is like evil devil. Like, real.

[B]

Yeah. Like actual darkness, war, crime devil.

[A]

But the. The devil's the devil that is behind all three ways is just the one. He's in a white tuxedo. Looks great against the red skin. Goatee nicely. Freshly trimmed. Yellow eyes, but like. But big, not scary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See? Yellow human eyes, scary. Big yellow eyes, not so scary. But if my eyes are just Scary. It's like, all right, Marilyn Manson. Was that voice okay?

[B]

Was it okay?

[A]

I was going to say that. The bag thing. And I was just thinking about this today with Lila's toy. Forgive me. We're trying to conceive, and we're trying to conceive. And as such, I haven't cold plunged or hot or hot tub or hot plunged. But today we could talk about this, too. It's so funny how you can just go from pleasant afternoon and you're really one email away sometimes from just being like, I can't. And that's what happened to me. Which was very fine. But I was trying to reset my day. And even though extreme cold and hot, you know, the jury's out on whether that's good while you're trying to conceive. And so I've been taking it easy on that stuff, but today I did it. And when I was in the hot tub, I saw Leela's toy ghost spider from Spidey and His Amazing Friends. I was thinking, there's a day soon coming that Leela will look at that toy and be like, I don't know not only why that ever meant anything to me, but how it ever meant anything to me. Like, you'll see it as what it is. The piece of plastic. It's sort of sun faded, and there's not a lot of play action. It's a pretty boring toy. Yeah, but she loves it. Yeah, but. And that ties into the bag in American Beauty. And this is my point. The footage is boring that he shoots at the bag. It's like, it's decidedly boring.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

It's not supposed to not be boring. It's supposed to be very basic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in the same way that Leila's toy is sort of boring and basic, but. And we talk about this on the pod all the time. There's a way that an artist sees and all of us do this, even whether or not we're creating physical art or not. But when you're in the moment and you're having, like, a transcendent experience, and what are you transcending? You're transcending your judgmental mind. Is this bag beautiful or isn't it? Is it not? So when he's crying and watching that footage now, I buy it. When I was a kid and I saw that movie, I was like, what did I say? I thought it was going to be fireworks or, like, I don't know, boobies or something. You want to see the most amazing thing I've ever seen? Just boobs. Look at him jiggling.

[B]

And you do see.

[A]

Still wins an award.

[B]

You do see.

[A]

You see a lot of boobs in that movie.

[B]

Yeah. And you're like. And you're over here looking up plastic bags.

[A]

That would be so funny if. When she does disrobe for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's filming. If he just turns and looks at a bag and then back at her and then back at the bag and then chooses the bag. And then let's take the riff all. It's all the way. It just hard cut to him having sex with the bag. What I'm saying is, and this is one of the greatest interests of my life, is how to stay in a heart open. You could say. You could also just say pupils open. Like when your pupils are dilating and you're letting in more light and more information and slowing down. That's one of the things that I find so troubling about iPads and whatnot. Because Leila is already learning. I'm watching her learn to, like, browse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, she'll. We try. You know, there's movies and TV shows happening, and I. The one thing I try and often fail is just to get her to decide what she wants to watch before she turns on the device and then commit to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why? The reason is because, like, that's a good life. Like, if you could just surrender into the line and I've done this, waiting in line for something and just dropped anchor and experienced it fully, you would have a plastic bag experience. Meaning. What I think is beautiful about that movie is it was for the first time and I didn't get it, and it was demonstrating that there's a way to see everything.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if you see everything that way, then everything is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the most dangerous thing, the biggest enemy to our wonder and to honestly our happiness is the foregone conclusion of reality.

[B]

Right. And the like stories that we're putting on things. So, like, in that example is, you know, like, most people would just see this bag and think it was trash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I see it all as, you know.

[A]

Well, that's. That's why it's good that it's trash.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there is a way to look at trash and be like. Or a dead pigeon or something and just be like, this is the whole thing. And that's holy seeing. Meaning that that's what holiness is, is like realizing that everything is the whole thing, you know, pinpoint focused in just that thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if I could really. And I'm trying to practice what I preach right now. Practice what I peach.

[B]

Back to the peaches that's in the callback mushroom.

[A]

I was going another direction that it's Princess Peach in the mushroom kingdom. And she's like, look, I need to practice what I peach. Am I right? And it cuts. No one laughs. And it cuts to Mario and he's like. And then Luigi's like, shut up, dude.

[B]

That was a cute little journey you took us on.

[A]

Grazia.

[B]

Well, one thing I was gonna say is I. I mean, I certainly have experienced what you're talking about. I'm sure most of the people who are listening have experienced that, like, heart open presence with whatever it is. Like being with your child or looking at a tree or being in nature where you are just like, everything is magic.

[A]

Yes. And Leila playing with the toy and being like, this is my favorite thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the farthest thing from a piece of plastic.

[B]

Yeah. But I also don't think it is the design of life or nature or human experience to stay there. And I think we. We can cause a lot of disappointment, unneeded disappointment and self judgment if we think, like, the whole point is to stay here.

[A]

You're so good. And. And I've really been trying to remember everything that you've taught me, which is like. And Richard was talking about this. I finally finished letting go, and it was really good.

[B]

But Richard Rohr, for those of you.

[A]

Listening for the first time, but Richard Rohr was talking about, like, love isn't just a good feeling. And also holiness, too, meaning wholeness, meaning oneness, meaning surrender, meaning flow. Like you're in the river and you're flowing with reality. Rupert Spire calls reality like jazz. Like, it's just constantly tumbling forward and improvising with itself and building on what is and making something new. And that's sort of the tidal wave pummeling forward. That is reality. And when you're in that surrender, in that flow, it doesn't necessarily mean you just kind of walk around feeling groovy all the time. And I think that's. That's honestly kind of what I'm waiting for as I'm waiting for the in or undeter. Undisturbable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unperturbable state where you're just like, unpenetrable. Everything is totally fine.

