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- [00:00]
Temby Locke
It's morning in New York. Hey, everybody, I'm Andy Patinkin. And I'm Kathryn Grody. And we have a new podcast. It's called don't listen to us.
- [00:14]
Penn Badgley
Many of you have asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people.
- [00:19]
Temby Locke
Don't listen to us. Our take it or leave it advice.
- [00:21]
Nava Kavilan
Show is out every Wednesday, premiering October 15th.
- [00:26]
Sophie Ansari
A Lemonada Media original.
- [00:32]
Temby Locke
Lemonada. My first heartbreak was liking someone thinking we were going steady in air quotes, only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.
- [00:49]
Sophie Ansari
Aw.
- [00:50]
Temby Locke
Like the classic, like, thing you would see in like, you know, a Y in a film. It was just, it was terrible. But I won't name his name because, you know.
- [01:00]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah, give him that, that gift.
- [01:02]
Nava Kavilan
Give him a little grace.
- [01:05]
Penn Badgley
Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.
- [01:08]
Nava Kavilan
I'm Nava.
- [01:09]
Sophie Ansari
And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.
- [01:12]
Nava Kavilan
Practicing.
- [01:19]
Sophie Ansari
Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're so happy to have you here. Crushies. It's your favorites, Nava and Sophie. Before we get started with our episode today, which is an amazing episode, you'll want around and you'll want to stay for the end, for a special treat, we wanted to remind you we have two live events. One in New York City, one in la. We'll be in New York City at Symphony Space on October 14th at 7pm and we are going to be telling juicy, never before told stories from our book Crush More. And then on October 16th, we'll be in downtown LA at Book Soup.
- [01:55]
Nava Kavilan
It's our first like live promotional tour for the book, but also because past guests, past favorite guest of ours, Nicole Byer will be interviewing us in LA and Phoebe Robinson in New York. So you know that they are funnier than we are, let's be honest. So this event is gonna be like extra funny so once in a lifetime opportunity. Don't miss it. Also today we are premiering an exclusive clip from our audiobook. Yes, there's an audiobook of Krushmore and this is from one of Penn's essays and I think you are gonna love it.
- [02:29]
Temby Locke
So.
- [02:29]
Nava Kavilan
So make sure you listen to the end so that you can catch this exclusive clip from the audiobook.
- [02:34]
Sophie Ansari
Speaking of authors, we have an amazing author on our show today, Temby Locke. You know her from her best selling memoir From Scratch, which was then adapted into a hit limited series by Netflix. I've watched it twice, so good. Yeah, she's not just a writer though. She actually Started off as an actor, and she's graced the screen on series like Eureka and Sliders and films like Unbowed and Dumb and Dumber 2.
- [03:01]
Nava Kavilan
Temby's newest project is her audiobook, Someday Now, a memoir of family reclaiming possibility and a breathtaking emotional summer adventure as she faces the empty nest and an uncharted new chapter in her own life. We get into all things Someday Now. We loved having TEMBY on the show. She's a light. You're gonna feel that light and that radiance. And we can't wait for you to listen to this episode. Temby, are you kind of aware of the framing of the show that we. We'll start with 12 year old, 11 year old, 12 year old, 10 BE and kind of like chart your trajectory to your current audiobook.
- [03:44]
Temby Locke
Ladies, ladies, ladies. I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're in for it. Because when you say 12 year old, I'm like, oh, goodness gracious. Oh, I was.
- [03:54]
Sophie Ansari
What does that bring up for you?
- [03:56]
Temby Locke
Oh, so many things. It was talk about a season of change. So 12, my dad remarried, I was changing schools. So I went to three different middle schools.
- [04:12]
Nava Kavilan
Oh, my gosh.
- [04:13]
David Ansari
Wow.
- [04:14]
Nava Kavilan
I actually can't imagine that.
- [04:15]
Temby Locke
No. I went to one school for fifth grade, another school for sixth grade, a different school for seventh grade, and a different school for eighth grade.
- [04:22]
Nava Kavilan
Oh, my gosh.
- [04:23]
Temby Locke
In that arc, you know, it was a lot of like, there's just a lot of change, like change in your social groups, change in the family dynamics, changing of homes. And so I think when you ask me about my 12 year old self, there's a little like, anxiety keeps up because I think I was really like, trying to hold on to something, you know, as like identities forming. And I also remember a lot of like, like code switching. And I don't even mean that in the cultural sense. I just mean like school to school, or mom's house to dad's, or, you know, like, oh, one day I'm gonna, you know, be preppy, the next day I'm gonna be punky. The next day I'm gonna be like, I was just really in an emergence and kind of at sea. But I also think it made me really key into stories during that time because books were the things where I was like, oh, other people have had, like, really interesting stories. And that's when I was really into theater. I'm sorry. I really got into theater also. It was during that season.
- [05:26]
Nava Kavilan
Was this all happening in Houston or Were you kind of in Houston?
- [05:30]
Temby Locke
I was in Houston, Texas. And Houston at that time was really like, cowboys, oil, you know, good old boy.
- [05:42]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah.
- [05:43]
Temby Locke
Kind of world. Like, it just was like a. It's. It's. It was not the Houston that it is today. And so as a, like a young black girl also moving through all of these different spaces, I was like. And I have this name that's South African. And I really just wanted to be like Megan or like, you know, some, like, where teachers could, like, see it on the roll call, know how to pronounce it, like, no, no extra eyes on me when they had to say my name. Why could my life not be that? So I journaled a lot during this time, too.
- [06:18]
Sophie Ansari
I'm curious what that did for your relationship with your sister Attica. Like, did it. I'm think I'm trying to imagine you moving from place to place, going from mom's dad to, I mean, Mom's house to Dad's house, like you said. Did that forge a really close bond or.
