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Roth IRA is "The Greatest Account Ever" Per Ed Slott. But Why? - 526
00:51:11
Just about every week here on YMYW, Joe and Big Al talk about converting your retirement savings to Roth accounts. But why? What’s the big deal? Today the “IRA guru” Ed Slott, CPA returns to Your Money, Your Wealth® in podcast number 526 with...
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- [00:01]
Andi Last
Just about every week here on ymyw, Joe and Big Al talk about converting your retirement savings to Roth accounts. But why? What's the big deal? Today, the IRA guru Ed Slott, CPA, returns to youo Money, you, Wealth in podcast number 526 to tell us why he calls the Roth IRA the greatest account ever created. Here's a hint. It's all about having tax free income in retirement, plus where to prioritize saving for retirement. Jerry Tom in St. Louis wants to know, are Christian and Tiffany in Montana on track for retirement and should they rebalance their ETFs? Should Frank and Lake Wobegon's wife take her teacher's salary over nine months or 12 months? And finally, John thinks the target retirement withdrawal rates that Joe and Big Al use to spitball are too low. We'll see what they think. I'm executive producer Andi Last here with the hosts of youf Money, you, Wealth, Joe Anderson, CFP, and Big Al Clopine, cpa. And our special guest, Ed Slott, cpa.
- [01:00]
Joe Anderson
You know, we were just talking about how when we have a tax issue, we're much more likely to go to your website than the IRS website because your answers are written in English, clear and concise. Understandable. And the IRS is not quite so much that way.
- [01:17]
Ed Slott
Well, they're rigid. They have to stick to the, you know, this is code section 401A9 and this and that, and it's regs and this.
- [01:24]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [01:24]
Ed Slott
And some people just want to know, can I do this or not?
- [01:27]
Joe Anderson
Right? Right. Yeah. So let's talk about. You and I have talked about Roth IRAs, Roth conversions. I know you're very big proponent in that. But let's talk about. Let's talk about what they are, what a Roth IRA is and why. Why do people want to get money.
- [01:43]
Ed Slott
In The Roth Roth IRA is a miracle. It's the greatest account ever created. Because everything it is, there's no question it's the greatest account to have because everything in there grows income tax free for the rest of your life. And even under the new rules under the Secure Act, 10 years beyond to your beneficiaries. Imagine getting a statement in the MA and saying, this is my Roth IRA balance and it's all mine. I don't have to share it with the government. I don't have to share it with Uncle Sam. I mean, it's unbelievable. So it's a great account. The only question is, how much are you willing to pay to get it right?
- [02:23]
Joe Anderson
Right. Because, I mean, that's the catch. That's the catch. And I think it was 1997 where it first came into play from Senator Roth. Yes.
- [02:31]
Ed Slott
And you know, 8-5-97.
- [02:33]
Joe Anderson
Oh, well, see, there you go.
- [02:35]
Ed Slott
Happened to be my birthday. I wasn't born that day, but that.
- [02:38]
Joe Anderson
Was, that was your birthday. So. Yeah. So thinking about Roth, I mean, you can do a Roth.
- [02:42]
Ed Slott
I actually have the plaque up in my office, the Wall Street Journal. I happened to be in the article that day. It was passed, but not because of the Roth. Most people didn't even know that was in there until it came out. It was some homeowner provision that they made.
- [02:54]
Joe Anderson
Tax benefit. Right, right, right. Oh, that's great. So thinking about the Roth ira, I mean, you can do Roth contributions, which is kind of a smaller amount, or you can do a Roth Provision in a 401 or 403, if your company or organization has it, you can get more. But a Roth conversion, that's.
- [03:11]
Ed Slott
That's the big one.
- [03:12]
Joe Anderson
That's the big one. That's where you take money that you've already, you haven't paid tax on yet. You got a tax deduction, you know, 401k IRA, and you convert it. And I think a lot of people don't realize there's no limitations on conversions. There's limits on how much you can contribute to an IRA or a 401k Roth conversion. You can convert any amount you want. You don't have to be working. It's just what makes sense for you.
- [03:35]
Ed Slott
Right. The only limitation is your own pain threshold for how much tax you're willing to pay in one year.
- [03:42]
Joe Anderson
Right, right. Yeah, I think that's well said. So let's talk about how should people be thinking about Roth conversions and tax brackets? And how do you think about that?
- [03:51]
Ed Slott
Well, what you just hit is the fundamental principle to always paying the least amount in taxes, which is what everybody wants to do. And I call it one of my core always rules. And it's so simple to save money in taxes. Always pay taxes at the lowest rates. That's it. If you can always get your money out, like out of your ira, tax deferred accounts at the lowest rates, you'll always end up with more. And that's what this is. Moving money from an ira, a taxable tax deferred account, and paying tax. If you can get the money out at the low rates and convert to a Roth, you'll be a winner in almost every case. But you have to use the brackets, and the brackets are great. Now we have the Lowest rates historically in history, and giant brackets, a good at 12%, 22, 24%. Hundreds of thousands of dollars can pass through those brackets and still be in these unbelievably low historic rates. Everybody complains about taxes, but these are the good old days. Because I think taxes are going to go up. I mean, I don't see any way they'll ever go down.
- [04:59]
Joe Anderson
Right. And I think that's right. I mean, the past several years with the Tax Cut and Jobs act, we've had these lower rates and they're set to sunset this year.
- [05:08]
Ed Slott
I don't think that's gonna happen.
- [05:09]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, so I wanted to ask you about that.
- [05:11]
Ed Slott
No, I think.
- [05:11]
Joe Anderson
Tell me why.
- [05:12]
Ed Slott
Well, because the Congress, the Senate, House, Senate administration, they're all, they're all Republican. So it's gonna pass and that's great. They'll extend the tax cuts probably for a few more years. I don't know how many more years. But every year they extend these tax cuts. That's more years. You can use these low brackets and take advantage of. Start bringing down this taxable IRA and bringing up tax free accounts, tax free savings in your Roth. Plus to leave a Roth to beneficiaries. Imagine beneficiaries getting it and they don't have to pay tax on it for 10 years after death.
- [05:52]
Joe Anderson
Have you ever heard this question or this statement from people which is, I don't want to put money in a Roth IRA because they're just going to tax it later someday just like Social Security. They told us they weren't going to tax it, now they tax it.
