UGMA, 529, HSA, RMD, and Inherited IRA Tax Bombs Defused - 557

Summary

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Your Money, Your Wealth Episode 557 Summary

Episode Title: UGMA, 529, HSA, RMD, and Inherited IRA Tax Bombs Defused
Hosts: Joe Anderson, CFP® & Alan "Big Al" Clopine, CPA
Release Date: November 25, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives into "financial tax time bombs," breaking down the tax implications and strategic decisions around UGMA accounts, 529 plans (including the new rollover-to-Roth rules), HSAs, required minimum distributions (RMDs), and inherited IRAs. Through listener questions—paired with their signature humor—Joe and Big Al offer pragmatic advice on minimizing taxes, maximizing contributions, and steering clear of common online financial advice pitfalls.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Minimizing Taxes with Large UGMA Accounts

[02:10 – 06:24] Listener: George in Torrance, CA

• Situation: Three children each have a $275,000 UGMA, set up by grandparents, to be used post-high school for education, investments, or real estate.
• Tax Mechanics:
  • UGMA account investment earnings are subject to "kiddie tax":
    • First $1,300: tax-free
    • Next $1,300: child’s tax rate (10%)
    • Income above $2,600: parents’ tax rate
    • Applies up to age 18 (or 23 if full-time student)
• Advice:
  • Invest in tax-efficient, growth-oriented ETFs to minimize taxable distributions (avoid bonds/CDs that generate income).
  • Quote: "Sometimes people are like, is there kind of a secret back door to get the money out? Yeah, not really." (Joe, 05:34)
  • Know the cost basis in the account to plan for capital gains taxation.
  • Funds can be used for anything (not restricted like 529 plans), but be cautious as the child gets full control at age 18.
• Memorable Moment: Both hosts remark on the rarity of such large UGMAs, with Joe noting, “The largest UGMA I’ve seen in 25 years is maybe $15,000…” (Joe, 04:31)

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2. 529-to-Roth IRA Rollovers: When to Stop?

[06:24 – 13:37] Listener: Suzanne in Detroit

• Situation: Overfunded 529 for daughter (commuter student); did first 529-to-Roth IRA rollover; now daughter is pursuing an advanced degree costing $120,000 over 3 years, and there’s $60,000 left in the 529.
• New Rule Recap: Up to $35,000 can be rolled from 529 to Roth IRA (in $7,000/year increments), but:
  • 529 must exist for 15 years
  • No rollovers of contributions (or earnings) from last 5 years
• Host Guidance:
  • Pause rollovers and use 529 funds for upcoming education costs to minimize student loan borrowing.
  • If sufficient income, keep making Roth IRA contributions with new cash flow.
  • Quote: "Stop the rollovers, pay for education so you borrow less." (Big Al, 12:03)
• 529 Investment Allocation: Move to less risky assets since funds will be needed within 3 years.
• Memorable Moment:
  • The hosts get sidetracked (with Andi) on the difference between midwives, doulas, and anesthetists.
  • "This was way TMI on birthing a baby." (Andi, 08:48)

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3. Maxing Out 529 Plans and Early Retirement Spitball

[14:46 – 23:55] Listener: "Homer and Marge" in Northern California

• Situation:
  • Mid-40s couple, $2.5M in retirement (401ks/IRAs), $105k (Bart) and $180k (Lisa) in 529s, $650k income, $20k/month spending, $730k mortgage, aim to retire early.
• Host Analysis:
  • Question skepticism: Joe doubts the math—suspects actual spending is higher than reported.
    • "There's no way they're saving everything else signaled by discrepancy in reported assets." (Joe, 19:09)
  • Based on stated savings alone, early retirement looks feasible; at $650k income, continued savings will “catapult” the couple’s net worth.
• Advice:
  • Adjust projections for possible underreported living expenses (“lifestyle creep”).
  • Confirm you’re saving as much as you think by tracking cash flow closely.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Extended banter about beer preferences and the longevity of “The Simpsons.”
  • "[Bart's] not going to go to Harvard, and Lisa will probably get a scholarship." (Joe, 16:21)

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4. Inherited IRA Withdrawal Strategies and “Tax Bomb” Avoidance

[24:05 – 30:15] Listener: Bill in Chicago

• Situation: Inherited $950k IRA from father-in-law; must empty in 6 years under SECURE Act; wants to minimize taxes.
• RMD Rules and Misconceptions:
  • Clarification depends on age at decedent’s death and start of RMDs.
  • Taking only minimums can result in a large lump taxable at higher brackets in year 10.
• Host Recommendation:
  • Withdraw enough each year to “max out the 24% tax bracket” rather than waiting and risking 32%+ in final years.
  • Max 24% for married couples: ~$400k taxable income, plus $30k standard deduction (2025 figures).
  • "If you don't do this, you do $35k per year...you're going to be paying 32%, 35%, 37% plus state tax. You don't want to do that." (Big Al, 27:18)
• Investment/Asset Mix:
  • Dismiss online “advice” not to hold stocks in inherited IRAs—irrational for most situations.
  • Take distributions as cash or in-kind (journal shares) into brokerage account.
  • "I'm not sure what online pundits are telling you not to invest in stocks or mutual funds inside an inherited IRA." (Joe, 28:35)

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5. HSAs – To Max or Not to Max

[31:19 – 33:06] Listener: Aaron in Cincinnati

• Situation: Considering whether to always max an HSA, and its uses after age 65.
• Analysis:
  • HSA contributions are tax deductible;
  • Withdrawals for qualified medical expenses are tax-free at any age.
  • After age 65: Withdrawals for any purpose are penalty-free but taxable (like IRA).
  • Quote: "Best of all worlds right now...no reason not to max this out. It’s a good deal." (Big Al, 32:55)
• Strategy:
  • Treat HSA as a “stealth IRA” for future medical, or as an extra pre-tax savings bucket.

