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- [00:00]
Chris Lambert
This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and sexual assault that will likely be.
- [00:06]
Stan Smart
Disturbing for some listeners.
- [00:08]
Chris Lambert
Listener discretion is advised.
- [00:16]
Stan Smart
Four years ago, I drove up to the Smart family home in Stockton to interview Stan and Denise Smart for the first time. Kristin's siblings, Matt and Lindsay, didn't know who I was yet and didn't participate in the original run of episodes. This summer, I finally sat down with all four of them, this time in my living room to discuss their thoughts and feelings about how the last 27 years have played out and how they're dealing with a resolution that's still something short of closure. This is my conversation with the Smart.
- [00:53]
Kristin Smart
Family, so I'll just talk about the trial a little bit. What was the hardest part of the trial for each of you?
- [01:02]
Denise Smart
Oh, yeah, it was interesting. We knew very little, my wife and I. I believe I'm correct on this regarding criminal justice and criminal justice is justice for the criminal and regarding their civil rights that you look out for and not for the deceased person or daughter. And the defense in hand. When I took the stand, I was accused of being the predator, of being threatening because I'm tall. When I went out to visit and try to dialogue with him. And then also, you know, since I put out posters regarding our missing daughter. The only thing is all of these things were very natural reaction from a father that has a missing daughter. I mean, there was nothing unusual there, but they tried to turn the tables and say I was responsible for my daughter being missing. So we learned a great deal. It was a long time to sit on hard benches, even with cushions. And the pre trial went many, many weeks. It seems like it was near four months and it's just more days. And I still question why there were two juries, one for Paul and one for Reuben. I think it would have been more cost effective and maybe more effective to have only one jury rather than two passing judgment. Both sides did not have quite the same information. There was a little bit of a difference or they were not able to hear everything.
- [02:40]
Matt Smart
Pretrial felt like it would never end. And having to listen to the defense team blame your daughter for her death and disappearance was extraordinarily painful. And know that they have the knowledge of what Paul has done in the past and continue to do until he was arrested. Having that knowledge and still protecting him was, was so hard to sit in the courtroom knowing that they had all the information, yet they chose to blame Kristen for her own disappearance.
- [03:21]
Lindsay Smart
Blatant, blatant policy to dehumanize Kristin. Whether it was Sanger or was music that was the policy. Dehumanize, dehumanize, dehumanize. About as vile as you could share was Messink saying, how many gallons of fluid would you expect to find? You don't quantify people in volumes of fluids. You don't absolutely tasteless. That's just a hideous, crappy way to practice law. Really is. I don't think he won over anyone made any friends when it was, well, how many gallons. We continue to fight for it because of individuals like that who are more than happy to take a dollar for any unthinkable cause. But I look at it like when I played water polo, I didn't play all that well. You splash water in the opponent's faces because it's all you got. There was a lot of splash in the water. There was a lot of white noise because when you got nothing, you got nothing. And they had nothing. But disparaging an individual who's already paid the ultimate price of death, I guess part of the process.
- [04:25]
Matt Smart
But the upside of that was seeing our team so effectively deal with the defense and watching the jurors and their intensity and their patience. And that's what really kept hope alive, that our prosecution team and the jurors were attentive and on, on task every day, and all we could do is just show up and be there. So in reality, we had the easiest job, they had the hard job, and in the end, their efforts saved many women from Paul Flores.
- [05:05]
Chris Lambert
The preliminary hearing was interesting, and that's when I realized, like, how much I hadn't processed. So I think I attended probably half of it. But the hardest part for me to listen to was in similarly with the actual trial, there was so many witnesses that came forward to talk about, like, essentially that the last party she was at, the last time they saw her from the lens of like 15 different people. This is what she did in her, like, now knowing last hours of her life from like 15 different perspectives or more. That was like wild. Like, imagine you lost someone you love and then you go Back to like 27 years earlier and find out what they did for, like the last day of their life through 15 different lenses was like a surreal experience. Like, hearing all those details that I never had known, you know, was like, helpful for closure, but also like, really, really hard to hear. Harder than the later half of the trial, which was all the evidence based information about, like, what, how she was likely murdered, what happened. It was almost harder to hear, like, all the specifics of those last 24 hours. So I Think through the prelim. Almost set me up so I could feel good enough to attend, like, the trial, the entirety of the trial, because I hadn't processed a lot, you know, like, I'd almost, like, put it in a box, put it away, and then I, like, open the box.
- [06:31]
Kristin Smart
Yeah.
