Ep. 216: Designer vs. Civillian

Summary

Podcast Summary: You, Me & Mike

Episode: 216 – Designer vs. Civilian
Date: March 4, 2026
Hosts: Jenn Todryk & Mike Todryk
Producer: Thirteen Media

Overview

In this lively episode of "You, Me & Mike," Jenn and Mike Todryk dive into the playful contrast between a professional designer (Jenn) and a self-proclaimed “civilian” (Mike) when it comes to interior design choices and trends. The discussion weaves between true crime, TV show behind-the-scenes stories, and a candid Q&A where the couple unpacks their biggest design disagreements, design pet peeves, and offer a humorous look at marriage, taste, and home improvement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up — Return from Hiatus

• Jenn and Mike reflect on an unplanned break due to winter storms and family schedule disruptions.
  • [00:10] Jenn: "We had a winter storm come through... things kept happening, and it's been like... a month."
  • Bickering about whether “President’s Day” is still officially called “Washington’s Birthday” sets the light, bantering tone ([00:39]).

2. Digression on True Crime vs. Sci-Fi Preferences

• The duo jokes about how women love true crime, while Mike prefers science fiction, giving a glimpse into their personality differences.
  • [04:13] Jenn: "Remember I thought I was gonna be a police officer?"
  • [04:36] Mike: "You are good at defending your argument based on mostly facts."
• Jenn admits her nonfiction preference feeds into her true crime obsession, but also her paranoia ([07:17]).

3. Media Sensationalism & Popular True Crime Cases

• They discuss how the public's fascination with high-profile cases (“the whole devastating Nancy Guthrie thing,” [09:15]) sometimes turns family trauma into entertainment.
  • [10:28] Mike: "Imagine being... your trauma has now become people’s entertainment."
  • [10:29] Jenn: "It's sad…if you really put a label on it, we are consuming this content."

4. Designer vs. Civilian — A Q&A Game

Framing the Challenge

• Jenn asserts this episode will be a "Designer vs. Civilian" theme, with Mike representing the everyman’s perspective ([11:43]).
• Mike claims, jokingly, his AI image edits make him “a designer” now ([11:54]).

Name Origins and TV Production Realities

• Jenn reveals inside scoop about “No Demo Reno” — misconceptions about the show’s name and actual demolition moments.
  • [12:29] Jenn: "As you know, I was on a design TV show... No Demo Reno."
  • "You drop the sledgehammer, and in the next scene—smash, y’all." ([13:19])

Design Trends Mike Secretly Hated

• [15:30] Jenn: "What design trend did you secretly hate...?"
  • Mike cites initial skepticism about terracotta hex tiles at the Jardines’ house, but admits he came around when he saw it ([16:04]).
  • He questions the cost-effectiveness of “zellige tile” — "you're paying for the brand, but you're also paying for that look that you can't emulate" ([17:04]).
  • Both agree the “all-white everything” trend became repetitive and uninspiring:
    • [19:09] Mike: "Every client...I want all white everything."
    • Jenn recounts how finding clients willing to embrace color was "like searching for a needle in a haystack." ([21:00])

Copying in Design

• Discussion about “copying” vs. “taking inspiration” in the design world:
  • [21:35] Jenn: "It's just copying something that you see...It's taking inspiration and then changing things."

Pretending for the Cameras

• Jenn explains how she pushed for more authenticity during production, insisting her reactions to design reveals be genuine, not staged ([24:08]).
• Both agree minor fixes happened post-filming, but outright pretending never occurred.

Judgment and Design Choices

• Mike jokes about judging people for saloon door bathrooms or stripper poles in houses—
  • [26:30] Mike: "You do you. The stripper pole in a house...If you had kids and it’s in your bedroom...that’s the question mark."
• Jenn spots “live, laugh, love” farmhouse signs and frilly valances as her own silent judgment triggers.
  • [29:11] Jenn: "If I had to cast judgment on one thing...live laugh...We gotta take this live laugh out. Instant date back to 2015."
• They discuss changing design norms by age and time, noting what was once “high end” is now outdated ([32:40]).

Aesthetics vs. Comfort

• Mike admits he once preferred “rooms to go” sets but now appreciates curated, mismatched pieces.
  • [31:34] Mike: "Early on...I was the guy who would have gone to Rooms to Go and just bought a room. Looks good out of a box...And you were...Into a flea market...nothing goes together."
• Both value comfort and aesthetics, but Jenn emphasizes “every room being used daily” ([43:52]).

Compromises, Pet Peeves, and Regrets

• Mike reveals he tolerates not having a golf simulator in the playroom and dislikes an awkward staircase placement ([36:02]).
• Jenn’s main regret is lacking a storage closet for her office.

HOA, Property Taxes, Home Ownership

• A playful but real exchange on whether anyone truly owns their home given taxes:
  • [37:40] Mike: "There's something amazing about HOAs...but it's like, this is my house, it's my land, I own this...why is everyone telling me what to do?"

Generational and Personal Tastes

• The couple reflects on how their upbringings and family histories influence their current tastes and flexibility in design.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On authenticity in TV production:

  • Jenn: "I want to come in cold. I want you to film the cameras, and I want to see this stuff for the first time, because that's not acting then that's authentic." [24:08]

• On design fads:

  • Jenn: "Live laugh...We gotta take this live laugh out. Instant date back to 2015." [29:11]

• On copy vs. inspiration:

  • Jenn: "It's just copying something that you see... It's taking inspiration and then changing things." [21:35]

• Mike on design evolution:

  • "Early on...I would have gone to Rooms to Go and just bought a room... Now I like it. Having things that are cousins is better than everything matching." [31:34]

• On marriage and compromise:

  • Mike: "I wanted a golf simulator in our playroom...I was told no and I'm still salty about it." [35:24]

