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Hi, I'm Sarah and welcome to youo Makesense. I'm a somatic experiencing practitioner, an expert on trauma resolution, attachment parts work, and nervous system regulation. This podcast is a manual to understanding your human experience so that you can navigate the world with freedom, ease, empowerment, and create the life that you desire. Remember, you make sense all parts always. This episode is something that I've been wanting to do for a really long time. We're going to be talking about the interconnectivity of science and spirituality, and it's something that I don't think is talked about enough, you know, here inside you Make Sense. The podcast. And of course, in every program that I offer, we really focus a lot on the science behind trauma and healing as a whole and giving you tangible tools to do that. So we look at research and, and data points on. On practical things that are necessary to facilitate the. The healing we want. And not only that, but to help us step into the life that we desire. But something that I don't talk about a lot is that my spiritual life actually is the center of my life. Truly, it is the center of my life. And I don't name that all the time, but it's really the driving force behind everything that I do. It's the driving force behind why I created this podcast. And I'm really excited to talk about how science and spirituality are not different things. They're really two and the same. In many ways, science is just explaining what spirituality is. And when it comes to our nervous systems, there is such a correlation to the practice of spirituality and being and living a spiritual life. So without further ado, let's get into it right now. The first thing that I just want to talk about is what is spirituality? I think that in many ways, religion has hijacked a lot of the pure nature of what it means to be a spiritual being and what it means to live a spiritual life. I will also say, just a caveat to that, that there are beautiful things about religions. I grew up in actually evangelical Christianity, and there were things about it that today and even then I really disliked and do not orient to or condone in any way. And the connectivity that I got, the community that I got, the singing, all of that was really, really supportive for me and regulating of my nervous, you know, like all things, nothing is fully good or fully bad. Usually it's somewhere in the middle. But I just want to. Want to name that there's a lot of things that religion has done to strip the core of spirituality and to give spirituality A really bad name. But I believe all the great spiritual teachers like Jesus and Buddha and Muhammad and of course, there's been so many others over the course of human existence. The names that I don't even know what they were all trying to teach about was spirituality, which is three real things. So things that I constitute as the pillars of spirituality. One number one connection. So it's connectivity to ourselves, connectivity to our higher self. So you might call that your soul. Connectivity to nature. So the world that we come from, we are made of stardust. And as is everything on this planet. So the interconnectivity of, you know, I. My body will go back to this earth and become, you know, depending on how I'm not going to be embalmed just in case I pass away and I don't have a living will yet. Loved ones don't embalm me. But if my body is put into the earth, I become a tree, right? I go back into the place that I came from. So connectivity to the earth and connectivity to other people. So interconnectivity. I am you and you are me. We are the same, sharing that energy. And then connectivity to the greater thing, this great mystery. It is just a mystery, isn't it? None of us actually know. But if you've ever felt into this thing, beyond what is visible, this thing that is greater than us, if you've ever touched it, it is unnamable. There are no words for it. And there's been, you know, many in my life where I've had profound spiritual experiences and met that moment of what felt like meeting creation. And I cannot put that into words what that is. But it's the highest form of connectivity I've ever felt in my life. So spirituality is about interconnectivity, and that begins with connectivity with ourselves. What else is spirituality about? Presence. Being here in this moment and with every breath, breathing in the next one. Only this one. Just being here. By the way, as I name these things, aren't these things that animals are so good at? So good at, right? Being connected, being deeply present, being here. And then lastly, love. So to be. To know deeply that I am love and you are love, and all things are love. And we are all connected to each other. And when I think of animals, they're so good at all three of those things. I once heard Edgar Tolle say. He said, the reason I think we love dogs so much, but all animals is because you look into the eyes of a dog and you see the whole universe. Because what is my sweet Dog Truman doing. And Jerry, you know, it's really weird. It's not weird at all, actually. And this is appropriate for the spirituality episode. My dog Jerry died a year ago. Had him for 10 years. And my dogs were the center of my healing journey, actually, my first real secure attachments and so important in my healing process. And it still feels funny to just say Truman's name without Jerry. But to me, that's a deep form of interconnectivity. He is still very much alive. We know energy doesn't die, right? So it's very strange to me when we say that person's dead or that being is dead. They might not have that body, but their energy is somewhere. And that's the great mystery of it all. The other thing that I want to name is spirituality as its core. Actually, I didn't even think about this till right now, but I wasn't planning on saying this, but spirituality as its core is a surrender into the truth that we don't know anything. That's really