- [06:05]
Ed Slott
Yeah, I've heard it. But not as nice as you've said. That's the number one question I get at all these consumer programs. I do them around the country and they don't say it as nice as you. But mostly the version is I talk about the Roth. Just like we're talking, somebody will always stand up and say, but can I trust the government to keep their word that they won't tax it in the future? And these are people, just like you said, that can't let the whole Social Security thing go from 30 or 40 years ago. You know, they said that would never be taxed and they lied. I don't trust them.
- [06:38]
Joe Anderson
Right, right.
- [06:39]
Ed Slott
So the question is, can I trust the government to keep its word that Roth IRAs will always be income tax free? And the answer is absolutely not. You can't trust the government as far as you can throw them. And as a cpa, we have an old saying, tax laws Are written in pencil and they change. But I'm going to tell you a secret here, just between us. You know what Benjamin Franklin said about secrets?
- [07:04]
Joe Anderson
Let's hear.
- [07:04]
Ed Slott
Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.
- [07:08]
Joe Anderson
Got it?
- [07:09]
Ed Slott
Here's the secret. Lucky for all of us. I'll say it quietly.
- [07:12]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [07:13]
Ed Slott
Lucky for all of us. Congress are the worst financial planners on earth. They're so short sighted. And that works to our favor.
- [07:21]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [07:21]
Ed Slott
They secretly don't say it too loud. Love, love, love. Addicted to love. Roth IRAs. Why? Because they're so short sighted, they only look at the money that comes in up front. Front.
- [07:35]
Joe Anderson
They look at what they can see.
- [07:37]
Ed Slott
Budgets, the ten years, the two year budget cycles. The only money that can get into a Roth is already taxed money. And that's why since the Roths were created and the big shift started in 2010, if you remember, before 2010, you couldn't convert to a Roth IRA if your income exceeded $100,000.
- [07:57]
Joe Anderson
That's great.
- [07:58]
Ed Slott
Back then, just like now, Congress needed money and they eliminated that provision. And that brought in the floodgates of money, including mine. I converted everything then because they gave people the deal of the century. Remember that deal?
- [08:12]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. You could pay the tax every four years.
- [08:15]
Ed Slott
No, two years. That was the original.
- [08:16]
Joe Anderson
Oh, that was the original deal.
- [08:18]
Ed Slott
I converted everything. A matter of fact, just in a session to the American College here a few hours ago, I said to the group of advisors, I guess I didn't remember. I said, I converted everything. I begged you guys to take that deal. When you were at my seminars. I took my own advice. I converted everything in 2010. And I threw out to the group, how much tax did I pay? And some people say, well, you didn't tell us the rates. And this. I paid nothing. Zero. It was a deal of the century. And they're thinking, how did I miss this? The deal was you paid nothing in 2010. Half in 11 and half in 12.
- [08:53]
Joe Anderson
That's right.
- [08:54]
Ed Slott
But in essence, the government gave everyone an interest free loan to build a tax free savings account. It was unbelievable. So. And obviously I didn't know about. Can you imagine the growth in that Roth from 2010 to where we are now?
- [09:09]
Joe Anderson
Right, right. 15 years later?
- [09:10]
Ed Slott
So Congress saw the boatload of money that came in and they said, ooh, this is good. Not realizing, you know, they're not getting any of that revenue ever again.
- [09:18]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [09:18]
Ed Slott
So then they kept expanding Roth 401ks and then Insecure 2.0, they went Rothamania crazy sep Roth IRAs. Simple Roth IRAs 529 to Roth matching contributions, Roth catch up contrib because they wanted the money up front. They love Roth IRAs because they're so shortsighted. So I would say don't worry about it because Congress, they may trim around the edges, but if they do anything that kills the golden goose, there goes their revenue source that they're counting on to fund every tax bill.
- [09:52]
Joe Anderson
Do you think someday some Congress down the road will figure this out and realize we're in trouble?
- [09:57]
Ed Slott
No, they keep kicking the can down the road and I still believe they're going to have to because as a CPA and accountant I have to believe in math. And I look at these deficit and debt levels, I don't even know what the debt is. It was last I saw 38, 39 trillion. All I know is if you have to round up to the nearest trillion, that's a problem.
- [10:17]
Joe Anderson
It's a problem, right? Yeah.
- [10:19]
Ed Slott
So we have the highest debt levels ever, the lowest revenue from taxes ever. Yeah, I don't know how long this can go on before they're going to lower the boom in taxes. People are money in their IRAs. I think tax deferred accounts IRAs, 401ks are sitting ducks for future tax increases. They're the low hanging fruit for Congress. And I don't want to have a large IRA when the music stops on this stuff.
- [10:45]
Joe Anderson
You know, you think about money in an IRA 401k and it hasn't been taxed yet. And you think about the Roth IRA which they've already paid taxes on it. But then, but then it's like what's going to happen in the future and the way things are going eventually I would tend to agree with you. Eventually it seems like tax rates have to come up because how do we afford everything we're trying to pay for, how it's possible.
- [11:12]
Ed Slott
And if tax rates do go up, you're a big winner with the Roth, even if they stay the same. So then it's a wash. And the odds of tax rates going down are nil. So the Roth is just a big bet on where we are today, tax rates today versus tax rates in the future. And I think that's a pretty good bet. Imagine you were making a bet like in Las Vegas or something, a blackjack, and the dealer showed you all his cards. That's a pretty good bet.
- [11:41]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, that's a pretty good bet. So, okay, so let's pivot a little bit. Let's talk about the Secure Act Secure Act 2.0 and the death of the Stretch IRA for most people. I mean, there's a 10 year period and a few people can still do it, but most can't. So they've got to get the money out within 10 years. And what are, how do you think about that? What strategies or how do you tell people to plan for that?
