Die With Zero: Are You Giving Your Kids Too Much? - 575

Summary

Your Money, Your Wealth

Episode 575: "Die With Zero: Are You Giving Your Kids Too Much?"

Date: March 31, 2026
Hosts: Joe Anderson, CFP® & Alan "Big Al" Clopine, CPA
Summary by AI

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Overview

This episode centers around the question: “Should you die with zero? Are you giving your kids too much?” Joe and Big Al dig into listener questions, spitballing advice on how to juggle retirement planning with financial support for (often already successful) kids. They cover real-world scenarios involving high net worth families considering early retirement, big inheritances, gifting strategies, annuities, tax moves, and planning for family members with special needs. As always, their advice is analytical but delivered with their trademark humor and relatability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Retirement and Generational Wealth: Lloyd & Diane’s Situation

[01:53–10:40]

• Background:
  Lloyd (50) and Diane (50), with $8.4M net worth and teens; planning to retire—with Lloyd in 3 years, Diane in 6.

  • Home is $1.5M value, with a $750k mortgage (10 years left)
  • $4.4M in brokerage, $3.5M in 401ks, $500k in Roth IRAs
  • Saving $20k/month (to brokerage)
  • Expecting to up spending from $250k/yr now to $300k/yr in 6 years
  • Want to give to kids while alive, plus leave homes and some assets

• Is Their Retirement Budget Doable?

  • “Quick answer. Yes.” – Big Al [04:30]
  • Joe notes even with early retirement, their withdrawal rate is super sustainable given their assets.
  • Working longer only strengthens their position.

• Tax Moves?

  • Both agree Roth conversions are a must after they retire and before RMDs kick in.
  • “I think you do Roth conversions all day long because you're gonna retire young…” – Joe [05:39]
  • Waiting for lower brackets before converting.

• Asset Allocation Review

  • Heavy in stocks, small bond portion, and a notable chunk in “hedge funds.”
  • Joe is skeptical:
    "I don't care for them... 2 and 20? No, thank you." – Joe [06:43]
    “They can outperform… but minus the fees…”
  • Al recommends possibly increasing bond allocation closer to retirement for greater distribution safety.
  • “Maybe you rebalance the stocks into like a 30% bond portfolio in the brokerage account as you get closer to retirement.” – Big Al [08:14]
  • Overall, both recommend dynamic planning to stay tax efficient and manage risk.

• Giving While Alive

  • Joe: “I think they have enough cash and capital to give to their kids while they're alive and enjoy it. They could spoil them.”
  • Al recommends taking advantage of the rule of 55 for penalty-free withdrawals from 401k if Diane waits that long to retire.

• Notable Commentary on Wealth Accumulation

  • “You’re probably at age 50… certainly in the top 5%, if not [the] top 1%.” – Big Al [10:40]

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2. Die With Zero & The “Too Successful” Kids: Kent’s Multi-Million Conundrum

[11:40–24:12]

• Background:
  Kent (73, wife 70):

  • $12M net worth; $8.5M in retirement, $3.5M in other accounts
  • No debt, fully paid-up $2M life insurance, $85k/year Social Security
  • Three highly successful adult children; all financially thriving
  • Considering buying a $1M immediate annuity for guaranteed lifetime income
  • Wants to spend/gift to children now, as per "Die with Zero" philosophy

• Annuity Analysis

  • Both agree: He doesn’t need an annuity given his asset base.
  • "There's absolutely no reason for an annuity." – Big Al [21:30]
  • “What an annuity does is it will guarantee a certain level of income for the rest of your life. ... If you live a long life, you could win.” – Joe [17:30]
  • If his primary goal is maximizing legacy, keeping flexibility is preferable to locking funds in an annuity.
  • Annuitizing assets means higher income, but less for estate—"If you don’t have heirs, an annuity can be strategic. With heirs, less so.” – Big Al [17:39]

• Tax Planning Is The Real Need

  • "He’s got a tax problem. ... Get as much money in a Roth as you can." – Big Al [23:51]
  • With big RMDs and kids in high tax brackets, the biggest gift would be converting as much to Roth as possible.
  • Discuss Qualified Charitable Distributions (QCD) as a tax-advantaged giving tool.

• Behavioral/Emotional Side

  • Both acknowledge that big savers have trouble actually spending.
  • “It's hard to turn that switch when your mentality is being frugal.” – Big Al [22:56]
  • Their humorous summary: "Live it up. Buy a new car. Go first class, whatever. You've got plenty of money!"

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3. Managing Modest Wealth & Anticipating Inheritance: ENT’s Balancing Act

[25:05–33:35]

• Background:
  ENT (34 & 31, Missouri):

  • $600k paid-off home (after parents' help)
  • $200k in 401ks, $55k in Roth, $30k HSA; investing $3,000/mo for retirement
  • Planning for 3–4 kids; want to pay for college, down payments, retire early, and still leave an inheritance
  • Projected big future inheritance (possibly $10–15M split with brother)

• Pressed Priorities: Save for Self or Give to Kids First?

  • Main worry is balancing saving for kids’ college/down payments versus their own retirement.
  • Joe & Al advise not to scale back retirement savings to fund brokerage/college early: “I don't think so.” – Joe [29:58]
  • Save as much as possible in tax-advantaged accounts now (401k + Roth + HSA).

• Long-Term Calculations

  • Al runs the numbers: “30 years is an awful long time… you’ll probably have about $4.9 million” (not counting inheritance).
    • At retirement, with Social Security, withdrawal rate is sustainable.
  • “You're in the ballpark. ... And that's–” – Al [32:15]

• Handling Inherited Wealth and Family Variables

  • Future inheritance may change things, but shouldn’t be a planning linchpin.
  • Do regular check-ins; life and family (number of children, brother’s status, etc.) can change.
  • “This is dynamic. ... It's not like here you're going to set it and forget it.” – Joe [32:56]
  • Don’t “overstress”; they’re doing great for their age.

• College Funding Tip

  • Try to get grandparents to contribute more if possible, especially to 529 plans.

