Ep. 219: Influencer Fatigue

Summary

Podcast Summary: You, Me & Mike – Ep. 219: Influencer Fatigue

Release Date: April 22, 2026
Hosts: Jenn and Mike Todryk
Podcast by: Thirteen Media

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Episode Overview

This episode of "You, Me & Mike" zeros in on the growing phenomenon of “influencer fatigue”—the collective sense of exhaustion among audiences (and some influencers themselves) about influencer culture, sponsored content, and the changing landscape of social media. Jenn and Mike share their personal perspectives, explore why things feel different—sometimes uncomfortable—for long-time creators, and get honest about the complexities, joys, and criticisms of the influencer industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up, Health Updates & Sleep Talk

• Conversational opening: Jenn jokes about their new jingle and playful banter, setting the casual tone.
• Jenn discusses lingering health issues (a cough from March) and how their sleep habits have changed as they've aged.
• Mike talks about overcoming his chronic snoring with a dental appliance—offers a shoutout to his sleep dentist and emphasizes how proper sleep transformed his well-being.

[08:21] Jenn: "I even said to him once, I was like, thank you so much for doing this for me. Because a lot of husbands don't..."

• They riff about the challenges of prioritizing personal health and sleep as they’ve gotten older.

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2. Media Misinformation & Misreporting

• Jenn addresses a recent People.com article that misrepresented her comments about her HGTV show and production experiences.

[10:18] Jenn: "People wrote an article ... everything was fine except there was like small bits of misreporting."

• She clarifies her positive experiences with RTR Productions and frustration with clickbait or AI-generated news.
• The couple discuss the prevalence of fake stories and doctored images, and the difficulty of correcting misinformation once it spreads online:

[13:12] Jenn: "How are you allowed to take my image in an AI, put me in a hospital bed, and say I'm hospitalized?"

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3. The Reality of Being an Influencer

The Evolution of the Social Media Industry

• Jenn expresses discomfort with the label “influencer,” how her hobby-turned-career differs from today’s standards, and acknowledges that the term now carries stigma:

[17:38] Jenn: "...I felt like I got slapped with a job title that I didn't know I was signing up for."

• She reminisces about her early, more authentic days, before Instagram became "all ads" and creators began chasing virality and trends ("algorithm chasing").
• Mike offers perspective on generational shifts, the rise of content creation as a first-choice career for kids, and the impact of algorithm-driven content.

[21:16] Mike: "When people start to look at things that if you want authenticity and it's your job to do authenticity, how can you be authentic if you're only doing—it's a hard balance."

Algorithm Pressure & Loss of Originality

• Hosts lament sameness and fatigue in influencer content as platforms reward trends over originality.
• Discussion of how copying trending sounds/audios diminishes individual creativity but "works" for engagement.

[22:41] Jenn: "So it's incentivizing people to not [be] original."

• Both note that earlier smaller, more personal Instagram felt safer and more creative, but the current landscape is saturated and more transactional.

Transparency and Ethics in Partnerships

• The hosts debate the ethics of sponsored content, why “#ad” disclosures both help and hurt trust, and how inauthentic or concealed ads erode audience confidence.
• Jenn explains her selectivity with partnerships and clarifies she “walks the walk”—only promoting products she actually uses and loves.

[29:15] Jenn: "...the whole time I've done this job, I've really had to be very intentional with, like, things I want to participate in in my industry and things I don't want to participate in."

• Mike draws a comparison between influencers and professions like dentists—any work has gray areas and actors who may be driven by profit over service (discussion about upcharging in dental practices).

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4. Influencer Fatigue: What It Means & What’s Next

Repetitive Content & Why Audiences Are Tapping Out

• Jenn explains that “influencer fatigue” is real: followers are tired of inauthenticity, constant ads, staged family content, and the monetization of every moment.
• She highlights the discomfort of being lumped in (as a reputable creator) with the problematic side of the industry.

[49:32] Jenn: "But like it kills me because I'm lumped into that. And that's what I hate about that."

• They discuss the challenge for influencers who still want to create authentically in a space that increasingly rewards spectacle and sameness.

Algorithm Addiction & Platform Shifts

• Conversation about TikTok vs. Instagram, shifting user bases, and how each platform mimics features to retain creators and audiences.
• The hosts observe how platforms now provide tools and information specifically to help creators chase engagement, which further accelerates the fatigue phenomenon.

[40:30] Jenn: "It's kind of crazy that it's like now they're like, fueling it to where we're encouraging everyone to become a creator, everyone to become an influencer."

Brand Deals, Political Influence, & Motivations

• Discussion of how brand partnerships birthed the influencer economy and how even political campaigns now pay creators for endorsements—sometimes without adequate disclosure.

[44:12] Mike: "There are plenty of influencers that are paid to promote politicians."

• Jenn tells stories of creators doing “anything” for a deal, and the internal check she feels to remain intentional and selective.

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5. Protecting Authenticity, Boundaries & Community

• Hosts stress the need to curate your feed for mental health: if someone’s content causes negative feelings, unfollow or mute ("show less of this").
• Conversation about influencer parenting, kid privacy, and the ethical responsibilities of creators not to exploit their children for views or profit.

[33:14] Jenn: "So many people use their cute kids to do, like, reels and ads and because it gets views showing kids, babies all get puppies."

• Both reflect on how they've handled family privacy and why they choose not to share as much of their children online as they once did.

Jenn’s Approach & Community Appreciation

• Jenn explains her commitment to authentic, joyful content, her “slow TV” approach, and that she'd rather have fewer, engaged followers than chase trends for hollow growth.

[31:16] Jenn: "I would change a stinking thing on how I evolved. I'm very happy that I did it for four years … for nothing. Because it is the longest single thing I've ever done in my whole life that I didn't give up on because I still love it."

• Appreciates a community of followers who “get” her, noting they’re kind and supportive:

[55:45] Jenn: "I really have gotten. God has treated me so well in this space and I have attracted super, super kind people…"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jenn [17:38]: "I felt like I got slapped with a job title that I didn't know I was signing up for."
• Mike [21:16]: "If you want authenticity and it's your job to do authenticity, how can you be authentic if you're only doing [what] the algorithm rewards?"
• Jenn [22:41]: "It's incentivizing people to not [be] original."
• Jenn [29:15]: "I've really had to be very intentional with, like, things I want to participate in in my industry and things I don't want to participate in."
• Jenn [33:14]: "So many people use their cute kids to do, like, reels and ads and because it gets views…"
• Mike [44:12]: "There are plenty of influencers that are paid to promote politicians."
• Jenn [55:45]: "God has treated me so well in this space and I have attracted super, super kind people."

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Important Timestamps

• [10:18]: Addressing misreporting and AI-generated stories
• [17:38]: Jenn describes her discomfort with the influencer label and generational shift
• [21:16]: Mike on authenticity, algorithm, and evolution of content
• [29:15]: Jenn on selectivity with sponsorships and authenticity
• [33:14]: Discussion of ethics around featuring children and authenticity
• [40:30]: Platforms feeding the creator economy and culture
• [44:12]: Rise of political influencer deals
• [49:32]: Jenn’s reflection on being unfairly lumped with problematic industry trends
• [55:45]: Community appreciation and blessings of a kind audience

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, honest, and self-aware.
• Relatable humor and vulnerability (Jenn pokes fun at herself; Mike comforts, challenges, and grounds the discussion).
• Willingness to be introspective about their own roles and uneasy about industry-wide trends.
• Emphasis on community gratitude and encouragement for listeners to take care of their social media diets.

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Final Thoughts

The episode weaves together personal anecdote, industry critique, and audience empathy. Jenn opens up about the identity crisis of being an “influencer” in a world that’s increasingly skeptical, while Mike provides real-world context and a call to focus on joy, authenticity, and intentional consumption. For those feeling overwhelmed with social media or disillusioned by influencer culture—or wondering what it’s like from the inside—this episode offers a candid, nuanced perspective.

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Next: Season finale airs next week; short summer break follows.

Transcript

[A]

Let's start out with the new jingle that we made.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Ready?

[B]

We did not talk about this. We did.

[A]

You want to start out with the new jingle? This is like, I guess we're wrapping up the season pretty soon. We only got a couple episodes left. Right. So let's introduce our theme song. Ready?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Ready? Three and four. You, me, and Mike. You, me, and Mike. There you go. That's it.

[B]

Thought we were gonna, like, do something funny.

[A]

No, that's it. That's the entire jingle.

[B]

Horrible. I thought we were gonna do, like, you know, on Saturday Night Live. The thing, the skit I love is where you try to say the exact same thing as the person who's in front of you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, like, Kristen Wiig used to do that one. Mike and I are actually pretty good at it. We'll do it in front of the kids.

[A]

Yeah. I think we're gifted. I'm.

[B]

I'm better.

[A]

If there's one thing that God's given us. Yeah. Is the ability to copy each other with voices. I don't know.

[B]

I can't do the voices like you can.

[A]

Well, not the voices, but the song.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Predict what I'm going to say. Ready? Go. I'm going to say something right now. Happy? See, you got it. Do it again. Love you.

