Ep. 205: We Have Friends

Summary

Podcast Summary

You, Me & Mike – Ep. 205: We Have Friends

Hosts: Jenn and Mike Todryk
Date: September 24, 2025
Main Theme:
Navigating adult friendships and extended family relationships as a married couple with children. Jenn and Mike discuss how friendships evolve throughout life stages, maintaining connections amid busy schedules, the differences in men’s and women’s friendships, and the challenges of balancing family, marriage, and social connections.

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on two major listener-requested topics:

• How to maintain adult friendships outside of marriage and parenthood
• Navigating relationships with extended family, including holidays and frequency of visits

The conversation is honest, relatable, and peppered with humor and personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins of Jenn’s “Good Morning” Catchphrase

• [00:12] Jenn shares the organic evolution behind her signature “Good morning, good morning” greeting.
  • “I genuinely didn’t know that I did it. I didn’t realize it was a thing until when I didn’t say it, people would be like, you better tell me good morning, good morning two times.” – Jenn
• [01:01] Mike jokes about Jenn being like a news anchor: “Good morning, Jennifer Todryk here.”

Listener Questions: Adult Friendships & Extended Family

• [01:19] Jenn explains that the episode was prompted by Instagram audience questions about how they keep friendships and manage extended family relationships.
• [02:27] Main topics for the episode:
  1. Maintaining adult friendships outside of marriage and parenthood
  2. Managing relationships with extended family (frequency of visits, splitting holidays, etc.)

Evolution of Friendships Over Life Phases

• [03:14] Jenn reflects on how adult friendships differ from what she witnessed in her parents’ lives.
• [04:19] Mike discusses expectations:
  • “If you expect relationships—friendships—to be the same as they were in a life phase before you were … our friendships now look a lot different than our friendships pre-kids. Which look different than when we were single.” – Mike
• [05:20] Both agree friendship expectations must adjust with life phases; texting is often the main way to keep in touch now.

Proximity and Parenting Affect Friendships

• [06:04] Jenn notes that proximity, like who you see at school pickups, often shapes current friendships, even if those are newer connections.

Changing Needs and Expectations in Friendship

• [07:09] Mike shares how friendships evolve across adolescence, college, and adulthood, especially as time becomes scarce.
  • “That ability to just pick up and go hang out and grab a beer or something like that—that’s gone. That ship has sailed.” – Mike [07:41]
• They discuss how their kids’ friends’ parents have become core parts of their own social circles.
• Importance of having friendships outside marriage for unique perspectives and support.

Gender Differences in Friendship

• [08:49–10:51] Jenn asks if women’s friendships are deeper because women share more; Mike responds that depth vs. breadth depends on personality and social conditioning.
  • “For me, a lot of my relationship with my male friends... it’s going to hang out to have keep things surface level... sometimes you just want to go out and relax and laugh and hang out. And that in itself is a form of therapy.” – Mike [09:54]
  • Social stigma around men sharing deeply discussed, including impact on men’s mental health.

The Role of Trust in Friendship

• [11:21] Mike: “Real friendships is a basis of trust. Just like a relationship with a spouse is.”
• [12:25] Jenn: “Are you being a good friend to other people?”
• [12:34] They recount how they teach their kids to make friends: start with kindness, compliments, and commonalities.

Vulnerability, Hurt, and Guardedness in Friendship

• [15:11] Discussion on the tendency for men and women to project having it all together, and the reluctance to be vulnerable.
• [17:47–19:39] Jenn admits to sometimes being “too quick to trust,” which has backfired; Mike points out everyone struggles with surface-level or broken friendships.
• [20:18] “If you find yourself being guarded with everyone... I think that’s something really deep... talk to a therapist...” – Jenn

Interconnectedness of Marriage, Self-Confidence, and Friendships

• [23:26] Jenn suggests issues in marriage or low self-confidence can spill into one’s friendships.
• [24:45] Mike and Jenn agree that spouses are the top priority but friendships provide vital outside perspective/support.
• [28:00] “If you’re expecting me to be the only person to fulfill every one of your needs, I think that’s an inappropriate expectation.” – Mike

The Power and Influence of Friends

• [29:25–31:31] Jenn discusses the importance of choosing friends wisely, especially when seeking advice during marital challenges.
  • “My best friends know that I will always support... but I will also say, have you tried X, Y or Z before?” – Jenn [29:47]
• [32:05] Mike quotes his dad: “Show me your friends and I’ll show you who you are.”

Real Friendship vs. Hype Friends

• [33:04] Mike: “Real relationships tell each other the truth. You don’t tell the other person just what you want to hear.”
• [33:50] “Friends celebrate friends’ wins. Friends encourage their friends.” – Mike

Jealousy and Self-Development

• [34:10] Jenn discusses how jealousy or feeling “left behind” can affect friendship dynamics, especially if one feels unfulfilled.
• [35:42] She notes that conflicts among women often arise from “pretty stupid, catty things” and credits men with better grace and ability to forgive and move on.

Conflict and Growth in Marriage (Connection to Friendship)

• [40:27–48:26] Relates their own marital arguments and how communication styles, time to process, and learning to fight productively have paralleled growth in friendship dynamics.
  • “Fighting isn’t about winning. If you come in a position where I’m going to win, you will always lose in the long run.” – Mike [45:26]
• Jenn shares learning to let Mike have space in arguments led to better understanding (and this lesson applies to friendships, too).

Longevity and Maintenance of Adult Friendships

• [51:48] Jenn and Mike share that their method for maintaining lasting friendships is lower expectations, rare but meaningful group trips, and being present when needed.
  • “We don’t do like weekly or even monthly date nights together. We don’t. But every once in a while, we’ll do a double date or a group date.” – Jenn [51:48]
  • Annual group trips: “Every year all getting together in that capacity and being together six whole days... it feeds it enough to keep those relationships that already have 15 years down, you know, in history.” [52:20]

Proximity and Phase of Life

• [53:00] Both admit that sharing a life phase and proximity make friendship easier.
• [54:11] Mike remembers weekly dinners with his parent’s friends as a positive tradition.

Social Media and Connection

• [55:12] Despite being the “most connected ever” technologically, the hosts argue we’re more disconnected than ever from real, in-person relationships.

Parenting and Teaching Friendship Skills

• [56:50] They plan to discuss helping kids navigate social relationships in the digital age on a future episode.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:41] “That ability to just pick up and go hang out and grab a beer... that’s gone. That ship has sailed.” – Mike
• [20:18] “If you find yourself being guarded with everyone... I think that’s something really deep and I think you need to go talk to someone, a therapist.” – Jenn
• [29:47] “My best friends know that I will always support... but I will also say, have you tried X, Y or Z before?” – Jenn
• [32:05] “Show me your friends and I’ll show you who you are.” – Mike Sr. (Mike quoting his dad)
• [33:04] “Real relationships tell each other the truth. You don’t tell the other person just what you want to hear, as you said, because that’s a hype man. Hype mans are fun. You want those people in your life. Right?” – Mike
• [45:26] “Fighting isn’t about winning. If you come into a mindset of I’m going to win, you will always lose in the long run.” – Mike
• [53:00] “It’s easier to have people that are in the same phase of life... It sounds bad, but it’s true.” – Mike
• [58:37] “If a friend calls is a need. We drop what we’re doing and we will be there. And I hope all of our friends feel that way about us. But we’re also very busy, just like they are.” – Jenn

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Tips and Insights for Maintaining Adult Friendships

• Adjust expectations for friendships as life changes
• Texting and short interactions often replace longer hangouts
• Proximity and shared phase of life make maintenance easier
• Choose friends who challenge, support, and tell the truth—not just those who “hype”
• Celebrate friends’ victories instead of feeling threatened
• Be cautious about jealousy—it often signals needs for personal fulfillment
• Prioritize spouse/family but recognize the unique perspective and support from friends
• Lower expectations to accept what friends can give and appreciate them for that
• Surface-level interaction is OK; deep trust and vulnerability may only come with time

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:12] – Jenn’s “Good morning” catchphrase origin story
• [01:19] – Introduction of episode topics from audience input
• [03:14] – Reflections on childhood vs. adult friendships
• [08:49] – Gender differences in friendship styles/depth
• [15:11] – Hesitancy to be vulnerable and societal masks
• [17:47] – Being too quick to trust and friendship heartbreak
• [24:45] – Prioritizing marriage vs. friendship
• [28:00] – Why spouses can’t be your only support system
• [29:25] – Choosing wise friends for crucial advice
• [32:05] – “Show me your friends and I’ll show you who you are."
• [33:04] – Real friends tell the truth
• [40:27] – How marriage arguments can parallel friendship growth/conflict
• [51:48] – How Jenn and Mike maintain adult friendships
• [53:00] – Proximity and phase of life as factors
• [55:12] – Social media’s effect on real friendships
• [58:37] – Friendship priorities and managing expectations

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Tone and Language

The episode is lighthearted, honest, and filled with personal anecdotes, jokes, and real talk. Jenn and Mike banter naturally, occasionally argue and retract, and often poke gentle fun at each other and themselves. They are candid about their struggles, growth, and personal biases, providing a relatable look into the everyday challenges of adulthood, marriage, and friendships.

