Will Buying Your Dream Home Ruin Early Retirement? - 559

Summary

Podcast Summary: Your Money, Your Wealth - Episode 559

Title: Will Buying Your Dream Home Ruin Early Retirement?
Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Joe Anderson, CFP® & Alan “Big Al” Clopine, CPA

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a mix of ambitious retirement dreams and grounded financial analysis. Joe and Big Al field listener questions on topics ranging from early retirement feasibility, managing large real estate purchases (like dream homes and beach houses), optimal tax strategies, Roth conversions, managing multiple properties, and whether to pay off a mortgage before retirement. True to form, the duo blends practical advice with their signature humor, making serious financial considerations entertaining and relatable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Are We Secretly in the Top 0.01%? The “David” Case

[02:16–06:30]

• David’s Profile: 47, wife 53, $1.5M in 401(k), $250k Roth, $66k savings, $95k left on $450k house, college funds set, maxes out 401(k), $200k income (+ wife’s $100k).
• Retirement Goal: $10k/month retirement spending (golfing, skiing).
• Analysis:
  • Joe runs the numbers: in 20 years, with consistent savings and a 6% return, invests grow to $7.2M by 67.
  • With $10k/month in expenses (~$217k/year inflated), distribution rate is just 3%—well below the rule-of-thumb 4%.
  • Big Al: "You’re the demographic you’re complaining about." (04:30)
  • Recommendation to shift current or future contributions to Roth 401(k), especially given steady income and current savings rate.
  • Household likely in the 24% tax bracket; Roth contributions now could provide tax-free growth and flexibility.

Joe (04:31): “Already he makes $200,000, they got roughly $2 million bucks at 47. That’s 10x. You should have 10x at 60… and he’s 20 years younger almost. So he’s doing well.”

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2. Dream Lake House with $10 Million: Mia & Jesse from Seattle

[06:38–16:30]

• Profile: 51 & 58, $5.5M in Roth/401(k)/IRAs, $5.5M in brokerage, $440k household income, own home (mortgage $1M, value $2.5M), seven rental homes, $300k/year spending, considering $3-$4M dream lakefront home with 50% down.
• Questions: Can we buy the dream home and stay on track? How aggressively should we do Roth conversions? Should we stop 401(k) contributions in favor of brokerage savings?
• Analysis:
  • Marginal tax bracket: Their CPA suggests not crossing $500k income (top of the 32% bracket).
  • Big Al advocates conversions up to the top of 32% and using Roth 401(k) for new contributions—company match will still be pre-tax, but no reason to forgo it.
  • On buying the home: with $5.5M in taxable accounts, they can put $1.5–$2M down and carry a mortgage. Current cash flow supports the plan. Rental properties could be sold or exchanged if liquidity is ever tight.
  • Joe’s Advice: Take a bigger mortgage initially; see how the payments feel, then pay it down with liquidity or from future windfalls.

Big Al (11:33): “Convert to about $530,000 with the standard deduction… Do not stop 401(k) contributions. Go to the Roth 401(k); you still get the match.”

Joe (14:49): “I would probably get a pretty large note to start… don’t touch the brokerage account and see how that payment feels. Then throw more cash at it if it’s comfortable.”

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3. Mortgage Dilemma Near Retirement: “Yosemite Sam”

[17:25–25:22]

• Profile: Both 54, contemplating retirement—move to a lake house (value $600–800k, $400k mortgage@2.5%), current home paid off (will sell, expect $500k), $2M tax-deferred + $300k Roth, $50k brokerage.
• Concerns: Whether to pay off the 2.5% mortgage, tap 401(k) early via Rule of 55, worry about 4%+ withdrawal rate before Social Security, possible need to support adult child.
• Analysis:
  • Current plan—sell paid-off home, use proceeds for expenses and Roth conversions.
  • Hosts urge against paying off the low-rate mortgage—liquidity is king in early retirement, especially with uncertainty about expenses or earning.
  • At age 55, withdrawal rate is higher than ideal (~4%+), but with part-time work or tighter spending, it’s manageable.
  • “If you have a 2.5% mortgage, keep it.” — Big Al

Big Al (24:54): “No, no, no, [paying off the mortgage] would be a big mistake… You want liquidity in retirement. If your mortgage is 7%, then that’s totally different.”

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4. Early Retirement Bridge Funds: Todd & Margo

[25:22–37:30]

• Profile: 39 & 41, $450k pre-tax, $135k Roth, $450k brokerage, $50k small company investment, several homes (including a paid-off vacation home in Cabo). Todd: $250k+ salary + RSUs; Margo: S-Corp, solo owner, $60k salary, $80–100k business profit, uses various creative tax strategies (rents office/investment properties to business, Augusta Rule for 14-day rentals, heavy travel credit from business cards).
• Retirement Plan: Todd wants to retire at 50, using non-retirement assets and Margo’s part-time business income until 59.5.
• Tax Planning: Focus on after-tax/brokerage savings to bridge the "retirement gap" before accessing retirement accounts, but ask if more could go into pre-tax plans or Roths for long-term tax benefit.
• Hosts’ Recommendations:
  • Max out pre-tax and Roth options, especially Roth 401(k) and consider defined benefit/solo-k for Margo.
  • Contributions to Roth IRAs can be withdrawn penalty-free at any time (FIFO basis).
  • Non-qualified savings bridge is in good shape, so further retirement plan contributions make sense for long-term growth, especially given high tax bracket and low relative retirement balances at their ages.
  • Watch out for IRS rules in property/business transactions; ensure “office rentals” and the Augusta Rule are executed correctly.

Big Al (34:25): “She could set up a solo 401 plan…then, if she wanted, set up a defined benefit plan on top of that.”

Joe (35:04): “A lot of people don’t understand this: Roth IRA contributions come out tax-free regardless of your age … it’s FIFO—contributions always come out first.”