- [12:06]
Ed Slott
That was a game changer because the plans people had before that and when I was doing programs all over the country before the SECURE Act, I said, oh, the stretch IRA. IRAs are great because they can go out 30, 40, 50 years and you're talking about a massive deferral. That all ended. Why Congress needed money. Here's a little something, another secret about Congress. After studying tax law for over 40 years, one thing I've noticed is constant. Whenever Congress names a tax law, you can almost bet, almost always bet that whatever they name it, it will do exactly the opposite. So when I heard the SECURE act is coming, I said to myself, hold, hold on to your wallets. And sure enough, it was a money grab. They needed revenue. So they said, nope, we're not waiting 30, 40, 50 years, we'll wait 10 years at most. Now they've closed the window. They pushed in the window when all this buildup in tax deferred IRAs and 401ks have to come out. And it's going to come out like a fire hydrant. And massive tax increases for people. So that's what made IRAs and 401 s tax deferred accounts that downgraded those as a vehicle for wealth transfer or estate planning, especially the beneficiaries who are going to get hit by the end of the 10th year after death. So the stretch IRA for most people, beneficiaries is no more. So that means if you're listening to this or watching this and you had a plan before 2020 when the Secure act took effect, that plan probably doesn't work anymore. It behooves you to look at your plan, work with an advisor, a financial advisor that has a specialized knowledge. Because you need an advisor that knows how to navigate this and make the changes and let you know where the problems are, why your current plan doesn't work and what alternatives are available. And the alternatives we've talked about things like Roth IRAs, bringing down the IRA balance while tax rates are on sale in a firm.
- [14:05]
Joe Anderson
Good point.
- [14:05]
Ed Slott
And moving to other tax free vehicles like life insurance. That's a good choice. Anything will be better than the taxable ira.
- [14:14]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, because it's you Got to pay the tax on it one way or another. No way around. Yeah. You know, and I think a lot of people don't realize the Roth IRA, it still follows that 10 year rule. You got to have the money out in 10 years, but it's tax free. It's not pushing kids up into higher brackets.
- [14:30]
Big Al Clopine
Right.
- [14:31]
Ed Slott
And when we talk about, about kids, we always say with the kids. But the, the inheritors, the beneficiaries, they're in their 50s.
- [14:37]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. Right.
- [14:37]
Ed Slott
And they may be in their own highest earnings years. Last thing they need to inherit. Not like it's a horrible thing. Oh, I inherited money. I worked so hard for it.
- [14:47]
Joe Anderson
Right, right, right.
- [14:48]
Ed Slott
But still, the worst thing could be is to inherit a taxable account that gets blasted with taxes in that 10th year after death. With a Roth, they don't have to touch it to the end of the last day of the 10th year after death. Growing, accumulating and compounding income tax free for them.
- [15:06]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I want to pivot just a little bit for your ira.
- [15:08]
Ed Slott
That's the second pivot. That's two pivots.
- [15:10]
Joe Anderson
Okay. I get two per interview. Right. So let's talk about beneficiary designations. A lot of people like to name their trust, which isn't necessarily a great idea.
- [15:24]
Ed Slott
Well, no, there is a reason to name a trust, you know, and that's a question I get. I got it at the last seminar I just did here. Advisors always want to know because their clients want to know, when should I name a trust as my IRA beneficiary? My answer is, when do you name a trust when you don't trust? Because if you trusted them, you wouldn't need a trust. They should have called it a don't trust. That's when you name a trust when you don't trust, when you want post death control. And that's a big issue for a lot of clients I've dealt with over the years. They have a large IRA. 2 million, 3 million. I remember a client telling me years ago, I've got 3 million in an IRA. I don't even need it. I want my kids to get it and my grandkids, but I don't want them blowing it. I work too hard for this money. I want to control this after death so they don't squander it. They're always worried about what the kids will do. Bankruptcy, lawsuits, divorce. They're worried about managing money, everything. But the number one fear I used to get from clients is they would say, it's not my kids. I worry about it's the ones they marry. And that was a big concern. I had all this money and it may end up to going to some daughter in law, son in law I never even met. And they name a trust. But now because of the Secure act, I would never leave an IRA to a trust because such a horrible asset. Trust tax rates are the highest in the land.
- [16:42]
Joe Anderson
Sure.
- [16:43]
Ed Slott
The better option. You still may need a trust if you want that control. So I'm not saying trusts a bad trusts have a use. It's just IRAs are now a horrible asset it to a disaster to leave to a trust. Better option. If you have a large IRA and you're in that situation, I just said and you want control after death. Better option is bite the bullet. Convert that IRA to a Roth IRA and leave the Roth to the trust. That eliminates all the trust taxes and you can get the post death control and protection that you want.
- [17:14]
Joe Anderson
That's great advice. Now would you do that through your living trust or would this be a separate IRA trust?
- [17:20]
Ed Slott
No, it doesn't. Well, with the Roth it could be a separate IRA trust. But what's even better than and it's easy with the Roth because there's almost no rules. All that has to happen. Remember, there's no income tax and there's no RMDs in the years one through nine of the ten year term. So all that you have to know is that at the end of the 10 years the money either stays in the trust, it's not taxed.
- [17:44]
Joe Anderson
Yes.
- [17:44]
Ed Slott
Or it goes out to the beneficiary. Or it's doled out according to how you want your beneficiaries to get it. So it's very easy to name a trust As a Roth IRA beneficiary. It's very complicated. It was before with the IRAs, but we put up with that because we had the stretch ira. Now the IRA has no more redeeming qualities. So we don't need that anymore. It's like in baseball. Starting baseball season now, you could have a guy that hits a lot of home runs and all at the right time. You know, in the World Series playoffs, you love that guy. Except nobody likes him. He's a problem. He's in every scandal. But you put up with him because he hits home runs. If he stopped hitting home runs, you get rid of him. Yeah, that's an ira. There's no more redeeming qualities. It used to work, now it doesn't. So let's move on. But probably the best asset to leave To a trust when you want that control is life insurance because it doesn't even have the rules that Roth IRAs do. You can customize your own plan so you could take money down out of your IRA, pay the tax. Now, I wouldn't do this before 59 and a half because there's a penalty situation. Pay the tax, get it out at low rates. Remember, always pay taxes at the lowest rate. So you're getting rid of this problem, the ira, putting the money. And I'm talking about permanent cash value life insurance and gross tax free. And that's the best asset if you still need to control it for your kids. You can have any provision you want. You don't even have to worry about income taxes. You don't have to worry who the beneficiaries are, what categories there, who are the remainder beneficiaries. There's no tax rules. You can actually get the plan you want. You don't have to go through all these tax landmines and an obstacle course of rules.
- [19:32]
Joe Anderson
Right? Wow, you are a wealth of information as always. You've given us a lot to think about. Ed, I really. Oh, great to be here chatting with you and you taking the time.
- [19:43]
Ed Slott
Okay, thanks.
- [19:43]
Joe Anderson
Awesome. Thank you.