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6. RMD Age Confusion & HSA Contribution Limits near Medicare

[33:06 – 38:07] Listener: Carl in Western Maryland

• Question 1: When do RMDs start for someone born in 1959?
  • Answer: Age 73 (if born before 1960), but technically first RMD can be delayed to April 1 the following year (results in 2 RMDs in one year).
  • "So if you were born in 1951-1959, your RMD age is 73. If born in 1960 or later, it’s 75." (Big Al, 33:53)
• Question 2: Why must HSA contributions stop 6 months before Medicare, and how does spousal coverage affect this?
  • If you enroll in Medicare after 65, coverage is retroactive for up to 6 months; must avoid an excess HSA contribution.
  • If you (or spouse) are still working with coverage, you can delay both.
  • Quote: "Just make your best guess and then readjust later if you need to. No penalty if you pull the extra out before tax filing date." (Big Al, 37:06)
  • Medicare Part A: Best signed up for at 65 unless on employer plan; late sign-up penalties apply for B (10% premium hike for each missed year).

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7. RMD “Kaboom” at Age 73 with Large IRAs

[38:07 – 39:31] Listener: Mark

• Situation: Age 73, $4 million in traditional IRAs, worried about large RMDs and taxes.
• Host Guidance:
  • Best strategy: Roth conversions before RMD age (now too late for the portion represented by RMDs, but can still do conversions above RMD).
  • Qualified charitable distribution (QCD): Can send up to $100k/year RMD directly to charity to avoid taxable income (if charitably inclined).
  • If working, might delay 401(k) RMDs past 73 if plan allows.
  • "Smartest thing would've been to do Roth conversions before you turn age 73." (Big Al, 38:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Is there kind of a secret back door to get [UGMA] money out? Yeah, not really.” (Joe, 05:34)
• "There's no reason not to sign up [for Medicare Part A]." (Joe, 37:53)
• "If you don't do this, you do $35,000 per year...you're going to be paying 32%, 35%, 37% plus state tax. You don't want to do that." (Big Al, 27:18)
• Hosts’ playful banter about IPA headaches, The Simpsons' clairvoyance, and childbirth roles (midwife/doula/anesthetist) adds a light-hearted touch.

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Timestamps for Key Questions & Segments

| Topic/Listener | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |----------------------------------------------------------|------------------------| | UGMA Account Tax Efficiency (George) | 02:10 – 06:24 | | 529-to-Roth and Advanced Degree Dilemma (Suzanne) | 06:24 – 13:37 | | Loaded 529s & Early Retirement (Homer & Marge) | 14:46 – 23:55 | | Inherited IRA Withdrawal Sequence (Bill) | 24:05 – 30:15 | | Should You Always Max the HSA? (Aaron) | 31:19 – 33:06 | | RMD Start Ages & HSA/Medicare Overlap (Carl) | 33:06 – 38:07 | | $4 Million IRA RMD Tax Strategies (Mark) | 38:07 – 39:31 |

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Final Thoughts

The hosts stress that financial decisions should be driven by a precise understanding of tax rules, timelines, and individual goals—with an emphasis on early planning for Roth conversions and tax diversification. They also warn listeners to be wary of viral “finfluencer” advice and to consult credentialed professionals for complex scenarios.

Humor, transparency, and real-life money spitballs—this is classic YMYW.

Transcript

[Andi Last]

Joe and Big Al are diffusing some confusing tax time bombs today on youn Money, you, wealth podcast number 557, George and Torrance wants to know the smartest way to deal with the giant UGMA account set up by his kid's grandparents. Suzanne in Detroit has a twist on the new 529 plan to Roth rollover rule. Homer and Marge need a spitball on whether they can build huge 529 plans for college savings and still retire early. Plus, Bill in Chicago just inherited a 950k IRA and needs a withdrawal plan before he triggers triggers a tax explosion. Aaron in Cincinnati wonders whether maxing out his health savings account every year as part of his overall pre tax contributions is a good idea. Carl in Western Maryland has questions about the required minimum distribution age and HSA rules and wonders whether those that make the tax code are on drugs. And finally, Mark wants to know how to avoid the tax kaboom from the $4 million sitting in his traditional IRAs at age 73. I'm executive producer Andi Last, and here are the hosts of youf Money, you, Wealth, Joe Anderson, cfp, and Big Al Clopine, cpa.

[Joe Anderson]

It's been a hot minute since we've all gotten together.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes, I think you're right. That's an east coast term, I think. Hot minute.

[Joe Anderson]

Really?

[Big Al Clopine]

I'd never heard that until someone from the east coast told me that I.

[Joe Anderson]

Was just in the East Coast.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, there you go. Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, let's get right to it. We got George from Terrence, California, writes in, he goes, hey, my kids grandparents. Okay, well why doesn't he just say.

[Andi Last]

My parents might be his wife's parents?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, yeah, well, I'm never.

[Joe Anderson]

Who says that? My kids grandparents.

[Big Al Clopine]

Then you have to really do some math here. Let's see, what does that mean?

[Joe Anderson]

Set up an UGMA account for our three kids for the purpose of education. And the amounts currently around $275,000 each. Great problem to have.

[Big Al Clopine]

Wow.

[Joe Anderson]

The plan is to use it for whatever purpose they need to help them after high school, such as college education, investments or real estate. My question is, how do I minimize the tax implication as it comes out? UGMA Unified Gift to Minors Act.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes. And Joe, it's an account that's set up for the kid.

[Joe Anderson]

For a minor.

[Big Al Clopine]

For a minor. Yeah, the parents are still on it. They have to. Once they hit age 18, then they can spend it. But in the meantime, it's an account that it gets taxed on the kids return and it's under something called a kiddie tax. And the way that that works is the first $1300 of income is tax free. The second $1300 of income is taxed at the child's rate, which is typically 10%. And then anything over $2,600 of income is taxed at the parent's rate. That goes on through age 18, 19 to 23. If you're a full time student, then you still are subject to the kiddie tax. Which means if it's a lot of income, $275,000 will probably be a lot of income, I'm guessing.