[B]

Dude. Yeah.

[A]

My brother. But I don't know if that's. That might be a state that's achievable. It seems like it is. I don't know if Eckhart Tolle is sending back soup in a diner right now. Just like I asked for the Alphabet soup.

[B]

You wanted the Alphabet soup.

[A]

And this is tomato bisque. So please bring this back, or I will drop the power of Ow on you. God, we didn't. We didn't know if I could bring it, at least to something that kind of sounds like a joke. And I did it.

[B]

I liked it a lot.

[A]

Oh, good. I'm gonna show you the power of ow. I mean, it's not bad.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

It's only for 3% of the population of Arizona, but. What was I saying? It doesn't matter.

[B]

Oh, that. If that's a state that can be achieved.

[A]

Oh. Anyway, what I'm trying to get at, which is brings us to our thing today. So Valerie and I, for reasons that aren't interesting, a lot of things got canceled today. So we decided to just get breakfast. And we got breakfast. And while we were having breakfast, I got an email. And the email was for those that listened to this podcast before, it was an ad thing. It was like a. A business email being like, hey, you read the wrong copy. And if anyone who listens to the show enough knows that that's, like, one. For some reason, one of my triggers, you asked me to close my eyes and really look at it. And it's really. My core negative belief is that I'm an idiot, and everyone will figure out that it's an act, that I'm just pretending to be confident, which, by the way, I'll concede is true. I'm not always feeling powerful. And even when I'm feeling powerful, we've told stories like this on the podcast. You're always kind of like one or two things away from being shattered. It's just like. That's why I think it's so funny. I actually just drove by somebody, like, in, like, his best suit and slick hair and, like, fancy sunglasses, and I just went, hey, Bobby Barbarino.

[B]

Wait, he didn't hear you right?

[A]

Oh, no. But he just looked like a Bobby Barbarino. And I find Bobby Barbarino so funny. Not just. Not just people wearing fancy suits with slick hair and sunglasses, but he also looked like he was just out to conquer the day. Like, he was sort of lurched forward. He couldn't wait to get to his afternoon. Bobby Barbarino. And what I find so funny about Bobby Barbarino and what I can relate to that is that Bobby Bobberino is, like, three things away from just being, like, going home, putting on sweatpants and eating ice cream like we all and just being sick. Sad old Robert. Do you know what I mean by that?

[B]

Kinda.

[A]

What do you mean kinda? Like I. I laugh when I see someone dressed to the nines, looking perfect, looking great and just charging out their front door to kill it. Because I'm like, I'm aware as a confident reading person just how secretly fragile you are.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And that doesn't make me happy. I'm just always reminded like human beings are flowers. We're beautiful, but you can crush us really easily.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's something funny about a flower in a tuxedo that's just like nobody knows I'm a tulip. Today I'm Bobby Barbarino. And somebody's just like, hey Bobby, remember when you shit your pants on the school bus? And he's like, oh man, I was on my way to my date with my lovey lovey lady and then he loses it. This is, this goes to everything. This is why I'm interested. I'm fascinated with losing boners. I think that's one of the funniest things in the world. Like I like those that, that flip from like I'm the man to I am not the man. I also like the flip to I'm not the man to I'm the man, which is Breaking Bad. And then he's not the man again.

[B]

Yeah, I think this. I. I totally hear you. And I. I see the amusement about it too, Bobby Barbarito. And I think it is like your, like maybe this is an enneagram 3achiever thing where they're gonna find.

[A]

Well, that goes back to the ad thing. They. They figured it out. I don't know what I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah. It's like these. The achiever wants to like or really lives in this dichotomy of like. Well, I'm either.

[A]

Either I'm either in or I'm out.

[B]

Or I'm nothing at all.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

There's no wiggle room.

[A]

The Sinatra. All or nothing at all. It's such an achiever mantra. It's like if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it all the way. So the reason I find Bobby Bob so funny is because I secretly want to be Bobby Barbarino.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we were just talking today about Darwin. His name is Darwin. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Darwin. I was very jealous of those kids that like seemed together and cute and he was little, which I think was so funny. There was a time in junior High and high school, where being, like, a little guy was, like, precious. Like, it had its own. It cornered a certain market. I don't know what market it was, but, like, later guys tended to want to be tall or broad or whatever it was. But there was a time in eighth grade and in high school, it was like, oh, my God, Darwin. And he was, like, this tiny. He was like a pawn. He was a little pawn on the chessboard.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe because we all felt awkward in our growing bodies, and he was just.

[A]

Holding onto his young body and was like, this guy's driving the classic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're all, like, in the awkward years.

[B]

Like, you're all driving cubes.

[A]

Yes. And he's in a classic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We don't have to talk about that. But the reason I often will tease Bobby Barbarino's and even Darwin's is because I secretly want to. Want to be them, and I don't. We've covered this many times. It's like, I can't handle. There's a part of me that can't handle other people getting the attention. And I feel like. I think I'm somewhat past this, but that's been a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where were we?

[B]

Gosh. There was something I was gonna say before you went on the email. What were we talking about right before that?

