Ep. 124: The Story of Armor Coffee

Summary

You, Me & Mike – Ep. 124: The Story of Armor Coffee
Release Date: November 17, 2022
Hosts: Jenn Todryk (@theramblingredhead) & Mike Todryk
Podcast: The Rambling Redhead / Thirteen Media

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Episode Overview

In this in-depth episode, Jenn and Mike Todryk share the origin story of Armor Coffee, their local craft coffee shop (and now brewing business). The conversation covers the challenges and triumphs of entrepreneurship, navigating COVID-19, branding decisions, the realities of small business ownership, the importance of community, and practical insights for aspiring business owners. The episode is filled with candid stories, actionable advice, memorable moments, and the Todryks’ signature banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Entrepreneurial Origins & The Leap to Coffee (00:20 – 04:44)

• Timeline Recap: This episode is a direct follow-up to their previous discussion (“The Entrepreneur in You,” Pt. 1), picking up on Mike’s early entrepreneurial ambitions and the eventual acquisition of what would become Armor Coffee.
• Early Concept: Mike explored the idea of a co-working café called The Armory, inspired partly by the WeWork trend (01:08).
• Acquisition Strategy:
  • Decision to buy an existing coffee shop (“The Village Coffee”) to avoid starting at zero.
  • Advantages included inheriting trained staff and established processes (03:21).
  • They paid cash for the business, avoiding initial debt, which “gave us a lot of security” (03:35).
• Key Lesson: Attempting to keep his corporate job while launching the business nearly led Mike to burnout:
  • “Not you can’t do both. Don’t do it. Unless you have a full time ops person that you really trust, you cannot.” – Mike (04:28)

2. Navigating the Pandemic (04:44 – 07:45)

• Timing: Mike left his corporate job a month before the COVID-19 shutdowns (04:57).
• Unique Challenges: While Jenn filmed her HGTV show, Mike suddenly became full-time at-homer and homeschooler, launching a business in crisis.
• Drive-Thru Lifeline: The business survived thanks to its drive-thru and ability to remain open as an essential food business, even with a limited menu.
  • “Our saving grace were like, the two croissants that we had at the time.” – Jenn (06:47)
• Community Support: Local patrons and Jenn’s Instagram followers were key to making it through: “You guys kept our business going. You kept our doors open in Covid.” – Jenn (07:24)

3. Brand Identity & The Naming Journey (07:45 – 10:45)

• From ‘The Village’ to ‘Armor Coffee’:
  • Mike wanted a unique, personal brand and a stronger mission-driven identity.
  • A trademark issue forced a rename from “The Armory” to “Armor.”
• Faith-Informed Branding:
  • Mike finds Psalm 91:4 (“God’s faithful promises are your armor and protection”) in an old Bible, confirming the new name’s significance.
  • “So God's faithful promises are your armor and protection.” – Mike (10:45)
  • Jenn coins “#ArmorUp” as a brand mantra.

4. Building Community & Culture (10:45 – 13:46)

• Armor’s space hosts Bible studies, student groups, and community connections.
  • “It's the way it's a community to connect and to be out and create relationships.” – Jenn (11:19)
• COVID has underscored the human need for in-person gathering, even as drive-thrus remain popular.

5. Business Growth Philosophy (13:22 – 17:31)

• Focus on Brick and Mortar: Strengthening local, physical spaces is prioritized over quick online scaling.
  • “That's still our number one focus.” – Jenn (13:22)
• Quality Over Quantity: Refusal to sacrifice core values for fast growth.
  • “I will never… sacrifice quality and customer experience for quick buck.” – Mike (14:11)
• Reality Check:
  • “If anyone tells you you’re going to be a millionaire owning one coffee shop… don’t believe them.” – Jenn (14:14)
  • Coffee shops are low-margin, high-touch businesses—only viable as owner-operators or by scaling to multiple locations.

6. Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs (15:24 – 18:57)

• Jenn & Mike’s Core Business Advice:
  • Be passionate.
  • Identify a real need/solve an actual problem.
    • “Are you solving a problem? An actual problem?” – Jenn (15:38)
  • Be ready to work harder than ever.
  • Prepare for less income at the start—and for longer than expected.
  • Balance family and business with deliberate boundaries.
    • “It's really, really easy to not shut it off... you have to really tell yourself, nope, for these three hours, we're gonna have dinner time, family time.” – Jenn (18:12)

7. Resilience Through Setbacks & the Power of Pivoting (18:57 – 20:16)

• Grit and Pivots: The journey is full of grind, setbacks, and pivots. “Every failure is only failure if you don’t learn.” – Mike (30:20)
• **A business is not an identity—being willing to sell or evolve is healthy and realistic.

8. Favorite (and Hardest) Parts of Entrepreneurship (20:17 – 28:17)

• Favorite Part – Mike: Creating jobs, meaningful culture, providing a workplace people are proud of (20:41).
• Favorite Part – Jenn: Witnessing employee excitement, thriving culture, and great customer reviews (24:30).
• Tangible Pride: Seeing Armor T-shirts “in the wild,” i.e., people representing the brand (22:12).
• Biggest Heartbreak: Experiencing employee theft early was crushing and shook their optimism, but ultimately made them wiser and tougher (34:40).
  • “If you’re going to be embarrassed and take it as like a value as a person, don’t be an entrepreneur because you don’t know what you freaking don’t know…” – Jenn (31:26)

9. Hiring, Delegation, and Scaling (31:26 – 46:49)

• Learning to invest in hiring people smarter or more experienced than themselves, e.g., bringing in an operations partner (Kyler) was transformative (31:44).
• Delegating — especially creative and marketing processes — is necessary for sustainable expansion.
• Marketing Lessons: Early marketing relied entirely on Jenn’s Instagram and word of mouth; realizing the need for dedicated, professional marketing as they grow (43:42).

10. Fear, Doubt, and Faith (37:13 – 42:56)

• Jenn admits to little business fear—she trusts her gut (and Mike), prays, and says she’s not risk-averse.
• Mike confesses to constant fear and doubt, checking contingencies—but sees it as useful for warranting caution and responsibility.
  • “I have constant fear and doubt… but it’s about looking at the worst case of things and my brain looks at contingencies.” – Mike (40:01)
  • Faith and courage help him act in the face of fear.

11. Vision, Expansion, and the Definition of Success (46:49 – 51:45)

• Mike reveals his “Vision to Reality Board” (VTR), underscoring deliberate planning for expansion (multiple coffee shops, breweries, potential franchising).
• Defining Success:
  • Jenn: A balanced, happy life doing work you love, providing for your family, and being a good parent and spouse (47:30).
  • Mike: Quotes a sports psychologist: “Success is the pursuit of a goal worthy of your time.” (49:12)
  • Deep relationships—not money—are the key to long-term happiness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Not you can’t do both. Don’t do it. Unless you have a full-time ops person that you really trust...” — Mike (04:28)
• “Our saving grace were like, the two croissants that we had at the time.” — Jenn (06:47)
• “God’s faithful promises are your armor and protection.” — Mike, quoting Psalm 91 (10:45)
• “If anyone tells you you’re going to be a millionaire owning one coffee shop… don’t believe them.” — Jenn (14:14)
• “Every failure is only failure if you don’t learn.” — Mike (30:20)
• “I never regret anything because every heartbreak or hiccup we’ve had… what came from it is something so much better because it made us better, stronger.” — Jenn (31:26)
• “Marketing is something we need to work on… as we expand.” — Mike (44:06)
• “I have constant fear and doubt... but it’s about looking at the worst case of things and my brain looks at contingencies.” — Mike (40:01)
• “Success is the pursuit of a goal worthy of your time.” — Mike, quoting Dr. Milt Lauder (49:12)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:20: Introduction & recap, setting up the Armor Coffee origin story
• 01:17: Mike’s early business ideas and market research
• 03:21: Benefits and risks of acquiring vs. starting a business
• 04:28: On the impossibility of juggling a coffee shop and a corporate job
• 06:47: How drive-thru and two baguettes kept them open during COVID
• 10:45: Discovery of “Armor” in Psalm 91 and its significance
• 13:22: Why brick-and-mortar community spaces are their main focus
• 14:14: “If anyone tells you you’re going to be a millionaire…”—coffee shop realities
• 18:12: Family/business balance—intentional time off
• 20:41: Favorite parts of entrepreneurship for Mike
• 22:12: Jenn spots an Armor T-shirt in Target
• 24:30: Jenn’s favorite part—cultivating positive culture
• 31:26: Learning resilience from setbacks (theft incident)
• 34:40: Deep dive into learning after setbacks
• 40:01: Mike on living with fear and using it as a tool
• 43:42: Evolving from social media to professional marketing
• 46:49: Mike’s “Vision to Reality” board and plans for franchising
• 47:30: Jenn and Mike on the meaning of success