- [06:31]
Lindsay Smart
The time away from your kids is time that you'll never get back. And if you stop and think about that, time is fleeting. I'm not going to be able to get that time back. But it's so important, as we told my kids, that I be able to be there for the truth of the matter, the substantive facts offered to fill in the blanks of things that spent 27 years wondering about. But other than the kids, really just watching the burden on. On your family, of day after day, the slow grind, whether it's on your sister or on your parents, it's indescribable. The whole thing was tough, but the toughest thing really was watching Reuben walk free.
- [07:17]
Denise Smart
It seems ludicrous to me that you could be the parent or someone hiding a person that has been murdered and only receive a sentence if found guilty of three years. And in California, maybe only serving a year and a half, which does not make sense to me at all. I'd like to have somebody explain to me how that is reasonable and fair. I. I don't believe you could do that. No matter how you look at it, if it happens to your family or your wife or your child, then you will see it differently. Losing a life of someone precious to you. And more time would be more reasonable.
- [07:58]
Matt Smart
25 years is less than what Kristen has lost. Kristen lost 27 years of her life. We lost 27 years of normalcy in our life. Where he lived for 27 years in the prime of his life, being able to do whatever he wanted to do.
- [08:20]
Kristin Smart
What are the moments that really stand out, you know, what do you remember along the way?
- [08:26]
Lindsay Smart
Thinking back to, you know, for example, the kitchen and receiving the first, you know, week or two of phone calls. You're, you know, a sophomore in high school, just, you know, trying to. Trying to do your own thing. From having a map up in the kitchen and pushpins to be able to show where tips have come in or calls have come in to where she might be. Could be to taking a trip to Cal Poly and watching Paul Flores at a 76 gas station run inside the office, lock himself in there and hop on the phone in the corner to declaring her death in, you know, 2000. I think it was 2001 or 2002. It's one of those things where it goes by really, really quick, but in those moments, it does stick with you.
- [09:12]
Chris Lambert
The memories that stand out to me over the years, I mean, my parents telling me they don't know where Kristen is. They had that conversation like our kitchen in Stockton. Another memory is writing in my journal when it had been a week and I was like scared and I wasn't very vocal with how I felt with other people. So that was like the most telling sign because I wrote my journal one week. And then another standout memory was like, I remember coming home from school once and there was like they were live filming. That was weird. Being in my house having lunch and they're filming the outside of our house. That's just like a standout memory. Also having not having my sister at our, my eighth grade graduation, obviously I went to Arizona State for the coaches and also because it was furthest away from my family. And I, I wanted to live my life. And I know they were nervous about me going to college. Then I went to the school that I always wanted to be at, which was ucla, but in between that, Arizona State and ucla, that's actually when the memorial happened for my sister. My mom didn't even tell me it was a memorial. She literally was like, we're going to Pismo beach for the weekend. And then I get there and my best friends Alana, Robin and Jacqueline were all there and I had no idea why they were there. And we were all wearing Hawaiian dresses and I remember taking pictures. And then the next thing I know and it almost was like a bad dream, the whole thing. That weekend, it's like we were in a church and it was like her memorial. I like couldn't process it and I'm just like non stop cry. And so that's probably what I was tricked into. I feel like we need a redo. So I know what I'm walking into. For like 20 plus years, I just didn't go here and, and I didn't hear about it because my parents didn't talk to me about it. Progress towards justice was like silence for that period of time which things were happening. And my mom didn't tell me the specifics, but they weren't significant. Mainly it was like a lot of silence for 20 years. I don't really think it came like, you know, having a significant moment wasn't until your podcast happened and how I heard about it. I was at a work off site and one of my former bosses of bosses was there and she's like, oh, I just heard. My friend told me about this amazing podcast, and I listened to it, and I didn't realize it was about your sister. And she was asking me all these questions because she knew probably more than me at that point in time. And it was interesting. I didn't realize that it was like that was the first time that other people felt the pain that I had, like, carried for so long about all the mishaps, you know, big changes in.
- [11:50]
Denise Smart
The last four years, Detective Clint Cole and others that have assisted have made a big difference. Along with the DA's office taking action now, it's been wonderful.
- [12:05]
Matt Smart
Four years ago, there was still little optimism, and that has changed over the last four years. It seems like the confluence of the efforts of Clint Cole and yourself. It's kind of a meeting of the minds when they say two heads are better than one. That reciprocity to work together built optimism. As you know, when I write to you, I always say there are no words that remains true to this day.
