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Rudy Mawer: The Ultimate Direct Response Playbook for Scaling Multi-Million-Dollar Brands | E318
01:02:49
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A
Today's episode is sponsored in part by Rakuten Teachable Fundrise, Mint Mobile, Working Genius, Indeed Airbnb and Shopify get cash back on every purchase with Rakuten. The Smarter Way to Shop and Save this holiday season, start all your shopping trips@rakuten.com or get the Rakuten app to start saving today. Teachable makes it easy for creators to monetize their content with full control. Head to teachable.com profiting to claim your free month of their pro paid plan. Grow your real estate investments in minutes with the Fundrise Flagship Fund. Add the Fundrise Flagship Fund to your portfolio with as little as $10 at fundrise.com profiting save big on wireless with Mint Mobile. Get your new 3 month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com profiting unlock your team's potential and boost productivity with Working Genius. Get 20% off the $25 WorkingGenius assessment at workinggenius.com with code profiting at checkout. Attract, interview and hire all in one place with Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com profiting terms and conditions apply. Generate extra income by hosting your home on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com Host Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you grow your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com Profiting as always, you can find all of our incredible deals in the show Notes.
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B
I went all in with my personal brand and we did $25 million in three years. Beginners actually need to learn some level of direct response because it's what gets attention and it gets people to click.
- [01:43]
A
What are your best tips in terms of getting more leads?
- [01:46]
B
One part of it is. Let me just add one more thing to help people there.
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A
This was like a masterclass and direct response. How do you get them to then move to the next level?
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B
How'd you get someone on a second date? Follow up with them?
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A
How can we increase our convers versions.
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B
99 of success we've had this.
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A
Young and profits welcome back to the show and I am smiling ear to ear because today we have an amazing conversation with Rudy Moore. Rudy is the direct response and paid ads king. He knows everything about this topic and you guys know that I love to talk marketing. So I'm so excited for this conversation because Rudy really knows his stuff. Now I've interviewed so many great marketers from Gary Vee to Russell Brunson And Rudy reminds me of these folks so much because he just truly knows his stuff. He's responsible for so many celebrity brands. He's the genius behind it all and he's so good at what he does. He really knows the ins and outs of direct response marketing. So I can't wait to pick his brain. And we're going to learn everything about paid ads, how to make converting ads, how to use psychology, how to create great funnels, how to warm up our leads, the difference between organic traffic and paid ads traffic and how we have to treat that traffic. We're going to talk metrics, we're going to talk LTV again. This is truly a masterclass when it comes to direct response. So without further delay, because I seriously can't wait for this conversation, here's my conversation with the man in red, Rudy Moore. Rudy, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
- [03:32]
B
What's up? It's great to be here.
- [03:34]
A
I'm excited to be here too. I feel like we're going to have so many lessons for all of our entrepreneurs tuning in right now. Rudy, I was doing some research for the show and I found out that you have a goal of becoming a billionaire. And like me, you've been an entrepreneur since your teens. So tell me, why do you have this big audacious goal of becoming a billionaire?
- [03:54]
B
I get asked this question a lot. I think a lot of people think, oh, why does someone need that much money? And I was explaining this yesterday to a friend. If you're a pro athlete, say you play basketball, your goal is to win the NBA. If you're a sprinter, your goal is to win an Olympic gold medal. So I think to me, I'm very competitive. I came from a sporting background. If I'm in business, to me the billion dollar mark signifies all the things that I want to create in the world around business. So impact, legacy, changing the world in a positive way, having amazing teams and products and international reach. All of those things are summarized by building $1 billion company. And look, could it be worth 500 million and still do all those things? Absolutely. Could it be 4 billion or 20 billion and do all those things? Yeah. So for me, it's a bigger goal of being the best version of myself winning what I would class as like the gold medal in the sport of business and impact in the world.
- [04:53]
A
I love the fact that there's some intrinsic goals tied to that big billion dollar goal. I think that's really important so that you stay motivated. So you've had an amazing career journey and you're still really young. By the time you were 26, you scaled your first multimillion dollar business. By the time you were 30, you had four multimillion dollar businesses that you helped scale. And now you're known as this celebrity marketer. For a list celebrities, you've run ROI Machines, which is a top direct response agency. Can you just give us a high level of your career journey? Like how did you get started in all of this? How did you end up scaling businesses?
- [05:29]
B
So I was typical kid in school, like buying and selling, hustling. I actually got banned from selling in the playground when I was like eight years old. Entrepreneur my entire life. When I was a teenager, I built one of the largest gaming communities in the world, built my own websites, really got into tech right when computers were taking off. 20 years ago, was ebaying, buying and selling on ebay, making thousands of dollars as a teenager. Then continued my hustle. When I turned 18, I became a personal trainer. But instead of just working in a gym, I built my own website and ranked number one for SEO in my area and built a bit of a personal training business, ran nightclub events, then started buying real estate with all the profit I made from personal training. So I bought a few houses as a student, rented them out to my best friends and all my college friends. So typical entrepreneur. And then moved to America at 23:24, made my first million. Within a couple of years of getting out here in the fitness space, took that company to about 8 million. That led to an advertising agency where we were spending tens of thousands of dollars a day on Facebook ads and social media ads. I think at our peak, we spent up to $300,000 a day on social media ads. And then, yeah, I've done a lot since, Built a ton of companies, ran a 300 employee company, built all these brands with celebrities, and built a holding company which now we have a bunch of trainings and courses and celebrity brands.
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A
What a wild career. And you obviously are a person who really thinks outside the box. You really believe that life is limitless. And I think a lot of that had to do with your upbringing and your parents, your environment. So I found out that your parents were Olympians. How did that really shape your perspective on life and entrepreneurship in general?
