← Young and Profiting with Hala Taha
Young and Profiting with Hala Taha
Yung Pueblo: How Self-Healing Unlocks Success in Business and Relationships | Mental Health | E341
01:09:24
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- [00:00]
Hala Taha
I'm starting this New Year in Texas, y'all. Well, I still need to work on the y'all part, but I've taken a big leap into the unknown and booked a beautiful Airbnb here in Austin. And so many entrepreneurs that I know love it here. And I'm gonna see if I love it here as well. And so far, so good. And while I still have to make a decision if I want to live here in Texas permanently, one decision I've already made is what to do with my new pad when I'm not in it. And that's hosting it on Airbnb. Of course. The thing is, when it comes to hosting my place on Airbnb, I don't really want to worry about the hosting part. I'm so busy with my company and podcast, I couldn't possibly put another thing on my plate. And plus, you know me, I love to delegate, especially if it saves me time and money. And now with Airbnb's new co host network, I can just do that when it comes to my place. That's right, hosting just got a whole lot easier with Airbnb's co host network. You can hire a high quality local co host to take care of your home and guests vetted on Airbnb. Co hosts have knowledge in the hosting space and can help get your investment properties set up for you. Imagine having someone who can handle reservations, guest communication, and on site support for you so that you can handle other things like your own business, y'all. It's never been easier to host or co host your home on Airbnb. Find yourself a co host@airbnb.com host collectively.
- [01:30]
Diego Perez
Misery has gone out of style. I grew up really poor. I was being so deeply imprinted with sadness. And what I ended up doing was try to numb myself so that I wouldn't have to be aware of my own pain. But when I started meditating, there was this idea of internal liberation. Literally the freedom from misery. The misery that we cause ourselves. And then when you life changes dramatically after that.
- [01:55]
Hala Taha
If we're dating, how do you think we should choose the person?
- [01:58]
Diego Perez
It's not so much about the other person, but it's about how you feel when you're with them.
- [02:04]
Hala Taha
How can we tell if somebody's actually ready to be in a loving relationship? A lot of that is you have 3 million followers. What tips do you have for entrepreneurs that are trying to become creators on Instagram or any platform?
- [02:16]
Diego Perez
Tip number one is foreign.
- [02:35]
Hala Taha
Are you ready to thrive instead of just merely survive? My Guest today has a beautiful ability to inspire and help people find their inner strength. Diego Perez is a poet, speaker and bestselling author, widely known on social media through his pen name, Young Pueblo. His brand new book is called how to Love Better. And in today's episode, he's gonna share some tips on everything from self healing to healthy relationships to how to stay grounded as an entrepreneur in challenging times. Diego, welcome to Young and Profiting podcast.
- [03:06]
Diego Perez
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
- [03:08]
Hala Taha
I'm so pumped to be here. I've been waiting for this interview for a long time offline. I was just asking you, like, can I call you Diego? And you're like, yeah, of course. And I asked that because your pen name on social media is Young Pueblo and that means young people in Spanish. Why did you decide to move through the world with that pen name? What does it mean to you and how does it relate to all the work that you do?
- [03:29]
Diego Perez
Yeah, it took on a lot of meaning over time. I initially put that name together just because it was like an honor to my Ecuadorian roots, because I was born in Ecuador but grew up in the United States. And as I started meditating, I started realizing that I'm really immature. I have a lot of growing to do. But I've also been a big fan of history. I've been studying history since I could read. And I saw that humanity as a whole, like, we don't know the basic fundamentals that we try to teach children. When a child is like three or four years old, we're trying to teach them how to clean up after themselves, how to share, to not hit each other, to tell the truth, to be generally kind to each other. And these are things that individuals may have mastered, but as a human collective, we haven't mastered these things at all. So the name Young Pueblo, to me, it's more so a reminder to me personally to just remember that humanity is in this moment of maturing, in a great transition.
- [04:24]
Hala Taha
It's so interesting when I read that, I was thinking, we think we're so tech savvy, we've got AI coming out, we're driving in cars, going in the air, in airplanes, but then we don't even have control over ourselves and we have no idea how to control our minds. Yeah, exactly. So it's so interesting. So you're saying young people, like humanity is young and there's so much room for improvement.
- [04:47]
Diego Perez
And I think that it's interesting to me that there are so many people, literally millions of people out There who are meditating, millions of people who are using different forms of therapy. And it almost feels like collectively we're just, you know, like misery has gone out of style. We're exhausted by misery. And we're like, okay, I want to figure out how to feel better, whether that's in my mind or in my body.
- [05:12]
Hala Taha
Yeah. And I know that you're doing so much good work now, and you're so popular on social media, you've got so many bestselling books. But before you were this famous young pueblo, you were an activist. And I'm actually very into activism. I'm Palestinian. So, like, I really respect that. That's how you came up. So talk to us about what kind of work that you did in the activism world.
- [05:33]
Diego Perez
I was really fortunate, you know. So I grew up in Boston and I grew up really poor. When I think about what my major trauma was, it was literally just struggling through poverty with my family. My mom, she worked cleaning houses. My dad, he worked at a supermarket. So we were stuck in a very classic American poverty trap. And I was fortunate to get connected with this youth organizing group called BYOP and that was based in Boston. And what we did was basically just learn how to organize ourselves, Literally bring people together around a common cause. And then we would go to different schools and ask students, what do you want to change about your school? And they would either focus on changing different policies. One time we had a citywide campaign where we changed the guidance counselor policy. Another citywide campaign where we helped all the young people in the city get free passes so that they can go to school. Because there were so many young people who were impoverished in the city of Boston that it costs money to take the transit system. But it was really empowering to see if there's something that we want, we can organize around it and make it happen. And that was a great lesson to learn at 15, 16 years old.
- [06:43]
Hala Taha
And so you were doing all this work externally trying to help other people, but inside you weren't having inner peace. You were broken inside and you had some self destructive habits. So talk to us about that.
- [06:55]
Diego Perez
Yeah, I think that was the interesting part. When I was in high school, growing up, the group that I was with, byop, we were constantly winning. We would win campaign after campaign. And I internally still did not feel good. And when I went to university, when I got there, it really came to a head where growing up and being a part of that constant struggle, it was so challenging that I was oblivious to the fact that it was placing such big Imprints on my mind. I was being so deeply imprinted with sadness, with anxiety, with a scarcity mindset. And I had no way of processing my emotions. You know, this is a very pre wellness world. When I got to university, it was 2006 to 2010. And what I ended up doing was I could feel the tension in my body. But what I would try to do was how can I avoid it as fast as possible? And the best way was to drink and to smoke and to do different drugs and just try to numb myself so that I wouldn't have to be aware of my own pain.