[B]

My husband is amazing.

[A]

I didn't even have to say that.

[B]

Well, I'm good at copying. That's what we figured out is I'm better at copying you versus you copying me.

[A]

What are we talking about today?

[B]

Everyone's listening. Like, what is.

[A]

What is happening?

[B]

I do want to preface this of. I got some kind of like, respiratory thing before spring break. So first week of March, and we are now sitting at what, April 10th. And I'll still cough on occasion. That's going to be really annoying. I'm sorry. But it's going to happen because I'm talking a lot right now, so I'll try to be like. But it's been like over a month and I have this lingering.

[A]

Like, mine took forever to get away.

[B]

I think I. Bronchitis.

[A]

Proper English. But I said it.

[B]

I think I have bronchitis.

[A]

I think it led into it because mine took. Because remember I. I had that. I thought it started with allergies and then it turned into some sort of respiratory thing, I think. From the allergies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it was like that cough. And especially at night when the post nasal drip comes down and you just like feel like you're choking. That's probably. Probably is bronchitis. But there's really nothing you can do about it. You get a steroid shot maybe, and

[B]

I need to do.

[A]

You just gotta, like. But you gotta let your body heal on. It's the only thing you can. You.

[B]

You had the night time way worse than I ever did. I never had, like, coughing attacks at night.

[A]

It's all winning at night too. It was annoying.

[B]

He had to go in a guest room a couple nights because I was like, I am going on four hours. Because it wasn't your fault. You aren't doing on purpose.

[A]

No, I was. I was doing a purpose. I wanted to see how you could operate with less leave. I just wanted to see if that. Actually, I was documenting it. We had a documentary crew in the house seeing how you would react. And it was really. And it. And yeah, we've proven that sleep deprivation does impact the way that you makes you a monster.

[B]

That was proven through me. No, I don't think I was horrible, but I did tell him. I'm like, mike, you tonight, you're away, dude. I have to get some sleep. I'm pretty good now. About fighting for myself.

[A]

It was only I. Only it was like one. I think it was two times.

[B]

Only two nights. But you stand up for your sleep. I wish I stood up for my sleep. And in like, the height of the filming and being stressed, I think I stand up for my sleep now that I'm getting older and like, I'm sure a lot of y' all can relate. It's like the older you get. I've always been able to function beautifully on six hours of sleep. That was like my creme de la creme. In fact, if I got more than seven, I'd be really, like, groggy and like, even tight. More tired. You know this. And so I did six to six and a half hours was like perfection. It probably wasn't healthy for me, but that's what I felt my best at. And. And now if I get under 7, maybe because I have aura ring and it tells me I'm in sleep debt. It's like I'm like three hours in sleep debt. And they're like, why don't you take a nap today? And I'm like, I can't take a nap today.

[A]

No time.

[B]

But I stand up for my sleep now that I'm sure.

[A]

And I think sleep is relative to the person. Not. I mean, the reality actually is not every person needs.

[B]

You need way more than me. My mom needs a lot too.

[A]

Some. I mean, no. I mean, I depends on What? I don't know if I need more. You say that, but I, but we get about the exact same amount of sleep. I don't know why you think I need more than you.

[B]

Because in the pat. Well, here's, this is what's tricky.

[A]

I have a harder time getting up in the morning. Just in general. I've always been that way. My body's and has a, has a natural nights like circadian rhythm. I get more energy in the evening. Always have. Yeah, it's always been the name. I'm not the person that wakes up like, let's go. Time for the day. I wish I was, but I'm not. I'm like, oh, gosh, let's get up, let's go. Like, I gotta force myself out. It's not until you get that, that first cup of coffee do you know what?

[B]

Not is not fair though. And I've realized it literally like this year, which is so dumb, I should have realized it a long time ago. But I also Forget you are 12 years ahead of me. So like, you will need more sleep as I get older. Just like I said, I need more. People don't sleep.

[A]

They get up at like three in the morning.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, but look at my mom. My mom still goes to bed late and gets, She'll, My mom is, is late 70s, right? Yeah, she will.

[B]

I'm not trying to like, call you old.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I'm just saying. But you're ahead of me. And like, my mom still gets up

[A]

at like 5 in the morning sometimes for, for she takes an hour to get ready and then she dries into work and still does hair.

[B]

Yeah, but she doesn't stay up till 12:30 watching company retreat like we do. Honey, it's different. She goes about eight. Come on.

[A]

That early?

[B]

She told me she goes.

[A]

She's busy. Maybe she doesn't.

[B]

She goes to bed early.

[A]

My mom's always gotten up with the cracking on like, like really early. Yeah, look, you can, you're trying to date, you know.

[B]

Why are we talking about this?

[A]

I don't know. But I can tell you one thing about sleep that's been a game changer. Huh? The snoring thing. A long time ago. I don't know if we talked about this in the past, but I, I, we have.

[B]

Yeah, but you can talk about it again.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Mike used to be a chronic, like, loud snorer probably.

[A]

I'd also wake myself up, which was

[B]

annoying, like not breathing. Oh, no, that's not. Yeah. It was more like you would choke, and then you thought your heart was stopping.

[A]

That did happen. I'd have panic modes where I'm like, oh, 91 1.

[B]

I wasn't gonna out you.

[A]

Well, you wake up and you're like. So I. I don't know what it was as a way I would sleep. I would like, and I would pinch. It was that old mattress we had. And for whatever reason, I have a tendency to. I'll roll over and I'm sleeping on my side. And then I. I don't know. It was like, multiple times over, like a month. I would totally pinch my nerve, and my arm would be dead. Arm, like, was like, oh, my gosh. And you're waking up from sleep, and I'm like, you can't even control. I can't feel it. I feel like everything is like, yeah. And then you kind of panic a little bit.

[B]

You're a little dramatic, too. So it's just a perfect storm.

[A]

I'm not dramatic.

[B]

You did say. I've never say, call 91 1.

[A]

But then I stopped myself. I'm like, wait, never mind. I don't know. Like, I'm in. Like, I can't feel it. And I have all these things. I have some medical knowledge, and I know that numbness and things are part of it. Of. Especially your left side. I'm like, oh. And you're. But the thing is, you're also waking up in the dead asleep, and if you don't have an arm and your arm is now paralyzed.

[B]

You did have an arm. It was there.

[A]

Well, I couldn't feel it. Okay. It felt like a. Like a sausage hanging from the side of my. It's like.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It was just dead arm.

[B]

I get it. You're freaked out. I give you that. Because you don't wake up.

[A]

Point of this. Point is this. I did a sleep study. I don't have sleep apnea. Yay. Go, Mike. No sleep apnea. But I do have a snoring thing is. Dude. From obstruction. Based on where my anatomy is set, my soft pallet in the back of my throat falls back when I'm on my back.

[B]

This is riveting.

[A]

Creates a vibration, which is a lot of people like, because a lot of, you know. You know, sometimes people that are sick that are really large, they have a lot more opportunities for sleep apnea. You know, I'm not really in any category if it's just an anatomical thing, like my brother as well. He's normal, right. So it just has to do with where your body is. So I went, did that. I didn't. They're like, you don't qualify for that. But they said, why don't you go see a sleep dentist? And I'm like, what is that? And a sleep dentist is basically somebody who specializes in sleep and they make an appliance. They do another sleep study on you. And they made an appliance that pulls the bottom of your jaw forward like this. Like this while you're sleeping. It's literally like his mouth guard pulls your bottom, your mouth forward and prevents your tongue and soft palate from dropping so you stay open and it doesn't obstruct. And it's been game changer, like, legitimately, probably one of the better things. And I really do think I. I mean, I wish I'd have done that five years before.

[B]

I even said to him once, I was like, thank you so much for doing this for me. Because a lot of husbands don't. They're kind of like, it's not. My. Mike had a moment where he was like, not. It didn't. He didn't seem to care that much. But I got to the point where I was like, either you're sleeping in a different room or you're doing something because I can't sleep. And then if you get mad at me for waking you up to tell you to stop snoring, you woke me up first. Like, it was really infuriating. And then Mike, when I said, thank you for wearing that, it looks super uncomfortable. You were like, I'm doing this also to get me. Like, this is way better.

[A]

It's. It changed. Like, I would wake up sluggish, like, almost all the time. Like, what is. Like, you just kind of. Because you don't realize you're. When you have completely disruptive sleep and you're like, kind of waking yourself up, you're not getting into the right, you know, right Alpha waves that you need for. For sleep. So you're not really getting rested. Your REM's never going into the time you want. You just stay unrested despite sleeping the, like, yeah, eight hours or seven hours or six hours or whatever it may be. Your body's never really resetting. And it's. It was a game changer and helps a lot of different things. So shout out to my buddy, Dr. Kyle Smith, who's local here.

[B]

A lot of. A lot of women ask on Instagram about that.