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Fun & Lighthearted Segments

Improv Game: Pitching a Fake HGTV Show

• Jenn and Mike create a fake TV show "WOW" with a guest designer named Gary, joking about the absurd timeslot (“2am on Wednesdays”) and premise.
  • [41:27] Jenn (deadpan): "Tune in and watch WOW, a new HGTV series at 2am on Wednesdays."
  • Mike: "We do everything...except doghouses."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:10] – Catch-up and President’s Day/Washington’s Birthday banter
• [04:13] – Career daydreams and why Jenn wanted to be a cop or lawyer
• [07:17] – True crime, knowledge vs. entertainment, and fears
• [12:29] – Inside “No Demo Reno”: Real vs. Perceived demolition
• [15:30] – Mike’s least favorite design trends (terracotta, zellige, all-white rooms)
• [21:00] – How social media shaped design trends and casting
• [24:08] – Authenticity in reality TV and production process
• [26:30] – “Design choices I judge”: saloon bathroom doors, stripper poles
• [29:11] – Jenn’s design pet peeves: “live, laugh, love” signs, window valances
• [31:34] – Aesthetics vs. comfort, rooms-to-go vs. curating
• [35:24] – Design compromises: golf simulator vs. closet, family room use
• [36:02] – Most annoying spot in the house: stairs in the kitchen
• [37:40] – Home ownership, HOAs, and property taxes tangent
• [41:27] – Improv: “WOW” TV show segment
• [43:52] – Designing for daily life: multipurpose rooms
• [44:17] – Minor home regrets: kitchen nook and window seating

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Recap & Flow

Jenn and Mike’s back-and-forth, marked by affectionate teasing and candid reflections, brings listeners inside their marriage and creative process. The episode is a celebration of design differences, the weirdness of trends, and finding compromise in both TV and home life. Throughout, the tone remains playful with frequent inside jokes and asides, making it accessible for fans and first-time listeners alike.

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Looking Ahead

• Next week: They tease “Part 2” with more design debates and possibly a guest.
• Listeners are encouraged to send in their own questions or topic requests via email or voicemail.

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For more insights and to suggest topics, email [e-mail] or leave a review on Apple Podcasts!

Transcript

[A]

You look relaxed.

[B]

Do I?

[A]

Welcome to 2026 podcast.

[B]

Wait, I think this is our first one.

[A]

This is after a little hiatus, a little extended break.

[B]

Yes. So we had a winter storm come through, and we were supposed to have recorded that week, and we stayed in, and it just kind of snowballed from there to where things kept happening, and it's been like a. We put our podcast out every two weeks, every other week. And so technically, it's been like two episodes, but it's been like a month.

[A]

And then there was the. Our kids were off. We had the. Was it Washington's birthday weekend? Right. So we had that.

[B]

Washington.

[A]

President's Day. I think they call it Washington's birthday now. I don't know. I think that's what it's called.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

Never heard President's Day weekend. Whatever you want to call it. Old school.

[B]

Who calls it Washington's birthday?

[A]

The calendar.

[B]

Is this real?

[A]

I don't know. Might just be speaking on my butt. Well, I googled it today because.

[B]

Does President's Day also refer to as Washington's birthday? Question mark?

[A]

Is this our authority? We've gone. We've gone full AI.

[B]

Yes. It's officially still called Washington's birthday at a federal level.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

The federal holiday is legally named Washington's birthday.

[A]

Yes. What?

[B]

Have you heard of this? Haley?

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

Cool. Me too.

[A]

So you're calling me crazy when I'm. I'm right again. Yet again, Obscure facts.

[B]

A popular name that grew over time, especially in retail marketing that now many states use to honor both Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Riveting. Wow.

[B]

I stand corrected. I don't know anything.

[A]

Like, if you think about. Let's talk Washington for a second, please.

[B]

No.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I want to go to the state, though. Okay.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

It rains a lot there.

[A]

Apparently it does. But when it's nice, it's super nice. Seattle won the Super Bowl. Should have been Green Bay. Shoulda, coulda, wasn't. I've never been to Seattle.

[B]

Wait, have you been to Washington state?

[A]

No, I actually haven't.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. We could share it as a first.

[A]

I heard it's really, really beautiful. There's also a lot of serial killers from Washington state.

[B]

No, it's from Wisconsin. Has a lot.

[A]

I think Washington has. There was a whole. There was a book written about this.

[B]

Do I need to ask?

[A]

Hold on. You can fact check this one. I. I am 99 sure. There was a lady who wrote a book about. Because they used to do a lot of, like, smelting and refinement of like, chemicals and from the mining that was up there that there was like. Like excess asbestos and maybe arsenic that was in the soil. And she felt that there had been like a. Some sort of mental divergency because the. Like these you're making. There's a disproportionate number of serial killers from the Pacific Northwest. I might be making this up. It might have been a weird dream I had, but I'm pretty sure that was something.

[B]

Okay, who has more serial killers? Washington state or Wisconsin? Chats taking a long time. It's really checking thoroughly.

[A]

It's checking you because it's like, all right, Washington. Oh, see, what.

[B]

Why are you ask about times and like, ask this book.

[A]

Is there a book about this with some sort of association to chemicals in the soil? I'm almost certain I'm not going to

[B]

ask that because I don't have time to type that. But can you name the two most infamous serial killers that came out of your home state? Wisconsin?

[A]

I don't. I hate serial killer talk. Like, I don't know.

[B]

Sorry. You asked me tough questions.

[A]

I don't. I understand that I do nerdy things that you don't like. I like sci fi or as you call it, science fantasy. I like science fiction. I do. I enjoy the books I'm reading right now is Red Rising series. It's like super awesome and hardcore and nerdy and I love it and it's awesome. And you would be like, this is crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you like true crime.

[B]

Don't say that. That means it's like a sign that I might be a serial killer.

[A]

All women do. I really think that the ratings is mainly women. I know. I'm not trying to be miss, this isn't a massage and anything.

[B]

No. I think you might be onto something actually.

[A]

Why? Why do. Why, like, I don't get it.

[B]

Well, remember I thought I was going to be a police officer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For a minute in my life, I also thought I was going to do every other occupation under the sun, like name it and I thought I was going to be it. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. I thought I was going to be a teacher. I thought I was going to be a court reporter. I thought it was going to be a news anchor. I thought I was going to be a reporter. Lawyer was a big one. I thought I was gonna be a lawyer for a while, but I think I would have made a pretty good lawyer. I probably should have gone to law school, don't you think?

[A]

I think you are good at defending your argument based on mostly facts. And if you don't have the facts, you're passionate about it, you do, you believe it, but you don't. But you're not. You're not a person. That just goes out a lot of times on hyperbole. You don't do that.

[B]

No. Give me an example, though. What do you mean by hyperbole? Like the. Like, what could happen or.

[A]

Yeah. Like it just leads a straight emotion. No, that's. You're not usually one more skeptical. Yeah, but I'm. But what I'm saying is, like, from. That's like if you have an argument based on the emotion, it's not based on. So, yeah, you. So I think. I actually do think you could be. I think you would have been good at it.

[B]

I think it's a time.

[A]

I think you'd gotten shingles earlier in life with it because it would stress you out. You'd bring cases home.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

That's probably. I'm just grateful you're not an attorney because you'd be like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Talking about it every minute. Yeah, you would be all in. No, you're all in.