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5. The $500k Beach (Lake?) Home at 35: Birdie & Bogey

[38:44–44:43]

• Profile: Both 35, $150k savings, $200k brokerage, $700k retirement (including $400k Roth), $450k mortgage on $700k house, $135k/year savings (combined cash + retirement), $150k/year spending.
• Goal: Buy a $500k beach/second home in 5–8 years, while maintaining current lifestyle.
• Analysis:
  • Big savings rate and young age set them up very well—estimated $8–10M by age 55 with continued saving at 6% returns, even without squeezing expenses.
  • Caution against using all cash for the purchase; recommend a mortgage to avoid draining investment compounding.
  • Hosts joke about practicality—real estate prices in VA beach area, risks with relying on continuous high income, and the reality of life changes.
  • “I’d say, live it up, buy your place that you want to buy.” — Big Al (42:14)
  • Real estate search: $500k is realistic for a lake house in Virginia, but an oceanfront beach house is harder to find at that price point.
  • “On paper, this works. But real life will get in the way… The biggest asset is probably their income.” — Joe (42:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On high achievers worrying they’re “not on track”:

  “You’re in the demographic you’re complaining about.” – Joe (04:31)

• On mortgage payoff in early retirement:

  “No, no, no, that’s a big mistake. At a low mortgage rate—you want your liquidity in retirement.” – Big Al (24:54)

• On Roth IRA flexibility:

  “A lot of people don’t know… Roth contributions come out tax-free, regardless of how old you are. It’s FIFO—first in, first out.” – Joe (35:04)

• On big life purchases:

  “If I want a dream home for three or four million dollars, 50% down makes sense… But I wouldn’t do all cash, that takes too much out of my liquidity.” – Big Al (14:16)

• On youthful financial discipline:

  “How are these people doing it? … Do you live in your parents’ basement?” – Joe (39:51)
  “Maybe they’re part of the FIRE movement.” – Big Al (40:17)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Start | |---|---|---| | David’s On-Track Assessment | Retirement planning, Roth vs. pre-tax | 02:16 | | Mia & Jesse’s Dream Home + Roth Conversion | High net worth, real estate, tax strategies | 06:38 | | Yosemite Sam, Early Retirement & Mortgage | Mortgage payoff, withdrawal rate, liquidity | 17:25 | | Todd & Margo’s Pre-50 Retirement Bridge | Business tax hacks, retirement bridges | 25:22 | | Birdie & Bogey’s Beach Home Plan | Young high-income, saving pace, second home | 38:44 |

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Takeaways

• Liquidity in retirement is more valuable than paying off low-interest debt.
• For high-income, high-savings households: Roth contributions and conversions are increasingly attractive as future tax rates may rise and RMDs can create tax headaches.
• Creative business/tax moves are fine—but be sure they’re legitimate and IRS-compliant.
• Buying big-ticket items (dream homes, beach houses) is feasible with planning, but life can upend “on-paper” plans.
• Early planners (Birdie & Bogey) are exceptionally well-positioned and can afford some lifestyle splurges—prudence is still warranted in case of income changes.

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Final Thoughts

Through good humor and deep experience, Joe and Big Al make clear that successful retirement planning is about thoughtful flexibility—maximizing tax advantages, maintaining cash/investment balance, and enjoying life without compromising future security. “Don’t delay life year after year—have a plan, check your numbers, but don’t wait forever.”

Transcript

[A]

Today on youn Money, you, Wealth Podcast, 559, David wants to know if he and his wife are actually on track at age 47. Without realizing, they're creeping toward that.01% crowd that David swears he's not part of. Mia and Jesse from Seattle want to retire and still pick up their dream lake house with a combined $10 million saved. Can they pull it off? Yosemite's Sam from Allen, Texas wonders if he should wipe out the lake house mortgage or or keep that low rate loan to hang on to more flexibility as he approaches retirement. Joe and Big Al also spitball on whether Todd and Margot should shift more into pre tax accounts to leave their corporate jobs at age 50 and whether early retirement at 55 plus a $500,000 beach home is in the cards for Bertie and Bogey from Williamsburg. I'm executive producer Andi Last, and here are the hosts of youf Money, you, Wealth, Joe Anderson, CFP and Big Al Clopine, cpa.

[B]

We got David. He wants a little spitball at one point. Oh, God, we're coming out hot.

[C]

Right off the bat. He's got 14 million.

[B]

14 million in my 401.

[C]

5.1 million in my Roth.

[B]

14 million in a 401. That's probably the largest 401 we've ever talked about on this show.

[C]

Well, keep reading, keep reading, Joe.

[B]

Oh, it's all BS. Yeah, got it. All right. $976,000 in cash at $3.5 million home we own outright. We make $2.7 million a year, but only spe $500,000. I'm 33. Can I retire at 67?

Purely fictional. Fictionalized, yes, but not too far off from typical demographic. I'd like to hear from some people who are not in the 0.01%.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Could you imagine 33 year old 14 million?

[C]

I don't know how you do that unless you're with a tech company and it just went through the roof.

[B]

Remember? Was it at Romney?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. He had lots like $100 million in his retirement account. He had company stock and it went through the roof. Yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

That would be a lot of Roth conversions.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay, let's, let's get to it. You could use me. All right.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

This is David Someone not in the 0.0%.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's not in the 0.001%. He's 47, wife is 53. We drink seldom. 1.5 in our 401. 250 in a Roth $66,000 in savings. Only debt is $95,000 left on a $450,000 home. I max out my 401 and the company matches dollar for dollar up to 6% and adds an additional $10,000 ish per year on top of that. It's pretty good.

[C]

That is good.

[B]

I also have $120,000 to find 29 plans for my 15 year old and 12 year old boys. I'd like to retire with my wife as soon as possible. I'm planning on working until 67. I make about $200,000. My wife makes $100,000. We would like to be able to spend $10,000 a month in retirement, golfing and skiing.

[C]

Okay, good goal.

[B]

So $10,000 a month just on golf and skiing.

[C]

I'll assume that's inclusive of other stuff.

[B]

Sounds like my golf budget.

[C]

It does, doesn't it?

[A]

I was going to say, is that what you spend, Joe?

[B]

Yeah, on lessons.

[C]

I thought you were getting good.

[B]

I spent 10,000amonth on lessons and I still shoot 200.

[C]

But don't you win? You don't win all the time. Win all that money. Is that paying off?