- [12:42]
Lindsay Smart
I remember the sheer excitement of my parents warming up to you and the idea of being able to rally support. But I think no one fully understood the groundswell of support, the sheer number of listeners, and what this would grow into, which ultimately ended up being one of the biggest breaks that Kristen's story could have gotten, and bringing quite literally millions of listeners to the forefront and getting individuals to be able to see the puzzle for the first time really in full in a way that was digestible and meaningful to them in their own home, their own pace. And as my parents presented it, was, hey, there's this guy, super nice, he's young. He drove by the famous billboard in front of the James R. Murphy Law office, really wants to help out. And if you want to participate, you can participate. So many folks over the years have wanted to write books and do movies and really enrich themselves, but I think the pureness in which you had approached Christian's case and not wanting to monetize it, but rather tell the story and to tell the story in a way that it hadn't been told, and it's magical when that sort of happens. And seeing the organic way that you and mom had met and seeing the results of that has to be just so rewarding. But for the family, as my parents call you, the fourth child, or to me, a brother, that's a really cool thing where I don't know if we would be where we are now with mom and dad alive, being able to have sat there through the prelim and the trial and gotten us to where we are without the work that you. I have a real appreciation for the art that you've crafted and being able to tell the story through a podcast. And I think Kristen as well, would really feel that her story was done justice with this podcast.
- [14:45]
Denise Smart
It'd be hard to add to that. So, you know, you've been able to bring Christ into life for millions of people, people that have listened in on the podcast. It's an ongoing story. It's not over with yet, as others and you have mentioned, and it'll be a while before there's resolution, although it'll never bring back our daughter. So we're missing her greatly, and that'll never change.
- [15:12]
Chris Lambert
When people. When you say, how many siblings do you have? I have two. I have a brother and a sister. Oh, how old's your sister? Well, she went missing. You know, like, every time someone asks you about your family, you decide, like, do I tell the truth or do I just, like, mention some of the family? Otherwise, I've got to get into this whole rabbit hole about, oh, my sister's missing. We pretty much know who did it, and nothing's happened. And for me, like, it was embarrassing that we didn't have justice, which I don't know if embarrassing the right word, but I was embarrassed that we had all these facts. Law enforcement didn't solve it right away, but here we are. Like, I could clearly describe without all these specific details what happened. And, like, there still was no justice. So. But she did. She. Well, see, I even say she disappeared, but she was murdered. But in my mind, at that point, she disappeared when I was about to have eighth grade graduation. And I just assumed, like, I had a journal, and I just assumed she went on maybe, like, a trip with her friends. But after a week went by that seemed a little bit odd because we talk all the time. Then a month went by. I remember being, like, pretty obviously still really sad. And at that point in time, I did write in my journal a lot. And every time I was like, miss you, Kristen. Or, come on, Kristen. Like, she was forever in my mind, like, in all my thoughts, and she still is. But it was. I, like, wrote it down so I could see it years ago, which was interesting to see. So, yeah, I changed everything. But we were guarded, like my mom said, or she protected us from the information so we could, like, live as normally as possible.
- [16:45]
Lindsay Smart
I think when you look at what. What my parents did is the same that any. Any parents would do, whether it's dad showing up at Ruben's house. To be able to have a chat. And from a leadership perspective, I think he did everything right. You know, he. He showed up, he parked on the opposite side of the street and attempted to have a conversation with the father of Paul Flores. But to have someone say, you know, better leave or I'm going to shoot you, it only raises the level of suspicion. So now that I have, you know, kids of my own, my wife and I would I do things different than mom or dad did? No. And I look at what my dad was able to do, holding down a full time job, constantly commuting down there, and somehow my parents, the family, were not torn apart, which is pretty remarkable. But I look with such a sense of pride that my dad was able to keep it together and mom was able to, you know, keep Lindsay and I life going as one would hope. They both had a huge task just trying to keep normal for us, man. Being a parent and looking back at what my parents went through wouldn't. Wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
- [17:57]
Kristin Smart
When did you sort of feel like the momentum was starting to finally pick back up again? Like, when do you. When do you remember thinking it's about to be solved or.
- [18:04]
Chris Lambert
Well, Addie, my youngest daughter, was born March 31, 2020, and around that time. That's so right before that, because I just remember hearing a lot of rumblings of things that could happen around Addie being born, and my mom saying, I don't think I can handle both a granddaughter and a lot of action at the same time. Which I'm like, bring it all on all the time. Let's get moving forward. So that's what I remember.
- [18:28]
Lindsay Smart
That's like the number of individuals from really all walks of life that in the most casual way connected to the smart family really started to come out of the woodwork when the podcast got out there in a way that I would have never predicted. And when people you haven't connected with for years are reaching out out of the blue, that's telling, because that tells you the story is getting to those it needs to get to. I always wanted that story to get in front of those fraternity members that were there that night, to get in front of those partygoers that were there that night to get in front of college students that had attended Cal Poly at that time, because those were the individuals that needed to come together to be able to give this case the weight that it needed to go to trial. And as we ultimately saw at the prelim, a lot of those folks came through and came through in a Big way. They got up there, they told the truth. It was all there. But it was literally there in boxes stored away in a storage locker. Whereas mom says if you were lucky, you know, once every couple months, you were checked in. Hey, we pulled a couple documents. Hey, we had a meeting. Hey, we had a coffee chat. The moment for me was. Was when friends and family were like, you gotta listen to this. You gotta listen to this. But I didn't want the memories that I have, you know, any different than they were. So I, you know, dabbled here, dabbled there, but at the end of the day, had so much life brought back to me and seeing how many other folks could connect to that story, you.