- [07:52]
Hala Taha
And at a certain point you felt burnout and you found meditation. So talk to us about your first retreat and how that changed your approach to life.
- [08:01]
Diego Perez
I was really fortunate that one of my best friends who I used to be crazy with, we were crazy together in college. He was traveling through India and did a silent 10 day meditation course. And he ended up writing an email to me and a few other friends all about love, compassion and goodwill. And I was like shocked, you know, cause this is the same person I used to party with all the time. And now he's trying to talk to me about the importance of love and goodwill. But it was at such a good moment because I knew that I was done with the drugs. I wanted to build a new life for myself. I wanted to just reset my life and really focus on growing. And when I got to that silent 10 day course, it was very challenging. I found it quite difficult. It was the summer of 2012. It was hard to like always be there because you're there, you're silent and you're feeling whatever's coming up. And I could feel the tension, the anxiety, all those things that I used to run away from. But I noticed that when the retreat was over, my mind felt lighter, undeniably lighter. And I was shocked by it. I was just like, is this real? Like is this really. Do I really feel better? I just kept going back and it's been wonderful. So I started with 10 day retreats and now I'll go away still to 10 day courses, but also 20, 30, 45 days long. And I've put a lot of energy into really investing in my mind.
- [09:21]
Hala Taha
And this is specifically called vipassana meditation. Can you explain how it's different from other types of meditation?
- [09:28]
Diego Perez
This is one of the many different types of vipassana. This one is taught by SN Goenka. He's an Indian man of Burmese descent. And he basically was given this technique by another man, UBA kin. And it basically originates from the Buddhist teaching. And what's really powerful about it is that Vipassana teaches you how to see reality as it is. And one thing that became really clear when I started meditating was that I'm not actually looking at reality clearly. What's happening is that all the things that I felt in the past, they're really clogging up my perception. They're making me see the present through the lens of the past. And that makes it really hard to make good decisions, be able to really connect with people. And I think that's one of the powerful things, is that if you can train the mind. Because when I go to these retreats, it feels like I'm going to the mental gym. We're literally cultivating the qualities of awareness, cultivating non reaction, cultivating compassion. And then when you make these qualities that are within everyone's minds but they're not necessarily strong, you have to make them stronger. Life changes dramatically after that.
- [10:33]
Hala Taha
So if I understand it correctly, a lot of it is based on detaching yourself from your own emotions so that you can see the world clearly.
- [10:42]
Diego Perez
I would say even a little more subtle. You are feeling your emotions without reacting to them. It's almost like you're creating space to just observe them as opposed to suppressing it or letting the emotions swallow you up. So there's a very subtle middle ground. It teaches you that things aren't just black and white. There's a gray area.
- [11:02]
Hala Taha
So you talk a lot about internal liberation, inner peace. Can you first explain to us what do you mean by that? Having inner peace, liberating yourself.
- [11:13]
Diego Perez
It's cool too, talking with you about it because you have the context from the activist background. So there's always this idea of liberation, right? Constantly, where so many groups of people have come together to either make certain values true or to break the chains of oppressors and whatnot and just recreate their history. I was always fascinated by that idea. And when I started meditating, there was this idea of internal liberation, literally the freedom from suffering, the freedom from misery and the misery that we cause ourselves. And a lot of that, that's what shocked me. Because it's true when you're moving through life, sometimes there are people who hurt you and that affects you deeply. But ultimately the person who hurt you is not going to heal you. And what's really causing a lot of tension in your mind is your own perception and your own reaction to that heaviness that's inside you. So I'm grateful That I've been walking on this path because it really ultimately helps you stop all that craving, all that aversion, and just helps you observe and act as opposed to react.
- [12:20]
Hala Taha
And how do you feel that helping other people get this inner peace, liberating themselves, how do you feel that's going to help transform the world so that there's more peace and people are less harmful to each other and we have a thriving society that's not so violent?
- [12:37]
Diego Perez
What I'm really hoping, and I think what I've seen in myself and in others, is that if you really focus on the internal dynamic, because this happens often to a lot of people who are activists and are out there trying to change the world for the better, is that it quickly leads to burnout because you are not healing the tension and the rough parts of your own ego. And I like the historical example of the French Revolution where there were people who had really powerful ideals, wanted to create a republic, give people power, and then once they killed the king, a massacre happened. And it's interesting where there is always a chance that if you are working towards something that is good, but if you don't heal yourself, you end up recreating the thing that you were once fighting against. And power has this ability to. It almost functions like a magnet and it just pulls out the rough parts of the ego. And you see this historically, people are trying to change the world for the better and then they get power. And it's like, whoa, what happened to that person? And I think that's why these two things need to move side by side where you're dealing with your issues, you're cultivating your self love. Because if your self love is real, if it's actually real, it's not just about you. It opens the door to unconditional love for all beings. It's not perfect unconditional love, but it opens that door. And I think that's really important for people to realize. Once you start really observing yourself and you see that struggle, you know, wow, other people are struggling just like me, and you start having more compassion for them.
- [14:11]
Hala Taha
Somebody told me a quote yesterday. I don't know why it's reminding me of this, but I was talking about getting wealthy and I was like, you know, people who get a lot of power get a lot of wealth. I feel like they end up making bad decisions, becoming worse people. And then the person told me, well, when you get wealthy, you just become more of who you are. It's like an amplifier. So it's just interesting to think People who get power if they aren't self aware and they don't have compassion, that can just compound into something really negative.
- [14:43]
Diego Perez
It's really true because then you can make anything you want happen and then that could just bring out all the evils.
- [14:49]
Hala Taha
Talk to us about your journey on Instagram. So you have 3 million followers. You weren't a marketer before you started Instagram. Talk to us about how you first got the idea to start sharing what you were learning on Instagram.