- [07:16]
B
Someone asked me, and I'm sure you maybe will ask at some point, why the red and the red? To me, when I started my personal brand, I've always been different. And my first time remember being different is if you know anything about England, they're obsessed with soccer it's basically their life. And the success of the English soccer team or their own soccer team they support is going to dictate their happiness in life. And I remember during the World cup, the soccer World Cup, I decided to support Brazil, and Brazil knocked England out in the semifinal. So I was very unpopular in school that day. The teachers actually asked me to stay home, and instead of staying home, I turned up later that day in a Brazil shirt. I think I got bullied all day and beaten up about 20 times throughout the day. But I've always been different, right? And I've always not been afraid to stand out and do my own thing. And I think my parents gave me that not because they were financially successful, but my mom was a gold medalist in triathlon, and my dad was the Great Britain team manager, so he was actually the manager of the Olympic team, the Great Britain triathlon team. So I got to travel every weekend. I was going to races around the world, hanging out with the best athletes in the world. And it really just showed me, you can achieve anything in life. You can be unique. You can do whatever you want if you really believe in yourself and work hard.
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A
I know when I was in my teens, like, 18, 19, I worked at Hot 97. And I remember just meeting a new celebrity every day. I'd meet J. Lo, then Jay Z, then Chris Brown, and sometimes I'd be hanging out, having dinner with them, going out with them. And it made me realize that these are just normal people and that anything is possible. And so environment is so important, and who you surround yourself is so important. I know that you moved to America at a pretty young age. You said 23. You moved to Miami first or where did you first move to?
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B
I was in a small town in England. No one liked money. I liked money. And I would speak about money and trying to make a bunch of money and become a millionaire. And I remember my girlfriend at the time, she'd kick me under the table if I was at dinner with her family or someone. If you talk about money, it's like you're bragging. And this terrible thing in England, in my city, the idea of success was you earn 100 grand a year and drive a Range Rover. And, you know, in Miami, it's like every second person probably does that, right? So it's just I realized that was the wrong environment for me and all the big successful people. I followed actually through podcasting and social media. When it really took off, like, what, 15 years ago, they're all in America. So I was like, I've got to get there. So I moved to Tampa, Florida. I actually did a master's degree in sports science, which was my first business because it's very hard to get into America. So the easiest way was to do a master's degree. While I was there, I applied for a full long term visa. So I got an 01 visa, which is classed as an extraordinary individual. So I had to submit evidence of my businesses and I had recommendation letters from some of the biggest companies and celebrities and athletes in the world. And that's what allowed me to stay in America. And so I grew a big office in Tampa and then last year opened an office in Miami, which is what I'm sat in right now. Just because it's, you know, again, it's a level up, right? Tampa's a level up from England, Miami's a level up from Tampa. More money here, more celebrities, more opportunity.
- [10:31]
A
And so Rudy's sitting in a big red chair right now for everybody who's tuning in. He's got an awesome studio, nicer studio than I do. And he just started pop podcasting. So this big, shocking red color that you've plastered all over your office, your social media, you walk around with like a red furry coat even when it's not cold, right?
- [10:54]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [10:55]
A
So tell us, why the red? Why are you so adamant about the red? And are you getting sick of the red now that it's been a while?
- [11:02]
B
I like gimmicks and I like being different. So I'm not sick of the red because I like people when they laugh or make jokes about me or comment in a friendly way. Rudy, I love the red. It's great. I like that stuff. You know, again, I like to be different. I'm not sick of it yet. I will say I'm a big fashion. I love fashion. And so I have, in my Tampa house, I have a whole wardrobe of designer black jackets and stuff that I can never wear again. And it's very sad. And occasionally when I'm shopping, I see this awesome coat or jacket that's black or gray or blue and I'm like, oh, I wish I could buy this. But that's the only downside. But no, yeah, my whole office is red. So we grew a 12,000 square foot office in Tampa. 50 staff, everyone had to wear red. They got sent home if they didn't come in uniform, which was red. The whole office was red. The Miami offices are red, the brands are red, the cars are red. And people even ask me when I'm on stage. Yes, My underwear is red, if you're wondering. So, all in on the red. All in.
- [11:59]
A
What has that done for your brand? How do you feel like it's impacted your brand?
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B
I would love to say I came in with this exact plan. That wasn't the case. But I think one thing that made me successful is I'm really good at looking and learning and adapting and pivoting and then going all in. So I started my personal brand. Really, when Covid hit, I really wanted to grow my personal brand in the business marketing world. I had already done it in the fitness space. I had a million followers there. I sold out events around the world, had a Facebook group, 60,000 members. And I saw the power of it. And so I was like, okay, well, now I'm moving into the business space. I'm going to do the same here. So I brought someone in to run my agency. I went all in with my personal brand, and we did $25 million in three years just selling courses, programs, coaching programs. So we grew it super fast. And I'm saying that because I think half of that is because I went all in on the personal brand and the social and the organic and stages and all of that sort of stuff. So it had a massive impact. I don't think I would have grown it to that amount so quickly without the brand. But during that time, we were just getting feedback. People were buying courses, programs. I had this red backdrop. Nothing as extreme as I've got now, but it was kind of similar to this if you're watching on video. And people loved it. They were buying 20k masterminds saying, I don't even know who this guy is. I just see his red ads everywhere. And his branding's on point, and he clearly knows what he's doing. Luckily, touchwood in this industry, I do feel I know what I'm doing. It's not just a facade. Like half the industry we live in is. And then I was going to events when COVID lockdown ended. And all the friends that I'd known for five years were like, dude, I love your branding now, like, how you did this whole red thing. So it just got more and more and more. And I'm a very extreme person, which is sometimes great and sometimes terrible. So I just went all in. All my cars are red. I made all the offices red. I made all the staff wear red. And I played into it, and now it's very recognizable, and I'm well known for it.
- [13:54]
A
Yeah, I think the key thing is that you're memorable right there's so many other influencers out there, and you do have the knowledge to back it up and the credentials to back it up. But the red just makes it memorable and makes you stand out. Whereas other people might have to be seen 10 times to be remembered. Maybe just once is all you need to be remembered. So how can other people replicate this? Like, aside from picking a bright color, how can other entrepreneurs replicate this?