[B]

Could you imagine spending $120,000 a year on golf?

[C]

That would be a lot. That'd be. So let's assume his second set of numbers is right.

[B]

So here's 70 months retired, 67.

[C]

Yeah, here's how it looks so 1.8 million today, 20 years from now, 6% rate of return, being conservative, adding about $40,000 a year to savings, he ends up with $7.2 million. And first I will say, David, you're.

[B]

Just like everyone else.

[C]

Everyone else? What are you talking about? So $7.2 million. That's where you're at. What do you Want to spend? $120,000 a year? I just did a 3% inflation rate. You could pick whatever you want. 20 years. So that's like 217,000. So what's your distribution rate? 2,217,000 divided by 7.2 million. Even without regard to Social Security, you're at a 3% distribution rate. So this looks amazing. And I think, like I say, I think you're in the demographic that you're complaining about.

[B]

Already he makes 200,000. They got roughly 2 million bucks at 47. That's 10x.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You should have 10x at 60.

[C]

Yeah, right. Or 65.

[B]

Yeah, 65. And he's 20 years younger almost.

[C]

Right. So he's doing well.

[B]

So it's all relative.

[C]

It is.

[B]

You know, I Think people that listen to the show actually save a little bit. That's why they listen.

[C]

That's why they listen. What do I do with it? Right.

[B]

But. All right, well, let's give him a little bit more. He's 47. One and a half million. They're pumping in a ton of money into the retirement account.

[C]

Yes, they are.

[B]

With the 6% match, dollar for dollar and another $10,000 on top of that, they make 200,000. Oh, the wife makes 300,000 or 100.

[C]

Another 100,000. Yeah.

[B]

So call that 250. What is he in the 20?

[C]

He'll be in the 24 bracket.

[B]

Yeah. 24% tax bracket.

I don't know. I would switch contributions to Roth.

[C]

Agreed.

[B]

And if he's got the mega back door, I think I would do that too. I would imagine. I don't know. He works probably for a small company.

6% match is pretty healthy. Plus another 10,000 on top of that. You think that's a smaller private company?

[C]

Could be hard to know.

[B]

Yeah. If it's for a big public company, then you probably have the after tax component in here that I would definitely would want to be doing at 47.

[C]

Yeah. The only problem with that is there's not a lot in taxable, so he's probably spending for the most part.

[B]

Oh, everything that comes in.

[C]

Yeah. So maybe there's not that much, I don't know. But if there were extra, that would be a great idea.

[B]

Was he got 60. 60, 70 grand in cash. No non qual.

[C]

That's what it looks like. Yeah.

[B]

House is paid off. Maybe you just paid off the house.

[C]

Yeah, maybe. You know, paying that down aggressively. Probably.

[B]

Really good shape though. 529. Plan solid for the kids.

Yeah. I think you can spend $10,000 a month just on golf alone there, David.

Let's.

[C]

Okay, check.

[B]

Let's go to.

[C]

And the. And the fictionalized numbers. Those look really good.

[B]

All right, we're going to go to Mia and Jesse in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Joe, Big Al, Andy. I was searching for retirement pods and yours came up. After listening to a few episodes, I'm hooked. Perfect. Thank you. Love the humor in the back and forth analysis from Joe and Big Al. My husband Jesse and I live in Seattle and have a 23 year old daughter who graduated from UW last year and is working for Amazon.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I'm 51. My husband's 58 years young. I thought she was going to say 58 years younger. That math doesn't work.

[C]

Doesn't quite work.

[B]

58 years young. We both are W2 paying jobs and we want to work for another five to eight years. We love our jobs and don't have any issues. Well, it sounds like Big Al.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it's a great job. I get to be with you once a week and that's all I need.

[B]

I work for an aerospace company in Seattle with great benefits. And Jesse works for an AI startup. Here are the financials. You have five and a half million dollars in a Roth 401 in IRAs and five and a half million dollars in brokerage accounts. Jeez.

[C]

About 11. Eleven million dollars. That's pretty good. Not too shabby at 58 and 51. Your Zank boy.

[B]

Our home is valued at two and a half million dollars. We have a million dollar mortgage left on it. We have seven investment homes in Ohio.

[C]

Wow. Okay. You're doing pretty well. Okay.

[B]

Missouri.

[C]

In Alabama, you want to know if you could retire.

[B]

Yeah.

I spent $10,000 a month. Can we retire? Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[B]

So they got seven investment homes in Ohio, Missouri and Alabama. We make about $3,000 in rental income at 7.35% interest rate. We hope to refinance to lower rates and increase our monthly rental income.

[C]

Okay, good.

[B]

We have not done any Roth conversions and we want to start. Our income is $440,000 annually. And we asked our CPA. He told us not to exceed total $500,000 of income.

Okay. Is this the strategy we should stick to?

I am worried that we will have large RMDs. Can we convert more than a suggested amount every year? Also, should I stop 401 contribution? And it's hard since I get a 10% 401 match. Should I only contribute to the Roth 401 and let go of the company match or just put all the savings into a brokerage account? All right, let's stop here. There's a lot here.

[C]

Yeah, already.

[B]

So $500,000. Why is the accountant saying 500? He's just.

[C]

That's the top of the 32, I think, right?

[B]

400,000 is the top of the 32.

[C]

No, that's the top of the 24. You're looking at that wrong.

[B]

No. What? 200? I'm looking at single. That's why $501,000 is the top of the32.

[C]

Yeah. So I think that's probably what. Because then it jumps to 35%. Yep.

[B]

They make $440,000 annually. So if they do a conversion, they can get to 500 and 530 with 530.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So maybe.

[B]

But they're also maxing out the 401k plan. So that's another $60,000 pre tax.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So 60, 70, 80, 90, 443, 50. So they could do $150,000 conversion.

[C]

Good.

[B]

Yeah. In staying in that 32, 32% tax.

[C]

Bracket, that's probably what I would do. Because if they, if they retire in five to eight years, they're going to have a lot of time, Joe, to be able to do Roth conversions in lower brackets. So that's. Then I would, I would go hard on Roth conversions at that point.