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Closing Thoughts

Jenn and Mike underscore the value of adult friendships, admit how their friendship maintenance style has changed as life got busier, and stress that being a good friend means showing up, offering truth—not just hype—and accepting the ebbs and flows of connection. Next week, they plan to address extended family relationships in more detail.

Transcript

[A]

Is my zit hidden by the microphone? What are you talking about?

[B]

Is that Dougie? Is that. Is that little Dougie on your face?

[A]

Doug won't go away. He's here forever. Good morning.

[B]

Morning.

[A]

How are you?

[B]

It's almost afternoon.

[A]

It is almost afternoon, but I say good morning. Even if it's 10pm, you actually say, good morning. I say, good morning, good morning in the afternoon. That's because. But I do it. The thing is, it's not just something I do in, like, on socials. I do it walking in here. I walked in here, like 3pm One day. I was like, good morning. They're like, it's kind of. Kind of afternoon. I was like, well, I say good morning all the time.

[B]

So where did the good morning, good morning come from? What's the genesis of your sing song? I intro.

[A]

I just said it. I genuinely didn't know that I did it. I didn't realize it was a thing until when I didn't say it, People would be like, you better tell me good morning, Good morning two times. And it became like a joke.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it stuck. But if I go Back to like 2018, I say, good morning. Good morning.

[B]

You have been.

[A]

And I didn't.

[B]

It's actually good morning, Good morning, morning, Good morning.

[A]

But I. I don't sing it as much anymore now. It's sometimes like, good morning, good morning. Like, if I need to get.

[B]

I don't know, it's like a news anchor. Good morning, good morning. Jennifer Todrick here.

[A]

Good morning. Jennifer Todrick here. Yeah, I. I would love to be like, yeah, I totally made it, like, my thing. I just.

[B]

As riveting as your Good morning Genesis story is, let's. Let's transition to what we're talking about today. What are we doing?

[A]

So today I dug into topics that were requested by people on my Instagram. If you don't know who I am on Instagram, my profile is the rambling redhead. And over there, they kind of get dib on, like, first, you know, opinions, and I ask them questions. And so I base a lot of stuff we talk about from that community over there. You know, in my head, I still think that they're the ones that are coming over and listening the most. Of course we pick up people organically. And if that's you, I'm so happy that you found us. And thank you for watching.

[B]

Welcome to the podcast. You, me, and Mike.

[A]

But the Instagram people get definitely first say on everything, so I asked them. And some topics, two topics that came up and I think they. They flow together really well. Are people want us to talk about maintaining adult friendships outside of marriage and being a parent and what does that look like for us? And also extended family relationships. So, like, how often do we see extended family? How do you split up holidays? And all of those questions were mentioned. Those two questions were mentioned several times. Just worded differently.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And so I think this is a great. I think this episode will be about those. Specifically those relationships. So outside of marriage.

[B]

Well, all right. Yeah, I think those are good. I think those are great topics. I mean, we have extended family and we have friends. So we're experts.

[A]

We're experts in this topic. It's wild. I honestly wouldn't have thought.

[B]

I've had friends for pretty much my entire life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How about you?

[A]

I have also had friends for a good amount of time. So, I mean, I guess. And we're experts on that.

[B]

We're married and we're also friends, too. So this is, again, Amber. Family. Look at us.

[A]

I don't know if I would have come on here and think, let's talk about us having friends. It's like a topic that would be interesting.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

I don't know. Like, hey, we're gonna talk about our friends right now. I don't know. I just didn't think.

[B]

We're not talking about our friends.

[A]

No, you're right. I guess I. I don't think keeping friends and friendships alive is not something that I actually give a lot of energy to as far as, like, thinking about. And so it is interesting. And now that I kind of, like, reflect back on, even, like, looking back at my childhood and my parents and their friendships, I. Ours does look very different than, like, what my parent. When I remember as a child seeing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With my parents, for sure. And obviously there's different. Different reasons for that. Like, my dad worked a ton and my mom stayed home with us. So, like, there's different things that affect that. But anyways, it is every. I guess it probably look different for people.

[B]

Maybe it does. There's also what you see as a child isn't always exactly what is reality. Right. I mean, like, you don't know what your. Every relationship your parent has at work or outside the home that's, you know, that is important to them. Like, your dad's a cop, and so he probably had a ton of buddies at. At work. At work as well. But, like, one of the things is, is I think if you expect relationships, to me at least friendships to be the same as they Were in a life phase before you were.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Our friendships now look a lot different than our friendships were pre kids.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Which even look different than when we were single. Right. It looked different than when we were in college or different than we were in high school and we're in middle school.

[A]

I think you're right. Every season looks different.

[B]

Yeah. The. But the need for friendships I think is still super important. I think that's the one aspect of you and I. We have a lot of look at you promoting Armor Coffee.

[A]

This podcast is sponsored by Armor Coffee located in Allen, Texas. And Wiley and Wiley and online and online at ShopArmor.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

Stop. Armor Coffee.

[B]

Yes. It's actually armor coffee.com.

[A]

Armor coffee.com. thank you.

[B]

No, it's just armor coffee.com shop.

[A]

Armor.

[B]

No, not shop.

[A]

That's the worst ever.

[B]

Maybe just take that out. No. Armorgolfa.com. regardless of what you're saying, man, you interrupted me. It's like my favorite thing to look at was you and that coffee cup. Wow, it's. That's a hot.

[A]

I think you're right. I think relationships look very different given what season you're in. And I think there's probably also a level of maturity that comes with like relationships we're in now versus, like, come on, think about our friendships in like high school and college. So I think friendships right now in our phase with like younger middle kids, your expectations that you have to have on your friends have to be of part pretty stinking low in my. I guess to be my friend, like we have to be able to text. Has to be able to carry like texting back and forth has to be able to carry more than like me calling you every single week. I don't, I don't have time to do that. I think friends also, correct me if I'm wrong, like proximity right now because our schedule is so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you're naturally who you see at school pickup. Who you see at school functions. Like, obviously those friendships that might not be a 15 year friendship maybe feel. I don't want to say comfortable, but like they grow quicker. Right. Because you're touching base constantly. Like talking at school pickup. So how do we want to dive? How do we want to structure?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I guess if you go back to, to me where the friendship evolution. Let's go back to that. I think it's a, it's a, it's a direct relationship to the amount of time that you have outside of like whatever your family are like. So as a kid you have your immediate family and then you have all this time in the world. And as you get, you know, like family is everything until it's not. You know, as the kids get older and into the teenage years, friendships come infinitely more important than they were. In fact, sometimes they do.

[A]

It's never going to happen to our children.

[B]

Yeah. They're always says every. Since every parent who's going, shut up.

[A]

What are you saying?

[B]

But they. But that, But I think that's important. That's a natural evolution of how people and humans are developed. Your friendships start to guide you.

[A]

And also how important their friendships are for kids.

[B]

Sure. And how much they influence each other and how much it develops them. And so as teenager is important. And then college happens and then your friendships evolve into a little bit more adult like. And then as you become adults, your time with work and other things go down. So then you're. It just changes. Right now, what you said about expectations, I don't think it's like not being a friend, but if you don't, if you have expectations, if you have. And again, this is, you know, I have. I have some single friends and that's awesome. But they also have to have a healthy understanding that, like, time is very limited.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Doesn't mean that there's not care and concern. And hey, if you really are in dire need, I'll be there. But like that ability to just pick up and go hang out and grab a beer or something like that, that's gone. That ship has sailed. But to the point of proximity aspect of. It's like, it's a lot easier to hang out with friends. At least in our situation, our kids, friends, parents. Has become a important component of our. Of our life. And likewise, fortunately, we had a friend group prior that all has kids the same age as well. So there's been a natural integration of those people into it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that importance of it isn't gone. Hasn't gone away from being a child to teenage to young adult to adult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because perspectives to me, like, you get perspectives on life that I can't give you from your female friend group.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Right. I can't. I don't have that perspective.

[A]

And I. Yeah.

[B]

And I think it's important to have those things.

[A]

Yeah. Well, okay. I was gonna save this for down this road here that we're on later, but it's like kind of a good transition. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not wrong. So you're not gonna correct me.

[B]

You cannot correct me on this one.