- [19:45]
Andi Last
Kiplinger agrees with Ed and Joe and Big al on Roth IRAs. They say that investing in a Roth account is one of the smartest money moves a young person can make. However, there are rules, so make sure you know them before you go jamming all your money into a Roth and end up paying a bunch of penalties. Download the complete Roth Papers package to understand how Roth accounts accounts work so you can take full advantage of their lifetime tax free growth. This bundle of Roth guides is packed with valuable information about Roth contributions and conversions, the backdoor Roth strategy for when you make too much money to contribute directly to a Roth, and the rules for taking money out of your Roth ira. Plus, you'll learn the differences and the pros and cons of saving in a traditional IRA versus a Roth IRA versus a Roth 401K and much more. Click or tap the link in the episode description and download the complete Roth Papers package for free.
- [20:37]
Big Al Clopine
Let's go Jerry, Tom. Jerry, Tom instead of Tom and Jerry.
- [20:43]
Joe Anderson
That's what it said.
- [20:44]
Andi Last
I suppose there's a chance that's really his name, but.
- [20:47]
Big Al Clopine
Jerry, Tom. All right. Hello. I've been listening for about a year and I love the show. Usually people last about a month.
- [20:58]
Joe Anderson
If someone lasts a year, we know they must be a fan.
- [21:01]
Big Al Clopine
It's like, yeah, all these emails I just caught your show. I love it. And then like two months later, it's like, no.
- [21:08]
Andi Last
I hear from people now who say I'm just in it for the hang. I just want to like hang out with you guys and listen to the silliness.
- [21:15]
Joe Anderson
Got it.
- [21:15]
Big Al Clopine
Just can't handle it anymore.
- [21:17]
Joe Anderson
Yep. Too painful.
- [21:18]
Big Al Clopine
Some snarky or whatever. What's the word?
- [21:22]
Andi Last
Yeah, snarky is one of them, right?
- [21:25]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, snarker. Snarky is a good one. Okay.
- [21:28]
Big Al Clopine
Whatever. Hello. I've been listening for about a year and I love the show. Hoping. Hoping to bring down the median age a little bit here. I'm 35, mine's 33. Live in St. Louis and have two children under the age of five.
- [21:45]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [21:45]
Big Al Clopine
Okay. I enjoy light beer on the golf course and enjoy a little margarita on the rocks. Okay. Got something coming here. Jerry. Tom.
- [21:54]
Joe Anderson
That sounds a little like you.
- [21:55]
Ed Slott
No.
- [21:56]
Joe Anderson
Except he's a bit younger.
- [22:01]
Big Al Clopine
He's like a pitching wedge away.
- [22:04]
Joe Anderson
Hitching wedge.
- [22:05]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah. You're a driver for sure.
- [22:08]
Joe Anderson
Oh. You're at least a hybrid.
- [22:12]
Big Al Clopine
It's definitely a wedge.
- [22:14]
Joe Anderson
It's not a wedge. I'll give you a six iron.
- [22:18]
Big Al Clopine
Oh, wow. The other way you hit it.
- [22:21]
Ed Slott
Oh, boy.
- [22:24]
Big Al Clopine
Our tendency plan is to buy a couple new cars, preferably a little Toyota or Honda in the cash and drive them for about 10 years. We currently have household income around $300,000. We peaked at 350 last year. We are top earners and our relative professions so that we do not expect any real increases in wages in the future. We believe we have been fortunate to make what we do and save what we have in the recent years. See below for our current savings. Here's the primary question though. Been working towards a pretty even distribution three bucket strategy, believing that this may actually be the height of our earning potential in taxation. Would it be reasonable to be contributing some of our income to pre tax? Hope to retire around 55 to 60, so plenty of room for Roth conversions. Current sell options on the side pretty conservatively and would hope to continue that throughout working years into retirement. So he's selling options. Current sell options on the side. So he's selling options on the side pretty conservatively. Selling options. Is that like puts.
- [23:35]
Joe Anderson
Could be.
- [23:36]
Big Al Clopine
I don't know, selling options conservatively?
- [23:39]
Joe Anderson
Well, it usually doesn't go together, but if it's covered, maybe, you know, I don't know.
- [23:45]
Big Al Clopine
I got it. Okay. The only debt we have is $250,000 left on a mortgage with 2.875% interest rate. It's worth about $550,000. We will have a healthy amount of Social Security, but not planning on it. Want to spend $10,000 a month in today's dollars. Second question. Okay, what's the first question, bro?
- [24:04]
Joe Anderson
Well, he wanted. So I think what he's asking, he wants to know where to save. He's got tax deferred, tax free and taxable. He's doing a third. A third? A third.
- [24:13]
Big Al Clopine
So it's got $250,000 in pre tax. He's got $300,000 in Roth. He's got $331,000 in post tax or a brokerage account, and another $85,000 in 529 plans. Okay, so shitty. Go pre. All right, second question is, do we have some opportunity to save less going Forward? Been investing 100, $150,000 in the last three years or so. Yeah.
- [24:39]
Joe Anderson
Okay, well, that's. That's how you have 900,000 at 8. 35.
- [24:44]
Big Al Clopine
That's giant.
- [24:46]
Joe Anderson
It's. It's unheard of. Gary, Tom, Gary, Tom.
- [24:50]
Big Al Clopine
Maybe stop drinking the light beer and go to something heavier. Planning to reduce savings, most likely to an average of only 80,000.
- [25:01]
Joe Anderson
Really? Is that all you can work out?
- [25:04]
Big Al Clopine
Oh, conservatively, yeah. All right, Max out roths and both 401k, 403b, $500 a month into Acorns account that I is likely to pay cash for the cars. Not considered a retirement savings. And then $250,000 a month up on 29 plan. Since we have a pretty good start, any excess savings is funneled in the brokerage where I sell options. Okay, so he's selling options in his brokerage account.
- [25:27]
Joe Anderson
Yep. Yep.
- [25:28]
Big Al Clopine
Why are you selling options at 31 years old in a brokerage account? I would just go hog wild.
- [25:35]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I wouldn't do that either myself.
- [25:37]
Big Al Clopine
Because, I mean, is he trying to create income anyway? I don't know if he likes it, if he's.
- [25:42]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, maybe he has fun with it. Maybe he does.
- [25:43]
Big Al Clopine
Well, maybe he enjoys it.
- [25:45]
Joe Anderson
But I mean, how many times have you heard of stories where people sell options and end up losing a lot of money?