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4. Special Needs, Housing, & Legacy: John’s California Question

[34:14–41:28]

• Background:
  John (68) & wife (66), San Francisco Bay Area:

  • $2.8M in retirement savings (mostly traditional IRA)
  • $141k in brokerage, $134k Roth IRA
  • Two adult daughters living at home, both on the autism spectrum, both dependent
  • $1.7M appreciated family home (owned >30 years)
  • Seeking to maximize inheritance for daughters—debating moving to Nevada (cheaper, free up equity?) vs. staying put

• Should They Sell the House and Move?

  • “I do the opposite. Stay home.” – Big Al [37:43]
  • Real estate in San Francisco is likely to appreciate more than Nevada. Better to keep it as inheritance, then let daughters (with family/advisors’ help) sell later.
  • “Live where you want to live because either works fine. But...to leverage the inheritance, stay in San Francisco.” – Big Al [38:04]

• Care & Flexibility

  • Plan is to provide maximum support for daughters after parents’ passing through inheritance, trusts (ABLE, special needs trust), and careful estate planning.

• Consideration for Long-Term Care Insurance

  • Even with past health issues, try underwriting:
    “For long term care ... sometimes health conditions make you more favorable... so I wouldn't give up on that just yet." – Big Al [41:00]

• Philosophy

  • Ultimately, emphasizes happiness and practicality: If social/family/housing situation is working, no need to move for financial reasons alone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lloyd & Diane’s Success:
  “Congratulations, you’ve done quite well. ... You are probably at age 50 ... in the top 5%, if not [the] top 1%.” – Big Al [10:40]

• On Hedge Funds:
  “I don't care for them. ... 2 and 20? No, thank you.” – Joe [06:43]

• The Annuity Dilemma:
  “There’s absolutely no reason for an annuity.” – Big Al [21:30]

• On Spending in Retirement:
  “Live it up. Buy a new car. Go first class, whatever. You’ve got plenty of money.” – Big Al [22:46]

• Addressing Frugality:
  “It's hard for people like this to spend, though. ... It's hard to turn that switch when your mentality is being frugal.” – Big Al [22:56]

• Generational Wealth Perspective:
  “Why would you even be worried about that if you think you're going to get even a couple million bucks?” – Joe, on ENT’s inheritance anxiety [32:28]

• On Dynamic Planning:
  “This is dynamic. ... It's not like here you're going to set it and forget it.” – Joe [32:56]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:53] Lloyd & Diane's early retirement situation
• [04:30] Spitballing whether their budget is doable
• [05:14] Tax strategies and Roth conversions
• [06:43] Critique of hedge funds in asset allocation
• [08:14] Adjusting bond allocation for income needs
• [09:41] Rule of 55 for 401k withdrawals
• [11:40] Kent's "Die With Zero" scenario and kid's financial success
• [17:30] Deep dive into pros/cons of annuities
• [23:51] Roth conversions as the real multi-generational wealth tool
• [25:05] ENT's young family, inheritance question
• [29:58] Should they save for college/down payments or focus on retirement?
• [32:56] Dynamic life/financial planning advice
• [34:14] John in SF Bay Area, special needs daughters, and legacy
• [37:43] Reasons to stay in the Bay Area home
• [41:00] Don't automatically dismiss long-term care insurance

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Episode Tone & Style

• Analytical yet lighthearted: Blunt assessments but with regular digressions into humor about movies, drinks, and daily life.
• Direct and practical: Frequent “quick answer” bullets, data-driven back-of-the-envelope calculations.
• Empathetic: Acknowledges the real challenges (behavioral, practical, emotional) of both giving and letting go.

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For Further Action

• Listeners with similar situations are encouraged to check out the free Estate Plan Organizer and Retirement Readiness Guide mentioned in the episode.
• For personalized spitball analysis, submit questions or schedule a session at the podcast website.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode underscores the importance of knowing your own goals, managing behavioral barriers to spending and gifting, optimizing for taxes, and keeping plans dynamic—no matter how large or small your portfolio. For high net worth families, strategic Roth conversions and considered estate planning (not annuitizing unnecessarily) are central, while those still accumulating wealth should focus on staying the course and not letting future windfalls undermine their own security.

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Transcript

[Andi La]

Joe and Big Al spitball on how to build your own retirement and support your kids financially Today on youn Money, you wealth podcast number five 75. Lloyd and Diane in Montgomery county are 50 with $8.4 million. Can they retire early and still be generous with their kids? Ent in Missouri are 34 and 31 with 255k and hopefully some big inheritances in the future. Can they fund the kids college and help them buy their first homes and retire early? Kent in Kansas City is 73 with 12 million buc and $2 million in life insurance. Do Joe and Big Al back up his plan to buy an annuity, gift money to his kids now and still spend freely in retirement? Die with zero style. Finally, should John in the San Francisco Bay Area sell the family home and move to Nevada or hold the house for his autistic daughters to inherit later? Follow us on YouTube and watch us do YMYW in person. Turn on notifications so you don't miss a thing and join me in the conversation in the comments. How are you juggling retirement planning with helping your kids? I'm executive producer Andi La and here are the hosts of your Money, you, Wealth, Joe Anderson, CFP and Big Al Clopine, cpa.

[Joe Anderson]

Let's go with. Hi guys. This is Lloyd and Diane.

[Andi La]

And that one's from say Anything Dobler.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh no.

[Big Al Clopine]

Really?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, say anything. That's. That's the movie with the cusack, right?

[Andi La]

Yeah. John Cusack and what was her name?

[Joe Anderson]

Holding up the boombox over his head in the rain.

[Andi La]

Yes, that's the one I own Sky. That was her name. Yes.

[Joe Anderson]

Look at the picture of him at the boombox. That's like an icon picture of.

[Andi La]

Yeah, that one.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. There you go.

[Big Al Clopine]

There you go.

[Andi La]

Playing in your eyes. Peter Gabriel.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh yeah, but I was Gabriel.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'd say half the movies. I don't even remember if I saw him or not.

[Andi La]

I'm with you.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'm totally doing that as soon as

[Andi La]

I walk out of the movie theater.

[Big Al Clopine]

I don't even remember if I saw him.