[Joe Anderson]

Well, what's the basis?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, the basis. Yeah, we don't know. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Assuming that is it capital gains, is it interest, what's kicking out of it as well? What's it invested in?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I guess the point is right off the bat to be, to minimize. Well, just first off, you have to understand taxes. It's taxed at the kids rate for a little bit of income and at the parent's rate. Once you know that, how do you keep it tax effic? You invest in like tax efficient ETFs that are more growth oriented as opposed to bonds or CDs or something that kicks off a lot of income.

[Joe Anderson]

If the grandparents set it up, is it still taxed at the parent's rate or would it be taxed at the grandparents rate?

[Big Al Clopine]

Parents rate still still doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. And if there's capital gains then, and there's an opportunity to tax less harvest for the kids, that could be another way to save some taxes. But I think the most important thing is to try to be tax efficient with the investments. Probably.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. I think, George, what you need to figure out is what's the cost basis and what I mean by that. How much money was totally invested in the UGMA accounts? Because it's worth 275,000 today. Did they put $75,000 into the account? It grew to 275. So now you have $200,000 of capital gain.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right.

[Joe Anderson]

Or did you reinvest the dividends on an ongoing basis? In the dividend, you know, in your basis is maybe some close to 200.

[Big Al Clopine]

Or was it all cash and then it was invested? Yeah, we don't know.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, it could be all cash and never invested.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Right.

[Joe Anderson]

So just think of it as your own investment in a sense. I mean, there's some nuances in the tax, but it's, it's pretty small. This is a Pretty large number. $275,000. Ugma account. I think the largest UGMA account that I've seen in 25 years is probably 15,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, I was going to say 20, but not 270. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Not 275,000. So, yeah, you're right. It's a good problem to have. But until they reach age of majority, it's going to be taxed at this kitty rate, which is $1,600 of interest tax free. $1,300. But, yeah, there's no secret weapon here. There's no trust that you can put it in or there's no.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think the main comment is it's a good problem to have. And that's true.

[Joe Anderson]

Right. It's just understanding what is it invested in on an ongoing basis. Can you reduce the interest kicking out or the dividends? Or you just want to be tax smart from an investment perspective, but because it's in an ugma, I mean, sometimes people are like, oh, is there kind of a secret back door to get the money out?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, not really.

[Joe Anderson]

Nope.

[Andi Last]

So now in his email, he says he's thinking about being able to use it for investments or real estate. Is that an option with an agma?

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Well, you could take it out and let's say, buy the kids their first home.

[Andi Last]

Got it.

[Joe Anderson]

Like a down payment or. Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's not like a 529 plan where it's only education. This can be used for anything. And once the kid hits 18, it's their money. They can spend it on anything. Which is why a lot of financial planners, us included, tell you to be careful with this, because sometimes kids at age 18, they're not quite responsible enough yet. Sometimes they are.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. And if you wanted to save for minors, you know, can't necessarily open up a brokerage account for like a five year old.

[Big Al Clopine]

Right. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Right. It has to be in some sort of custodial account.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, let's go to Detroit. The Rock. Hi, Joe. Al. I'll throw in your name, Andy.

[Andi Last]

Thank you.

[Joe Anderson]

My daughter is an rn.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right.

[Joe Anderson]

My sister's an rn.

[Big Al Clopine]

Wow.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. We assumed she would go away to college, but commuted instead, and that resulted in us overfunding her 529 plan. This year, we did the first rollover of a portion of the 529 plan to her Roth IRA, leaving a balance of around $60,000 in the Schwab 529 account. She has now decided to go for an advanced degree in midwifery Must be a midwife.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think so. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

It's a midwife deal again.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, they help.

[Andi Last]

Don't they help? Yeah, they help birth, baby, childbirth.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. Is that like a memestitis?

[Big Al Clopine]

No, the midwife helps the whole process of the birthing process. Are you thinking about an anesthesiologist if I said that right?

[Joe Anderson]

No, anesthetist.

[Andi Last]

Anesthetist is the person who actually puts you under when you're having a procedure done. So that's a person.

[Joe Anderson]

Well, what's an anesthesiologist?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, that's what I thought you were trying to say.

[Andi Last]

I think they're the same thing. I think an anesthesiologist and an anesthetist are the same thing, and both of them are working at the head end to knock you out. The midwife is working, I think, on the other end to help the baby.

[Joe Anderson]

So what's the doctor or the medical profession that's also has to deal with childbirth?

[Andi Last]

Well, the obstetrician.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Andi Last]

No actual doctor.

[Joe Anderson]

Another term. Well, it's got to be another person in there.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, ob gyn.

[Joe Anderson]

Is that. Not that one either.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, well, that's the doctor, but the midwife is the one that's actually stand staying with you, making sure the doctor just the whole time. Yeah, it goes in and out.

[Joe Anderson]

I was there for my son's birth.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

There was no one there the whole time besides me.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, well, you didn't get a midwife then.

[Joe Anderson]

That's not so.

[Andi Last]

Midwife job description includes providing care for women and their babies during pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum period. Responsibilities range from antenatal checkups and education to monitoring during labor, delivering babies, and offering postnatal support like help with breastfeeding, et cetera.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right, well, the midwife we had was only the birthing process. That was it.

[Joe Anderson]

Got it.

[Andi Last]

You had a doula.

[Big Al Clopine]

Is that what it's a doula?

[Andi Last]

I believe that's the actual name of the person that helps with the actual birthing process.

[Big Al Clopine]

Got it. Okay.

[Andi Last]

Wow. This was way TMI on birthing a baby.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'm so glad.

[Joe Anderson]

I still think there's something else. There's something else. Anesthetist. I don't know.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think Andy's right.