- [20:10]
Chris Lambert
Know, it took us, like. Or took me, like, 20 plus years to come back here. And I didn't come back here until they're, like, getting closer to arresting him. But then when I've been back here and, like, how welcoming the community is and, like, how thoughtful they are and, like, how caring, like, I feel like I have a love, a hate relationship with the community because it's like, the worst thing ever happened to my family and myself here. But then the community is so amazing, and there's so many amazing people that just, like, show up all the time who, you know, who've helped make this horrible thing or even this place that I didn't want to ever go to. Very welcoming. So, like, you know, my sister crossed paths with the worst person ever who's done the worst things and continue to do these horrible things. Luckily not doing horrible things now because he's in prison. But we would never. We would have never met you, which, you know, all you've had, like, the best intentions from the start. And I know you're gonna ask me about, like, what did I think when I heard they're doing a podcast? My mom, you know, for, like, I don't know, 25 years, said yes to everyone and any. Anyone willing to help her. And there wasn't a lot of people offering to help in the beginning. The. I don't know how much the community was there either in the beginning, probably because of the narrative around women at that point in time, if something happened to them. But she said yes to everyone. So my mom and my dad said yes to psychics. You know, I remember coming home from, like, high school, and there was, like, a psychic at our house, and I'm like, what is happening? Or coming home and the news is, like, videotaping our house, talking about my sister's case or literally anything they could do to get the attention or get direction or get guidance or get literally anything they could do to bring my sister home or, you know, my dad leaving on weekends and coming here looking for her. I remember seeing a newspaper, and on the front, it was a picture of my dad. I think he was looking in like it was a garbage runner or something. And it was like, stand smart. Looking for his daughter's remains. And they crossed paths with a lot of really great people. They also crossed paths with a lot of people with the wrong intentions. And so I know you're going to ask me, like, what did I think when I heard they're doing a podcast? They didn't even tell me because they said yes to so many things. I don't even think they. They definitely didn't tell me all the things they said yes to. I just see them and run into them, and had I known they were going to do it, I'd probably said because I. While my mom says yes to get all the help in the world, I put up like, 50 shields or like, I'm so gated that I would. I'm, like, reserved. And I'd probably say no to everything, you know, So I probably wouldn't have said go for it, you know, because.
- [22:45]
Lindsay Smart
It'S a really isolating thing to grow up where a family member is just no longer here. I mean, there's no. No greater conversation stopper for so many, because that's just not normal. People. People don't disappear. And growing up in that sort of environment, incredibly isolating. But all of a sudden, people were able to talk about it. People were able to engage because they were able to associate in a way that they hadn't previously. But it made for a very interesting childhood where you grew up very, very quickly.
- [23:16]
Chris Lambert
And my brother and I. I think you can, like, take two paths. You know, you can be depressed and do nothing, or you can be determined and do everything. And so we took the path of being determined and doing everything. So, like, I was, like, a 4.0 student. I. We both swam at Olympic trials. I was in high school when I saw an Olympic trials. I was, like, determined. I, like, worked harder in everything I did is probably a way of processing the grief. Like, I just tried harder, worked harder. And so I got a lot of accolades probably from, like, the horrible thing that happened. Instead, I, like, used it for the good. But in college, it was interesting because I went to ucla and there was this path that was called Rape Trail, and it led up to my dorm. It's like this hill, and there's these apartments, and, like, it's a trail, and that's what they call it. And you can get to your door, like, your apartment really quickly if you walk through the trail in the dark or, like, walk around. And I just would, like, walk through it. I don't know. I just wanted to get home. I just hoped it didn't happen to me. I still, like, lived my life, so I didn't, like, stop loving my life. Where my brother, he went to college in our hometown because, like, he probably didn't feel safe to leave, you know, and he went. He was a couple years older than me, so he went, you know, to school, to college sooner. Where for me, I was like, I have to get further away. I have to live my life. Where my mom, I know, was, like, having, obviously, a hard time. Now her daughter's leaving, and she would, like, call me every day, and we're, like, best friends. And I, like, ignored her. She had to be able to, like, let me go, you know? And so I knew I was, like, hurting her feelings. And all my best friends will call me, like, your mom's, like, crying, and I'm like, this is, like, a growth opportunity for her to, like, let go. So. But yeah, it's obviously changed my path.