[A]

But I feel like. Do you feel like. Because women get. Not every woman, but I feel like everyone that I most that I know will get very deep and share like, not like, I don't want you to say like intimate details, but like whatever they're comfortable sharing. Women will naturally get deeper and share more details. So in men typically don't. So would you say that women friendships are deeper than men's Because, I mean, technically they know a lot. My close, very small group of close friends that I can count on a hand, like my best friends know a ton about me. Arguably more than your best friends know about you. Why, why do you think that is? Or do you disagree?

[B]

Again, I think comes down to perspective and also the individual. Some people need more than other people or have expectations that are more so, like, you're right. I mean, it's, it's wild. I think you, you know, the amount of details you' friends know about me is crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm saying, I don't say that in a negative way where it's like, it's. But yeah, there's. I think, I think the narrow and deep approach to women is like less. You have less, but you go deeper with a lot of your friends. Right. The ones that are really close to you. Does apply to men as well. But for me, a lot of my relationship with my male friends, my buddies, it's going to hang out to have keep things service level because there's always like a lot of crap you deal with and sometimes you just want to go out and relax and laugh and hang out. And that in itself is a form of therapy. And it's in this thing where it's like, I want to be around people that make me smile and make me laugh. And sometimes going deep isn't always what you want, but there's a time and place for it. Where I think male relationships. There are two individuals that I have that I can. I could go too deep with if I wanted to. And I guess maybe that's the guard. I don't know if it's guardedness or the.

[A]

Is it uncomfortable sometimes?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, maybe it's the, the social upbringing that you come in or the family things like how deep do you want to go with people? And you know, locker room talk. That's the only thing. Oh gosh, talk about that stuff. It's usually all done in just in surface level. It's not like, hey man, I'm really struggling with this. That's. That's not a normal thing that guys are taught. But they should have those relationships. And that's where you have to have somebody really trusted that's grounded in faith. In my opinion, that has things that you can go to, you can grow and sometimes that has a basis of like maturity and understanding. Those are the things that you want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You should have. They have somebody that's going to give you solid advice instead of selfish advice.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you want buddies that have your back just like you want women that are gonna have your back. Right. But they also need to give you grounded advice that it's like, okay, they can challenge you in a way that may help you think a little bit more well rounded. Because we can be myopic in our. Yeah, whatever. Maybe again, it's not just struggles. Right. Because real good friendship is there. It shouldn't always be like, my only good friends are the ones that are. That we're gonna really go deep with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's, I mean, if you, if you had a friend, I'm not saying this is anything but. How would you feel if the friend only brought you negative stuff?

[A]

Well, negative against me or just negative feeling in there Always.

[B]

Yeah. If that person's only coming to you.

[A]

With like hardship, it's. It'll get maybe depressing or you become. You feel like you're now a therapist that you didn't ask to be.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah, I could see that.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm not saying that that's the thing, but that's the friends is like as simple as this. Be the friend that you want other friends to be to you. So you know the golden rule, Treat others where you want to be treated. Right. So if you are like, if you're a person that struggles or friendship, are you being a good friend to other people? Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you putting yourself out there? Are you. You know, we taught, you know, Berkeley. What you know, it's funny is how amazing that girl is as far as how she makes friends. What does she do? You taught her this.

[A]

Just really nice.

[B]

Yeah, but how does she make a. How does she make a friend?

[A]

She goes up and says something to.

[B]

Them, makes it finds a common connection. I really like your shoes.

[A]

Oh, why she compliments. Yeah, I like your shoes.

[B]

Yeah. And the next thing you know, they're.

[A]

Talking because it knocks down instantly everyone's wall. When they get a compliment you instantly.

[B]

They all thank you.

[A]

No, if you. Someone gives you. Comes up to you that you've never spoken to with a smile on their face and says, I really love your shoes or earrings, and you instantly put something negative on that. Like, something's wrong with you. Like, you're. That's weird to me. So it instantly knocks down that wall of, like, this person. Well, that was nice. Like, it should shock you maybe a little bit in this day and age. Like, it is, you know, when people are more facing the phone, and then maybe they're not coming at you with a random compliment, speaking to you. But if it is negative to you, I hope I never meet you, because it scares me. And so most people would be like, that's nice. So, yeah, compliment.

[B]

I don't think any. But I don't think that. I mean, that's. You start that as a kid, but as an adult, like, you just said the same thing. It's like, I've made friendships in the gym just be like. And I've literally been like, those are cool shoes. Where'd you get those from? You have a conversation or like, you love your car. Like, you start chatting. Next thing you know, you're having a cold conversation.

[A]

Say that.

[B]

But it's. But there are things like. Because it's like, you want to know. Or a guy will, you know, say something to say, you know, they'll ask. Next thing you know, you're having a conversation. You see the guy at the gym the next time, hey, what's up, man? And, yeah, before you know it, you're actually, like, hanging out. Like, literally has happened before. Right. So it's. It's one of those ones where that. That's the natural progression of how friendships are. They're not forced, they become part of your life, and then, you know, you're finding commonalities into it. But the thing is, is if friendship. You struggle with friendships. That's thing. It's. It's like, it's. Are you putting yourself out there?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And at the same time, in the proximity of your life, are there people that you can feel to support you? And sometimes starting with surface level is the only place to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Again from a man. So going back to your question, do I think women's relationship are deeper? I do not. I do think that there are a lot of men out there that unfortunately put themselves in a place where they feel like they can't go deep with certain people because of whether it's fear or it's weakness or it's just, you know, stigma, quiet desperation of like, I, you know, I don't know who to talk about this thing. Like, mental health is a huge issue with a lot of men, especially in their 40s, that struggle with it, you know, I mean, truly, the suicide rate in men in their 40s and 50s is insane. And it's. And it's. I think it's because people struggle with, where do they go? Where did they get advice? Who are they going to talk about this quiet desperation that may occur. And you got to have good friends that are grounded, that can support you. And it's like church or, you know, or work. There's somebody that's like our mentorship or all those things that are really important.

[A]

Well, it's so funny because I feel like women and men both do this. They both tried. Well, not everyone, but a lot of people, they fall into this of trying to look like they have it all together, to try to peacock an image or, like, give off a Persona that they think is fooling everyone. And where women might do this with faked happiness or how they look, dress labels and what they own or maybe their wealth or success, whatever. I feel like men, a lot of men, I feel like it could be kind of the same with, like, guarding feelings and looking like everything's okay. It's like a different form. Sure. It's not giving off wealth or whatever, but in a way, if men seem like everything's good and stable, then they're strong. Maybe there's strength in that. I don't know. Maybe. Whereas women, we. I mean, I'm sure there's some. And if, like, we really wanted to, like, tackle down even, like myself from a therapist, I even have a little bit of, like, I'm not gonna sit here and cry to you about my issues, because that's a waste of time. And if I really want to put a work, a word to that, like, I'm stronger than that. Right. I'm even guilty of kind of having that. Not when it's real big things. I think that's very important to express it. But I'm just saying, like, even I have, like, little nuggets of that where maybe I was taught to. You're bigger than this, essentially. But I think it's more fluent or more prevalent in men versus women are like, I need. I'm done. I'm mad. I. Like our emotions will drive us more quicker to talk about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And I mean, I. This. I think real friendships is a basis of trust. Right. And a mutual trust. Just like a relationship with a spouse is. Right. Different and important. You know, I, I. You know, one of the things that you said before, if you call me your best friend and I vice versa, and it's. It's that's one thing that we have really in common is that it's like the friendship part of our relationship is really, really important because that's the part of trust. It's not just this, this you know, agape love. There's also this connection of love and happiness and all these things that we have each other that's strengthened even more by obviously our marriage relationship. But friendships have to have trust. And I think there are people out there that have had broken relationships. Broken trust and coming back from that and creating guards are really real. There's a lot of people that struggle with guarded relationships. And I think that almost everyone, you and me included, have had friendships past. Like gosh, that sucks. Right? How do you, what did you. I mean how do you, have you ever struggled with that? With just being guarded in relationships? Friendships?

[A]

Yeah, no, I do the opposite. I don't. I'm not super. I mean I'm social, I give off, I'm very. So I'm an introverted extrovert, you know, or extroverted introvert. So like when I'm out, I'm on. I'm extroverted, I'm comfortable, I'm truly confident talking to people. But I would rather be at home by myself if I had the option. But I know I struggle with instantly taking people for face value, trusting them very quickly, thinking they're my friend and then I tell them every single thought I ever had and then that backfires. If that person, if that woman seems to be struggle with like insecurities, maybe I say something and it's off putting to them and they can't handle that or they misinterpret that. That could be hard. I do things where I get myself there. I'm like, no, we're best friends and I trust them because they act nice to me when no actually are very two faced. And I read that completely wrong and I'm dense. I used to, you know, I've gotten in trouble with that before where I'm like, why would I'm blindsided. Like where did that come from? Why would they say that? Or I found myself more there than being.

