← Your Anxiety Toolkit - Practical Skills for Anxiety, Panic & Depression
Your Anxiety Toolkit - Practical Skills for Anxiety, Panic & Depression
450 Why Your Brain Focuses on the Worst-Case Scenario (and What to Do About It)
00:42:29
Learn why your brain fixates on the worst-case—and the simple, science-backed practices that help you rebalance attention, reduce compulsions, and live from your values instead of fear.
Loading summary
Transcript77 lines
- [00:02]
A
Do you ever wonder why your brain always fixates on the worst case scenario? Or are you frustrated with the constant, catastrophic, intrusive thoughts about how bad everything is? That is the negativity bias at work. And today we're exploring why your brain focuses on the worst case scenario and most importantly, what we can do about it. Today I'm Speaking with Emma McAdams. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she's the creator of the most popular YouTube channel, Therapy. In a nutshell, we're going to explore something that impacts us all. Negativity bias. And together, we're going to do a deep dive into why the mind clings to the negative and how we can work with our brains to create more balance and. And peace. Welcome back to your anxiety toolkit. I'm Kimberly Quindlen. This podcast is your space to feel understood, supported, and equipped to navigate your anxiety and related struggles. Let's dive in. Welcome, Emma.
- [01:17]
B
Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's so fun to be with you.
- [01:20]
A
Okay, Emma, let's get straight to to it because I know you've done some work on this before. Why do our brains focus on the worst case scenario?
- [01:31]
B
Ooh. I think it's really important to recognize that our brains are not designed. Whether you believe that's by God or by evolution, Our brains are not designed to make us happy. They're designed to keep us alive. So if you think about our ancestors, if they were, let's just imagine t 10,000 years ago, our ancestors were out hunting and gathering. They're looking for food, and they're in a field with thousands of ripe little berries. And that's a resource. That's a positive thing. That's something that, like, brings a sense of satisfaction and tastes good, right? There's a positive thing, and there's one saber toothed tiger in that field. What should their brain focus on? Right? So this is about, like, attention and focus as a survival skill. It's really essential if you want to live. You've got to pay attention to the one thing that's dangerous instead of the 1000 little delicious berries that are positive. And that's one way to stay alive, right? You pay attention to that saber tooth tiger. You avoid it, or you, you know, gather your friends around you and you pick up your spears and you fight it off. So that's like an attention bias that's built into our brain. We are going to be much more likely to pay attention to the one thing that may be threatening or dangerous than we are to pay attention to the other things that are valuable, helpful, resourceful, benefic. Our lives.
- [02:52]
A
Okay, so let's sort of talk more about this. Can you explain what this negative bias is exactly like? Again, you've already done a beautiful job of explaining it. But why does our brain go overboard? Okay, it makes sense. I'm at the. I'm at a part. Let's say I'm at an intersection. And I'm going to be looking for danger. I'm going to be, of course, looking for it. But for some folks, why is that negative creative bias so strong?
- [03:25]
B
Yeah, I think there's a couple things that can make it really strong. And one of those is our experiences, and another one of those, and we'll go into that, and then another one is our innate sensitivity. And then, you know, a third one is kind of a type of planning and like, perfectionism, like wanting to ensure that everything goes perfect. So if we go to the first one, which is like, our experiences, expecting the worst is a way to protect us from feeling hurt, right? So let's say we felt hurt in the past. Like, let's say we had a friend who, like, abandoned us or threw us under the bus, you know, gossiped about us, treated us badly, and that hurt, like, that crushed. So then the next time we start making a new friend or we start meeting other people, there's this little thought that says, hey, I might get hurt. Something might happen here. And so our brain is going to be like, I gotta protect my person. I gotta protect my person from getting hurt. So we're gonna be scanning, scanning, scanning for something, any sign that something bad might happen. Now, if we look at this from an evolutionary perspective, this is great because what we're doing is we're learning, right? We're learning from our experiences and we're adapting to those. So this can be really functional. I'm trying to think of a good example of how this is. This is really functional. But it's like, oh, let's say, like, oh, this kind of X kind of berry is going to make me throw up. If I learn from that, then the next time I don't eat that berry and I don't throw up. Awesome, right? Or like, in. In my village, there's 100 people and Bob is gonna, like, I don't know, hit me with a rock, right? Like, I'm gonna avoid Bob. I'm gonna scan for Bob. When Bob's around, I'm gonna avoid him. Or if, like, when we're growing up, when my parents, like, let's say Sunday nights my parents get really anxious about the work week and then they chew me out and they make me do more chores. Then I'm going to start to avoid my parents on Sundays or I'm going to scan for like when they're drunk or when they're angry or when they're stressed at work. And I'm going to be scanning for this. And this is a way to protect myself from getting hurt. So I mean, you can call it trauma or you can call it just really good. Like your brain's learning. That's one way to think about trauma is our brain's trying to adapt to threats and manage those threats by getting better and better at telling when those threats are coming. But the brain is going to over exaggerate here. The brain is going to err on the side of thinking that these bad things are happening more often than they are because it's better to like, oh, I don't know if there's a saber tooth tiger in that field, but I might as well avoid it just in case. Right.