- [25:50]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, but I mean, it depends on the risk. I don't mind taking on more risk at 31 when you're saving 150,000. I mean, this is a person that can make up for some mistakes here.
- [26:02]
Joe Anderson
That's true.
- [26:03]
Big Al Clopine
Most people.
- [26:04]
Joe Anderson
Right.
- [26:05]
Big Al Clopine
You're right. You're bringing the median age down a bit. Most of the listeners don't have the time or don't have $150,000 a year that they could replenish their nest egg.
- [26:16]
Joe Anderson
Right.
- [26:17]
Big Al Clopine
Should I go pre tax? The answer is, in my opinion, no. I would continue to jam Roth all day, every day just because you're not going to remember the tax savings that you have today. You're going to remember how much money that you have in tax free when you need the money, when you want to spend the money. I know Al's going to say pre tax because of the income that you're in, but I would say Roth, it's.
- [26:42]
Joe Anderson
Like, yeah, I won't necessarily say, I think I agree with you. And I'll say another reason why. It's because you're in the 24% bracket right now, which is a great bracket. And will this be around forever? Probably not. Right. So, yeah, I get the theory. You have pre tax, you get a tax deduction. You Roth, conversions when you retire to making less money. You're saving so much money. You may have more income than you think when you retire. And you're in a low bracket right now. So I would go all Roth right now as well.
- [27:14]
Big Al Clopine
You got $1 million at 35 years old. He wants to retire at 50, or let's say 50 to 55.
- [27:20]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, right.
- [27:21]
Big Al Clopine
Hope to retire around 55 or 60.
- [27:23]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [27:23]
Big Al Clopine
So 35, that goes to 45. That million is now 2 million if he doesn't save another guy.
- [27:28]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, but he's saving $150,000 a year.
- [27:31]
Big Al Clopine
Can I tone that down?
- [27:32]
Joe Anderson
Well, maybe. Maybe only 80. So he's going to have millions, of course, which is going to produce income.
- [27:39]
Big Al Clopine
You're right. And it's all because all that. Actually, there's only so much money that you can put in retirement accounts. Most of that money is going to go into his brokerage account anyway. I'd be careful with the option strategy, though. How much income is that spitting out? Or is he taking. Is he. Is he hedging this? Is he leveraging this? I would like to know maybe a little bit more. Or how much of that is he doing? Because you want to be a little bit more tax sensitive as this thing continues to build and grow for you. But I would go, roth, that's at 31, making that. Congratulations on the diligence that you're doing in regards to savings. He's going to buy a Toyota or a Honda. He probably drinks Busch Light, probably.
- [28:21]
Joe Anderson
And that Toyota is going to run for 200,000 miles, at least some of.
- [28:25]
Big Al Clopine
The cheapest beer out there on the golf course that he's probably playing A muni?
- [28:29]
Joe Anderson
Yep. PBR maybe.
- [28:30]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, a little PBR me. Yeah. I don't know. This is pretty phenomenal stuff here.
- [28:38]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [28:38]
Big Al Clopine
Gary Tom. I just don't understand the name and I just don't understand the option strategy. But besides that, everything's.
- [28:48]
Joe Anderson
I think I'm kind of with you. I guess if Jerry Tom were my son, I would probably say, be careful on the options. They can be tricky.
- [28:57]
Big Al Clopine
Okay, let's keep a plug in.
- [29:02]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [29:02]
Big Al Clopine
All right. Hello, Andy. Al, Joe. I need your help in the form of a big soggy spitball. Okay, here we go. I'm a 56 year old dentist and my wife is 37. We live in Montana with three kids who are 4, 8, and 9, man. 56. And you got a 4, 8, and 9.
- [29:24]
Joe Anderson
That's ringing a bell a little bit.
- [29:27]
Big Al Clopine
Little bit.
- [29:28]
Andi Last
The. I will mention the fact that the subject line on his email was, joe should relate.
- [29:34]
Joe Anderson
Oh, yeah, I see. Yep.
- [29:36]
Big Al Clopine
No, he's.
- [29:38]
Joe Anderson
Now, I, I know you're, I know you're fair bit younger, but I think you're in the same zip code.
- [29:43]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, it could be. That's a, that's another wedge.
- [29:47]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I'll give you a 60 on that one.
- [29:50]
Big Al Clopine
Oh, man, Montana. I gotta get to Montana, man.
- [29:54]
Joe Anderson
I'm just like, oh, you haven't been.
- [29:56]
Big Al Clopine
All I watch is like Yellowstone and then. Oh, yeah, what's that, 1821.
- [30:03]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I, I, I love Glacier National Park. That's a great place.
- [30:07]
Big Al Clopine
I don't think I would go there.
- [30:08]
Joe Anderson
But you would find a bar in a nice little tavern like the golf course.
- [30:15]
Big Al Clopine
I go a little horseback ride maybe there. Okay, so let's go here. I drive a 2000 Chevy Silverado, half ton, of course, here in Montana, which I've owned for 25 years and plan on still driving it until I box out.
- [30:32]
Joe Anderson
Box out. Okay.
- [30:34]
Big Al Clopine
My family strips me from my driving privileges, bro. Come on, Chris, you're 56. You're not 86. Box out.
- [30:43]
Andi Last
That came up on the show several episodes ago. Somebody said that. And I think it has kind of resonated with the listeners because a few people have used it since.
- [30:52]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [30:53]
Andi Last
As they go out in a pine box, you know, I'm gonna box out.
- [30:57]
Joe Anderson
You know, my, my neighbor, who's not very diligent on, on landscaping projects, he dug like three holes in the front yard, you know, between the two houses.
- [31:09]
Big Al Clopine
Are you one of those neighbors you called the HOA on him?
- [31:11]
Joe Anderson
No, I haven't, but. But this reminds me of that because I went over there, I saw this pile of dirt. It's been there for two weeks, which is not uncommon. And anyway, I go over there and there's three little boxes with pets names.
- [31:25]
Big Al Clopine
Oh, boy.
- [31:26]
Joe Anderson
So I guess that's going to be the graveyard.
- [31:28]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah.
- [31:29]
Joe Anderson
Well, so far they're above ground.
- [31:31]
Big Al Clopine
Got it. Well, he's sensitive.
- [31:34]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [31:35]
Big Al Clopine
He doesn't want to put him in yet.