[B]

Addictive personality. I would be like. It would be all consuming for sure.

[A]

It's like production.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you bring in. It's exactly what it's like. I. I can't stop. I. Hey, Jen, you could. You could just be the designer and show up and decorative. No, I want to be the ep. No, I don't want to look at final cuts. No, I want to edit. I don't. Like, like, what are you doing?

[B]

I know, it's a. Well, I'm a control freak, so there's a little bit of that too. No one understands until your entire character integrity and image and as a person is in the hands of someone else. And a rough edit can literally destroy that nowadays.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

So, like, if you have never been in that level of like. Like having your hands up for, like, protection, it's like you'll just never understand. It makes you feel like kind of like it's out to get you.

[A]

Yeah. You know, from the arc of the show as well. It was. There was a. You would have new people. Like, they didn't. You didn't have the same. The first season. The second season was in the same editing team. So that was like coming back to it. So it's like through the progression, I think. But, you know, if you. If you choose to keep in eventually, if you had the same consistency, it probably would have created a Lot more trust.

[B]

I know. It's just the turnover with that industry. And every aspect of every job is like really high because they get jobs that pay more or have a better schedule to keep them with their families and then they do salad and give their two week or whatever.

[A]

But going back to my question, why do women like serial killer stuff and true crime stuff?

[B]

Well, I know me, it's because of the whole interest in like criminology. But also, you know me, I don't like to read like fake stories. Like fake. Not like non fiction is what I like. Right. I like non fiction. That means it's the truth. Yes, pretty confident. Non fiction. And so that's non fiction. It really happened. But also I hate it because it now I have this information that people are sick and do these things. And now when you leave at night, I'm thinking I'm going to be, you know, made into a curtain by a serial killer.

[A]

You hate horror movies.

[B]

Yeah, I won't watch them.

[A]

Which is weird because that's totally fake. Like it's not real.

[B]

Like you know, because knowing knowledge and reading it is different than visually seeing the torment on a screen.

[A]

Yeah. What was the one that we started watching in both of you and I was Dahmer. We couldn't watch it.

[B]

Nope. And I know all about dmer.

[A]

I know everything about D. I couldn't do. I was. I can't do this cuz this is real. This is based on real stuff and I don't like the sensationalization of it. That's the part where I think it gets a little bit odd. But however, it's obviously a wildly popular genre and there's. There is interesting facts that come out to like how does Sony get so flipping crazy? I know, that's what weird.

[B]

It's childhood in mental. Anyway, on the topic of tv.

[A]

Well, you didn't get. You didn't look at my, my minerals and chemicals. I don't know if it's wrong. You can. Somebody can. Fact.

[B]

No, but you didn't guess the serial killers out of Wisconsin. So we both.

[A]

Hold on. It's Ted. No, Ted Bundy's out of California. Ed Gain.

[B]

Good. I didn't think you were going to get that one.

[A]

And hold on. Gacy.

[B]

No, well, wait, Gacy I think was. But Dahmer.

[A]

Oh yeah, I said Dahmer already.

[B]

No, you didn't.

[A]

Well, I said earlier, Dahmer's from Milwaukee. I was in high school when that happened. That was crazy.

[B]

Yeah. I can't remember if Gacy's out of dude. Chicago. Or if it was a Wisconsin.

[A]

So gross.

[B]

Or Indiana.

[A]

Anyway, did you know in Austin there's like, there might be a serial killer that they're not reporting because there's like a disproportionate number of bodies they keep finding in Lake Austin.

[B]

Stop.

[A]

I mean, that's freaky.

[B]

I don't want to talk about that. That's like ongoing.

[A]

Yeah, I know, but they. But there's no like evidence that it is. But it's like there's one area of Austin that is like, apparently they're. I don't know, like there's like 30 bodies over the last three years that have come out, which seems like a high amount. Off the block of Rainey street, which is down there, which is an area of Austin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. And it's mainly males.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I was talking to my sister in law about this because of the whole devastating Nancy Guthrie thing going on right now. And everyone. I'm like reading comments online and they're like, how do we lose a grandmother? Like, how are we out here losing people? And I'm like, no. Being from a law enforcement family, people go. Tons of people go missing. Tons. But a lot of people go missing every single day. It's just they don't have the fame surrounding their family, so they don't get it brought to light. Now we don't know about it. Someone right now is freaking out because they have called the cops and someone is missing in their family and we just don't know about it. So it's not uncommon. So I was listening to a reporter who has a criminology background and she's like, guys, a person going missing in this world, on this planet with billions of people, it's like a needle in a haystack. Like, actually think about how it's a miracle when we find people because it's such a big world.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean that. That whole story is crazy. And I actually kind of. I understand like what they're. They have awareness, which is at least they have people looking for their mom and stuff like that, which is, I guess, one positive aspect to it. But at the same time, imagine being everything dissected at every given moment, that your. Your trauma has now become people's entertainment.

[B]

Entertainment.

[A]

Awful.

[B]

Awful. It's sick. I told you that like week one, I said, I am want to find Nancy so bad. I am so invested. And I know my intentions are like, I'm heartbroken for this family. But even such, I'm like looking for updates is a form of entertainment which is. I don't want it to be. I'm not. I don't think it's entertaining but. But I like care but like if you really put a label on it, we are consuming this content around this as a. As it's something to watch. It's sad. It's like I don't think everything should be.

[A]

Well. Yeah, I mean the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The missing person things not to get dark on it. This is where the prayers. I think we need a lot of people or the. Some of the. Some of the individuals who are the high risk individuals. The ones that get traffic, the ones that disappear. The ones that like it's where you don't. If you don't have a family structure, people looking at. If you're in a position where it's not. People do just disappear. And it's like, you know, it's sad that that happens in this world because it's. It's real and it's scary.

[B]

Let's not talk about it. I hate it so much.

[A]

Well, let's turn it around. Let's talk about sci Fi. You want to talk about Red Rising? Great.

[B]

No, we're going to go back to the TV show. Actually. I'm going to run. This is a more Gin Ran episode.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

We're gonna call it Designer versus Civilian. Mike is a civilian.

[A]

This is how we're doing in a military and civilian terms.

[B]

And I'm a designer. And so I think what we're gonna do.

[A]

Hey, listen, thanks to Gemini Nana Banana, I am now a designer. My photo editing ability, I put the prompts in there and I do some really cool stuff.