- [06:08]
A
I think this is really good for people and folks with panic. Right. So they might have been at a grocery store, had the onset of a panic attack, and now they might perceive all supermarkets as being dangerous. And like every time you go back in now, now we have to like constantly be aware of the trigger of what could happen at a supermarket. Would you agree with that kind of example?
- [06:31]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. And our brain is really going to key into those things. And that's. I think sometimes people think like, oh, our anxiety's out to get us, our anxiety's out to get us. And it's like, no. Like I think our evolutionary defenses are we are motivated by emotions. Like emotions are motivational. Right. So our brain sometimes tries to protect us by pumping out just a ton of heightened emotional chemicals in our body. Right. Adrenaline, cortisol, to motivate us to escape things. But it's just trying to protect us. It's trying to scan and prevent and protect and keep us safe from anything bad happening. But we can't let our brain make all our decisions for us. That's really what it comes down to. Like, we can't let our evolutionary brain like run everything.
- [07:16]
A
Yeah. You talked about perfectionism. How, how does that play a role in this negative bias?
- [07:23]
B
Yeah, I think some of us have more of an innate sensitivity to like, hurt. And so we're more likely to want to avoid like any feelings. One of the ways we control and avoid feelings is trying to be perfect, trying to make sure nothing bad ever happens. You might see this, like, with germaphobia, where people are like, I've just got to make sure I never get sick instead of saying, I'm going to live my life, allow myself, you know, I'm going to get sick a couple days a year. No, that's impossible. That could never happen. Or it's like, oh, I'm going to allow myself to hang out with my friends and say what feels natural to me. And every once in a while, I might say something stupid or hurtful. And perfectionism or social anxiety, I must ensure. I must ensure that I never say anything hurtful, that I never make any mistakes around such and such person. And this is like really taking this to the extreme where we. We end up cutting out so much out of our lives. But I think what ends up happening is we end up scanning and scanning for threats to the degree that our brain is now. Our fears are now running our life.
- [08:31]
A
Let me jump in there. What's the difference with negativity bias with folks who have anxiety, maybe versus folks with depression? So, like, for me, if I were to, like, think about what I understand as my own negativity bias, it might be like, bad things might happen. And, you know, they might think that, whatever. But when depression is. It's like, you are bad. It is bad. Bad things will happen. There's no hope, there's no point. What are your thoughts in terms of how it shows up and the role of negativity bias for folks with depression?