[B]

But if they, I'm not sure they have five and a half million dollars in retirement accounts. I'm not sure. What is the breakout between Ira.

[C]

Yeah, they didn't tell us in Roth. Right, right. With the question. I'm assuming it's mostly in a non Roth, in a regular retirement account.

[B]

So you can convert as much as you want in any given year.

[C]

True.

[B]

If you wanted to convert 100% of your retirement accounts in one year, you could do that. There is no limitation on how much money that you convert. Just know that you're going to be subject to income tax on every dollar that you convert. That's why the accountant is saying 500,000. Don't exceed that because that's the top of your current tax bracket. So you're in the 32% tax bracket. Don't go over 500,000. You could go more if you wanted to, but then that just jumps you into a higher tax bracket that probably is too expensive to pay, given that you're pretty really young. 51 and 58. You still have several years to convert. To convert.

[C]

Yeah. So that's right. So I think we're probably agreeing. I think I would convert to the top of the 32% bracket, which is about $500,000. There's a standard deduction of 30,000, so you can actually to convert to about 530,000.

[B]

Should I stop 401 contributions? No, go to the Roth 401K doesn't change the match. They're going to still match you.

[C]

I think that's the misconception.

[B]

So yeah, if you go Roth, they're still going to match, but they're going to match pre tax. So I would go 100% Roth in my 401 contributions. So don't stop that. Continue to get the 10% match. The 10% match will go into the pre tax bucket. You can convert those dollars out later.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

So no, don't stop. Keep that all Right. So we'll move on here. We also want to buy a lakefront dream home here in Seattle which will cost around 3 to 4 million dollars. Will this push us out of our target retirement time frame? Is this doable with a large down payment of 50% and carry lower loan amount. Any thoughts on how we can buy our dream home? Love to hear your spitball on this. Thanks for all you do. Okay. They have five and a half million dollars of non qual. They want to buy a three to four million dollars dream house. They want to put a couple million dollars down.

[C]

Yeah. You okay with that?

[B]

Yeah. Are they going to sell their current house and have a lakefront dream home.

[C]

And then let's presume they don't. So let's just say.

[B]

Well they got seven other homes. They could probably sell them.

[C]

Yeah, could do a couple 1031 exchanges have a renter in the dream home and later pick them out. Yeah.

[B]

I think everything still works because she's 51.

[C]

Yeah. And they're going to work another five.

[B]

To eight years and they're saving a ton of money.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's just say they got $11 million today. You take away 3 million of that.

[C]

So call it 8 or take away 2 million. If, if they do 50% loan, would.

[B]

You go 50% or would you go more?

[C]

I don't know. That's a good. It depends on the interest rate. I would personally not like to use all of my. I wouldn't do like what do you think they spend?

[A]

She does explain. She says that they spend 300,000.

[C]

300,000.

[B]

So they spent $300,000 a year. They make 440,000 and they're saving into their 401 plans. After tax they're probably break even.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you think they got $5.6 million in a brokerage account?

[C]

Well, because he, Jesse works for an AI startup. So he probably worked for another high tech company. Did well.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm guessing that's usually how that RSU some.

[B]

She works for Amazon. No, the daughter.

[C]

Daughter. She works for aerospace company with great benefits. So I'm going to guess Jesse with stock options. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Maybe the AI company goes bonkers with maybe.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why they're thinking a little dream home.

[C]

Yeah. So I will say this is non scientific because this is just for the by the gut but I, if I want to buy a dream home for three or four million dollars. I kind of like your idea. 50% down payment, 50% loan, probably the interest rate will Be a little bit too high. So we'll look for opportunities to refinance to a lower rate when you have that opportunity. I just hate to use too much of the taxable account. That. That's how I would feel, I think, but I don't know. What do you think?

[B]

I would probably get a pretty large note to start.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And don't touch the brokerage account. And then just see how that payment feels. And then I would just probably be like, okay, can I, can I stomach this?

[C]

Yeah, that's a way to think about it, too.

[B]

And then, then I would throw more cash at it, depending on what interest rate that I can.

[C]

I would say the older you get, the less you like debt. They're 50 and you're younger than me, so.

[B]

She's 51. It's the dream home that they're going to retire into.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And they make great income. He's going to get more stock, I'm guessing. Maybe if it hits you just take the stock and pay off the note.

[C]

There's nothing liquidity. Yeah, I like the. Yeah, that's why I wouldn't do more than half, but. Yeah, no, I get it. You could do more, but I wouldn't do it all cash. That would take too much out of my liquidity.

[B]

I would not do all cash. I would probably do the 20, 30% down.

[C]

I might even, like you said, think about selling a property or two and Ohio, Missouri, Alabama.

[B]

Or do you like to be. Have all these seven properties all over the place?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, or they think that that's going to cash cow and probably usually being a rental property owner myself and I used to have more rentals. You can have lots of rentals. I guarantee if there's seven rentals, there's two or three you'd rather not have compared to the four or five that you really like. So maybe you take those underperformers and sell them and use some of that cash. I don't know.

[B]

I would think about that, but, yeah, I don't know. Well, Big Al, you're making dreams come true here.

[C]

Yeah, I just, I want, I'm. I'm all for living, Living your best life. And if it's on a. If it's a lake home up in Seattle, then I'd say go for it.

[A]

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[B]

Hello, Joe Big Al. Enjoy listening to you guys. You can call me Yosemite Sam.

Remember Yosemite Sam? I do all right, considering I'm going looney chasing the retirement roadrunner.

[C]

Yeah, well, usually that's the. Usually that's the coyote.

[B]

Yosemite Sam wasn't the gunslinger.

[C]

Yeah, he's the guy with the beard.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he was in the road running.

[A]

Handlebar mustache. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well then he talked like got cotton paper.

[C]

Yeah, he did, he did. But I mean, I think of the road, I think of the coyote, his chasing the roadrunner.

[B]

Did Yosemite Sam have his own cartoon? Was he part or was he like a.

[C]

They've got character in that.

[A]

He might have had some of his own cartoons. Wow. And his real name is Aloysius Bartholomew Sam.

[C]

Ah, okay. Yosemite Sam's easier to say. Yeah.