- [31:36]
Joe Anderson
Probably not. Yeah, misses him.
- [31:39]
Big Al Clopine
Thanks for that story.
- [31:41]
Joe Anderson
I thought that would add a lot of color.
- [31:43]
Big Al Clopine
That was. That was terrible. Oh, God. My wife drives a 2019 Suburban. She's the one with the common sense in the person you actually want to be hanging out with at any sort of social engagement. My beverage of choice is a refreshing hams. Oh, man, this guy's from Montana for sure.
- [32:06]
Andi Last
Do you like hams, Joe?
- [32:09]
Big Al Clopine
I haven't had a hams in years. But yes, in Montana I would drink a hams.
- [32:15]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I think I would too.
- [32:17]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, man, if it's cold.
- [32:20]
Andi Last
If it's cold, just gonna drink it.
- [32:21]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, I mean there's. Yeah, I would much rather have a hams than a hazy IPA or all the other.
- [32:27]
Joe Anderson
Not much for the heavier stuff, are you?
- [32:29]
Big Al Clopine
No way. Or any other species of beer for that matter. And I would never review an old Fashioned regardless of time of day. Unless I'm working, of course.
- [32:39]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [32:41]
Big Al Clopine
Love this guy.
- [32:42]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. You can relate, Can't I can.
- [32:44]
Big Al Clopine
Tiffany will and does drink just about any form of alcohol and any of us have ever heard of. She's trouble in the very best way imaginable.
- [32:57]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [32:57]
Big Al Clopine
I've been listening to your podcast for the past year and I'm a big fan. All right. Figuratively speaking, I'm only 5'ten and 170 pounds.
- [33:06]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, okay.
- [33:08]
Big Al Clopine
Just built like a brick house, I bet. Strong. I mean, he's got that big ass truck. He's drinking hams.
- [33:16]
Joe Anderson
Yes, man.
- [33:18]
Big Al Clopine
Little day drinking on Saturday. Old fashioned. Right. At 8:30 in the morning, start your day right. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your entertaining delivery of an absolute treasure chest of information. Oh, all right, Cool. He's a good writer too.
- [33:33]
Joe Anderson
Yep.
- [33:34]
Andi Last
Because it comes with so many compliments.
- [33:37]
Joe Anderson
And you can read it.
- [33:38]
Big Al Clopine
I can't.
- [33:39]
Joe Anderson
It's just rolling off your thing.
- [33:43]
Big Al Clopine
I'm planning to work till age 70 while my wife will work until age 59. We should be able to comfortably retire at two thirds or less of our current income since we will have our mortgage paid off in six years and will no longer be contributing such a high percentage of our income into the retirement investments once we are no longer working. We also plan on selling our home downstream, sizing considerably once all the kids are off to college and beyond. The kids will be off the household payroll by then. All right. By. All right. Well, by the time he retires at 70. Okay. I was late to the game getting started on my investment portfolio and I'm trying to play a little catch up. Our household income is just over $300,000 and we're investing $150,000 a year. Jesus.
- [34:28]
Joe Anderson
Another one back to back.
- [34:32]
Big Al Clopine
Maxing out our Roth 401 plans at work. $31,000 for me because I'm old and 235 for my wife. Plus our corporate match of 4%. We are putting the rest in the brokerage account. We have 529 accounts for each of our children already funded to the level that we should cover the cost of college. We're debt free aside from our house which is valued at a million dollars and have $400,000 left on the mortgage at 2% interest. And I am in no rush to accelerate those payments. All right. We have about $100,000 in emergency fund held in a high interest savings account that's paying 4.35%. I own my dental practice outright and be selling it as a near retirement. But we are not figuring that sale price into our calculation. I'll have Social Security around $60,000 starting at age 70. Between our Roth 401s and our brokerage account, we have just over $500,000 currently invested. 80% of our portfolios and concentrating in six ETFs. The remaining 20% is split between 10% Bitcoin and 10% individual stocks. Okay. Current breakdown of holdings by percentage of the portfolio. So we got. All right, that's kind of 1, 2.
- [35:43]
Joe Anderson
3, 4, 5, 6 different positions.
- [35:46]
Big Al Clopine
Yep.
- [35:47]
Joe Anderson
Okay, so he's biggest one is S&P 500 ETF.
- [35:52]
Big Al Clopine
He's got the triple Q's and some. Alright, do you think that our savings pace is significant rate to hit our goal by retirement? Would you consider rebalancing these ETFs, adding a different ETF or dropping any of the ETFs. Thanks so much for your insight in your awesome podcast. Okay, let's do some math here. He's saving $150,000 a year. He has $500,000 currently.
- [36:19]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I already did the math. So I did 14 years at 6% with those numbers you just gave me. Ends up with 4.3 million.
- [36:27]
Big Al Clopine
Yep.
- [36:28]
Joe Anderson
So I just. Because I don't know what he's spending right now. I just took 4% of that. I got.
- [36:33]
Big Al Clopine
Let's say he makes 300,000. He's saving 150. That gives 150. It's 100, 125.
- [36:39]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. So. But I work. I did it this way. I said, well, what could you spend at 74% of 4.3 million is 172. His Social Security at 2% would be 80,000. So 250,000. Now, that was future dollars. If I take that back to current dollars at a 3% inflation rate, I get $165,000. I think you're right. I think he's spending about $125,000. So this looks very good. Very good.
- [37:09]
Big Al Clopine
Yep.
- [37:12]
Joe Anderson
That's not including the dental practice or, you know, wife, Social Security. So anyway, yeah, I think.
- [37:21]
Big Al Clopine
I don't know. Would you consider rebalancing the etf? Sure. There's a little bit of overlap here. We don't really want to get into specific recommendations in regards to. But it's All Vanguard Fund for the most part.
- [37:38]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, mostly. And I don't know these funds by name. I mean, except for Voo, that's the S&P 500. You want to make sure you have some international BGT.
- [37:49]
Big Al Clopine
Okay, he's got that.
- [37:50]
Joe Anderson
Maybe that's what Garp is. I don't know.
- [37:52]
Big Al Clopine
What's garp? Garp. I don't know what that is.
- [37:55]
Joe Anderson
I don't either.
- [37:56]
Andi Last
One moment, please.
- [37:57]
Big Al Clopine
Okay.
- [38:01]
Andi Last
IShares MSCI USA Quality GARP ETF.