[B]

Y', all, this man is putting in pictures of every corner of our home. Being like, okay, this is what I'm thinking about here. And then if he'll put his ideas in and then they look really bad, he'll be like, well, that doesn't look good. Let's change. What would you do with.

[A]

That's not about you. The cool thing about.

[B]

Anyway, Gemini. But we're gonna talk about this because as you know, I was. As you know, I was on a design TV show. You might have heard of it.

[A]

Which one?

[B]

No Demo Renault. What number sometimes pronounced no demarino in large.

[A]

That's because it was in Nevada, right?

[B]

No, absolutely not.

[A]

You know what was the. Was the guy we met with and had dinner with at one time before it was. He was the one that was part of the pickup. The original. He was original executive John Feldman. John. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So John was.

[B]

I remember his name.

[A]

Yeah. So John was at dinner. We went to dinner at the hotel near Legacy. And I remember 100. He goes, My only concern about this is people are gonna think it's. It's a regional show located in Reno. He goes. Because he pushed back on the name as well. And he's like, I think people are going to. And so that.

[B]

You know, what my concern was is that we do some demo and the title demo in it.

[A]

Remember the T shirts I made with maybe a little bit demo? Drop the sledgehammer in the first promo. Drop the sledgehammer, and the very next scene.

[B]

Smash, y'. All. Are we treading into deep to dark, scary waters? Let's just be real for a second, y'. All. One of the. I had to make a cut in the first season. It was like, leave the sledgehammers at home. And the next cut, they put me literally using a sledgehammer through a fireplace. And I was like, guys, period, we cannot use this. But. No, but for real, like, to stand. I get what they're doing with the name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Removing backsplash. It's not demolition.

[A]

It's like.

[B]

We know that.

[A]

We call it light.

[B]

The general public, the thinks if you touch. I could remove tile with a fork if I really set my mind to it.

[A]

I want to see that.

[B]

You can shove it in and pry it. I mean, you can. With subway tile 100 now. Chipping the fork into the.

[A]

Yeah. Trying to figure out your. Your technique on this one.

[B]

I need a hammer on the back of it.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

But anyway, so we. I stood by. We did. And when we did demo was the only time we ever removed a wall was Alicia's house.

[A]

Yeah, but that was. That wasn't even a supporting one.

[B]

It was a pony half wall.

[A]

It was a little pony wall. So, yeah, I mean, look, the light. The light demo thing, I mean, it was. Honestly, it's a genius concept, and I think that was.

[B]

And I liked the name. No demo. Renault rolls off the tongue from a marketing standpoint.

[A]

I want a little demo. Big Renault.

[B]

That's what my audio guy came up with. That was his name.

[A]

Came up with that.

[B]

It was. It was Mike. Mike. And I remember we were all.

[A]

Because I told Mike that.

[B]

No, you didn't. No, Mike did that. You can't take that mic.

[A]

Pretty. Pretty sure I said it.

[B]

Okay. So I am going to ask you some questions, and I need you to be honest. As a civilian, even if you think it hurts me.

[A]

As a civilian, yes.

[B]

As a civilian, who knows Absolutely nothing about.

[A]

So if you cry, we succeed on the. I guess the. The purpose of this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You want me to hurt your feelings?

[B]

I won't. That way I'll cry on camera. It'll be good for ratings. You can't get me to cry. Or you can. I'd be like, no. I'd start attacking you verbally.

[A]

Yeah. Your defense mechanism would come in, and I'd be crying. I'm just kidding. I was just joking the whole time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Was.

[B]

You're gonna have to think. These are kind of tricky, but I'm honestly intrigued. What design trend did you secretly hate that you're at? The. No. Demo Renault days. Doesn't necessarily have to be what I did, but maybe a trend with. Does anything stick out that you were

[A]

like, I wouldn't have done that design trend that.

[B]

Probably should have given you these beforehand.

[A]

My first instinct was like, don't get it. Is that what I mean? Or not. My favorite. Huh? The one that I. Well, I'll say this. You told me at the Jardines place what you were gonna do that. Like, what's the terracotta, Right?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

In my mind, when I thought that, I was like, oh, no. I was like, oh, geez, that's gonna be awful. But when I saw it, I was like, stunning. So it's the difference between what your mind says something and when you put it in place. So I wouldn't say that was a negative. Where I actually saw it, I was like, huh. My choice. Not really like it.

[B]

No, I think that's a good one. I used hexagon natural terracotta tile, and we had to, like, treat it after we put it in there. We had to soak them beforehand. It was a whole process. Very rustic.

[A]

I got one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My opinion. This is an opinion.

[B]

Come on, spit it out.

[A]

It's. And it's not. Because it's really bad design. Because I think it's good design. But the cost to return ratio, I'm not. I don't quite understand. Okay. Is the leash.

[B]

It's a leash tile.

[A]

Yeah. I love it. We have it right in our house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm with you. I think it's really cool, and I like the imperfection of it, but there's a lot of ceramics, and I'm like, well, this one is half the price. Because the real.

[B]

Can't get the vibe.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You're 100 Zeligia is like paying for a Gucci bag right now. You're paying for the brand, but you're also paying for that look that you can't emulate. I've done a lot of faux zelige, and none of them give you the shadowing because it's not. They're not imperfect.

[A]

Super limb. Yeah.

[B]

They're made perfectly to try to look imperfect, which is a very big difference because they're all made by manufacturers really quick. That can spit it out. Whereas the leash tile is literally made by hand. So, like, they don't. They can't get it perfect.

[A]

Yeah. Want my opinion? Yeah, no, that's a buck. That's the one. I'm like, okay, if you're going to do a bathroom and it's a guest bathroom, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, Jesus. Lesion there. Use a. You use a good, good ceramic and save a ton of money. And it's. To me, as a guy, I'm like, that looks pretty darn good. Good. Because, you know, we've done that. We, like, at the. The second coffee shop. We didn't do any, like, dis. We did that at the brewery because of work with Riyadh on that one. I wanted to. Yeah, we did. And we. And yeah, so we had a good opportunity on that one, you know, to put in that in the bathrooms, which is really. It looks cool there, but, like, it also. Well, in a commercial setting, you want things that are really wipeable. And.

[B]

Well, when I used it, it was, like, still, like, super new. Like, it wasn't mainstream yet. So I was kind of on that front edge of, like, using the liege, especially on hgtv. And so I wanted it in the brewery. I really like the look, but I remember it's awesome. When we first put it in, Mike was like, oh, it looks like it's crooked. Like, he hated it because it wasn't standard tile.