- [15:04]
Diego Perez
It's a really interesting journey and I've been following your page for a while and I love the way you market. So before I get into all this, because I want to hear your insights as well. My journey with Instagram, I felt intuitively like after I had meditated a few courses, I knew that I wasn't perfectly wise or perfectly healed, nothing like that, right? But I knew that stuff was changing inside me and I felt better. So I thought, okay, let me reflect. Because I could feel my intuition pushing me. You should write even though you don't know everything. Just reflect, reflect openly. And I was really inspired by the first generation Instagram poets, because the first generation Instagram, they weren't long form writers, they were poets. And it was RM Drake and Rupi Kaur and they were sharing their stuff in simple black and white images. So I thought to myself, I'm like, oh, let me just go out there and reflect. And I knew that I had a very different message from them because they all, they each have their own unique message. But let me also adopt that format of that simple black and white imagery. And it was really powerful. I think once I started sharing, it was awesome, like sharing little poems or main themes from what I was writing about and people would write in the captions. And that was back in the day where it almost felt like the Instagram conversation was healthier. People were just really kind to each other and it took time. It took time for, I think between 2014 to 2017, that's when I got up to a hundred thousand followers. It took three years. And then something happened in 2017 where it just really started picking up and it was a big jump. I think from 2017-20, I would say like 2019, where it got up to like 500,000 and then it just kept growing from there.
- [16:50]
Hala Taha
What do you think that turning point was? Do you think it was people were ready to receive that type of information and it was just becoming more in trend to talk about self healing and things like that.
- [17:00]
Diego Perez
I think it was definitely a lot of right place, right time. I was also interested in the topics of self love. I was also interested in letting go. I wanted to add my part to the conversation. And I noticed that right off the bat, people are looking for things to share. So if you ever want to grow a page, the main thing that you have to do is just create shareable content. And that's very different from just taking a picture of your face. People aren't going to share that. Or taking a picture of your trip to Paris. People aren't going to share that. But if you bring forward whatever knowledge you have, whatever thing that you're reflecting on and you put it together, then there's a chance for people to share it in their story or share it on their grid. And that's where things really grow. And I think what really kept things growing was the consistency of it. You know, I would post every day, once a day, for years. And I think the only day that I skip is Thanksgiving and Mother's Day because everyone's posting so you know, no one's gonna see anything.
- [18:04]
Hala Taha
Yeah, I feel like consistency is so huge for you. So consistency in terms of the frequency, in terms of what people can expect from your page with your topics, in terms of the format that you typically post. And I love that you're not just chasing trends and the algorithm and something that I always teach, I'm a big influencer on LinkedIn and I teach LinkedIn a lot. I always say it's not about the algorithm, it's about human behavior. Human behavior always beats the algorithm. And like you said, being highly shareable. And when you're talking about things like self love and writing poetry and posting things that make people reflect, they wanna share it with their own thoughts, they wanna share it with their own stories, it triggers their emotions, it triggers them to comment, it triggers them to write their two cents. Right? So it's like these universal emotions that you're tapping into that's really triggering people to engage. So I just think what you've done is absolutely incredible.
- [18:58]
Diego Perez
That's when you know that you've created a good piece of content. Cause I write poetry a lot less now. Now I just put together whatever my main ideas are or any thoughts that come to mind. I've noticed something that's really interesting is when I release something on substack, I'll write an essay somewhere between like 500 or 800 words, but very quickly I'll share it. And then people will take that essay and turn it into content. They'll quote you, but Then they'll just take pieces of it and then they'll expand on it from their own perspective. And it's like if you put something out there that inspires someone else to create content, it's good.
- [19:36]
Hala Taha
And I feel like having a signature style can be a really great advantage because people almost take it. Like it's like a habit. Like, oh, I'm getting Young Pueblo's quote of the day. And this is what I share every day. And this is my favorite creator. And I know exactly what to expect. People think they need to like, change it up all the time. And while there is some sensory adaptation in social media, if you have really good, meaningful content, sometimes just doing the same thing over and over again will make you become a habit for people.
- [20:06]
Diego Perez
Yeah. It even comes down to, like, changing fonts is a big deal. Like, you gotta be really careful cause it's part of your brand and that's how people recognize you because they're recognizing you almost subconsciously. Because there's literally what every one of us experiences on a daily basis is that there's a war on our attention. Everyone is battling for your attention, everyone. So as someone's scrolling, they'll almost like subconsciously quickly recognize. Even before they even see your name, they'll like, oh, the font and everything. They're like, oh, this is something that I normally would give five seconds to. And then they give you their time. I even got to the point where I was with a particular font for I think from 2017 to like 2020, and then that phone was falling apart. The app that I got the font from, you know, I couldn't get the actual font and I was like, dang, I just need to let it go. And I had to make the jump. And it took a little while for people to get used to it, but there are always going to be dips. It's fine. It's totally natural. Your algorithm is not going to be perfect all the time. It's going to have highs and lows. So you just deal with it. And then over time, if you're still giving value to the audience, they'll respond to that.
- [21:19]
Hala Taha
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- [26:17]
Diego Perez
Tip number one is that you have to be ready to be consistent at a relentless level. There's just no way around it. No one gets big from one post. That's just totally an illusion. It's like a bunch of tiny little victories. And even when you have a massive celebrity who shares your stuff, that's great. But what's much more valuable is someone who shares your stuff who has 200 people who follow them. And having a lot of people who have smaller accounts who support you. That feels really key. So I think Sometimes we have this idea where if this one giant celebrity shares my stuff, it'll change everything. It really won't. It helps, but it's not everything. So you have to be ready for consistency and then you have to learn what 15 to 20% of your knowledge base that you feel really good about sharing, that connects with an audience and makes that audience excited. Because for each one of us. Right. Like I mentioned earlier, like, I really love history. I don't write about history. That's not going to excite anybody. I'm also not like a professional at it. My strength is putting out self reflective material and I think finding what is your 15, 20% that you want to share and then see if you can turn that into a product.
- [27:33]
Hala Taha
I feel like you're touching on something really important. It's like lasering in on key topics because we were talking about algorithms. That's actually how you train the algorithm. So for example, my show is really broad. It's all about entrepreneurship, which doesn't work in my favor on Instagram because I'm talking about finance, then I'm talking about entrepreneurship, then I'm talking about marketing, then I'm talking about. If I only talked about sales, Instagram would know exactly who to send my content to all the time. So picking a focus and being really strategic, you don't need just one. But picking things that you focus on, on social media. Yeah. 3. Yeah. Is really important. How do you think about monetizing your audience? You know, you come across as somebody so authentic you don't even want to make money off your audience. Right. So how do you think about it?