[B]

Yeah, so the point. Yeah, of course. And, and I think every person's experienced a relationship that's unfortunately too surface level and it's like, hey, you know, you know the difference between acquaintances treat everyone kindness and have fun. And I like, you know, you know, I'll, you know, kind of like a golden retriever. And you are in the same way as well talk to anyone, have a conversation like hey, like. Like, I really generally like talking to people. And, you know, as far as, like, what you shared, if it gets misconstrued. Yeah. That's not real friendship, of course. Right. But does that. Does that impact your ability to get deeper with other people, or is that just like. That's the question I'm asking you. Because I think there are people out there that struggle with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With. With lack of trust because of broken relationships.

[A]

Right. I mean, if you think about it, if we're really gonna get, like, deep into it, if you're a woman, I can speak to women. Because while I'm not every woman, I am a woman. So it puts me more as an expert.

[B]

You're an expert. You are a woman. You're.

[A]

I think if you find yourself being guarded with everyone and you can't even name a best friend, that you think about sharing a topic of marriage or intimacy or anything like that, and it's. You're like, I could never. I think that's something really deep. And I think you need to go talk to a Someone, a therapist, someone who has actually.

[B]

An actual expert.

[A]

An actual expert. Because to not open up to a single person is like, you're literally hiding your true self from the world, everyone. Which means maybe you're not secure in what you are feeling as yourself, which that's an issue. And so I think someone who's.

[B]

Well, you've been so hurt that you just. The walls are there that you just don't know how to reopen those things.

[A]

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[B]

Well, you're talking about married women, but there, I mean.

[A]

Correct. I'm talking about just married women. I'm talking about like yes, people in my phase of life, married with children. Yeah, I think, I think it also we do this as people, we evolve and like you're this out maybe in high school, you're shy, then you get into college and you find your stride and you're super popular and you're on a peak and you're social and you're out at parties and you look like you're the it girl and then you get married and then maybe when you have, you know, you're been married For a while and you have kids and then you're like, wait, I'm not as fun or, like, as peppy as I. You know what I mean? Like, you do this. And I think it really. I don't know, I think friendships can be really hard if you're not happy in other places of your life. I think relationships are very intertwined. Not all the time, but I think they can be. Think about it, like, even if you have friend problems one on one, I can't really, like, think of one off the top of my head. But when you have, like a relationship that's hard, it could even affect your marriage because you come home pissed and you're talking about it. They're all. They're all healthy. Communication with adults, friends, marriage, co workers, they're all intertwined in a way.

[B]

Yeah, I. Yeah. My perspective of my current phase of life with my friends, I love them. They're great people. They're not my family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And often their struggles I don't put upon my own myself. Right. Like, if somebody asked me to be there for them and they need help, of course I'm gonna do that. Right. Like, you've been. I'm like, hey, I gotta go, you know, go talk to this person. You know, like, I've done that with you in our. Well, we've been married. But at the same time, it's. It's a. It's a different circumstance if somebody, if, you know, if a friend makes bad decisions or does something I don't agree with, it's, you know, it's. That's. It's not.

[A]

You come home and you think about home.

[B]

I mean. Yeah.

[A]

A little different.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, we're empaths. I think about my family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And again, from a prioritization standpoint of where. Where I look at things as, you know, relationship with. With God, my relationship with my family or you, and then my kids and then my friends. Right, right. And that comes in that order. And it's just if. If I am prioritizing my friends personally over my family, I won't do that.

[A]

No.

[B]

That's my. And again, there are people that might have a different opinion on that one, but I think that there are people that over prioritize friendships at the wrong phase of life. And I do. There are probably people out there that like, hey, I gotta go. You know, I gotta get my one week. One. One week of guys night in or I'm just gonna be burnt out. And that's not what. And that's actually okay. If that's the relationship, your spouse is like, hey, yeah, you need that, I want you to have that.

[A]

Well, I would, I would say, okay, then. Are you doing a date night also?

[B]

Correct. Yeah, that's, that's the thing is as far as the balance that you have to have, and as in a married. And we're speaking as a married thing, a single's a little bit different. Right, let's. But we'll talk about the phase we're in right now. For me, it's like I do once a year, I go on a trip with guys. I do a guys weekend with a couple buddies in mind. We watch, you know, football. And that's just what we do. That's. That's our, our one weekend year. Right. This weekend. That's one week in a year that we do that. That's my guy's trip.

[A]

And I love that. You do.

[B]

And I'm fulfilled by that. Yes, that's. And there are other people that need more and that's. That might be what their cup gets filled with as well. As long as the spouse. As we talked about the dance before, that you have an agreement that you're moving in conjunction and that prioritization of time doesn't seem disproportionate to that other person. That a person feels deprioritized over the friend group. I personally think that's a problem. Yeah, I wouldn't feel right about that if you were to like, hey, you know what? Every single night you're like, I'm gonna go hang out with the girls. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna talk to this person. I'm wanting to chat with you, and you're on the phone with them or you're texting. It would be, it would be imbalanced. Right. And again, that's important relationships. But from a prioritization standpoint, the way I look at is it's again, to God, you kids friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it works in there as well. Obviously, there's all that's important. But.

[A]

But well, well, one, I guess where we can kind of go a little more deeper into a specific angle here is what would we say, because this was another aspect to this that was mentioned. What would we say for people who want to maintain adult relationships? It's just not happening. Like a term throws me off the adult relationships.

[B]

It sounds.

[A]

That does not sound sexual.

[B]

It does.

[A]

Adult relationships. I didn't say relations.

[B]

I know, but it's.

[A]

Relationships aren't just marriage.

[B]

I know, but that term, like, it's out there.

[A]

Boss and employer relationships.

[B]

I know, I don't know what my mind thinks it. But if you say that I'm like, maybe it's because you, like, maybe you're.

[A]

A big old pervert. I don't know. Stop thinking about that.

[B]

But you'll be like, we. We'll use that term, relationship. Right. Like as a result, relations.

[A]

Yeah, it's a relationship.

[B]

Okay, agree. All right, pivot. Sorry. Continue. Okay, go back, go back to that question.

[A]

Well, people. A few people ask that and I.

[B]

Could tell how do you maintain it or what?

[A]

No, I think there's a lot of people who don't prioritize adult friendships and then what ends up happening is I think they feel a little lonely and then you only have your spouse for sure to dive into and that's. You should dive into your spouse.

[B]

But they can't fill.

[A]

I'm not talking about sexual relations, Michael.

[B]

No, I, I don't, I don't think, I don't think. I don't think your spouse. I. If, if you expecting me to be the only person to fulfill every one of your needs, I think that's a. In an inappropriate expectation.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I can't. Nor can you with me.

[A]

Well, and it's even biblical that God made us as beings that have to have. Relate not just one single relationship. We don't die only talking to one person our whole life. Like we are very social beings. And so I think the key is, I think the biggest key in mess up and I think this is even something that we teach our kids is like, you have to choose so wisely who you're giving yourself to on a deep level.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because if you choose a girlfriend that is your best friend, that's only going to tell you when you have a rough day with your husband or something happens, you know, screw him, leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that actually good advice in that moment? I would say no. The thing that I think about for my friends in being a friend is if I might not be their first pick to come to if they just want to hear your right. Because I'm not going to do that. And I think all my best friends know that I will always support. I will always want you to succeed. But. But I will also say, have you tried X, Y or Z before? So let's talk about like divorce or have you tried that first? Have you. I will question because I, I met you two as a, As a unit and I met you two as a pair. And if I'm going through problems with you, I would hope someone would be like, jen, really think about this before you take this extreme step or whatnot. Now, there's a course reasons to leave. I'm not saying everyone should stick it out, but I'm saying on a very, let's say, a level that we all could relate to in marriage, which is you're annoyed about something that's happened. So many, like, there's annoyances, there's days where I'm sure you look at me and you're like, I do love her. I do love her. I do love her. I do love her. And every day it's a choice to stay married and work on being happy together. And so on my really low day, is my best friend gonna look at me and be like, you love Mike. You've got some crap you guys need to work through. You do need to seek help.

[B]

You do love me.

[A]

I do love you. But that's a. That's a damn good friend.

[B]

That is good friend.

[A]

And that's who you need to pick, those friends, because you don't. They. They just have so much influence over us, whether we want to admit it or not. My best friends have a lot of influence on me. If I think one way and come in hot to an argument and they're like, well, Jen, have I heard this? Or I would trust her. I would be like, oh, I didn't know that. And instantly I'm gonna trust what she says, which could sway my belief. See how easy it's. It's a slippery slope. Who we put our hearts in the.