[Joe Anderson]

Hi guys. This is Lloyd and Diane writing to you from Montgomery County, Maryland. Love the show. First, the important stuff. Lloyd drives a 14 year old pickup. Diane drives an 8 year old sedan. No car payments. Lloyd likes Maker's Mark, neat. Diane likes a glass of Chardonnay. We love margaritas and travel. We own our home, which is worth about $1.5 million with 750,000 ten years left on the old mortgage. We have three teenagers and expect to have enough 529 money saved for their college. We're 50 years old. Lloyd plans to retire in three years. Diane plans to retire in six years. Our current savings, $4.4 million in a brokerage account. Wow. Lloyd.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, now we're getting up there.

[Joe Anderson]

There you go. Allocated 55% stock, 20% bond, 20% hedge fund equity, 55% REIT. Planning to save additional $20,000 a month for the next three years until Lloyd retires.

[Big Al Clopine]

Into the brokerage account.

[Joe Anderson]

$240,000 a year. Right. Into the brokerage account. $20,000 a month they're saving.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's correct.

[Joe Anderson]

All right. Three and a half million dollars in combined 401 s, $500,000 in Roth IRAs. Geez, Lloyd. Diane, I think you're.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

He's 50.

[Big Al Clopine]

They are savers.

[Joe Anderson]

What is that, 900,000? I mean, $9 million?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. It's $8,400,000.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. Loyne has a small pension that covers our health care, and that's about $30,000 a year annually. It won't adjust for inflation until he's at least $60,000. We're not sure what our Social Security distributions will be, but I'm guessing $100,000 in 20, $44 or $55,000 today. Oh, look at you, Diane. Just doing some shit. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, that value got the old HP12C out.

[Big Al Clopine]

She does.

[Joe Anderson]

Currently spending $250,000 annually after inflation. That will be about $300,000 when we both retire in six years.

[Big Al Clopine]

And I got the same number, so she knows what she's doing.

[Joe Anderson]

We plan on buying a second home somewhere warm in the next six years when we both retire, so we'll always have a house payment. We plan to leave our homes to our kids and ideally give some of our liquid assets to them while we're alive. Appreciate a little spitball here and your thoughts on any of the following. Let's go. Is our annual retirement budget doable? And if so, will we have extra money to give to our kids while we're alive?

[Big Al Clopine]

Quick answer. Yes, and I'll give the math behind it.

[Joe Anderson]

Well, let's go. Yeah. They want to spend $250,000. I bet their accounts. When do they want to retire? Three years.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, he'll retire a month.

[Joe Anderson]

They got 8.8. I'm going to be. It's going to be close to $10 million. 3% of 10 is 300 grand.

[Big Al Clopine]

I just did it now, just to see. What about retiring now? And they want to spend 250? They got a pension of 30 leaves 220,000. Distribution rates 2.6%. I'm good with that. But if you work an extra three years and six years, even better, Right?

[Joe Anderson]

Yep. All right. Any tax moves we should make in the next few years?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. But we don't know what I mean. He or she is saving $20,000 a month, $240,000 after tax of savings. They're spending $200,000. That's five. They got to be making a million dollars a year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. I think that the answer is you wait until you're in the 24% bracket or lower to start doing Roth conversions.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep. They're not. They gotta be in the highest tax bracket.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think so. But I think you do Roth conversions all day long because the.

[Joe Anderson]

Because you're gonna retire young. It's not like you're gonna retire at 70 and you only have five years to get like $8 million out of a retirement account. You're gonna retire at 55. Let's call it 53.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

They're several years, and they probably not

[Big Al Clopine]

even gonna touch their tax deferred or very little. Right. So that's gonna be 7 million, 809 million.

[Joe Anderson]

It's going to be a big.

[Big Al Clopine]

Imagine the RMD on that big number.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. 4, 500 grand.

[Big Al Clopine]

Correct.

[Joe Anderson]

Let's see. Is our asset allocation appropriate? I don't know. You don't. Like. With the brokerage account, you're going to be. You need to transition the brokerage account a little bit because you got to live off of that. I don't know how tax efficient it is. You got 55 stock, 20% bond, and then you got this hedge fund, because they got $4 million, they filled out. They had to buy an underperforming, expensive, exotic investment.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's right. What do you think of hedge funds?

[Joe Anderson]

No, I don't care for them.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'm not a fan either. But maybe they got the one good one.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. I don't know. 2 and 20? No, thank you. They're super expensive. And because of the constant fees. Yeah. They can outperform the market all day, every day in most cases. But minus the fees, 2%, 3% of the upside.

[Big Al Clopine]

Because they take a profit share plus fees.

[Joe Anderson]

Yes.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. So I don't know. I don't. For that reason, I don't particularly care for them either.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Well, if you look at the hedge fund index itself over the overall markets, it's abysmal.

[Big Al Clopine]

I know. Because of their fees.

[Joe Anderson]

It's terrible.

[Big Al Clopine]

Because they get a profit share.

[Joe Anderson]

Terrible. But I don't know. It sounds cool when you have the cocktail, But I got 20.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, I hear you. And it's equity, whatever.

[Joe Anderson]

I mean, 20%.

[Big Al Clopine]

That puts them at 75% equities, 20% bonds. I think when. I think they should have probably a little more in bonds. Oh, well, maybe not. What do they got, four?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, it's just to create the income that you need. So you need to pull out 200, $250,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

I know 20% of it'll probably 4.4. Let's. Maybe it's 5 by that point.

[Joe Anderson]

So that's 800,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. 800 to a million.

[Joe Anderson]

They got 250.

[Big Al Clopine]

So that's four years.

[Joe Anderson]

Four or five years. I don't know if that's enough. Well, it could be if you rebalance back into the bonds or cash, for sure.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you go 30%, but I don't think it's too far off.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, I suppose. I mean, because they're young and they still want growth and they want to give to their kids.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right. But maybe you rebalance the stocks into like a 30% bond portfolio in the. In the brokerage account as you get closer to retirement. Maybe you do that.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Because this is where they could add a lot more value of how they're looking at income, how they're constructing the income coming out of the portfolio. How do you stay tax efficient, how do you manage the risk? How do you do the conversions? I mean, there's a lot of strategy and planning that they would want to look at, given the fact that they're going to retire pretty young, they're going to be in low tax brackets for a while because they can control their taxes. If they do this right. Right. Then they can get a lot of money into the overall Roth IRAs. And that's probably the best gift that you could ever give, you know, as an inheritance to a child. But I think they want to give while they're alive. But they're also going to get a couple of nice homes, too.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right.