[A]

Holiness is. Is not just a good feeling. And that. And that goes to the email, which is. I had the. I got the email, and I instantly went from the world is my friend to, like, everybody. Like, every billboard I saw. Any. Like, whatever I saw, I just instantly hated it. And it was just because one email made me think I was an idiot. But you're helping me realize that, like, holiness isn't just a good feeling or happiness isn't just a good feeling, but, like, true peace and true contentment is sitting with your discomfort, allowing it. And when I got out of the cold plunge, I said yes to everything. Yes, thank you to everything. Because I was still sort of feeling it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It really helped. Yeah.

[B]

I. I think there is. Well, what. What actually just came up for me was I feel like you and I. Because I want to do this, and I think you would really benefit from this, too. We should, like, maybe for 30 days or something, practice loving kindness. Meta practice, which, for those of you don't know, you. You kind of meditate on certain phrases that are some version of, may I be happy, may I be healthy, may I be safe, may I be free. And then you do it to somebody for somebody that you love. You think of them, and you wish the same things. Then you do, you know, a neutral person, like somebody you just see at your coffee shop or something, and then you do a difficult person, and then you do all beings. But what made me think of that is the kind of going back to the. Like, wanting to always live in that connected heart space. Oh, and that's what I was going to say is when you're like, I don't know if that state is achievable. Like, if Eckhart Tolle is sending back for Alphabet soup, I would say even. Even if it is, those people who have achieved it would tell you that the way to achieve it is to make peace with the fact that it isn't achievable. You know, it's like only once you fully accept the natural ebb and flow of, sometimes I'm very connected. Sometimes I'm really lost in a story. Sometimes I can remember and identify with my awareness, and sometimes I am totally caught up in my anxiety or whatever it is. And so loving kindness, naturally, when you practice that, there's all these things that come up, and one of them is that it sometimes cultivates the opposite. Like, you're wishing for your mom to be happy and healthy and safe and free, but your heart feels, like, really closed to it or really hard. And whenever Jack Kornfield teaches Metta or loving kindness, he always says, just like the lungs breathe in and out, the heart opens and closes, and it has seasons of closing, and it closes sometimes out of wisdom to protect us. And then it has seasons of being open and moments of being open. And so just like, allowing that and extending the loving kindness to yourself to be like, whatever it is right now is totally fine. And. And there's no, like, it's so problem here.

[A]

It's like moving away from feeling good all the time actually brings you to that feeling good all the time. But it's always counterintuitive.

[B]

Well, there's a Carl Rogers quote that's like, the paradox is the moment that I truly accept myself as I am, I can begin to change.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

Isn't that incredible?

[A]

That's fucking great. Yeah, I. Wow.

[B]

It's a really good one. So the first step is, like, we do actually have to completely surrender. And I feel like that's part of. I don't know if it's part of the hero's journey, but that certainly is an archetype that happens in story that we love, where it's like, the person is finally so beaten down that they have no choice but to surrender and then they get the final push to like, conquer.

[A]

God, Valerie, I really want that. I got to put that on a. On a post it. I know that sounds silly, but when I put quotes on post its. That's when they tend to really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sink in.

[B]

I know. It doesn't sound silly at all.

[A]

That's wonderful.

[B]

It's interesting because the perfection. I was thinking about the perfectionism thing yesterday because I was having coffee with my dear friend who is a new mom, and we were just talking about how what, like, what a mind fuck it is when you become a new mom because the stakes have never been higher and all. It feels unacceptable to be anything but perfect. Like, truly feels unacceptable. And yet you can't do it. There's no way you can do it. And you really realize that you have such little control over anything.

[A]

This is the world, by the way. This is what Richard says in the last talk on Letting go is he's like, the truly wise seem to know that it's these micro achievements. It's these small achievements amidst chaos or darkness. But like, you keep. And you. This is. I thought this was very interesting. You don't do the right thing to get a result. Like, we have this, like, Western thing. It's like, why would you protest? Do you really think protesting. Like, we just did a. We were in a march. Do you really think that helps anything or changes any minds? And. And then Richard really, again, for the millionth time, has blown my heart open as he's like, you don't do it because you want to make a change. You do it because you want to be obedient to truth and to like. And we've lost our sense of, like, what obedience is. He was like, we just. It's all. It's a me culture. I know everybody knows that. But he was like, marriage is one of the few places remaining, although that's sort of falling apart. But like, where you're obedient to someone ahead of or at least equal to yourself, your family, obviously, the children and all. But there's lots of things. It can be your friends like, but like making those pledges where you're like, sticking with you isn't even about, like, winning a friend or sticking with them in a marriage isn't just about, like, looking good. It's because you. Here's the example he gives. There's some guy like in the 50s who used to protest before it was a thing like he'd go and stand out with a placard and he's like, what are you doing? You're not going to change them. Let's say they have bad environmental policies. He's like, I may not change them, but I don't want them to change me. Meaning, like he doesn't want to become a person. That's like, I'm okay with the war machine.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's a change. That's a change that, honestly, that's a change I'm guilty of. I sure I exist in a world that participates in a war machine. And I'm not. I'm watching Top Gun Maverick and go, Isn't Boomi Boomy fun? And, and, and what, what effect does that have? What cost does that have? Like, we really, like we always say on this podcast, we're so in the ocean, we don't even know we're swimming in anything. And there's people that do that. I thought that was really, really great.

[B]

Really great.