- [06:33]
Temby Locke
Yeah, it did. I mean, I can see now, like, I think that that is the season when she really. When we really became each other's kind of ride or die. Because we were the only constant in each other's day to day. You know, even though we went to different schools, at a certain point we, you know, we had the same home life at Mom's or we had the same home life at Dad's. And like, whatever happened to Dad's? When I went to Mom's, I could tell her we could talk about it, right. In a way that I didn't have any. Anyone else. And also, I think we just needed that to, like, laugh and let our imaginations run free. And so we would watch, like, certain movies at dad's house, which my mom was completely not interested in. And we'd be like, oh, my God, like, you know, and it was all. They were like, super. You know, dad, like, loved Planet of the Apes. Don't give me. Don't. Don't ask any questions. Ask no questions. No further questions. But he, like, loved watching that one. And I think it's particularly the episode, the one with Charlton Heston where there's like, the Statue of Liberty is like, on the sea and the whole world's destroyed.
- [07:37]
Nava Kavilan
Right.
- [07:38]
Temby Locke
Imagine sharing that with us. But I think he used it as a way, as a teaching tool to talk about society and government and all kinds of things. So Attic and I were in a formation of a shared, not only family experience, but also a shared kind of Creative aesthetic because we were in the same after school programs that were doing the same, same plays and then we, you know, watch the same movies and the same TV shows.
- [08:05]
Nava Kavilan
So I'm curious because both you and your sister are so creative, so talented, and honestly, quite successful. I'm curious about, like, what of that came from your parents or mentors, especially as you're moving around a lot. Like, were there adult figures who kind of nurtured that creativity or was it really the circumstances that brought it out?
- [08:24]
Temby Locke
Both, I think my parents knew. They always put us in some kind of creative after school program. Usually whatever was free, you know, and whatever was quick and like close to wherever they worked, that's where we were, right? And so there was that starting point. But I really wanna credit, I wanna shine a spotlight on my grandmother, my maternal grandmother, because she had summer custody for us and she had been a schoolteacher. And so she understood children, like in a real way. And she knew how to like pour in to us. And so she let us do things. Like we would wake up, we'd have breakfast tang for anybody who knows what tang is. We'd have like sugary water drink. So we'd be like sped up on sugar. And then she would be like, okay, you can play until 2 o' clock and you can have this room and do whatever you want, but at 2 o' clock you have to put it all back and come in, you know, for this. And so she gave us like guardrails, but also free rein. And so we were like in a room with like furniture. So we had to imagine what these places could be. And later, when I really got like in my angsty, later middle school, early high school years, and I was like acting out a little bit, I was doing the stuff. And there was some like, we need to rein tindy in a little bit, some collective parenting talks, right? And what that looked like was my grandmother, I got grounded, which I won't tell you the story. Cause it's too long of a story, but I got grounded. And my grandmother said, look, if you guys are gonna ground her, take her to the art store, tell her to get whatever she wants. But if she's gonna be home in her room, give her something to do. And so I have this outlet to paint, which, you know, and I painted these very moody, you know, kind of like morose, like, you know, things. But it was an outlet. And I think she knew that. And so I think the adults kind of understood whether they were, you know, truly, truly conscious of it or if it was just something intuitive like give these kids, give us, these two girls, space to let their minds roam. And I really am grateful for that because, you know, it did set us on a trajectory and it did forge a closeness.
- [10:52]
Sophie Ansari
That's incredible. That's such a good tip. I have a two year old now, and I think even like, of course, she's so young, I'm not gonna leave her in a room to do her own thing necessarily. But I do think it starts out in these very small moments of encouraging independent play and exploration. And I'm gonna just file that little tip away for when she's a teenager.
- [11:17]
Nava Kavilan
I love that. It also, I mean, not to go down this path too far. Too far down this path. And other people have said it better, but that really makes me think about the case for, like, boredom and what we're losing with, like, always being entertained or on a screen and like, that. There's a generation of young people who don't know what it's like to be in a room with like, nothing, no devices. Like, what are we losing with that?
- [11:40]
Temby Locke
I think we're losing a lot because, you know, yes, at the level of just like cognitive processing and creativity. Right. But also slowing down internally and being able to. To like, listen to yourself. Because even if you start off as I was, you know, on Tang, which like, sped up with sugar, you know, you are eventually gonna settle. Settle in. And I think that learning to be with oneself without stimuli, you know, and just really be with yourself. So giving someone a paintbrush and a canvas or a pen and paper, all of those things are saying, your experience is real and it's also worth. It has value and it's worth documenting, it's worth processing. And I just, I think that was a gift that I can see now, you know, that was given to us.
- [12:41]
Sophie Ansari
I just saw something recently about how memoirists are not necessarily experiencing life more intensely. It's just that they know how to document it and they know how to reflect on it and share it. And I think, I mean, that's kind of what you were just speaking to.
- [12:59]
Temby Locke
Yeah, Sophie. I mean, you're so right. I mean, before I was, you know, a memoir or even knew that I would write a book ever, I can see that there were all of these ways in my life where I was paying very close attention to detail. Some of it later became clearly was informed by my training as an actor. Right. That is, our job is to pay attention to the human experience, human behavior, how someone walks, the cadence in their voice, like, you know, the Pitch of the sound of their laughter, like, all of that. So we're paying close attention to details. And then I think, because I have been a lifelong journaler, journaling my entire life off and on, you know, not like an everyday thing. I think that they're details. It's just documenting details. Right. And there was photography. I loved photography, and I never really understood why, except I now know that it's more than just like, a cute selfie. Sometimes I'm really trying to, like, remember what I saw or, like, go back to it. I'm of the cut generation, where we, like, made, like, yearbooks and scrapbooks and all of, like, the stuff that you now do digitally or, like, you know, your Instagram or your Pinterest page is like your sort of online, you know, sort of collage of the. Of your life and the things that interest you. But when I was growing up, we did that in a very tactile way. And so I think you're right. As a memoirist, all of that raw material of the details of our intimate, lived experience then become the raw material that we shape and we craft into narrative that is more than just specific to us, but is universal to whoever might read it or listen to the book.