[A]

That's why I, like, I think it's Greenville McKinney Sleep Dentistry. He literally is super. The guy's awesome anyway but point is is they it's. It's to me it's one of those ones where I. I wish I done it years ago now the only it does it pulls your jaw forward so like you have to actually do these exercises. I went back and did it because my jaw was starting to tighten up the tmj, the. The muscle over time but I've been wearing mine for five, six years now. It pulls forward and you can tighten up and you just have to do. And once I learned the exercise it actually back to normal now. Yeah yeah. So but worth it.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Go get it done. We didn't so that's our entire. Thanks guys for joining us.

[B]

We didn't plan on talking about that but something I did want to. I did want to talk about is I wanted to address something super quick. People.com published an article.

[A]

Oh geez. We're talking about this.

[B]

I guess they listened to our podcast where I said or no they didn't. They grabbed something from one of my Instagram stories. It was just a static where I said I think I walked away from the show at the perfect time. Just talking about how my kids were little enough to where they know that I did that. And Vaughn and Berkeley will have some memories but like I don't want their whole life to feel like a set essentially or like they're part of a set anyways. It was very short and sweet. It wasn't anything crazy. But people wrote an article. I don't know why. They just didn't reach out. But they just published an article about it and everything was fine except there was like small bits of like misreporting. And one of the things they said was from listening on the podcast, I believe I had said in the past working with a certain production company was like a deal breaker to where I was going to leave. And so they reported that I never. Or something like I. I need to look at the article again. But like I didn't, like I didn't trust my production companies I worked with. And so I just want to say on the record, I Season two and season three, RTR was the production company. It's a women led and ran production company and they supported me so much. I actually interviewed production companies before season two and I chose them myself. And so huge shout out to RTR Productions. I felt super supported in that space, which in that industry support can almost feel transactional in that space. And I felt like they genuinely did care and I loved working with them. So Anyways, I don't talk, I really don't talk about like well there's articles because most of them are all wrong. But like the hospital one I shared a couple months ago because it's funny, like I was in a hospital bed.

[A]

Did you know we're getting divorced?

[B]

Yeah, we've been divorced. No, I've never even talked about that. There's so much false which we're not getting divorced.

[A]

That's not real.

[B]

There's so much falsity with all the articles. I don't talk about it because I don't even want to bring attention to it. But with that one I was like I don't want that out there in case they were to read that. And I just don't know why people didn't reach out and ask for an interview. I've done interviews with them before.

[A]

Yeah, it was on the.com 1, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it was probably an article written by somebody else that they picked

[B]

up or like AI Right. Where they just like half listen and then they like write it.

[A]

I don't know, I mean it's. I imagine a lot of the articles are written by AI now that just kind of get farmed out and then hope to get pick up maybe. I don't know if that's the case or not. I actually don't have any data points but it seems like that could be the case cuz there's so many. Like that one picture of you in the hospital bed which is not even a real picture of you.

[B]

No, they AI'd it.

[A]

It's completely AI. And I was like yeah, it looks pretty good though.

[B]

Like I had a friend from tennis shoot me the picture.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And been like this is pro. I know this is probably fake, but are you okay? And I'm like in, in and out line trying to get a cheeseburger and I'm like. And it says I've been hospitalized but it never tells you what it is because they want clickbait and so when you click on it then they get paid.

[A]

That's right. It's not real stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of falsities if you, you want to get the real deal. Just it doesn't follow Jen on Instagram.

[B]

It doesn't seem like they know what's going on. Well and like I know mine is so minor compared to like a list celebrities. Oh like but like how is that legal? How are you allowed to do that? How are you allowed to just make up the story. How are you allowed to take my image in an AI, Put me in a hospital bed and say I'm hospitalized?

[A]

Not. But how do you enforce it? I know you're really. You're not allowed to because you can slander and you can create defamation and things like that could be. You could be held liable for things like that. Which are. Which. But the thing is, a lot of these articles, some of that one. I don't even think a couple of those articles are us based, to be honest with you.

[B]

No, they're ran if you click on, like the Facebook groups that are like Friends of HGTV stars or no, Demo Renault. If you click. They're ran by like, men in a different country. It's like, not here. And so I think the other thing that bugged me a little bit and then the one that bugged me the most, I think it was the first article I ever, like, brought to light and was like, this is false. Is that article that got picked up a lot of traction that said, my girls were at that camp that flooded.

[A]

Yo.

[B]

Are you kidding me? Like, they used a horrific event to try to capitalize. And they know I'm in Texas.

[A]

Yeah, it's awful.

[B]

My girls don't go to that camp. They were not at that.

[A]

It's a weird world we're in right now.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And it's a lot of misinformation, malformation, false information, whatever you want to call the things where it's just the amount of. The amount of stuff that's available.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's getting even harder to filter right now because, I mean, look, we are in the world. We've talked about this in the past. I've talked about AI and a lot of these things about where we're going. It is getting. It is getting harder and harder to discern.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's real and what's not real. And I think that's where. I mean, even I've even told. I was talking to Berkeley about that. You're going to go and look online, you're going to see, like, if you see something that doesn't, you know, us, you know our family, you know who we are, you know your mom and dad. Yeah. If it seems fake, it is fake. If it's like, if it makes you question, like, wait, what is this really? Like, believe that, don't believe it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Leave. Believe us. You know, like, you got to come to us. And obviously, even the people, I guess, that follow you, it's like, if you haven't. I mean, it's not like people's getting an exclusive before you're.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like telling you something that's like, that you told your story. Yeah. Talked about on this podcast.

[B]

Correctly.

[A]

I know, but yeah.

[B]

I even listened.

[A]

Well, a lot of. Yeah, a lot of people don't listen to podcast to follow you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's. That's a normal thing. And likewise, a lot of people that only see know you from he tv. So there's some of that audience that. That may get it and it pops up and like, oh, my gosh, are you guys okay? And I've got. Literally people have asked me, is Jen okay? Or, you know, are you. Are you. Are you. You guys struggling in a relationship? I'm like, no. It's all. I just literally laugh. I'm like.

[B]

And I never wear my wedding ring.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

So I just feel the fire. I never have.

[A]

It was the one that was just there. You were in a different dress. They took a picture and put a different dress in you. What was that one? I'm like, oh, that's you also. You also are very well endowed.

[B]

Yes. My mom was like, I've never seen that dress on you. I'm like, I've never seen those boobs on me. Like, totally change my body. And in a gown. But it was my face.

[A]

You were in a gown.

[B]

I know it was like on a reveal day, just in a show.

[A]

But why. Why would they throw you in a gown?

[B]

I don't know. But this conversation is kind of what we're gonna go into for what I wanted to talk about today. I think this is, like, kind of a weird topic for, like, someone like me to talk about, but I want to talk about it because I feel like it's something that's very prevalent right now. And I. It's the whole thing that's going on that's like a influencer fatigue. And it's a weird thing to, like, feel and assess because I've been in the space for a long time and we have to. I think most people would say I'm an influencer. That's. And I used to be like, no, I'm not. And I don't say that anymore because it just makes me look stupid. Like, I am aware that I am in that genre, but I started before it was a word and a job and a thing. And I've seen, like, this crazy evolution of what this hobby and, like, fun outlet has become. And right now, I don't know if you are privy to this because I know you're not like in, you know, you're not in my business with me as far as like hearing what's going on the street with social media and all that. But like in influencer fatigue is like a huge thing right now where people are just over influencers. Like, it's a, it's bad. Like I don't want to be associated with it, but yet it's my job. It's become that because of me starting back in 2015. And it all started with me being a stay at home mom and sharing my story. So I guess my, my, it's, it's such a weird place for me to be in because, like, I feel like I don't relate to like what it's become.

[A]

Right. But you still.

[B]

And I miss what it was in a weird way. But I still do it because I still love it and I still try to do it the way that I've always done it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Okay, well, you just keep doing that right.

[B]

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[A]

We were talking about this, another podcast about like all the kids, what they wanted to be. It was like YouTubers, influencers. Yeah. Content creators. And all these different things that are associated to it as. So as, as people, as generations of people start to grow up on that and they see it and other people kind of like, you were early. You never, I think your perspective is, is you never went in, starting sharing what you loved in your life and the articles and stuff as an intention to be a job around it.

[B]

Well, because it wasn't right. No one was doing it right.

[A]

It was more about creating fun and joy and creating a community and having support. And remember, you started sharing your blogs because you wanted to like, you was decor based more.

[B]

And then also like funny Mom.

[A]

Well, the mom blog. Yeah. But that was, that was in. When you put, when you wrote the one. I was like, you got to share this, Jen. It's hilarious. This is so funny. And I think your original, your original viewpoint was about bringing joy and spreading kind of like creating the community through satire and fun and joy and then design and all the things. We're just kind of sharing the moments and, and it wasn't there to be like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna monetize this, I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna chase the algorithms. It never started that way at all. So it was more about just creating fun content that was in the moment. Right?

[B]

Yeah, it was like it was a hobby.