- [14:21]
B
Let me bring it home for everyone listening. It's not about a color. And a lot of people say, rudy, do I need to do yellow? I'm like, no, no, no. What I teach is you need a. And I'm going to use this word, but I think everyone needs a gimmick, right? I've been fortunate enough to work with a lot of WWE wrestlers, some of the biggest in the world. I grew up watching, and it's been very cool. But the biggest lesson from all the wrestlers is they all have a Gimmick. And the WWE, I think, became $1 billion company because it was so good at building characters. You've got the Rock, you've got Hulk Hogan, you've got all these characters, and they all have these gimmicks, right? And really what a gimmick is, in my eyes is something memorable, something that you stand for. It could be a brand message, it could be a color, it could be a technique, it could be anything, right? For me, I ended up going for the red, and it was my favorite color, and it means standing out. But if you're listening, what do people know you for? What do they come to you for? What are you the expert in? Right? And you're a great example. Like, whenever I have anyone ask me about a podcast or they want to get into this media space, I tell them to go find you. And I've connected people with you and sent a lot of people to you. So I think everyone's goal should be how do I become what I call a category king or an expert or a go to person in whatever I do, Right? And that's a really great first step.
- [15:39]
A
I love that category king. And I am. You're right, I am the podcast princess. So that's a perfect example. So I know that you are speaking of category kings, you are the king when it comes to direct response marketing. Also formerly the king of, maybe still the king of Facebook ads. But that's going to be a question. Are Facebook ads still relevant? But talk to us about direct response marketing. Entrepreneurs are listening to the show, but direct response is this complex word. I don't Think people really know what it means. So break that down. What is the definition of direct response?
- [16:13]
B
Yeah, direct response marketing has been around for many years. It's like the underlying type of marketing behind a lot of big brands. Okay. And I think marketing, you can always split into two sides. You've got more like organic branding, fluffy social media marketing and branding. And then you've got what I call more hardcore direct response marketing. And to give you an example, if you're listening, direct response marketing is where it's a big promise or a big claim or it's very clear. It's like lose 27 pounds in 27 days with this two minute morning meditation. Right? That's what direct response is because it's a clear, hey, do this and you'll get this outcome. Branding would be more this fitness influencer that talks about weight loss and has all these different ads and social media content and something that they're known for. You know, eventually the goal of a brand is to build more like a Coca Cola or a Louis Vuitton. Louis Vuitton doesn't need to say, buy this handbag and everyone will think you're rich and famous and this is all the celebrities and it's a status symbol. That would be direct response for Louis Vuitton. Louis Vuitton doesn't need to do that because it spent 100 years or whatever building a brand. But when most of us start out, we're not Louis Vuitton or Gucci or Coca Cola or Nike as much as we wish we were and want to be. So I think more beginners actually need to learn some level of direct response because it's what gets attention and it gets people to click and it gets people into your world, which is where you can then start impacting them.
- [17:43]
A
So just to break it down, there's direct response and there's brand. The other way that I think about it is direct response is like immediate, right? You're looking for immediate conversions, immediate leads. Branding is more of like awareness, long tail. You might get the leads later on, but it's more about getting people familiar, getting people warm. So what are the main ways that people do direct response? What are the main channels?
- [18:06]
B
Any platform that you can advertise and get some sort of an instant reaction is great for direct response. So for me, I don't do much in SEO. I don't know much about it. I think it's a good background thing to run. But if I build a new website today, there's a very, very small chance that I'M going to instantly rank number one on Google for a keyword. But what I can do is build a website today, build a social media Facebook and Instagram handle and profile and set up an ad and I can get genuine leads, customers and clicks to my website that same day or the next day maybe. So that's the big difference, right? And it's a lot of people say, rudy, well, what's better? It's like asking what's better? Diet or exercise? You kind of need both long term, but you might start with one to really get going and then add in the second one and refine over time. So yeah, I think direct response, any social media platform where you can reach people instantly, advertising on Facebook, Google Ads, YouTube ads, all of those LinkedIn ads. And then most of the time you'll see direct response more with cleared landing pages and what we call in our world funnels, I like to call them more like sales processes where there's a clear angle. Right. Someone's going to click that link on a social media ad, they're going to give their email, they're going to get redirected to a 5 minute video and then at the end of the video it tells them to book a sales call or it tells them to buy a $200 product. That's more direct response.
- [19:30]
A
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If there's like DM Retargeting or manychat Automations, do you consider that direct response as well?
- [24:56]
B
Yeah, I think you're definitely getting into that. And what's kind of weird and interesting, I'm glad you had this question because I wanted to bring this up, is in the last five years there's been this merger, right? So five, 10 years ago, all I did was direct response because that's how I learned all of this stuff and I just ran ads and funnels and you didn't even really need a brand. But I really notice about, you know, in my journey between five, 10 years ago, the power of the brand. I saw it, my own fitness brand, I saw it with the influencers I was working with. And that's why consciously, about four or five years ago, I've really made an intention. I've spent millions of dollars building my brand because I saw the writing on the wall and I saw the future is going to be powerful personal brands that also understand marketing. And if you look at any of the biggest brands in the world, the ones that are crushing it, especially the influencers, they understand both sides. They understand how to build a brand, how to build an audience, how to go viral, and then how to monetize it.
- [25:54]
A
So for me, I've been heavily focused on the brand aspect and building organic brands. So LinkedIn is one of my main platforms and I have a course and my agency is just inbound leads from my brand. I don't ever have to do ads or anything like that for my course. At a certain point, we're like, okay, let's test paid ads. So we hired an agency, we spent $30,000. I sell out my course just organically. But we were like, oh, let's just double the amount of people in class and just do paid ads. Totally flopped. Did not work at all. And I think the reason why is because on social media, people are so bought into me before they even think about buying the course. They see my stuff, they attended my webinars, I give them so much value, and when they're seeing me on Facebook, they have no idea who I am. Even if they go attend a webinar, it's still not enough to convert them. So it totally tanked for us. So talk to me about what I did wrong.