- [14:45]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah, it's an incredible skill. Before we move on to your memoirs and your work, we have a couple of classic questions that we ask every guest about this middle school time. The first one is if you could tell us a little bit about your first experiences of love or infatuation and then also heartbreak.
- [15:06]
Temby Locke
I will not name names.
- [15:08]
Nava Kavilan
Okay.
- [15:09]
Sophie Ansari
Sometimes people do. Sometimes people give a first and last.
- [15:12]
Temby Locke
I am not going there. I'm not on record doing that. I'm going to tell you, I was a girl who crushed hard, always, like. And I would dare to say I think my first crush might have been in kindergarten. A little boy taught me how to tie my shoes. And I thought I was, like, in love. Like, I could. He could home with me. Like, we were just gonna, like, it was everything. And we had, like, at that time, they would let kids, like, nap in kindergarten. And he had his mat next to mine for napping.
- [15:43]
Nava Kavilan
Meant to be.
- [15:43]
Temby Locke
I mean, right there, we're already domesticated. Right. I'm in kindergarten, so. But middle school. Oh, my goodness. So it was a lot of crushing from afar. It was just like hardcore crushing from afar. And really, I tried to get my locker reassigned that I could be close to because I thought proximity might breed. Yeah. Relationship. Who knows? The kid doesn't talk to me, but maybe. And so you Know, and nothing ever came of it, but I was very, very boy crazy. Very, very boy crazy. We had things called, like, slam books and all these things where you would write down, like, your crushes and all of that. So my first, like, real, though formal boyfriend relationship, I would say, was in the eighth grade. And it was very, you know, low key because I didn't. My sister was at the same school, and I didn't want her to go home and tell parents that, you know, a boyfriend. And it was sweet. But then I went to a different school, so it all, you know, went away. My first heartbreak, because we all remember the heartbreak stories. We all remember the heartbreak stories was liking someone thinking we were going steady in air quotes, only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.
- [17:14]
Sophie Ansari
Aw.
- [17:14]
Temby Locke
Like the classic thing you would see in a film. It was terrible. But I won't name his name because, you know.
- [17:24]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah, give him that. That gift.
- [17:26]
Nava Kavilan
Give him a little grace.
- [17:27]
Temby Locke
Look at him now.
- [17:28]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah, exactly. Oh, he is. He is. Definitely. Another question that we ask everyone is, do you have a particularly. Is there a memory that you think of and it makes you, like, cringe or you, like, laugh at, like, how awkward and embarrassing you were or the situation was?
- [17:44]
Temby Locke
So I planned out my outfits every Sunday.
- [17:47]
Nava Kavilan
Cute.
- [17:48]
Temby Locke
No, not cute.
- [17:49]
Nava Kavilan
For the whole week.
- [17:49]
Temby Locke
They were not cute? Oh, no, no. For the whole week.
- [17:52]
Nava Kavilan
Wow.
- [17:53]
Temby Locke
Okay. But I grew up in Texas, and everything was very matchy matchy. So my sister has a similar story of this, but, like, we literally would, like. Like, if you had, like, a pink collar, then you had to have, like, pink socks. So I basically walked out of the house looking like color blocks or, like, looking like. I was like, you know, I don't know, war of, like, geranimals. Like, everything was just matchy and strange and patterns.
- [18:22]
Nava Kavilan
I love it.
- [18:25]
Temby Locke
And I ended up one day at the Borghese makeup counter at the department store, and they had just come out with a new line of eyeshadows, and they gave you the instructions for how to do your eyeshadows. And I thought, well, let's take the pink that's in the sock and the pink that's in the color, and let's put that on the eye as well, and let's have a whole situation. And I took that whole situation, and I took a school photo.
- [18:54]
Nava Kavilan
Yes, it did.
- [18:55]
Temby Locke
So that is my. Like, I was so emboldened by my choices that I thought it would be good to document it.
- [19:02]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah, I love that. If you have that photo, we'd love to see it.
- [19:05]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah.
- [19:05]
Nava Kavilan
And send it to us.
- [19:07]
David Ansari
I love that.
- [19:07]
Nava Kavilan
That's so sweet. Really sweet. Really endearing.
- [19:13]
Sophie Ansari
And we'll be right back.
- [19:19]
David Ansari
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- [20:10]
Chelsea Clinton
Is it just me or are things actually really scary right now? In the world of public health, every day brings another confusing headline or yet again, a far fetched claim. Vaccines are somehow up for debate and parents are scrolling TikTok for medical advice. I'm Chelsea Clinton, an advocate, author, investor, teacher, and mom navigating this insane time right alongside you. I hope you'll join me on my new podcast, that Can't Be True, a show that sorts fact from fiction, especially on issues impacting our health. From Lemonada Media and the Clinton Foundation. That Can't Be True is out October 2nd.
- [20:49]
Nava Kavilan
Tell us about how you got to your kind of professional start. Like, what was your path to becoming actor, producer, writer? What came first? How did that all happen?