[B]

Hands of, that is. I think that's super sound advice, and I'm very grateful. You're the kind of mom that teaches our kids that as well. And it's because it's the same thing. I believe it's be, you know, be careful that you're close to. Those are the closest to you. Are you. And it's, you know, that, you know, the adage of the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Right. That's could be applied to, our kids are going to probably end up a little bit like dust. That's pretty much not always as you said, like, you know, somebody comes from really tough circumstances can really excel. We're not exclusively our parents, but it's the same thing with, you know, show me your friends and I'll show you who you are. That's another adage, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that is the case especially. It's one thing I remember my. It was my dad actually say that when I was, you know, in high school. Show me Your friends and show you who you are. And if you think your friends are a bunch of turds, you're probably a turd too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Honestly, if you're like, I can't trust them. One of these people, I hang out with them all the time and you know, they're my friends, but they are just like when I wouldn't have my sister marry this guy, you know, like, like you're probably not.

[A]

And we all have friends that are like fun. Perfect. I'm talking about the deep.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But it's, it's. But your friendship is collectively kind of who you are regardless of what you think we are. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so I think what you said is about that, about, you know, making sure you're careful and trusting that challenging thing. This is why friendships. It's what I say. The relationship between you and I is a friendship as well. And the relationship with friends, there's a lot of similarities that kind of come between it. Because real relationships tell each other the truth.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't tell the other person just what you wanted to hear, as you said, because that's a hype man. Hype mans are fun. You want those people in your life. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's always good to be like. Like you and also think real friends celebrate your victories. Real friends celebrate. That's what you do with your friends.

[A]

One of my best friends is a hype man. But I also know she was.

[B]

Oh, she's telling.

[A]

And tell me the truth.

[B]

Yeah. 100.

[A]

I actually am so lucky that I have quite a few hype women that also are like gin.

[B]

Yeah. If you. And. And I. And jealousy is very normal amongst all humans about when you have a friend who like, you know, guy thing. If you have buddies who has get promoted. They have businesses, they sell their businesses and they make all this like all these accomplishments. You're like, man, what am I doing wrong? Like these things that you start to think in your head, the right mentality is like, friends celebrate. Friends wins.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Friends encourage their friends because that's what you want in your life as well. And as opposed to the deep seatedness of that can be like the jealousy gets in the way of your own maybe thoughts about who you are and what. Because that's not friendship. Friendship is part of that. That. So that supports part of it. The second side of it is because that trust is that you tell the truth.

[A]

But see you.

[B]

You're honest with each other.

[A]

I agree with you. But I see, I think that's where us and where we are in our journey as being confident in knowing who we are and standing firm. If you are not confident in yourself, in your life, in a point of content and happy, it's really hard to celebrate other successes when you feel like you're getting left behind.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

That's why these relationships are so tricky. And if you find that you're getting jealous a lot, if you're why there's a root there, if you are, there are. It's like such. It's even tricky to talk about because like, okay, actually I'm going to talk about me because nothing, it can't sound bad because I'm talking about my own experiences. But when I was a stay at home mom and you were doing this is right before the blog and you were working, you had gotten promoted, you were in school to get your master's. I was face to face with what I didn't know at the time. It was. I was jealous because I felt like you were bettering yourself. And I also was like, I'm a really smart person and I can be talented and I'm so driven and motivation, you know, motivated. And I think that also those things. So being a stay at home mom, what can I do in my life to make me feel feel fulfilled? Fulfilled. So I can be happy for you? I think the same thing kind of goes into having healthy relationships with others. Think about relationships that go south, specifically with women. They're typically over pretty stupid, catty things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it goes down like that. It goes down quick. And men are not. I will give men this where you guys, in my mind, I know you disagree with me. I don't think you guys know each other as deeply as women can know each other because of the less details that you share, the more guard you keep up. I'll give you credit. You guys are so much better at grace and forgiveness and moving on. Women are.

[B]

You can literally get in a physical fight with your friend and if you're good friends and then by the end of the physical fight, you're laughing with each other because you've, you've figured out whatever it is and you're like, move on, it's all good.

[A]

But do you think literally, literally, let's break it down. Do you think women become more hurt on it on a different, like higher impact level? Because maybe we did share more and so we feel like it's maybe more personal.

[B]

It's different. It's just.

[A]

It is, it's very complex.

[B]

Again, where it says this, where the it's the comfort level. Men need deep relationships as well. They need to find people that they trust to be able to share whatever it is that's going on in their life in a mutual standpoint. So call it a, a, you know, accountability partner or call it a mentor relationship. Call it just a good friend that you can be like, dude, I'm having a hard day. People need those. But I want to go before I go this because we. You said something. I want you to go back to this.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You talked about how you're feeling when that, when that, when my, you know, phase of life was going up. You know, the promotions and the travel and the awards for company and then the MBA program.

[A]

I was just really tired.

[B]

But, well, it was. And they retired and you had a new baby. But who gave you solid advice?

[A]

My mom.

[B]

So you went to somebody. Did she tell you, Jen, you should feel that way?

[A]

Heck no. She's so gently and loving, lovingly told me your husband is providing for your family and this is an agreement that you both, you were so pumped to stay home. This is what you wanted and it's such a blessing for me to be able to do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So before you go and get on to him for working and doing things to potentially better the family in the future. Okay. Share your thoughts with him. Yes. But what can you do in your own life from day to day, from your hours of your eyes being open, what can you do to provide more joy? Yeah, you can't go out and join a tennis league. Right now you're at home, you have two babies under one and a half. Like that's not feasible. So you got to get. What else can you do? Like this, you. I'm not going to feel sorry for you for creating a family and making an agreement that you both agreed on. She didn't say it like that, but that's. Looking back, my mom was so tactful and being like, I've been there. I see you. I. My mom has felt the same way. I think a lot of stay at home moms feel that way. But you don't want to talk about it because then it makes it look like you don't like being a mom in that moment and it makes you feel horrible. And on in my. Before I got to my mom, I mean, this is probably six months brewing, which for me is two eternities. Because if I am uncomfortable and angry, I give it about one minute before it surpasses my lips to Mike where I'm like, I don't like that. Like I don't hold things in. I don't stew. I instantly address it. I'm an external processor and I think Mike has become more of an external processor because of me. Wouldn't you say you were definitely put it under the rug.

[B]

Wasn't necessarily under the rug. I mean there are things. I mean there's some things that.

[A]

Yes and no talking about your family. You'll be like rug.

[B]

There's sometimes. Here's the thing. I will say that that's a bigger thing. Not with you and me. I've never been at ones like not gonna address that. You and I have always been this. Don't go to bed angry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hash it out if it's something and if you know, it's okay to walk away and come back. But let's talk about it. At least have some resolution before you go to bed and you wake up, you're stewing on and yeah, you may. You may not be exactly right. But it's amazing how good night sleep sometimes can make you feel better because sometimes fights just happen when you're tired because you're tired and emotional and that just happens and you're like, why did I act that way? That was stupid. Why was I so emotional yesterday? Right. But with my. With like deeper things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have things with my life and, and past and I have a great family and are we perfect? No. Do I come from a family that split. I was three years old. My parents got divorced. Right. There's deep seated things that are in my life that are part of it. Of course there is. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And we can talk about this second as it translates to the things. But there are parts of my. That it just doesn't matter that much to me. And I know things matter to you. It's like I don't need to know every detail. I really don't. And I'm. I am that person. It really doesn't impact. The details don't matter that much now resolving parts of that life. That's maturity and growing and. And this is part of. And I. I guess we can continue on the friend thing or I think we can transition right. To the kind of extended family. Because I kick up. I want to make natural.

[A]

Well, I want to make one more comment about you and me because it. I don't know if maybe someone who's like me need would like to hear this or maybe it'll help you understand a little better. This is so. I can't believe I'm like admitting this out loud. It makes me look like kind of like a mean person. But remember I got married very young. I was, I met Mike.

[B]

I'm 12 years older than you.

[A]

Mike is 12 years older. I got married at 23 years old. Mike was married prior to me and he was 37 when we got married. 12 years older. 36.

[B]

Can you do math?

[A]

No.

[B]

You were how old?

[A]

I was 23. So. So 35. We got there team. It just took us a minute. All this to be said. I was very young.

[B]

That's why I work with the kids on their math homework.