the truth. We know nothing. I feel like the older people get, sometimes the more wise they become. Certainly for myself, I have noticed that as I get older that it feels really good to say, I don't know anything. What do I know? Not much. And to feel safe, to be able to have that as the truth. We can only know that when we're anchored in truth, and we can only surrender when we're anchored in safety inside of ourselves. But those are the real markers of what spirituality is. So interconnectivity to self, others in the world around us, presence, being in this moment, just this moment, feeling love for self, others, and everything around us. And surrender, surrender into life, letting the river of life carry us. And so when I say those things, you know, my friends who are atheists, I love my atheist friends, if I said those things to them, they'd say, like, yeah, I want those things. And also, by the way, a lot of them are just fully living them. So I would say I laugh with them because I'm like, you're spiritual. You are. And they're like, oh, no, I'm not. But anyway, I think that those are the major things of what spirituality is. And aren't those things that we all want. Those are things that I want more than anything else in my life. Those are the things I want. And so I want to talk about why so many of us are disconnected from that or why it feels so challenging. And there can be a lot of spiritual shaming out there. That messaging, like, well, you're anxious right now, or you're disconnected, or you're depressed right now because you're not being faithful enough, you're not praying enough, you're not meditating enough. And that's the problem. Basically, you're the problem. You're not being spiritual enough. That's why you don't feel the connection. And that is completely and wholly untrue. What science actually tells us is the reason why so many of us struggle to access our spirituality, to really feel the things I named is, is because of trauma. So many things comes back to trauma, my friend. So many things. And remember, all of us experience trauma in our lives. None of us go through life unscathed by it. So trauma, remember, is the overwhelm of stimulation in our bodies. So overwhelm of energy as a result of something that happens. And if that experience isn't able to resolve in the. In the aftermath of it occurring. And the reason it doesn't resolve is because you don't have safety. And you don't have something called a mutually empathic witness. So that's a safe other who can hold the container for you. So it can process through. If you don't have those things, it gets stuck and stored and locked in time. And it lives in an internal. It lives in your body, but the information about it lives in this internal database. And so what occurs is your system says, never again am I going to allow myself to be exposed to things like that. And so much of trauma involves connection. Trauma is relational, meaning it happens with others the majority of the time. Even if I'm in a car accident with someone I don't know, it involved them, right? A surgery, it involved a doctor. So most trauma is relational. And remember, what is spirituality? It's relational. It's about connection. So if my nervous system learned connection is not safe, then guess what's going to happen. It's going to keep me from that interconnectivity and connection because it's saying it's not safe. Now, what else happens with trauma? Well, when we experience trauma, our system thinks that the past is happening now or could happen at any given moment. So the result of that is, you know, when or when we're out in the world, we have this beautiful thing called neuroception. It's a threat detector in our brainstem. It's looking out into the world to see if we're safe or not all the time. And it looks to that internal database. We all have to decide. So for many of us, we are triggered. When you're triggered More often than not, you are traveling back to the past, which means you are not in the present if you are dysregulated, but you are safe, meaning you are actually safe in your present life. That is a clue that you are not in this present moment. You are somewhere in the past. Your system thinks the past is still happening, so you are not present or you are in the future trying to prevent against danger. So what is spirituality? It's about presence. What is, what is dysregulation and trauma lacking presence. So we lacked connection, we lack presence, and we most of the time lack self love. What is spirituality about love? And why do we lack self love? Because most of the time we internalize the things that happen to us. So instead of saying that thing is bad, I am bad, I must not be lovable because humans are meaning making creatures. I must have done something wrong. I must be inadequate. I must not belong because I was bullied. I must not be good as I am because I had to be perfect in my house. So disconnects us from that inherent truth that you are deeply, deeply loved. So when we have yet to fully embody our healing work, we're going to struggle to embody our spirituality. And I want to normalize this. And this is why I say that a lot of the times that regulating your nervous system unlocks the life that you are desiring, including your ability to connect deeply in your spiritual practice and make your spiritual practice a personal relationship with the divine, with source, with the mystery. I don't know what you want to call it. With love, with God, with whatever. It's all the same thing to me. It's about a personal relationship. It's not about dogma and rules. I think the reason why so many religions have held onto rules is because it is coming from a place for people of I feel out of control inside. So if I can just control others, it will give me a sense of safety. Because remember, the last part of spirituality is that surrender. I didn't actually get to that. Let's go back to that last part of spirituality is surrender. And so surrender, what does that mean? I am