- [09:09]
B
Yeah, I would say with depression, I think one of the most common things I see is people are going to really filter out the positive and good around themselves, and they're gonna really highlight the negative. So you'll hear a lot of, oh, this always happens to me. I was talking to a friend yesterday. She's like, oh, I'm just driving home from a therapy appointment. And then we were talking about this friend, and she's like, oh. And I said this dumb thing and it must have hurt her feelings. And I just always make the dumbest comments. I just keep ruining things. And then she caught herself and she's like, you know what? No, she's probably okay. I'm probably okay. And I could just see it in action where she was, like, catching herself in this frame of, like, everything bad happens to me. You know, I heard an interesting. Someone said something to me the other day that I thought was interesting. They said, I have this theory that the even years are good years. Like, good things happen in the even years. And the odd years are bad years. Like bad things happen in the odd years. And I thought that has got to be 100% like confirmation bias right there, right? So, like, I don't doubt something bad happened in an odd year. Like maybe their family member died, maybe they got cancer. Like one odd year or two odd years or three odd years in a row, something bad happened. But what that means is that every even year, every time something good happens, they're like, see, look, it's an even year. See, look, it's an even year. This is so cool. And if something bad happens in an even year, they're going to kind of downplay it. They're going to focus less and less on it. And then in an odd year, every time something bad happens, they're going to be like, see, look, everything bad happens in the odd years. Look at this awful thing. It must be because it's 2025. And if something good happens in 2025, that confirmation bias, that negativity bias is going to downplay it. So I think we have to admit, like, we have to be honest that the way we perceive reality is biased. Like, we have to acknowledge our brain is going to bias this. So someone with depression, they're going to notice when they mess up and they're going to minimize it when they do something good. When someone compliments them, they're gonna say, oh, she's just being nice. And when someone criticizes them, they're gonna be like, I know, I'm such a screw up, right? Yeah. And someone with anxiety, they're gonna be like, constantly, just like, something bad's probably gonna happen, right? Something like, I've gotta keep my eyes out. I've gotta worry about it to prevent it from happening. We don't realize we're playing that game, but we're like, I gotta worry. I've got a plan, I've got a structure, I've got a control to just. Or else something bad is going to happen, you know?
- [11:44]
A
So what can we do? You've talked about negativity bias, you've talked about confirmation bias. And we're looking at through the lens of how it shows up for anxious folks and how it shows up for depressed folks or both. What would be some really, like, solid strategies in identifying this and maybe changing behavior?
- [12:08]
B
I think the very first step, and this is a hard one to do on your own. This is easiest to do with a friend or therapist, like a very wise friend or a wise therapist, is to really get an idea of what your stories are like. We have these stories we tell ourselves, and I think there's a lot of common ones out there. If you were to ask someone, is the world getting better or worse right now, what do you think the average person would say?
- [12:30]
A
What a difficult question. They would see worse.
- [12:33]
B
Yeah, most people would say, it's definitely getting worse. Like, look at what's going on. Look at the political divisions. Look at the war. If we look at this question statistically. Statistically and with numbers. And you could read the book Enlightenment now to get like, a thorough. Like a thorough analysis of this. But there actually is less war and conflict than most likely ever, at least in the recorded history of the world. There's less war and conflict. There's less murders and killing. Crime is actually less in the developed world, children are living longer. There's less infant mortality. There's less polio. We have freaking antibiotics. Like. Like, kids these days, are they worse or are they better than ever? And it's like most people say, oh, kids these days. But people have been saying kids these days since ancient Babylon. They have a cuneiform tablet with this guy saying, the youth these days are so lazy. Right. Like Socrates and people around the time of Plato were saying, the kids these days. So we have this. This bias. Like, the world is getting worse, and the reality is, holy cow. Like, we have access to grocery delivery, but we forget about it, right? We have access. Like, their smallpox is basically eliminated. I mean, we'll see how that keeps going. But like. Like, there is so much good going on. And we have these stories that are common, stories that have been going around for thousands of years that tell us the world is worse than ever. People are meaner than ever. The world is more dangerous than ever. You can't let your kids play outside. Like, all of this is neg. This is our natural negativity bias. So we have to look for these stories. Someone with anxiety might be. I be thinking I have to worry and control and analyze and overthink everything to be safe. Someone with depression is going to have stories like, oh, bad things always happen to me. People always mistreat me. I'm such a failure. So that's like, the first step is like, can you just see these as stories instead of reality?
- [14:33]
A
Let me jump in really quick because, number one, thank you for saying all that. I actually feel like, this lighter shoulder feeling right now. Like, as you're saying that, I'm noticing this, like, lift. Because no one says that. No one is saying things are getting better. I mean, I'm sure, of course, that's a negative bias, too, because I'm sure there are people who are saying it, but it's so nice to hear. And I'm thinking of my listeners, and they're probably thinking, or they're probably having maybe a strong reaction to you saying that. Right. They might be like, no, like, rights are being taken away or, you know, war and everything like this. So is that reaction that people might be having a part of their negative bias about their negative bias? I know that's getting very meta, but we're going to have a strong reaction to this. The idea. I remember talking to clients before and talking about, like, I wonder what a different story would be. And they get very stuck. Like, don't take my negative story away from me. Like, it's mine and I believe it. So what would you say to people who are having a reaction right now?