[A]

But I think as the generation, as the people move into it, they see that as a really viable career. Right. And when people start to look at things that if you want authenticity and it's your job to do authenticity, how can you be authentic if you're only doing. It's a hard balance. And so I think there's a lot of people that are in the industry, in the space that figure out the algorithms. They push out content. Look, some people love or hate Mr. Beast. What it is. He's figure out the algorithm. I can tell you that the guy is an absolute genius. He knows exactly what, what needs to be posted. He has his edits and cuts 1. And the kids used to watch it a while. They don't really watch anymore. But I'd be like watching him like, why is this so fast? Like this is driving me crazy. It's like he. He does a one month production that's cut down to 15 minutes. Right. And but he knows that that's what people want, how they consume content.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I was like man, you could made an entire thing about imagine a full month of production.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'd be like you could have done five so many of us ton of episodes off that. So it's just he knows the way the content. He knows how to drive it. Knows what people wanted to consume content at the time. And I think people do that in the influencer space as well or content creation. Because if your job you considered your person to create content. Well that's telling you exactly what the job is.

[B]

But see that's. And I'm. I'm just shooting the poop here and like being saying everything. I think the only problem with chasing the algorithm is that I think that's part of the problem. And right now feeling originality.

[A]

I agree with that 100 and I do it too.

[B]

I'll see like trending audios and I'm like that's funny. I'll use that. But I always try to like make it my version like different but like it reward the algorithms reward you for doing those trends a million percent. And it's like kind of old. Right.

[A]

Like not a huge trend person like I think the beginner of the trend is like super funny. When you have like I'm like that is hilarious. And some of the challenges are fun. Yeah, they're fun. Yeah those are to me are fun on it. Like it's not meant to be. You know like. But when you're. If the people who start like a. If you. They're the ones that create the voice. Those are the people like those are comedians. These people are funny. These like that's yeah real one. But then when it's like person after you're like okay. You're like.

[B]

But the trends take off.

[A]

I know.

[B]

The trends are the ones that I know go viral. And so people chase that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And so it's incentivizing people to not original. Yes. I think that there's a lot of different things that could be fatigue and it would be. This would be like a really interesting conversation to have like with a live. Like with a live audience. Because people could like weigh in. Because I have a very. I mean I consume content just like everybody else but I am on the other side and so I have my perspective of like the inside of what the industry not not only was but has become because I'm not, I'm not 25 anymore. And so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I've been doing this a long time.

[A]

Your audience, most. Your audience isn't 25 anymore either. Not that they're 25 following you. That's awesome. That's great. Like, I think you should, I do think people of all generations should. If you're going to follow people have. People of influence have been through different place to give you guidance and wisdom. That may not be just your mom or dad. I know that sounds really weird, but if you had a, if you have a person as a teen or young 20 year old, it's like that's probably good to be following somebody who's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the space. But also of a good moral basis. Right. As opposed to just trying to follow fast money. And that's the thing is we're like the young content creators to me, man. That's a, that's a. That's a. It's like anyone who comes into a place of high wealth or, or some of the content is about like. I can't even think of the name. I don't even, I don't even want to name names of people. But there's probably some younger folks. All the kids out there, kids call them kids. What is like driving a Lamborghini and they're teenagers and they're doing it because that's part of the concept.

[B]

Here's the deal. So what's the difference? Why is it bad if someone wants to be an influencer because they make good money, but also surgeons want to be surgeons because they make good money?

[A]

No, sorry, that's a great question.

[B]

But is their intent not to save lives?

[A]

I'll say this. The goal and the hope is I would say I worked in the medical field for a long time. I don't know a single doctor that went into the medical field only to make money. I really don't. That's the one thing I would say about the medical field is because it is a long process. There's the secondary benefit of becoming a physician is that you can come across an opportunity to make a lot of wealth.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But there's a lot of money that goes into early phase. You're usually not into your career until your late 20s, sometimes even mid-30s, if you're going to really high specialty. Right. And then you're paying back the debt. And yeah, there's a high. Especially the surgeons. You can make a ton of money.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I don't their goal. And again, I maybe has a privilege most of the physicians that I've worked with. Money is part of it. It wasn't the only motivating factor. It was about actually taking care of patients.

[B]

I don't think that's it, though, because you can't say that for a fact because you don't know that person's.

[A]

I talked to many of these guys

[B]

that are good friends, but they could lie.

[A]

Many.

[B]

But they could lie.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I think the one difference maybe.

[A]

But I don't. I don't.

[B]

But here's the difference. It's sales. The influencer has the selling component.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

To where if they are selling every single thing that comes across their desk, then people don't believe that what they're saying is true and they're just being paid to say that.

[A]

You know, I guess that the doctors

[B]

don't have that element.

[A]

They do in a dental office. I mean, serious think about that. Or like medical reps. I was talking to my. Literally just going back to. Kyle was talking about some dentists because it's a different model that they have, but there's a lot. Remember that one dentist said you have to get how many. They wanted to give you veneers. Something crazy. At least one dentist told me to get veneers and I got really good teeth. And I'm like, what?

[B]

Yeah. No one's told me to get veneers.

[A]

They told me that my bottom. They're like, you could get great veneers and fix. I'm like, I got really good teeth

[B]

because your teeth are little.

[A]

It was something crazy.

[B]

Like if you had bigger teeth with

[A]

that little mouth, it'd be the. It was like. It is not all. Again, here's the thing is it's not all. There's a ton of great dental office out there that aren't just trying to like shill you for another fluoride treatment. Another. This. Another that. Add a filler, do this. But. But honestly, if they don't have people selling it, then they're not going to make the revenue that they want for their doctors, their office, and it becomes part of the practice. There are.

[B]

Dentists are like influencers.

[A]

They can be. Because if it's a cash, especially a cash pay model, it's totally different.

[B]

Oh, like the guy who said it was going to be $13,000 for me to get an implant wrecked.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Do you remember that?

[A]

Yep. 13. I was like, dude, just like, jen, not a chance. And that's when I sent it to another one of my physicians. Like, you need to get A second opinion.

[B]

Insane.

[A]

You need to have somebody else do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anybody would end up costing, what, 2000 or something like that?

[B]

I don't know. But going back to the space that I'm in, and I don't. I didn't even know if I, like, really wanted to talk about this because it's like bringing negative light to what brings me a ton of joy in what I like doing. But the reason I wanted to talk about it is because the things that I hear or, like, see or people complain about, a lot of it. I feel the same way. Like, everything now is an ad on Instagram.

[A]

Yeah, I think.

[B]

And, like, also there's influencers out there and, like, people even in my demographic and my age. And it's like, kind of disappointing is like, they'll do an ad, but they don't say partner. They don't, like, disclose it. And so then it, like, erodes that trust.

[A]

Sure. Agree with that.

[B]

But then again, it's also on the other side, my perspective, if you put partner like I do for my campaigns, then instantly people question if you're just saying it to get paid, which I know I can't think about that because the people who trust me trust me, and that's amazing. And I shouldn't focus on those. I probably don't trust some people on the Internet that are great people. You know what I mean? Like, we don't always get it right. However, it is this weird thing about the minute you put ad or camp or sponsored or whatever, then people don't think you're being legit. Like, it's like they want to know. You got to tell us. But then when you tell us, we're not going to believe you because you're just getting paid. It's like this weird conflict that might be.

[A]

That might be your perspective because you're on. You know, you do you work as a creator or influencer, whatever you want to call yourself. And by the way, I don't think you like the term influence because you never came out with the intent to just influence people to be like you. I felt like never your intent.

[B]

This is the. The best way to put it. I felt like I got slapped with a job title that I didn't know I was signing up for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it wasn't a job yet. So, like, to TV star, host. I signed up for that. I knew stepping into filming this show, I was going to be labeled as a TV host. Sharing my life and even starting to link things for commissional, commission, revenue, all that. There wasn't a name for it. And it was just Jen on Instagram, like, sharing my life. And so it evolved into, now I have this title. And now the title is somewhat negative in this landscape perspective. And so it's like, I don't want to be associated with the bad parts of it because I'm not trying. Sounds like I'm like, being high and mighty. I'm not. I'm not. But for the whole time I've done this job, I've really had to be very intentional with, like, things I want to participate in in my industry and things I don't want to participate in.

[A]

Well, you're. You are selective about who you work with.

[B]

Extremely.

[A]

And I, I know. I mean, there's been many, many, many opportunities for you to make a lot more money doing this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Than you have.

[B]

Well, people don't know that. And that's not anyone's business.

[A]

But, like, but, but it's. But you've always, you're slow to work with partners. You always balance things out. You've. I mean, I would say the moral compass you have on vetting people we work with, vetting this products, buying everything yourself. If you're trying it out, it's not like, send me a whole bunch of stuff. So, like, it's about.

[B]

Sometimes they do.

[A]

Well, the company might, the company might do that because that's their prerogative.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if you found something on Amazon or American Eagle or wherever, you're like, I love this.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You're like, this is super cool. And this is a great. Just like a friend would tell her friend, like, holy crap, you got to try this. You've started in that mindset. It's like, you're sharing things not because of, like, wanting to make commissions. You're sharing. You started sharing things because you wanted to share cool things that were like, a great deal. Like, this is fun. Right?

[B]

You're saying because I had four years of me sharing things without making a

[A]

single penny, we didn't even know what an affiliation was.