- [26:52]
B
It's so common and it took me a few years to really understand this in my agency and see the difference. So I now tell people straight up and you're like an amazing case study. If I had this conversation with you, I would say, hey, when you go into cold traffic, you've got to realize it's like starting a second business. So you can't take everything that's working now, all your funnels and everything, and copy it over and run ads to it and assume it's going to work. I wish that was the case. It would be easy if it was. Sadly, it's not, because. And you already answered the question as to why. Because people don't know, like, and trust you. And that's the amazing thing. If you can pull off growing an actual genuine, organic personal brand and tribe, the life in business and marketing becomes way easier because you can throw up. You know what I'll call a half baked landing page? A mini landing page. A bit of a headline, a bit of a sub headline, a few bullets, a quick selfie video, and you'll get thousands of people by because they love you. But then if you go and run that to Facebook ads, it just doesn't work, right? Again, everyone asks, well, which is better, Rudy? It's like, look, if you can build a brand and tribe and community, for sure, go do that. But realize that takes a lot of time, right? And you're also an exception, right? Whether you know it or not, you know, there's a lot of people that want to launch a podcast. They don't become you, right? So it's really hard to become the next Mr. Beast, right? It's really hard to become a five, $10 million business organically. And it takes a lot of time. And that's why I like ads, because I think a lot of people a, they don't have the personality for organic social. When I meet them, I'm like, you're not going to film a video every day for the next three years and pull this off. But you could have a really great landing page and some influencers and you have an amazing supplement or whatever product and that could crush it for you. So part of it's knowing your personality, part of it's knowing your goals and paths. And like most things in life, you can start with exercise and lose a bunch of weight and eventually you're going to say, well, I need to now really refine my diet to get even healthier and fitter and get my six pack. And you might start with diet and say, okay, I lost a bunch of weight, but now I'm skinny and I really need to do some strength training to look better. So I'm going to add that in. And it's kind of the same for you. You went, say, the diet route and you go, okay, well, now to get to that next level, I should add exercise too. I went the exercise route and then I go, okay, well, to go to that next level, I got to add the diet part in. And there's no right or wrong. It's just two different paths that join eventually when you get to a certain level.
- [29:18]
A
So if I did want to try paid ads again, how should I do it differently? What should I think about?
- [29:24]
B
Easy way to understand paid ads and direct responses. I always teach people, people are selfish and if you don't tell them the benefit or the outcome in a couple of seconds, they're not going to listen. And that's very different to if they're a loyal fan because they'll listen to you for an hour, talk about your favorite color or your favorite restaurant. Right. Because they love you. So you've got to treat it like they have no clue who you are and they only care about themselves. So let's run through it. Tell me the outcome of this course that you were trying to sell.
- [29:52]
A
So basically I was driving people to a webinar that I usually drive my organic following to where I teach them a little bit and then I have some promo and sell a masterclass.
- [30:04]
B
And what does the masterclass teach?
- [30:06]
A
It's a two day LinkedIn workshop.
- [30:09]
B
If they go through that, how's that going to change their life?
- [30:13]
A
I 10x their social media visibility and leads on LinkedIn.
- [30:18]
B
Great. So I would run everything reversed engineered from the final part. Right. So I would go in this webinar, you're going to learn how to 10x your social media and lead flow for your own business through LinkedIn and other social media platforms. Here's the case study of how I did it. Here's 10 of my clients do it. Here's the three things you're going to learn. Three core principles in this webinar. They attend the webinar, you teach the core principles and then you go, hey, these are all the core principles. If you want to go off and learn and implement these like I've done for the last five years now you know where to start looking. If you want to just get my system where I've already put all these together and you can just copy and paste it into your own business. Click here to buy it has to start kind of reverse engineer it a little. It has to be very intentional to the outcome. They're already starting the first time they see you knowing, okay, this person is going to teach me how to 10x my lead gen through LinkedIn and then you're teaching through it and then it's linked to the offer. So that's part of it. And then you also just have to understand economically from a data standpoint, everything's going to be watered down. So if you get 50% of people showing up from warm traffic, you're only going to get 10%, 20% show up from cold traffic. If your webinar was closing at 10%, it's going to close at 4% to cold traffic. Doesn't mean it doesn't work and it doesn't mean it's bad because yes, the conversion rate's lower but you can now reach 6 billion people versus even if you're the rock, you can't reach the entire world right organically. But with paid ads you pretty much can. So there's more watered down, but your ability to reach people at 10x so it kind of evens itself out.
- [31:52]
A
And what do you feel like is the best way to warm people up when they see your paid ads? So I had the strategy of bringing people to a webinar and to your point, I did get conversions, but everything was just watered down. People attended less. We even retargeted them on email because we had their email to try to keep warming them up before the session. But like, what's your advice there?
- [32:11]
B
Well, just to add to that, we literally have people book sales calls with a celebrity, then obviously the celebrity is not on, it's our sales team. And a day later they're like, what is this call about? So you got to realize people click ads, put their email in, fill in a 12 question application, book a sales call for the next day to work with blah blah celebrity, get on a call the next day and have no clue who it is or what they did. Right. You've got to realize cold traffic, it's just a different game, but it doesn't mean you won't find loyal people in it. Like I built 60,000 people in my Facebook community, which were all buyers in my fitness brand when I started through paid ads. And they traveled the world to come to my events and they became loyal fans that loved me just like you have them. But it's more of a diamond in a rough scenario and it's a bit more of a volume game. So yeah, you've just got to understand that you're going to get a lot less people. And to answer the question about warming them up, there's two parts of that. Part number one is I always teach make an offer and a funnel and a sales process so good that they just want to buy anyway, even if they aren't warmed up. Because the best way to warm someone up is they have their credit card to you and now they pay attention. Right? Because part of it is the trade for attention, not money. So if you can get them to become a buyer of some sort, now they're going to pay attention and actually give you an opportunity to warm them up. Right. The other way to do it is, and this is where it blends organic together is really growing your organic, focusing on virality, focusing on content, running some ad spend behind it. You take one video that got 100,000 organic views. Well, now let's boost that at $10 a day, take it to a million views, and then target those 900,000 people that just watched that video, and you can set it to, hey, people that watch 75% of that video. So now you got 200,000 people that watch 75% of the video and now send them to the webinar. Right. Will they still be cold? Yeah. But will they be a little warmer than before? Absolutely.
- [34:09]
A
These strategies are so good. And one thing that you just opened my eyes to is that my masterclass is excited. Expensive, right? It's almost $2,000. So my organic leads were willing to spend the $2,000 after a webinar. But maybe for cold traffic, it needs to be like a $200 course, a 197 course.