- [15:44]
B
Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad you brought this up because I also am deeply concerned about so many things from global warming to, like, the political situation. Without going into any details, we'll just leave it at that. I feel deeply concerned. And there's a big difference between saying, like, huh, I am concerned about climate change, so therefore, what actions can I take that are going to be really helpful? And saying, oh, my gosh, everything's getting so terrible. The world is so much worse than it's ever been. People are so much worse than it's ever been. So I would say the difference is generalizing. The difference is generalizing. And it's not that there aren't problems in the world. And I would never want to deny that there's pain and suffering and starvation happening right now. Like, I could cry right now if we talk about this. But it's. The story is things are getting worse and they're always getting worse and everything's terrible. And that story is false.
- [16:53]
A
Yeah.
- [16:53]
B
I think we're more accurate and more intentional and more actionable. Like, we are better able to take intentional action that line up with our values when we let go of these overgeneralized stories that are built on bias. And when I talk about bias, I think we also have to acknowledge that the media that we consume takes advantage of our negativity bias. So you could take two stories. One story is, oh, my gosh, it's been the warmest summer ever in Utah in 130 years of measuring summers in Utah with the least amount of moisture in 130 years. And this is terrible. Right? Great. Good. There's a news story. Story makes me click. Right. Or you could say, hey, changing your lawnmower from a gas mower to an electric mower saves, like, 120 pounds of carbon every week. Which story is going to be clicked on more? The story that's like, this is a terrible drought, right? Like, and in Utah. Let me just give one more example of this. I think we have to be intentional. What I'm trying to say is we have to be intentional about how we consume information, because these scary stories will take advantage of our negativity bias in a way that the positive stories will not.
- [18:11]
A
Yes.
- [18:12]
B
So in Utah two years ago, we had a bad drought or a very dry year, and that was all over the news. Driest year, driest year running out of water. Da da da, da, da da. That winter, we had the wettest winter we'd had in, like, forever. We got, like, 12ft of snow in Salt Lake. And. And instead of the stories saying, oh, my gosh, all the reservoirs filled up this winter, it's so great. The stories were, holy cow, look at this picture of this one house. This roof collapsed. Out of 2 million inhabitants in Utah, like, three roofs collapsed. What are we going to focus on? We're going to focus on the scary or the dramatic news. That's because it sells. It literally sells. And it sells because our brains are wired to look for negativity. Our brains are wired to scan for threats. They're not wired to be negative. They're wired to scan for threat and to help us question that. So, okay, I could get all worked up on this. We could move on. But I think when we feel like everything is terrible, we have to ask ourselves, is it? Like, is it actually? And I think that takes us to. That takes us to like, some really practical things that we can do each day.
- [19:18]
A
I was thinking about this from a different angle. Actually is maybe like 10 years ago, my husband and I, we were going through, like, a rough patch, which every marriage does. We've been married 20 something years. And I remember reading that appreciation is really one of the most important pieces of a relationship. And you know when you're really mad at somebody and you're having, like, a whole fight with them in your head, and you're like. You're like, you're playing it out. And I read this and I was like, appreciation. Like, he doesn't deserve my appreciation. Until I really stopped, and I was like, wait, Kim Bibi. And I made a conscious effort to practice appreciating him for even, like, the littlest things. And I have the best husband. It's not like, you know, I didn't have to pretend too hard, but what I noticed was I was focusing on everything he did wrong. I was focusing on how he didn't soothe me the right way, or I was focusing on how he didn't greet that neighbor the way that I would have greeted the neighbor until I was like, oh, I. This is so interesting. And it was a practice, right, of like, you are going to practice appreciating this person. And so much changed without him changing one thing. Without him changing one thing. He didn't change how he lived in.
- [20:43]
B
His body or whatever.
- [20:44]
A
And that was huge for me. So I don't know, I just wanted to share that as a part of this, is that sometimes we have to catch that narrative, which I, as a therapist missed.
- [20:54]
B
Oh, absolutely. I. I actually did. I've done the exact same thing. Two years ago. For me, I was like, feeling pretty bitter about my husband and feeling misunderstood and not well treated and like, just kind of like. And I would just think and dwell on like, oh, he didn't do this, and he did do this. And like, you know, it's just so much easier when you're like, you've been doing it for 10 years, being married to someone for 10 years to notice the things that bother you. You. And yeah, I did the exact same thing. So I started a. A little note in my phone, and every night before I went to bed, I started writing down things I appreciated about Ryan. And I started to realize, oh, yeah, he did the dishes today, he did the laundry today. And those are things I just would ignore because it's just like, oh, yeah, well, he's supposed to. Right? That's negativity bias.