[A]

Let me. I want to tell this other Jack Kornfield story that Mike Kaplan texted to us and melted my heart and you as well. And how it relates to another bad mood I was in that I actually lost sleep over. Yeah. But just because I want a natural place to do it. It's a two minute break or a one minute break for our mid roll ad. So here they go. And we'll be right back. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. Hey, guys. It's time to bring that summer heat into the bedroom. That's right, this episode. This episode is sponsored by BlueChew. Guys. Confidence can take you far in life. It can also help in the bedroom, especially when it comes time to step up to the plate talking about doing it. And that's where bluechew comes in. Bluechew is a unique online service that delivers the same active ingredients as Viagra and Cialis, but in chewable tablets at a fraction of the cost. You can take them anytime, day or night. So you can plan ahead or be ready whenever the opportunity arises. The process is simple. Sign [e-mail], consult with their online medical licensed medical providers, and once you're approved, you'll receive your prescription within days. The best part? It's all done online. That means no visits to the doctor's office, no awkward conversations, and no waiting in line at the pharmacy. Bluetooth tablets are made in the USA and prepared and shipped directly to your door in a discreet package with bluechew men everywhere excited to see the postman. Because when your package has arrived. God, your package has arrived. Do you get it? Your package. Come on, everybody. They always say the first Impression is important, but what about lasting impressions? It's time to get off the couch and get back to work. If your tool needs an upgrade, head to to bluechew.com Women say there's nothing sexier than confidence. And Bluechew can help you give you confidence where it counts. So if you could benefit from the extra confidence, when it's time to perform, bluechew can help. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Try BlueChew free. When you use promo code WEIRD at checkout, just pay $5 shipping. That's BlueChew.com promo code WEIRD. To receive your first month free, visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank you, bluechew, for sponsoring this podcast. Enjoy the rest of the show. Boom. Okay, we're back. This is the story. Well, first. First I'm going to tell what happened, and then I'll. And then I'll tell the story that Mike Kaplan had texted me that you quoted to me at the right time. I think that's the right way to do it, not as it happened. But this is how. Just tell the story that is important. I'm leaving out the story because I want you to hear the story after you hear it happen. So Mike Birbiglia, who I love, but he. Sometimes he. There's no but. He likes to sort of tease me. Sometimes he'll. He'll make fun of business decisions or whatever. And there's an ad, a social ad that we did for our friends at Apollo, the Apollo Neuro. So Val and I filmed this video. And, like, admittedly, I didn't know it was going to be as huge of a campaign as it was. We negotiated a fee. It was totally fair. I was happy to do it. But then Mikey sent me, like, some text that just planted in my brain. He was sort of like, wow, that ad is everywhere. Like, I really hope you got a lot of money for that. And it just. And this was not Mikey's intent, but it just planted this seed that maybe I didn't get it. And by the way, I do not feel this way. Thank you, Apollo, for the opportunity. It was great, but it just planted this seed. Like, again, we're back to my core negative belief. I'm an idiot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mikey knows I'm an idiot. Other people probably know I'm an idiot. And this is another point Richard Rohr makes on letting go is that the mind is always right. That's what makes it so dangerous, is like, in America especially, we think things are Right. If they make money and things are right. If they work, if they produce, if you can predict the results. And they do it like we think it's right regardless of its relationship to truth. Like, can we turn £3,000 of fish into one pound of plastic? Yes. Okay, it's good. Like, but what about the fish? What about the ecosystem? That's a fake example. Yeah, we don't care. We just want it to be producible and reproducible and profitable and there and then it makes it American. True. You know what I mean? Doesn't mean it like, objectively true. It just means we'll accept it. A certain degree of lies, certain degree of violence and war and all that sort of stuff.

[B]

So it's more like the mind always thinks that it's right or makes itself right.

[A]

Well, thank you for bringing me back to that. I'm a little scattered today. But, like, when it comes to something like this, the brain will build a case where it goes like, well, they're airing the ad so much, they did take me for a ride. It's hard to kind of argue with it.

[B]

God. Yeah. I've been in long term relationships with people who are like that, who are just working from that kind of human brain. Thinking brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, it's so. It's. We've quoted it probably before, but that's why the big Lebowski, when he says. When he's like, am I wrong? Am I wrong? And he goes, you're not wrong, Walter. You're just an asshole.

[A]

That's what we have to say to our brains.

[B]

That's what we have to say to our brains.

[A]

But it takes real spiritual geniuses like Richard Rohr that say, like, the tricky thing, like giving away your money or taking a less profitable job because the more profitable one supports a cause or contributes to something you don't believe in will never make sense. The brain will always win. If you enter into the courtroom of reason, the brain will go, well, with that money, you can do this and this and this, and therefore, it's okay. And someone else is gonna take that job. So you should take that job. Like, it's okay. Other people are working there. Are they bad people? It will always, always win. That's a tricky example. But, like, there are other more clean examples where it's just like. It's like picking up the dying starfish on the beach. You're like, doesn't make sense to the head. The head's like, these starfish are going to die. It's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. But the heart says, save the starfish.

[B]

Right. It will always win because it. If you are trying to reason with it, then it's got you playing its game.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And its game is. Is rigged to only ever win.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And again, I was married to somebody like this, but I can. And it was like, that's what you eventually have to say is like, yes, this makes sense if we're playing your game, but if we're playing the game of the heart or the body, then there are other elements here.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And. And I think that was everything I was going to say about that.

[A]

And that's all I have to say.

[B]

That's all I have to say about that.

[A]

No, it's very interesting. I. Sorry, I just had to write something down. I was thinking about what you just said, which is like, the brain. You're playing chess. And then the brain's like, okay, I see that you'd like to donate half your salary to the needy. Why don't you put on these lacrosse pads and we'll play it out? It's just like a completely different.

[B]

Oh, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah. So that's why always the game is to just not. Not get yourself involved in rationalizing or reasoning with your own brain. And it's just to bring your attention back to your heart or your body again and again and again.