- [28:16]
Diego Perez
I'm trying to be really careful about it. You know, I monetize through selling books. That's how I make my money through the year. And I also, like, I'm in the process of building businesses as well, which is like a different thing. It's almost like separate to the Instagram. Like I can help promote these things, but I'm not directly monetizing through them. So I've never been big on selling courses or anything like that simply because I understand why some people get a bad rep where they sell a course for like 6,000 bucks. Like, no, you know, very few people have 6,000 bucks. And then are you really giving them enough value for something that's that expensive? So to me, I rather reach more people and make sure that if I'm ever asking them to pay for anything that it's the minimum amount because I just rather have more people come. So, like, if I have an event, I make sure that to buy the ticket, it's the minimum amount. And some cities are more expensive than others. In Boston, the tickets are $39. In New York City, they're $60, because that's the market. But I'm not charging $200 a ticket or anything like that. I think to me, just especially coming from my background, accessibility has always been really important. And economics is almost the first trend of accessibility, where it's like, can you even pay to get in? And same thing with the substack. You know, if you want to sign up for my paid substack, it's $5 a month. And I just rather have more people. And I think what I've learned is that if I give away a lot of good quality things for free, people will be interested in buying the book. I'm getting closer to selling almost 2 million books. And a lot of that is because I give so much away for free on Instagram.
- [29:53]
Hala Taha
And when it comes to monetizing, you have so many different levers for you. You're like, okay, I'm going to go with volume. I want to increase my impressions and charge really little. And I can make the same amount of money if I just reach more people. So I love that approach. So let's talk about self healing for entrepreneurs. Like I told you, we've got a lot of entrepreneurs listening. What are some initial signs that you need to work on your inner healing?
- [30:20]
Diego Perez
I think if you're always responding to people with tension in your voice, different levels of stress, where you're going from really stressed to like a little bit stress. And if you're finding difficulty in the joy of creating, like if you're not really connecting with that joy of creating. Because I think that's why a lot of entrepreneurs build businesses. You see a gap in the market and then you think to yourself, oh, how fun would it be to build this thing? It's not just for the paycheck at the end or the moment when you sell your company. I think the actual process of creation, it can be so fun. If you look at really high performers, there's just so many people like Sam Altman, he meditates like so many others. You know, who are people who are VPs at Google that created all the products that we use today? A bunch of them meditate, you know, so there's a lot of people are finding different ways of taking care of themselves because there's a big relationship between tension and creativity. So if your mind is really, really tense, you're not going to be as creative as you can be. But if you are able to process that tension, then your creativity is going to go up.
- [31:29]
Hala Taha
Another thing that you talk about is emotional maturity. And I think being an emotional mature leader is really important. So talk to us about what qualities make up an emotionally mature leader.
- [31:41]
Diego Perez
I think the immediate quality is to not be impulsively reactive. If you hear someone say something you don't like, you're not like, no, that's wrong. You take a moment and you actually can step outside of your perspective to be able to see more of why are they seeing things in that way? And also, if you're a good leader, you're hiring people who are smarter than you in specific areas. So if they're coming at you with a specific view that you don't agree with, then you should be able to lean on the fact that, oh, actually, maybe I'm not understanding something to be able to really check in, But I think that quality of not being immediately impulsive, reactive, and being able to step outside of your perspective to see the perspective of another, that's real emotional maturity in business.
- [32:28]
Hala Taha
I feel like entrepreneurs, a lot of us have a lot of success and it builds an ego, right? We feel like we're so smart, we've always made good decisions, we've made millions of dollars or whatever it is. It's really hard to put our ego aside. What are your recommendations to realize we have an ego. And when we feel like, oh, damn, like my ego is out of whack right now, to step out of it.
- [32:52]
Diego Perez
I think especially if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be really careful because the ego just makes the mind so cloudy. And just because you've had a few wins doesn't mean everything else that you're going to have is going to be a win. And I think one of the ways to combat that is by honestly hiring really smart young people. Because as you get older, being able to build a really successful business in your 20s or your 30s, are you still understanding that the world, like the way that you saw it back then, it's gonna change radically when you're 50 and you're trying to build another company. So I think tapping into people that you can trust feels really important. But I think the ego, it just makes things rougher and it can push you through hard moments, but it's not going to make the best product possible.
- [33:41]
Hala Taha
Another thing that entrepreneurs have to do is make good decisions, right? Every day we're faced with decisions, we've gotta make fast decisions. Can you talk to us about how trauma can actually impact the way that we make decisions? Past trauma?
- [33:55]
Diego Perez
Yeah. It's funny. I was talking to one of my mentors the other day, and he was going through all these different famous entrepreneurs, and he was like, everybody is trauma based. Everybody is attacking a problem because there's some lack of safety. You know, something happened when they were younger. And then as we were talking, I was listening, and I was like, oh, wow. And I realized to myself, I'm like, my greatest trauma was growing up in poverty. I'm glad that my mom and dad had a good relationship. And my relationship with them was often seeing them fight because they were arguing about how to pay the rent. And there was a moment when I was about 13, 14 years old where it hit me that I have my back up against the wall. No one's ever going to come save me because my family just doesn't have money. So I need to figure this out. And that's when I felt this impulse to just get more savvy, put more effort into the jobs that I was working in back then. And even when I think about writing, I write to help people, but I also write to help my family because I know that my mom and dad are counting on me. I'm fortunate enough that I have this ability to speak to a lot of people, to have a big audience, but that's also a responsibility to take care of my family.
- [35:12]
Hala Taha
That's beautiful. I love that. And I have a quote that I want to read.
- [35:16]
Diego Perez
Sure.
- [35:17]
Hala Taha
So you say when chaos is all around you, the wisest choice is to create peace within you. So, as you know, entrepreneurship is so uncertain, it's so stressful, it's so chaotic. If we're feeling like, man, this is a bad day. I have all these fires. What is some way to just bring us some instant peace? Or what are some practices we should do every day to bring some inner peace?
- [35:41]
Diego Perez
Yeah. There's two things that are really important. Even if you don't have a therapy practice, or even if you don't meditate, it's still really important to understand how short the walk is from gratitude to happiness or from gratitude to peace. So reminding yourself that even if you're in a dark moment, even if your company feels like it's going to fail, there's still a few things to be grateful for. There's still so much that's been accomplished. The other aspect, too, that's valuable outside of gratitude is even intellectually embracing the truth of impermanence. A lot of What I do when I meditate is I'm learning how to literally feel impermanence in the body. But even at the mental level, you can understand this hard moment. It's gonna pass, it's gonna change. We've already gotten over so many hard moments before. This is another one that we can face and overcome. But I think reminding yourself, because when we get caught in a storm, our logic goes out the window and we're like, oh my God, this storm's going to last forever. Like, it's going to be terrible, it's going to end everything. But no, you're probably going to be fine.