[B]

Yeah, it was very much like part of my genre. I think back now. I've told this story before. I think back now and like, when I first started, I was extremely against making money, even when it started to become a thing because I felt like no one would watch me anyway.

[A]

Well, you felt you, like, you're shilling or selling yourself. Yeah.

[B]

So I would do like a jean try on for American Eagle, and then I just wouldn't link them. And I'd be like, have fun shopping. And like, it was they were like, where do I find oh, all the time?

[A]

And I would sometimes send individual links. I remember you would go through it and be like, you're like, just send the link.

[B]

Link it publicly.

[A]

Yeah, it was just a, like, individual link. You'd send somebody just.

[B]

Now I look back and I'm like, how infuriated.

[A]

A lot of work.

[B]

Like, why did I.

[A]

You're rage baiting people.

[B]

Yeah. Like, why did I do it that way? But I think I do 10, 10 toes on the ground. I feel like I would change a stinking thing on how I evolved. I'm very happy that I did it for four years.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Grinded every day, sometimes two posts a day for nothing. Because it is the longest single thing I've ever done in my whole life that I didn't give up on because I still love it.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

And I'm very adhd. I didn't even keep a job for longer than two years. I'd pivot. And so it showed me that I loved it. This was a creative outlet for me. It brought me a lot of joy. It was fun.

[A]

And you brought, you. You brought and still bring other people joy.

[B]

That's nice that.

[A]

I mean, I. The only reason why I think people follow you is that they trust you. You're authentic, you're fun, and you're just you.

[B]

I don't feel like I'm fun anymore.

[A]

Well, that's for being vulnerable.

[B]

I feel like I don't share, like, our family life as much. It's just a. That's a sad thing that I've kind of had to mourn too. Is like, I know I get DMS all the time of, like, people. And they usually always say it so respectfully. They're like, I totally respect you for, like, not sharing your kids as much in your family life. However, like, 20, 19, 2018, 2020 were like creme de la creme content. Because it felt so safe because it was so small. Like, Instagram was smaller.

[A]

I mean, it really was. It was, but it wasn't.

[B]

But I didn't have the knowledge of, like, predators and like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now it's more talking.

[A]

And also our kids are at the age where, like, you know, our son, even some of our daughter's friends have phones and they have things like that. It's like.

[B]

And I don't want to post anything that, like, could embarrass them.

[A]

Like, with the kids, we don't want to overthink things. And again, you know, you've been very intentional. We've all we both. That. And this one thing is like, you do this never come across from a standpoint of like, exploiting the family or your kids or anything for a. Your own gain. And if you ever felt that way, it's. It's just wrong. It's like a binary thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If there's funny things in the moment, you always ask you, don't you. I've seen you be like, hey, you know, like, you good if I post this. Because if they want it and if they're not, we don't. You know, like, yeah. And they're kids, so you got to respect that. And it's not. And you've been. I mean, I think that's one thing that's great about it. It's like, that's. And I. And I hope people don't do that for fan. Like, if you shouldn't be exploiting your kids.

[B]

And if you want. Oh, honey, don't get me started on that. It's a massive problem. Is it the space? Oh, my gosh. Oh, my. Yes. Like, so many people use their cute kids to do, like, reels and ads and because it gets views showing kids, babies all get puppies.

[A]

Well, we can. That's fine. Yeah. Exploit your dog. That's fine. Go, go. Have at it.

[B]

But your kids. Oh, I listen to a ton of commentary on that. So stuff. That's why I never stepped into YouTubing.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, I guess there's a whole different. Yeah, I guess. Genre of that one. Again, I don't know. But I would go back to the things.

[B]

No, you do know.

[A]

I do. No, no. Well, I would say this. If you said go. I'll go back to my dentist analogy. Most dentists are great. There's a ton. Like, because they're probably. Dentists are listening. Like, I don't do that. Or like, what we got. We have to offer those services because those are legitimately neat. Of course. Like, and I get that this sounds

[B]

like a hater, but I don't know if I would say most influencers are great.

[A]

Well, no, I'm saying. I'm saying some of them are, but on the bad side, the bad ones. The bad ones give the other ones a really bad name. Yeah, right. And it's. It's the same thing as curating your own content if somebody's in there. And you've said this as well, if you're following somebody or following you or whatever. And it really doesn't bring you joy, it brings you anxiety, frustration, jealousy, anything along the emotions that you wouldn't feel as from a fruit of the spirit. You would be like, please unfollow or take a break until you can come back of a clear mind to know that we're here to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bring joy. Right. Or not. It's not necessarily there to make you feel bad. Right.

[B]

And necessarily bringing joy doesn't feed the algorithm.

[A]

No.

[B]

So, like, of course it doesn't. So that's the thing is, like, you,

[A]

you said that about the algorithm. Huge issue. Well.

[B]

And I feel like I've of probably the last, like two or three years. I've definitely moved differently within this job. I definitely have taken more time to like, like, I picked up tennis and I've navigated working a hobby and my workout more into my job. But that naturally also makes me chill a little bit with my job. Not looking at an algorithm. Not okay. Like, if you look on my Instagram, I think I posted like, two things last month. It's like, on my feed. And, like, for people who are in the algorithm and want to go, go. They post every single day. You can see it and they do it. And they have writers who like, script their comedy, which I don't think that's bad. If you're scripting comedy, it's like entertainment. I love some of those.

[A]

I really like scripted comedy is some of my favorite stuff that's on the one, like legitimate scripted stuff. It's funny.

[B]

And this is. I'm like, torn. I, like, don't. I'm not saying any names whatsoever. It is okay for me to have an opinion of, like, content I don't find, of course, enjoyable.

[A]

Wait. No.

[B]

But I don't want to look like I'm talking. Oh, I don't want to look. You're not allowed to have down to, like, other creators. Okay. I don't like it when the content that's pretty popular because Tick tock made it more with a younger demographic is where it's like they're filming the husband and wife, one is filming the other. And it's like you're just getting dropped into their life and you're like, watch me surprise my wife with this or follow us to the doctor. Like, it's just very scripted stage. No, you can tell it's very, like, cheesy scripted. Honey, this is what we're gonna film today. I'm gonna film you talking about such and such, or if you're in a hospital bed and you are going through illness and now we're going to capitalize on it and we're going to Film each other and cry. I think there's like a boundary that we're crossing. Just like YouTube had its moment of like prank wars and stuff where it got. It went too far. This is like five to eight years ago. It's like we're crossing into it now where we're trying to script reality.

[A]

Yeah. Well.

[B]

And it's not real. And so it takes a hit on the authenticity, in my opinion.

[A]

Fun fact. Most reality TV isn't real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's guided. Right. And that's the, the reality of, of the way it works. It's like they'll, you know, selectively edit things to make it be proper, but they still have to have a story arc. And when, you know, we're. We're watching Love on the spectrum. Which is a fun show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I like is. I don't feel like they're. I, I. My opinion. I don't think they're exploiting my gosh, it like the.

[B]

There's so many feel good moments where

[A]

you're like, sad and you think about the family, you think about the life and you think about the joy and the love. Like, there's some really cool things on it. But I, again, I don't think, I hope and I don't think the families would be signing up for it if they felt they were exploiting the people on the spectrum. But the point is, is on the. What it is, is there's still arcs on there. You can tell there's like a cut and you can tell the producer probably said, hey, ask that question. Yeah. Then it cuts back out and it goes in. Because they got to keep things pushing forward. Even on your show, if things were like, hey, Jen, you got to go back and hit this beat real quick. You'd have to. The question if you miss something that they need for, for the arc. Right. That's just, that's just television. So in real reality, that's not real life. Right. Real reality TV isn't real life. And I think, I think that mimicking that is maybe what those vloggers and the Stevens is like trying to mimic. Hit. Hit. The things. The piece. I feel like I'm kind of in there, like. But the reality is, is that's. It's. It's seems invasive to me to watch somebody in a hospital bed if they're really having trauma or problems. That seems fake. And I would be, It's. I would be very disappointed in you if we're trying to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Use or like, bad things.

[B]

I saw a reel of like the kid like, busted his lip open through. With his teeth through it, and he's like, bloody. And they made it into a reel. And I'm like, what are we doing? Why?

[A]

Yeah, that's not nice.

[B]

Like, I feel so strongly about talking against that like, that. I'm not. I don't like that. This is extremely.

[A]

That's part of it.

[B]

So it's too much. Everyone's just trying to. Well, here's the thing.

[A]

What I just say, what you just said is that it's like every. If everyone's fighting for the same amount of eyes and the same amount of views, and if the algorithm benefits, certain things that you even don't like, but you find yourself watching, it becomes like this addictive thing. By the way, Facebook lost a massive lawsuit for creating addictive content.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there's a lot of things going on right now because the algorithm isn't designed and it's public company. Their. Their main goal is to create profits, and to create profits have to get viewership. And it doesn't mean that it's good or bad. It's just what it. Well, actually, it is bad because the. The. It's not about putting net benefit to society out there. It's about net benefit to the. To the company that's doing it. And it's one of the. You know, obviously, Instagram's your primary platform. It's part of that company.