relinquishing control. I am letting myself be carried instead of carrying myself. Now let's think about trauma for a second here. When we experience trauma, it is overwhelm in the face of helplessness. And so to be surrendered was a helpless experience. It was not safe. So what does our system learn to do? It says, never again will I surrender for myself. For so many years, it was impossible to let people help Me, even as a deeply. My spirituality has been the center of my life, my whole life. And as a kid, it was my only friend. I think that perhaps a lot of people with trauma histories like mine may have had that experience, but it really was my only friend. And the beings that I felt like were around me. I don't know what you call them. Maybe you could call them angels or guides or something. Felt like they were helping me through the horrors that truly were hell on earth. I couldn't escape my house, and I. And I knew I could turn to it and it would be there. And I, very early on, started using writing as a way to communicate to it. And what I found was it would often write back to me. This is just the idea of channeling. And I don't want you to think, oh, my God, Sarah's into some weird stuff. If you've ever had something you've ever done. By the way, I'm channeling right now. Anytime I ever speak to you, I'm channeling. We don't do scripts here. I just speak and let things arise through me. If you've ever listened to a musician or an artist creating art, they're a lot of. Not the whole time, but a lot of times channeling, like, letting it come through you, or you give a friend advice, and then they say, hey, what did you just say? And you say, I don't know. I don't know what I said. Channeling. So anyway, I used to channel through writing. I still do very big part of my life and would write to the universe and then. And then have it right back to me. And I found that it did, and it wasn't me writing, and still isn't. And what would often happen in that process was I was trying to be really surrendered to it. Like to surrender to what the universe had for me, which I very much am. But the last bit of this surrender, which was really hard, was what I was doing was I was holding myself while I was letting the universe hold me. I was holding myself while I let others hold me. So I was never actually surrendered. Right. Because when we experience trauma, it's not safe to surrender. And so, again, for all of these reasons, this is why so many of us struggle with our spirituality, struggle to step into it. And what I can tell you is embodying the type of spirituality that's right for you. I don't know what that is for you, but I think that each of us are deeply spiritual creatures and finding an avenue that helps us to experience interconnectivity presence, love and surrender is really important because those are the things that our beingness desires the most. So I want to talk about when we've experienced. We're going to talk in a little bit at the end. So, like, what do I do if I have all this trauma and I want to experience spirituality more? I struggle with trust or surrender or connection or presence or love. We'll talk about that in a minute. But the first thing I just want to talk about around this is the importance of processing anger at the universe. That might seem really taboo and strange, but wow, is it really imperative. Also, I work with a lot of people like myself who grew up in religion whom had to reorient themselves to spirituality. And a lot of times it means going through this divorce process from their religion. And sometimes they end up back at that religion again, but really allowing themselves to have all of their feelings around the things that weren't okay. The shaming that occurred, the messaging that we're a sinner, that we're this bad thing and that we're, you know, lowly and if we can just be perfect, which isn't possible because you're a sinner, then you'll be okay. Or, well, you know, all these messages that are really shaming, shaming of our bodies, our sexuality and so on. But whether you experience religion in the past or not, I think that it is very common to have anger at the universe, anger at the thing that's bigger than us, anger at God, whatever again you call it, is really normal. Why? Well, because this is a relationship, right? Spirituality is meant to be a relationship. And it's really healthy to be angry at your parent. It would be very unhealthy. If someone said to me, I have never been angry at my mother or father. I would say, would you like to work with me for a little while? Because that's suppression. It's not possible. It's healthy, actually. Anger is the same as joy and aliveness and curiosity. There is no good or bad emotion. That would be very strange, wouldn't it, if this great mystery that created existence made bad emotions. That that anger is a really beautiful and healthy one. And so it's really important to let us access that healthy aggression. That's something Peter Levine calls our anger is our life force energy. And it's really an act of self love to access healthy aggression. Healthy aggression is our ability to say that wasn't okay or to defend ourselves or to say, you know what? It was so fucked up that I had to experience that in my Life. I am so pissed off that my mother, who I really love, made me be her mother. Like, it's not fair. I know she did the best that she could. She did the best she could, but it was like she was a child. So I didn't get a mom or it's really not fair that my dad died or my mother died or they left or whatever, or they hurt me. It is so important. That's just not just in our childhood, in our lives, to let ourselves be with that so we can release it. Resentment. Have you ever met somebody who's, you know, I don't know, they're 70 years old and they're still so angry about something that happened when they were 15. It'll kill you, literally. Because internalized anger becomes illness in our bodies. And the reason why that's still occurring is because they