- [36:41]
Hala Taha
And impermanence means that it's just temporary. Like just realizes are temporary.
- [36:47]
Diego Perez
Temporary changing.
- [36:49]
Hala Taha
Yeah, that's really, really good advice. Just remembering that this is a storm that's going to end. Just like the weather.
- [36:56]
Diego Perez
Exactly.
- [36:57]
Hala Taha
So another thing that entrepreneurs specifically struggle with is people that are high achievers. They've got emotional attachment to success. They might even describe themselves if somebody's like, who are you? Like, oh, I'm the CEO of XYZ company. Oh, I know, yeah, this is my identity. And then when the company fails, they fail. If it's successful, then they're successful. So how can we detach ourselves? And why is that healthier?
- [37:22]
Diego Perez
It's hard because a lot of times when people go into. And you see this a lot in Silicon Valley, where it's like, we create companies, we go into it with a love to create, but then it becomes like a social status game. And it's like, who knows who. Who has accomplished this, who sold at a higher valuation. And those are important facts. But that doesn't define if you're a good person or not. That doesn't define if I want to talk to you or not. There are so many people who have negative assets and they're amazing human beings. So I think it's really important to understand that your value and your happiness as a human being is just not fully connected to what you've accomplished. And I think it's dangerous territory to walk on. It's almost like walking on a pond that's frozen over. And when you're walking around with that mentality, it's so easy for you to just fall into the water because it's an illusion, you know it's fake.
- [38:20]
Hala Taha
And it's really important to have things outside of your business, like relationships and really healthy, strong relationships. Which is a great segue to your new book, how to Love Better. So what was your goal with writing that book?
- [38:33]
Diego Perez
This one's been really special because I've sort of forced myself to hold off on writing it because I wanted to spend some more time cultivating my craft as a writer and just becoming clearer, developing better chapters, just really honing the message. But the inspiration from the book really came from when I went to those first few meditation retreats. I went because I needed to save myself. I felt like I needed to overcome sadness. I needed to just deal with myself and start a new life. But I was shocked to see how the moment that I went in to go and save myself, I was cultivating these qualities of patience, of better understanding, of compassion, of listening to myself. And then when I got home and I'm talking to my wife, these are the exact skills that were missing in my relationship. And because I spent time cultivating them, I was then able to offer them and almost started a new chapter of Harmony that wasn't there before. And to me it was shocking because I went into meditating to save myself. And then I did help myself, but I also almost like reignited my relationship with her.
- [39:40]
Hala Taha
What I'm hearing is, step one, you've got to heal yourself. And once you heal yourself, you can show up better as a partner and potentially heal your relationship. So let's dig on those qualities that you were just talking about. You actually list in your book three overarching qualities. Kindness, growth, and compassion. Can you talk to us about those qualities and how they help us in relationships?
- [40:02]
Diego Perez
Those are three really big, important green flags, because kindness. It's really valuable to understand that whoever you're in proximity to, whoever you're closest to that could be your roommate, your partner, family members, they're going to see the best of you, and they're also going to see the worst of you. And part of that is because we feel vulnerable with them, we can actually open up with them. And that's really good. But sometimes when the relationship is long lasting, there come points where you're not bringing that same gentleness, you're not bringing that same kindness as you did when the relationship first started. So it's important to know that when someone approaches you, they are honest with you and they can tell you that they're feeling down, but they're not taking it out on you. The other element of that is the compassion. And similar to what we were talking about for entrepreneurs, it's a very specific type of compassion where you can step outside of your perspective and see the perspective of another. Because in all, whenever you want to solve an argument, it's that specific compassion that Helps you see each other because you can actually take a moment to see your partner's perspective, and then they can see yours, and then you understand where you each are coming from. And the last element is growth. If you're in a relationship, it's going to show you the best of you, and it's also going to show where you need to put energy into. And I think that's one thing that I saw right off the bat when I was first with my wife was like, I needed to improve my ability to listen. And over time, putting energy into that and then all these other qualities that I have had to develop to be able to bring more harmony into the relationship. I think growth is just something that we don't really have a choice but to embrace if we want to have a happy relationship.
- [41:51]
Hala Taha
And I know that when it comes to getting along with others, some of the biggest obstacles to that is attachment and control. So can you talk to us about what attachment does to us and how that actually leads us to want to control things that we can't control and how that can spiral into something that we don't want?
- [42:09]
Diego Perez
You know, it's really hard, too, because it sometimes feel like attachment is love, but it's not. Attachment is literally the craving for things to exist in a very particular way. Having the people that you love act in these ways, have these beliefs, they agree with you on these critical things. But life is not always going to be like that. And when you have these big attachments, all these cravings for things to exist in particular ways, they will manifest as control in daily life. And that's when you get things like parents demanding children. This is what you need to study in school. And you don't. You don't really have another option. Or partners trying to control another partner. And that's when you get selfishness. That's when you get manipulation and these types of behaviors that squeeze the life out of a relationship.
- [42:55]
Hala Taha
Talk to us about how you think of alignment, because let's say you're a couple and one wants to have kids and one doesn't. Is that control or trying to control or attach? I feel like you need to have similar values. Right? So talk to us about that.
- [43:11]
Diego Perez
Yeah, that alignment's really important. And honestly, that alignment should hopefully come earlier on. And I think I've seen this struggle happen in relationships of friends that I've seen where they literally break up because they just waited too long to have the conversation about whether they wanted to have kids or not. And then they found out that they're actually on very different pages. I think the alignment has to come from honesty and it has to come from the beginning where it's like you start dating and then once you feel the reality of the magnetic connection, you let them know, hey, I'm interested in setting up something serious with you having a serious partnership. And then as you go along, you keep revealing more and more of your values and seeing where they match and where they differ. And if they differ, is it tolerable? Is that okay with you? Because I think that's one of the nice things, is that my wife and I, we don't agree on everything. And that's part of the good part of our relationship, is that we have different views, but on the key, important things, there is a ton of alignment. And that helps us have a value system. Because just the same way as an individual, right, you have these three different guides that you have inside of you where you have your values, you have your intuition, and you have your nervous system. And they really help clarify what direction to take when you're moving forward. But this, you have the same thing in a relationship where, you know, your nervous system should be very relaxed around your partner. Your intuition should feel like it wants to be next to your partner, and your values have that alignment.