[Joe Anderson]

I am? Yeah. All right. The cost of which is estimated to be $120,000. That will take three years to complete. The current 529 plans is $60,000. Would likely get her halfway home. My question for you is whether it makes sense to keep doing the Max Roth rollovers each year from a 529 to potentially borrow more or stop the Roth rollovers completely. So she borrow, borrows less.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, boy.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, it's gonna be a long day.

[Big Al Clopine]

You're thinking about midwives.

[Joe Anderson]

I know, I know. For. For background, she's 25 and currently has a Roth of about $90,000 that she has funded herself, with the exception of the previously mentioned rollover. Also, what is your recommendation for where the 529 plan should be invested now that it'll be used for the next few years? We both enjoy a nice glass of wine once in a while. Red for me, white for her. Thanks for all you do. We've learned a lot, Suzanne. All right, a couple things. So let's talk about the Roth rollover rules for the 529 plan.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. So it's relatively new rule. So it states this that if you've got too much Money In a 529 plan, you graduated from college and you got extra in there. The IRS allows you to roll up to $35,000 from a 529 plan and into Roth IRA slowly.

[Joe Anderson]

Like, it's like a normal contribution per year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, it's 7,000 a year. Or if you're over 50, it's 8,000 a year. Yeah. So that's what you can roll up to a max of 35,000. But there's a few caveats. First of all, the 529 plan needs to have been in existence for 15 years. And you can't roll over any contributions that have been made in the last five years. So anyway, so it can be done. So that's what the. She's talking about.

[Joe Anderson]

What, the RO to be in existence for 15 years, or it needs 15 years for the tax free treatment?

[Big Al Clopine]

No, no, the 529 plan needs to be in existence for 15 years. And the contributions to the 529 plan need to have been done five years or longer.

[Joe Anderson]

Got it. Okay. Because the student's only 25. The midwife.

[Big Al Clopine]

True.

[Joe Anderson]

She's 25.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

So they must have started the 529 plan 15 years ago. So last year, since she stopped working, she's an RN, right? It was like, hey, your $7,000, instead of making a contribution out of cash flow, we could just take it from the 529 plan. As long as she qualifies from an income perspective, she could put the money into a 529 plan, 7,000, or into the Roth IRA and let it grow tax free, just like a Normal contribution. Right. But now the question is, hey, she's going back to school. She needs to use the 529 plan. Should she continue to take money from the 529 plan to fund the Roth, or use the 529 plan for college tuition?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, use the 529 for college tuition. That's what it's for.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. Depending upon the roth if you can. With cash flow.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, with cash flow. But that's what the 529 is for. It's for college education. So stop the rollovers. Pay for education so you borrow less. You'd rather borrow less when it comes to college. So that's the whole point of the 529 plan. So you can borrow less. So, yeah, I would stop that.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, I would stop the rollover, but I would want to continue to make the contributions. Yeah, she could do both. So if she's going to continue to work, have earned income, if she can put, you know, she doesn't have to max the plan out, but if she can continue to contribute into the ROTH each year, because she's only 25, she's got $90,000 in the Roth already.

[Big Al Clopine]

Pretty amazing. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

That's crazy.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

So you. Or if I was the parents, Maybe you gift $8,000 into her Roth IRA for her because. Well, I mean, those dollars will compound nicely.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. You definitely want to keep those going. Yep. For sure.

[Joe Anderson]

All right.

[Andi Last]

And did you answer, is it possible to any money that you've already rolled from the 529 to the Roth?

[Big Al Clopine]

Can you roll it back to 529? No, I don't think so.

[Andi Last]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

One way.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's actually nice that it's in a Roth, but I'd stop it for now.

[Andi Last]

Yep.

[Joe Anderson]

Three years. It's going to cost $120,000. All right. That's a tough one.

[Big Al Clopine]

Good that she already has 60, though.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, she's got $60,000. But you put another, I don't know, $21,000. She still has $40,000 that she has in the 529 plan.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, you're changing your mind.

[Joe Anderson]

I don't know.

[Big Al Clopine]

I wouldn't. I would use the 529 plan for what it was intended for.

[Andi Last]

All right, so stop the presses and get ready to start downloading. After a long absence, the DIY retire is once again this week's special offer. If you are trying to figure out how to build college savings without blowing up your taxes, or when to use the HSA the right way, or how to keep RMDs from lighting up your tax return, this guide is going to feel like someone finally turned the lights on. It is packed with so much practical do it yourself information on retirement planning that we normally only make available in classes or one on one meetings. Stuff like the five steps to plan your retirement income. Starting with how to figure out where you stand today, how to choose a tax efficient distribution method, how to balance your income buckets, how to protect yourself from retirement risks like inflation, market swings, and those tax surprises that we all love so much. There's even a quick retirement calculation worksheet in the back so you can find out if you actually are on track or if you're just hoping for the best. That's on page 44. If you want to skip straight to the truth, click or tap the links in the description of today's episode and claim the DIY retirement guide before the special offer changes sometime this Friday, November 28th.

[Joe Anderson]

Go get it now, Homer in March.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

You know, I saw something about the Simpsons on, I don't know, social media that they had like episodes years ago that told the future.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh really?

[Joe Anderson]

It was like an episode 10 years ago when Donald Trump was president. Yeah, it was like this was aired and it was before he was ever running for president.

[Big Al Clopine]

Wow. So it became true.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. And there was like some other like really weird stuff.

[Big Al Clopine]

So we should start watching to see what happens.

[Joe Anderson]

Fake news or what? I'm not a big social media guy.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

But that caught my attention.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right.

[Joe Anderson]

Are they still on the air?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Oh yeah. 30 years. 40 years.

[Andi Last]

37 seasons. They started in 1989.

[Joe Anderson]

89.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh geez. I got married in 88. So my entire married life I've been watching this.

[Joe Anderson]

So let's get back to Northern California. Joe Big Al would love a little retirement spitball from you guys. My wife Marge and I are Both in our mid-40s. We currently have $2.5 million saved in pre tax retirement accounts, 401 s and IRAs. We have two children, Bart and Lisa, ages 8 and 13.