[Joe Anderson]

So, yeah, I think they have enough cash and capital to give to their kids while they're alive and enjoy it. They could spoil them. I think they're in really good spot.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think if Diane can at least work to 55, that's cool because then that would be the rule of 55 on the 401k. And then they could live off of that.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, that could take down to the top of the 12 or something.

[Big Al Clopine]

Even though it says six years. You know, I Think you can try retire sooner. But if you get to 55, that's, that's great because you can pull money out of the 401k, no penalty and you'll probably be in a much lower bracket. So it'll be relatively tax efficient. And you can still probably do Roth conversions.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Because the RMD on the, on the retirement account is going to be in the 24% tax bracket or higher.

[Big Al Clopine]

Or higher.

[Joe Anderson]

Right.

[Big Al Clopine]

If they don't do anything.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. So, you know, she's asking about sequencing of how to create the income. They retire in their 50s. So it might be draining some of the retirement account to live off of and conversions maybe to the, you know,

[Big Al Clopine]

that's what I do.

[Joe Anderson]

Percent tax bracket. And then you take the rest from the brokerage account.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, that's exactly what I would do.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

So a lot of really cool things that they can do on an ongoing basis.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Because. Because Joe, they got 4.4 million in a, in a brokerage account. Then there's a lot of potential strategies there as well, which is 1. What are the gains in each of these accounts and, and can you tax less? Harvest and do you have accounts with lot big gains and ones with lesser gains and those are the ones that you sell for income Anyway, there's a lot of things you can do here.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Congratulations. You know, you've done quite well. I would have to.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. You are probably at age 50. I didn't ask ChatGPT, but certainly in the top 5%, if not one.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, top 1%.

[Andi La]

Probably 0.5%. Retirement isn't all beach umbrellas and ice cold beers. What do market crashes, adult kids, moving back home and boredom have in common? They're all on Joe and Big Al's list of retirement hard truths this week on youn Money, you, Wealth tv. They're talking market volatility, inflation, Social Security timing, taxes, longevity, health care and long term care. And they're not pulling any punches. They are bringing solutions for every single one. Watch the episode, then grab our free Retirement Readiness guide to go even deeper. Income planning, tax strategy, healthcare costs. It's all in there. After today's podcast, y' all might want to dog ear the legacy and longevity chapters of the Retirement Readiness Guide. Links to both YMYW TV and the guide are waiting for you in the episode description. Free no Strings courtesy of youf Money, you, Wealth and pure Financial advisors.

[Joe Anderson]

Kent from Kansas City, are you familiar with the book Die with Zero? I am familiar with that book.

[Big Al Clopine]

Me too. I didn't read it. But I get the concept.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, die broke. The author suggests considering an annuity to let someone else guarantee that you won't run out of money to self insure. You will die with a lot left over. I have no debt. $8.5 million in retirement accounts. None is in Roth. Another three and a half in various accounts, including $400,000 in HSA, $85,000 in Social Security. I'm 73 years old. My wife is 70. Both in pretty decent help. If I buy a single life, a million dollar annuity with an annual income of about 84,000 7:50, the break even is about 11.8 years. That in Social Security give me an annual income of about $170,000. Planning on Social Security, knowing that the Ponzi scheme is running out of new investors to pay benefits if I die before break even. So what? I have a paid up $2 million life insurance policy which my wife gets tax free. Paid for the lump sum of after tax money. I can spend the remaining roughly $10 million without concern about running out of money. What about the kids? I have three. Attorney, married to another attorney, partner, big at firm.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right, we switched the pause. Married to another attorney, partner at a big firm.

[Joe Anderson]

Got it. Medical.

[Andi La]

It's actually I have three. And then he lists his three children.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes, right. That's right.

[Joe Anderson]

Got it. So the guy's loaded and his kids are super successful.

[Big Al Clopine]

They're all loaded. They're physicians.

[Joe Anderson]

And then why don't I just buy an annuity and a life insurance contract? Yeah. Is this the gist of this question? Yes, got it.

[Big Al Clopine]

But there's, there's.

[Joe Anderson]

But he's got three kids. One's an attorney, married to another beautiful attorney, huge, big law partner.

[Big Al Clopine]

Probably one we've heard of.

[Joe Anderson]

The other is a medical sonographer.

[Andi La]

That almost. That started so well and then it went off.

[Joe Anderson]

Married to another very high earning physician.

[Big Al Clopine]

And the third one, super successful. Third one's three year medical student.

[Joe Anderson]

Three year medical students at Harvard.

[Big Al Clopine]

Engaged to a software engineer. We got money coming out of this.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh my God. This family tree is quadruple fat wallet.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's happening.

[Joe Anderson]

None have education loans because I paid for them all. I plan to spend money and gift money to children now when they need it instead of when they die. How many?

[Andi La]

Not when they die.

[Joe Anderson]

A third year medical student.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, they can buy their own mansion, I guess.

[Joe Anderson]

I suppose.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. $19,000 without gift tax. $38,000 for my wife and I. We can adjust if he's just telling us what he's Going to do? When's the question?

[Big Al Clopine]

It's at the very end.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. About 70% equities now, mostly in low cost index ETFs. We have lived very nicely, not lavishly, and plan to continue that, but maybe actually enjoy some luxuries, more travel, fly business class on long trips. What do you think? Advice? They don't give advice here.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, we spitball. To recap, they got $12 million.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

Plus $85,000 in Social Security and $8.5 million is in tax deferred, and $3,500,000 is in a brokerage account. So with that in mind. Thoughts, advice?

[Joe Anderson]

I don't know. So he gets into, all right, let me buy an immediate annuity.