- [24:58]
Kristin Smart
Do you remember for you personally the moment that it really sunk in for you that your sister was not a runaway and was not coming back home?
- [25:08]
Lindsay Smart
Going with your parents down to Cal Poly where you had left your sister and finding her makeup bag, finding her personal effects, everything there, coming to understand that, you know, dad went and got her only mode of transportation, her bike. That's really where to me, it became very real when the person's only mode of transportation, their bike, is still locked up. When their only mode of paying for anything, their wallet, their one credit card and their, you know, couple dollars in their wallet are sitting there on the desk. They only have the clothes on their back. You start to see those things. People don't disappear. They just don't. And early on, seeing the silence from the Flores family, the resolute silence that continued and continues today 27 years later. So telling. Think about that. Your sister's missing. The only suspect in their family is uncooperative. Taking the fifth, it left a really gut, wrenching feeling with you. Just eerie. But where it was finalized was. I remember the one week where my parents said, look, we're gonna have to declare her legally dead. And that was a real turning point for me because it was a legal formality, but it was an acknowledgement. Of her no longer being here.
- [26:31]
Kristin Smart
When I went up to Stockton that first time, my whole goal was, I want to know everything about Kristen. I want to know like, what music Kristen listened to. I want to like, see her old bedroom.
- [26:40]
Chris Lambert
Yeah.
- [26:41]
Kristin Smart
By the time I left Stockton, I felt like I had lost a friend.
- [26:44]
Chris Lambert
Right.
- [26:45]
Kristin Smart
I felt like I got to know Kristen so well that I almost forgot she wasn't around.
- [26:49]
Chris Lambert
Yeah.
- [26:50]
Kristin Smart
It was like we were all talking about somebody that we were about to go meet.
- [26:52]
Chris Lambert
Right? Yeah.
- [26:53]
Kristin Smart
And then she was the only one not there. She was the, the only one that didn't show up. And it was like. I think that was what really roped people in initially was like, they felt like they, they had a friend in Kristen and. And I did too. You know.
- [27:11]
Kenny Smart
I mean, I think the way you described it, like, like you lost a friend. I mean, I think my sister brought.
- [27:19]
Lindsay Smart
Like.
- [27:24]
Kenny Smart
She was just really warm, like, really warm and welcoming and caring. And like, I described her obviously in the trials, like my biggest cheerleader. So hearing that, I mean, it just reminds me of like, what I lost, you know, I mean, I didn't know who I was in 8th grade or like what I was doing or what was next, you know, but she was like always building me up, complimenting me. You know, you have movie star smile, beautiful teeth, you know, and like obviously being self deprecating on herself because she thought she had a gap in her teeth. She was, she was a movie star, you know, and like, while she had like so many accolades and like did so much, but like, what I remember all the small moments. I didn't want to go to swimming because Stockton gets really cold in the winter. It's like 32 degrees. But I don't know, somehow my parent, my mom and her motivated me to go. And like, and then I'm back and she made me like funfetti cake, which I like, loved, you know, or just like when I was at swim meets and when I was done racing or like got a new best time, she was like the first person there with a towel. You know, it wasn't even. My mom was my sister and like, she was a, she was a good athlete. My brother and I were just so competitive. And so it didn't matter that she, like, wasn't winning. Like we were winning. She was like, still our biggest fan. So, like, she wasn't like, she wasn't competitive. Like, we were, she was like our biggest supporter, you know. But I think the way you described her when you said she was the way, you know, like her Friends described her in my family, just like.
- [29:11]
Lindsay Smart
It.
- [29:11]
Kenny Smart
Made me feel like I had, like, a warm hug or something, you know?
- [29:16]
Kristin Smart
Tell me what your kids know about Kristen.
- [29:20]
Lindsay Smart
Kids are a lot more savvy than we give them credit for. They pick up on a lot of nuances, especially in ways that we don't want to share emotion. They do a wonderful job of reading emotion. And with our kids, it's no different. They are on top of it. And as much as we might try to hide that, you know, mommy and dad are going off to court to put the bad guy away, as we coined it. They knew if it was a good day or if it was a tough week or a tough month, and there's really no hiding it. And that's where I think, especially with our older child, Ella, it's being more open, honest, and transparent as you would with an adult. Hey, do you have any questions? Being able to address those rather than those questions going unanswered or answered by someone else. Sometimes you miss an opportunity to help your kids grow. As individuals and as parents, we can only screw them up, but if you're able to make them better, man, what an opportunity. So we've chosen to take the tact of really just trying to, you know, if the kids have questions, talking with them and encouraging them to ask questions and be curious. Because it's so important that especially when you're younger and you're crafting who you're going to become as an adult, that those important questions don't go unanswered. So we've had a lot of moments and a lot of deep discussions.