[B]

Do you know when I thought like, doesn't mean.

[A]

But again with it. It's. It's hard to navigate it, I would say.

[B]

I think it's very hard to navigate it. And I know we all have our own perspectives, and I only have my perspective of doing this, but I have, like, over a decade now of, like, years to watch it, how it's become. I'm even trying to think of, like, when it changed, and I think when.

[A]

Tick tock.

[B]

No. Well, I really do. Haley's in here, so I'm gonna throw this question to her and see if she kind of agrees with me. I think for me, it changed, and it made me aware of how many people now are trying to be creators and influencers. Is that we even, like, the head of Instagram updating us weekly and monthly on stuff that only is for creators. Like the algorithm. Right. Like the algorithm and stuff. And I'm like, whoa, I cannot believe on this massive platform, he's literally just putting out information that only feeds influencers. So not even, like, the daily user. That's just.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Well, it's kind of crazy that it's like now they're like, fueling it to where we're encouraging everyone to become a creator, everyone to become an influencer.

[A]

What I think.

[B]

And it's. It's kind of wild to me, right.

[A]

If. If you're doing that to create tools, to create more engagement and the graduate more views and people on that platform. Yeah, that's part of the. That's the business of it.

[B]

It's business. Yeah.

[A]

And it's a tool. And any tool can be used for good or bad, and however you want to do it doesn't really mean it's necessarily bad. The problem is, is when people get engagement through mal content or. Or fake content or AI content or. Which also, it's a whole problem. Like, I'm fatigued from social media in general, just from the amount of AI slop that's out there. Yeah, it's wild. Like, the point where I'm like, AI

[B]

is a whole nother.

[A]

So they're literally my. You know, the things that I watch on social media is basically you and golf content right now. That's like my entire feed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And as funny as you're in the same thing about the ad, the things I trust the most on it, when a. When a Golf ad pops up, it's clearly an ad. I'd be like, oh, that's kind of a cool product. And I'll watch that because I know it's an ad. It's like a commercial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, I don't not trust. And sometimes they're golf creators that are in the ad. That's awesome. I don't. I have no issue with that. That's really cool. Like, fine. Right. It's no problem with that. But those are the things I watch because it's just what it is. And then some comedy reels.

[B]

And yeah.

[A]

Keenan Peele keeps, like, constantly pop up on my feed. Like, literally. It's crazy. So with that being said, it's like, I think the tools are there, but the whole point is for them to gain engagement. My opinion, what I said is, I think, step back and look at it. When things really started shifting was when Tick Tock started engaging. Gen Z really pulled in almost all the people. Tick Tock, or Instagram is a millennial platform. Gen Z, Tick Tock is a. Is a zennial platform. A Gen Z platform, for the most part. Right.

[B]

No, that's generally speaking, statistical.

[A]

Yeah. So. And then. Then you got Facebook and then Instagram is like, oh, crap, we're losing a bunch of stuff here. So then they start taking parts of what tick tock order to create. So they start competing and all the platforms start to look the same, identical. They're analogous to each other and they're going after the same type of content change, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So where Facebook has kind of stayed OG Facebook's just Facebook. Right. I mean which is kind of what it is.

[B]

Hasn't ever changed.

[A]

And that's more of the. It's more Gen X and boomers on. On Facebook. Right. It's like it's funny is that you were the Facebook generation.

[B]

You were, you were on Facebook.

[A]

That was, that was when it was only for college kids.

[B]

Yes. So you've seen I started my blog on Facebook.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's how I like would bring traffic to it. I would hope it would like get good engagement.

[A]

You had the original like Edu where you had to have a.edu only.edu people could sign up for Facebook back in the old days. Right. So you saw it wouldn't be in this like exclusive curated people where you could. You trusted people because it was smaller.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Then it gets bigger and it gets bigger and then the business model changes. It became becomes CNN and Fox News. Engagement content. It's all about engagement content.

[B]

And we have to remember like what got us here. The influencers or content creators didn't make this a job. It's the brands when they started going, hold on, we don't have to pay $3 million for a seasonal spot on national television. We can play pay this girl X amount depends on followers. Countless. I don't know a certain amount, a fraction of the price. And she has an audience that's built in just to her that will listen to her. And so remember like the influencers didn't create this. It was brands and businesses. And it's not wrong or bad as long as the person. That's what makes it a job.

[A]

Do you want to know something?

[B]

As long as they're being honest, you

[A]

want to know something even scarier?

[B]

What?

[A]

This is a fact.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And there are plenty of influencers that are paid to promote politicians.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Fact.

[B]

Yeah. No, they've. People post it. They post it in their stories.

[A]

Correct. And they don't disclose that. But they're literally getting paid to endorse a candidate. Local.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it's. I mean it's. And it's probably all sides of the coin. Right. The thing is is it creates this whole thing of like what is happening.

[B]

A couple years ago I had, I followed some people, some women, they're like in my. What do you call it? My, like, generation of content creation. Like back in the 2000s when we started. So my demographic, when I started, and they would like, they posted like the emails of getting hit and paid, like proposed to pay for endorsing a politician. So I already knew that just because they're like, just want to let y' all know what's going out there. And they like send the email crazy of like the dollar amount. And so influencers that either support whichever politician it was for or just don't care. Sure, I'll do that. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's. Or. Or if, you know, if that's the influencing it. It's.

[A]

That's pay to play. It is. Again, everyone's allowed to speak for whatever the Canada they want. They're allowed to share opinions. That's reality. But when you're influenced, when you hate

[B]

the word, when you're saying these are

[A]

people, people of influence, influence people for. Because of the money, then that creates a problem. And I do think that when you chase the almighty God of the dollar bill, so people get distorted and. And they make bad decisions.

[B]

So then. So then you would have to argue that basically anyone who wants to be an influencer right now, the intentions are mainly money. Because now it's known that influencers make a lot of money. Back then it did. It was not known. So are you saying, like, it's bad? Because this is. I just want to give this as an example. This is the part that makes my, like, skin crawl is because it was on Secret, Secret Wives of Mormon Lives. There was an episode where one of the girls got asked to promote. I think it was like a vibrator. And her mom was like, I don't think you should promote something like that. She was like, mom. She was like, do you use that? She said like, no. And the girl was like, it's $20,000 moment. So it's like, what? Yeah, it's 20. It's $20,000, mom. Like, why wouldn't I talk about this? And so to me, I was like. It was like disheartening of like, if you don't feel good about that and she's already start. It's because that's what girls are doing. I watched. I watched a reel that hit my feed and she was so excited. And it's such this, like, genuine moment. She had got her first brand deal and it was almost too real because she was like, I just. She said something like, at this point, I just wanted any brand to reach out to Me and I'm so excited and instantly I was like oh no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nope. And so it's almost like how can you not be like what are. Yeah, how can you not be like what are your intentions when you're being that you just said it. You just said that you would take anything.

[A]

I mean I guess it's so different than when I started Let me play dabbles for her. If she's doing it like a career and a job, she's.

[B]

She's excited.

[A]

She's spending a lot of time. It's like the first time you, you know we get signed with Andrews on the beer and we're starting like yeah, it's like that's. It feels good because people want your stuff. So maybe she's looking at that because she spends in the time of the career and again but that doesn't help

[B]

the audience perspective of non trust.

[A]

And one thing I'll say is like you didn't. I mean you, the way you share things is like you were, you were staying home with the kids. I had the different at a career and not everyone has that same bench.

[B]

You have a career now. But he had a corporate career.

[A]

Well, yeah, you know, I mean I had a corporate career like it was, it was a different dynamic in our dynamics of oh, and we've talked about the past. I have to go to the hash like how where we are in life it's. It's incredibly blessed and you know a lot of things have very, very like Lord's blessed us a lot of ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the time to do it again and the intent of it, the way you went in, it wasn't like again there wasn't the money that, that there is now when it started it wasn't the intent of it. And I think if the influence is there is just because every I me to me everyone's fighting for the same people. Everyone's starting to look the same. Everyone is. Is if you, you know, whether it's a brand deal or a fake brand deal or whatever it may be to feel like they're part of it.

[B]

It's just people and I'm not, I am not knocking brand deals. I do brand deals. If we're just going to be really 100 honest, that's what makes me be able to say this is a job, this is a career. This is what helps me do this usually seven days a week and still be able to provide for my family. However, the way I entered this space is drastically different than how kids are coming into this space. Now and it's. It stinks.

[A]

But I think, in my opinion, I think this. One of the things is it's everything evolves. It's going to always continue to evolve and how people share things. If you want to be authentic from the standpoint of being people that like, like I would like to create content, I'd love to have this be my career because I spent a lot of time on it, then be real.

[B]

But don't you think you authentic? You said, like we both said things are starting to kind of look the same and people are doing the same things. Don't you. I think that is like the main thing that why people are having right now influencer fatigue is like they log on and everything's the same, which instantly kind of like puts a ding and trust of that person.

[A]

Hear that?

[B]

And I.

[A]

That necessarily you.

[B]

But like it kills me because I'm lumped into that. And that's what I hate about that.