[Andi La]

Does he need an annuity?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, it increases his income. But, Joe, if you just look at what he's got, and he's 73, wife 70, you could probably use a 5% distribution rate. So they can probably spend 600,000 dol ish from their assets. Another 85,000 Social Security, so they can probably spend about 700,000. Anyway, doesn't seem like income's a problem. I don't have any problem with annuity in this case, if you want more income, but generally you do it when you need more income.

[Joe Anderson]

You want to guarantee insuring against longevity.

[Big Al Clopine]

And you know what, in another case, Joe, if you don't have any kids and the money's just, you don't know where it's going to go. Yeah. Go ahead, buy some immediate annuities, fixed income annuities, and let them run until you live. And you could probably live a better life in terms of spending.

[Joe Anderson]

So how would he live a better life in spending?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, not him. I'm just saying in general, why would

[Joe Anderson]

an annuity give him a better life?

[Big Al Clopine]

Not him? Well, let's take a couple zeros off the.

[Andi La]

And he said if you don't have kids, this would be a potential.

[Big Al Clopine]

I said if you don't. If you don't have kids.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh. If you don't want to worry about creating income yourself, buy an immediate annuity.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Then you don't get the guaranteed income in your. You're buying insurance is what you're doing.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right. You don't have kids, so you don't care about that part. You have 500,000, which means you can live on about 20,000 a year. You buy an annuity, you could probably double or more the income because it's for life and there's no principal left over, Right?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, but I think you're. What you're saying is a little misleading.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, okay, educate me.

[Joe Anderson]

Because you're saying you could double your income, but you're not doubling your income. You're basically taking the income off the annuity and the principal.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, let me say it differently. You could double your cash flow.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

You like that better?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, but it doesn't sound like it's better.

[Big Al Clopine]

I got it.

[Joe Anderson]

I think it's what an annuity does, is it will guarantee a certain level of income for the rest of your life. And if you die prematurely, then so be it. If you live a long life, you could win.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's right.

[Joe Anderson]

But if you look at the rate of return or the internal rate of return, it depends on how long that you live to see if it's better or worse. If you're ranking it on a return.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is if you don't really have enough to live off of and you don't have heirs, it could be a way to increase your cash flow without. Without a lot of concern.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, without risk of running out of money and going, you know, destitute later.

[Big Al Clopine]

Now the insurance company could go broke. So there is a risk there. I'm not saying it's risk free, but anyway.

[Joe Anderson]

But so then he's saying I already have a two. I already have a paid up $2 million life insurance policy that my wife gets tax free. So he's already bought that. Or is he going to take some of the annuity that he's getting from the income to buy the insurance contract?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

How do you read that?

[Big Al Clopine]

My read is he's already got the life insurance. He's already got it thinking about annuity because. Because why not, you know, like. Like a mil here. So here's his example.

[Joe Anderson]

But he's not dying broke.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, I know. I'm aware of that.

[Joe Anderson]

He's not dying with zero.

[Big Al Clopine]

But the cut. Here's the concept. Yeah, I don't think it doesn't matter at all. If he wants annuity, go for it. But you don't know.

[Joe Anderson]

He doesn't buy some land and he. Timbuktu.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, the point is he doesn't need an annuity. But here's my point. Million dollars. Four percent distribution rate. That's $40,000 a year that you could pull out for cash flow. You put that same million dollars Joe in an annuity, and according to him, he could get 85,000. So that's a little more than double. Now, I know he's 73. So the older you are, the higher the income relative to the principal. Nevertheless, I'm just. It doesn't matter for him.

[Joe Anderson]

Right.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'm just talking generally. If someone doesn't have any heirs and they're, they're a little bit tight and they don't really. They just want kind of risk free, don't worry about it. You know, I don't, I don't think that's such a bad thing.

[Joe Anderson]

So he's got to live more than 12 years for this to make sense for him.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, that's right. Or. Well, or he dies and then wife gets 2 million, so.

[Joe Anderson]

But he already has the 2 million. So why is he comparing those two strategies together?

[Big Al Clopine]

I don't know.

[Andi La]

Well, would it be helpful if the market took a giant dive and cut his portfolio in half? Would that be a good reason to actually have that kind of security in the event that something like that happens?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, yeah, if we have another Great Recession, which we could, Andy, but realized the last Great Recession was the worst in the last hundred years. It only went down for about a year and a half and then it started going up again. So it's not like this is a forever thing. And those that stayed the course, Andy, were in much better shape within, say, three years. And if you did it properly within two years, you're probably almost back to even three years. You're happy you stayed four years and on. It was a really good thing.

[Joe Anderson]

If he wants to put this on autopilot and say, all right, I want to live off $170,000 a year, buy the annuity, then you have your Social Security. All of the annuity is going to come to him as ordinary income. It doesn't really matter because the only. Oh, hold on. He's got $3.5 million in various accounts. Where's he going to buy the annuities? He going to buy it in his tax deferred account or is he going to buy it in his other account?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, might as well buy it in the tax deferred.

[Joe Anderson]

If you're going to buy it, you absolutely need to buy it in the tax deferred account because his RMDs are going to be what, 300?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, let's call it, yes, 350 grand. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

So you got a $350,000 RMD. You have $80,000. Right. So you got $450,000 roughly of income that's going to be taxed at ordinary income rates.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

There's no reason for an annuity.

[Big Al Clopine]

There's absolutely no reason for an annuity.

[Joe Anderson]

But you Want the flexibility. You don't want to have a guaranteed ordinary income source. If I could look at QCDs, if I could do conversions, if I could do. Because what. You know. And he's got $3.5 million outside.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

I'd be thinking of supplementing my income with the $3.5 million and I'd be converting that $8.5 million as much as I possibly can into the Roth IRA over the next couple of years.

[Big Al Clopine]

100% agree. So I've got three points here. Joe said the first one, Roth conversions are really important in this case, not only for you and your future taxes, but also for your kids and your. Well, say you pass away first since you're male and older. That statistics.

[Joe Anderson]

All those super successful kids are in high tax.

[Big Al Clopine]

They're in high tax brackets too. So don't you want to leave Roth IRAs to them? And the answer is yes. So that's, that's one thing for sure. Number two is QCD. Do you know about. QCD is qualified charitable distribution. You can give up to $100,000 of your RMD or actually of your IRA each year to a charity if you're charitably inclined. Right. So that's a good way to go without increasing your taxes. And third, live it up. Buy a new car.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

Go first class, whatever. You got plenty of money. The kids are in great shape. No matter what happens, they're going to end up with a lot of money.