- [30:43]
Chris Lambert
Well, they know her name's Auntie Kristen. Her nickname's Critter Kenley. My oldest is very curious, though. If they truly knew all the specifics now, I think I'd have nightmares as a child. So I like, try to. I want them to know about their aunt and how amazing she was, but I also don't want them to know. Speaking of the devil. Hi, Kenny.
- [31:06]
Kristin Smart
You want to do an interview?
- [31:07]
Chris Lambert
Kenny, what do you know about your Auntie Kristin?
- [31:11]
Addie Smart
Well, I know that a lot of things have justice for Kristen on them because I have a guitar pick, and on the back of it, it says justice for Kristen. And a lot of other things that I've seen, like, rocks have, like, things that say justice for Kristen. Even signs. I know that she was a good woman and she died when she was 19. The man that killed Kristen is in jail now, and we want good things to happen to Kristen's spirit.
- [31:52]
Chris Lambert
Do you Say, I love Kristen.
- [31:54]
Addie Smart
I love Kristen.
- [31:57]
Kristin Smart
What do you know about Auntie Kristen?
- [31:59]
Addie Smart
She is smart and skilled. She is kind. And justice for Kristen.
- [32:08]
Lindsay Smart
Come on, girls, let's go get in the car.
- [32:09]
Denise Smart
We're gonna go to a park, and.
- [32:10]
Addie Smart
They'Re gonna make this, like, a podcast thing.
- [32:15]
Matt Smart
October 18th, when the jury's both came in to deliver their verdicts, and Paul's foreman gave the verdict first. And when they said guilty, I was. I couldn't. I couldn't believe my ears. And then when they said to the first degree, I just. My whole inside just, like, melted. I just couldn't believe. After 26 years, Kristin's voice had finally been heard, and the perpetrator was found guilty. There were just no words for that.
- [32:49]
Chris Lambert
Day when my brother sat next to me and my mom was on the other side, my dad was on the other side. And this is before they read the verdict. And we had our, like, arms linked together. And then when they said he was guilty, I just said, like, yes. And we, like, kind of squeezed our arms together because it was like the validation and the accountability. It was like we won something, but we didn't win anything. No one ever wants to be in a position to. To learn the murderer is now getting sentenced. You know, like, that's not a happy thought, but it was just like what we always had known was true. And there was, like. It was almost like validation.
- [33:25]
Lindsay Smart
And as I've told my own kids, it's no different than someone going up to the forest for their first time and standing there. And that moment is when you can hear the wind through the trees. That moment is when you can hear the rustling of the leaves on the ground. Those are tangible moments that can never be taken away from you. And when I look at this moment, this is something that can never be taken away from my parents. And to look where they are now, and even speaking to them last night, the world seems so much friendlier to them and just joyous. And that's the validation. That's the emphatic validation where the empathy is. Jury of the peers agrees with us in a meaningful, enduring way that's memorialized on the record. To see them experience that, for me personally, brought me such joy in knowing that in their lifetime, something big happened. How cool is this that mom and dad were able to be here, you know, today, and that today was, as, you know, October 18th of last year. We didn't know if they would be here. We didn't know if, you know, the right team would come together. Did it bring the Closure we were hoping for? No. But it brought us way closer to the closure that we're aiming for.
- [34:45]
Kristin Smart
Can you talk about the process of writing your victim impact letter and then what it was like to read them in the courtroom?
- [34:53]
Matt Smart
I'm not sure which was more difficult, reading it aloud or writing it. I needed to reflect on who we had lost and what she meant to us. And just thinking about the last day that she lived. I always. I would say for at least 18 years, maybe 19, I always told myself that it was an accident and that he was afraid to come forward because it was an accident. But as I wrote that letter and reflected on that, if it had been an accident and we were dealing with a normal person, he would have called for help, he would have called for an ambulance. But he chose to not value our daughter's life. And I think that was something that I just had to get into my letter, that that thought of her in her last moments of her life with someone like him was just very, very difficult. And I knew when I was writing it that my anger was building. And when I went to read it, I had to make a conscious decision that as I read it, I was not going to share my emotion with him. I did not want my emotion to go into his ears. I wanted him to hear some of my frustration, my fear, and my anger with having to live this life for 26 years knowing what I knew, and having so few people early on listen or value her life. Every human being deserves to be heard. And there were so many people who refused to listen to me, to listen to Kristen's voice. Reflecting on this time is really, really difficult. The longevity of 27 years that we never get back, 27 years that Kristen did not get to live, and yet there. There's no one accepting responsibility.