[B]

I take it it's from Yosemite. Probably. All right. My wife and I are both 54 years old, turning 55 next summer.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

All right. We are considering retiring soon. Between ages 55 and 60. We know too many friends in their 40s, early 50s who have passed away recently.

[C]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

And so even though we are in excellent health, we know life can be short. And we want to be sure we not only have a long and enjoyable retirement, but also enjoy time without working in our younger years to travel and experience life should the unthinkable happen to one of us. I drive 2024 Ford Ranger, is a first time truck owner, native Texan. Imagine that.

My wife drives a 2025 Kia Sportage. All right, so we just replaced both of our vehicles and intend to drive them for 10 plus years. I do miss my 2016 BMW X5. We traded in for the Kia. Quite the downgrade in performance slash fun factor. Yeah, we went with a Kia from a BMW.

[C]

Yeah, that's A big change. Yeah.

[B]

I prefer a hazy IPA but have been known to sip a 12 year old Scotch. My wife and I both enjoy glasses of both white and red wines. Here's our current savings. Taxable IRAs of 401ks, 2 million bucks Roth IRAs, 300 grand HSAs, 30,000 brokerage account, 50k. Primary home is paid for worth 600,000. Lake House worth 6 to 800. We got a mortgage on that $400,000 balance with 26 more years. The lake home is our future retirement home and current plan is to sell our primary home at retirement. We have estimated in Today's dollars about $128,000 of expenses which includes the mortgage, medical insurance and some travel. We have no debt besides the mortgage and currently our employment makes us around $200,000. Combined we have no pensions. Social Security estimates will be around $50,000 for me, $30,000 for her at age 67 and 70.

So here's our current plan. We want to quit our jobs, sell the paid off house and move permanently to the lake house. Placing the roughly $500,000 of house proceeds in a safe account to fund the loss of income in our early retirement years and also to fund some taxes. We for Roth conversions. See, Yosemite Sam has got the magic neighbor rug where he can, you know.

[C]

Just go, go next door and neighbor sleeping so you go under the rug.

[B]

Another option we are considering is to pay off the mortgage and use the additional 350,000 from our current employer 401 s as a rule of 55 without penalty to use as income. But this moves a larger chunk of our savings into non liquid equity. As a Dave Ramsey follower and previous Financial Peace coordinator, I know how rewarding a paid for house is. However, in this instance we only have 2.5% interest. It seems like we would be better off keeping that mortgage, giving us more liquidity cash to allow us to retire early. What do you think? Pay off the mortgage, tap the 401 or live off the proceeds from selling the house? Also, can we even retire this early? I'm a little concerned we will have a little higher than a 4% withdrawal rate until Social Security kicks in. Every year though we delay retirement, the prediction improves considerably. But we don't want to be the ones that delays year after year after year. We have an adult child who had mental issues and we may end up having to pay for some of his living if he can't make it on his own. So we've exhausted.

So we are exhausted from dealing, from dealing with that, but also are simply just tired of our full time jobs. We're ready to relax. All right. Intend to be a little woodworking there.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Got to begin a hobby doing woodworking. Once retirement is real or very close. Though we're not opposed of doing some part time work.

I don't know, how long can you do woodworking? You probably do one little quick project and you're like, hey, I got splinters, there's sawdust everywhere.

[C]

Some people probably like it. Now for you and me, maybe a couple days.

[B]

I don't know. I don't think maybe a couple hours.

[C]

A couple hours?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you burn your finger on something or you cut it with a.

[B]

Saw, you know, and then it just looks like crap and it's.

[C]

And then you go. And then you put it in the fireplace.

[B]

I spent two weeks making this little wood thing.

[C]

Yeah, it's like your wife says. What is it? Well, I don't know, it's a knickknack.

[B]

I'm not sure.

[C]

Well, let me start with the retirement because let's say you retire now, which is basically right around the corner next summer. So just going with current numbers between what you have and selling the home, you'd end up with about $2,700,000. You want to spend $128,000. That's a 4 point percent distribution rate at age 55. Yeah, that would make me a little nervous. But I'm not going to say not to do it.

[B]

Just have to just do it. Live your life. That Lego.

[C]

Just get, just, just get some part time work to, to supplement.

[B]

Yeah, sell some wood.

[C]

Wood makings, but without part time income. I would, I would be a little uncomfortable with that now. In five years, Joe, I just kind of ran that, you know, I don't know how much you're saving, but let's just say you start with what you got, 6%, add $30,000 a year for five years, you end up with $3,200,000 plus the $500,000 on the real estate. Maybe it's higher. But let's say you end up with $3,700,000 and by then you're $128,000. With 3% inflation is $148,000. Now it's a 4% distribution rate at age 60 with Social Security coming. Yeah, I'm okay with that. But your goal is to retire earlier. So yes, you can do it. But you probably want to either reduce your expenses a little bit, get some part time work, or maybe a combination of Both to feel more comfortable with this, you know, Dave Ramsey. And this is exactly what he would tell you as well. So, you know, don't get yourself, don't spend too much and then have to go back to work when you don't really want to. So that's what I would say on that.

[B]

Would you do you can pay off that mortgage?

[C]

No, no, no, that's. To me, that's a big mistake. At a low mortgage rate. Yeah. You want your liquidity in retirement. Now if you. If your mortgage is 7%, then that could be something totally different. But what is it? 2.6% interest rate. I keep that. Yeah, I had one of those one way back. Oh yeah, Back before you bought the new home.

[B]

Yeah.

Still dream about that one.

[C]

Still dream about it.

[B]

I do.

[C]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

We got Todd and Margo from Texas. We've been listening to your podcast for about a year now and it's a great way to learn bits of information about a broad range of tax and retirement topics. We love a good champagne, spicy margaritas and old fashions. Check, check and check.

[C]

You like champagne?

[B]

Not really.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But I'll have a glass at a wedding or something.

[C]

Well, sure, yeah. I had a glass at your wedding.

[B]

You did? It was good.

[C]

Very good. Yeah. Probably spare no expense.

[B]

That's. That's. That wasn't me. You would have got it. CR Light.