- [34:27]
B
Most of our stuff, we actually start at under $100. There's a big, important psychology lesson here. Under $100. Psychologically, most people don't need multiple decision making processes. They don't need to review it multiple times. As soon as you go over $100 and especially over 500 or 1,000, there needs to be multiple touch points and multiple conscious decision making processes involved. Great. Way I explain this is. You know when you're lining up at cvs, Walgreens grocery store to pay, have you ever saw on the side of the aisle where you're in the line where they say, you can buy a TV here for 1000, and then the other side, it's like, you can buy a jet ski for 12,000, and then you can buy, you know, a new couch for 2000? No, you never see that. Why? Because it's too expensive to be spontaneous. Right. But that's what a lot of people are doing in their ads when they sell to cold traffic. They're saying, hey, buy this $12,000 jet ski. It's like, I came here, I'm bored at work, looking at my friend's photos. I'm not ready to buy a Jet Ski. I try and start them low, get them in the ecosystem. And another easy analogy is you're going to date before marriage, Right? When they're a warm following, you can say, hey, you want to come on a week's vacation with me? If you went up to a stranger in the street or on a dating app, and the first message was, hey, you want to come on a week's vacation? They're gonna be like, who the hell is this? Right. So you got to date a little, and then you can elevate that process as A relationship build. Same psychology with dating, same psychology with the user journey.
- [35:57]
A
I want to stick on this for a bit because I think it's really important, the importance of understanding that you need multiple products and you need to upsell along the way. So give us an example of how you've done this in your business.
- [36:10]
B
I call this the ascension model. I think most businesses need this and most businesses that are successful, they have what's called a high lifetime value. So they have multiple products to elevate people through. Right. And obviously the exception again is maybe billion dollar brands. Louis Vuitton doesn't sell something cheap. But most people that buy a Louis Vuitton bag don't walk around the shopping mall, have zero clue what that brand is and just go, I'm going to buy a fifteen hundred dollar handbag. They've wanted a Louis Vuitton for three years because their favorite celebrities, influencer and older sister all had Louis Vuitton back. So again, you got to realize the psychology is different for most of us that aren't Louis Vuitton or anything like that. We need these multiple touch points. We need free content, we need opt in based content where people just give their email address or phone number. You want generally some sort of a lower ticket content which is the first date you're getting them in the restaurant. And then you need some content where they can start dating. You maybe move into the house, which is what we call middle tier content. And then you want your high ticket content which is when they're going to get married to you and have kids. Right. So if you imagine it just like that, easy way to understand it, right? The first date is the first message on a dating app or whatever. I saw 60% of people that meet these days are through dating apps now. Kind of crazy, but that first day is that first touch point. And then you just take people through this journey.
- [37:34]
A
I've been marrying everybody, apparently I need such dating people.
- [37:38]
B
The nice thing is you built a big brand where so many people want to get married to you. But now you said I want even more people to get married to. And now you've got to start over again over here and you just got to warm them up a little bit first.
- [37:51]
A
Now in terms of the ads themselves, what are your best tips in terms of getting more leads, more conversions with psychology, copywriting your images, your videos, things like that.
- [38:02]
B
Let me just add one more thing to help people there. A lot of people say, well Rudy, I only have this $2,000 product. I don't want to make all these things. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. You already have everything you need to go backwards. You take the $2,000 product, imagine one part of it is this little thing that does this little problem. You just take that one thing out of it and drop it earlier in the system. Right? So if we use LinkedIn as an example, maybe your $2,000 course helps them 10x, blah, blah, blah. And maybe one of the 20 modules teaches them how to build the perfect profile. Well, that becomes a $19 course by itself. It's one of the 20 things in the $2,000 thing. You've already got the video, you've already got the loom video talking through the profile. You've got this profile template worksheet. Take those three things, $19 product, you don't need 300 pages. In fact, nowadays people want less content and a clear outcome. And now, voila, you've already created the start of your ecosystem. So it's very easy to do. And even if you're like a software company, like really, my software is $2,000 a year. I can't split it out. Give people a free trial. Give people access to one piece of the software that does one small thing.
- [39:11]
A
So then how do you get them to then move to the next level? Like, what are the tactics to get them to then move to the next product? The next product. The next product.
- [39:18]
B
How'd you get someone on a second date? Follow up with them? Yeah, you've got, you have to ask, right? And you have to ask sometimes, many, many times, especially if they're in high demand, which a customer is. The customer sees a thousand ads a day and 300 emails a day. So you've got to ask, right? Yeah. You want to build a system. Okay, so let's imagine someone downloads a free program, or let's use this LinkedIn example. They pay $19 for this perfect profile system that you've developed. Great. They've got their perfect profile, but now they're kind of left hanging. You took them on the first date and they're like, now what? They got the profile, but they don't know how to get leads, how to post content. So then you follow up. You say, hey, I hope your profile's going well. Now the next step you're probably asking yourself is how do you turn this into actually getting leads, growing your following, and reaching more people through viral content? Well, we have a great one hour presentation that's going to take you through those three pillars that will help you 10x your social media lead gen through our LinkedIn system register here. They now register for the one hour and they watch it. And now maybe because they already liked you, they saw how great this profile training was. Now this one hour, they're a little warmer to buy. So you want to develop all these touch points. It could, and I'm not saying there's only one way. There's hundreds of ways. You want to text them, you want to have a sales rep call them, you want to send them to an hour's webinar, you want to send them to a 10 minute summary video of the webinar because half the people will never have an hour to watch it. Especially the most successful people, which are probably your avatar. They definitely don't. I'm never watching an hour's webinar, but I might watch a five minute summary video and then say, okay, this looks good. I'll have one of my team book a call here and see what it's all about. So you want all these different touch points to follow up with and to ascend them into that next stage.
- [41:03]
A
So good. Okay, back to the question that I was saying, how can we increase our conversions? What are some hacks tactics that you use?