- [37:21]
Denise Smart
It was our daughter that died. And here we are to expose ourself, in other words, our innermost feelings and thoughts to the Flores family. And they have shown actually no. No interest at all in our daughter's death. And they know where she's at, her remains. They know Paul did it. And so it was difficult for me to write something to be read. I tried to follow the guidelines. The impact letter was to be written to the judge. And so I had written in two parts, but each time to reiterate to the judge that Paul should not be given an opportunity to have parole in the future, that he has damaged many, many lives, and he has taken the life of our daughter. And Paul did not face us. He faced the judge face forward. He had on a mask. He was allowed to wear a suit. And to think that he only received in first degree murder. 25 years to life, and hopefully it will be life. But I'm pleased that we made some progress. I think the Flores family there at somewhat of a loss. Although I don't think the father had very much in the way of feelings for the son and his situation, he was more concerned about his own. And somehow he slipped through the net of responsibility for having our daughter buried next to his home under the porch. That's a sad commentary, but the impact letters are important. I'm glad there's an opportunity for people to do those. It was a very emotional, emotional experience for me to get up there, especially after watching the video my wife had put together. We put together years ago, showing our daughter as a young girl and growing into a beautiful young woman and then disappearing from Cal Poly. And to get up there and to speak to that and how much we miss her is very, very difficult to do that. And it was real hard, especially after the video, because she was very much alive in the video. I was very, very impressed with what my daughter and son and my wife with what they shared, their emotions. You could not hide their emotions. The tone of the voice and the courtroom was very, very, very quiet. A great deal of impact both personally and for the court and the judge.
- [39:56]
Lindsay Smart
The ability to elaborate on those emotions that have been pent up, unspoken, but lived was. Was really like no other. And that was where I put a lot of thought and effort into what I want the theme to be. You know, as I was taught, you know, attending the University of the Pacific and writing essays, as we all do. The theme here was you made a choice. And that was really around. You made a choice to murder her. You made a choice to, you know, could not be more proud. Whether it was my wife reading her statement or my mother reading her statement or my dad or my sister, Just a remarkable group of individuals. And even one of Kristen's dear friends, Ann Marie, did such a nice job of highlighting 27 years of so many things so wrong. And really the opportunity that Paul had a quarter decade plus to go out there and be a benefit to society, not a cancer to society. But making the choices that he did was as reflective as it was growing up. Paul got another dui, still driving. Got another dui, still driving. But for us, knowing that he's off the streets and knowing that there's less chance over the next decade or two of there being more does, who, by the way, as my Sister and I have said, man, such strong individuals to come forth and help ensure that this cancer to society, this monster Paul Flores stays off the street. We tip our hats. We tip our hats.
- [41:38]
Matt Smart
And these heroic women who came forward to share their stories to help Kristen. Our hope would be that Los Angeles would look at San Luis Obispo and see that it is possible to move forward and give these women their own voices in a court of law. They each deserve that. It's a crime. And sexual assaults need to be treated as a crime. They are crimes and not a he said, she said. What do they think they're going to say? I feel extremely bad for these women who came to court as Jane does, shared their horrific stories and having the knowledge that there were many other women willing to come forward but were limited by the judge. I would hope to see that Los Angeles would value the life of these victims in Los Angeles to share their.
- [42:38]
Chris Lambert
Story, which were these two women. Their stories were so scarily similar. There's a pattern. And he's done this with other women. I want them to equally have justice. The defense attorney said, why didn't you ever come forward? Clearly this is not true. And they're like, no one would believe me. My sister got justice. But I would love for those Jane does to have justice. I'd also love for other women to equally come forward and like, let's get justice for that. Like, I feel for them. Like, I really want these women to get justice. So. So I'll do whatever I can to help get those women a voice.
- [43:10]
Kristin Smart
Let's talk about the concept of closure. What does closure look like for your family? What happens next?
- [43:18]
Lindsay Smart
Well, it's almost therapeutic to talk about it. So I appreciate you asking because closure, I mean, the definition of closure is to close the book. At least that's my interpretation, that the book is not closing anytime soon. I mean, I speak directly to the Flores family. The closure, the closing of the book is not happening anytime soon until Kristen is brought home and laid to rest. Of course I would want her here to carry on the legacy that she had set down of wanting to do international studies and study architecture and live a full life and have her own kids. And there's peace in the point of where we are, but there's not closure. And I'd love to get to a point where we, we could bring her home in my parents lifetime and lay her to rest and have a proper memorial service. Versus, as we had talked about earlier, all the services we've had where it's putting a Lei in the water, it's putting, you know, a wreath in the water. It's honoring, honoring an individual who's not here, but without a gravesite, without gravesite that is with a body in it, without her here, it's really hard to talk about closure other than it's something that feels so tangible, so close, but at the same time so far away.