[Big Al Clopine]

Of course.

[Joe Anderson]

That's so cute.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

We currently have $105,000 in five hundred and twenty nine plans for Bart. For Bart in one hundred and eighty in Lisa's. That's a lot of money in a 529.

[Big Al Clopine]

It sure is.

[Joe Anderson]

A couple hundred thousand. The goal is to have 250 in each by college ages. What school do they want? Bart's not going to go to Harvard.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

And Lisa will probably get a scholarship.

[Big Al Clopine]

You're probably right about that. That Would be a lot of money.

[Joe Anderson]

That's like heavy loaded 529 plans.

[Big Al Clopine]

It sure is. I assume they're expecting out of state. Yeah. Right.

[Joe Anderson]

Neither one of us will have access to pensions in retirement. In between us, we'll get roughly $7,500 a month in Social Security. My wife would like to retire between 50 and 55 and I'll wait until 59 and a half. Our household income will be $650,000 this year. We currently spend $20,000 a month saving the rest. And our only debt is $730,000 still remaining on our mortgage at 2.8% five years into a 10 year ARM. Our home is currently valued at $2.5 million and with a couple of investments that should be paying off over the next few years.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, they anticipate paying it off with those investments.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. So he's got a couple investments that he's not sharing with us here, apparently. Yeah, just little side deals.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, they're going to come through.

[Joe Anderson]

He's going to invest in what? Moe's Bar. Isn't that his name?

[Andi Last]

I think so.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah, Moe's. Yeah, I like Mo.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, we anticipate being able to pay it off by 2030.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

All right. In retirement, we'll ideally like to be able to spend $20,000 a month in today's dollars.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right.

[Joe Anderson]

Been listening to the podcast for several months down. Loving the show. I Drive a 2020 Ram bought, used that I will drive into the ground. My wife drives a 2023 Toyota Highlander that was also bought used that will be driven into the ground. I enjoy beer, lots of it. Sounds like homework. Russian River IPA or a little Sierra Nevada Old Chico Wheat.

[Big Al Clopine]

Old Chico maybe. Maybe the town of Chico. I don't know.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. My wife loves a glass or two of pinot. Looking forward to what you got to say.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

All right. They make $650,000 a year. They say they save.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, they didn't really say how much.

[Joe Anderson]

So they spend $20,000 a month, save everything else.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

240. 640. That's 400 grand. 100 some thousand dollars in tax. That still gives us $300,000 of saving, maybe $250,000 of savings per year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, they're fine. I took.

[Joe Anderson]

Hold on. I'm just going to call BS here.

[Big Al Clopine]

I've got less savings.

[Joe Anderson]

I think there's no way they're saving everything else. They're spending more than 240,000 a year.

[Big Al Clopine]

I agree with that. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Because everything is in the tax deferred account. They have nothing in a brokerage account.

[Big Al Clopine]

Unless they just didn't tell us they.

[Joe Anderson]

Have his little secret in both.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, the ones he's not sharing it.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, because it could be. It's gray. It's a little gray.

[Big Al Clopine]

You know, all we can do is go with what he gave us. And so there's a lot of assumptions in this one. So first of all, he says mid-40s. So I'm going to say 45 years old.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

All right. Then he says I'm saving the rest. Well, it'd be helpful to have a number.

[Joe Anderson]

Sure.

[Big Al Clopine]

But since we don't. I got the income of 640 tax.

[Joe Anderson]

This is not a number. Yeah, we spent about $20,000 a month, 240,000 here. And we're saving the rest. No, he's spending more than $250,000 and he's saving less than that. Or because there's gaps on the balance sheet. Could be the 3 million looks nice in a tax deferred account, but it does if you're saving several hundred thousand dollars a year or more than two. You can't save $200,000 in a 401.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, you'd have a bunch in the taxable. Again, maybe he does, he's just not telling us. But if you go with just his numbers. So I got 640 income taxes, 200. Guess that expenses 240 savings. 200. I just said 150. Let's say 150. All right, so 150, 15 years. If he wants to retire at 62.7 million. Right. Now, that 6% gets to $10 million. Okay, let's just say 4% of that is $400,000.

[Joe Anderson]

$240,000 doubles the cost of that.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's about right. $240,000 at 3%. 15 years is $373,000. So with these numbers, it's. Right. But I have the same concern as you. I think he's spending more than he thinks.

[Joe Anderson]

Well, when you make it $650,000, you.

[Big Al Clopine]

Don'T pay that much.

[Joe Anderson]

You're not paying attention.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's been our experience. Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

How about. Yeah. Oh, gotta take a budget. The guy, that attorney was making $2 million a year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Had nothing.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, nothing.

[Big Al Clopine]

Had this house and a 401k of 500, 000.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, it's like, oh, we don't spend that much.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. We're not lavish.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, no. Yeah, we save everything else.

[Big Al Clopine]

You might need to Sell your home to retire. You don't understand. I'm not selling my home. Oh, I guess you're gonna work for until you're 90. Yeah, right.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah. But that's what happens. It's that style creep again.

[Big Al Clopine]

It does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

That's song.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Joe Anderson]

Because they're creeping. But I don't know. They got the money in the four. I don't know. But I think they're going to be.

[Big Al Clopine]

Just fine based upon these numbers.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, but that 650 is the biggest asset. I think they have you times that.

[Big Al Clopine]

By another 15 years.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. And so, yeah, they have a few million dollars saved in mid-40s. That's great. But at $650,000 of income, he's in the top 1% of all wage earners.

[Big Al Clopine]

Correct.

[Joe Anderson]

That's giant.

[Big Al Clopine]

It's a lot.

[Joe Anderson]

Even 10 years at $6.5 million of cash flow.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot to work with.

[Joe Anderson]

There's a lot to work.