- [21:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [21:41]
B
He took care of the kids while I went for a run. Like, oh, well, he should. Of course he should. And I can still appreciate it, you.
- [21:49]
A
Know, but I think. I think that. That what you've just sort of. You're sort of saying the appreciation piece is also a part of this work for us too. It's. I think you mentioned perfectionism before, and I think we think that it should be. The expectation is so high that we are left with nothing but a negative bias, because the expectation and the level of perfectionism that's required to feel worthy in today's life is so high that, yeah, we're gonna let be left feeling like it's not good enough.
- [22:22]
B
I think so. I think so. And like, as much as I'm a feminist, whenever I read, like, feminist, like, social media posts about, like, mental labor of women, and stuff. It just makes me really start to be like, oh, look at all the things I'm doing and how he's not God. You know, it's so easy to go down that rabbit hole. And I think when we can acknowledge that our brains have a natural built in negativity bias, they're trying to protect us. Thank you, brain. Thanks for trying to protect me. I'd also like to be happy. And I can, I can also feel joy in my relationship or joy in my life when I kind of manage my brain. Like, I get a little more intentional about my, my focus.
- [23:01]
A
So for folks who are like, maybe willing to consider alternatives to this negative bias or this catastrophization, I'm also wondering, because I'm assuming I'm pretty in my head of my listeners, but I'm also wondering if they're feeling like, well, isn't that just toxic positivity? And I think that we often swing from negative to assuming the solution is the complete opposite, which is gross degrees of positivity. What would you encourage people to do if they're noticing that their brain naturally catastrophises and has a strong negative bias? To what degree should they pivot?
- [23:40]
B
I would start with a few practices. This is what I would recommend on a really practical level. And I think we've got to come back to the function of this. So I don't know, do you want to talk about, like, why we resist this first or should we talk about why we resist this second?
- [23:54]
A
No, let's just. That's where we're at. That's where I'm at. So let's do it.
- [23:58]
B
Yeah. So catastrophizing. We like to catastrophize because it excuses us from taking basic value based action. If I say everything is awful, everyone hates me, my boss is so completely unfair, and he's probably gonna fire me. That excuses me from taking action to like, put in hard work at work. Like, it gives me an excuse. And I don't mean like, you're just trying to be lazy and excuse, but like, our brain is very good at creating protections and defenses against caring, right? Oh, the world's just going to hell in a handbasket. That is very, that's very protective from, like, I'm gonna try to make my neighborhood a better place. I'm gonna love my kids. I'm gonna like, take cookies to the new move ins, right? I'll attend city council, whatever it is, right? And if it's like, yeah, nobody likes me, I just ruin every relationship. I'M in. Then it's an, it's an excuse. It's protecting me from getting hurt by trying to get in a new relationship or make a new friend.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah.
- [25:07]
B
Worry is another, like, sneaky form of self protection. And so, like, we have to admit that you secretly like negativity bias because it protects you from taking action in line with your values. But in the end, it's not working out for you. Like, it is not leading to the like, rich and joyful life that comes with also feeling a little anxiety or working or putting your heart out there and getting it stomped on occasionally.
- [25:34]
A
I think you just hit the nail on the head right here. Something just came alive inside me is. I also think, and I'm going to speak directly to folks with OCD here because they're a part of our community is I think that our brain catastrophizes because it is a really good way to propel you into doing compulsions. For as long as you're doing compulsions, you're keeping that condition alive. Right. And I think that you just hit something on the head is sometimes, I think if we catastrophize and it does keep us in that compulsion, we kind of, as much as we don't want to do compulsions, we do because it stops us from having to feel uncertain. It stops us from having to feel high levels of anxiety or vulnerable or whatever the guilt, whatever it is. So I think that that is a really good breakdown of like, like catastrophization or this negative, strong negative black and white thinking does keep us in behavior so we don't have to feel.