- [21:00]
Temby Locke
What came first is acting. I mean, and it's my first love and it's the thing I did as a kid. And like I said in these after school. And so when I left, so I studied art history in college and I was, and I was writing, but I never thought I would do anything with art history and I never thought I would be a writer in any way. I was like, I'm a performer. I want to be on stage. And so when I left college, soon thereafter I was on a, I had a small role in a soap opera in New York City and that role got me an agent. And then, you know, I'm off to Hollywood. And so there I really began my career as what they call a journeyman actor. And for listeners who really don't know what that is. It's like, you know, an actor who, like, is not. You don't have, like. They're not famous, but they're like. You would show up. They work enough to, like, pay the rent, keep the lights on, you know, and they don't have to have a day, a second job, right? That was kind of, what a journeyman, the height of a journeyman actor. And that's what I did for many, many, many years. And I loved, loved, loved it.
- [22:02]
Sophie Ansari
And.
- [22:05]
Temby Locke
When I. And I married along during that time, and I write about that from scratch. Asado, my late husband, and, you know, he's Italian, and we're in LA and everything's going well. And then when he was diagnosed, suddenly my acting career changed because for anyone listening who has either had an illness in their life or has been a caregiver, you know that well, for me, I put that first. And showing up in that space was more valuable to me at that point in my life and in my marriage than, like, I wanted to book every job in Hollywood, right? That was not the case. So I had to slow down. I had to slow down my career. And in that void, in that slowing down, I missed. I didn't know how to be creative. I was like, oh, what do I do if there's no director and no set and no scripts, no costume? What do I do with this energy that I have while I'm really home a lot? And that's when I started taking writing classes. And I took writing classes through UCLA extension. I did them online. And when I could get to a class in person, I would take one in person. And again, I'm not thinking I'm gonna be a writer one day. I literally was just trying to use writing as a way to. And my creativity to process a really large life experience. I was in my 30s, right, and I had an ill husband. And I thought, what do I do with this? And so that's really where writing began. And honestly, I kind of stayed in and out of classes and workshops for, like, almost a decade because I didn't have, like, big aspirations for it, and I was still acting. And it was after Sato passed and then some a year or so after that, that I really began to think, oh, my gosh, what have I been doing, right, with all this writing? And is there something here? And it was really my sister who said, you have a story in you. Wow. You need to write it. And if you don't write it, I'm not gonna speak to you.
- [24:10]
Chelsea Clinton
Wow.
- [24:11]
Nava Kavilan
Really Attica.
- [24:13]
Temby Locke
I like that she's my rider, and she sees something that I couldn't see and I wasn't. I don't think I had the bravery or the belief in myself. But the one thing about a loss that teaches many of us is that once you've had the hardest thing happened, you kind of. And I don't know if I can use, like, you know, curse words on the show. You kind of like, you don't give fucks. Like, you're kind of like, the worst has happened. What's the worst that could happen if I endeavor to try this thing that I've never done before? And so that what put me on the path to writing my book from scratch was really my own internal compass telling me that if I didn't endeavor to do it, I would suffer an additional grief. I wanted to write this down, and then it was like, how do I use all of the knowledge that I have as an actor and all of my creative sensibilities and my understanding of the human condition, and how do you build character and, oh, what does scene look like? And how do I craft all these journals and all of these writing prompts done in classes into a book? And that became From Scratch, and then.
- [25:28]
Sophie Ansari
From Scratch was then later turned into a Netflix series. As you're telling us the story, the question just keeps coming up in my mind, like, what was that like for you to see such a personal, intimate story of yours portrayed by other people? Of course you had a big hand in crafting the story and writing it, but I'm just curious what it was like for you in the process of making it, and then also once it came out. I've watched it twice through.
- [25:56]
Temby Locke
I love the show. Oh, thank you, Sophie. Thank you. I'm gonna tell you, I might spend seven lifetimes trying to be able to explain what this experience has been like, because it is so surreal. It is so all encompassing. It is so big. It is so beautiful. It's so. I feel this, like, reciprocity that's. It's not just with, like, viewers, but with everyone who made the show. And so the thing that, like, making it. Yeah. There were days when I was like, I cannot believe this is actually happening. How did I get here? And what. There's, like, you know, Zoe Saldania is, like, in clothes that, like, are inspiring. My clothes. What is actually happening? This is a mind. This is mind blowing, right? Yeah. And at the same time, I was like, wow. And I don't have to have the answers or know the why. I Just have to say yes and take the journey. And so I tried. I spent a lot of time when we were filming the series really surrendering to the big, unbelievable, magical, once in a lifetime, never shall it pass this way again type situation that it was. And then when it came out, I think in my brain, it's kind of like when you write a book, you know, you're doing it and you know, intellectually, someone will probably read this one day.
- [27:26]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah.
- [27:27]
Temby Locke
Kind of new, because obviously Netflix was involved. Like, this is actually gonna be on the platform and people will probably watch it. But I'm gonna tell you right now, no one prepares you for the moment when it all comes together. And I, I literally, like, I am so humbled by what was manifested. And then when it went live and everyone around the globe immediately, because it's it all in real time in, you know, 80 something hundred. And suddenly I first of all was in. In like deep prayer and gratitude to Sato, my late husband, because I felt him right there with me. Like, I get emotional even just telling you now, but I was like, I felt like his life and everything that he went through, I was like, I could see that it had added up through all the pain that there could still be beauty in it, because here were all of these people around the world that he would never knew, that never knew him, that didn't even know that it was based on a real story, were all saying things like, I wanna call my mom to talk to her, or, oh my gosh, this makes me wanna be a better wife or a better husband, or, oh, I've been thinking of this. And I thought that's what his life was about out. And so that was really like. Like I get chills thinking about it. It was beautiful.