[Big Al Clopine]

There's also a lot to spend.

[Joe Anderson]

Yes. But I think he could still have a very lavish lifestyle. Do the things that he wants to do, drink lots of beer so he into the ground.

[Big Al Clopine]

He can stick with the Russian River IPAs. He didn't have to switch to no.

[Joe Anderson]

Coors or Bud, even though Coors is probably better. Well, you like ranchy water IPAs or the Russian River.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, you haven't tried it.

[Joe Anderson]

What? The Russian river ipa. Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

You don't know.

[Joe Anderson]

I guarantee I would not like it.

[Big Al Clopine]

Maybe it's the one IPA you would like.

[Joe Anderson]

I don't know. I've had Sierra Nevada before.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yes.

[Joe Anderson]

And it was.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, you didn't like it.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, I didn't like it.

[Big Al Clopine]

I know. You haven't found a single IPA that you like.

[Joe Anderson]

Headache?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. For me it's usually the next morning.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, but Three Course light. I don't have two of them.

[Big Al Clopine]

No, I know.

[Joe Anderson]

You know what I'm saying?

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, here's. Here's what I've learned over my many years. So I'll have a hazy ipa, one, but then I'll switch to Coors or dose Equis or something like that. And then I'm Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

But if I. If I have. I have three or four. Like, remember that Marzon?

[Joe Anderson]

That was awful.

[Big Al Clopine]

I took the day off.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

Didn't we have a radio show?

[Joe Anderson]

Some live broadcast.

[Big Al Clopine]

Exactly.

[Joe Anderson]

Big Al is out of pocket.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Mars on Hangover.

[Big Al Clopine]

I. I sort of forget what we had that day. I do remember the day you showed up at the radio station.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

And said, al, you're gonna have to talk more today because I may not be able to. And you. You had a trash can right next to you just in case.

[Joe Anderson]

I think it was like almost 20 years ago.

[Big Al Clopine]

It was 20 years ago.

[Joe Anderson]

Yeah, it was. Hi. This is an open air question for Joe and Big Al.

[Andi Last]

Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

An open air question.

[Andi Last]

Okay.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, we've got an open mic, so we'll do it.

[Joe Anderson]

I'm Bill from Chicago. My wife and I are in our mid-50s. I drive a Honda CRV. Wife drives a Toyota Highlander. Drink of choices, Diet Coke and Rub. Wife likes an occasional glass of red wine. We recently inherited an IRA following the passing of her father. He passed away four years ago. This year we have to start taking our minimum distributions and have to deplete the account entirely in six years. There's about $950,000 in the account. According to the online calculators for inherited IRAs, my minimum withdrawal this year is approximately 35,000. That seems low. We want to empty the account in six years. We are barely in the 24% income tax bracket. How much should we take out every year to avoid the massive tax bill in the last year, should we limit our withdrawals to the amount that keeps us in the 24% tax bracket? The inherited IRA is a mix of stocks, bonds, mutual funds. But does it make sense to sell the stocks in the inherited IRA as some online experts recommend? If we need more help on this than a Joe and Big Al Spitball will provide, should we seek the help of a certified financial planner, an enrolled agent, or an accountant? Love the show. Andy deserves a raise.

[Andi Last]

Thank you, Bill. All right.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay. So Bill inherited an IRA from his wife's father.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, he died four years ago.

[Joe Anderson]

Four years ago.

[Big Al Clopine]

But they just got the Iraq. Maybe it was in trust. Maybe with the beneficiary as a trust and trusted the RMDs.

[Joe Anderson]

He has not taken an RMD because it's under the secure Act. And he was waiting to figure out, like, was he going to deplete it in the 10th year?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Or maybe because there was that confusion whether you over the last it or not. Maybe that's what happened.

[Joe Anderson]

Take it. Not take. Okay, but then now he passed away over his orange. Because I think the calculator is probably calculating the required minimum distribution based on her father. I don't know how old her father was when he passed because there's these weird rules. If he passed after his required beginning date, if it's already taking the RMD. Yeah.

[Big Al Clopine]

Then you just continue.

[Joe Anderson]

Then you continue those RMDs. If there wasn't an RMD taken so they. He died prematurely.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

Then you can hold on to the.

[Big Al Clopine]

Account until year 10 if you want. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I agree.

[Joe Anderson]

So then he's doing the online calculators. I don't know what online calculator would give him a $35,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, maybe dad died right after he.

[Joe Anderson]

Started RMDs, because that's $950,000. $35,000, that's like 4% very much.

[Big Al Clopine]

Although, of course, maybe the account's growing a lot in the last four years. So maybe it was lower. Well, I don't know.

[Joe Anderson]

But he's right. It does seem low. What I would do is I would empty the bracket that you're in. If you're in the 24% tax bracket, go to the top of the 24.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, I agree. I would go to the top of the 24 every year. And then that last year maybe you got a little extra, you know, so be it. But you got most of it out of the 24. That's your. You just got into the 24% bracket. So. Yeah, go ahead and use that. If you, if you don't do this, you do the 35,000 per year, you wait till you're 10, you're going to be paying 32%, 35%, 37% plus state tax. You don't want to do that. So. Yeah, top of the 24.

[Joe Anderson]

Right. I mean, if the account grows at three and a half percent a year, that's around $35,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Right.

[Joe Anderson]

So in his 10th year, he's got $950,000 that he's going to have to take out.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Right.

[Joe Anderson]

A lot of that is going to be taxed at the top rates.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. By the way, the top of the 24% bracket for a married couple is. Is, we'll call it about 400,000. Actually about 395. So call it 400,000. So get your income to 400,000. Remember, you get a standard deduction married of about 30,000. So your income could actually be about 430. Right. And still stay in that 24% bracket. That's what I would do every year.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep. 24% tax bracket. Max that out and then what experts would say, do not have stocks in an inherited ira.

[Big Al Clopine]

Don't know. That's a strange thing.