- [26:36]
B
That's right. And if we look at negativity bias, for example, it's like, oh, me just noticing the negative from my husband protects me from feeling. It protects me from feeling a little bit of like, hurt by being angry or numb or being jaded. Right. Or resentful. And it protects me also from feeling love and joy and connection with him because that might lead to more like I might get hurt too. It's this very sneaky form of emotional avoidance. So when you said, you know, well, what if you say, well, you should try to experience, I mean, okay, the basic practices for treating or managing or like managing your brain's negativity bias are appreciation, gratitude, noticing the positive. Right? And then we have this knee jerk reaction that says, no, the world's terrible. That's toxic positivity. This is just blowing smoke up my. Whatever, right? So we have this defense. And if you notice that defense, that defense is trying to protect you from feeling both joy and sadness. Yes. That defense is there to protect you from caring enough to pick up trash in your neighborhood. That defense is there to try and protect you from feeling hurt. So then the solution, like, the deeper solution is willingness. Like, can you allow yourself to say, you know what? I'm gonna go, like, sit with my neighbor at her immigration hearing, Even though this is very stressful. Yeah. Like, this is uncomfortable and joyful at the same time. Like, I'm gonna go do something good with this.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah. I feel like it's such an important point. I cannot tell you how many clients I have sat with who have said, I'd prefer to think negatively right now to prevent myself from being hurt or having. You know, they're like, they're grieving ahead of time, or they're worrying ahead of time that if I just worry now, I might protect from that future thing. So I think that is a huge piece of. Of what we're ultimately talking about here. So would you say, is it a matter of being curious about other stories first and then. And being willing to feel, or is there maybe some micro steps between those two that you would recommend?
- [28:57]
B
I love talking about this stuff, like, the deep brain science and also, like, oh, here's the function of these behaviors. Right. But when it comes down to when the rubber hits the road, there's a couple basic practices. And I would say, like, start with these practices, and then when you notice your resistance, get curious about that resistance and look for your story. Because I did that, too one day. You know, I learned from Nick Wignall about this whole scheduled worry thing and how to worry less by just, you know, scheduling in a time to worry. And I. I started doing it, and I was like, holy cow. I am worrying so much less. And I was driving down the road one day, and I had this thought come to me. What if God sends more trials my way because I'm not worrying enough to prevent them? And then I was like, oh, my gosh, there it is. That's the thing. That's why I've been worrying so much. I have this, like, very superstitious idea, and I still believe in God. I just don't think he's like that.
- [29:54]
A
And so, like, God's not that tallying.
- [29:56]
B
Your hours and minutes of worry.
- [29:58]
A
Like, wait a second.
- [30:00]
B
Yeah. If Emma worries six hours a day, I don't have to have, like, anything hard happen in her life ever. It's like, yeah, right. Yeah. So then it's like, okay, let's do these basic practices. The basic practices, practices are could you do a three good things practice every day. So three good things is like, what are three good things that you brought about today? And you write it down. I often do things like this just in my notes app on my phone, but it's great if you text it to someone else. And there's also, there's a bunch of little journaling apps that you can do this in. But you know, the research shows that they did this with college students. They, they took college students, they had them do three good things every day for two weeks. They tracked the positive benefits. They found that their mood improved, their energy improved, their positivity improved, their depression scores decreased. And then they checked in on them three months later. And those who had done the activity were still had higher mood and better energy. Like, better, like decreased depression scores. And then they checked six months later and it still had an impact. So doing two weeks of like noticing, and this is a very specific one, it's not just noticing like what you're grateful for, but it's noticing what are three good things that you brought about today. It's like a five minute exercise that can have really good, so good benefits. And like, I often find myself as a mom, I'm just like, oh my gosh, like, am I doing a good enough job? Like, did I support my child this way? I kind of yelled at this thing. The house is a mess. Like, and then I just sit down. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm. I hugged every one of my kids today. They had clothes, they had food. I showed them that I cared about them. I spent time with them. I like, it's just so easy to just notice all the bad things we do. It's easy for me.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah. Okay, so again, I'm thinking out loud here. Everything you're saying is so beautiful. And I think for some people, I think that they also just have to be willing if their brain is particularly gnarly. They just, just have to let their brain have a tantrum and say all the negative things and not engage with it. Right. Like, sometimes our brains get stuck. But you just talked about how like your kids have clothing and your kids have food and you hugged them all and you gave them time. What about folks right now who aren't living according to their values? Like, they aren't doing those basic things. They have maybe some evidence that they have very hyper aware of that they didn't do or they didn't do something well, or they made a mistake or they're maybe they're depressed and they're not getting out of bed. Like, is it that you have to do the behavior change and then use that with a negative bias or would it be working on your negative bias so you can do the behavior change? Is it a combo? Like, I'm wondering if people are feeling like, yeah, but I, I believe this isn't a bias. It's a, I believe in my heart that I'm terrible and bad. What would you suggest?