[A]

So which is bringing you back to see when people used to say, like, let me pray on it. That's kind of what. That's what it's supposed to mean. Pray doesn't mean like, dear God, let me get the thing that I want. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a type of prayer. But going into silence, going into your body, going into your intuition, going into presence, going into the moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's wisdom there that transcends the brains. Greater than, less than in, out. Right. Wrong. Sort of black, white. Binary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's where you get a lot of people like Martin Luther King Jr. And Gandhi. These people were like heart thinkers. They were finding ways that maybe didn't make sense and will never make sense to the brain.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the brain, you know, tends to be a little bit more black, white.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But okay, so again, I don't think Mikey intended to get my goat with this, but we went to bed, and as you guys know, we're about to move to Ojai. So money is sort of, like, on our brain more than it. Than it's Been because you're like, kind of making this move. Moving is very expensive, blah, blah, blah. So I think at a vulnerable time, he's like, kind of text me something that's like, help. You're really cleaning up on that. And I'm like, And I couldn't sleep and I just kept thinking, I'm being taken advantage of again. Apollo, my friends. Not how I feel. Yeah, but I was worried about it. I was freaking out about it. And around this time, oh, when do I. Mike had sent me this story. Mike Kaplan. This is the Jack Kornfield story. He goes, there was a golf professional, let's call him Eddie. Eddie the golf professional won a huge tournament and got a really big check. And as he was walking to his car that night with the check, a woman approached him and said, I'm so sorry to bother you, Eddie, but I just had a baby and she's on life support. I don't know how I'm going to pay the bills. I'm just trying to keep my baby alive. I'm sorry for making you uncomfortable, but I don't know what else to do. And Eddie, feeling compassion, signed the check over to her and gave her the entire winnings check. A week later, he's at the club, Eddie is at the club, and one of the owners of the club where he golfs comes up and says, hey, Eddie, I heard you gave your check away. Just so you know, that woman's a scam. Like, she's a. She's a fraud and she doesn't even have a baby. And you got taken for a ride. To which Eddie replied, you mean there's no dying baby? That's the best news I've received all week and isn't. I mean, we could take a 45 minute break just to cry at how beautiful that story is, but here's that story in action. I tell you what I'm feeling and you say, oh, you mean? I'm like, what if I didn't get enough money for the spot? Such a stupid concern. And you go, so what? Then lots of people hear about this thing that's made your life better. Oh, that's the best news I've heard all week. Like, I was like, val, they're really running the hell out of this ad. Should I have asked for more money? And you're like, you mean that thing.

[B]

You love that we both love, that I'm wearing right now that I wish.

[A]

I was wearing mine? This is actually the first time. So anyway, we love the Apollo. It's a mental Health.

[B]

It's helped so many.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

People that we know.

[A]

And. But you brought it. I was thinking with my mind, and my mind was going, I've been ripped off. I was listening to the club owner, and I want to be more like Eddie. That goes, like, so what?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We filmed an Instagram like. Like, back the truck Up. And I'm not even talking about, like, for fancy lives. Like, Like a show business boy who does a social ad. There's lots of times when the mind wants to make a mountain out of a molehill. You and I sat on the couch and shot a video in one take and sent it to our friends to help get the word out about their product. Then Mikey, in his mind, gets me in my mind and goes, could you have made more money? Surely everyone thinks you're a fool. You know, it is true. I get a lot of texts from people being like, you were in my feed. You were in my feed. Yeah, who cares?

[B]

Yeah, who cares?

[A]

Who cares?

[B]

I hope they buy this thing. That will help calm them down.

[A]

Exactly. And you know what? I should put mine on because I'm having a bit of a freak out. That's. I just thought that was really beautiful. And you said it to me. And it started because Mike Kaplan, who's just a beautiful man, just texted me that story for no reason. Then I had that small issue. But, I mean, I say small issue that sent me into a spiral that lasted a large portion of the night, where I went from, like, sometimes I just can't see my life. This is why I have to write it down. I have to write everything down. Like, what are you working on? What's possibly coming down the pipeline? What are your movie ideas? What are your TV show ideas? Who are the people, you know, what are the alliances you have, the people that like to help you and that you like to help. I need a list of. Of that. And the reason I did that is because of nights like these, I literally can't remember anything good in my life. All I'm thinking is, I got ripped off and I'm gonna be broke. And we. Val and I talked a lot about the Ohio house being like, can we say yes to this much beauty? It's just so beautiful. Can you accept it? I really think there's a huge part of our brain that goes, no. I'm a dirty boy.

[B]

Yeah, I'm a dirty boy.

[A]

I just totally love Black Sponge.

[B]

This has to be hard for you to earn it or deserve it. Absolutely, yeah. Oh, shoot, I'm losing it. Oh. So in Buddhism, the. There's an idea that I'm going to oversimplify, but it's basically like your thoughts. I mean, the Buddha said something basically like whatever you think about most often is how you see the world. And so from that, the. The Buddhist concept is basically that you. You have a series of thoughts, and then whatever you're thinking at the time colors your consciousness so that you really only see things that confirm what you, in that moment, are believing.

[A]

I'm dead.

[B]

Isn't that just so. Right. Like, you just are like, oh, that's right. So when I'm in. When I'm feeling really anxious, I see every single person on the. You know, on my walk to get coffee as a threat.

[A]

Valerie, today, when I felt stupid. Oh, my God. Whoa. Everyone I saw was stupid, right? And I kept going like, I had a zoom with friends. And I was like, dummies want to do a zoom? What do we need a zoom? They should know better or whatever. I'm like, you're just. You just put the dummy slide in the projector.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's all you're seeing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Everywhere I look, that stupid show. Because we live in la, all the billboards are for shows like that stupid show, that stupid car, that stupid street, the stupid city, everything.