[C]

I got. I got the special box. Yes, you did.

[B]

You did. All right. We had a paid off Tahoe in a leased work vehicle paid by company Margo owns. Okay. Margo owns a company, by the way.

[A]

Todd and Margo. Joe, does that name, those names sound familiar to you?

[B]

Todd and Margo?

[C]

Yeah. Good.

[A]

It's apparently the suburban yuppie neighbors of the Griswold family in the 1989 movie National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

[C]

That's one of the movies too. Yeah, that Margot.

[B]

Okay, that's.

[C]

Was that the Christmas vacation one?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Where they ended up burning down the Christmas tree? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

The cat.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, got it. Yeah.

[B]

Because cousin Eddie.

[C]

Cousin Eddie lit the sewer on fire.

[B]

Yeah, let's see her on fire.

Get the old man. What was his name that lit the cigar?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

Right.

[B]

Okay. Uncle Harley.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think maybe Uncle Charlie maybe don't have any children and we're happy being an aunt. Uncle Todd works at a corporate job. Margo owns her own company where she is the only employee. Our goal is that Todd can retire from a corporate job when he's 50 and we can live off our non retirement funds. And Margo's company until we can access the retirement funds.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Much of Margo's job can be done remotely or in focus months. When we're in our hometown, she can still mostly likely earn 50 to $75,000 working only six months out of the year. We'd like to amass $4 million in non retirement assets.

By the time Todd retires. When we get closer to 50, we will look more closely at our yearly spending needs, overall saving and desired lifestyle. If Todd needs to work longer, he'll just work longer. We'd love to travel and spend months at a time in various countries because we're focused on bridging the gap from age 50 to 59. Most of our yearly contributions is focused in non retirement investments. However, we'd love a little more insight on other tax strategies or if you could shift more of our funds into a pre tax retirement. Okay. Look at some ideas.

[C]

All right. Yeah, me too.

[B]

Let's see what we got here. We got current savings. They got a 401 traditional IRA of $450,000. Roth IRA is 135. Brokerage and savings is 450,000. Small company investments of $50,000. They got real estate, primary home, $1.2 million investment. Condo. 450. Vacation condo in Cabo. 250.

[C]

Paid off with a cash flow.

[B]

Yeah, low cash flow. $10,000 annually.

Wonder how often they get to Cabo.

[C]

I don't know, but probably from Texas. Probably frequently? I don't know. A couple times a year. Okay, three.

[B]

All right. Earnings. Todd. He makes $250,000 salary, plus bonus, plus $200,000 of RSUs with a promotion in the near future. Congratulations, Todd.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

Margo's company is fairly stable and predictable. She files a S Corp and is the only employee. She pays herself a salary. $60,000. And the company will make about 80 to $100,000 of profit while also allowing us to utilize several tax advantages. Okay. Her company rents the investment condo. Oh, God.

[C]

As an office?

[B]

Yeah. They're getting pretty great caboose.

[C]

Well, if it really is to audit Margo.

[B]

That's funny how I asked how often they make it to Cabo. Yeah, they should be there every day.

[C]

May need to.

[B]

Yeah. Our company rents the investment condo from us as an office and covers the entire mortgage, taxes and HOA fees through 3333 monthly.

[C]

So that. That's.

[B]

Oh, the investment comp. Not the Cabo one.

[C]

That. Right, right. Yeah. So that would be okay if it's a fair market. Rent, first of all. And secondly, if it's actually being used as an office and not any personal use. So just remember, you got to be doing those two things, and if those two things are true, then that's okay.

[B]

$3,000 a month. That sounds fair market value for rent.

[C]

Could be.

[B]

Her company rents a storage unit and parking space from us at $500 monthly. So he's got a closet. It's the garage.

[C]

You know, I'm going to call BS on that.

Because she's got a predictable and stable business. That sounds like a CPA doing tax returns. Service business.

I don't know what she would need to have a storage unit for piles. That's what the investment guide is for.

[A]

Boxes of paperwork.

[C]

Tax returns.

Anyway. Okay, go ahead.

[B]

We use the Augusta rule, and our company rents our vacation condo from us at fair market rate.

[C]

Now that one. That's an interesting one. That's Augusta, Georgia. So. And that came about when people were renting their homes for just the Masters.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

So here's the rule, which is if you rent any property for 14 days or less, it's tax free. That's what the Augusta rule is.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

And by the way, just for grins, that's IRS section 280, capital A in parentheses, little G. We used the.

When I was younger, there were people that quoted code sections, and I just thought, I'm never going to be that guy. But I thought, you know what? Once in my life, I should be that guy.

[B]

I love quoting. I love quoting the tax cut to.

[C]

80, capital A, parentheses, little G. Check it out.

[B]

Check. I'll check that box. All right, so the Augusta rule in our company rents our vacation condo from us.

[C]

You did that one.

[B]

I know, but that doesn't make any sense.

[C]

He's amazed.

[B]

14 days.

[C]

No, no, that's another. That would be another property we use.

[B]

The Augusta Rural Inner. Company rents our vacation condo. The company rents our vacation condo from us.

[C]

That's probably. That's probably. That's probably in Cabo.

[B]

So the company's renting.

[C]

So it's tax free. Company gets the deduction. Yeah. So they're.

[B]

So the company rents the Cabo condo 14 days. She's taking clients to Cabo.

[C]

She's got to work down there. And he. He sleeps in a hotel because it's 100% business.

[B]

Her company credit cards, generates $15,000 worth of travel credit that we use for vacations. All right?

[C]

It's a lot of spending.

[B]

That's $15,000 travel.

[C]

Maybe I take that. Maybe she doesn't have a service Business. That'd be a lot of spending to get that much credit.

[B]

Oh, yearly savings contribution. Todd contributes $9,000 salary. 9% of his salary. I'm sorry, $18,000 and a $9,000 company match to a 401k which maxes out his company match. Todd immediately sells his RSU and will contribute at least 100,000 of those after tax into our brokerage account. We contribute $15,000 annually into the brokerage account. We put 10% of Todd's salary into an ESPP account where you can purchase stock at a 15% discount. They do $20,000 a year. There's. We aren't currently contributing any additional funds into traditional retirement accounts. And our modified adjusted gross income is more than 264 limit for Roth IRA contributions. Question mark, should Tom max out his 401?