[Joe Anderson]

So it's hard for people like this to spend, though.

[Big Al Clopine]

I know why they have 12 million. Right. They're used to not spending. I totally get that. And that's as you and I know. It's hard to turn that switch when your mentality is being frugal.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Save, save, save my whole entire life.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, I would never go first class.

[Joe Anderson]

And I see his point. It's like, I think he's sold. Dialed into income is like, well, I'll buy the annuity, I got my income. And then maybe I take more risk with the other stuff. The RMDs are going to come out. He's going to pay on taxes. That tax bracket's only going to go up. He's going to lose more money than he probably should to taxes without the appropriate planning.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

He's laser focused on let me get my income and not necessarily worry about it. And if I die prematurely, no big deal. My wife gets $2 million tax free plus another 10. 13. $10 million. Yeah, I get it. I think there's, there's more. You know, there's probably a better strategy, but he does that. He's fine. He does nothing. He's. Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. I would say the. The biggest issue here is, is he's got a tax problem. Right. So get as much money in a Roth as you can. Maybe go to the top of the 24% bracket or you might even go higher. I don't know. You have to kind of give that some analysis. But I would Jo. I'd at least be doing Roth conversions to the 24% bracket. That. That would be kind of a no brainer.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep. I agree.

[Andi La]

You may not worry about leaving anything for the kids, or it may be your biggest concern. You may have the best legacy plan in the world, but if your family can't find the details when they need them, it's like it never existed. That's where our Free Estate Plan Organizer comes in. It's a fillable document that puts everything your loved ones need to know about you in one place. Your financial accounts, insurance policies, beneficiaries, contacts, final wishes, even your pet's vet info. Fill it out, store it somewhere safe, share it with the people who need it, and update it as your life changes. And just to be clear, don't send it to us. We don't want to know where your safe deposit box is, but your kids do. Handing them a completed estate Plan Organizer is the kind of thing your family will be incredibly grateful that you did for them, even if they never say so. Download it for free right now from the link in the episode description.

[Joe Anderson]

Moving on. My wife and I are 34 and 31. Call us ENT at Missouri if we get on the podcast, please. All right. Well, we made it.

[Big Al Clopine]

You're on.

[Joe Anderson]

We made it to the podcast. Congratulations.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep. And we're only three months behind on his question.

[Joe Anderson]

We have two boys, ages 3 and 5, pregnant with a third, and we'll have a fourth if the third pregnancy goes well. And t is filling up to it. They both love dry red wine, although not drinking at the moment. Solidarity and all that. We'll be opening a 2011 Napa cab after the birth of our child. Apparently the vintage has aged well. I do enjoy a nice crisp, light beer when I'm doing home improvements or yard work. I drive a Honda Odyssey and t drives a Kia Telluride. Both paid off. We have a paid off home of $600,000. My parents gave me $500,000 when they retired, which cut our mortgage expense. 200,000 in our combined 401s, $55,000 in a Roth $30,000 in HSA fully invested. We also invest in a brokerage account but use that money like a sinking fund. So excluding that, excluding the brokerage, we are investing about $3,000 a month. Most of these are in mid or large cap growth funds. I have this consistent nagging worry tugging at me. Well, let's get rid of that tugging worry.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, let's do it. It looks like there's four worries here.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, he's going to, number one, continue to contribute to those accounts and then increase to the limits each year. Number two, being able to retire without worry about money drying up and leaving any sort of sizable inheritance to my children. Number three, pay for all the kids college. Number four, being able to get them down payments on their first homes like my parents did for me. Look at that one and two, I feel somewhat fine. Contributions towards the three accounts should be around $3 million plus inflation adjusted by the time we retire. I worry about being able to also do that in conjunction with 3 and 4. We are currently contributing to 529 plans but I believe that will be around $40,000 in each account by the time they are going to university. Expenses towards non retirement need to come from a bigger shovel or better planning. Do you think we'll be fine to back off the 401s, Roth IRAs and HSA account contributions in order to to increase our brokerage contributions? The weekly contribution to the brokerage is $330 a week. Well, I want to be able to plan in a silo. A backup exist in this show Wouldn't be what it is without this nice bit.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, there's a bid here coming up.

[Joe Anderson]

All right. My brother has no kids, paid off home about $800,000 between his retirement and brokerage accounts.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

He has said my children will be inheriting everything. Assuming he does not get married or have his own kids. Doesn't seem likely at this point. My parents will likely leave my brother and I an inheritance of about 15 to 20 million dollars.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's the bit.

[Joe Anderson]

Got that bid. Of course they have a lot of brothers and sisters. I could see us getting maybe half of that between us. You three have been great and hilarious to listen to. Kind regards. ENT.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, follow up. I'm unsure of Social Security income since in my mind there will be inevitably be an overhaul. Overhaul?

[Big Al Clopine]

Overhaul.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh, overhaul of the system. Yeah, got it.

[Big Al Clopine]

Could be.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, so if I had a guess, a low conservative number, I would draw at 67, about $24,000 a year. T would draw about $24,000 a year at age 70. Again, I know I'm being too, to close, conservative. The retirement age is another uncertainty for us. I would like to think we would work until about 65, but it'd be nice to be able to retire when I turn 55 and go part time and start drawing from retirement accounts to offset the income. Our annual spending hope would be to have a spending budget of about $110,000 after tax. Damn. Alrighty, so what do we got here? We got a 34 year old and a 31 year old. They got what, $250,000 in a home that's paid off.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

All right.

[Big Al Clopine]

And about $250,000 in liquid asset savings. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

$250,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Andi La]

And about $10 million that they're going to inherit.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, forgetting that for a second,

[Joe Anderson]

should they tone off the retirement accounts and start putting more money into a brokerage account? I don't think so.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, I don't think so either. I think if the parents. I think maybe you get the parents to contribute more to the 529. If they love their grandkids, they got the money. Right. I think I'd look at that. But just. Joe, and just in terms of calculations, 30 years is an awful long time.