- [29:03]
Nava Kavilan
I. I heard you say that. And then we'll move on to your new audiobook. But I heard you say that when you were writing from scratch, you really felt like you had to credit Saro as co writing it with you. And I would love to hear more about that. I definitely believe in life after death and that when our loved ones pass, they're still with us in a new way. So that really resonated with me.
- [29:23]
Temby Locke
Well, so here's the thing. Like, in this conversation, we've been talking about like all of these sort of like upstart moments, like when I became an actor and when I moved to New York and I'd done all these new things my whole life, my adult life, every big new thing I'd done, he'd been there for it. Choosing to move to LA to become an actor. Like, getting my first acting job. Like, oh, got my first movie job. He was always there. So it felt so weird to try to do a new big thing, I. E. Write a book and not say, oh, my God, I wish you were here so often. I started my writing process by actually writing to him. Like, I'd write a journal thing to him, or I'd, like, talk to him, or I'd, like. And I was trying to, in some way, shore myself up with. In and, like, fill my cup up with all of his love so that I felt strong enough to write it. Does that make sense? And often, because the book has so much food in it and it has so many recollections about, like, our life and things. I even found that, you know, I would often and cook, like, a dish that he loved and that we made together before I would write. Some of it was procrastination, for sure, but some of it was also just. I think I needed to anchor in to write our story. And to write the story, my remembrance of him, I needed to grab hold of all the parts of him that still remained alive for me. And that's why I say I feel like he was riding side saddle with me as I wrote that book.
- [30:54]
Nava Kavilan
That's beautiful. Sweet.
- [30:55]
Sophie Ansari
I'm curious, you know, we're gonna get to your new audiobook someday. Now, you say something in the audiobook. You talk about Sicily. You're going on this kind of, like, this college moon trip with your daughter. You talk about Sicily as, like, this place that's perfectly situated to, like, receive travelers and, you know, like, people who are strangers. And you kind of talk about it in this sort of spiritual way. And I was thinking about my. My parents actually live in Florence in Italy, and my parents have gone to Sicily many times. My mother is obsessed with Sicily. She loves it. I think it just has that effect on people.
- [31:35]
Temby Locke
It does.
- [31:36]
Sophie Ansari
And she has said similar things. I remember her calling me when she was in Sicily for the first time, talking about how she felt like there was just this special spiritual energy. And some of that is about, like, where it is situated, like, on, you know, certain types of rock. And I don't remember exactly what she does, you probably know, but it made me curious about your own relationship to spirituality. And what does that look like, if there is any.
- [32:06]
Temby Locke
Oh, this is such a great, great, great, great question. And thank you for pulling that forward out of the book because, you know, I've kind of, like, had to ask myself this question of, like, why does this place call to me?
- [32:19]
Sophie Ansari
You know?
- [32:20]
Temby Locke
And I have many answers for it. But when I began to write this book, and because I was returning there to write the book, I was really, like, focused on that question. And the answers that emerged for me as I began to not only just listen to my inner heart and sort of my own remembrances, but also listen to the place is that. That there is something beautifully naturally spiritual about Sicily. And I do not. I'm not someone who goes to church regularly. I grew up in and around the church. I consider myself a very spiritual person. But nature is like my conduit to spirit. And what I mean by that is like the generative force behind all that is right? And so when I find myself in a place like Sicily, where there literally is sun, wind, earth, sea, you have all of the natural elements coalescing on a volcanic rock that is sandwiched between Europe, Africa, the Middle East. Like, it is like, in this space that is vibrating at a certain kind of energy. And I. Only, for me, I can say that when I get there, I breathe a little deeper. Like, my shoulders relax just a little bit, and I say, what is that? And I think some of it is the natural element. And I think there's a lot of. You can connect to spirit easily in a place like Sicily. If it's just by sitting by the shore and listening to the waves, if it's going to a volcano and making you, for a moment contemplate the magma from the center of the earth that is spewing out. Right? I mean, it's like bananas. It's bananas. And suddenly your relationship as a human being to the cosmos, to nature, to the Earth itself, you can't help but have to engage it on some level and start asking some kind of questions, right? And so, for me, I find that my spirituality, I'm able to really explore it. And in this book, of course, I found that nature was that entry point for me in this season that I write about in the book.
- [34:45]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah, I think that's so relatable. When you talked about, like, the sea, the sand, the wind. I forget all the things you mentioned, but I thought immediately of Cape Town. I've only been once, but that's how I felt there, too. It's like it's all coalescing, all the elements, all of the nature is like. It's so strong.
- [35:07]
Temby Locke
So, so, so strong. And I think that places like that on our planet are very. That vibrate at that level, are very special, you know, and this is, like, independent of culture. Independent of the people who are there. I'm just literally talking at the level of the land and at the level of the topography and the geography and the, like, Earth history. It's beaut. And I think that, you know, that Sicily has.
- [35:33]
Nava Kavilan
That I was just going to observe in my, like, faith practice. We have this understanding of God as, like, the Creator, this unknowable essence that you can know through attributes. So, like, generosity, justice. But obviously, maybe the attribute that most of us associate with God is Creator. And we have this sense that, like, each one of us can also manifest these attributes, not to the same degree as God, but that each one of us will manifest these attributes, but we'll have core ones that will be, like, the most vibrant within us. And so I think within you, I can obviously see that, like, being a creator is really prominent. So it also makes sense to me that you would really connect with, like, a place where you can, like, see the creation. Like, that just makes a lot of sense. I think it resonates with who you are.