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Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, frank, humorous, and laced with practical advice. Jenn and Mike’s dynamic is both supportive and playful, blending serious business lessons with personal anecdotes, behind-the-scenes realities, and honest reflections. Their open, faith-driven perspective informs much of their decision-making and approach to setbacks.

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Final Takeaways

• Armor Coffee’s story is a blend of faith, community focus, entrepreneurial hustle, and learning through adversity.
• Success in small business is about much more than profit—it's about people, culture, and meaningful work.
• Real-world advice: Know your market, be prepared to work hard, hire great people, pivot as needed. And—never underestimate the power of a drive-thru (and a supportive local community).

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This episode offers a candid, practical, and inspiring roadmap for anyone dreaming of starting—or surviving—an independent, community-based business.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to you, me and Mike. I'm Jen Todrick, otherwise known as the rambling Redhead on Instagram and the host and Designer of no DiMareno on HGTV.

[B]

And I'm Mike and I'm also known.

[A]

As Mike and he's Mike.

[B]

Applause anyone? Applause.

[A]

Welcome back, guys, to the podcast.

[B]

Hey, it's part two.

[A]

This is a part two. So if you have not listened to part one on the entrepreneur in you. Yes. Of the.

[B]

See what I just meant. The entrepreneur in you. This is what this is called. This is. That's. That is what.

[A]

That's the title.

[B]

That's the title.

[A]

That's what the title.

[B]

I just made it up right now.

[A]

It's pretty good marketing. If you haven't listened to the first part about Mike's background and kind of the beginning of our entrepreneur journey, please listen to that part one. But right now we're going to dive into specifically Armor Coffee, Armor Brewing, and pretty much answer questions about that you guys have submitted about business. Yeah. Okay, so where should we pick back up?

[B]

So you. The. The last one we're talking about is when I went back and talked to the business owner at the time. So I had this other idea called the Armory, which was a co working and a cafe. It had a coffee shop in it. And I did a whole bunch of market research about, like, who goes to co working facilities are familiar to WeWork.

[A]

Basically. We were. Yeah, except we work wasn't as big.

[B]

It. Well, it was actually huge then. It was. It was exploding at the time now that they've condensed. So I thought, wait, what?

[A]

Did I just totally say that wrong?

[B]

No, they were, they were growing. They were growing.

[A]

They were growing up.

[B]

They were, they were the new kids on the block.

[A]

They were new, rapidly growing.

[B]

And I was like, I felt that that business was good for people that were in office buildings. And I was like, well, just like gyms had these big, massive gyms. Sometimes there are smaller boutiques because it's easier to get in and out. You get what you need and you don't pay for all the overhead. Right, right. I was like, well, make the co working facility smaller and add a cafe next to it that you don't have to pay month because if you buy coffee every day or get food, it ultimately kind of nets up to the same. And so I did a whole bunch of research on the cafe component. When this opportunity came up to buy the coffee shop was called the Village. At the time, I was. It really.

[A]

It was called Saxby's.

[B]

No, it's Called the Village. It was coffee.

[A]

Oh, yeah, you're right. My bad. It was Saxby's first. They changed it and did a little. A little facelift to make it Village Coffee, which we actually like the name Village. But you did.

[B]

I didn't.

[A]

Oh, did. Is it just me?

[B]

It was. It was.

[A]

I mean, I wanted to change it and make it ours because we always had a plan, but I was like, man, it's not a horrible name anyways.

[B]

Yeah. So my biggest fear after, if you listen to part one, my brother had, was originally part of it. He. He ended up pulling out of it for his. For great reasons again. And the biggest fear I had was running the coffee and cafe component because I have no food and beverage background before this. None.

[A]

I've also told this man, I will not run a restaurant with you and I will not run a bar with you. Fast forward to 2022. We have both and you continue.

[B]

Awesome means I love you. Get a bug on it. It's like, it's a fun thing, is it's experiential. So we purchased the coffee shop and ultimately, if you're going into business, you can start a business, you can do a franchise or you can buy an existing business. Kind of the three ways to get in. Right. I mean, that's basically it. And I still wanted to create and build our own, but have buying something that existed. I wasn't starting at like zero. I was starting at maybe half. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there was a leg up of having people that were already trained and experienced that I didn't have to do it. So I got to learn from them through the acquisition. And you know, what you buy companies for in value. There's all. I mean, that's a whole. Listen to other podcasts on it or other books or maybe there'd be another podcast on it. But there's things that are called EBITDA and then and finance and profits and there's whole different reasons what you can buy for what the multiples are and things like that. But ultimate ultimately got, I think, a fair deal on. On this. There was something that we were able to buy with cash because we had saved money, so we didn't go into debt for it. So it was something we were walking in a position that we weren't at an instant like, oh crap, we have a. Like a huge note and we're worried about things. So it gave us a lot of security. And at this, at that time, I was still working for Abbott because I had all this little naivety that I.

[A]

Could say wasn't super expensive. It wasn't like, the lease is expensive.

[B]

Yeah, no, that was the liability. The liabilities were the biggest kind of risk factors around it. But I was also working for Abbott at the same time. And I told my company, I'm like, I'm doing this. I'm gonna do this on the side. It's gonna be easy. I gotta. I got a general manager.

[A]

And Mike was still trying to juggle both jobs at this point. He was, by the way, in his corporate job.

[B]

By the way. Fun fact and maybe fast forward on some of the questions that you may ask. Not you can't do both.

[A]

Don't do it.

[B]

Unless you have a full time ops person that you really trust. You cannot.

[A]

You can't juggle both.

[B]

You can't do everything. Because something had to give. And I almost had a mental breakdown at one point during COVID when it was happening. I can't do everything.

[A]

No, co. You were done. You left. You left a month before COVID Because I remember when Covet hit, we were like, what the heck did we just do? Leaving your job.

[B]

That's true. That was. It did happen before. It was. That's right.

[A]

It was the month before. So I was. We were so brave.

[B]

Timing all blends together, y'.

[A]

All. I'm not kidding. We were so freaking brave. Right? Leave the corporate job and then Covid hits the next month. We were those people in a food and beverage. Like, yeah. We were like, like, my gosh, this is a lesson learned. God's trying to tell us to stay in our lane. The same it.

[B]

Do what you do.

[A]

And to add a layer of, like, frustration. I had just was starting to film season one, and so I was gone and Mike went from corporate job to literally a homeschool full time dad at home while I was filming. And he was trying to get this business up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

While homeschooling a kid.

[B]

Yeah. It was a lot.

[A]

Two kids or just one kid?

[B]

It was three kids.

[A]

No, Viv was not in school. You, Craig?

[B]

Oh, not in school. No, no, I was homeschooling. Yeah. Vaughn and Berkeley. Yeah. That was at the point where I lost a patch of hair. It's called alopecia and it's onset through stress.