- [38:06]
Big Al Clopine
Okay.
- [38:07]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [38:07]
Big Al Clopine
You're fine?
- [38:08]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. So that's some international. Okay.
- [38:12]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, I like the allocation. Just keep rebalancing as you are. Basically, a really good allocation, I think, for Kristen, because he's saving a bunch of money. He's got 16 years. I would probably have 80% and the market 20% in bonds. And I would slowly, over the next 16 years, kind of get that allocation to probably 60% stocks, 40% bonds.
- [38:39]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe. Maybe up to a third international, two thirds domestic, or whatever you're comfortable with.
- [38:45]
Big Al Clopine
Yep. Right. And then if you want to play with the different ETFs, I like having multiple funds so that you can rebalance. I do, too, because, I mean, if you take a look right now, I mean, I guess date stamp this. What are. We're at the end of March. This probably won't air till April, but look at how much International has outperformed us, especially on the small value side of that. That has been underperforming forever for more than a decade. And so you Want to have a little bit in each. Diversification will always work. It's just painful as you're going through it because there's going to be a period of time where it doesn't necessarily work. And then all of a sudden it works. And then you'd look back at the 10 years, at the differentials, and it's like, oh, wow, it actually does work. But you have to be disciplined in the overall strategy. I think rebalancing, not timing markets. Keep it fully invested, keep plugging away. Keep saving what you're saving and keep having fun, man. That's. That's what I would do.
- [39:49]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, it's looking good.
- [39:51]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah. I got to. I got to plan a trip out to Montana. I'm going to have some ham.
- [39:56]
Joe Anderson
Ham.
- [39:57]
Big Al Clopine
And then. Yeah, maybe a little old fashioned with Christian and Tiffany. Bring the wife and kids out.
- [40:03]
Joe Anderson
Oh, I think so.
- [40:04]
Big Al Clopine
Wow.
- [40:04]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. You'll have a lot in common.
- [40:06]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, the kids could.
- [40:07]
Joe Anderson
What do you think of the 10% Bitcoin?
- [40:09]
Big Al Clopine
I don't care. I don't like 10%. I probably like 2%.
- [40:12]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, I would probably turn that down too, but I, I don't mind some.
- [40:15]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, 10 Bitcoin. 10 in international stocks. I don't know. I would not put any. Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to tell them to do anything in regards to the investment because if I tell them it's going to triple. He's like, you're a jackass. You're not coming to Montana.
- [40:29]
Joe Anderson
He'll sell out and then it'll double.
- [40:31]
Big Al Clopine
I mean. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't know. If I like 10%. Okay, I'll go five and then it triples. And it's like, you know what? I could have had all of this money.
- [40:38]
Joe Anderson
I should have done 25% if I just knew it.
- [40:41]
Big Al Clopine
Listened to the stupid show.
- [40:44]
Andi Last
There are so many risks that can break your retirement plans. What if you outlive your savings or spend too much? What if health care costs go sky high? What if you retire in a day down market? This week, watch a brand new episode of youf Money, you, Wealth. Tv. Joe and Big Al show you how to make it in retirement, not break it. Then calculate your likelihood of retirement success with a financial blueprint. Click or tap the financial blueprint link in the episode description. Input your details and our free tool will analyze your current cash flow, your assets, and your projected retirement spending. It'll output a detailed report with three scenarios that'll help you determine your probability of retirement success, including future Taxes and actionable steps you can take now to achieve your financial goals. Click or tap the links in the episode description to watch YMYW TV and to get your financial blueprint. If you've got money questions or want your own retirement spitball, click or tap ask Joe and Big Al in the episode description and send us an email or a voice message like this one.
- [41:45]
Frank
Hello, Joe. Hello Big Al and Andy. This is Frank from Lake Wobegon. It's been a couple of years since I called in. I had a question a few years ago, so I think it's a time I've got a specific question about the teaching profession and savings. My car is I upgraded from a 2010 Ford Ranger to a 2022 Ford Maverick. If you know anything about Mavericks, it's quite the upgrade. My drink of choice is Nordeast. That has to do with being from Minnesota and Joe can probably relate to that. Our pets are all on their last legs as we're getting into our 60s, but we've got a cat and we've got a Maltese we named Thor. He weighs all of £12 and I got to name him. So my question is, and this, you might have to do a little math pre on this, but you know, my wife has been taking her salary over 12 months. You know, even though teachers don't work in the summertime, I would say that in my experience most teachers take their salary over 12 months. So they have that regular check in June, July and August. Well, now that I've retired and having time to think too much about finances, I am suggesting, and she's on board with this, that we take her check over the nine months that she's actually working January through May and then September through December. Because when we move to just nine months of checks, we're going to definitely get, you know, a little nice little chunk bigger every month. And what we don't spend, we're going to move that over to our Fidelity Brokerages account and make sure we're getting at least 4%. So we're going to make a couple hundred bucks free just by doing this little change. And in my mind, teachers who take their pay over 12 months are actually giving their school district an interest free loan. So I'd like your thoughts on that and I appreciate your shows. I binged them all and now that I'm retired, when I'm out riding my bike on the trail, I listen every week. So take care and keep up the good work.
- [43:49]
Big Al Clopine
All right, Frank.
- [43:50]
Joe Anderson
Okay. You know, when Robbie was a teacher, he took it over 12 months.
- [43:54]
Big Al Clopine
Most teachers do.
- [43:55]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [43:56]
Big Al Clopine
If I was a teacher, would you? I think so.
- [43:59]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, me too.
- [43:59]
Big Al Clopine
I mean, I would probably go.
- [44:01]
Joe Anderson
You know, the problem is you say that and what Frank said is true. You could make some extra money, but then you have to have the discipline not to overspend. And that's. And teachers are usually pretty good at that. But nevertheless, if the money's in the account, it can be a little tricky.
- [44:17]
Big Al Clopine
Well, I think it's the same as when people get refunds on their taxes because they're withholding too much and then, oh, this is my vacation fund. Or, hey, we're going to go travel with this. I like to get that big check at the end of the year. It's the same kind of concept. It's like it's a forced savings for them. Yeah, but you're giving the IRS an interest free loan as well, so. No, I think Frank's math is dead on. If you have. Well, now he's retired. Right. I think it's a little bit different because they have to get used to figuring out those months to create their own paycheck. I think it would be really good practice.