- [44:40]
Hala Taha
If you feel like you are in a relationship and you feel like you are trying to control things because there maybe is no alignment with the things that you want, and so you're trying to like, control the way things are going, what do you recommend people do? How can they let go of wanting to have so much control?
- [44:59]
Diego Perez
I think instead of trying to have control and instead of just coming from a place of expectations and attachments, you want to double down on commitments. And commitments are very different. It's you clearly lining out how you would like your happiness to be supported, what your needs are and what your wants are, and then your partner is then taking a look at what you've laid out and then they're telling you, actually, this sounds pretty good to me. I voluntarily commit to trying to do X, Y and Z for you. I'm not going to be perfect at it. I'm going to make mistakes. But this is something that I can to do my part in this relationship and vice versa. So being honest and communicating how you would like to be supported and also checking in with that, you know, not just expecting that what we talked about two years ago is going to be the same now, that's also going to change. But I think you want to double down on commitments because Then there's no coercion. There's no manipulation. There's no control. You're just telling your truth. They share your truth. And you're like, oh, I can do this for you. This sounds really good to me.
- [46:06]
Hala Taha
So you're basically saying, tell people how to love you, right?
- [46:09]
Diego Perez
Yeah.
- [46:10]
Hala Taha
So give us some examples of what you could say to your partner.
- [46:13]
Diego Perez
One clear thing is, my partner made it really clear that she loves when I'm in charge of the dishwasher. She loves when I'm helping with the compost. There's something about me taking care of the compost, which feels like the biggest thing that I could do for her. I would have been oblivious to that if she had not told me. And then when she tells me, like, this is important for me, I'm like, great. I can do that for you. If that makes you happy, I don't want to do it. But if that makes you happy, I'm down, you know, because that feels sweeter to me. So being able to communicate with that, I would have never been able to read her mind, but she just made it clear. And it can be simple as something like that or something like. One of my favorite stories is from my wife's mom and dad, where when they were having an argument pretty soon after they got married. This was back when they were younger. They're in their 70s now. My wife's mom was saying how they were arguing about something, but his tone became really loud, and to her, it felt like he was screaming. So she told him. She was like, I want to have so many arguments with you. I want to be married to you for decades. And I know that marriage comes with arguments, but please, just talk to me. Don't raise your voice, because then I feel threatened. I feel scared. And he was like, great. But, you know, in that moment, she said, this is how I want to be supported. Can you do this for me? And he's like, of course. For him, it didn't even feel like screaming. He just was a little louder. But that's how he grew up in his house. So you can't make those things clear without communicating about them.
- [47:49]
Hala Taha
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That's Factor Podcast@factormeals.com FactorPodcast to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. If you want all the links quick and easy, just head to our show notes or youngandprofiting.com deals I love this topic of arguing because like you said, every relationship is going to have arguments. So my first question is reacting emotionally. How can we avoid blowing up? Especially to your point, Some people just grow up in households where you're fighting with your brothers, you're fighting with your sisters, your parents have blow up. It's just like generational kind of. So talk to us.
- [53:05]
Diego Perez
Totally. I think there's a very practical thing that you can do. And you can do this whether you're in a relationship with someone or you just have roommates. My wife and I, we started noticing when we were meditating that our minds just did not want to take any accountability. I think for the first part of our relationship, whenever one of us would feel tension, we would just try to put the blame on the other person. Even if it was illogical, even if it made no sense, it was like, how do I make this tension in my mind your fault? And this happened over and over and over. And then we realized we were like, wait, actually, me feeling down in this moment has nothing to do with you. Sometimes it does. Sometimes we say something and we need to apologize. But we were noticing, like, 70% of the time, I'm like, just looking for reasons to fight. And what we found to counteract that was, when we wake up, let's just tell each other how we feel in a very passive way. Just tell each other, I feel good right now, or I feel heavy, or I didn't get a lot of rest, I woke up really tired, or I feel a little angry. And just knowing these bits of information because you're naming it, the person who's feeling it is naming it. And your partner's hearing it for you, that makes you aware of where your mind is at. And then your mind doesn't jump into just creating more narratives to make it worse. And then your partner also knows, oh, let me give them their space. Let me treat them a little more gently. Is there anything I can do to make your day easier? But that gives the both of you the information you need to work with the situation. And we do that one time in the morning and then one time in the early afternoon. And honestly, that's been so helpful because then I know if I hear stress in her voice, it's not really about me because she already told me that she was feeling stressed and vice versa. Yeah.
- [54:55]
Hala Taha
So you do that whether or not you're arguing. You just daily check in. That's so interesting.
- [54:59]
Diego Perez
Daily. And it's not formal. It's not like, oh, let's sit down and check in. It's not like that. It's like, it's easy. It's just. You just say it without someone even asking you. And whenever she tells me when there's a big shift in her mood, I'm like, amazing. Thank you for giving me the information I need to be successful.
- [55:16]
Hala Taha
What about if your partner is always bringing up stuff from the past?
- [55:21]
Diego Perez
You gotta learn how to forgive. I think especially when you see someone, because this happens, right? You have a very difficult moment, you resolve it. The person genuinely apologizes and they start showing changed behavior where they change the thing that was the problem before. But then your mind will keep. This is the problem with heavy emotions is that when you're feeling anger, the mind wants to make it bigger. It wants to invite other people into the anger by either saying something mean to them or by telling them the reason that why you're angry so that they can be angry with you. But then other times, if there's no one around us, the mind will just go back and back and back in time to pull something out and it'll grab the last biggest argument. Even though it's resolved, it just comes back. And I think you have to repeatedly learn how to let go. Especially if the other person is like, I haven't done that in years. I'm not trying to live my life like that anymore. But it's quite challenging.
- [56:23]
Hala Taha
So I know you've been with your wife sounds like for a long time. How many years have you been together?
- [56:27]
Diego Perez
We've been together for. It's hard because it changes every year, but we've been together for. We'll be 10 years married this summer, and I think that means we've been together for 17 years.
- [56:39]
Hala Taha
Wow. So you really weren't involved in this online dating world?
- [56:44]
Diego Perez
Nana missed it.