- [41:11]
B
First rule of ads that I love to teach and it's changed a lot since I used to be in the ad manager all the time myself. 99% of ads now has nothing to do with the ad manager. Okay? 99% of success with ads is the creative, the hook and again the offer and also the link to your branding. And here's why. It's very simple when you understand it this way. If you're Mark Zuckerberg and your goal of Facebook and Instagram is you make money from ads. That's how that whole platform works, right? That's why it's free for everyone. And you say, how do we make it where everyone can run ads? Because his problem six years ago is ads were too complicated and everyone had to hire an agency. So he had a broken business model. Because his business model depended on agencies doing their job and getting clients. So he goes, how do I make it so simple that Bob the builder doesn't need to hire an agency? Bob the builder can open up his phone, click boost post and start getting leads for his building service. So they've made it now that the AI is so good and the setup is so easy that pretty much anyone can run ads. The difference between a successful ad and a non successful ad is everything else. It's how good is the creative, how good is the Video. How good is the first five seconds? How good is the headline? Do you know your avatar and you're targeting the right people? Do they go to a landing page that actually does everything we just talked about? And is it an appropriate landing page? Not trying to sell a $12,000 jet ski? Is it selling come and ride a jet ski for free, free trial on a lake or something like that? An event, right. Something that's easier to get into. So I know that answers a bit out the box. It's not actually about the ad, but that's a big mindset shift that everyone needs. If you go create this viral video, Mr. Beast style and go make 10 variations, because not every single one's going to work and upload them in the ad manager, you're probably going to have more success than hiring 20 different agencies to set up your ads with a crappy image that doesn't do much.
- [43:06]
A
So I think one of the mistakes that I made also with paid ads is that I didn't start internally first, right? I hired this consultant agency and I wasn't that involved. So what advice do you have for entrepreneurs in terms of like their first campaign, paid ads, campaign, how involved should they be or should they not be?
- [43:25]
B
Look, I've had an agency for many years. I think agencies can be great. But the problem with the agency model in general is a couple of things. You know your avatar, you know your copy best, you know all your creatives best. Second problem is there is a big timeline between starting cold traffic, your journey into cold traffic, or advertising, and finding success. And what I've noticed the problem with agencies is and customers, right? And this is no one's fault, this is just life in general is that timeline to find success is probably like three to six months if you've got a really good agency, good offer and good brand. And it's probably 12 months if you have an average offer, product and brand, which most people have less than average or an average if you're starting out. That's just the truth, right? Me and you, I'd say we have a great brand, but it would still take us three to six months to find success. And if you're paying five, ten grand a month for an agency plus ad spend, you're probably not going to sit through six months of losing and failing and not finding winners to even get to the part of success that it takes. I launch a celebrity brand and I tell them, hey, if we crack the code in three months, it's great when I bring on clients in our coaching Programs, I tell them, hey, in six months, if we crack the code, that's great because the first half of the year it's building the funnels, the offers, the landing pages, all those steps, it's split, testing it, it's starting to try ads. It's finding the winners. So when you're looking for an agency, you want one that a understands the whole ecosystem. Everything I talked about, not just the ads. If they only look at the ads and they don't talk about your landing page and your offer and your creatives, probably not going to work unless you're a genius on all that stuff. And the second thing is expectations. Going into it, knowing that it's going to take six months to even find success and investing in that, right? If you launch a podcast or you launch a YouTube channel, you don't expect to be Mr. Beast next week. But for some reason, sadly, with ads, and probably everyone sees ads and sees it as successful, you got to realize it's 612 months to get there. And it's like looking at an NBA basketball player saying, how are you so good? It's 20 years of playing before you see them on the court. So I think it's timeline, it's expectations and it's finding an agency, a media buyer that understands everything, not just the ads.
- [45:43]
A
This was like a masterclass. And direct response, last question on direct response. And then I want to get into some general entrepreneurship questions. What about the metrics? Are there any certain benchmarks we should be looking at, certain metrics we should be calculating? When we're doing this, we track everything.
- [45:58]
B
We have like a 12 page dashboard. We have a 30 minute call every day in the morning at 9am Eastern. My whole team going through every stat for every celebrity. And for my own brand, the metrics leave clues, right? It's kind of like blood work for the body. If you're sick and tired and you don't know why, you get blood work and you find you have a deficiency or a disease or a parasite or something. I would say I'm like a world class doctor, right? Maybe after 15 years I can look at someone even without blood work and say, oh well, because I've seen 20,000 people like you, I think you've probably got this or this. But let's get blood work to just verify it. If you're not and you don't have that experience, then all you have is the data to make decisions. So when you're running ads to sell a product or a program, one thing that's important is Your cost per click, it's going to vary between industry and country that you're advertising in. But generally you want like a 2 to $5 cost per click if you're advertising in America to sell a product. Now that's if you're selling a product. If you're doing it to boost a post, it's going to be way cheaper. Next is your click through rate. So that's how many people actually click it out of 100 if you're selling a product or a service. Again, generally you want this at around 1% if you're getting people to download a free book or attend a webinar, can maybe be 3, 4, 5%. And then finally it's the landing page conversion rate. Right? So how many people view the page and actually buy the product? Generally 3 to 5% is a great rule of thumb for cold traffic, people that don't know you, warm traffic, it's maybe 10%. It's all going to vary dependent on the price. How many people buy Lamborghinis? Well, a lot less buy them, but the ticket price is 10 times more than a Toyota. So you've also got to understand how that's going to change from a basic level dependent on price and volume and the ltv.
- [47:46]
A
And all of this matters a lot as well, right?
- [47:48]
B
Yeah. Lifetime value. Easy way to understand that is I say who here has an iPhone? Okay, well most you have an iPhone. How much are you going to spend on Apple in your lifetime? Pause. Think about a number for a second. 10, 20, 50, $100,000? Apple doesn't make money on the first thousand dollars sale. It makes money for the next 30 years. Right. All the biggest and best brands in the world do that. And I even challenge people on stage. I say name me $1 billion company that only ever sells to you one time. And I've never had anyone. Someone told me one time yacht companies and I said, look, if you ever owned a boat, it breaks all the time. So you're going to be paying that company for new parts and repairs. And every few years you're going to buy a bigger yacht because your best friend got one bigger than you. So you're going to be upgrading that yacht. You're going to be buying more than once, I don't know, $1 billion brand that only sells one time to someone.
- [48:40]
A
I love that so much. This is so, so valuable. Where can people learn more about direct response, specifically from you?
- [48:47]
B
We have tons of free courses, programs, social media, Instagram again, start on social media. Take some of the free content, then we have a lot of options where we don't make much money from it. All of these twenty fifty hundred dollar products. And again, that goal, and this is very transparent, the goal there is to show you the value, show you know what we're on about, give you some quick wins and then hopefully progress you into our world. But yeah, I would just start on social media, get some free content, see if you like the red or not. You might get sick of the red too quickly. But yeah, and look, there's lots of great podcasts out there, there's lots of great other books out there on marketing. So the good thing about the world we live in today is the information's out there. You've just got to learn how to digest it and then action it.