- [44:55]
Joe Anderson
Right. Although when I retire someday, I actually would like the steadiness. I think that would be cool.
- [45:04]
Big Al Clopine
The steadiness of a guaranteed paycheck.
- [45:06]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. Whatever form that is. Social Security, pension, rental property. I think I would like the fact that it's consistent or semi consistent month in, month out.
- [45:16]
Big Al Clopine
I think everyone wants that.
- [45:17]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [45:18]
Big Al Clopine
That's why we have jobs.
- [45:20]
Joe Anderson
Right. That's why I'm still working.
- [45:22]
Big Al Clopine
Because you don't want to give up.
- [45:24]
Joe Anderson
That paycheck at this advanced stage.
- [45:26]
Big Al Clopine
Got it. All right, thanks, Frank. All right, we got John. Feel the withdrawal rate. Suggestions are very low on show.
- [45:38]
Andi Last
This is from Twitter. He actually posted. Sorry, X. He actually posted this on X. And he also left us an Apple podcasts review saying the same thing.
- [45:46]
Big Al Clopine
Okay.
- [45:47]
Joe Anderson
Okay.
- [45:47]
Big Al Clopine
The creator of the 4% withdrawal rate says it was too low, even for him. What? Bill Bangin. He's talking to Billy.
- [45:56]
Andi Last
I did some research and yeah, apparently Bill has revised and said you can take 4.7% now.
- [46:01]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, but that was.
- [46:03]
Joe Anderson
No, that was 2021. He just did that. I know he did, but others have said 3%. Wade Pfau says 5%. It's all over the place.
- [46:11]
Big Al Clopine
I think WADE Paul says 3%.
- [46:13]
Joe Anderson
Well, did you do some research? Well, at one point it was 5.2. I remember that because I don't remember the reason why. But at any rate, I guess the Real answer is we use 4% because it seems like a conservative rate. Could you use higher? Sure, possibly. But you're safer with a 4%. Should you use lower? Well, if you retire early, maybe you should use lower just because it's a number of years. Right. So it just, it's just as we say many times, it's a guideline. It's not really gospel. It's a guideline.
- [46:47]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah. He says a 65, 35 portfolio was successful 98% of the time over a 30 year with a 5.9% upper withdrawal rate.
- [46:59]
Joe Anderson
Got it, Cam.
- [47:01]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah. Well, I don't know. You can data mine a lot of different years, too. If you take a look at expected returns today giving bonds in stocks, what's, what's the assumptions that you're going to run on what stocks are going to do and what bonds are going to do and what cash is going to do.
- [47:22]
Joe Anderson
You look at the last 15 years, you would call that an incredible bull run. Will that continue the next 15? Hard to say. But the law of averages, we're probably not going to have the same 15 years from now that we did the past 15 years.
- [47:38]
Big Al Clopine
Right. It's a game of what you think that, that expected returns are going to be in the overall market. And so, yeah, you're right. I think there's a time period that you could probably take a withdrawal rate of 7% and it worked out just fine and you still had millions of dollars left over. I think what we're trying to do and talk about on the show is that, all right, this is a gauge to see how much money that you need in a pile of cash before you retire. Because I know a lot of our listeners are sophisticated, but some, they don't understand that. All right, if you have $100,000, you probably can't pull out $10,000 a year from that and have it last your entire retirement. And then they're like, well, you can probably only pull out 4%. Well, could they pull out $6,000? Yeah, maybe. But I think the point is that you probably want to be a little bit more conservative as you're planning, because life happens and things kind of come into the way all the time. And if you plan conservatively, I mean, you got a little safety net.
- [48:43]
Joe Anderson
Yeah. You got a little cushion.
- [48:44]
Big Al Clopine
Little cushion, yep. Cushion is key. All right, well, that's it for us today, folks. Really appreciate all the questions, all the nice literature.
- [48:56]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [48:57]
Big Al Clopine
From the mailman.
- [48:58]
Joe Anderson
I'm the mailman, you know, and your reading skills have been phenomenal.
- [49:02]
Big Al Clopine
Lately. I know. Well, a couple weeks ago, Andy thought I stroked out.
- [49:05]
Joe Anderson
Right.
- [49:05]
Big Al Clopine
She had a man.
- [49:07]
Andi Last
That's made an impact, apparently.
- [49:09]
Joe Anderson
Well, when someone in the middle of show pauses and said, joe, are you all right?
- [49:13]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah. She had a cold timeout, a little spritzer, had a little glass of water.
- [49:20]
Joe Anderson
No, but you. You recovered somehow?
- [49:22]
Big Al Clopine
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, just had a little bit of a headache.
- [49:26]
Joe Anderson
Yeah, right.
- [49:27]
Big Al Clopine
I feel good today.
- [49:28]
Joe Anderson
Yeah.
- [49:29]
Big Al Clopine
All right. Thank you all. Andy, wonderful job again. Aaron, thank you so much for all you do. You just sit there.
- [49:37]
Joe Anderson
I think he's got some buttons he's pushing. I'm not really sure.
- [49:40]
Big Al Clopine
All right, we'll see you next week.
- [49:44]
Joe Anderson
Bye. Bye.
- [49:45]
Andi Last
Thanks once again to the American College of Financial Services for making it possible for us to bring you insights from Ed Slott, Jamie Hopkins, Wade Pfau, Michael Michael Finka, and Jeff Levine. Over the past several weeks, I'm posting more interviews with thought leaders from the American College exclusively on the youe Money, you, Wealth YouTube channel. So hit the link in the episode description and make sure you're subscribed. You'll learn more from these financial brainiacs and you'll get the latest from Joe and Big Al each and every week. Your Money, you, Wealth is presented by Pure Financial Advisors. If you're worried about outliving your savings or wondering if you're on track for retirement, schedule a free financial assessment from Pure Financial Advisors. Our experienced professionals will go beyond a simple spitball to analyze your income, expenses, assets and debts and help you develop a clear roadmap for retirement, fully aligned with your needs, your goals and your risk tolerance. Click or tap the free assessment link in the episode description or call 888-994-6257 to book a meeting either in person or online. The choice is yours. Pure Financial Advisors is a registered investment advisor. This show does not intend to provide personalized investment advice through this podcast and does not represent that the securities or services discussed are suitable for any investor. As rules and regulations change, podcast content may become outdated. Investors are advised not to rely on any information contained in the podcast in the process of making a full and informed investment decision.