Podcast Episode Summary

Young and Profiting with Hala Taha

Episode: Dr. Maya Shankar: The Mindset Shift You Need When Life Doesn’t Go as Planned | Human Behavior | YAPClassic
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Hala Taha
Guest: Dr. Maya Shankar (Cognitive scientist, former White House behavioral science advisor, Head of Behavioral Science at Google, podcast host of “A Slight Change of Plans”)

Episode Overview

This episode explores how to handle unexpected life changes and adapt your mindset when plans fall apart. Dr. Maya Shankar, a leading cognitive scientist, shares her personal journey from aspiring violinist to influential scientist, and her work applying behavior science in government and business. Hala and Dr. Shankar unpack fundamental human biases, the power of nudges, and practical strategies for personal and professional growth — especially relevant to entrepreneurs and ambitious young professionals.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Maya Shankar’s Early Life and Unexpected Life Pivot

Timestamp: 02:01 – 09:51

• Musical prodigy origins: Dr. Shankar’s childhood revolved around the violin, inspired by her grandmother’s instrument from India and nurtured by supportive parents.
  • “Violin...was my entire life as a kid. When I was six years old, my mom...brought down my grandmother’s violin...I really took to it.” (02:10)
• Drive and opportunity: Gained entry into Juilliard via boldness and willingness to “shoot your shot,” a lesson she attributes to her mother’s fearlessness.
  • “A lot of times, the door will not open for you on its own...But sometimes, if you just force it open...you can try and inspire new opportunities for yourself.” (05:59)
• Setback and identity crisis: Suffered a career-ending hand injury at 15, forcing early identity foreclosure and grappling with redefining herself.
  • “I realized that my dreams were crushed and I could no longer pursue this path.” (03:45)

2. The Power of Passion & Transferable Skills

Timestamp: 07:27 – 09:51

• Hard work & resilience: Lessons from her intense musical training (relentlessness, emotional connection) transferred into every aspect of her later career.
  • “That drive, that spirit of commitment, I’ve carried that into other pursuits...certainly when working at the White House.” (07:31)
• Discovery of a deeper passion: Realized her true love was connecting with people, leading her toward the study of human behavior and cognition.

3. Journey into Cognitive Science

Timestamp: 10:13 – 13:41

• Finding a new calling: Discovered a passion for understanding the mind after reading a book on language, emphasizing the mind’s sophistication.
  • “When you learn about the mind, you will feel like you’re crushing it all the time. You will be in total awe of what our minds are capable of.” (11:04)
• Interdisciplinary nature: Combines linguistics, psychology, philosophy, anthropology, neuroscience, and computer science.

4. Breaking Out of Academia and Avoiding the Sunk Cost Trap

Timestamp: 13:41 – 18:11

• Academic crossroads: Left a postdoc at Stanford after realizing she craved more direct human impact.
  • “I feel like the order of operations is wrong here — like, I’m already peering into this guy’s brain and I don’t know whether he has kids, what his favorite food is...” (18:18)
• Pivotal White House story: Initiative and a ‘cold email’ landed her the opportunity to found the behavioral science team in the Obama administration.
  • “There was no job for a behavioral scientist in the White House. So I ended up sending a cold email. This is my mom’s Juilliard method.” (20:02)
• Sunk Cost Fallacy explained: The irrational tendency to continue an endeavor due to invested resources (“falling for sunk costs”), and the importance of being flexible and open to new paths.
  • “Should I just keep at it...just to avoid all this sunk cost? But I knew from my research to avoid the sunk cost fallacy.” (18:41)

5. Identity Flexibility & Avoiding Foreclosure

Timestamp: 25:28 – 29:41

• Identity foreclosure: The trap of clinging to an old identity, often closed off to opportunity.
  • “We can get very closed off...regarding what our identity is in this world...and hold onto that with a firm grip...” (25:35)
• Trait-based identity: Suggests anchoring your identity to transferable traits instead of singular roles.
  • “Maybe I shouldn’t attach my identity to pursuits, but instead attach it to traits of pursuits.” (26:23)

6. Launching the White House “Nudge Unit”

Timestamp: 30:11 – 40:24

• Building from scratch: Started with no team or budget, relying on naive optimism and creative strategies for organizational change.
  • “I started off with zero budget, no team...I was just absolutely resolute in my commitment.” (30:11)
• Strategies for buy-in: Focused on aligning proposals with existing agency goals and emphasizing ‘quick wins.’
  • “I aligned my recommendations with existing goals they already had...” (31:21)
• Cultural impact: Inspired organic interest, leading to a more lasting and empowered institutional change.