[A]

It's not funny. I'm not laughing. I'm sorry.

[B]

So if you go back to season one of no Demareno, there's a couple episodes. You can see it. I did my hat on and there is this, like, this is true. It was like a half dollar. I mean, it's big.

[A]

Where my bald.

[B]

Circular back of his head. No hair, none stress. Yeah. It's localized alopecia.

[A]

But you know what? I don't. What's crazy is maybe we were just so busy and, like, flying by the seat of our pants, but I don't look back and be like, that was a hard time in our marriage, like, at all. I don't remember us fighting a lot. I just think we were both trying our best. And you were also. While you were stressed, it was also an ex. Well, once we got over that month of, like, fear, and we're like, okay, this is gonna be all right. Oh. And we moved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The month.

[B]

The saving grace of our business at the time when people couldn't go in was the drive through.

[A]

No, our drive through really helped this. Our saving grace were like, the two croissants that we had at the time. Do you remember that, Mike? Because we served these two baguettes that were just delivered in. Yeah. That they. We were just at that time functioning as the business before. We hadn't gotten our chef in. We hadn't made the menu what it was. We were just, you know, handing over everything that they had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But because we had these two baguettes that were just nothing special, those guys kept us open as essential because it was food. And so we had a drive through, and so we could. We could stay working. I mean, nuts.

[B]

And also, it's a God thing.

[A]

I mean, it was a God thing, but also it's the people, honestly, truth be told, our local community, as well as people who found us from following our journey on Instagram. Like, you guys kept our business going. You kept our doors open in Covid because we were a brand new, ran company, and anytime that happens, people leave.

[B]

There's one. There's one more thing that was happening during the month that Covid happened as well.

[A]

What?

[B]

Remember the renovation? So part of the brand, Evans.

[A]

I keep forgetting. There's so many layers. Then we took on a renovation.

[B]

So with the renovation of the coffee shop. So when we purchased this coffee shop, one of the biggest issues I had was I just. I. Local was identity, because it was called Village. I didn't. I didn't think the brand. For me, it didn't. It didn't connect me because I didn't make it. And maybe the old owners, maybe the village mattered something to them. It didn't matter much. Like, the name didn't connect to me. I did. I just didn't feel that there was enough identity for me to say, I'm Happy keeping this. Plus, we were one of the reasons why I became an entrepreneur. And where I really wanted to make something that's ours was to grow, was to create something. It's that. It's that creative growth aspect of building something that you've been a part of that is bigger than you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so it wasn't our vision. No. So the Armory became Armor. Why? You remember?

[A]

Yes, why? I remember because of the verse.

[B]

No, it was because of a trademark issue initially.

[A]

Oh, not the sim. Yes, I remember that because there was something in California.

[B]

Yeah. So you're running, like, things of lawyers going down. I even had, like, a logo and stuff, and.

[A]

Which I was bummed. I loved the Armor.

[B]

And then I thought that was cool. And then my attorney came back. He's like, hey, man, bad news. There's a trademark for this. So I would not recommend doing it. You can risk it, and if they don't fight you, you. You can, you know, have caused. Later he goes, or just figure out. So Jen and I were spitballing on what the name would be, and. And I pitched Armorer because it just drops the Y. It was an armor officer. And I was like, it's kind of weird name. Armor Coffee. I kept like, is it too much of a mouthfeel? And you're the one. You're like, I kind of like it. That's what you told me.

[A]

What?

[B]

Armor.

[A]

Armor, yeah. I'm the one that came up with hashtag Armor up.

[B]

You did.

[A]

I'm very proud of that.

[B]

But when. But when I was looking for confirmation again, I go back to praying about things, and God has spoken to me in, you know, not maybe, like, verbally, but in different ways. And this one, I pulled this old Bible, which. And I don't know if you follow the stories for a long time, but she kicked him out of my office and put me up to the upstairs game room for my new office.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. She didn't kick you out.

[B]

True. You kicked me out.

[A]

No. You complained about the noise, and then his butt went upstairs, and then he complained that it was too lonely. True story.

[B]

It is true. Well, it's because in Haley, those. Remember, Haley is working from the kitchen table as well. And you're like, you needed a spot. It made. It made sense for you.

[A]

Haley and I were working on my dining room table all day, so I.

[B]

Moved upstairs, and I was cleaning my desk out, and I found this old Bible that my dad had written a verse before my deployment in the front of it, and it just said, for you, Michael, Psalm 91. Right. And that's known as the soldier's prayer. And you can read it and look at it. But so I flip it open because it was literally that day. I'm like, all right, something here. So I read it Psalm 91 for paraphrasing. And in this version, it's in. It's the. The living, new living time, new living translation. I think it's what is. It's the only translation that this word's used in it. But it says, for God's faithful promises are your armor and protection. So God, you know, take shelter under the wings of Lord most high, for his faithful promises are your armor and protection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, armor. I was literally. We had written out. I just talked to you and I'm like, all right, God's faithful promise. I've been praying about this business because I've been praying about this business for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to do something that honors him, honors the family, honors the community and does something that creates experiences that really honestly create impact in people's lives. It's not the product. I don't think the coffee, although we make amazing product. But I think what we have that's going special for Armor right now is the people that are there and it's the. My. Our employees, the way they treat people and likewise. I think it's even supports it.

[A]

I would say I think it's even more so like what does the building hold? And it's a lot of Bible studies and meet and greets and students who are studying. It's the way it's a community for to connect and to be out and create relationships and then think about how.

[B]

Much more how important that is. Over the last two years of how separated we've been, that face to face interaction, connect. And now look, we got a drive through. And I'm as guilty as anyone where I need that fix. Sometimes you just go through like I gotta get that drive through. Which. Where our location's good because you can go through it. But you know, when you're, when you're, when you're looking at the business, it's does. Is there a need. And there was a need in our community for having a craft coffee shop. I felt that the quality we can improve. I probably focus too much on like perfecting things and maybe slow things down a little bit because I'm like, I want these things to be not just good, but great. If we're gonna focus our time on it, we're going to do it. Don't have. Don't have to it right. Do it right. And if you can do. If you know and always do it the right way all the time just because that's the right thing to do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right. So that has been incredible. And I think, you know, one of the bigger things we've been super lucky about is despite some hiccups on some leadership early on in our, in our.

[A]

Career with, oh, we've had people steal from us. I mean, it's been, it's been, it's.

[B]

There's, there's been, there's been some, there's been some speed bumps we've hit that we've. You've absolutely learned through. But right now, I mean, we have a great, great group of people that have partnered with us and I've been very blessed to bring really good people on that know way more about the business than I do and allowing us to be able to grow and expand and things. So. Yeah, anyway.

[A]

Yeah, anyway. So that's pretty much where it came to be as far as where we are with Armor. You know, we went back and forth a long time about, we even do now honestly, about like, okay, what if we made a product and just like sold it online? And I, in so many ways that would be so easier. But we went the brick and mortar route and that is still our number one focus is like creating brick and mortar places where people can connect and locals. We can be a footprint in our community and serve and give back where we can. And that's still our number one focus.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not the quickest way. You know, it's not the quickest money maker to be completely transparent. But like, that's the way that we want to do it. That's how we want to get assisting. If you do you want to spread.

[B]

Slowly, create sustainability, create lasting brand that connects longer and you know, look, we've launched our online program right now. You can go to armor coffee.com and, and check out our online program. We got coffee there, we got T shirts there and shows up at your door.

[A]

You can subscribe and get some bags of caffeine.

[B]

Can I drop a little seat? Little fun. Fun fact?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Secret.

[A]

Drop it now.