[A]

And I like it now. You like it in our kitchen? I like. I like. I do like movement. And remember the Italian. I don't know what the one tiles we had at the house. In the first house, the last house we came from. Yeah, you had those longer tiles that had a lot of the movement in. And I always like tiles with a lot of movement in it, so I thought that was pretty cool. It's just that getting used to, like, the mortar being a little bit different. It's just seeing something new. And as you see it over time, it does really look really good.

[B]

It really does look expensive.

[A]

Wow. And one thing I. Oh, more.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, the other. No, I. And this is money. Is because all the clients wanted it. Yes, this is the one. No, no, the all whites.

[B]

Oh, yeah, well, because that was it.

[A]

That every client, we was like, I want to all white everything. Yes, everything. All white. I want everything. Like, you're like, oh, my gosh. And you push beyond that and you had to, like, push from your clients and you fortunately, and even I think, get to the point where. Where it's like, hey, we can't. We're not going to pick people that only want all white everything.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Even though they wanted it. Yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't. It's not.

[B]

No, it's.

[A]

It's not on the front end to design if you're just doing all white now. All white is. It's a clean palette. There's nothing wrong with it.

[B]

It's out. The thing is, is I started actually producing the work for the show, not being a producer, but, like, making the content for the pilot episode in 2019, and that was still very much in the peak height of kind of what Chipping Joe had started, which was this, like, white farmhouse aesthetic.

[A]

Typ was starting to move other things.

[B]

Well, you can see, like, in the pilot episode, I was trying to push it more into, like, industrial vibes, even back then, but it was still very, like, blank. But here's the problem is, like, you get clients, the reveal is real. That is 100%. They. What you saw as, like, far as their first time seeing. It was their first time seeing anything. They didn't even know what we were using, like, in the design, which was

[A]

unique to the show, which was so

[B]

unique and so awesome and authentic. And I. That's the only way I would have it. But it ran a huge risk for me and for everyone involved that we had to do. We had to give them something they liked. So basically everyone wanted the same vibe, right? Everyone wants what's on trendy, on Instagram, whatever. And back then, that was, like, also prime of the Beautiful house content that I also used to produce on Instagram, where no one could be in my photos and I'd clean the whole kitchen during nap time to take beautiful, inspirational photos. It was just different back then, and. And everyone wanted that.

[A]

Can we go back to that?

[B]

No. So I'm so glad we're not in that. And I can be really lazy with my content and just film my day.

[A]

That's not lazy. I think it's more than. It's real. It's real.

[B]

It's more real. But anyway, so we started with clients that wanted that, and then we realized it fell, like, the heavier lifting fell on casting, the casting department to find people who Wanted color to find people who didn't want all white. And it was like searching for a needle in a haystack. Because everyone wants what they see in the Instagram squares at the time. And that's normal. We all do that. Even designers out here designing are looking for inspo on the Internet. From what other people have seen, designing is like. It's just copying something that you see call copy. It is. It's taking inspiration and then changing things.

[A]

Copying is a different. Where you look at something on Pinterest or Instagram, you're like, I'm going to do everything identical. But if you look at like, ooh, that arch over the stove looks nice. I'm going to use incorporate that. Mind you make it your own. It makes your own style. And one thing you've always said you have, like, the design is something unique to you. If you like something that's out of date, but you feel like it's great design around it, and you can elevate things. Like, if you want a honey oak cabinet, well, you could make something work with a honey oak that maybe out of style, but you can still upgrade it in a way that would look pretty cool, right? I mean, heck, we went dark in our. In our flood.

[B]

Flood room, our playroom.

[A]

It's what it was, why we had to redo it. Okay.

[B]

Have you ever pretended to like something because the cameras are rolling?

[A]

No, I actually haven't.

[B]

You would never.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think we would get in a little tiff in front of everyone before

[A]

he would have you make it.

[B]

Oh, have I?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I'm trying. The only way that this would not when the camera. Never when. Hold on. I'm. This is what my hesitation is. I'm trying to remember if there's a time where I was like, this is good because something turned out. And then once I sat there and stewed on it and maybe the cameras shut off, I was like, victor, we gotta fix this. Like, there's got to be something that. That happened, but I can't remember what.

[A]

It's probably because you've always saw things before the cameras. It's not like they're walking every single moment.

[B]

No. Most of the time, like, when I'm walking into, like, an update of they saved that, which I really. It wasn't like that at the beginning. So at the beginning, like, when I first started ever doing television, there's a formula for these home renovation shows, and it's a formula that just even has to be there for the budgeting purposes and the schedule. So they're all ran on the same formulaic. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. And so they know it works.

[B]

They know what works. And they also have to be efficient with the time that they're given to make these. This entertainment.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And so what it used to be at the very beginning, like, when I first was doing the pilot, I would walk in and see everything, and my showrunner would be like, okay, we got this. Done this, done this done. We're going to hit this beat about tiles. We're going to. I need you to talk about the cabinet minutes. I need you to talk about the big plan in the bathroom. And after a few times, I was like, again, remember, baby Jen, I did not have executive producer credit in season one. I had absolutely no say. And if I vocalized it to the production company, it would not go well. So it wasn't great.

[A]

It just fell on death.

[B]

It wasn't healthy.

[A]

It's not like they just fell on deaf ears.

[B]

It fell on deaf ears because they knew what they were doing. They make tv, and I know nothing, even though I made content from nothing and made the platform anyway. So one of the things that I kind of bucked up on was, I want to come in cold. I want you to film the cameras, and I want to see this stuff for the first time, because that's not acting then that's authentic. And so we did. And so I worked with good showrunners that helped me, like, feel comfortable and navigated that. And so there's got to be a time, though, where, like, I came in, because we'd have to make minor changes every once in a while. But they were documented.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So, yeah, I'm sure if we watch the show again, there would be some moments. Think of, like, Alicia's paint color in her living room being too yellow. But I didn't say it was good. I instantly was like, this is horrible on the camera. We have to change it.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I can't remember. No, not intentionally.

[A]

Did change because you remember that was. You had to repaint that one. Yeah. Remember one house they had. Remember that you had the tiles he had perfectly picked out and then it went. There were those during a lot of the COVID like, supply issues. Remember, tiling was how hard to be, like, great, we don't have enough as soon as you go to order. So there were, like, swaps that were being done the day of. Or, like, you know, at install, you're like, we got to put this in. And it was close enough. I Remember some stresses that you'd be like, oh my gosh. But it would end up working out.

[B]

Yeah, good.