[B]

Right? And when you were worried you were gonna be taken advantage of, you were building the story of, like, and then we're not gonna be able to afford to live in our dream house. And then we're not gonna. You know, like. It was just. It was. It was playing out that scary movie.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And it really is one of something that's really powerful that my therapist will say to me that then I say to myself is. And there's a loving way to say this, because there is a not loving way to say it too. But I'll. If I can think to, I'll catch myself and go, oh, yeah, that's a scary story you're telling yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or I. A friend shared something like a negative belief that she has. And I'm like, yeah, that's a really sad story that you're telling yourself. It doesn't mean that it's true.

[A]

Well, what I found interesting about Mikey and I are similarly driven people. Mike Birbiglia and I love him dearly, but I recognized in that moment, as Eckhart Tolle would say, there's. There's unconscious pain, body stuff going on, meaning one of the things we like to do to each other is provoke. Or you could say, feed each other's Pain bodies.

[B]

Yeah. And that's, by the way, which is.

[A]

Which sounds evil. I think it's very normal.

[B]

I was gonna say even. That's almost. That's probably true for almost any close friendship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not the only thing. There are some friendships, I think, where that's the only thing that happens, but I think I've had some like that. Yes. But I think even really great friendships, it's almost like when you get intimacy that kind of comes into it, this pain body triggering.

[A]

Because you start to see the layout, and he knows that. I mean, what I broke it down as, and I would. I would say this, assuming Mikey is going to hear it, it's not a big deal, is that Mike doesn't do things like that. So the subtext, like, he doesn't do Instagram ads. So the subtext of it is, like, you're doing that thing that is, like, sort of selling out. I hope you're at least getting paid a lot. I don't even know if he meant that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm assuming he didn't. Because we love each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's in there. And sometimes I say to him, like, oh, yeah, Ira Glass, NPR is producing your. You know, your new special is airing on PBS or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is what we do to one another.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, why. And I think even roasts, it's like, why do we love to just shovel tons of food to Pain Bodies? Because we like it on some level.

[B]

And I think there's a thing with friends where, you know, you and him are more similar than you are different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's usually the case with friends. And we get so much security from being like, hey, we're both kind of like this, and this is really nice. So then whenever there are ways that you're different, it can sometimes come out as, like, a competition in a way where you're like, I need to really feel sure that the way that I'm doing it is right. And the other person needs to feel really sure that they're doing it right.

[A]

It's like he's saying, it's the Ramnas thing. It's like, I'll make believe you are who you think you are if you make believe I am who I think I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if we're reminding each other of who the games we're playing and the roles we're playing, we'll take anything, including, like, hey, remember how you're an ambitious achiever? Like, I hope you're not getting ripped off. And it's like. It's like in that moment, one of the pains I wasn't experiencing was the who. Like, who am I?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was in full Pete Holmesiness. And I. I mean, the achiever Pete. There's lots of different Pete's. But like, I was really you. I wasn't going really asserting nothingness. I'm. I'm just as. I'm as important but also as meaningless as anything in this universe. I wasn't. I was really. And trip is the right word. It's a trip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like you go on a little journey and the whole time you're on. It actually works. When you're traveling, you tend to not wonder who you are. You're like, I'm an American in Europe. Like, you get the ego trip on your trip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, your identity.

[B]

Double trip.

[A]

Double trip. And then if you trip on acid while you're on your trip, on your trip, triple trip.

[B]

There's a great thing that I got from Amy Poehler's book. Yes, please edit that out. That I.

[A]

Just kidding.

[B]

That I have not really been able to actually do in practice, but I have. It is certainly a goal to be able to practice this more. Where she just talks about the concept of being, like, great for them, not for me. Like, just to be able to be like, I'm so happy. Like, Mikey, I'm so happy that you get a lot of meaning from your values. Being that you will never sell out in any way. That. That sounds really important to you and I'm so glad you're living that life. That's not for me. We're not, not even saying that we are selling out, but we're. We're a little bit more willing to like.

[A]

Well, Mikey would star in a CBS sitcom. Even though Mikey really liked how we roll, which meant a lot to me.

[B]

And see, that's, that's the beautiful thing with friendships and that's what we can do more often than not in good friendships is when he was like, hey, I'm really glad you did that show. It meant even more.

[A]

Yeah, no, Mike is. I mean, the list of friends is very short, but they're really precious.

[B]

He's a good friend and there's an intimacy there. And that's why there are these little moments. And that's why also what he says to you carries so much more weight than anybody else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he's. He's a trusted confidant. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

His opinion really carries a lot of weight. So it's almost like there's a. There's like a loveliness to it being like, you can get to me because we're so close. There's like a pointing back to the like, because I really care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's a good thing.

[A]