[B]

Black Friday. We're gonna have some new stuff. Showing a lot of new stuff. It's going to be pretty cool. And, and that's. And so we're focusing on the, on those things. But we're trying to be. To be. Or at least I'm trying to be. Well, we're both mean. I mean, we're being strategic and slow because I will never. What I don't want to do is sacrifice quality and customer experience for quick buck. Yeah, I don't want to do that. And I've been.

[A]

And if anyone tells you you're going to be a millionaire and in owning one coffee shop, very. Don't believe them. They're so full of crap.

[B]

Coffee.

[A]

Coffee shop. Ain't it?

[B]

Coffee shops are really comp. They're, they're not the highest margin business in the world.

[A]

You have to love it and you have to like more than just the money profit aspect. You have to. Otherwise don't do it.

[B]

Yeah, you got, you have to do it. You have to have multiple shops to, to, to, you know, create probably income replacement. Now if you, if you work in the shop and you're the gen and your owner operator, you can do well, but you got to be an owner operator, you got to be the general manager and you can, you can make a good career doing that as well and you could own one shop. But if you're thinking it's going to be a side passive investment, it's not.

[A]

You're, you're very hands on.

[B]

You need people. It's. And it needs, you need good people. You need to. Well, you do. If you're going to expect good talent and good people. It's, it's a, it's a service business. Like your baristas are basically chefs. Right.

[A]

I feel like it's an extension of our family even. Like I take that stuff to heart. And so that's just every hire is like super important and anyone should feel that way. You don't have to be on TV to feel that way. That's like, that's like pride in you and your name and in your honor.

[B]

But what I, you know, like if people are out there looking to start their own business right now, the first thing I would say to you is make sure number one, you're passionate about it. Number two, there's a need for that business.

[A]

That's smart. That's very smart. Is there a need, Are you solving a problem? An actual problem? And I guess our problem was there was no local coffee shop except I mean we were buying it. Except Starbucks. That wasn't even super close. And Starbucks is like, I mean Starbucks is Starbucks.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And it's. But it's a different product. We're a craft.

[B]

You can, you can have a McDonald's next to a Burger King and they both can succeed. Right. People are looking for options. And again I have many theories on how coffee's, you know, fractionating and why things are changing in the coffee world and there's more brands that are coming everywhere. I'm calling it, I, I'm coining it the caffeine wars right now because there are like regional and national players popping up left and right.

[A]

Coffee is cool right now and coffee is super trendy.

[B]

And also what's, what's what the trend right now is to get rid of cafes and just bring drive throughs. Look at Dutch brothers and sip and all these things. Like it's just drive through, grab your coffee and go. But that's not creating connection. Like I want to do, do something different. So again, look for the need we.

[A]

Have to drive through if you don't want connection and you're late to work. But if you do want connection, we have the inside and that's also just.

[B]

Being like responsible for understanding your market. Right. So again, that goes back to the need because there is a need for convenience in coffee. There is a need. I got three kids in the car. I'm not unbuckling my, my kid, my scre kid in the car seat right now to go get a cup of coffee. No way I'm doing that in the rain or whatever. So. So there are times where it's just, I'll wait. You'll wait. Most people wait 10 minutes, 15 minutes sometimes because you're like, just, just want to get my coffee. It's worth it to not unbuckle everyone because I don't want to see people the way I look right now. Right. And that's all people.

[A]

But so I told Mike from the beginning, I'm like, we can never own a coffee shop without a drive through. He's like, Jen, we can have one without. I'm like, nope, I do not stand behind it. So if we ever have one without a drive thru guys, it's. I lost that argument because I'm like, I will not go to a coffee shop. I will skip that one and go a little further as a drive through if I have all three of my kids, especially when I was a stay at home mom.

[B]

Yeah, the other, the other advice. So what I say the. Make sure there's, make sure you're passionate. Make sure there's a need. Make sure that you know that you're going to be working more than you probably have ever worked in your life.

[A]

To start off for sure. Yeah.

[B]

It's. If you are going to do an entrepreneurial job. It's not, not there is. This isn't a. Hey, you Know, I'm just gonna work a couple hours a day. And they do this. It becomes everything. And it's not. And that does not a negative thing, because there is balance. Like, you know, our family, we've created compartmentalizations. Time with the kids, and I still think we do a good job of juggling, but it's constant. It's a constant part that's part of you, because the job that it's. It's everything you are. Right. And then the last thing is.

[A]

Let me elaborate on that. It's easy to work full time because it's like, right on your phone, especially. It's your own business, you know, even me, my business. It's right there. So it's really, really easy to not shut it off because you're like, why would I? You know? And you have to really tell yourself, nope, for these three hours, we're gonna have dinner time, family time. Once the kids go to bed, if it's cool with my spouse and she or he has something else she wants to do, then I can pick it back up if I choose to do so.

[B]

So, yeah, for sure. So, yeah, it's. It's. You're gonna work more. It's going to be harder than you think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're going to make less money early on than you actually expect.

[A]

And you know why you do that? Because you got the hope that later on in life it'll be a little easier. But it is, but you'll coast later at some point.

[B]

But it takes time.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It takes time and patience.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Assistance and resilience. And any entrepreneur will tell you that it's not. I mean, there are some people that hit it right away and they get lucky that. But that's the. Yeah, that's like the minority. The majority of people that. That are in business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's a lot of grind and hustle and grit and failures that come your way and you learn from them and you got to keep persevering, pushing through and. And eventually. Other thing is, the realities with business is that there's a certain time where if it's not working out, it's okay to pivot as well. Like, we've pivoted business plans. I've had all these other ideas and the armory pivoted into the art, into armor. And that way you could look at that as a failure. I could look at that as a God thing to say that was the right thing for us to do. To focus on one category. Right. And those. And that's. If somebody were you know, 5, 10, 20 years from now, armor becomes something that is no longer right for a family. Would I sell it? I would, yeah. It's. Do I want to pass this on to our gener, our family? Great. Would I like to franchise? Of course. But it doesn't mean that this is something so tied that I will sacrifice everything for the long term for it. That's just the way I look at it. And that's just business. That's more of a business mindset. It's like me selling homes. How emotionally tied. I'm into hoes.

[A]

Jen, I had to tell you to have a heart and a soul because a home is a lovely place of love.

[B]

And I looked at it.

[A]

Not just a price, I looked at.

[B]

I looked at homes for a long time as investments.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The end. And because I can live in an apartment and be fine anyway.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

You got any questions, Jen?

[A]

I do. I have some on paper here that people had asked just randomly like throughout last couple of years, like DMS or whatnot. And these are the things that come to mind that I always see. I think the easiest one is let's start with a positive. What's your favorite part of being entrepreneur? What's your favorite part?

[B]

I think we're creating something, right? We're seeing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We're building something that we can see growth through. And. And the other thing is, and I don't want to sound. This doesn't sound cheesy, but the truth is is creating jobs is awesome.

[A]

It like makes you feel good.

[B]

It really does.

[A]

I don't know how to else to explain it, but it's like, it sounds cheesy and like I always, I don't. This sounds bad. I don't even know if I want to admit this, but like companies, you know, like when I was younger, when you're younger in college, you'd hear be like, and what the great thing about our company is that we create this many jobs in the community. And I just remember always being like that go over my head and it wouldn't be like a huge like selling point for me if I heard in a presentation or whatnot. But now that I'm a business owner, it's like makes you really proud because the more jobs you can create, it means that your business is thriving and it means that you're able to do that.

[B]

But it's not just creating jobs because there's jobs out there, but it's kidding jobs that people have a culture and a good organization that they're proud to be a part of. And look, let's be honest, in the food and beverage business and being a barista or a server or whatever, and it's. It's a hard job. And maybe, maybe you do it for six months, maybe do it for a year. But if people come to into Armor and they work for us and are like, this is fun. It was a good time to work there for six months, a year, two years, maybe they go into management, they stay for long term. But it's still, if they come in, they're part of the organization, they feel that they're part of a team, and they're really building them up and they're vibing with. I mean, really, it's about culture creation and development. And that's what I. That's what I love about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Love it. I mean, the goal is, is that our culture continues to expand and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Okay, so that's your favorite part.