- [56:45]
Hala Taha
You missed it? I was in a really long relationship and then we broke up. And getting on the apps was so strange to me, and I didn't even know how to swipe right or swipe left. Like, I kept doing it wrong. So talk to me about your perspective of how the world is dating today. I don't know if you have single friends or what you've witnessed.
- [57:05]
Diego Perez
It's challenging out there because I feel like a lot of people are playing coy. There's a few things happening that I see often where one is sometimes people are spoiled for choice. And this happens in a lot of major cities where it's just like you're dating like eight people, but you're not really giving any of them a really serious focus. And that makes it really challenging to see. You can, like, have a very superficial interaction with somebody and never realize how amazing they actually are. I think the other thing too that happens is that people look for incremental improvements in their partners. So you'll be dating someone for two, three months, and then you end up dropping them because you're looking for someone who's 2% more attractive or 2% more peaceful. Just because you don't necessarily want to deal with an argument that comes up, you just kind of toss the relationship away. And I hear this all the time from friends, but it's challenging because our society, the way all the apps are with, you know, either dating apps or just all apps in general, right. They're all set up to just make your life easier. Like, we live in a doordash, uber society, and we expect that from our personal growth and from our relationships for it to just be fixed and easy, it's just not gonna be like that. So we need to be really careful about wanting things to be slightly better. And then we end up dumping something great for the chance of something better. That is just like an illusion in our minds.
- [58:31]
Hala Taha
I feel like a lot of single people are in this. Like you said, there's just too much choice. So if we're dating and we're going on all these dates, how do you think we should choose the person when there's so many options and so many good options, too? What do you think are the criteria that we should be looking at?
- [58:49]
Diego Perez
I think one of the main things is it's not so much about the other person, but it's about how you feel when you're with them. I feel like it's really important to know because I think when I look back to my wife and I, when we got together, if we both had checklists of what we wanted in a partner, neither of us would have checked anything off. We were just the opposite of what, you know, we were both looking for. But what we did both feel was this deep, magnetic pull towards each other where it was easy to text each other. We wanted to be in contact. We wanted to find times to hang out, and life wasn't really getting in the way. But I think having that mutual connectiveness with a person is very important. I think also clarity is really important. Just being honest. Like, if you're really feeling someone, let them know because they might have no idea. You might have gone on a few dates and not know that you're actually really hoping to build something with them. But it's. I think it's really tough out there, and you have to really trust your intuition and your nervous system and then see more than just what's on the face and the body. Do they have emotional qualities? Like, do they have an emotional skill set? Like, how do they treat other people besides you when you're out together? Like, how is their kindness there? Are they reactive? How do they Deal with a difficult moment. I think that's always a very telling time. When you see someone handle a challenge that's unexpected, how do they do it? Are they calm through it or are they super chaotic?
- [60:20]
Hala Taha
I also feel like we need to make sure that the person is ready for love. Right? And I think you talk about that in your book. How can we tell if somebody's actually ready to be in a loving relationship?
- [60:30]
Diego Perez
I think a lot of that is just simply being growth oriented. I think that's one thing that's really nice about the time period that we live in. The wellness world has developed so much, but we have seen the value of putting energy into our personal growth. But then we need to take a look at finding a partner who also values growing, but doesn't necessarily have to grow in the same way. And I think once you can understand, even though myself and this other person don't necessarily use the same tools, like maybe they meditate and maybe you use therapy, but if there's still that inclination to grow, then you're going to be able to overcome tough moments together.
- [61:11]
Hala Taha
Since you brought up growth, there's this concept you talk about the paradox of growth in your book. Can you tell us about that?
- [61:17]
Diego Perez
It's challenging that you need to simultaneously accept your imperfections and you need to accept yourself for who you are and then also understand that, you know, I have a lot of growing to do. I can be an imperfect person, but I can simultaneously say, okay, I'm not going to expect perfection for myself, but it would be valuable for me to slow down instead of making decisions really fast for me to not jump to conclusions and just understanding where your pain points are. Because often our pain points are self created. We're causing our own tension. But where are you causing yourself tension and how can you relieve that?
- [61:55]
Hala Taha
What's your advice to anybody out there right now that's single, that's dating, they're looking for their right partner. What's your best advice to them? To find the love of their life no matter what?
- [62:06]
Diego Perez
If you find someone, you really are going to find them through proximity. So you do have to put yourself out there, whether that's online or whether that's in person. You're not going to build a connection without proximity. So put yourself out there and then just be the realest version of yourself. Don't worry about trying to build a facade or trying to create a version of yourself that's more likable, that's going to create superficial interactions. Instead, just be you go out there when you do find someone that you're connecting with, focus on them, tell them that you're interested and then see if there's enough there to build a relationship.
- [62:44]
Hala Taha
Diego, I love this conversation. I loved learning about all of your work and your new book. I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests. And this can be anything that you want to talk about. Doesn't have to be about the topic today. Whatever just comes from your heart. So what is one actionable thing our young and profits can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?
- [63:04]
Diego Perez
Oh, that's a really good one. I think if you're an entrepreneur or you're working on building businesses, it's really important to know that you need really good partners. And when you're starting a business with someone these days, I think it's less about working for an exact amount of time. It's less about, okay, I'm going to put in 40 hours or this is what I can, you know how many hours I can put in for this project? It's not so much like that anymore. It's more what can you deliver to the project. So I do my young Pueblo work but I also have a venture capital company that I'm a partner in and I co found it but I don't so much say like oh, I can work 10 hours a week or 20 hours a week or 30. It changes sometimes. When we're fundraising there's tons of work. When we're just assessing companies and making investments, it's slightly less work and it's more so like what can I deliver to the group? And if that feels valuable to them, then they accept your partnership without saying, oh, I'm going to work X amount of time. You just make sure that you over deliver and everyone's going to be happy. So like that because I've noticed something about, you know, a lot of my friends and mentors in Silicon Valley where they're building like three companies at a time and they're doing a fantastic job but it's not like they're working 120 hour weeks. They're just like this is what they deliver to each situation.
- [64:28]
Hala Taha
That's really smart. So it's a kind of like leaning in what comes natural to you, what you know you could do effectively and contribute and has nothing to do with trading time for money.
- [64:37]
Diego Perez
That's not, yeah, no, you never want to trade time for money. That's the worst. You want to deliver and make sure you get your equity and then build.
- [64:45]
Hala Taha
It as big as you can love that advice. And what would you say your secret to profiting in life is? And this can go beyond financially profiting.