That's right. Well, we only have an hour here. But there was one other thing I wanted to share from Letting Go, which I thought was really great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And one of the things he's encouraging us to let go of, Richard, is the self centeredness, which I think is just really great. So, like the obedience to something bigger than you, the obedience to relationships, friendships, being a parent, whatever it might be. But he said, I just thought this was funny. As a church person, somebody who grew up in the church. He. He's like, so many people go to church to get. Nobody goes to give. He's like, you could do the Kennedy thing. Ask not what your church can do for you, ask what you can do for your church. Because the church is supposed to be a place where you're all kind of gathering under the same umbrella of like, we, we. We all believe in something bigger than ourselves and we believe in service and all that stuff. So let's mobilize, let's get this going. Let's. Let's get goodness flowing or whatever. But so many people, and I relate to this so hard. When I went to church, I was like, make me feel better, make me feel included, make me feel like. And Richard makes this point. I found it very challenging. He's like, some people, it doesn't matter how many times you bless them or tell them that God loves them, next time you jerk off to pornography or whatever, you just. You're back out again and you need to be reminded again. But it's. It's a bottomless pit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, oh, that, that definitely sounds familiar. I'm trying to get more self. Generational. But he makes this. Tell me if this doesn't make you think of church people. He's like, so many people go to church and they'll leave and they'll never go back. And they'll be like, well, no one said hello to me.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And Richard goes, well, did you say hello to anyone? And I was like, hey, like, I didn't know. I really feel like every church should find that part of letting go and just be like, stop going and expecting other people to do what you're incapable of doing. Like, or. Or to assume that they feel like they're in and you're out, and they're. Therefore, it's like, what my My mom often does. It's like I texted them, they didn't text back. And that means they're jealous or. Or they're mad at me. Me. And I do this too. I went and nobody said hello to me. And that's because they're in and I'm out. And they weren't. Maybe it was their first week. Like, what are we doing? And this is the David Foster Wallace thing that I always quote. But it's like an SUV cuts you off and you're like, you fucking gas guzzling suv. That's like, maybe they were in a car accident and the only car they feel safe in is an suv, right? And everyone makes a mistake on the road every once in a while. Why? We're back to the filter that you see all of reality through. It's like if you just take a beat to consider. Like, when have I been a jerk? Like, sometimes cars speed by me. And I'm like, Because I've been driving to Warner Brothers this past week. And I'm like, we used to shoot the Pete Holmes show on the Warner Brothers lot, which means I would do that commute every day. I guarantee I've gone 90 on that road. And if somebody goes 90 by me, I'm just like, you fucking asshole. It's you, dipshit. It's all you. And the only difference between recognizing that or just being isolated, separated and miserable and afraid is taking a pause and going, like, have I ever been that way? And that's why, honestly, the mistakes and the ugliness and the. And overly proud, overly loud, all these things that I've done in my life, going to that baby and calling the. Going to the party and calling the baby fat, all of that stuff is fucking treasure. Because it actually can increase compassion. Whereas if I was just walking around and my feet aren't touching the ground, anytime somebody chews their gum too loud in an Uber, I'm like, this fucking dipshit. I have no point of reference, but if I chew my gum too loudly in a writer's room, which I have, and someone's like, for the love of God, can you chew a little? I'm like, right. It's a gift.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These mistakes. It's like, that's the blessed are the poor in spirit. That's the blessed. The last she'll be first. It's like all of that humbling stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he talks about humility, comes from the word for the soil. It's like humus or something. Hummus. But like, getting back, getting low to the ground and just shut the fuck up.

[B]

Well, also, that's the Tibetan prayer I think I shared in the last session. That's like, please give me just enough. I don't know if it's just. I would change it to just. But it could just be, please give me enough suffering to ignite compassion or to cultivate compassion.

[A]

That's the week I've been having.

[B]

And that is the. The thing. Like, it's. Sometimes I really fall into the, you know, the trap of being like, I wish I had the whimsy that I had when I was 23, you know, and, like, I'm plenty whimsical still. But 10 years ago, it was like a butterfly person who just wanted to hang out with her friends and smoke weed and just laugh and. And I trusted, yes, everything. And it's like, yeah, but was I. Was I really compassionate in, like, a real way that wasn't codependent?

[A]

Well, that Valerie was of use to people at that time, but this Valerie. And, like, when you have issues with friends and codependents or whatever it might be, or you and I were talking, we were laughing about how despite all of this work, you could call it. Or spiritual research. I don't know. Sometimes the only thing that makes us feel better is the resolution of an issue. Like, you just need it. You need that text.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You need that call.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I thought maybe I had offended somebody. And then they do reply to my email, and I'm like. And you're like. You almost feel bad. You're like, I wish I got this much joy from just.

[B]

I wish I had resolved this myself before the external conflict got resolved.

[A]

That's right. But sometimes. And this is the voice of Valerie, I'm over here going, like, it's all just awareness. And you're over there going, like, can't it be everything? It's not a mistake. It's not a mistake. It's not a mistake that we were having lunch and I got an email and I absolutely, like, literally, night and day, went from carefree to stressed out over something that. All I had to reply was, oh, you're right. I'm so sorry. I'll make that up. Big deal. Yeah, big deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, there's something in us that wants the drama, wants the chip or something.

[B]

Well, and I think it is. Yeah. I think it's igniting old beliefs or wounds or childhood stuff or it's challenging patterns that we have. I mean, it's. There's. There's a reason for it. It's Just it. There's a reason for it. And it's also not personal. Like, it's. That kind of is a conflicting idea because it is like this external circumstances running through your person and it's triggering all of your alarms. And also it's not personal. It's just that that's the reaction that came out of you. And that doesn't mean that we can not have accountability for what. How we react, but it does mean that our feelings aren't problems that need to be fixed. And this is the last thing I really wanted to share in case it helps.

[A]

I love that our feelings aren't problems.

[B]

We need to fix, which is, again, I know this is so challenging to you and I, how both of us parent. But that is the lesson that I feel like we are inadvertently teaching Leela when she's upset and we're like, did you want a snack? Did you want a tv? Did you want to. Whatever. You know, it's like, this is a problem and we'll help you fix it. As opposed to just being like, yeah, be sad as long as you're sad, buddy.

[A]

And even that is Western commerce style. It's like if you're crying or feeling low, you can't do your work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why we're all going around and drinking coffee and just getting high and drinking.

[B]

It's like, just feel good all the time so you can produce.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And eating sugar all the time so.

[B]

You'Ll produce and consume.