haven't accessed the healthy aggression. And when we access healthy aggression, we actually get to release them. So this is an act of self love, and it's a act of love for them as well to be able to come into that. So that's really important, including being angry at the universe. I detest the messaging that this happened for you. Oh, my God. I can't tell you how many people I had say that to me along the way. And they were people who never experienced the things I had. And it made me so angry that somebody could so flippantly say, no, this happened for you to serve your soul as highest good. And I wanted to say. And, you know, excuse me for giving details, I wanted to say, well, if you were trapped and violently sexually abused for a decade, would you say that? Would you say that that happened for you? So again, you don't have to have a history like mine for this to be true. That I do not think it happened for a reason. That someone experienced, you know, a hate crime that didn't happen for you. I don't think it happened for you, that you grew up in, you know, a civil war. I don't think it happened for you that you grew up in poverty. I don't think it happened for you that you got cancer. I don't think it happened for you. You get it? I can go on and on and on and on. So I just want to name that because there's. There's just so much gaslighting and shaming stuff out there. And it's really healthy to say that. And I said this along the way so much. I said I would get angry and tired on the journey, and I would say in my Therapy, Therapy work, but also to the universe, like, in tears. It's not fair. I'm a really good person, and it's not fair that this happened to me. It's not fair. It's not fair that I have to struggle with this or be on the sidelines of life or whatever it is. That is not being a victim. Like, oh, playing a victim. Because, you know, people say that all the time. Like, stop being a victim. If you tried to bypass the truth that you were a victim, you are bypassing a very integral part of the healing process. So we don't want to stay in this place of not having agency. But it is so important to name what's true. Yeah, there are people who've had a much easier life than every single one of you listening right now. And I don't care how great your life was. There's somebody whose life was easier. And yes, there are many people who had a harder life. But being with what was is really important and processing the anger that you might have towards the universe around it. Not being fair is vital. And from what I know, in my own very close relationship to this universe, I've only ever felt it be overjoyed in the expression of that. Because the expression of that leads to greater interconnectivity and connection. And this great mystery wants us to be connected. So the more that we're able to process it, we're more able to surrender. We're more able to be present, we're more able to be connected. We're more able to experience love. So that is absolutely vital. And I just want to name a couple other things that helps us to unlock the connectivity to the universe and our spirituality. And one of them that we must focus on is regulating our nervous system. I am annoying. I know I'm annoying because I talk about the profound nature of nervous system regulation all the time. It. Remember, your nervous system creates your thoughts, feelings, sensations, behaviors. So everything you ever do as a result of it, the perception of yourself, others in the world around you, it creates your whole experience. And it either keeps you locked in a prison or set free. Your nervous system does that. So the more that you focus on regulating your nervous system, actually, I feel like every spiritual, every place of prayer, spiritual practice, you know, like you go into, even it should be in every room you go into to meditate, do a sound bath, yoga, church, temple, whatever it should like. The first thing it should say is, nervous system regulation is our number one value. Because if everybody focused on regulating their nervous system, you would be more Connected. Because the more you regulate your nervous system, the more that your system sees I am safe. So your nervous system no longer stands in front of you. It stands at your side. You are safe to connect with all things to yourself, you to the different parts of you, to other people, to the world around you in the universe. So it checks that box presence. When you are regulated, you are in this moment. Only this moment I'll never forget. And some of the most spiritual moments I have had are in healing containers. Truly, truly. Actually, two of the most spiritual moments I ever had. Two high moments of ventral. I remember them vividly. One was a long time ago. It was my first high moment of ventral. And I had tears rolling down my eyes. I think I might have said this in another episode. I was in, like a 10 ventral, highest level of ventral. And I said, there will never be words for the hell that trauma and dysregulation is. And there will also never be words for how extraordinary the most ordinary moment can be. When you are safe to be here and to be alive. I don't think there's anything more spiritual than that. Second one was I had a moment where I completed an incomplete experience with a mentor of mine. Maybe one of the most skilled somatic clinicians I know. He's been my mentor for a long time. And I completed an experience, one of the most intense ones from my childhood. And there was a peace that happened. This peace, like, actually is in Scripture. Peace that passes all understanding. That's what it was. And I was in this. My eyes were closed and I was in this place that was total darkness. Not just like darkness with my eyes closed. Like this place of total darkness. Full, full, full regulation. And with tears streaming down my face. I can't really describe it in words, but all I kept saying was, I am everything and I am nothing. I am everything and I am nothing. I think I might have said that for 