[A]

Because you just have to be able to be the pivot.

[B]

What's a. What's a design choice that makes you immediately judge someone? Come on, you can be a judgy princess. Tell me something

[A]

that makes me judge them. I don't judge anyone. Everyone has their. Like the. They make their own choices in life. And when I look at them, I'm saying I may not like this and I may not re. Like have chose this for myself, but there's obviously a reason. Okay, cut the BS and maybe we need to have a. Like a little intervention with them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So got to be some sort of. Some sort of psychological problem they have.

[B]

I'm trying to think of what my. I'm trying to think of what might I really do.

[A]

Like an intention. I mean, there's some weird old stuff. Like we still have the friends of the saloon doors on the bathroom. One that weird. Like, you know, the saloon door friends. Yeah. Don't the journey still have a saloon door or did that you take.

[B]

No. Did you watch the show?

[A]

No. Your old house still has a saloon door?

[B]

Yes, the house I grew up, you

[A]

had a saloon door on a bathroom. That. To me, if somebody made that a design choice now I, I might have something.

[B]

You would judge people who have saloon doors in their bathroom?

[A]

I would have. I'm going to say one right now, and if you're a person that has one, it's okay. Then you do.

[B]

You spit it out.

[A]

You do. You. The stripper pole in a house. We saw a house with that normal. Remember our old neighbors in that first house we moved to. You remember their name? Yes. You remember that?

[B]

I remember them.

[A]

It's cringy.

[B]

And they were not.

[A]

Listen, he was interesting and. Yeah, okay, but with that being said, it's like that's the one where.

[B]

So stripper poles. You're gonna judge.

[A]

Here's the thing. It's. Look, everyone gets to do themselves. Your. Your house is your house, your bedroom's your bedroom. That's. That's the thing. But if you had kids, you got kids and it's in your bedroom.

[B]

He's not kidding. It was smack dab in front of the bed.

[A]

Yeah. Like in their room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's the question mark I have. I was like, how do you.

[B]

This poor lady's working nine to five, coming home, cooking dinner, packing lunches, and then she has to perform at 10pm

[A]

Maybe it wasn't her. Maybe he Was.

[B]

Okay, we're stopping here.

[A]

Listen, at the end of the day, the question is, is to me, it's also like. It's the same thing when I see a party bus with. With the pole.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

They're sturdy.

[A]

I don't know. I'm not saying judge. I'm just saying it's a choice.

[B]

It's a choice. It's a choice.

[A]

Choice I wouldn't make.

[B]

And again, I'm trying to think there

[A]

might be some people out there to be like, I love it. This helps our life. And this is why. And they might have something I don't. Can you empathize with that? Do you. Do you have connection to a. To a pole in your house?

[B]

I use pole dancing sticky grip to hold my tennis racket better.

[A]

Completely makes sense. It's totally relevant.

[B]

It's for pole dancers, but it helps me like grip my racket really well.

[A]

It actually says for a rack. It literally says pole dancing. And remember you bought that.

[B]

I was like, no, you bought that for me for Christmas. I asked for it.

[A]

No, but it said the very first thing. I was like pole dancing.

[B]

It's called monkey hands.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Very great. I highlight.

[A]

Anyway, great for the tennis racket. Interesting design choice. And again, everyone has look they people.

[B]

I'm trying to think of what I judge. And I'm not. I'm like, man, have I gone this empathetic with people in their design choices to where I literally do not. I can't think of anything that I would judge them on because anything that pops in my head that I don't like as a design. I worked with so many people. People like different things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it doesn't like.

[A]

And also age demographic changes too. Some styles will. Will be different. You know, my mom was redesigned something she might not want. What somebody who's, you know, early 30s that's going to design. Because there's a different preference of what they've.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What they've grown to have. Normalization. I mean, like, that's. That's normal too.

[B]

I have one. I think it's like the farmhousey signs with words. If I had to like really cast judgment on one thing, I would be like, live laugh. We gotta. We gotta take this live left.

[A]

Love is still something.

[B]

Instant date back to 2015. Like insta date to 10 years ago. So I would say I'm not like, oh my gosh, this person's horrible. I don't like judge in that way. But I definitely catches my attention if I'm in the house. And I'm like, this is unfortunate.

[A]

Like, there's. You can do some other.

[B]

Take it out.

[A]

I mean, art's a better thing.

[B]

You can buy canvases from Amazon.

[A]

Sure. Of Or Valley look. If you made it, it's homemade and it's up there and it means something. You do it. That's awesome. Like, have those signs up there. But I. Yeah, I kind of. There was something else that was going to say that. What if. Let me give you a situation. What if somebody situationship may had, you know, like, this is a brand new design. Brand new house. And they put those old window valances on with the. With the. You know what I mean? Like the mini curtain.

[B]

I know someone who has those all around her house.

[A]

But just brand new, like a new house. I know they did that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is that a design choice you would choose?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, there you go.

[B]

But the only reason for that is could fit in, like, my design aesthetic. But I also am super big on windows, having no coverings and letting all the natural light in. However, our house is set up on a hill to where we can do that and people can't see in. So I do understand.

[A]

What are those called? The things that case the top of it.

[B]

Only the balances. Yeah, you had that right.

[A]

Those are all right. The. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's interesting.

[B]

It's a very like, like Serena and Lily. Very more of like. I'm trying to. Not preppy, but like, is it coming

[A]

back in style right now?

[B]

Traditional.

[A]

I reminded of, like, what my grandma would have.

[B]

Yes, but they're more like fun colors and stripes or maybe you do florals. Like, it's definitely updated.

[A]

And I was saying the ones that were like the ruffles, you know, like, I'm thinking of like. Because I remember, like. Oh, I think it's. My grandma had, like, yellow and white and it was like, ruffled around.

[B]

It was like, right. No, those aren't in style. Who cares more between you and I about aesthetics versus comfort? I actually don't like that question. I feel like we both like comfort and we both like aesthetic, but you and I sometimes have different aesthetics.

[A]

Well, I've said this many times on the podcast before and even in life, quite often early on, we go back to early phase of our relationship. When we first got married, I was the guy who would have gone to rooms to go and just bought a room. Like, looks good out of a box. All matches. Yeah, let's go check the box. And I'm happy because it all goes together. And you were earlier on, I remember you went to. Into a flea market and you bought a coat or like a chair. We got one couch from Linda's place. I'm like, nothing goes together. Is this normal? You're like, yeah, that's how you design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it took me a minute to like get over the idea of like the shop out of the box component of it. Well, so I'm not saying the aesthetic is there, but now I like it. Now it's like totally get it. Like having things that are cousins with each other is better than having things that are, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's not how you design. It just can elevate and make a spot look richer if things work together but aren't twinning. Because when it's all the exact same, from four to five pieces of furniture, it just cheapens it because, you know, you got it as a set. And for whatever reason that looks. Because we know that's discounted right then curating pieces of furniture, which is suppose

[A]

it was probably at one point considered high end, high end because it was like everyone had mismatching stuff or like a set. We're actually going to take that bet that all the high end stuff were sets back in the. That's why it was white.