- [33:02]
B
Hmm, that's a good question. I can think of a couple things I would try. I would test and see like which of this would be workable because it's always looking for the low hanging fruit when you're really stuck, right? You look and see what is going to be, what's going to get you like just a little bit of momentum. And first thing I would say is, well, what do you value? Like, okay, let's say all day long you yell at your kids and your house is trashed. Okay, what does that say about what you value? Like if you feel bad about this, then you value a little bit of kindness and you value a little bit of cleanliness. And if your brain is saying, well, I can't be perfect at these so I might as well not bother, Then you say, hello, black and white thinking, thank you. You like, let's just try one thing, right? And I, I would say action usually precedes mental change. I would say that, I would say action usually precedes mental change. And I think values clarification is really helpful. So if you're feeling like you're a terrible friend, then you say, then that means I value being a kinder friend. Okay, what's one small way I can do that today? We line our actions up with those values and then we give ourselves a lot of appreciation and acknowledgement. We write it down, we say it out loud, we record it in our journal, we take a picture, something to re emphasize that to our brain that is steeped in negativity because motivation is very circular, but it usually comes like after it's. Motivation starts after a behavior, not before a behavior. So you do the behavior and then you give yourself credit and you acknowledge the good you do. If you can't get yourself to do any behavior, I mean there's a lot of ways to jumpstart behavior, but like get a body double, get someone to do it with you. Build an accountability partner. Try some medication. Try a completely different exercise that you're willing to do. Like, oh, you're not willing to go like clean your House. But you're willing to go for a walk. Okay. Like, any kind of physical movement is helpful there.
- [34:54]
A
Yeah.
- [34:55]
B
And I guess the other thought that I had was, like, what are you consuming? And by consuming, I mean, usually I mean, like, social media and news, and there are really good, positive sources of information out there. So I make sure to follow, like, the good news network. I make sure to follow, like, positivity daily. I make sure to follow, like, the Instagram channels that sometimes make me cry because they're really sweet, like, and happy. I make sure and watch, like, funny cat videos every day. Like. Yeah, because there is good news and you just probably didn't hear about it because it's not as loud. So, like, you can change your perception by, like, what you consume. You can start even, like, in my marriage, like, you, you know, you just start looking for and writing it down. That's a practical step to challenge negativity bias. You look for the good every day and you write it down.
- [35:50]
A
Yeah.
- [35:50]
B
And. And it's stuff like, there's always something. There's always something good.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah. And I think that what comes to mind, and I've talked to clients about this before, is it might be that you have to get mic, like, you know, micro aware of little things that you haven't noticed. Like, I had a client, a conversation with a client not long ago, and we were talking about this. Like, they were like, I'm just a terrible person. I do all things bad, and I am bad, and I have bad thoughts, and I am just bad, bad, bad. And I was like, okay, that's cute. Like, so how did you get here? Well, I drove. Okay. Did you stop at the stop sign?
- [36:29]
B
Right. Wow.
- [36:30]
A
Like, because people were walking by that. That's a pretty cool thing. Like, you naturally. You didn't even have to think about it. You stopped at the stop, let someone cross the road. Tell me about going to the grocery store. Oh, you put your cart in the little section where you're put. You're supposed to put your carts.
- [36:45]
B
Like, yeah.
- [36:46]
A
Okay. Yeah. All right, let's keep looking. Let's keep looking. Like, oh, you saw a dog and you patted the dog.
- [36:52]
B
Oh, how lovely.
- [36:53]
A
I'm sure that made a big difference in that dog's day. So I think it's like, sometimes we have to get really micro, too. Like, simple, basic. And again, I think our negative bias like yours is like, well, that's not enough. Like, but I think we have to get basic to. To move from that low, low level of negativity.
- [37:11]
B
Ooh, I, I love what you're saying because you're so in tune with how people do get stuck in these, like, molasses of, like, I'm just, I'm only bad. And it's like. But, yeah, like, and. And usually when we've built this habit or this mental rut of only focusing on the negative in ourselves, we literally cannot come up with on our own. Like, the positive things that we do, like, they were completely. We're completely blind to those things.