- [36:22]
Temby Locke
Yes, I take that in. I receive that, and it resonates with me. And I will also say that I do think you're right. I believe my faith in humanity and in spirit and in all that is, is that there is a piece of God, if you want to use that word, spirit, in all of us. There is a divine light within all of us. And that is really the guiding principle of how I move through the world and how the connective tissue I find in many faiths is that we are all seeking to be as closely connected to that light as possible. And in relation to that light, receiving it, emanating it, radiating it, sharing it. And so creativity is a way that we are sharing a light, Right, the light that we carry, but also hopefully the greater, bigger light.
- [37:21]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah, that's beautiful to me.
- [37:23]
Sophie Ansari
Beautifully put.
- [37:26]
Nava Kavilan
Stick around. We'll be right back.
- [37:35]
James Corden
Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations, full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:12]
Sophie Ansari
This is.
- [38:12]
Nava Kavilan
A sharp left turn, but your audiobook is really unique. It's doing something different, something I've never heard before. So I wondered if you could just share with our listeners why you chose that approach and just tell them a little bit what they can expect if they engage.
- [38:27]
Temby Locke
Yes. So what's new and kind of was really exciting for me as a creative person for this audiobook was to return to memoir first, that genre, but do it as an audio experience, an audio original written for the listener to be intimately told as a story so that you're just like, in this ride along, immersive experience with me as I bring the listener with me on this one summer that I take my family to Sicily, when everything is changing. Big inflection point. And what is unique about it is that I also chose to record the island. And what I mean by that is to record the sounds, original sounds, the voices of the language, of the sea as we talk about, of like the wind through the trees. Like, what is the, you know, the Vespas on the cobblestone streets? What do they sound like? And so I did all of this sound capture separate from my writing, and then I put them together. And so when you listen to this audiobook, what I hope it does is it is, yes, fully immersive, but it transports the listener to Sicily.
- [39:38]
Nava Kavilan
Right.
- [39:38]
Temby Locke
And so that they. Whether you've been there or you've not been there, but that the place come alive to you the way it comes alive for me. So I call it, like, almost like a double memoir. Like, it's the memoir, the story of, like, my family and what we're going through and all the things that are coming up. But it's also kind of. It's a memoir of this place at this moment in time. Because one of the things I do know about it and about life in general, is that that nothing is static. And although Sicily largely, in many ways, remains unchanged because people like it that way, but life is always changing. And in time, 10, 20 years from now, this. The place might not sound the exact same way. So this is a capture of a moment in time.
- [40:21]
Sophie Ansari
Beautiful, you say in the audiobook. Somewhere near the beginning, you said. I wrote it down. Some days, middle age brought the same emotional awkwardness I had felt in middle school, just with bills and a stiff back, which I thought was so funny and so perfect for Podcrushed. And I was curious what parallels you have seen. The awkwardness of adolescence and intimate life.
- [40:46]
Temby Locke
Well, I'm going to just speak. Can I just go bluntly here? Let's just start with the most obvious biological thing, hormones, is that the hormones surge upward and into the system, and they turn, take over, and they rearrange your thinking and how you move in the world. And your body gets awkward and so strange, and you don't know kind of what's going on. And then they decide to exit so quickly, overnight, with no warning. And you were like, wait, hold on. I thought we were friends. I thought you were here for me. And now the body's changing, the mind's changing, you're not sleeping well. So like, just at a biological level, there's. There's symmetry. At a biological level, there's symmetry.
- [41:31]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah.
- [41:31]
Temby Locke
And so from that follows, I think you are really asking yourself and investigating. In, like, adolescence, you're kind of imagining who you might be in the world. And I think when you get to midlife, you're reimagining who you might be. And I found that many of the things that I have, I turn to now, I go back and I look at, like, my middle school self, and it's like some of the same stuff I was interested in. But now I get as a full grown, like, woman, you know, to like, fully lean into and explore and deepen with intentionality. And so I think it's just a season of. They're both seasons of great change, but they're also seasons of great possibility. Right. And I think if we treat them with grace and in that way, I think, and we, like, just as society has really, like, acknowledged, like, okay, adolescence is its own developmental stage. I think, yes, midlife. But certainly when a family and when. If you've been a parent and the child leaves home, there is. It's a new season of life. And it takes time to get your C lit and to know kind of what's what and what's the family dynamic going to be. Like, who are you? Like, what's your new motherhood look like? What's the relationship with the child that you raised who's now, you know, an adult? Is someone. I heard someone say the other night, a cadalt. That was lovely. It was very cute.
- [43:08]
Nava Kavilan
I feel like a prominent theme in Someday now is renewal and sort of like reframing an experience that you could take as one, maybe negative or like, empty nesting and transmuting it to renewal. And I think that's so encouraging because often it's sort of like, you know, once you turn 40, like, start winding everything down. I think a lot of, like, a cultural message that we've gotten.
- [43:32]
Temby Locke
And I would tell you, I am here to lead the train.
- [43:36]
Nava Kavilan
Right.
- [43:36]
Temby Locke
I will lead us to the front lines. Of like, let's dispel that. Let's get rid of that. Let's just call that the old way. And the new way is like, this is a beautiful, positive, you know, ripe time that we can. That is full of potentiality and to define a whole season of life. Like, and by the way, if you're in your 40s, you might have another 40 years. That's all gonna just be empty.
- [44:01]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah, exactly.
- [44:03]
Temby Locke
True. Because I just kind of figured it out in my 30s. Like, yeah, I just kind of figured it out and then it just drops off a cliff like it makes no sense. And so we really. I refused. I rebuked defining my life by a negative or an absence or something that was limiting. And I really wanted to do that.
- [44:28]
Nava Kavilan
I love that.