[B]

Yeah. And isn't it cool? It is fun to see Armor T shirts in the wild.

[A]

Yeah, it's very fun. Oh, my gosh. I was in. Where was I? Was I in Target? And I saw one, like, one aisle down, I saw someone wearing like a.

[B]

Bright yellow armor, the OG ones.

[A]

And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's cool. And I didn't want to, like, it's. I never am like, oh, my gosh.

[B]

I'm gonna bring the yellow ones back.

[A]

But I saw it and I was like, oh, my gosh, we're in Target.

[B]

I kind of nerd out on the T shirt. I spend way too much time on graphic design and things like that. I probably waste. I. I bottleneck things because I. I genuinely spend a lot of time on T shirts and, and labels and logos and things like that. I love that part of it. I. That's another thing I genuinely love and, and seeing people have that and feeling that they're connected to our brand and our. Our people and our company and us. That's. That's pretty cool. I mean, that's. That's fun.

[A]

All right, I want to take a quick moment to talk about today's sponsor, which is Raycon. You have definitely heard of Raycon. On my Instagram, if you follow over there. I've talked about them for over a year. They're amazing earbuds. I love them so much. These are the ones that are sweat resistant, water resistant. I've literally dropped them in a cup of coffee and then rinsed them off with water, and they still kick into this day. I barely charge Those Suckers, they have 32 hour battery life, but I swear it's more than that. They are amazing in half the price of other premium audio brands. It's no shock to me. Why? They have over 50,000 five star reviews. These are the earbuds that I put in my ear and mic and we shook our heads like a freaking rock star and they do not move, they do not budge, they feel awesome in your ear. They have a flat profile to where you can lay on the pillow and watch your shows at night and they're not. Not sticking out of your head. Amazing. I cannot recommend them more. I love them so much. I have way too many pairs that I'm willing to admit because I want them in every room in my house because I use them every single day. Again, those are the everyday earbuds. Go to buyraycon.com today and use code RAMBLING to get 20 off of your Raycon order. We're gonna do a spelling bee here for a second. It's by B U Y raycon. R a y C-O-N.com code rambling as in rambling redhead for 20% off. You will not be disappointed.

[B]

Well, what's your favorite part?

[A]

I. My favorite part, hands down, is when I say, like, watching it thrive. It sounds like it's more of like a selfish thing, like ear business is making it. But I think it's more of like watching people get excited about new things coming. So, like, when we got our chef, everyone in the shop was really excited about that. Or whenever we did special event nights, everyone was really excited about that. I like watching. So I guess, I guess I'm changing my answer as I'm talking. I really like it. Whenever I see employees, like get really excited about stuff, I think it makes me happy. It's like we.

[B]

It's a culture thing.

[A]

Yeah, it's a culture thing. And we're, you know, we're a normal business. Well, we always get it. Kids or people who don't love it and they leave and there's a sure, yes, that's gonna happen, you know, but for the majority, I feel like we have always had really good goodbyes whenever people leave or if people stay and they stay really happy. So I think I like seeing the employees and having a good time. And I also love seeing, like, reviews that specifically call out. Customer service being great.

[B]

That's awesome. That's the best.

[A]

I'm really. Customer service is like number one for me. And I don't know why. I think it's because I Have like a background of like I started. Well, number one, I was a waitress too. I've been a bartender in college. But then I also worked in the retail side. And so I'm very customer service based. I've always understood customer service. I've understood that you smile if someone is spitting in your face and it will work out better for you in the end. And so when I see that, it makes me really happy as well. I don't know mine, the answer is not as cool as yours.

[B]

But that stuff you're saying, I mean, I think you're actually saying almost the exact same thing. Yeah, I mean it really, it's, it's creating.

[A]

I like watching it grow.

[B]

It's creating the brand, creating a culture, creating an organization that isn't. That's bit kind of bigger than us. Right.

[A]

Let's be real. Armor Coffee is our fourth child. So like watching every y'. All, I'm not kidding. This is the best analogy now that I'm thinking this through, watching everything, one baby step of like us being able to afford brand new furniture, us putting wallpaper up in the, in the bonus room that people rent out to use, all that little stuff is like watching your baby do like these things. It's a huge investment, not only of money, but it's our time and our mental. Our whole family is invested in this. You know, we've got our. My parents rooting for us, your parents rooting for us. And so every little step is like another net that we're grabbing onto to where we can go for it.

[B]

Yeah, we were. Yeah. For sure. I mean like there's a blessing. There's so many things that have happened in on just the small one coffee shop that we have. And you know, right now it's one coffee shop. And you know, next year or this year actually next year, because it's almost. We'll have the brewery, we'll have a couple more shops. We're at, at a lease for another spot, which I'm not going to announce.

[A]

Spilling tea.

[B]

Yeah. There's more things. We're growing, but we will be expanding. Yeah, that's happening. It's, it's, it's.

[A]

God willing.

[B]

Yeah. And, but, but even creating Armor and doing that remodel, putting your, your kind of mark on it, which was fun for me to bring you into this to be able to like help the design and put like the Gen Todrick touch on things. It really made it feel intimate and cool. I mean that shop was bootleg between us and our GC Jake I mean, we did that thing on a budget and it turned out so incredibly cool. And even from that, we've learned a lot. Remember, we added the coffee menu. I brought a beer and wine program. And I look at a business again as that, that Find your market. Do something that's different than what your competition doing. And ours is bringing amazing food. Create great, incredible service. Roaster, your own coffee on shop. Create a brand that I just think is kind of like, what, Ba. Is that the word? Can I say that? Can I say ba?

[A]

Ba yeah. What's that stand for?

[B]

Bad. Bad donkey.

[A]

Yes, you may. I think everyone understands it's a bad.

[B]

Donkey business, but I, but I, I, I really genuinely, like, I'm, I'm stoked where this is going. We have so many people. I, we. There are so many more questions.

[A]

It's okay, let's take a few more. Next question I liked is, what would you change about your business journey if you could go back?

[B]

Oh, it's a good one.

[A]

I mean, I have like, the most obvious one, but also, like, it's kind of stupid to say it because everyone learns and they get better with business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we both know what.

[B]

You know, I've said this, Somebody asked me this question once before, and I know this is gonna sound weird, but I wish I would have taken the risk to entrepreneurship sooner.

[A]

Oh, that's it. I didn't think you were gonna say that.

[B]

Yeah, okay. But at the same time, it was the right time and wouldn't be armor if we didn't do it now because the timing to buy the shop wouldn't have been there. Right. Like, I feel like you can say all that.

[A]

You can. It's all God's plan. But I do happen the way it's supposed to happen.

[B]

But again, I know, like, again, what would you do different? I, I, I wish I would have taken the leap. I wish I would have executed one of the ideas I had sooner and really pushed forward with that a little bit earlier in my life.

[A]

I don't think that's true because then we wouldn't have had capital to do it. Like, if you think about that stuff.

[B]

It doesn't make sense alone. I mean, I'm being serious. Like, but I would say this pre marriage and kids would have been easier.

[A]

Oh, totally.

[B]

Like, there's less, there's less things. You have to worry about having three children. There's more if the, the, the risk ratios felt a lot higher because there's not just me involved.

[A]

I hear what you're saying.

[B]

That Would have been the time where it's like, you know, the young folks that start businesses right post college and whatnot. I mean, you know, more power to you. Because what do you guys honestly, what do you have to lose?

[A]

Like, so you're saying like that whole four year gap before I met you were single. If you would have like gotten this up and started and been rolling in and I would have been like, what's up? I'm just walking into a fucking functioning.