[Joe Anderson]

So he doesn't have to sell the stocks either, but let's say he's 100% in the video or pick any stock or stock mutual fund or whatever. You don't have to sell the stock. You can just take out the shares and put it into a brokerage account. Right. So I'm not sure what online pundits are telling you not to invest in.

[Big Al Clopine]

Stocks or I'm wondering that too.

[Joe Anderson]

Or mutual funds inside an inherited ira.

[Big Al Clopine]

All I could think of as well, maybe you want, you don't want your growth in there because you have to pay more taxes. It's like, well, I, yeah, if I have lots of money outside of retirement account, I would favor a non retirement account or a Roth ira. But if, if my choice is making more money or less money and I want, I'd rather make more, even though I'm going to pay a little more.

[Joe Anderson]

Tax that he's in his mid-50s. It's an inherited IRA. So once you get into retirement, he might be thinking about asset location, maybe. So then you look at asset classes and you want certain asset classes like stocks versus bonds in certain accounts, depending on how much money that you have in different accounts. And it's all about taxes. So if you have a Roth account, you don't necessarily want to put a lot of bonds in a Roth account because the growth is going to be tax free. If I have a brokerage account, I probably want to have more stocks in my brokerage account than bonds and CDs because I'm taxed at a capital gains rate which is a lot less than ordinary income. So the bonds that I do hold in my overall portfolio, I would favor them more towards a deferred account versus a non deferred account. But I think an inherited IRA is a totally different animal because it's not like it could be for retirement, but he's got to deplete the account way before he even reaches retirement age.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, right, right.

[Joe Anderson]

So I, yeah, so you probably want to invest that very similar to your brokerage account. I would just journal the shares out of the inherited IRA and throw it into my brokerage account.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Or if you'd rather sell the shares and invest in something different, then no problem. Then invest in something else in your brokerage account. It doesn't matter.

[Joe Anderson]

Yep.

[Andi Last]

We'll get back to required minimum distributions in just a couple of questions. But W. Bill actually saw influencers telling folks not to invest in stocks. What about all the other terrible money tips that are floating around online? You search for one thing about retirement and suddenly the Internet thinks that you need to refinance your home, buy crypto from a guy in sunglasses and stop investing in mutual funds. So yes, it's getting weird out there. Which is why you need to watch the brand new episode of YMYW tv. It's called Financial Advisors Expose the Internet's worst Retirement Strategies. Joe and Big Al walk you through the one thing you should absolutely stop doing right now. And then they break down 13 more viral trends, risky shortcuts, and so called strategies that look tempting but can cost you big time. With simple steps to protect yourself so you don't fall for yolo investing, hot stock picks, dead equity tricks, or any of the other nonsense the finflancers are peddling. Click or tap the links in the episode description to watch Financial advisors exposing the Internet's worst retirement strategies and tell us in the YouTube comments, what is the worst financial advice you've ever seen online.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay, let's go to Cincinnati, Ohio. Hi Joe, Al, Andy. I have what I hope is a simple question. Given that money is in an HSA, can be withdrawn after age 65 with no penalties for non medical related expenses, can it be withdrawn tax free for medical expenses at any time? Is there any good reason not to max out an HSA contribution every year and just treat the contributions as part of our overall pre tax contribution bucket? Okay, HSA Health Savings Account. So he's putting dollars into the health savings account. He's maxing that out. He wants to know, all right, at age 65 actually you would have to roll it into an IRA.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, dollars out of there.

[Joe Anderson]

For any reason?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, for any reason. But I think the rule is this, if you have a H, then you can use those dollars at any age for medical purposes. So that's what it's for. You get a tax deduction going in and it comes out tax free. So that best of all worlds right now, if you have it, still have an HSA account and you reach age 65, you actually can pull the money out. But then Joe, it's like an ira. So in other words, there's no penalty.

[Joe Anderson]

You can use it for anything.

[Big Al Clopine]

Use it for anything.

[Joe Anderson]

But it's taxable income.

[Big Al Clopine]

Taxable. It's taxable as ordinary income, just like an ira. But what you avoid is if you do that before age 65, you have to pay a 20% penalty plus you have to pay the tax. So that's what you're avoiding. So the answer is, or the guidance to the question is yes, there's no reason not to max this out. It's a good deal.

[Joe Anderson]

Because Even after age 65 you can continue to use HSA funds for medical expenses.

[Big Al Clopine]

That's right. Which generally we need to have more medical expenses as we get older.

[Joe Anderson]

Okay, let's go to Western Maryland. Carl, Joel, Andy. Absolutely love how you take such complex topics. I can't even read.

[Big Al Clopine]

I think it's simple words, entertaining.

[Joe Anderson]

Absolutely love how you take complex topics like taxes, investments, retirement and hangover cures. Keep up the great work. Question with a birthday of 11, 4, 59, are RMDs delayed until age 75 or 73? Several respected publications indicate it's 75 and others indicate it's 73. I. These questions are always tricky.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, well, I know the answer to that.

[Joe Anderson]

All right, what is it?

[Big Al Clopine]

73. That's an easy one.

[Joe Anderson]

11, 4, 5, 5.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, so here's how it works. So if you're born. If you're born in 1951-1959, Al goes all the way through December 31st of 1959, your RMD age is 73. If you're born in 1960 and later it's 75. I'm not sure what publications have messed that up, but that's the way it is. That's the rule.

[Joe Anderson]

But her required beginning date is the following year.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah, well, that's different. You want to explain that since you brought it up?

[Joe Anderson]

Well, she doesn't have to take an rmd.

[Andi Last]

It's Carl. I think Carl is.

[Big Al Clopine]

The question was, do you have to take an rmd at age 73 or 75 when you're born at 59?

[Joe Anderson]

It's actually 74. It's.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, okay, if you want to get. It's April 1st of the year following you turn 73. That's a correct statement. But if you do that, you have to do two RMDs in that year. Yeah, well, you just made this really complicated.