- [44:29]
Temby Locke
And I really wanted to do the reframe and call it re nesting, not empty nesting. Because you are reimagining, redefining, retooling, and pouring into yourself in a new way, way in this season of life.
- [44:47]
Sophie Ansari
I'm sure that people have written about this specific experience of re nesting before, but I've never come across anything like that. And it was making me think about my own experience with my parents. I remember when my eldest brother went to college the day before we dropped him off because we all went. I was up late at night, we were at my grandmother's house, and I was chatting with my friends back home over the summer, and my dad just like, wandered out in the middle of the night into the living room crying. And I had only seen him cry once before, and it was when his father had passed away a few years prior. And it was just. It was so disorienting to me. I'd never seen anything like that. I think he was in a state of disorientation. You know, it was so confusing for him. But my parents have gone on to. One of the things I really admire about them is that they have really continued to live their life. I think they have re nested. They definitely do not consider themselves empty nesters. And I think, yeah, people are gonna find this so inspiring.
- [45:54]
Temby Locke
Thank you, Sophie. And really, I thank you. And I wanna just for anyone listening, point out that in your share, I think you said something really powerful that a parent who you hadn't seen cry or be emotional or only one time before, which was at the loss of their parents, that now their child was leaving, which was being experienced as an additional loss. And I do want to just say out loud that it is very normal to have an experience of some level of grief. Embedded within the experience, because it is an ending. The childhood as you know it, and the family unit as it was and as you created it and as you shaped it over me, it. That is ending. Something new is coming, but you don't know what that thing is yet. And in that moment, in that limnal, pivotal space, so much comes up. And if you have had loss, a pivotal loss, a primary loss in your life, often this season will magnetize that earlier loss and kind of dial it up a little bit. And I just want people. I just want to. I feel compelled to share that and say it out loud, because I. When it was coming up for me, I was like, why do I feel so discomfort? And why do I feel this grief? Like, I should just be happy she's finishing. She's like, I'm excited for her. And I was. And I am. And also, because many things can be true.
- [47:23]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah, I think that's important that you highlight that. You talk about starting a new tradition with your daughter Zoella on this trip and sending postcards to yourself back home on your travels. And I thought that was so sweet. And it made me wonder about. I mean, I think that's part of the process of changing this from empty nesting to re nesting probably is like, leaning into this new phase is to make it exciting, to make it, like, special and novel and start new traditions. And I'm curious, is that something that you are good at? Generally, as somebody who struggles to create traditions and stick to traditions? I find myself. Myself feeling, like, wistful about that, learning about that.
- [48:12]
Temby Locke
Oh, I. I think because of the things we start. We started this conversation talking about me going to four different schools and different houses. And so I think on some level, I've always craved ritual, and I've created. Craved tradition and craved that.
- [48:31]
Sophie Ansari
So.
- [48:31]
Temby Locke
And sometimes I was left alone to kind of find it for myself. But I will really say it was deep into my adult life, and it was when I became widowed that it really punctuated for me the value of ritual and tradition. One, I felt like I just really needed it for myself. But I also had a child who'd experienced a loss, and I needed to. Ritual gave us anchors. It gave us things that we could count on, and it made us agents in the thing that we wanted to create. And so that's when I really got serious about those kinds of practices. And the postcards really came about as, like, a fun thing we would do. I'd be like, oh, like, let's send a note back to ourselves, and it'll be waiting for us at the house when we get there, and we'll remember our time here, and we, you know, we still continue. I do that for my. Myself. It's just a fun thing to do. And often I'll send, like, a quote or something that's just a reminder. I also like postcards. I think they're cool. But I do think having a little bit of that in our lives is really valuable, particularly if you don't grow up in a faith tradition that has rituals, you know, or your family didn't do. You couldn't count on that same Christmas in the same place every year. You know, as an adult, we get to choose and bring consistency into our lives in very intentional ways that can be really lifting and fortifying and very connective. And so I say if there's something you, like, ritualize it.
- [50:10]
Nava Kavilan
Yeah.
- [50:11]
Temby Locke
Like, it's a thing.
- [50:12]
Nava Kavilan
I love that I'm very close with my mom. Passed away about a decade ago. I'm very close with my dad. And we lived together in the same city for the first time in, like, 20 years. And we have these little rituals that we've created. We never had rituals before, but we have these little rituals that we've created. And I found that, like, even if, like, last summer I was going through, like, a really. I felt like a betrayal, like, a very difficult situation. And I didn't ever talk to my dad about it. I just felt like he couldn't. It would have been overwhelming for him, but our little rituals, like knowing that I was going to go to his house and I knew exactly what we were going to do, and it really, like, was a big part of my healing process. And I wouldn't have considered that before, but it just, like, calms down my nervous system that I know exactly what's gonna happen, and it's something that we enjoy, and it's brought us so much joy to establish these little rituals together.
- [51:01]
Temby Locke
Absolutely. And it's like. It's. I think they're wonderful. And particularly, I really resonate with what you're saying with a parent and after a loss, like, you need that. The thing that you can count on and look forward to is just awesome.
- [51:17]
Sophie Ansari
I have one more question about Robert. It seems like from. In learning about your life, Robert has been so intentional in the role he plays in both your life and Zoella's life. And I saw there was a quote when you showed him from scratch, which you were quite nervous to do because it's your love story. It's a vulnerable thing to share with a New partner. He said, this is a gift to me because it's a template to your heart, which I've been. Oh, God, that is so, so sweet and so understanding. And I'm curious what you've learned about inviting and welcoming a new family member into the fold, specifically after loss, for anyone who's navigating those same waters.