[A]

It's like you got your core. People that have known you and follow you. People are listening to this podcast probably. There's a lot of people that. It's a different relationship that you have. If you're starting new and you're doing it now, if you're suddenly starting that what everyone thinks.

[B]

Couldn't anyone sit here and say that?

[A]

Do you feel like you're selling your soul for a brand?

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

No.

[A]

So this, the point is as Jen is like, you know, you get. I know you're getting somewhat. You're having some introspective looks into this thing, which is good. It's part. It's part of like real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Life to think through is like, okay, you know, am I providing value to the people that are out there? Are they liking. Well then I'd say astoundingly, yes. People enjoy what you provide and what you do and how you talk and what you. What you share. Like whether it's.

[B]

I shared a snake in the bush

[A]

things, funny things in the moment, which is just part of it. And it's like back in the day, you know, it's even just the way the algorithm changed. The stories were the thing back in the day. That was everything.

[B]

It was so fun.

[A]

Right. But it was like you could post one picture and then when followed you for the stories again. The algorithm now rewards reels in the feed feed, feed reels. And that has to be curated just by the aspect of like the. Just the way it's designed. If you're in a story just talking and walking. Good. Don't Send so easy. Like, you're done. That becomes. That becomes that. Like, it's. It's in the moment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whereas, like, the real. They have to be curated and you have to have a cut and you have to edit it and it takes time. And suddenly it becomes just by that nature, it's now produced. And it's not. Doesn't mean it's fully produced, but you are. It's what it is.

[B]

True.

[A]

It's a different. It's just changed it. And that's also just because of the way again, the way people find and want to share things. And again, yeah. I don't know, man. I.

[B]

So I think that's the hardest part of the job is, like, not. I don't think it's hard, but it's what you constantly have to, like, keep your head on. The game is like, okay, what in this space. I know that influencers are getting a bad rap right now. Everyone's sick of them. It kind of makes me uncomfortable that, like, I'm in that genre when I didn't set out to be one. I'm very grateful for the job and I've worked really hard to get here. Yes. I'm not saying I never wanted to be an influencer. I've chosen to show up every day for 11 years. You know what I mean? That's a choice. So don't hear me when I say that. But what was I saying?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. I need to.

[A]

I think you're, you know, you want my. My opinion. You think you personally are overthinking it from a standpoint.

[B]

It's real influencer.

[A]

Like, look, you do. You have. Just keep doing you.

[B]

100 and I will just keep doing you. It is. It's just. I thought it would be, like, an interesting conversation because it's like talking about my own work. Oh, there's like. It's a negative tone. And like, how do I feel about that? Well, I'm telling you, it's uncomfortable.

[A]

I can tell you there's things like, I think just from a personal. Not personal. I think a word of advice would be, is if you find yourself on a piece of content and somebody drives you crazy, or you're like, oh, my gosh, unfollow. Or even if they're a random one, click the little button and say, show less of. Yeah, right. I'm telling you, it actually changes your algorithm. It really does. Because I had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So much like, gosh, I somehow got, like, what I. I was get. I don't know what is in my feed. I was getting, like, cops fighting people. I'm like, what is happening? Like, literally. I was like. It kept showing up. I'm like, I don't really want to see police and people fighting each other. And it was rain. Then it was, like, random people fighting each other on my feet. I'm like, why.

[B]

So you like violence?

[A]

No, But I was like, why is no one. You watch. I'm like, why these two dudes fighting? I guess I'm a guy, and I'm like, why are these two random guys fighting? And you watch one of them, and then it just starts changing, and I'm like, okay, I need.

[B]

It's like me and cats.

[A]

I need less of this. I do not need to see two dudes outside of a bar fighting each other.

[B]

Well, you can't watch that stuff. You got to go past it real fast.

[A]

But this is the problem. They hook you in.

[B]

Oh, no, I've got. I can understand.

[A]

This is. But again, I'm telling you, like, you see something like, wait, what are these dudes fighting about?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Like, because that's just human nature.

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

Why do you think. Why do you. Why do you think people bottleneck on a. When. When 100.

[B]

They're curious.

[A]

Like, what's that? Like, what is that? And so it's a natural thing. But again, that algorithm will. They'll get you. They'll trap you so quick. It's wild. And I literally started like, see less, see less not. I have no. I don't have any people. I. I'm just back to golf.

[B]

I. Seriously.

[A]

And you.

[B]

I loved being. I love being trapped by my algorithm. They really have me down. It's 80 cats being funny or mean, which I love. Golden retrievers.

[A]

That's great. I could handle that one. I need some golden life.

[B]

Tennis. Lots of tennis, which is really fun. And then on occasion, I'll get, like, comedic skits that are obviously, like, scripted content.

[A]

Were those funny couple you like? They're funny.

[B]

It's like John and Alexandra.

[A]

And that's totally scripted.

[B]

But it's totally scripted. They have writers. They're open. But it's really funny content. Yeah, really funny. So I think I like that kind of stuff.

[A]

I just look.

[B]

But I don't wanna. It sounds so lazy. But I'm like, ooh, hiring a writer and then them showing up to film every single day of the week. I've already done that once for national television. I think I'm good of just sharing

[A]

what I want to Sign into my production company, Jen. You'll love it.

[B]

What would you call it?

[A]

Mike.

[B]

Mike on the Mic Productions charity.

[A]

I'm coming for your job.

[B]

So here I have a question for you. Do you think this job will kind of run itself into the ground, or do you think it's a phase and then it will just everyone will.

[A]

I think it evolves. I think it's just like anything. I mean, social media is not going anywhere. No, it is going to change. And I do think my.

[B]

I'm going to get too old.

[A]

My belief.

[B]

I'm calling.

[A]

I. I disagree because I'm going to get old. Jen, your audience is the same age

[B]

as you, so we'll grow together.

[A]

That's what I think it evolves to where you are, in what phase of life you also have. Because hgtv, you do have some older demographic followers still. They've been there. And it's like you really have some super sweet people. Like, oh, my gosh. They kind of do it because they remember the moments as well. Right.

[B]

Struggle.

[A]

So you have sort of this, like, this bridge demographic.

[B]

A very wide range.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because of hgtv. But it's pretty.

[A]

And I think that's kind of cool that you've created a really, you know, kind. Oh, my group of people.

[B]

I say that and it always sounds like I have to be careful because it sounds like I'm bragging.

[A]

No.

[B]

But I really have gotten. God has treated me so well in this space and I have attracted super, super kind people. I cannot even tell you the last time I opened a dm that was mean. Like, they're there too long. They're there. I probably just didn't see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I always say. But the fact that I don't see it is like. I guess I'm like, you guys are the best. I've talked about this before. I genuinely. Again, it sounds like, like a humble brag. I. But I'm really thanking y' all so much. I don't get hate, but I get foot fetish.

[A]

Men.

[B]

They really like my feet.

[A]

You have. You have nice, curly, like, curved.

[B]

They're not even cute feet.

[A]

You have a nice, like, bulbous. It's nice. And one. It's really cool. It's a big.

[B]

I don't have a bunion. I do have blisters on my feet from tennis yesterday. I had to pop it and, like, get liquid out of it. It was gross.

[A]

But I. But I. Going back to it, I think I just. I don't think social media dies. I Do think people hopefully will go back to more authenticity? I mean, I know AI is getting things trickier. It's still kind of easy. Well, it's just, I mean, it's kind

[B]

of going back to authentic when now everything's being the most fake ever.

[A]

Yeah, but maybe it disrupts into like micro websites where people actually will follow you on your own website.

[B]

Or is it like substack?

[A]

I'm sure. Yeah. Where people subscribe and I'm sure that's where that's like, okay, now I know this is actually legitimate right now. Obviously you're verified on Instagram. You know your stuff is there. And it just. I, I do hope as people get fatigued, they'll just go back to the people, like curate their content, follow what makes you feel good, try to not doom. Scroll. Those are the things will help keep you in a better headspace. And then you'll, It'll. It'll keep you out of the fatigue. And just for you, it's, it's, you know, sharing what the life is in there. It's not like you get. You said you feel nostalgic on not sharing the earlier phase of things when you felt it was easier because it was like the kids, you know, those. In the moment of things. And. Yeah, but that's part of life.

[B]

We evolve.

[A]

And now we're dealing with a nearly teenager. We have a different perspective, of course. You know, it's like we have different things and we're going to be private on a lot of it because that's what we choose to do and we're allowed to do that.

[B]

But really, I'm like an open book in real life. I'll talk about anything. I really talk about. Not the kids, but not doing that. I do just want to say, like, to end this conversation out, I don't know what we achieved here, but I think it was more of a therapy session for myself about my job. But I do want to say thank you for all of you who have followed me throughout the years, because it's. I didn't know it was going to be a job and it's like the best job ever because I get to be weird on the Internet. And yes, I talk about Amazon things because I shop on Amazon and I like it. And I went shopping with Haley last week and we were like, in an actual store Levi's. And I was like. I was like, I hate shopping. I told her this. I'm like, I really have not been shopping other than like Amazon or like briefly online somewhere, but I'm just I'm so simple and I don't have any good style sense hardly anymore. But this. Thank you for being here. I'm not going to go into depth because I'll start crying.