[B]

Like 80s. It was all sets, 80s vibes where it was more modernized and like they brought in the acrylics and the glass top tables and I would say probably even that was the vibe. Whereas then the 90s happened and it was like super traditional.

[A]

Do you know something that. I mean, we, we've. I think you have done this, but we need to explore it on some of the really good pieces we have is reupholstering. Do you know my grandfather. But you know, my grandfather was a reupholster or was a. That's not a. He wasn't upholsterer.

[B]

Stanley.

[A]

No, Fred. My mom's dad. That's.

[B]

Mom's dad's name is Fred.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I thought her brother's name. Friend.

[A]

Sorry. That is Lawrence. Good Lord. I'm just. There it is. Sorry, Grandpa. Lawrence was his name. So yeah, Lawrence was an upholster. Look at me. I know, I know you're feeling. He was a lumberjack and he got his front of his foot cut off by a runaway saw. So he lost the front of his foot.

[B]

I remember this.

[A]

So during the work rehabilitation thing, they basically trained him up on a trade and he was an upholster. He had these like hands that were like. I'm telling you, it Was. No, he passed away when I was probably five or six. But from what I remember was like his hands were like, they were like leather works. I mean he was just the strongest.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

Oh yeah. It's insanely strong hands.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because he would stretch things with his hands and work with a lot of leather and upholstery and apparently he was. My grandmother said he wasn't the best business person because he would always do

[B]

swaps with people, like trades.

[A]

He would. And he. Because he was like, he was really super kind guy. And if people were struggling on money, he did a lot of repholstering for bars and he didn't drink. So when he passed away they found like all this alcohol that he didn't drink, but they would want to give it to him and it was a form of payment.

[B]

Yeah, that's cute.

[A]

Anyway, but, but there is. I mean there's so many weird thing is with like manufacturing now there's some like disposable pieces. Like not saying Wayfair is all crap, but some of the stuff is lower end. If you, you know the things you buy in Amazon. Some stuff not. All right.

[B]

How dare you.

[A]

I'm not saying that's it. Because it's a price. It's a price point that meets a trend. Like if you have a very.

[B]

A lot of Amazon in our home. That's right.

[A]

There's some pretty good stuff we have.

[B]

I know. Thank you.

[A]

But forehand stuff is high end. That stuff is well built. So like that's the stuff that if anything you do is like. Like, I think that's a better sustainable way of doing it. To update it, use upholstery and. Sorry, I didn't mean to sidebar that we're sidebarring.

[B]

That's fine. Is there something. I like this question. Is there something in your house you secretly hate, but tolerate because you love me?

[A]

Hate is not the. I wanted a golf simulator in our playroom.

[B]

Okay. We're not tolerated.

[A]

I was told. I was told no. And I'm still a little salty about it. So I hate.

[B]

This is fresh.

[A]

I hate the fact that I can't put a golf simulator inside my house.

[B]

I hate that. I want a tennis court and it's probably not going to happen.

[A]

That's insane. A call sim. They're not. I mean, what that's like. I figured out a way to do it on a budget.

[B]

I don't want a golf simulator in the kids playroom, Mike. I don't want to do in the garage.

[A]

That's a family room.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hence, I'm part of the family.

[B]

We're moving on.

[A]

No, the, there is one part of our house that I can't stand.

[B]

I know what it is.

[A]

The stairs, okay. That protrude into our kitchen. And there's nothing we can do about it because it was in the original build.

[B]

Yeah. It's like structural. It's a whole massive staircase.

[A]

The only thing that I look at, I'm like, why didn't you make that choice?

[B]

And then our neighbor.

[A]

It's not the right word.

[B]

Our neighbor Greg comes by who's like gigantic, and he's like, oh, man, I hate this thing. And he does it just to tick Mike off. He'll like, pat it.

[A]

I don't hate it. It's just an interesting design.

[B]

You pass under that thing with a foot to spare.

[A]

Yes, ma', am.

[B]

I do.

[A]

I do.

[B]

We don't need to move it.

[A]

Yeah, but if I jumped, I'd hit my head because I got good hops. I've seen it. I'm just never know if I'm going to get really happy one day and break my neck because I jumped there. And then you're gonna be like, this is awful.

[B]

Your tombstone over he. He died from the thing he hated. Literally broke his.

[A]

No, it's not hate. What about you? What is if there's one structural like here's things. I don't hate none of the design. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're blessed. Our house is gorgeous. It's silly to to complain about little things like that because it is a, it's a. I don't very blessed in where we have. I, I, I don't know. I mean, if there's. Because you've designed everything, so why would you hate it, right?

[B]

I don't hate it. The only thing that I wish I could do is add on a closet to my office, like a big storage closet. But we can't or we'll have to put sprinkler heads in our house.

[A]

Cost restrictive.

[B]

So that's like the one thing where I'm like, dang it, storage closet. But no, I love our house.

[A]

Yeah. There's, there's something to be said. There's something amazing about hoas and it does help people have common collective be, I guess beauty. And then there's another thing about it is it's like, this is my house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's my land. I own this. Like, why is everyone telling me what to do? It's the weird thing. Were you and I just talking about like property taxes. I told you, no one ever really owns their house.

[B]

I don't want to talk about this. It makes me sad when you say it like that.

[A]

Hey, if you stop paying taxes, it's getting taken from you. The government's taking it.

[B]

Yeah, but we bought it.

[A]

Right, but they get to tax it.

[B]

So could. Is there a world where if we don't pay property taxes, we could just pick up our house?

[A]

Because they take the land, you pay property tax.

[B]

What if we hoisted it up in the air?

[A]

I mean, I guess you could do that.

[B]

Or any air taxes.

[A]

My aunt moved her house.

[B]

Where did she move it to?

[A]

Like she moved it like several miles, literally. Why talk to him bad about it. And when you do it. Because they love the house. Yeah, you ask. They move their house. I don't remember why. I can't remember.

[B]

It was like the house they live in now. No, I was like, how the heck. That's a massive house. How would they move that?