[A]

And then like, you get your. You get a couple hours of TV at the end of the day. It's interesting. Or you could. I don't know. I don't know where we went wrong, but there should be more time for feeling feelings. I can hear Bill Burr being like, now they shouldn't shut up. Keep going.

[B]

Talk about somebody who's identified with the thinking brain.

[A]

We love Bill.

[B]

We love Bill. Yes. I don't really know him.

[A]

I would say his brain is on display is what I think you're absolutely picking up on for sure.

[B]

But. So the last thing I wanted to share was that I got to. As part of the mindfulness teacher training program that I do with Jack Kornfield and Tara Brock, there was a session on. It's called Vipassana Out Loud. And it basically is kind of one on one guiding people through inquiry, which all sounds like big, serious words, but what's so lovely about it is that it's actually very simple where. And so Tara did it with her husband Jonathan, who is also a mindfulness teacher. And it was so simple, and it was so beautiful to watch, where he brought up an issue of, like, I'm gonna be with my parents for a week. And I'm, like, nervous about that.

[A]

Oh, yes, thank you for telling this.

[B]

So then he, you know, she had him kind of slow down. And I, by the way, realized this is exactly what my therapist does with me all the time. And so it's very powerful, and you can do it for yourself. It's the practice of mindfulness, essentially. But it's really lovely to be able to do with a partner. And she just said, so what are you aware of right now? And he kind of was like, there's anxiety, there's clenching. You know, she might have asked at that point, like, where do you feel it in your body? But. And he was like, there's, you know, a clenching in my chest. It's like feels like kind of a burning and a tightness in my chest. And she goes, so clenching, a burning. And can you be with this? And then it's like he reflects on that and is kind of quiet that.

[A]

I noticed that I'm holding. It's not a muscle, but it feels like I was clenching a muscle across the whole span of my chest. Is this podcast good? Is it too hot? Do I need to eat?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do I have to email? And as you said that I feel. Felt that belt. It's like the belt, like a tire had been wrapped around my chest. And he said, can you be with this? I was like, it just, like, completely went away.

[B]

Absolutely. There's a huge softening that happens in my body, too, when I ask that question, because it goes back to that thing about being braced against life.

[A]

We never realized what this thing of Bobby Barbarino.

[B]

Bobby Barbarino.

[A]

Cab goes by and splashes them. When you said a soft softening, I thought about losing boners. And I thought back to Bobby Bobarino and how it is classic comedy that somebody's like, streaks on the china of Splash.

[B]

Yes. That feels like very Simpsons.

[A]

Yeah. Nothing is gonna stop me today.

[B]

And Bobby Barbarino, in the world of.

[A]

My oyster, takes his toupee.

[B]

Yeah, classic. So then it was just that over and over. So it's really just two questions that you can ask your partner if they're distressed or you can ask yourself, but.

[A]

Acknowledgement, too, which is.

[B]

What am I aware of? And then getting really aware of that. And somatically, because your brain will want to be like, well, I'm aware that Becky is a bitch. He's like, no, what's in your body. And can I be with this? And then just noticing. And then what am I aware of now? Okay. And can I be with that?

[A]

But you noted that Tara mirrors. Mirrors it.

[B]

So if you're doing it with a.

[A]

Person, if she's having a panic and she's like, I feel like pins and needles in my neck. Okay, pins and needles in your neck. Can you be with it?

[B]

Yes. The mirroring is really important because there's. Especially if you are like me, where one of your panics is sort of like a I don't know if I exist thing. Something my therapist has had to explicitly say to me is, you are being comprehended right now. I am comprehending what you're saying, which means you have to exist because I. You're saying something, and I completely understand it. You know, so sometimes we just need. And that's what Leela needs when she's freaking out for us to be like, you're sad. I see that you're sad. You're experiencing something that feels bigger than you. But I am also a witness, and I'm labeling it. So that's the. If it's mentionable, it's manageable thing from. From Mr. Rogers. So it's just the most beautiful gift we can give ourselves and each other to ask, what are you aware of? Mirror what they say. And then can you just be with this and to do it with ourselves? So when I notice that I'm, like, really contracted, sometimes I can do it, sometimes I can't. I will, like, I'll put hands on my body, my hand on my heart, and a hand on my belly. And then I try to have an undefended belly. That's key for me. Because usually if somebody says, try to have an undefended belly, I realize that my belly has been, like, tight, constricted. So it's like. And you fart, but it's like this. So I. I try to have an undefended belly. I put hands on my body, and.

[A]

I sing that too. God, I walk around clenching my belly.

[B]

We're all walked around braced against life. So just the softening of your body, and then the rest of you can start to follow suit and you just say, can I just be with whatever is here right now? There's no problem. It's just here for a time, and it'll pass. And even the, like, sometimes I'll open my arms or, like, open my body and try to soften my body. It's like trying to get your physical body to do what you want your inner emotions and your inner body to do. Yeah. Anyway, that's all I have to say about that.

[A]

Well, that's. Valerie, you are delightful. Every time I talk to you, I'm just like, this. This podcast is really just me. I open my. The jar of my. Of my existence. I just try and get more Valerie in there. And then. So we. We come together once a week for me to be like, here's some Pete. And you're like, wouldn't it be softer with little Valerie? I'm like, yeah. And then I'm Jojo the idiot circuit.

[B]

Bar.

[A]

Lighting it on fire. Oh, God, wouldn't it be nice? Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, my New kids in the bathroom.

[A]

JoJo the Idiot Circus boy. God help us. All right, everybody, I. I wish we had more time, but this actually felt perfection.

[B]

Perfecto.

[A]

Okay, go ahead and.

[B]

Keep it crispy. I almost said, get into it. Keep it crispy and then get into it.