[Joe Anderson]

It's done. Well, how old are these guys? 34 and 31.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, but I did it just for fun. All right, so 30 years from now, based upon adding 36,000 a year to retirement, which is what you're doing currently, based on 7%, starting with 200,000 doll probably have about 4.9 million. That doesn't even. I didn't include the Roth, so it's going to be more than that. So if you look at what you want to spend of one hundred ten thousand, thirty years of inflation, Joe, that'll be about two hundred seventy. So you want to spend two hundred seventy. Your Social Security. I just did a 2% inflation. That's about ninety based upon the numbers you gave me. Shortfalls. One hundred eighty. That's a 3.7% distribution rate. That is fine as far as five hundred and twenty nine plans. Yeah, you do want to kind of get more money in that. And, you know, maybe you kind of stuff that while the kids are young and. But you're going to have three kids, maybe four. So that's, that's an important consideration. I think I would maybe try to lean on the grandparents there.

[Joe Anderson]

But yeah, you know, I think they're doing a really good job. They have $250,000 saved at 30, 31.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's, that's, that's a great number.

[Joe Anderson]

I would continue to fully fund your 401k plans. Fully fund the Roth IRA plan.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Joe Anderson]

You know, if you have the hsa, go ahead, pump some dollars into there and whatever's left over, you can start funneling into the 529 plans of brokerage. But as they continue to age, get raises and do different things.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, then add more.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, then add more.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

I think if you just ran a flat rate of what their savings rate is today, I know that's going to increase over time. And so they're going to have significantly more. More dollars.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes. But then that's offset with more expenses.

[Joe Anderson]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's that. I guess the point is it's impossible to know. This is just a reality check. Right. Are you in the ballpark? And the answer is yes, you're in the ballpark. And that's.

[Joe Anderson]

And I think he's done some calculation. It sounds like. Yeah. One and two, I'm not too worried about. But three and four.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right.

[Joe Anderson]

Why would you even be worried about that if you think you're going to get even a couple million bucks?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, I think with the parents anyway. I don't know. I guess I don't want to presume anything.

[Joe Anderson]

I mean, but even if he already knows that he's going to get a big chunk of change from mom and dad and he's still saving the way he's saving, or should he. Saving. Congratulations. You're doing a hell of a job.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's fantastic. Yeah, no, there. I would actually, my summary is keep doing what you're doing. Really?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Just kind of keep looking at it year by year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Reassess. Take a look. What's going on? What's going well? What's not going well? How's the income do you got? You know, you can adjust over time. It's not like here you're going to set it and forget it.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Anderson]

You know, this is dynamic. You're going to change things as you age, as things happen, as maybe you have twins and now you have five kids instead of the four. And yeah, then. Yet, who knows? But then your brother, he's going to get married at 45 and have children late in life. And so there goes all of his caps that he was going to give you and the kids go to his family.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Don't overstress about this. You're doing a great job.

[Big Al Clopine]

Keep doing what you're doing 100% agree. And that I actually talked with a friend of mine today who's 60 or 61 and she wants to retire. Full retirement age. 67.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. You're doing some financial planning.

[Big Al Clopine]

I just did back of the envelope like this. A spitball. I didn't do any advice. I did a little spitball for a friend and it looks like she can retire at 67. She'd be a little bit short, but there's a couple things that she could do to bridge that gap. But I said the same thing to her. This is not a set and forget. This is something you keep looking at particularly. Don't retire until the numbers are rerun. Let's see where you're at.

[Joe Anderson]

Right, right. All right, we got John from San Francisco Bay Area. Love the podcast. We are longtime listeners, longtime listener. What is that, six months? Our situation in question is a bit unusual, but would appreciate your spitball analysis. I'm retired. I'm 68. My wife's 66. We have two daughters. One is autistic and one has been receiving Social Security of a little over $1,000 per month. Our autistic daughter has just converted to SSDI. When my wife started to collect her Social Security benefit in October, according to ssa, our daughter's benefits will be split between SSDI and SSI and our benefit level will remain unchanged. My wife is now receiving approximately $900 per month in Social Security payments. My youngest daughter is currently unemployed and suffers from anxiety and is on the autism spectrum but is not eligible for SSI or ssdi. Her income in the past has been at minimum wage. My wife gave up her career after our first daughter was born to provide the care. I hope to defer Social Security till the age 70 and my estimated payment is $5,000 per month. that time, both daughters will live with us. Both daughters live with us. We currently have approximately $2.8 million in various retirement accounts, $2.5 million in traditional IRAs, 134,000 do in a Roth IRA, $141,000 in a brokerage account. Our investments are basically split 60:40 between stocks and bonds. Given past health issues, neither my wife nor I have a long term care policy. We have no debt. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area and we own our home, which we purchased over 30 years ago for approximately $330,000 and it's now worth approximately 1.7 million. Both daughters each have an inherited IRA of approximately $108,000 and our oldest daughter has approximately $32,000 in an able account. We contribute approximately $3,000 per year and $19,000 in a special needs trust account. Current monthly expenses are approximately $11,000 per month. Our goal is to pass as much as we can when we die in order to provide for our daughters care. So as such we have considered selling our home and move to a less expensive area or state like Nevada in order to have more funds for our daughters when we are gone. Do you think that's a good idea or are my daughters better off if we stay put? The daughters better off if we stay put. And have them.

[Big Al Clopine]

And have them with the help of. And have them with the help of family and advisors. Sell the home after we're gone.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay, got it. Not really. Love this show and recommend it to friends and family. My wife drives a 2017 Subaru Outback and I drive a 2018 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. Our drink of choice is anything that contains alcohol.

[Big Al Clopine]

Not picky.

[Joe Anderson]

Perfect. Thanks for everything you do. All right.

[Big Al Clopine]

Cool.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. Yeah. Unique question.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, it's a good one.

[Joe Anderson]

It's a tough situation.

[Big Al Clopine]

Just a little baseline based upon their spend and their fixed income. Their distribution rate is 2.2%. So I like that. So good check. So we can go on to the question.

[Joe Anderson]

Sell the house, move to Nevada.

[Big Al Clopine]

I do the opposite.