[Joe Anderson]

Because it's 74. That's what it is. That's a required beginning date would be age 74 or Carl's. Not.

[Big Al Clopine]

I'll say 73. But you can take it the year after.

[Joe Anderson]

You can take it the year after. All right, let's go. Let's continue. He's got another question. Question is on HSAs.

[Big Al Clopine]

Oh, another one. Okay.

[Joe Anderson]

What is up with the US tax code? No idea. Are they on drugs when they created the crazy rule mandating you stop contributing to an HSA six months prior to starting Medicare? I can barely determine what day of the week it is, let alone the exact date I'm going to go on Medicare. And how does the six month rule change if you're covered by your spouse's health plan. Man, there's a lot more questions in here than does Medicare require you to sign up for plan a hospital or face a penalty? My goal is to continue to max out the HSA contribution as long as possible. Thank you for making your show so much fun. Huge fan.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, I'll start with the Medicare. All right, so Medicare starts at age 65, and you don't necessarily have to start it. Like in other words, if you're covered under a plan or your spouse's plan, you don't have to start Medicare at that point. You can wait till they retire or you retire and you're not, you're not, don't have medical insurance anymore. But the basic rule is this, if you go ahead and take Medicare at age 65, you need to stop your contributions HSA contributions the month before. So that's how that works. That's usually pretty easy to figure out.

[Joe Anderson]

But isn't it six months prior, six months after you're 60? Okay, I'm getting to that. I think that's where the six month comes in. Got it.

[Big Al Clopine]

So if you delay Medicare, you can. Right, under the circumstance that I just said. But then if you delay it after 65, then you have to stop your HSA contributions six months before you start taking Medicare. So I guess the point is you have to estimate when it's going to be. But I wouldn't lose too much sleepover because if you put too many contributions in, you just pull them out before the tax filing data the next year and there's no penalty, no harm, no penalty. So just make your best guess and then readjust later if you need to. So that's the answer to that one.

[Joe Anderson]

Got it. Well, what is that? I forget the penalty if you don't sign up for Medicare because there's the open enrollment. Is your six months prior to your 65th birthday or is it three months prior to your 65th birthday?

[Big Al Clopine]

I forget off the top of my.

[Joe Anderson]

Head, I think it's three months prior to your 65th and then the month of your 65th and then three months after.

[Big Al Clopine]

Okay, that's the six month period. Yeah, that sounds.

[Joe Anderson]

It's actually six. Yes. Seven months.

[Big Al Clopine]

Seven months, including the month.

[Joe Anderson]

Including the month of your 65th birthday.

[Andi Last]

And the part a late enrollment penalty is if you don't buy it when you're first eligible for Medicare, your monthly premium may go up 10%. You'll have to pay the penalty for twice the number of years that you didn't sign up.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah.

[Joe Anderson]

So a good rule of thumb is, I mean, just sign up.

[Big Al Clopine]

There's no reason not to.

[Joe Anderson]

Not to?

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. The Medicare Part B is the health insurance component, so you can wait on that if you're covered under another plan. But yeah, part A, there's no reason not to sign up. There's no additional current cost. Correct.

[Joe Anderson]

Let's go to Mark. How best to reduce taxes at age 73 in $4 million in non Roth accounts? I don't know. No clue.

[Big Al Clopine]

Well, the question is he's going to start his RMD. He's got 4 million bucks in a regular Iraq. What does he do?

[Joe Anderson]

He's 73.

[Big Al Clopine]

Kaboom is right. Well, I'll tell you what to do. So the smartest thing would have been to do Roth conversions before you turn age 73. But if with the RMDs, if they're in a low enough tax bracket, you can still do additional Roth conversions to avert some higher taxes later on. That's one thing you can do. If you're charitably inclined. You can do a qualified charitable distribution.

[Joe Anderson]

Of what does RMD. 280,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Call it 4%. Right? Yep. So that's. That's maybe 164. What if. Yeah, 160.

[Joe Anderson]

160,000.

[Big Al Clopine]

Yeah. Yeah. So you can do QCD for 100,000 that goes directly to charity, and then it's not on your tax return. You could keep working if it's in a 401k and delay it. So there's a couple things, but it's best. That's why we talk about Roth conversions on the show, because you sort of want to do this stuff before you hit RMD age. That's. That's the optimum way to go about this.

[Andi Last]

The good news is that YMYW podcast, episode 558 next week is a big old Roth mega sode. Joe and Big Al will break down exactly when conversions make sense, how far to push your tax bracket, whether high earners should ever convert, and how to avoid blowing up your ACA subsidies, McDreamy, Gary, Wine Guy and gal Robert, Luke and Lorelei, and Phil and Claire will get their specific spitballs. But if you're wondering when to go Roth, when to stay traditional, or how to build tax free income for your retirement, next week is your playbook too. Your money, you, wealth is yous Podcast. We just make it for you. And this show would not be a show without you. If you enjoy what you see and hear, please leave your honest reviews or ratings in Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Subscribe and join the conversation in the comments on our YouTube channel and share the show with anyone you know who thinks that their tax situation is totally fine. Remember, it's November 25th, which means you've only got a very small window left to get your free financial assessment and make smart changes to bring down your 2025 taxes. For help figuring out your own Roth strategy, or if you just want to know where you stand before the calendar flips, click or tap the link in the episode description to schedule Schedule a free financial assessment with one of the experienced professionals on Joe and Big Al's team at Pure Financial Advisors. Meet at one of our 14 offices around the country or get your assessment online over zoom right from home. It's completely free and there's no obligation, but the clock is ticking. Pure Financial Advisors is a registered investment advisor. This show does not intend to provide personalized investment advice through this podcast and does not represent that the securities or services discussed are suitable for any investor. As rules and regulations change, podcast content may become outdated. Investors are advised not to rely on any information contained in the podcast in the process of making a full and informed investment decision.