- [52:05]
Temby Locke
Oh, my gosh, I could. I mean, I could first of all, talk about this for, like, so long, and we could have, like, whole podcasts, you know, on that and write a book on it, because it really is. It's a big deal. It's like not. Not a big deal. But also, you used the right word. You said intentional. And I think particularly for blended families, families blended after a loss, coming in to a family unit and seeking to meld together and build a new bridge of trust when you, you know, aren't from coming from the same starting point. And one of the things that, you know, Robert learned really early on is that for a child who's had loss, any perceived inconsistency can be perceived as another potential loss, which then can be an impediment to getting close. So you have to be consistent because you're saying, like, I'm gonna be here and I'm not policing. I'm not, you know, I just wanna be a presence. That's his words, a point of presence in your life. And that I really am grateful to him for being willing to show up in that way. You know, there are lots of, like, hard conversations and navigating it, and it's not always easy, but so many families in America, I think it's something like one in three, one in every third person on the street is in some form of a blended family. Either they or parents were divorced or they partnered with somebody who is divorced, like, in some way. It's a very common American experience, and it has its nuances. And I think making space for each person to have their own individual experience is really important, you know, and to, like, you know, I often felt like I was like the connective tissue between the two of them, and I wanted it to work out, like, so, so well, you know. And yet I also knew I had to give to it space because you can't force anything. You can hope for the highest and best. And for any, you know, families listening, I would just say, take your time, listen to the kids, do check ins, you know, really be willing to have honest conversations, which aren't always easy. Get a family therapist if you need a family therapist. Shout out to all the Family therapists out there. You know, I think these things are really, really important.
- [54:44]
Nava Kavilan
Temby, we have a closing question that we ask every guest, which is if you could go back to 12 year old Temby and say or do anything, what would you say?
- [54:56]
Temby Locke
What would you do? Oh, my gosh. I would tell 12 year old Temby, you're gonna have so much fun. You're gonna have fun. It's coming. You will have fun. And just don't forget that. Don't forget that. In the face of everything else, don't forget that. And I think that's what's on my heart to say.
- [55:18]
Nava Kavilan
I love that. Yeah, we've never gotten that answer.
- [55:21]
Sophie Ansari
Yeah.
- [55:21]
Temby Locke
Cause I think like 12, is that like cusp. When you're still like a kid and you still like no fun, but by the time you get 13, 14, and it's all like, oh, I gotta do well in school to get to college, and it's all. It becomes like the fun, you know, you lose that, like, I'm thinking of like the ripples in the lake, you know, just like that smooth flowing water of joy that you can access so easily as a kid. And it takes a while to get back to it, but you can come back to it. That's what I would say.
- [55:51]
Nava Kavilan
Beautiful. This was so lovely. You're. You're such a special person. I'm so honored that we got to spend time with you.
- [55:57]
Temby Locke
Thank you, Nav. I'm so honored, Sophie. Thank you so much. You guys. You guys ask great questions. I can't wait to thank you and shout out to your parents in Florence. Hello.
- [56:07]
Sophie Ansari
I know they moved there because my dad was working for unicef and UNICEF has a research center there. And my mom, after years of, you know, Pakistan, Albania, China, she said it's time we go to Florence. You can listen to Someday now, anywhere you get your audio. Audiobooks. And you can follow Tembilock online@Tembilock Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free, plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content. Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving. And you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.
- [57:22]
Temby Locke
Bye.
- [57:25]
Penn Badgley
The first week we started recording for Podcrushed in the spring of 2021. We began with what was supposed to be the fun part. If you're a day one that's a fan from Day one mom, you'll remember that every episode of season one included a real story from one of our listeners, narrated by me, iconic king with some punchy sound effects and music by our trusty engineer and music producer David. We were still kicking this idea around. Not sure how to best capture the middle school zeitgeist from the submissions we received received, but the point was undoubtedly to be funny. There were a few stories with a sobering gravity we loved, but stories of grief weren't how we believed we should introduce ourselves. We thought our listeners would want to laugh, Waiting for Nava, Sophie and David to arrive for our first recording session on an overcast early spring day in Los Angeles, I sat at the head of a very long wooden table. Archetypically long. Game of Thrones long. It was a halved tree trail trunk nestled in the grotto like succulent garden of a very strange and vibey house in Venice I was renting with my wife and our two boys. A healthy distance from Hollywood. I was nonetheless filming the third season of YOU in the middle of the pandemic before the vaccines came. It was a surreal and intense period, being so isolated with a newborn and an 11 year old, especially while the stringency of COVID protocols for my work demanded that we be a very conservative Covid family. My wife and I would every so often host a friend or two at Aragorn's Table in the garden evidently made for socially distant dining if not plotting a siege. Underneath the table was a spider colony, so we didn't sit at this table any other time. Never. Our Siberian Husky would often lie on it like a dead horse with his limbs sticking straight out, or perched sphinx like and regal with his legs crossed, always evoking Game of Thrones imagery. But no human being felt natural or casual sitting at this grand rotting spider infested outdoor cave table, preparing to push this super duper fun podcast of mine into existence. However, I found myself sitting down at the head with a transcendent gaze uncharacteristically free from any fear of spiders. I had just received news that struck me like lightning. The girl with whom I'd had my first real relationship, having dated for five of our teenage years, undoubtedly one of my closest friends from youth, had died at 33, ultimately from the effects of 20 years of alcohol abuse.
- [59:48]
Temby Locke
Story Pirates is the number one podcast for kids and families in the world and the newest addition to the Lemonada Media Network. We take stories written by real kids and turn them into sketch comedy and songs featuring professional actors, famous guests, and original music. So get ready to light up your kids imagination with a show that you'll also enjoy. The Story Pirates Podcast new season coming November 6th.