[A]

I was very young and it was like my, I had like relationships in college that lasted like 10 to 11 months. Like three times. And like yeah, that's a significant time. But people nowadays, they date into their 30s and they have like seven year relationships where they get married. So I was very inexperienced on a deeper level. Right. And I know that now. But I remember when we'd argue when we were very first newly married and we. I will say we didn't have like blow ups. We've been very fortunate to. Where we both communicate pretty healthily. We set boundaries. No cussing at each other, no name calling. And if it gets to the point where someone is feeling like we're name calling, we call that out instantly and be like, you don't say that and like we have to respect that. And I think not cussing at each other definitely keeps things not escalated, which is helpful. So if you don't do that or if you are, you find yourself like in marital relationships where that does happen a lot. I just think that every time like you get name called or for it. The cussing thing is totally me. Not Mike, it's me. I'm like, I don't want any cussing when we're arguing because I think what it does is it like chips away a little bit of like my heart. Like just a little bit of like I've never had anyone talk to me like that and I'm not going to start now. Like in a marriage.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, I will say this though, and I mentioned this before, there are people that have relationships.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That can swear at each other and that's part of their dialogue.

[A]

I don't, I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it that it does.

[B]

I totally disagree. I say if both people communicate in that way and there are sometimes even. It's like regional, cultural, cultural things. Part where you grow up and part of what you hear. And, and if you, if you're not affect. Offended.

[A]

I was right.

[B]

And I don't because that's your perspective.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're. If. If it offends you, the point where you feel like you're being attacked or being torn down by it, and that other person may be like, I don't care if you drop an F bomb. I mean, it's not gonna hurt my feelings at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's just how we talk. Right. We can't put our own personal.

[A]

This is just me.

[B]

Yeah. That's you. That's your perspective. Yes.

[A]

And I'm Right.

[B]

I wouldn't like that. I personally. But there are people that. Again, I'm not. There are people that way.

[A]

Right. And I'm kind of ratting myself out. But this was, like, immature. Me is like. We would have an argument, and I am extremely fast in comebacks and talking. And Mike would say I'm the worst to argue with because it just sounds like I never back down and I'm quick and, like, instantly have a comeback. And I remember Mike being like, I'm taking a minute. And in my immature, selfish head, I'd be like, got it. He can't even hang with my arguments, Mike. And now I realized, ultimately, I'm losing by not letting you step away, because don't I want your actual, like, true thoughts? Like, you need to get those together and come to me. And that way we can actually have our truth rather than me just winning an argument.

[B]

That's. Because if.

[A]

And that's evolved.

[B]

Well, if it goes to escalation of emotion, where you get to the point of anger, and if you fight in. You can be angry, and angry is a real healthy emotion. You have to recognize. Yeah, but if you're fighting from a place of anger, it causes you. You lose almost a little bit of.

[A]

I don't think mine's defense.

[B]

Right. Yours are defensive.

[A]

Like, no, I'm gonna win this.

[B]

But if you. That's. That's a mindset thing, and I'll talk about that.

[A]

And I've evolved.

[B]

That's right. But if you go to place where you put a person at a position of anger, anger creates reaction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That doesn't always have the best thought. Sometimes it just happens. Right. It's like. It's like. It's like. You can say defense, and they can say. It's like, I'm. If you're angry, I'm becoming defense. You start swinging, and you can hit low, not. Not physically hit, but you actually say things like, I've never hit them. Yeah. No, it's. I mean, it's not record, but I mean, like you, it's become a low blow. Call it right. A low blow where you're like, you just said something to cut that person down. I'm angry and I'm gonna hurt you because you hurt me and I'm angry. And then you're saying things that you're like, okay, how do we come back from this? Right. And you should be able to. We're both of us, have I, you know, we've learned this through. Through time. It's like, hey, when you said that, so you know that didn't feel good.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And I've said that to you and you've said that to me, and we both like, you're right. And that's fair because you can say it now at a place that it's not coming from high emotion.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's where it is where it's at, stepping away to come back in that you're not coming from a place of anger. You're like, okay, I got to collect my thoughts before I'm say something mean.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't want that. That's not good. Right. But what you just said, fighting isn't about winning.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you come into a mindset of. And this is even relies to friendship.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you come in a position where I'm going to win, you will always lose in the long run. Because reality is. Is in compromise in a life. Like, you can feel you're in the right, but if you come into position of the mindset, I'm gonna win this no matter what. And yeah, you may win that. You're gonna hurt relationships in the long run.

[A]

Correct. But just for anyone who might, like, relate to what I'm saying, people like me who might. It's not like when we're. When we're in the fight, it switches to, now we're saying, I've gotta win. It never makes face like that. It's more so like, because I am very quick. It's like a lawyer almost. So when you put something at me like a point, I'm instantly like, well, why would I do that? What's the rebuttal like? It's not like I want to win. It's just my brain is like, no, why is that wrong? Prove the wrong. And. And for, oh, you know, I would say quite a few years. Again, I'm in my early 20s. I would argue like that. And you would get so mad and so upset. And you would say, it's so frustrating to have these conversations with you. All you want to do is win. And in My mind, I'm like, no, it's not winning. It's like defending myself because I'm not a bad person type of thing. And so I think I. There's been recent times where we argue and you may not believe me, but like, I really do not say everything. I keep my mouth shut and I feel like it's really evolved. I give you space and I don't like, mock you if you need more time. I don't think in my head, like, got him and I'm putting myself out there for getting total judgment. But like in my young 20s, because you weren't as quick and you were more mature and you thought before you spoke, which is such a wise way to be. I didn't have that wisdom. I definitely saw it as like a weakness, like, got it. And that's evolved in my brain to where I want Mike to take time. One, he could really hurt my feelings if he says something really mean to me and I don't want that. I don't want to push him to that level. Two, if I give Mike a minute to talk, he's gonna come back to me. Not with like, I used to think you were like crafting this false narrative. I was giving you too much. Like, that's how I thought as like a really young 20 year old. Well, I didn't either until I got older. And now I'm like, I want him to take time. That way he can actually express to me what he's actually feeling and then I'm getting to know him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the real what this is coming from. So anyways, I don't know why I'm talking about this. It's just if you, anyone can relate to me, I would say challenge you and say it's really hard. But think about it as like challenging yourself to actually give that person time to walk away for and really, like, actually give it. And don't think of it as like weak or they're faking something against you really think of it as like a good thing. Like now he. You won't say mean things like I said, because you're gonna cool off into. We're really getting to the root.

[B]

I'd say it's like the mindset thing of, you know, you talk about a mindset of joy and a mindset of like, I'm going to come. Like, you talk about mindset a lot. And we, we both are.

[A]

I'm very like, positive.

[B]

Positive mindset is really something that's important to how you look and direct to things. Arguments, negotiations, Whatever it may be that you're doing, compromise should always be a position of growth or gain, not winning. Because if you grow from that, you learn from that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That really is actually winning for both people. But if it's winning. Winning is a competitive thing. If I win. If I win, what does it innately mean? You lose.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's the mindset where it's like, I don't care if it's supposed to be we.

[A]

Like we have.

[B]

Which is why. Which is why real arguments go through a position of gain. You both grow, you both gain from it. Right. You may not have this, but the thing is like, man, I got it all the way to here and I showed them. But that's not real. That's not. That's not friendship. That's not relationships.

[A]

You want to reiterate that? I'm talking about a very young, newly married.

[B]

No, for sure. No, no. You, you. I 100 agree with that. You look, you are.

[A]

I'm just sharing.

[B]

We don't.

[A]

Other people who are quick, they think like me and we're. I have a really hard, harsh tongue. I could. If I let it escape and I.

[B]

Have to choose and I can say mean things out of anger and that's not something that is healthy. Right. And that's where. Again, I'm not saying it was this like super mature person that came into thing, but I've went through other relationships that allowed me to have a different perspective on what relationships should be because I went through other stuff that wasn't a good one. Right. So, you know, through life, you learn.

[A]

I think you've been extremely patient with me.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I think given how much younger I was and.

[B]

And you, you can't. I mean, to your defense, you were hyper mature for your age. You're all old soul in so many ways. Like you really. I never. When we talked about this in other podcasts and stuff, I never. When I first met you, I didn't pin you at 22.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That wasn't something. I thought you would have aged. I thought you were joking. You thought I was? Yeah, you know I was. That's all. Yeah, but it's.

[A]

The thing is really grown, but I.

[B]

Would say so how does this relate to friendships? I think it's the same thing. And this isn't about negativity. And I guess, I mean, I'll do a real quick recap and summary from an interested time here. Friendships have to meet. You have to meet your friends at where they are, and they have to meet you where they are. Times of proximity and circumstances you're in. If you have an expectation that your friendships are going to be like they're in their 20s and you're now or in your 40s with kids or a different phase or 30s with kids, the life may be different. Right. And those evolutions of friendship may change. Real friends will stay. And that's one thing I can say about guy relationships. My buddies that I went to West Point with, I met some goody buddies of mine was in D.C. a while back and I picked up roulette friend conversations with people and felt like I hadn't had, you know, I hadn't been talked to in 20 plus years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it felt the same. Literally. I was like, you're catching up and you have fun. You're talking about. And it was a real thing since you had commonalities and very formative parts of your life. My buddy Steve in high school. Right. So one of my best friends in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And him and I may not talk for six months at a time. We catch up, we pick up, we can go deep with things, and it's awesome.