[B]

Yeah, that would have been great. I mean, I mean probably, I mean.

[A]

Less stress for me, but it is.

[B]

That's not trying to deter anyone during the time of any season you're doing it. But what else I think you learned? I mean, I think every mistake and every issue we've had, we've learned from. And, and I go by the adage is every failure is only times that you, it's only, the only time you fail is when you don't learn.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

That's the only time you truly fail. So if there's something that you. That doesn't go your way, that doesn't, you know, you know the numbers don't expect what you want, the employee doesn't work out. You want somebody steals money from you, whatever it may be, you learn from it and you learn that. How to, I guess avoid those pitfalls. Later, I was about to get better.

[A]

Later I was about to say like every heartbreak or hiccup we've had and have not shared publicly or gone into detail about what, what came from, it is something so much better because it made us, us better, stronger. We were tighter on things. We were zoned in better on things. And it's stuff that you look back and it's like embarrassing to talk about. Mike was so embarrassed about it and I was like, Mike, we've never, we've literally never done this. Like we're gonna learn. You can't be embarrassed otherwise. That's the thing. If you're going to be embarrassed and take it as like a value as a person, don't be an entrepreneur because you don't know what you freaking don't know until it continues. Kicks in the gonads and it hurts and it stings and it is embarrassing. You learn real quick where you can tighten the, tighten things.

[B]

I will say this and I'll actually. It's still applicable even to now. Be willing to invest and work with really good people and that know more than you. I think the thing is I would have hired more experienced people sooner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then later it took it Took me, gosh, it took until almost last year to really bring in Kyler, who is incredible, who knows so much about food and beverage. That kind of evolved us from the prior and we had good general managers and things before that as well. But Kyler was more that ops partner kind of person that had the mentality of a business owner because he was a bit. He was a business owner. Right. So it brought in a person that had a different mentality to be able to grow you to that next phase, to partner with those people, to bring on people. And I think if you didn't know.

[A]

To do that, you thought it was just on you to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, you didn't think about, I need to hire someone better than me.

[B]

So be like, hire people. It was better in you what they know. And then you bring in things. It's like a marriage.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like you, you don't want to marry somebody's only the same strengths as you. Marriages should work best when you have different strengths. Right. And, and counter, you know, contrast each other's weaknesses.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So I guess that all your weaknesses. That's what I would have been.

[A]

I got you.

[B]

Look, Jen's. And Jen's my business partner in this as well. But Jen doesn't wear the ops. She's. She is 100 behind the business and she works and I, and trust me, she hears me talking about it every single night and every new, you know, logo change or anything I go to, I'm talking to Jen and she does all the design in the coffee shop. She designed the brewery and the things she's involved in the business. But like the day to day ops.

[A]

It'S like the numbers and units and stuff. I'm like, I'm. I'm showing makeup tutorials on Instagram. Like that. I want to do the creative job. I'm not logistics. But yes, Mike loves to do the fun game at like 11:30 at night where he's like, like, okay, which coffee bag do you like better? And he shows me like seven coffee bags with like one thing different, like one has one less of a period on something or an asterisk and I cannot find the difference. I'm like, they all look so good in the same. And it drives Mike.

[B]

Well, names, names and logos and things matter, like totally.

[A]

I just don't see the difference.

[B]

I know, but you're like, you're like, you know, I hate to say this. What like, this is even though how we named our children. You're like, sounds cool. I like the way it sounds. It Feels good.

[A]

You kind of need that.

[B]

I.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

But I was like, I want meaning behind it.

[A]

Yeah. Mike wants to make a storybook out of everything. Well, like, honey, it's a cot. What we're talking about, the font on the bag, it doesn't need a meaning.

[B]

It does matter. It evokes emotion, and the texture and the details make a difference. Like our first, our coffee blend is called Kairos. Because what is kairos, Jen?

[A]

It's a type of coffee.

[B]

Yes, it is, because it's a name of our coffee blend. Yeah, but it is, is. It is. In. In old Greek mythology, there are two gods of time, Kronos, which is how time moved. It's the movement of time. And then Kairos, which was how you use time or ak opportunity. So in modern rhetoric and Christian rhetoric, it's known for taking action, the opportune moment for God's time in action. That's why I named it Cairo. So that matters.

[A]

Got it. Okay. I love that. Yeah. Every customer buying it knows that it's so great.

[B]

They do now.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

But, yeah, that's. I mean, honestly, like, I mean, that's a good question. Because what, you know, what would you have done?

[A]

I mean, I think the mine's kind of dumb. It's like the most obvious one. But I think the hardest time for us was when we had our first and only bout of theft from someone we love and trusted, an employee. And it was really shocking and a gut punch. And we were new and so we come in with, like, rose colored glasses and, like, we love everybody and, like, we want to create a happy place and like, just Kumbaya because Mike and I are peppy and we really felt like something was, like, stripped from us a little bit. We felt like, are we naive? Do we need to, like, not act this way? Like, do you remember that? Like, us, we were like, are we coming off, like, too nice? Like, and we. We did not adjust ourselves. We ended up being like, no, this is not. This is who we are. This is who we choose to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But it was like a shake, like, to us of, like, how do we handle this? And, like. And it was. It shook us. I think it was just a freaking heartbreak is like the best. Right way.

[B]

Well, it goes that. I mean, part of that is I still get emotional.

[A]

I'm getting emotional now. It was like. It was so hard.

[B]

Yeah. It's because we were really close to.

[A]

To.

[B]

To our people, and we still are. And, you know, it's. It's as we grow. It's harder to know every. In every single person, you know, as. As closely as you did in the beginning of the journey. But it's still. We have, you know, a lot of.

[A]

It's not. It's not that way anymore because we've grown and it's bigger and it's.

[B]

And it's also. We've learned from the lessons of it.

[A]

It's like, yeah, you can't be in everyone's personal story. And it's like, it's you. It's not smart.

[B]

Care for them.

[A]

You have to be careful. Yeah.

[B]

But is he still care and love for everyone, your employees, and give them great opportunities, create an amazing culture. And, you know, but that. It goes back to the. What we learned. Like, I came from corporate America, where there were so many audits and. And. And barriers that protected people kind of from themselves. Like, it was almost impossible to steal money from a corporation. I mean, you could. But with those things, again, it goes back to me not hiring people soon enough. Like, I didn't hire bookkeeper soon enough. I didn't hire outsourced people. And these are things where I was like, be willing to invest in the areas that actually matter more.

[A]

Like, we were afraid to spend more money.

[B]

Keep spending more. Keep spending more. Like, you realize, like, you got it.

[A]

You have to. And that was kind of. My whole point is, like, that part sticks out to me as, like, the hardest, heartbreaking, saddest part of the journey. But I would not change anything because we got so much smarter and became better, better business owners because of that. That.

[B]

I got a good question for you, though. Okay, I'm gonna pivot real quick.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

How do you deal with fear and doubt in business?

[A]

I really don't experience a lot of fear. Is that weird? I feel like I trust you. Like, if I say we're gonna do.

[B]

This, what about even in your business, you have fear and down in your. Because you're running your own business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you're.

[A]

I don't have a fearful job. I love my job. I really don't get fearful about that stuff, to be honest. I. Everything I do, if I don't want to do it, I guess they know it's not, like, a fear. It's. I'm not one of those people that has, like, fomo. I'm not trying to do something just to, like, keep up with people or, like, do it because someone else did it. Anything that falls into my lap or an email, I open it, and I know instantly if I want to do it or not. Well, I mean I prayed on whether if I'm going to do a show or not. And I finally was like, okay, I need to answer again. Third production company that fell into my email. I probably should give them, you know, give it a try and see how it ends up up. What is my biggest fear?

[B]

I feel like, no, how do you handle it? I guess you just said you don't you trust me, which is nice. I appreciate that.