[A]

The house is cool. They live in right now. It's an older house.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, but you. What was that, man?

[B]

You inhaled spit. I've done it a lot.

[A]

Wasn't spit. You and her have the similar aspect that you like older homes with. With a lot of walls. Walls and. And. And windows. Organic character. Character. Just based on the fact of the way it's designed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whereas. Yeah.

[B]

I have a fun game.

[A]

I want to do a fun game.

[B]

I have a fun game for us.

[A]

Dude, I want to do a fun game.

[B]

The game is we are essentially doing an intro for a show that will be on HGTV and we have to go every other word to make. To make the intro.

[A]

How long is this going to be the introduction?

[B]

Until it feels right to.

[A]

Until it actually. Do we have a name and title for it?

[B]

Nope. We're gonna do it right now.

[A]

The title and then description ready. Introducing our new TV show that includes TV equipment and people who renovate things such as two words.

[B]

Smush them together. Homes and sheds and garages and playhouses. Not doghouses.

[A]

It's going to be the best and worst and mind blowing design show that you have ever seen today and ever and will ever.

[B]

It's. It will star Jennifer Todrick.

[A]

That's two words. Jennifer and Mike and Gary who will be a head guest designer. Tune in next Wednesday at 2am because that's the cheapest and least expensive time. Thanks.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Sounds like a fun show.

[B]

I'd watch it.

[A]

What's it called? The title is wow. That's says wow.

[B]

Wow. Tune in and watch wow. A new he tv show series at 2am on Wednesdays.

[A]

I can't wait. That's an announcement, guys. That was actually pre planned. We are now launching a new show called WOW. 2am on Wednesday is at HETV, starring me, Jen and Gary and Gary's head designer, which is guest designer. Guest design. It's going to be incredible. We do everything except doghouses, which is what the irony is, is that our dog designs tune in.

[B]

We're gonna get sued.

[A]

No, that's all. That's disclaimer.

[B]

That's fake.

[A]

All that is fake. This is satire.

[B]

It was good.

[A]

Well done.

[B]

That was really good. Okay, what do you think our biggest disagreement is when it comes to like designing things in our own home?

[A]

Currently it's the bar.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

It's just because that's a weirdo space.

[B]

It's a weird space and I'm exhausted talking about it. And I also don't care a lot about it, which is why I've totally. I told Courtney I'm using a friend who is an interior designer. I'm gonna have her guy build the cabinets. And I had a whole design that I sent to her. And then I text her the other day and I'm like, hey, we're gonna change the entire layout.

[A]

Well, it's just. Yeah, I rendered it and it was. It was just a. I mean, it's not bad. It's one of those things where it's just. I. I want this one again. I'm. I just kind of wanted to have something that's layered and matches the rest of the design.

[B]

Hold up, let's take this a layer back. Mike and I actually have extremely different design aesthetics. We do.

[A]

We don't.

[B]

You would be in a new massive open layout.

[A]

Not anymore.

[B]

I've changed you.

[A]

I'd have a golf simulator in my house.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what I would have.

[B]

That's it. We're done.

[A]

But I don't know. You have changed my opinion. I do like more. I like the. I like the spaces that we have. I like the fact that it's, you know, I. There is one thing to be said about having a. The kitchen with the, with the main. This living area that I do think there's something nice about that because you can kind of have interaction with the family and things like that. Yeah. Because it goes down. That is one part where I like about it. Whereas our old house, it didn't. We didn't have that in there, which was actually also kind of cool.

[B]

I like that too.

[A]

It's like your grandmother's house. Who is completely separate room. Right. Like my mom's house. Completely separate room. I like it, yes. Being a little more open. But I do like delineation of spaces. I think the walls add detail. And the one thing that you. Which I think is very wise is that you find a purpose for every room. And it's not just using the space to just fill in to have something. You're not going to live into it. You find a reason to have that space and make the most of it.

[B]

Right. Like, my thing is, is if we have this space in our house, you have either already paid for that space in your house or you're paying a mortgage monthly for that space in your house. Try. Why are we not using these spaces every day or at least every other day? And so that's why our formal dining room is our craft room, our mahjong room, our game room, our playroom, of course, gets used every single day. I'm trying to think. There's not a single room that doesn't get walked in every single day.

[A]

I do have one thing at our house that I can't stand. That thing was the thing. No, it's the. It's the kitchen. It's our little kitchenette. The table inside our kitchen because we eat at the. The countertop. And it's a real nice countertop that our whole family can sit on it. That's actually where we sit. The window seat was built about 6 inches too high. So the table is for the. Like, it has like one inch that the kids. It is fine. It's not one inch. Maybe it's two, three inches. It's like this.

[B]

Well, me, the kids and I can fit our thighs in between the table. For me, it's definitely like a tight squeeze. Like my thighs are being.

[A]

It made sense when we had toddlers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now it's that table. Toddlers, Toddlers.

[B]

One Todd.

[A]

T O T T L E R S. Toddlers, Toddlers.

[B]

Toddler, toddler.

[A]

You toddle. Toddler, Todd. Todd.

[B]

Like Todd Drake.

[A]

Toddler, Todd. ER it.

[B]

Okay. And with that, thank you so much for listening this week. Sorry for the hiatus. We got.

[A]

This is fun.

[B]

This is fun.

[A]

Enjoy these questions.

[B]

I feel like we could do another segment just with certain around design and the show because that was fun and I have a ton more that I didn't even get to.

[A]

Let's do it then.

[B]

Part two coming next week.

[A]

Now we don't have to plan. I love it.

[B]

I actually.

[A]

Great. Let's go.

[B]

Well done.

[A]

Okay, should we bring in a guest star?

[B]

This one Gary.

[A]

I mean, you read my mind.

[B]

Guest host. What was it? We can call him.

[A]

It was the guest. The guest Design head.

[B]

Yes, Head guest host.

[A]

Head guest host. The head guest.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Design host.

[B]

If y' all have any topics you wish for Mike and I to cover, you can email you, me and Mike podcastmail.

[A]

Com.

[B]

Again, that is all spelled out. You, me and mike, gmail.com. you can leave us a voicemail. You can leave a topic you like to cover, you can leave us nice feedback. Feel free to leave us a rating if you wish. You know, the five stars are so nice. It's like a little gift to us. We appreciate it.

[A]

So much better than the ones, but they're better, generally speaking.

[B]

But until then, we will see you guys next week. Bye, guys.

[A]

Thanks, guys.

[B]

Sam,