[A]

So I think the answer of like, how to maintain friendships as an adult looks very different. Different one if we're just really gonna like, put a gender on it. Men versus women look different. I think as far as like needs to keep a relationship feeling.

[B]

They look different, but they're still the same.

[A]

Right. So I think that's kind of a slippery slope. I guess. I guess to answer a question of like, how do we maintain adult relationships? We don't do like weekly or even monthly date nights together. We don't. But every once in a while we'll do a double date or a group date. We do our group summer friend to Cabo. We do our big group trip. And I really hope that never ends. And sure, couples can come sometimes in other years, they've got camps or whatever and they can't. But I think just even once a year, all getting together in that capacity and being together six whole days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It like feeds it enough to keep those relationships that already have 15 years down, you know, in history. But.

[B]

And the other one is, is that we support each other's kids as well. I mean, we have friends that come up and anytime our kids going up, they're. They're popping in and want to be a part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And vice versa. And so when you support their family and you're there at their needs, then it creates and connects the bonds that are better. And it creates a real a Stronger relationship of real commonality and real connection point. So it's like where you are. But if it's a hey, every night I need something for you. It's just that's not our phase. Nor is it their face. And that's where it's like. It's sounds bad, but it's like it's easier to have people that are in the same phase of life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's again sad. The hard thing to admit is it is. It is easier.

[A]

And if you are someone who does like weekly friend dinners. That's fantastic.

[B]

Great food.

[A]

That's amazing. We are not capable. My mom did in our life. But that's. We have a kid in sports or something. All but one day a week. All we have no free days except one day a week. And you better believe that night we get in Visa and we watching a family movie. Not going to anyone's home. But that's important too.

[B]

I grew up and I'll say to my mom and when my. My stepdad Friday after work. Mine was a hairdresser and Friday she had real busy schedule. But Friday night she worked late. I remember probably Von's ages, maybe like 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. Where my sisters were a little bit older. They'd be doing friend stuff. My mom would pick me up and I'd go to dinner with my parent. My. My mom, my step bowling night. Kathy. Yeah. That was even really Kathy and her husband Gordy. And Kathy was kind of like the aunt that was a friend. And we totally missed the whole kind of like family extended things. We'll probably do that for the next episode. Might as well talk extended family in the next one.

[A]

We can do extended family next one.

[B]

But that being said, it's like that was awesome. And so that relationship was cool. Like they spent every week. They did dinner every single week. And I was always there with them. And I was. I was kind of like, you know, schlepped along. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's fun for me as a kid, you know, got to go out to dinner.

[A]

I guess that kind of equates to like our friend group trip. And sometimes we'll do two. Like for two years. They're the women. We all surprised our husbands with a trip to Vegas because all the wives hate Vegas except Charity. She loves Vegas. She's excited to go. But all the men love it. And so as a Christmas gift we were like, let's do it. And we did two nights in Vegas, did a show. So that literally we had two trips together.

[B]

Yeah. We literally fly in one full day and fly out. That's really a super quick weekend.

[A]

But it was enough weekend for the guys to feel like thank. Like, thank you. We, we love Vegas, but they do like it when we're there too. Like that was a lot fun.

[B]

I love that trip. That's super fun.

[A]

And so we, we may not do the weekly dinners, but we, when we're vacationing with friends, like they're our group, you know.

[B]

But yeah, again, everybody persons in the community is going to be a circumstance of it. The where you live, the, you know, the environment is going to be different. So like, you know, proximity, as you said, makes a big difference and we're very fortunate with the community. We have in the school district and all the things. We have friends that there, they've. We have a lot of people in the common things. Some people might have different circumstances. And again, a little caveat asterisk on this one. If you know this, theoretically, we're the most connected we have ever been as a society because of social media. Realistically, we're the most disconnected. Really. Is it. I mean that's, that's proven we are the most disconnected of a society we've ever been because we often experience life through the screen and that's not real life. And I actually, you know, I have this hope and you know, hope. I don't know if it's a pipe dream, but it's a, it's a hope that our kids will come to the point where they understand that relationships are textual, they're real, they're connected. Yeah, I understand that. Digital relationships are part of. It's how people evolve their friendships, like slip into the DMs. Didn't even exist when I was a kid to meet a girl. That wasn't a thing. No, that was like, how did I ask you out in person in front of a bunch of people store. And I did it because that's how I was.

[A]

Mike Senior's got balls. Mike Senior. That's your dad?

[B]

That's my dad. He's got balls too. We both have balls. They might be snipped, but Todrick, why.

[A]

Did I say senior? Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, Mike.

[B]

But that relationship. But having that ability to meet somebody in the real world makes a difference and having those real relationships. And I think obviously we got to teach our kids. It's a whole other thing about teaching kids through the social age of, of.

[A]

Technology how to meet people, how to talk to people, how to ask a girl out. Not only in text message. Yeah.

[B]

Look at somebody in the eye.

[A]

Yes. And you better believe we are doing that. That's doing our best. And Vaughn is not or anyone. They're not gonna be only asking people. You're not asking someone to be your girlfriend on texture. To look her in the face. You. You're not going to ask her to go on a date. Well, I mean, I guess if it's like far away. I guess. No. Call her. Yeah, call her. Do it with your chest. Like I am still standing by that.

[B]

But the girls right now be like, it's weird he called me on the phone.

[A]

Do you know what it's giving. It's giving confidence.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And I'm so attracted to confidence.

[B]

As I told.

[A]

Even if you're weird. Beer weird. There is something about God bless. I mean all our kids are confident. But Vaughn does have. He does not care. Like and there is. And sometimes we want him to care even more. Like son, care about your hair right now. Can you fix it? Like he's also 12. But he. There are some kids that really do and they want all the name brand stuff and bonds his own person. It drives us crazy sometimes because we were like, you know why we have to explain certain things to you. Their basic needs in life. But like hygiene. 12 year old boys and hygiene.

[B]

Yeah. It's like real poison.

[A]

Hygiene is painful.

[B]

You're at the age you actually have to shower every day now. This isn't an optional thing anymore. You are stinking, dude. But it's. Yeah. So with this being said, you're right. Confidence and all those things and relationships. But real relationships happen in person.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You can create genuine relationships online. Absolutely. I've made buddies playing video games, believe it or not, like legitimate.

[A]

So all this saying is we. We have friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we think they're important, but we don't think they're as important of like what we have here. And so they're. They're definitely something we prioritize. But it's a different level of effort put in. That sounds bad.

[B]

No.

[A]

If a friend calls is a need. We drop what we're doing and we will be there. And I hope all of our friends feel that way about us. But we're also very busy, just like they are. We have awesome, really successful friends and success looks different across all of them. It's not measured by one thing.

[B]

No.

[A]

But we're all successful doing our businesses, our jobs, raising our children that like fit me in when you have time, friend. You know what I mean? Like, and that's okay. And you can't get upset about that.

[B]

So I just.

[A]

Lowering expectations is a beautiful thing in like every relationship in the whole world. Because then you take them for what they can give in that moment and that's okay. And then you accept them for that. That's a whole deeper thing we don't need to talk about. But I. You taught me that.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[A]

Yeah, you taught me that.

[B]

And it sounds so if your expectations are too high, you're gonna always be measured low. It's. It's just.

[A]

Well, you're gonna be disgruntled and then you're not a good friend because you're ticked all the time.

[B]

Like really, why wouldn't they do that to me? It's like, you know, for my friends, for me, it's comes simple thing. Can I hang out with you? Do you make me laugh? Do I. Do I actually find joy in being around you? Really distills to that like simple thing. And I guess maybe it's a little surface level of it, but again, deep. I go deep with you. You know, my. My dad or you. I have selected people to go deep with the rest of my friends. I want to have fun with them, I want to hang out with them. And when they know, they' I'll be there for him just like you will be there for me as well. You know, we had. I had a good friend of mine passed away from cancer and it was. It sucked. But during that time, it was really cool to see the number of people that came out for him as well. Like even people that you thought might have theoretically extended more service relationship. But people really stepped up for him during that time and it was awesome to see that it was not just, you know, being, you know, as horrible as it was for everything, there still was love and joy that came through those circumstances that. That brought a lot of people together and I know Justin would want that. Right.

[A]

So just friendships are so important for so many deep things. Not for you, for them, for families like they.