[A]

I pray I'm just a person that like I'm not a fearful person. I'm a hover mom. So if I have any fear in my life it's like what if my kids ski off the side of a mountain like when we're skiing or like water parks with a toddler is terrifying to me cuz I'm a control freak. So I think, think only fear that sets it in my life has to do with kid stuff. That's it. Everything else, I mean I'm not gonna skydive. I want to put my feet on the ground and I'm not going in a submarine ever. I want to stay on the earth on the normal level. But other than that I'm not fearful. Like I'm. I, I think we do it. I always have. Like I feel like I've never been that person. I've only had one experience in my life where I feel like God, I, I audibly heard something in my brain. It has something to do with one of our kids. But that's the only time I've ever felt that. And so I always have been envious of like people who are like, God's spoken to me in this and that because I feel like I was a youth leader when I was in high school and like all these people would have all these stories and I was like, man, does God know I'm here to see up my number? Because I don't hear nothing and but what I do feel like is I feel like I just have a very a guttural feeling even navigating my job. If something is not right, I just freaking know. Like I get instantly, you know, I'm stubborn, I'm like, nope, not doing it right. And Michael be like, I don't understand this blood is great. I'm like, nope, I'm just telling you I don't feel right about it. I'm not doing it. And it comes even just down to like companies I'm partnering with. What I'm getting a discount code for like silly things. When I'm interviews, I'm going on what I'm doing on my show is it's that all that stuff, I have this guttural feeling and I do think it's God. So I feel like he's navigating me in a different way. He's got a hold of my gut. He's in my stomach.

[B]

I'm envious of it because. Can I tell you something?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I have constant fear and doubt.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't leave. You don't let it off.

[B]

I think it's very normal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To. To. Because it's about looking at the worst case of things and my brain looks at contingencies, is about saying that there's constant fear and doubt. It's there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I look at a healthy thing, as long as it's not unhealthy fear, but it's fear that is garnered in to the courage to move on, to be able to create action that actually mitigates the negative. Right. If you go in, I think, into business with naivety of like, no, this is going to succeed no matter what, I think it's that that's a good thing. But at certain times in life, there has to be a healthy responsibility saying, when is the time to leave, when's the time to exit, when's the time to do it? And I think those fears and doubts create guardrails to not make poor business decisions. But if you're doing. If your fear is holding you back from. From making decisions to move forward, like investing and taking a little bit of risk and going to leverage and working with banks, all those things are fearful. Like, it is fearful, Jen. Like the brewery. We took a big loan on this brewery.

[A]

But I trust you. If you weren't here, I wouldn't do the same.

[B]

Do you think there's not fear involved in that? Or like, doubt? Like, of course there totally. I have faith. And that's where it comes back to the standpoint of my faith. And again, trying to be courageous enough to move beyond that, like, is if I didn't believe in the plan, I wouldn't be doing it. But there's others always going to be. I think in any person's mind that is afraid to do business because you have some fear and doubt, it's very normal to have fear. No, I guess that's the point of it. So, yeah, I have. Despite the successes we're having a business, there's still always fear. There's still some fear and doubt, but you've got to move beyond it.

[A]

It. I totally get what you're saying. I think what's different is like, you are the one that's really head on facing like all these decisions as far as like, okay, we're gonna look at this building. I literally look to you with Armor Coffee and I say, do you think the building's good? Of course. I'll put in my two cents and I'll be like, no, this doesn't have a drive through. This looks like we're in a freaking desert. I don't know if this is the best spot, like little things like that. But overall, I mean, I'm running my business and doing the TV show and all that. I feel like with. I'm thinking of my job, which is I'm not fearful in my job. Now if we're going to go to just strictly the coffee shop business, we gotta specify what business we're talking about. I wouldn't do it without you. There's no way. It's way too much risk. I would be fearful and all over the place, but I'm not. So I have a partner, which is you. I think you're one of the smartest people, if not the smartest person I know. I don't understand why you can't close cabinets when you're done with them. Bewilders.

[B]

Why don't you look?

[A]

People are so smart you can't find ketchup.

[B]

People have invented so many amazing things. This world. Look, my, my fridge shuts itself. Why can't my cabinet shut themselves?

[A]

All I'm saying is you're very smart. I know. That's why I pick up after you and do the things. But so I trust you. I look to you and if you say it, I'm going to be like, okay, I'm good.

[B]

That means a lot. It means we didn't even get really into the brewery. I mean, that's.

[A]

Okay, well, let's talk about the brewery once the brewery is ready.

[B]

Well, it's coming.

[A]

It's coming. I think that's a great way actually to. Do you have another question?

[B]

No. Well, there's Jen. I have tons more questions, but we're going on 40 plus minutes here, so let's probably wrap this up and you want to ask any more questions?

[A]

Actually, I love this one. How did you market your business when it was brand new? Oh, Jen, we talked about on Instagram.

[B]

Yeah, we use. Look, I will say we do have a pretty awesome unfair advantage of having you as my partner, Jen and I appreciate that. It has been incredible.

[A]

Mike truly is ops to whereas I am like design and marketing and Kyler's and Melro. Ops and Kyler. Yeah, Mike and Kyler.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm brand development, you know, executive leadership, I guess. It is a team and look, marketing, marketing is something we need to work on and there's. I can tell you that that's one of the things we've talked. Jen and I've recently talked about the next spansion of like from the corporate team, like things we need to have. And I know, I know there's some roles that we need to bring on board and there's that, like that like. Okay, all right, well, time to invest in more people. And there's it.

[A]

We want a team of people who do marketing or creative and we can make fun little Facebook ads and like commercial type things.

[B]

It's just, it's just the design we need to design. We need like an in house person because I, and it is part of my, my brain. I constantly tinker with things and I gotta.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I need people that can work with me to be able to say, hey, let's do this and bring me things to like speed things up. But we started from marketing through, through social. Social only really straightly social. And truth is to this day it's mainly been social. I do some Google Ads and things like that, but only geotagged and real localized stuff. But as we expand, as the business.

[A]

Grows, getting on doordash was good.

[B]

Yeah, that was really good for a.

[A]

Business Mike's been great about. We're on favor, right? Or we were on favor.

[B]

Well, we, I mean doordash and favor. We're on all, we're on all of them now. But, but bringing in better technology, going in a better point of sale system which we use it like, like to be like order head apps and things like that. Really doing things to make your business, you know what people, you know, not, you know, trying to evolve beyond just the mom and pop, right. To become something that's scalable.

[A]

And I think you said it best and it's something that literally we're going through even right now. It's like you have to, if you can invest and throw down money to just go big at the very beginning, have your people in place, have your design, have your creative and we're kind of tinkering through that of like. Okay, are you. Hold on, let me finish my sentence before you get all booty puckered over there. It's not about literally just. It's not going down and throwing all your money. Right, I'll take that back. I'm Just saying, are there things that we could be paying a person right now to where Mike isn't tinkering without his computer in the day because he's stressed, because he has a ton of. Yes. The answer is yes.

[B]

That's fine. What? My, my. Look, if you're going to invest in your passion about something, there's nothing wrong with putting your life savings into it if it's reasonable. Right.

[A]

Be smart.

[B]

And you be smart. You got to be smart. You really gotta. That's right. And that's understanding the risks. There is a ton of risk in it. And working with partners and working with banks and working with other people can mitigate and lower your risk factor. Risk ratios down. And, and that, that's the hardest thing is, is like, when do you bring other people? And it's in. Every business is different, and we can only say from our business, but we have a lot going on. And I'm, I'm, I'm stoked for. Armor is going to be. Because, look, like I said, next three, next three years, we're gonna have multiple coffee shops, at least one brew pub, maybe two brew pubs. And I. And look, I'm telling you, I want to franchise this thing. Like, people are out there. I, I'm. We will be France, like five years.