- [49:31]
A
We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Yeah, fam, if you're anything like me, you didn't start your business to spend all your time managing finances, Budgeting, invoicing and tax prep. Not exactly the fun part of entrepreneurship. My CEO Jason, on the other hand, is great at finances, but even he doesn't want to switch between five different apps for banking, expense tracking and contractor payments. We wanted a tool that could just do it all. And guess what? We found one. And yes, it's called Found. Found is an all in one financial tool made for entrepreneurs and solopreneurs. Found handles everything business banking, bookkeeping, invoicing, vendor payments, and even tax planning. No more juggling multiple apps. Found does it all in one place with smart features like automatic expense tracking, virtual cards for specific budgets, and no hidden fees or minimum balances. Found helps us stay organized and save time. Plus, signing up is quick and easy. No paperwork or credit checks required. Join the 500,000 small business owners who trust Found. Get your business banking working for you. Try Found for free@found.com profiting stop getting lost in countless finance apps and try Found for free at found.com profiting Sign up for Found for free at F o u n d.com profiting found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Piermont bank member fdic. Found's core features are free. They also offer an optional paid product, Found plus what's up? Yeah fam. I travel so much for my job these days and on top of that, I've been spending more time in Miami. In fact, I'll be down there keeping myself warm most of the winter. I love to travel, but at the same time I feel like my glamorous Jersey City apartment with its pink velvet couch and skyline view of the city, it's just going to waste. But what if it didn't have to? A lot of people don't realize that they might have an Airbnb of their own right under their noses. You can host your whole place or spare room when you're out of town. So many of my successful friends host and it's such an amazing way to generate passive income. And now you can also hire a co host to make the job easier than ever, especially if you're going to be away for an extended period of time. Vetted by Airbnb, co hosts have experience in the hosting space and can help with your bookings, manage reservations, provide on site support and more for your investment properties. So if you're escaping to the warm weather this winter, like me, find yourself a co host@airbnb.com host young and profits Buy low, sell high it's easy to say, but it's hard to do. For example, high interest rates are crushing the real estate market right now. Demand is dropping and prices are falling even for many of the best assets. It's no wonder the Fundrise Flagship Fund plans to go on a buying spree, expanding its billion dollar real estate portfolio over the next few months. You can add the Fundrise Flagship Fund to your portfolio in just minutes with as little as $10 by visiting fundrise.comprofiting that's f u n d r I s e.com profiting again, you can diversify your portfolio with the fundrise flagship fund@fundrise.com profiting that's f u n d r I s e.com profiting carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the Fund's prospectus@fundrise.com flagship. This is a paid advertisement. So moving on to entrepreneurship, me and you have something in common. Where marketers turned CEOs entrepreneurs. What has been some of your biggest challenges? Going from marketer to now scaling all these businesses?
- [53:25]
B
If you ask anyone that's grown big companies, it's the people, right? It's always the people. I was lucky to become the CEO of a company with 300 employees for about a year. And then I grew my own company to about a peak last year, about 110 people, which is amazing and horrible at the same time. But look, once you get beyond 10 or 20 people or staff, it moves from you doing everything to you doing virtually nothing and just controlling the system, right? You're controlling the people, you're checking in on the people and you're building the systems and frameworks for success. And if you're someone like me and you, you're also having to still be the face of the brand, right? You're the one flying to the events. You know I landed at 2am last night from Los Angeles, right. And I'm back on the morning call at 9am giving my updates. So yeah, I think it's the juggling the people and the systems and the frameworks while still being the front facing person and growing the brand.
- [54:23]
A
And what are some of the daily habits that you have that help you stay focused, productive, motivated?
- [54:28]
B
I train every day right now I'm actually training a lot because I'm training for Iron man. So I'm training twice a day. I came from exercise background. I apart from a couple of years gap, I've exercised my whole life and that's a great one. I always start my day with sunshine, hence why I live in Miami. But I do think there's a big benefit to waking up naturally, getting a good night's sleep and then starting your day with natural light. And there's a lot of science behind that too. I personally, and not everyone has to do this, but I personally, I fast as well. I have great energy when I fast and just have caffeine in the day. So that's like my personal side. On the business side, I'm very organized. So I do all my calls between 8 and 12 and I have four hours of calls, which is a lot. But that's literally how I run my entire business and check in with all my departments. And you got to remember, I have a big main company that does about 10 million a year. And then I have like six companies with celebrities that are full companies I'm running. So I know that sounds like a lot, but we're actually doing in a lot more than just one company. And all those meetings are organized, structured. Every project is broken down every KPI. So that's how I run the meeting side and then I just delegate as much as I can. I don't check my own emails. I have a Slack channel for it and I have an assistant put anything important in there. I have my managers responsible for key areas. Every Wednesday, actually just before filming this, I have an hour's KPI call where I have my 10 department heads. Come on. They all get six minutes each and they all share the key KPIs that we've built within that department. So I know all my finances and all the celebrity finances and where all the money went that week. I see my sales teams and all their KPIs and close rate and revenue per call. I see ad spend for every celebrity in my own brand. I see total sales. I see customer service and inbox open rate and reply time per staff member and how many emails per staff member. And I see social media, how many shares every post got and views every post got. Everything is broken down in that one and a half hours that I do on a Wednesday. So I've built these systems to run things really efficiently and manage everything.
- [56:40]
A
Amazing. No wonder that you're doing so well. So my last question to you before we close this out is just general advice, especially for my male listeners. I actually am pretty unique where most of my listeners are male and they're in their 30s.
- [56:54]
B
That's why so many people want to marry you, right?
- [56:56]
A
Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. I mean, I have all these female podcast influencers. All their following is like 99% women. And somehow I'm mostly male listeners. What's your advice to them? Because a lot of young males are actually struggling. You are an anomaly. There's not that many young males like you. There's more women who are doing really cool stuff lately. And there's, of course, men who are crushing it. But what do you have to say to the men out there who are trying to find their feet right now?