Yes. Are there tax advantaged accounts that Margo Company could set up? She doesn't plan to hire any full time employees in the future. Can she create an Employer 401 plan? The answer is yes. Other than the company sponsored 401k, are there other tax advantaged ways for Margo's company to think about the 80 to $100,000 profit that she'll make each year? Sure. Okay. So yeah, I think Todd should max out the 401. Margo could set up a solo 401 plan. So individual 401, she could do traditional or Roth.

She could contribute even more to. She could set up another defined benefit.

[C]

Plan on top of that if she wanted to. Yep. So she could more. Yeah, I think that. Well, but part of their goal is to retire at what, age 50? Yeah, age 50. So they're thinking we don't want so much money in a retirement account.

[B]

Well, they want to spend $130,000 a year.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And she's going to make 60.

[C]

Yeah, she'll make.

[B]

But she's making 200 some today.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or 160 today.

[C]

Yeah, she'll mostly. Yeah, she'll earn 50 to 75,000 part time. Sounds like. Yep. So I think that I, I agree with you on the 401k, but I think I would do, I would say this, use the Roth option because you know, a lot of people don't tax treatment. Yeah, right. A lot of people don't understand this rule. With a, with a Roth IRA contribution comes out tax free when you pull it out, regardless of how old you are. So let's do a little example. You got $500,000 in a Roth IRA and 200,000 of that is contributions Just to make up an example, you're age 50. You want to pull out 10 grand to cover some living expenses. You pull out 10 grand, it's tax free because you have $200,000 of contributions. It's FIFO tax treatment. First in, first out, meaning that contributions always come out first. I think a lot of people don't. They think they have to wait to 59 and a half. You don't necessarily on a contribution. Now, the truth is we'd rather have you let your cost contributions grow for decades, so. Because you got that money into the tax free in the first place. But if that's what you need for your retirement, I'd rather have the money be in a Roth and pull it out from a Roth than in a non retirement account where you're paying taxes on capital gains and interest and dividends.

[B]

Here's what I'm coming up with, bud.

[C]

What do you get?

[B]

Okay. $450,000, what they currently have in brokerage savings. He's got RSUs that's going to net them $100,000 that they're going to sell and put in a brokerage account. Plus they got the ESPP of $15,000.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Okay, so that's $115,000 of non qualified savings that they're going to save over the next 15 years.

[C]

Yeah. Now the reason I said what I said is because I'm not necessarily counting on the RSUs. Maybe they happen every year, maybe they don't. If they happen every year, I like where you're going. So continue.

[B]

So that's 115,000. So 450,000 plus $115,000 of savings is like 4 million bucks.

[C]

So they got. Yeah, right.

[B]

That's going to cover the shortfall for sure that they could bridge. So everything else, given the tax brackets that they're in, I would want to.

[C]

Get as much in the Roth as possible.

[B]

Yeah. Or even the traditional IRA. They only got 450 there as well.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

So it's not like it's 4.5 million. I mean, they're 35 years old. Just watch it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So there are 260,000 plus she plays self employment tax. They're doing a lot of interesting things from a tax perspective.

[C]

They really are.

[B]

They probably went to like how to Save tax seminar.

[C]

That probably did.

[B]

Chattanooga.

[C]

Texas.

[B]

Let's see, by Locondo and Cabo. Rent it out to yourself.

[C]

Yeah. Use the Augusta rule. That's. Yeah, yeah, probably.

[A]

That was.

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[B]

Birdie and Bogey. Oh, we gotta go to Birdie and Bogey.

[C]

Yeah, that's right up your alley.

[B]

Yeah, Birdie and Bogey from Williamsburg, Virginia. Would love to get your spitball on two questions. First, let's get the important information out of the way. Birdie loves a glass of pers. Oh, you know what, I screwed up on that last one because I was already on Birdie and Bogey and they're 35 years old. How old is Margo and Todd?

[A]

39 and 41.

[C]

41.

[B]

Oh, 39 and 41.

[C]

So it's close enough.

[B]

Sorry.

[C]

Oh, you were looking at the wrong one.

[B]

I was.

[C]

Disclaimer. Everything you just said.

[B]

Yeah, everything I just said is just terrible. Terrible. Spitball. Would love to get your spitball on two questions. First, let's get the important stuff out of the way. Birdie loves a little glass of Prosecco. I love a nice hazy ipa. We drive a Volvo and Toyota that are paid off. We're both 35 years old and have the following. 150,000 in savings, 200,000 in a brokerage account, $700,000 in retirement, 400 being post tax. But I'm working on increasing that amount in the future. Man, 35 years old.

[C]

That's incredible. How are these people doing it?

[B]

I don't know. We have $450,000 left on our house. That is worth about 700,000 with no other debt. I calculate we save about $45,000 a year that I split between our cash savings brokerage account. We are able to save $90,000 a year into our retirement accounts. Do you live in your parents bedroom? I mean basement.

[C]

Could be. Maybe they're part of the fire movement.

[B]

Yeah, $90,000. We're able to save in our retirement accounts plus $45,000 in cash. That's 100.

Okay. We spent $150,000. My plan is to cut back my hours to the bare minimum around 55 years old so I can spend more time on the. With my wife. How am I doing? You're doing fine. Just fine.

[C]

Agreed.

[B]

Most importantly, can we afford a beach home? Nothing too fancy, just a place where we can go to get away from the daily grind. So I have a $500,000 budget for this home. Would it be reasonable to purchase in the next five to eight years or would be foolish for us to even entertain. The idea is we have $450,000 left on our home. Let me know what you think. Thanks for all you do. All right. I like this question.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So first of all, you think they're okay?

[B]

Dude, how you doing? I want to play golf with Bertie and Bogey.

[C]

Yeah. Bernie and Bogey. You're doing great.

[B]

So can they afford the beach home? What do you do? What do you do? Al, they're 35. They want to buy it at 40.

[C]

Yeah, 40, 40.

[B]

$500,000 budget.