- [64:54]
Diego Perez
No matter what, I make my growth come first. And that really is meditating. So for last year, I started the year off from January to February meditating for 45 days. It was a totally silent meditation course. And even though my agents were upset and people who I'm working with, they wanted more of my time, it was actually much more beneficial for me to take that time, meditate. And then when I came out, everything was better. I was able to be productive at a whole nother level. And similarly, after this book launches, I'm going to go away to meditate for 20 days in April to May. And I'm thrilled for that. And I think when I look at a lot of people who are really, really highly productive, they take time to cultivate themselves. And it's really important if you're going to keep producing.
- [65:42]
Hala Taha
You're inspiring me to go on a silent retreat. My business partner does them all the time and I've been inspired by him. But I feel like it could be such a great way to kind of just dive in, take like a 10 day retreat. Is that what you recommend for people who've never done it before? Like maybe just go, go do a retreat?
- [65:58]
Diego Perez
I think, I think if you're listening and you're interested, definitely go check it out. And I think if it sounds like too much or too long for you, there's other styles. You know, there's a lot of different meditation styles out there. So you kind of just have to find the thing that connects with your intuition and it's challenging but not overwhelming. And I'd say for you, you're a very creative person. Imagine when your mind is even lighter. Because I was not introduced to my creativity until I started meditating and I see that all the time. I know people who meditate who are like McKinsey consultants or like people who are artists and they paint. And no matter what field you're in, you just start producing at a whole nother level. I had one friend who, she's a producer and creates TV shows. And after she finished her retreat, she was crushing it.
- [66:43]
Hala Taha
Really?
- [66:44]
Diego Perez
Yeah.
- [66:45]
Hala Taha
I'm excited. I feel like I would love to like, unlock a whole new layer of productivity and creativity. Diego, this has been such an awesome conversation. I feel like I personally learned so much. I feel like everybody who tuned in got so much value. Where can everybody follow you? Learn more about what you do. Get your books and all that you.
- [67:02]
Diego Perez
Can follow me on Instagram at Young Pueblo Y U N G underscore P U E B L o and my new book, how to Love Better. It's in bookstores. You can also find it online on Amazon and I'm also on Stub Stack. You can follow my newsletter if you want to read my longer articles. And yeah, thank you so much. This has been so much fun.
- [67:21]
Hala Taha
Amazing. I'll put all those links in the show notes thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.
- [67:26]
Diego Perez
Awesome.
- [67:31]
Hala Taha
Wow. What an incredibly moving conversation with Diego. His wisdom on healing, compassion and love is something that we can all take with us as we move forward in our personal lives and our entrepreneurial journeys. I think one of the biggest takeaways from today is that healing isn't just about looking back. It's about creating space for a more peaceful present and a more authentic future. Like Diego said, the person who hurt you in the past is not going to heal you. Only you can do that. But once you learn to accept and love yourself better, it also opens the door for being more compassionate and loving towards others. One of the keys to this is avoiding attachment. Attachment is often rooted in control, clinging to specific outcomes, or seeking validation from external sources which can lead to suffering. But as Diego suggests, if you focus on commitments instead of attachments, then you can develop more meaningful relationships that avoid manipulative or controlling behaviors. I know that learning to relinquish control and setting aside ego can be especially challenging for us entrepreneurs. That's why it's so important to hire well and surround yourself with good people who aren't afraid to push back on you. It's also critical to find quiet moments of peace and reflection in your daily routine. Meditation may or may not be for you. I know for myself it's really hard for me to pick up a meditation practice, but at least take some time every day to find that inner calm within the storm that's blowing around you. I love to take bubble baths and it helps me think. Be quiet and have some peace. Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting. If this conversation resonated with you today, be sure to share it with somebody who could use a little extra light in their day. And if you did enjoy this show, make sure you subscribe. And if you learned something new, drop us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast. In fact, I read our podcast reviews every day and we got a recent one that I really, really loved and I want to Read it to you guys. So she says, by far my favorite podcast. As a female entrepreneur, it seems increasingly more difficult to surround myself with mentors. Because of this, Hala has become my mentor without even knowing it. I'm obsessed with listening to this show and taking tidbits of every podcast that can apply towards my needs. From Business Insider tips of what's worked and what hasn't worked, mindset shifts and beneficial tools in business, it's been an all over game changer for me. I listen while getting ready, in the morning, while driving to work, driving home from work and before bed. Hala and her guests are that voice in my head that continues to propel me forward. Thanks Hala. Love everything that you're doing and appreciate it so much. Wow, that really made my day. And she goes by Le Car aesthetics, so L E H C A R Aesthetics. I guess that's the name of her company. So good luck to you. If you guys want to go search her company, go do it. And I love to hear that a female entrepreneur is tuning into my show. If you guys are longtime listeners, you know that historically my show is mostly male listeners, sometimes as much as 80% male. But more and more female entrepreneurs are listening to the show and that makes me so happy. So thanks for tuning in, guys. I hope other people follow suit and write a review like she did. I love to hear from you guys When I do this podcast. I see thousands and thousands of downloads every day. So there's thousands and thousands of you that listen to this podcast every day, but only one or two reviews every couple of days. So I love to hear from you guys. Take that time to write a review, let me know your feedback, good and bad. It helps me with the show and it keeps me going. Honestly, you know, I've been doing this podcast for years now and still these reviews really mean so much to me. I do this show for you guys, so write that review. If you haven't yet, let us know that you're tuning into the show. Whether it's Apple, Spotify, Castbox, Player, fm, wherever you're listening. I read these reviews every day and I want to hear from you. And if you guys like to watch your podcast as videos, I've been doing a lot more in person content and I'm gonna continue doing that. I'm actually out in Austin now and we're going to be building an in person studio studio here and I'm so excited about that. We've got more videos on YouTube than ever. You can find all of our videos on young and profiting on YouTube. Just search it, you'll find it. You can also find me on Instagram at Yapwithhala or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Hala Taha. Of course I gotta shout out my YAP team. I've got the best production team. It is a whole village that produces this show. You guys have no idea how many people work on this show. Like it is a dozen of us just working on this podcast. So shout out to you guys for making this happen. Thank you for dealing with my hectic schedule. And I know even with this episode I got some team members working on the weekend because I missed my recording schedule. Sorry guys. I appreciate your hard work. This is your host, Hala Taha, AKA the Podcast Princess, signing off.