Notable Quote

• “You can’t dictate someone to care about something...No mandate in government can force a person to be excited about stuff.” (40:33)

7. Nudging & Behavioral Economics in Practice

Timestamp: 42:29 – 48:31

• Definition and effects of nudging: Small, strategic tweaks in environment or messaging cause significant behavioral changes — like auto-enrolling students in lunch programs or changing a word in campaign emails.
  • “Instead of telling vets they were eligible...we reminded them they had earned it...and this one word change led to a 9% increase in access to the program.” (43:51)
• Example – The Endowment Effect: People value what they already own or have earned more highly.
• Complex societal issues: Applying behavioral science to crises like Flint, Michigan’s water contamination, realizing the challenge was not just technical, but deeply rooted in trust and history.

8. Why Changing Minds is So Hard

Timestamp: 49:05 – 51:34

• Behavior vs. belief: Changing behaviors (with nudges, structure, default options) is much easier than changing deeply held beliefs, which are entwined with identity and group belonging.
  • “We often attach our identities to our values and our opinions...challenging our own minds, we’re challenging our sense of selves...” (49:19)
• Group affiliation: Perceptions and actions often follow community standards more than objective evidence.

9. Practical Nudging for Personal & Professional Growth

Timestamp: 51:34 – 55:05

• Temptation bundling: Pair undesirable tasks with rewarding activities to boost motivation.
  • “I have my favorite songs, I only allow myself to listen to them when I’m on the treadmill...” (52:15)
• Social norms: Use examples/stats to harness peer influence (“Most of your peers did X”).
  • “The one [message] that worked was telling people when their neighbors were using less energy than they were.” (52:55)
• Workplace nudges: Make use of deadlines, cues from respected community members, and default options.

Notable Quote

• “We are heavily influenced by how those around us act and behave. And if we understand this, we can leverage it for good...” (52:53)

10. Decision-Making Biases and Memory Construction

Timestamp: 55:37 – 58:43

• Acquaint yourself with biases: Loss aversion, the peak-end rule, and others can dramatically color choices and memory.
  • Peak-end rule: We remember the most intense and the final moments most strongly.
    • “We assign disproportionate weight to the most emotionally intense moment of the experience and the end of the experience.” (55:56)
  • IKEA effect: We value things more when we’ve built them ourselves, even if they’re imperfect. (59:02)

11. Lessons from “A Slight Change of Plans”

Timestamp: 59:41 – 64:22

• Why she started the podcast: To dig into how people of all backgrounds navigate upheaval and unexpected loss/change, drawing on her personal story and collective trauma from 2020.
• Key takeaways: Change never happens in a vacuum — altering one part of yourself affects the whole. Sometimes dreaded change produces growth, unexpected capacities, or silver linings.
  • “Approach change with a profound amount of humility and open mindedness.” (64:10)

12. Profiting in Life: Dr. Maya Shankar’s Secret

Timestamp: 64:41 – 65:18

• Strong support networks: “Building a really strong community of supporters around me...can really help boo[y] you and help you get to that next phase. Don’t believe you have to do it all on your own.” (64:44)

Notable Quotes

• “A lot of times, the door will not open for you on its own...sometimes if you just force it open, you can try and inspire new opportunities for yourself.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (05:59)
• “Should I just keep at it...just to avoid all this sunk cost? But I knew from my research to avoid the sunk cost fallacy.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (18:41)
• “We can get very closed off...regarding what our identity is in this world. We can attach ourselves to an early identity...that can make us close-minded.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (25:36)
• “You can’t dictate someone to care about something...No mandate in government can force a person to be excited about stuff.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (40:33)
• “When veterans feel, ‘Oh, I’ve already got this benefit in my hands,’...it was a compelling way to drive interest in the program.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (44:14)
• “We often attach our identities to our values and our opinions and our beliefs...when you challenge your mind, you’re challenging your sense of self.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (49:19)
• “Approach change with a profound amount of humility and open-mindedness.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (64:10)
• “Building a really strong community of supporters around me...don’t believe you have to do it all on your own.” — Dr. Maya Shankar (64:44)

Key Timestamps

• 02:01 – Dr. Shankar’s early life & Juilliard hustle
• 09:51 – Cognitive science: what it is, her discovery of it
• 18:11 – Leaving academia, discovering behavioral science in policy
• 25:28 – Identity foreclosure, adapting to loss & change
• 30:11 – Founding the White House “nudge unit,” startup lessons
• 42:29 – Practical nudge examples from government work
• 49:05 – Why changing minds is so hard: identity & group effects
• 51:34 – Nudging in the workplace, temptation bundling, social norms
• 55:37 – Decision-making biases & memory construction
• 59:41 – Launching her podcast, lessons from guests
• 64:41 – Dr. Shankar’s “secret” to profiting in life

Further Resources

Dr. Maya Shankar’s Website: mayashankar.com
Podcast: [A Slight Change of Plans] (Available on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, etc.)

Final Thoughts

This episode is a compelling blueprint for entrepreneurs and ambitious professionals: Redefine your identity as you evolve, harness the power of habit science and nudges, and don’t be afraid to knock on closed doors. Maya’s journey—from Juilliard violinist to leading scientist and White House strategist—proves that setbacks can be pivots to purpose, and that adaptability, curiosity, and community are your greatest assets.