[A]

Yeah, I, well, I mean I'll even step this one further. You shared authentic things, authentic, authentic things in your life like having to see a wellness physician, get your hormones checked, go in more depth. Things that like a lot of people don't know that hey, even a at the time, late 20, early 30 year old can go through things. Right? That's when you first started tying to talking about your Hashimoto's. Right? And people are like holy crap. I, I have that too. I feel like that too. It's like we're not diagnosing people. You're sharing your journey and your journey allows people to have opportunity to seize things like maybe I should do. And the number of people that just that story alone has helped about them going to work with their physicians, getting their hormones checked, getting on proper medication as needed if they do have thyroid problems is probably thousands, I really mean thousands of people that on a positive standpoint by you sharing real moments of how you've gotten, helped yourself to become better, take that step to be better has helped others. I mean you've been, we've been incredibly blessed to be able to be part of like beam. Like you've been able to make a product and be really engaged into something that you know is helping you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

For sure. Helping you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. That is for sure helping other people. I know, right? It's a pretty unique and cool thing where you're like wow, I got to

[B]

be a part of that and they help me. Like one of the, one of my people on Instagram DM'd me and was the one that told me about LDN which back in the day was the only medication that would bring my levels down. I have not taken LDN in a long time. I was supposed to be, but I wasn't and so like it very much is. I know it feels like a one way street and if we're like really going down to like the parasocial relationship, right. I don't know everybody but they watch me. That's there. Sure, you can't deny that but like it really is a two way street when I'm in the dms, like talking to them and engaging. Sure. I don't know this person on the street but I was sitting here like telling her about my lab results and she's sending me a picture of hers and asking me, like, what is the difference between Armor Thyroid and Synthroid? And I explained, like, Armor Thyroid has a little bit of T3 and T4, so it converts a little more naturally in your body versus Synthroid is just T4. Like, there's stuff I know.

[A]

Yeah. It's not synthetic.

[B]

Yes. And so anyway, it's been a blessing.

[A]

It is a blessing.

[B]

It's awesome. I guess every job has, like, moments of, like, tension. Right. Where you're like, oh, I don't like,

[A]

well, think about anyone right now. The world is. There's so much unknown in the world right now. But yeah. The reality is at any point you're in the unknown. I think there's a false sense of. People have a false sense of security and a false sense of anxiety.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We don't know what's going to happen next.

[B]

And I'm not complaining. I want that out there. I'm really not trying to complain. I just thought it was more of an interesting topic because I do this content creation for a living and for fun. And both can coexist. Right.

[A]

And they should.

[B]

It's fun. It should. Otherwise, it's. That kind of kills the authenticity.

[A]

I think this job 100 has to be fun.

[B]

Yeah. And so I just felt like it was like a perspective that I've been thinking about over the past few years. And I watch YouTube commentary videos on why influencers suck.

[A]

And like, you know, maybe that's your problem. Maybe you're putting bad content in your brain.

[B]

I know, but do you know. But do you know why I wanted to have this conversation? Is a lot of time I agree with them. I feel like it looks dishonest, like what they're talking about. And so.

[A]

But you're not that.

[B]

I know, but I have to. I'm just processing. I'm just processing these things with you and the world.

[A]

I know. I guess you're worried of being lumped into the bad and just people in some people's eyes.

[B]

I. I already am.

[A]

Yeah. But just.

[B]

But. And I just have to stop thinking about that.

[A]

That's. That's them. They don't know you. They don't follow you long enough. They look at one clip, they're like, whatever. And they. Yeah, but if they don't. It's just like any.

[B]

People think I don't.

[A]

Quick to judge.

[B]

And people think I don't even. I didn't even do the designs on the show, which is insane.

[A]

People think your hair's dyed. People think that. That you Photoshop your face. Like you have Had. I mean, Jen, the amount.

[B]

All those are true.

[A]

You're. You're like, wait, did I like this? Like, how is this. Like, remember that one person was like, like ranting about how you photoshop your face now?

[B]

Oh, when I had like no makeup on, I was like, are you calling me beautiful?

[A]

Because it made my day. Literally didn't put anything on.

[B]

Yeah, I look horrible. Like, this is the photo you go after. And it was like a horrible photo, but it's.

[A]

People can like, do you remember when

[B]

I got my picture back from HGTV and they like heavily airbrushed me and I told them, you have to take the airbrush off. I'm sorry. I know I have wrinkles, but, like, I don't look like that and I'm on the Internet every day. Like, they will know. People will know this is fake.

[A]

Look, keyboard warriors are quick to, to jump at their. Like, they work on emotion. That's a lot of people. They go, like, I'm gonna just about how I feel in the morning. Click.

[B]

Yeah. Ha.

[A]

And then it's like they put it out into the, into the ethos and whether they want a reaction or not or makes them feel better, but the amount of people that just react emotionally, like, thing is, if you say something sarcastic as a joke, if you said something on a one off people, like, I can't believe it say that about this person or this kid or whoever. Like, like, it's clearly sarcasm.

[B]

No, I have thick skin and I think God blessed me with that. To do this job, like, for real, you have to have thick. Thick. Well, thick skin. People call you ugly people.

[A]

I mean, they'd call me ugly.

[B]

They don't.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

They would never. Oh my gosh.

[A]

I was like, I mean, what thick skin.

[B]

They attack everything. I've even seen, like, where people comment on stuff and they tell a whole story about how they met me and I was rude and I'm like, in like things I said and I'm like, I literally have never met this person. It's a straight up lie. It's crazy. So you do have to have thick skin in that regard. But hey, look, I think this is a good place to end this conversation, I feel. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for sharing.

[B]

Thank you for listening, everyone. And I, I don't know, I hope that this might.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

So this episode might suck. We should maybe delete it.

[A]

I, I look, I think getting in, the one thing that's interesting is that you're literally in this field in space, and I think it is okay to share what you.

[B]

And I'm in the TV industry, which is a weird one to be in both because they are very different. That's a whole nother conversation. But, like, I kind of have identity crisis when it comes to, like, where I belong.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Or what my, like, title or label should be, because I've, like, done a lot.

[A]

You should write a book that says, who am I?

[B]

Who am I?

[A]

Who am. That's a great book. When are you gonna write your book, by the way? We'll talk about it later.

[B]

I said I was going to start.

[A]

I know. You told me it was gonna be done this year.

[B]

Did I?

[A]

Yes. I just need to travel for two weeks. Like, I did last.

[B]

Even, like, I don't know if she ever.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I do want to start it.

[A]

Janice, this was. I mean, look, I appreciate. I think it's. I didn't. You didn't really prompt me on what we were talking about, so this is.

[B]

I didn't. I wanted your raw.

[A]

I'm kind of rambling here sometimes.

[B]

I'm like, no, I wanted your raw face forward on this because if. When we do this privately and we're not filming for a podcast, you're very much like, jen, come on. You're not like that. You know that you're getting in your head. And. And it's more like the way I like it, which is very, like, direct, short, shut me down. I respond very well to that because I'm like, you're right. I mean, stupid. And I, Like, I had. I always say this, but, like, I grew up with boys, brothers, and, like, there was no like. But when you did this, you made me feel that, like, didn't ever exist. So I like it whenever it's like, move on. Compartment, like, move on.

[A]

When you felt. When you said that, I felt seen and heard good.

[B]

But, like, I just wanted to see.

[A]

Because you vocalize and verbalize the things I needed to hear.

[B]

But you did elaborate on you.

[A]

I feel. Because.

[B]

Yes, I know.

[A]

We did that last season. It was a great one.

[B]

It was a good one. But you elaborated a lot on this. So I like it because, again, we talk about everything. But I think what you're doing is you're responding the way I want you to, which is. Jen, come on. You're being silly.

[A]

No, also. But you're also asking somebody who's not living in, like, I.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I do use social media. I don't. I rarely post now, like a normal person.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I'll go through. And then I've you catch me at night sometimes. Like, don't watch this. And it's like comedy reel golf. And I'm like, yeah, I want to watch this one. I'm like, you're like, what are you doing? I'm like, good point. Put it away.

[B]

I don't doom scroll. So when Mike does, I'm like, get off your phone.

[A]

All right, we gotta go.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's a long one. That was awesome, but it's great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Appreciate you sharing. So how do we. How do.

[B]

Thanks for listening.

[A]

Where do they find us?

[B]

As always, if you want to give us feedback or suggestions on what to talk about next time, it is. Our email is you, me, and Mike podcast gmail.com. we are loving all. All yalls reviews coming in. Thank you so much. That's, like, our payment for doing this. So we really, really appreciate the 30 to 40 seconds that y' all took to write those reviews or to give us five stars or whatever. So we're super appreciative. Again, thank you so much for listening. And our next week is going to be our finale episode, so. Finale. Yeah, Finale episode. And then we'll take a summer break to the next.

[A]

It's not even that long of a break, right?

[B]

Not that long.

[A]

Okay. All right, bye.

[B]

Thanks, guys. Have a good week. Bye.