[A]

Are we really putting this out there, Mike? You're putting it out there. You need to be on it. Yes, I know. We've talked about it. I know.

[B]

On my vision board.

[A]

Oh, we don't have vision board.

[B]

I actually do.

[A]

Oh, you do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I want to see it when we.

[B]

Get off here because it's called the vtr. It's called vision to reality board. Yeah. Created a whole, whole plan for it. One year, three year, ten year.

[A]

I know we've talked about it, but I've never seen this vision board that you think of. Okay.

[B]

It's a vtr. It's not just vision board. Vision two reality.

[A]

Got it. I'm so intrigued and I'm excited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I think we're good. That was a good. That was a really good combo. That was a ton.

[B]

Can I ask you one? I'm gonna ask you this question. I don't want you to ask me this.

[A]

Wait, you want me.

[B]

I want. I'm gonna ask you this question and I'm gonna. Then I'm gonna answer it too.

[A]

I want you to answer then. I want it. Okay, go ahead.

[B]

How do you define success?

[A]

Mine always. My mind instantly shoots to happy and I, I tread that lightly because then my mind goes to like, Society tells us, like, do. It feels good. You always need to be happy. And I don't believe within that. I don't believe, like, do good mentality. But success, I think of like, I'm a parent now, so I think of my kids and like, what does success look like? I think success is making enough money to where you can live and not have a ton of like undue stress about it. But ultimately they love what they're doing and so whatever they're doing brings them fulfillment and brings them joy, it brings them purpose and it makes them happy to where they can come home and have. Have functioning. A functioning marriage, be a good mom or a dad. I think ultimately success is being well rounded in just life and having happiness in everything you're doing. I think that's success. Is that cliche? No, that's what I feel like.

[B]

I mean, I mean, happiness can, you know, it's. It's a state of mind, right? It's a state of intention. I think you can choose.

[A]

You choose to be happy.

[B]

You have to choose, like sometimes, like, I don't want. You got to choose happy. I will answer this. So we had, I was very lucky, my last company, we had a lot of consultants came in and talked to us and we had Dr. Milt Lauder, who works with Clemson University. He's a sports psychologist. He has his own practice. And he had this one saying up about like success. And it was. And I won't forget, I can't forget it because it's, it's to me is really impactful. And I think it's how I would look at now success. Actually hearing this, I'm like, yeah, that is it. He said, success is a. Is pursuing a goal worthy of your time. The pursuit of a goal worthy of your time.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

Because your time and another person, another professor one time says, like, whatever you're spending the time in that moment, at that. At that moment, that's the most important thing in your life.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, if you're at time at work, technically you're choosing work over your time. Totally. Yeah. Whatever you are spending in that moment is the most important thing. But you're prioritizing the goal. It's pursuit of a goal worthy of your time. And that's defined by you more than anything. Right? Like you, you have to pursue that in this.

[A]

And to us, what if someone's pursuing something that they'll never like, be successful at?

[B]

That's still success, Jen. Because success is a journey, right? I don't think there's one thing. I think there's business people, they're looking like they sold this company, made a billion dollars. Cool. What then, Right. Like I. Right. But then what Are you done? You retired? There's nothing wrong with that. But that's why a lot of billionaires become philanthropists. They end up doing things because you're like, what am I going to do with all this?

[A]

You're bored.

[B]

Yeah, I'm bored now. And that happens with people who sell businesses all the time. We know people that are, like, very wealthy and they're like some most bored of my life. Right. And it's.

[A]

It's funny when. Oh, that's when bad things can happen and can creep in. For sure.

[B]

For sure. But. Yeah, but it's about being. Yeah. And I'm saying, like, you know, money isn't successful. It's. It. It's an indicator says that everyone needs enough money to survive. Right, right. And, you know, there's, There's. There's a study that was done by Harvard about, like, longitudinal happiness. And what's great is it's not. It was never money. Money was never a thing. You have to have enough money to, like, survive. And I think it was like, equivalent, like, more than. I think. I don't know the numbers, like $80,000 a year or something. Like, for family, you can be happy. It was something like. It wasn't in this insane number with, like, millions of dollars, but it was the thing that had the lat the most happiness was deep connections with other individuals. They actually had the most longitudinal happiness in it. So creating great connections, but then having a goal. Pursue a goal worthy of your time, find that goal, whether it's being an entrepreneur, it's being a mom, or it's being a dad, whatever that goal is that you focus on if it's worthy your time, and you're focused on it. It's pursuit of that goal. What is that goal? Right. Yeah.

[A]

I love that you just made that poster board. A really long story that you remember.

[B]

Wasn'T a poster board. It was a slide.

[A]

Oh, a slide. A slide and a presentation. That professor had no idea that this was going to be podcasted decades later.

[B]

Sports psychologist, so. Oh, okay.

[A]

Hilarious.

[B]

But it was good. I mean, look, that's how I look at it. And I, I would, I would fully, you know, subscribe to that personally.

[A]

I agree. Well, thank you guys so much for listening.

[B]

My goal is to some someday be finished with this podcast because we're almost like.

[A]

Are you interrupting?

[B]

I'm Just joking. That's. It's a long one.

[A]

I think it was a good.

[B]

It's a great. This is a long one.

[A]

They don't have to listen if they don't want to listen. I think there's a lot of good life stuff in there.

[B]

Look, I think we could do an entire series. Like really there there.

[A]

You could dig into stories even like. Yeah, stories of it.

[B]

This could be a multi episode one. And I know we didn't tackle probably nearly amount of questions that people have, but.

[A]

No, we didn't. But. So season two, we're going to be doing our finale. We're going to be skipping Thanksgiving week and then our finale will come out the next week. Y and then season two, we want to get more into interviews. So I think that's a great place where we do another business episode where we bring someone in and we can talk. Talk about if. If people want to hear that, you guys let us know and we can talk about that kind of stuff. Thank you guys.

[B]

We like to talk.

[A]

That's why we made a podcast.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you have an amazing week as always. Thank you for tuning in. Yeah, we appreciate it.

[B]

Thanks for letting me probably talk more than I needed to today, Jen, but I appreciate it.

[A]

No, this is like. This is what you geek out on. This is like your moment.

[B]

I love you.

[A]

Yeah, I love you too.

[B]

I was talking to the audience.

[A]

All right, I'm done. I'm getting off. I'm going to bed. It's. I hope you guys have a great week. Thank you so much for listening. And we will be playing your voice memos for our finale episode. So again, not next week, we're gonna pause because we want you guys to view a family. Enjoy the turkey, all the food. Unzip your pants. We want you to be so full. You gotta unzip them pants. Okay. For Thanksgiving.

[B]

What?

[A]

You get so full on Thanksgiving, you ends up your pants.

[B]

Okay. What?

[A]

You don't do that. I did. I thought I did. Did I mad?

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Yes, I did, you weirdo over there. And then we will be back for the week of the finale. I'm really excited to play Yalls questions and Mike and I will react to you. You will be part of the podcast.

[B]

Yeah, let's make it. We need to bring. We need some jokes. We need. Let's. We're doing a bonus one next Monday. We're gonna be a lot of time to that. No, we're not.

[A]

I don't know. I'm not committing. I'm not committing to that. We'll see. We'll see how life goes. I committed to really strong in the beginning and then life.

[B]

Well, if not, then Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

[A]

Yes, for sure. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. And we will be back the week after with our finale episode. Bye guys.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

You, me and Mike is a production of the Rambling Redhead from thirteen Media.

[B]

Subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever podcasts are available. While you're at it, leave us a five star rating.

[A]

While you're there, have an idea for a topic you'd like us to discuss. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or send us a message on Instagram. We would love to share your idea on the show. For a daily dose of our crazy lives, follow us on Instagram, he Rambling Redhead and Ike Todrick and catch no Dimoreno on hgtv.