- [57:25]
B
Well, I'll start by just. And you ended that sentence when I talked about all my KPIs and meetings and say, that's why you crush it. And I want to be very transparent. I always am. Yes, on paper, financially, business I do very well. But, guys, I get punched in the face every day. And the bigger you get, the worse it is. I got two employees stealing from me that I'm having to sue right now. I've had employees trying destroy a business. I have people trying to sue you for random things that you had nothing to do with. You have a processor shut down because one of our celebrity brands changed bank accounts and it froze $400,000 of my own money. Yes, I love my life. My businesses are amazing. But entrepreneurs get punched in the face every day. I think a mutual friend, Dave Meltzer, a good friend of mine, he said that the other day when I was chatting with him and actually having him on my podcast. And it's so true, I think, especially if you're trying to do big things. Look, if you want a nice lifestyle, I think the nicest lifestyles make 30, 4050 grand a month. One or two vas. If I ever wanted to retire, that's all I would do. When you go to my level, you get to 100 employees, you make less money than when I had 10 employees. You have 10 times more stress. But I'm one of the few crazy ones that wants to win the gold medal, right? So it's like risk reward. So I think just understand, like, if you're listening to this, you see all these people on social media, and I even know a lot of the celebrities, right, that I work with. There's always someone's trying to sue them for something stupid or it's just like it's never ending. It's. Life's never easy, I don't think. And the more extraordinary you try and be in life and the more greatness or out the box you try and achieve, the harder life can become. But I think having a purpose and a passion and a reason for doing all that gets you through it. And then I think also just managing your mind and brain. I'm very good at, like, I don't get stressed. I understand that stuff's happening because I used to game as a kid, and so I see everything like a big challenge is like the final boss on the end of a computer game level that you have to kill, and then you get to go to the next level of the computer game. So a lot of it is your perception of reality and how you handle these things. So if you're listening to this, understand you're probably going through a bunch of shit. Everyone else's. It's never going to end. That's called life. But how you perceive it, handle it, and move through it is going to dictate your success in life. And then understand that. I really do think most people can achieve pretty much anything they want in life within reason. But they have to believe in themselves and they have to work hard and they have to hustle and grind and never give up.
- [59:56]
A
It's hard work. If you want to do big things, it's going to be lots of work. It means you got to work a lot of hours, you got to wake up early, you got to be disciplined and become an expert in what you want to do. So, Rudy, this was such an awesome conversation. I feel like you dropped so much value. I end my show with two questions that I ask all my guests. What is one actionable thing our young and profits can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?
- [60:22]
B
I actually think the good one is go work under someone that's ultra successful. If you go intern for six months or work under a study or even buy their courses and stuff. You can take so much knowledge from someone that spent 20 years doing this that in six months you'll be like 10 times smarter. And then you can go learn and implement that, make a bunch of money. That's how I've always become successful. Whatever I'm trying to master, I go learn from someone whether I have to pay them or back when I was younger, I would just go work for them for free or whatever just to be around them. So that would be probably, I think, one of the greatest hacks in life for advancing.
- [60:57]
A
And what would you say your secret to profiting in life is while profiting in life?
- [61:03]
B
For me it's always reflection and trying to be the best version of myself. So I break life down into five buckets, right? So I have business and money, I have my health, right? I have hobbies, I have family, and then I have friendship and my peers. I'm yet to get to a point I always say this where I've mastered all five. Generally I'm very good at getting like three really good. And then two of them start to drop and it's like learning to juggle. So I'm always reflecting on those five buckets and you know, like right now, my health and training for this Ironman is one of the best it's ever been. But then one side slips and now I'm like, okay, so now I gotta like figure this out, fix this and get this going again. So, yeah, for me it's for profiting overall in life. It's trying to juggle what I think your core needs are as a human being. And for me, it's those five. For you it might be something different or you might lose one of those buckets and add one. But yeah, I think that's a good framework to use.
- [61:58]
A
Yeah, I love the analogy of juggling. It's so true. It's really hard to manage it all. But you just try to do your best. So Rudy, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?
- [62:08]
B
Because I spent 10 years growing my brand, I'm easy to Google and I always teach people. So one last tip as I leave you today, Google yourself because that's what your customers do in. And check your own socials because that's what they're doing before they buy. But Google me, Rudy Moore. I have an Amazon TV show on Amazon prime called 60 Day Hustle Instagram, Rudy More Life podcast, Living the Red Life. So you'll be able to find me. Just look for the red.
- [62:32]
A
Amazing Rudy. Thanks so much. It's always a pleasure. Hey guys, I think what really stood out to me in this interview, besides just Rudy's red attire, is how good he is at standing out from the crowd. He's mastered the art of being memorable, and sometimes that is half the battle. In the branding game, wearing red all the time and having your entire staff wear red, it may seem like a gimmick, but it gets people's attention and standing out for whatever reason makes a difference, especially when you're playing in a very crowded market. So always be thinking about what we can do in order to be remembered. Is it a color, a slogan, dancing and TikTok videos? If you were a WWE wrestler or personality, what would your trademark be like? Rudy said the critical question is what do people know you for? What do they come to you for? What are you an expert in? What do you rule as a category? King or queen or princess in my case? Rudy also has some advice for paid ads, which I personally have struggled to master in the past. They are difficult and when you go into cold traffic, he said, you're essentially starting a second business and it just takes time, however successful you've been in other funnels. So for example, my success organically when it comes to paid ads, it's a whole new ballgame. But remember that people are selfish and you have to tell them upfront and in a few seconds how they will benefit from what you're offering. How is it going to change their life? Start from there and then work backwards and once you get that first date, then ask them for a second one. And if you need to keep asking them, as in dating and other areas of life, it's awfully hard to say yes if you're never asked. Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting. I'm going to ask you something right now and if you listen, learned and profited from this conversation with the brilliant and very red Rudy Moore. Please share this episode with somebody who doesn't want free marketing and branding advice from one of the best in the business. And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then drop us a five star review on Apple Podcast. What did you learn? Did you love it? Did you like it? Do you listen to YAP every day? Let me know in your review on Apple Spotify. Wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you prefer to watch your podcast as videos, you can Find us on YouTube. I'm doing a lot more in person video content. So the channel is getting more and more engaging. You can also find me on Instagram or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Halataha. And I did want to shout out my amazing production team. You guys are awesome. Thank you for all that you do. This is your host, Halataha, AKA the podcast Princess, signing off.