[C]

I think they can do it. I think I would probably. I wouldn't do all cash. I'd get a loan on it. But yeah, no, I, I'll take. I mean, if, if you just take where they're at now at a. Roughly a million dollars and 20 years and add another 140 grand or a year, 6%. 7. You're somewhere between 8 and 10 million just right there. Right.

[B]

And so if they buy the house, $500,000, you're going to take $200,000 out of the brokerage account or the savings for a down payment.

[C]

Agreed.

[B]

You're going to have a note of 300,000. That's going to add to the expenses. So they're not going to be able to save 130,000? No, they're probably going to be able to save 100.

[C]

My. My point is there's a lot of extra here.

[B]

A ton of extra.

[C]

So. So, yeah, I would say, yeah, live it up. Buy your place that you want to buy. Yeah. The problem with using all cash on something like that is you take too much out of your portfolio and the time value money when you'd lose a lot of growth that way. That's. That's why you want to get a loan. But yeah, no, I think this works just fine.

[B]

But here's the. Yeah, on paper. But real life will get in the way. Oh, sure. So I don't know how much he makes.

[C]

Well, probably a lot to save that much fun.

[B]

So again, I think that's, that's their biggest asset. So let's say they buy the beach house and something happens. The company goes bankrupt. Yeah, it's a small, you know, or he gets laid up. I don't know, he gets sick. Sure, sure, that income goes. Now he's got two mortgages hanging over his head.

[C]

Well, you sell one if you have to.

[B]

Yeah. Buy or sell. The stress just goes through this guy. Very prudent.

[C]

Not when you got, you know, got a million dollars already at 35, I guarantee.

[B]

Well, the reason why he's got a million dollars at 35 is that he's not buying beach homes.

[C]

But he's spending 150. That's not nothing. He's not living in the parents basement.

[B]

I suppose 150 is.

[C]

That's a healthy, this healthy spin.

[B]

Yeah. But I guarantee this guy could probably live off of 50.

[C]

Probably.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Yep. I think it looks good.

[B]

I would. Yeah, right back in five years. Let's take a look. Yeah, Then, then, yeah, but a beach house for 500, 000. What beach is he?

[C]

Well, it's. He's in Virginia. We, we don't know the east coast property, but I would think it'd be more expensive or as expensive as here.

[B]

Depends where you go. Yeah, I was just in Kiawah island, so. A couple blocks from the ocean.

[C]

Yeah. And I was just in Martha's Vineyard and it was not 500,000, not 500,000.

[B]

I mean, there's some homes that were pretty old and we were looking and you're. If you're on the ocean, a beach home. Several million.

[C]

Well, maybe by beach home it means like four blocks away or.

[B]

But how relaxing is that? I mean, would you want to live like in pb? No, that would be like a beach home, right?

[C]

Yeah. No, that wouldn't.

[B]

The hustle and bustle like four or five blocks out.

[C]

I mean, if you're 25, that'd be fun.

[B]

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe it's a lake home. Maybe a Lake home is 500,000. A beach home. I don't know if you can find a beach home.

[C]

Well, there's not too many beaches in Virginia. I do know that.

[B]

And Virginia is a very expensive place.

[C]

Maybe not for lake home, I don't know. But yeah, I would say Google, what's.

[B]

The average beach house in Virginia?

Williamsburg. How far away is Williamsburg from the ocean?

[C]

I would think pretty far.

[A]

Let's see. There are no beach homes in Williamsburg, Virginia, as it is an inland city.

[C]

Well, do a lake home.

[A]

Let's see. Average lake house in Williamsburg, Virginia.

[B]

Well, I would just say Virginia.

[C]

Yeah. Virginia generally. Probably not Williamsburg.

[B]

It's not 500.

[A]

Maybe it's a 250 to 500,000 for a 2,500 square foot home.

[C]

Beach home for lake home.

[A]

Lake home.

[B]

Oh, that's. We'll go beach. Let's go to the beach.

[C]

Well, there's no beaches in Virginia.

[B]

Well, isn't there? I don't even know where Virginia. There is. Isn't there?

[A]

The average beach house in Virginia varies significantly. But in the Virginia beach area, the median home listing price was 429, 900 as of September 2025. Price of 390.

[C]

I stand corrected. So they do have beach homes.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I dated a girl from Beach. Okay, Bob. Beach. She was a nurse.

[C]

Huh. How about that? Back in the day, learn about a new beach to visit. That's great. But.

[B]

Yeah, let's go. Yeah. You canoe in it?

[C]

I think so. I get it. I graduated kayaks.

[B]

Okay, that's it. Happy holidays. I guess it is the season.

[C]

It is.

[B]

I don't know when this will air.

[C]

Me neither. But I'm sure it's going to be holiday season.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Happy, happy, happy, happy.

[B]

All right, we'll see you soon, folks. Show's got your money.

[A]

Well, next week on ymyw, Joe and Big Al spitball on high yield investments versus safe retirement income. How much risk is too much? How much cash is too much? Does a pension replace your need for bonds? How do you match your investments to the amount of time you have until retirement? Join us and find out next week, won't you please? Time flies, especially when it comes to planning for your retirement at year end. So don't put your financial future on hold. Get a comprehensive assessment from one of the experienced professionals on Joe and Big Al's team at Pure Financial Advisors to see if you're on track. It's free, just like a spitball. But the financial assessment is one on one and customized just for you, not for the entire YMYW audience. The pros at Pure will analyze your entire financial picture. Figure out where you are now and where you want to be in the future, identify potential roadblocks and help you create a detailed, personalized plan to get you to your ideal retirement. Don't wait to book. Book your meeting right now. Everyone is looking for last minute ways to save on their 2025 taxes and to prepare for what's coming in 2026, so click or tap the link in the episode Description now or call 888-994-6257 to schedule your free financial assessment ASAP. Pure Financial Advisors is a registered Investment Advisor. This show does not intend to provide personalized investment advice through this podcast and does not represent present that the securities or services discussed are suitable for any investor. As rules and regulations change, podcast content may become outdated. Investors are advised not to rely on any information contained in the podcast in the process of making a full and informed investment decision.