20 minutes straight. Just with tears rolling down my eyes. I can feel it when I bring it back to life and I open them. And he said, I don't know if you need to do psychedelics. It was really funny because that's what I was experiencing. He facilitates some of that. And it was maybe the most spiritual moment I've ever had. Where I feel like I know what's going to happen when I leave this body. So, anyway, my point is, regulation brings us into the things we're wanting. Light, connection, presence. You can only be in presence when you're regulated. So, see, the imperative nature of that, it connects us to love for ourselves, self compassion and love for others. And it is the only way you can surrender. It is not possible to surrender when your system doesn't think you're safe. But when you find safety. This is something I always said, I just would say like I just want to feel like I'm flowing down the river of life. I don't want it to be hard anymore. It was hard because I was gripping life because I didn't feel safe. So when you have safety, you can relinquish the gripping and actually surrender. So that's what regulating our nervous system does. And the second thing is showing our parts that the past is over. So part of, you know, when we experience trauma, we have these parts of ourselves that are stuck in those experiences. They don't know that those things are over. Listen to the episodes I have on parts work because it'll give you helpful tools to do this. But our work is to show those parts that the past is actually over through regulating our nervous systems, through greeting them through something I call internal co regulation and bringing them here in the presence with us. And when we do that, they can have full presence just as we can. And then the last thing that's necessary to really build our spiritual experience is building the relationship with source. You know, it's a relationship. That's what it really is. So I want you to think about this for yourself. How can you begin stepping into connection with you and connection with nature and connection with others and then with source as well. So simple examples, connection with you. Can you just even notice the food you're eating coming into your body? Connect to your body. Put your hand on your chest and feel yourself breathing. Connect to that. Even journaling is a connecting to self. Connecting to what I am feeling inside and letting that be be expressed. Connecting with nature. Can you go into nature and actually connect to a tree like I touched? It's a tree in my front yard. I touch her every day and I talk to her. Not every day. Some days I don't. I'm lying. So we don't talk every day. Tree, if you're listening to this, I know, I just didn't tell the truth. Sorry I hadn't talked to you yesterday. Anyway, trees touch a tree, they're alive. Touch the earth. Connection. Connection with an animal. If you've got a pet, connect deeply with them or watch an animal in nature. Connection to source. What makes you feel connected to it? For me, I channel in writing, pray, meditate, and then practicing presence. We do that through regulating our nervous system. So importance of that. So connecting. Connecting with it deeply. And then what we want to see is can we surrender into it a little bit? So literally, it might be laying on the earth and letting the earth hold you a little bit more. And then if this feels, you know, like something that is resonant for you, just talk to whatever this is. This thing is bigger than you. And if that seems silly and weird, still try it. I invite you to try it out and ask it for help and ask it for support. And you can do that in nature, too. Remember, everything is energy. So the energy that you put out is the energy we get back. And if we put out the energy of needing support, we tend to get that back. And then life becomes. Martha Beck talks about this a lot. It becomes this magical adventure that oftentimes we don't realize how much we are the magician, how much power that we have to create magic in our lives, to draw things in. And it's our spirituality that allows for it. It's the only thing that has allowed me to certainly to step into the life that I am desiring. Along with this healing work, they go hand in hand. I don't think you can have one without the other. And when you have both, life opens up in beautiful, beautiful, beautiful ways. And it guides you, right? When you're connected deeply to yourself, your soul, it guides you in the direction you're meant to go. That's why we created this podcast. Not because I thought it would be a cool thing to do, but because there was this thing inside of me that says, you have to do this. You must do this. And so we become good at listening and surrendering, and then we do the thing which we're doing right now. I don't know how well this is going to do. I don't know. I just know that I'm supposed to do it, so I'm doing it. And then I surrender to the outcome, knowing that if I am guided in this direction, that I'll be cared for and that it's going to be okay. And again, only the interconnectivity of our healing work and spirituality is what allows this to really blossom in a beautiful way. So I invite you to step into it in any way that feels valuable or. Or not valuable, possible for you. And a reminder that everything about you makes sense, all parts, always. And your current orientation towards your spirituality does, too. Want to get more of these tools straight into your inbox? I send free teachings most Wednesdays that cover a wide range of topics, from relationships and purpose to Parts work and connecting with your truth. Use the link in the show notes below to join my email. Female Community all right, welcome back, Rachel. It is good to have you here today to talk about spirituality and the nervous system and healing and all things. I am really excited to get to the questions that we have today, but first I just want to ask you how has this worked help your relationship with your spirituality?