[Joe Anderson]

Stay home.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Because with help of family and advisors they can sell the house and property in San Francisco is probably going to appreciate more than Nevada. Just.

[Joe Anderson]

Just saying $7 million. They can live in a really nice house for 700,000 and have another million for the girls.

[Big Al Clopine]

But do they want to?

[Joe Anderson]

Of course they do.

[Big Al Clopine]

I wouldn't. I'd pick San Francisco. Well, I'll put it this way. Live where you want to live because either works fine. But if, if you're asking financially I would stay in the San Francisco home because you'll see more appreciation than probably a Nevada home. That would be my thinking.

[Joe Anderson]

So what's the goal? Is it to leverage as much inheritance as possible?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, it sounds like the daughters may need it.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, sure. But is it to help the daughters currently as well? And how do they have enough cash cushion to take care of their daughters today as well as leverage how much they can give in the future? I mean if they're leveraging the inheritance. I agree with you. You're probably going to get better appreciation on the San Francisco go home. They bought it for 330. It's worth 1.7. Right, right. That's going to continue to grow. Yeah. I don't know. It's a tough one. I Always think, man, I. I'm gonna.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, you know, I can.

[Joe Anderson]

I'm gonna move to Arkansas.

[Big Al Clopine]

I personally am staying in California.

[Joe Anderson]

You're staying for forever, huh?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. Why not maybe half and half.

[Andi La]

Arkansas and California.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, that would be your thing.

[Joe Anderson]

No, I don't know. I. I can't see myself living in Arkansas. I go there twice a year.

[Big Al Clopine]

And you get to stay in the basement?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, I get to stay in the. Well, now, now the last couple times we stayed at my brother in law's pool house.

[Big Al Clopine]

Can you afford a hotel? I can't do that.

[Joe Anderson]

It's a little rich there. Little Rock, I suppose. Well, but yeah, I don't know. I would like to stay at a hotel, but you know, that would be rude, Al.

[Big Al Clopine]

Got it.

[Joe Anderson]

Family wants us to stay with them.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, if they want you to. And yeah, yeah, you gotta. You gotta make Rose happy too.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, I suppose. And. But yeah, it's fine. Fine.

[Andi La]

Al, do you ever have plans to be in Hawaii full time?

[Big Al Clopine]

I don't. I like California as well. Plus I have kids here. I've got. They've got a lot of connections here, A lot of friends. Pure Financial is here.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh yeah.

[Andi La]

I'm surprised there isn't a Hawaii office already, to be honest.

[Big Al Clopine]

Anyway, yeah. Actually Ann and I just talked about this like a week ago and we want to do our international travel during our go go years.

[Joe Anderson]

Go go years.

[Big Al Clopine]

I knew you'd love this.

[Joe Anderson]

What's your slow go years?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, I don't know. They're not nearly upon us, but when they are, I could see us, Andy, spending more time in Hawaii, doing less

[Joe Anderson]

international trips and then coming back to California. Your no go years.

[Big Al Clopine]

Probably because that's where the kids are. We need help. Kids.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep. Got it.

[Big Al Clopine]

They both have said they'll help us, so that's good.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, there you go.

[Andi La]

All right. So any final words on John before we move on?

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, I got one more comment. The comment, Joe, given past health issues, neither my wife nor I have a long term care policy that would be true for life insurance. But sometimes health conditions make you more favorable for long term care because the insurance companies think you're not going to live as long as you might. So I wouldn't give up on that just yet.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, I would go through underwriting. At least try out.

[Big Al Clopine]

Maybe I would too. Yeah. Yep. But that's all I get.

[Andi La]

I actually this weekend I saw Baz Luhrmann's documentary about Elvis Presley. It's like The Elvis Part 2. It's the later story of Elvis, but it's all original footage from Elvis in 70 and 71, I think. And him talking about himself in his own career is very well done. Excellent movie that was in theaters.

[Joe Anderson]

He did the movie Elvis that came out when he.

[Andi La]

Yeah, with Elvis.

[Joe Anderson]

Moulin Rouge, right?

[Andi La]

Yes. Yep. Baz Luhrmann.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, yep. I like him. Put that on.

[Big Al Clopine]

There you go.

[Joe Anderson]

Right after Stroker Ace. All right, that's the show, folks. Show Scout. You'd money you're well. Thanks for listening. Thanks for writing in, thanks for the questions, comments, all the good stuff. Yeah, Wonderful job today, Alex. You were very prepared.

[Big Al Clopine]

I was. I like to be.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

And you were fantastic, too.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh, thank you. This is the first time I read this. My reading.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, that can't be off the charts today.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, Andy, thank you and we'll see you guys next week.

[Andi La]

Shows Code your money well next week on ymyw. Is it worth it for TJ in PA and Rebels without a Gauze in New England to convert their retirement savings to tax free Roth accounts? How much should Biking Barnsie convert each year? And are Zeesi and his wife being too aggressive with their conversion strategy? Tune in to episode 576 next week and find out. This is yous Money, you, Wealth, you, Podcast. If you enjoy ymyw, tell your friends and help us reach more listeners like you. Leave your honest reviews, comments and ratings for your Money, you Wealth in Apple podcasts and in all the other apps that let you do that, like Amazon, Audible, Castbox, GoodPods, Pandora, Player, FM, Podcast Addict, and Podchaser. We are on all of them. Your Money, you, Wealth is presented by Pure Financial Advisors. To really learn how to make the most of your money and your wealth in retirement, you need more than a spitball. Schedule a no cost, no obligation comprehensive financial assessment with the experienced professionals on Joe and Big Al's team at Pure. Click or tap the free assessment link in the episode description or call 888-994-6257 to book yours. You can meet in person at any of our locations around the country or online right from your couch. No matter where you are. The Pure Team will work with you to create a detailed plan that's tailored to meet your needs and goals in retirement. Pure Financial Advisors is a registered investment advisor. This show does not intend to provide personalized investment advice through this podcast and does not represent that the securities or services discussed are suitable for any investor. As rules and regulations change, podcast content may become outdated. Investors are advised not to rely on any information contained in the podcast in the process of making a full and informed investment decision.