[B]

So the summary of this relationships are important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you don't have friends, go make you got. I mean, I know it.

[A]

Go get some.

[B]

But just got to be genuine and you got to be. It's got to be natural and it's got to just be in a place and it's. And I mean we can't give, you know, can't teach people to friends. But try to find people. Try to find people you trust and literally find. Find it in your finding. Like, look, if you if you don't have a group of people do it, go find them at church. Oh, I got some fun questions.

[A]

Yeah, let's do one of the questions because we're already at an hour mark.

[B]

All right. I got this on my phone. Oh, we're doing a little bit over. All right. Okay. If your friend group had a warning label, what would it say?

[A]

My stomach gurgled. Depends on the friend group.

[B]

Unhinged.

[A]

Our friend group that we do vacation with is a little explicit.

[B]

Yeah, but they're not.

[A]

They're all made. We're all good people.

[B]

I call it even explicit.

[A]

We were friends before some of us were even married.

[B]

Morning late. I don't know.

[A]

It's not maybe that. But they're not explicit. No, but when we've calmed down, we were in bed at like 9:30 one night in Cabo. I hated that. I was like, what are we doing? Why are we acting like we're old? I was so offended. I would say loyal. I would say loyal.

[B]

But that's not warning label. Warning. We are loyal. I guess that is so maybe that's.

[A]

Not a good question.

[B]

That's a warning. Warning is loyal. They're gonna like. I mean, there's. The thing is, is that I do think everyone in the group that we have because of the. You know, we've been friends long enough now we have kids that are in the same life. There's never been like we defend each.

[A]

Other like in the. Really the group. No, I mean we have difference of opinions on things and sometimes it'll be tiffs, but like nothing crazy. And I don't think anyone ever questions like, I mean, I guess I don't. I always speak for myself. I'm never like, oh, I don't know if they're my friend after this. Like never in my wildest dreams. But then again, I have lots of different friend groups, so that's just the one that I've known.

[B]

All my random questions were family related and I tried this twist like I wrote them. I really thought they were going to be family connected at the end because I thought there was a tail end of it. So we'll do that next week just to keep it weird here.

[A]

Go ahead, question. So you guys submitted these questions back in 2022.

[B]

And again we'll. We'll just go and say it here. If you have questions you want to submit, you can put them in James dms. You can go and put it on the email which is you, me and Mike podcast gmail.com and charity will put that right here and up there and both sides of the things anyway, but those are places to do it.

[A]

And this isn't saying that this is a question, because it kind of ties in. I don't know if we've already answered it, though. Did you know? Because I just shared. I'm doing. I just shared, like, an old podcast, and it was from September 8, 2022. We've actually been gone three years.

[B]

For real. Happy three year anniversary.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Do you know when and where your kids were conceived?

[B]

I know Berkeley 100%.

[A]

Who asked this?

[B]

I know 100 where Berkeley was. Cabo. Yeah. That timed up. It was because I was literally. You just stopped breastfeeding. And it was a trip that we won and we went to one of the nicest resorts ever in the world. And I was like, it was a trip. I won for my company. And we're like, how do we put in this at this hotel? This is wild. And we had fun.

[A]

Vaughn. Vaughn. No.

[B]

Yeah, Vaughn was. Was.

[A]

So we're trying.

[B]

Yeah. So again, if you didn't listen to the podcast and whatnot, we, you know, it's part of the journey. Jen went through a miscarriage, and then Fawn was kind of our angel baby, and he's, you know, a blessing and all thing. But I remember there's a baby. I thought they called angel babies.

[A]

That's like angel food cake. What are you talking about? If you're going to use a term, you got to make sure it's correct. It's a rainbow.

[B]

I thought it was called an angel baby. I don't know.

[A]

That sounds like the baby that's in heaven.

[B]

Well, maybe baby's looking down on heaven baby.

[A]

So.

[B]

Okay, well, regardless of whatever that term, you. I can't even remember because you were like, we're making a baby. You were on. You. You were on schedule. You're like, I'm humming. I'm ovulating. Let's go. I was a piece of meat.

[A]

He was a piece. That's true.

[B]

100. I was like, yeah, that was. It was awesome.

[A]

You were mad.

[B]

I was not angry.

[A]

You were not mad. You were like, I meet and I love it.

[B]

I am just here for copulation. That is only.

[A]

I will say, though, anyone that has had a miscarriage, it does. Does do something to that pregnancy. It does make it a little bit more like a job. It does make it a little more like a goal. It does suck some joy out of the entire pregnancy, sadly. Even me with a very positive mindset. And if it's Negative. Like, shove that crap down, because at the end of the day, it's not. It's gonna steal joy from something that I'm in and God has blessed me with right now. And it still was a choice for me to, like, choose to do that. And. But I will say it got better with the second and the third. I did not feel like that I was very grateful for the children I had, and I was very much more at peace of, like, whatever happens is God's plan, and I was more at peace with it. But as a young 20, I think we got pregnant with the first baby six months after getting married. So I was literally 23 years old. That was back when I was fighting to win and stuff. Very immature part of my life. No.

[B]

And then Vivian was.

[A]

Oh, Vivian is a great story. So my best friend, another best friend from high school, told me that she was going to do natural family planning and that she was taking. She was taking, like, her vaginal temperature. And like, you can totally.

[B]

I didn't know that. Yeah, she was going to.

[A]

You can totally. She's very holistic. You totally figure it out. Our bodies guide us when we can get pregnant. And technically you're like, three days. And even, like, one of them is not very strong. It's very small window. So once you figure out that window, you can have unprotected sex all day long and nothing's gonna happen. So I was like, okay, teach me your ways. And so she taught me what to look for. Mike was about to go out of town, and it was gonna be a few days. And so I was like, oh, my gosh, we should have relations. And he was like, I go, and you don't.

[B]

Adult relations.

[A]

Adult relations. And you don't even have to have protection, Mike, because there's physically no way I can get pregnant right now. I'm using natural family planning. I know my body. And then I.

[B]

And then you were pregnant.

[A]

And we know it was that time because he was gone for a good amount of days. And the due date put it right at that time. Like, I literally sold.

[B]

So. So this goes back to. Thing is, you know, be careful of the friends you trust, because their advice may be awful. It also goes back to this truth. We weren't. We weren't planned. We weren't not trying where we were trying. Like, we. We at the point where we said.

[A]

We weren't trying, but we were being.

[B]

Irresponsible if, you know, if God had it happen, it happened, and let's go for it. So this. But it was literally like again, within that one month. That's within that one month that we decided that we're like, we're having two.

[A]

Only you're forgetting that we had decided not to have three.

[B]

I was fine with three. Totally fine with three. I'd have four right now if I wasn't 180.

[A]

Well, I told.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would have unlimited. I think someone else. When do you know if your family's complete and sadly maybe it's genetic? My mom said that she never felt like it was complete. She would have more. And I also feel that way.

[B]

Yeah, no, we also know we both did talk recently. I think we're kind of good. We did. Talking would be hard and then we talked about the like restarting over and every time we start digging deeper and we're like, yeah, we're kind of good. We're good. We're good. I'm very happy we have three children. Yes, it is the best thing in the world. And again, in my mind, I thought it was going to be a two. Two person family and I never thought that. Best thing I did start. That's actually was my mindset. Like, two's gonna be great. But Vivian is our. She's our bless our bonus baby and blessing and she was one. We're very grateful for the healthy, amazing kids.

[A]

I'm just so glad she's like hilarious.

[B]

Like, she's.

[A]

She's so freaking fun. Anyway, that's gonna include this episode.

[B]

So the entire episode that was supposed to go family and non marital friendship was again about marriage.

[A]

Oh, well, here we go. Next week we'll dive into the other half of that, which is extended family in laws. Your family. Chosen family. I think there's a lot of conversations.

[B]

That's literally an hour. Easily we could talk about it because everyone knows. The truth is I haven't talked to a single guy that doesn't love their in laws. It's always the easiest relationships.

[A]

Okay. With that being said, thank you guys so much for listening. Make sure you're following along. Apple, Spotify, anywhere you are getting your podcast, make sure you're following. If you love the show, we would love a good review. Oh, my gosh. I clicked on our page when we first started this and was blown away by like the 4.9 rating that we have. I sent that to my producers, also my best friend from high school and she was like, I don't think you understand how nuts that is. Like nuts. She goes start looking at like top podcasts and look at that. And so it's nuts. So thank you.

[B]

Great audience. Thank you for somehow following along with this ADD discussion.

[A]

I think we're okay is with not interrupting each other. Better. We're both. We both just real quick. We have a hard time like I got. So it's very quick. But thank you guys so much. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. And we will be talking about more relationships next week.

[B]

We'll see you on the next episode.

[A]

Thanks, guys. Bye.