- [37:37]
A
Yeah.
- [37:38]
B
We often need someone's help.
- [37:39]
A
Yeah.
- [37:40]
B
Often need someone's help to see that.
- [37:41]
A
You're amazing. Thank you for having this conversation with me because I feel like it's so important, you know, And I, I do believe. And I don't know if there's research, but I think if we can catch this negative bias, we protect ourselves from depression. Like, it's a protective factor in having this, this tool in your toolkit. So thank you so much. Is there anything that you feel like we've missed on this topic that, you know, you want to drive home or you want to sort of. I'm even okay if you need to meander from a different direction. But is there anything that you feel like folks need to hear?
- [38:15]
B
I mean, I just think the three essential practices are appreciation, which is showing other people, like, that you can appreciate them. Gratitude, which is being grateful for what you do have. I think sometimes people feel guilty and bad doing that, but just even noticing, like, gosh, I have running water today, it's clean. That's really cool. And then the third, you know, is the three good things. Exercise. Like, I would just say, like, kind of build a system. You've got to build a system into your day to make these happen because your default is not going to be noticing these things.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah.
- [38:52]
B
So whether that's meditation or journaling or prayer or expressing it to someone, like sharing it with someone, you've gotta put a reminder in your phone or this is not gonna happen.
- [39:04]
A
Yeah, I agree. And for those folks I just finished by saying those folks with ocd, intrusive thoughts that are very repetitive, like, it's also okay just to let them be there and not give them your attention always and just be an observer to them if they're really relentless and you're feeling stuck in. For those especially who have these all day, I've had clients say that means I would have a full time job of having to counter all these negative thoughts. And I'll say, don't do that. Go live your life like you said. And sometimes that Just allow and observe those thoughts to be there. And, of course, always we talk about being as gentle and kind as you can, because this is noli. Sometimes our brain can be gnarly.
- [39:47]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, I have two more thoughts. I have two more thoughts. One of them is, sometimes when it's very hard to show compassion to ourselves, it's easier to start showing compassion to other people. Like, you start practicing that, and then you can start framing that toward yourselves. Right? So it's like, oh, I hate myself. I'm such a terrible person. It's like, okay, can you just go say kind words to other people now? Some people clearly have a bias where they can say kind things to others and not to themselves, but that's one way to start exercising that compassion. Yeah.
- [40:15]
A
Yeah.
- [40:16]
B
And the last thing I would say is countering a negativity bias is not about having a positivity bias. It's not about just seeing the positive. It's not about only noticing the good. It's not about just being blindly optimistic and ignoring that there's bad things happening. Countering a negativity bias is bringing in the. And it's saying, yeah, there are some bad things in the world, or, I did make some mistakes, and I'm gonna be more freaking honest about observing and noticing what's around me. And I'm gonna be honest about noticing the good that I do too. I'm gonna be more honest about adding in both the joy and the pain. Oh, my gosh. I love my husband. I really appreciate that he did the laundry, and I feel hurt that he didn't do the recycling the way I wanted him to.
- [41:05]
A
Yes.
- [41:06]
B
And it's holding both. It's holding both. It's getting better at feeling instead of just trying to not feel sad anymore or not feel hurt.
- [41:16]
A
Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad you brought it home that you said that, because I think that is true. It's not swinging the other direction into, like, always being positive and so forth. I love it. It is in the end. Okay, tell us where people can come to learn more about you. Your YouTube channel, your services.
- [41:35]
B
Yeah, I've got a YouTube channel. It's called therapy in a nutshell, And I try to make mental health education free and easy to access. So I've got a couple really cool courses. One of them is called how to process your emotions, and it's entirely free on YouTube. You could Google that. I have another course on anxiety, breaking the anxiety cycle, and it's also free on YouTube. So you could check those out.
- [41:54]
A
Amazing. Thank you so much for being here with me today. It's always fun to chat with you. I love it so much.
- [41:59]
B
Oh thanks so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Love talking with you.
- [42:05]
A
Please note that this podcast or any other resources from CBTSchool.com should not replace professional mental health care. If you feel you would benefit, please reach out to a provider in your area. Have a wonderful day and thank you for supporting CBTSchool.com.