- [44:50]
Matt Smart
So at this point, the 25 years to life, we are beyond grateful again to our team for, and the judge for this. But in the state of California, that was the maximum allowed punishment for first degree murder. But the reality of it is if he had kidnapped her and kept her in his home for a year and then released her, he would be in prison 25 years to life for just kidnapping her. But he not only kidnapped her, he took her life, he also murdered her. So we would like to see in the state of California an enhancement. When you murder someone and hide their body, there needs to be an enhancement to that punishment. Example is if you murder someone with a gun. I believe it's a 10 year enhancement. So instead of 25 years to life, it would be 35 years to life. So without this enhancement, at this point, there's no incentive for Paul or any other criminal like him to provide the information for a family to recover their child, the remains of their child. Sadly, we are in the unfortunate place that no parent would ever wish for. And our wish would be to bury Kristin in the presence of those who love and cherish her.
- [46:14]
Lindsay Smart
Finding a way to constructively change the laws, to add enhancement to sentencing where, you know, if people want to hang on to the body, great, but you know, you're going to do double the time, you're going to do another 10 years, another 15 years, another 20 years. And I think that's important because right now, as Chris Prevelle said in his closing statement, we're rewarding an individual or persons for keeping a body as the law stands right now. And I think for us, as much as we're focused on closure, it's as we're, we're focused on keeping that book open, honoring Kristen's legacy and finding a way to, to bring her home and.
- [46:50]
Chris Lambert
Lay her to rest, there has to be some incentive for them to speak up and share where the body is because they're continuing like they're torturing the family for a lifetime and they're holding on to this information and it, there's no incentive for them to share it. So I want there to be some incentive so that he can like do what's right for us as a family and bring her home. So finding a way for Paul to speak, some sort of incentive there, I'll do whatever I can to make that happen.
- [47:19]
Kristin Smart
What have you learned? What kind of advice can you give some family that's in your position with a missing family member or a murdered family member and a case that it feels like there's no movement on or it's not getting resolved? What are you supposed to do and what have you taken away from this that you could extol on other families?
- [47:39]
Lindsay Smart
What an important question. From day one where Kristen was 19 years old and the, you know, the national center for Missing and Exploited Children couldn't help, we've been the benefactor of a lot of frustration and privilege. And I say frustration first because for every win there's been so much frustration, so much loss, so much grieving, so much. But it's like the saying goes, work hard and be nice to people. We've overcome a lot of obstacles by just being nice people. You gotta find a way to have that resolve to get out the door and constantly be engaging that audience. And that audience is those that could help bring closure to you, whatever that might be, or bring that missing child home. There's not one particular piece of advice, but really it's getting out there at sharing the word and even driving here for this interview, I saw a digital billboard with a missing 16 year old. It's finding a way to make your story meaningful to the audience, much as you've done, Chris, in telling the story. It's finding a way to make it endearing and lasting. But it's really to never give up, to never lose faith and to get on, getting on. You're gonna be tired, you're gonna be exhausted. For me, just in a point of reflection, watching mom journal everything, watching mom being told by so many different people, so many different things. And something that she had talked about lately was where an individual had approached her and said, you know, they might have taken everything from you, but you can't allow that to get you down. And I think what she was getting at and processing through that was you've got to continue to live life but find that extra above and beyond energy and focus to just see it through. Because the reality is as much as we're blessed in 27 years to be where we are, she's still not home. So it's hard to give advice because it's not a perfect ending. It's part of the story, it's part of the journey, but it's not the ending.
- [49:59]
Stan Smart
I thought maybe at the end of this last episode to thank everybody by name who's helped.
- [50:04]
Kristin Smart
And I can't even for the people.
- [50:06]
Stan Smart
Who have helped in the last four years, I can't even add them up.
- [50:10]
Denise Smart
So 27 years, because this has been so long, 27 years out to where we're at now, we have so many people to thank that we can't really thank them. It's been a community effort, community of California and out of California, people assisting to resolve and find some justice for our daughter, for Kristin. And so we have a great deal of thanks to all of you who have assisted us in so many different ways. It may have seemed like a little item at the time, but it's become very powerful collectively working together. And this is why Chris Lambert's so special to us. He's helped bring many resources together and to see and study and review the background and for us to find some justice for our daughter.
- [51:05]
Lindsay Smart
World of thanks to all the individuals, innumerable individuals, but especially to my kids, my wife, my family, to all the jurists, to all of those in San Luis Obispo and really worldwide that have gotten us to this point, because it is. It's unthinkable what happened 27 years ago. But to be where we are, you know, given the circumstances, is pretty awesome.
- [51:28]
Matt Smart
I tried to stay in the car until, at Christian's Point to wait till you would leave. Now every time I leave you, I feel bad that I'm leaving because I feel like you're her guardian angel as well as our families. So you're stuck with us now.
- [51:47]
Denise Smart
And I think we've adopted you as a son into the family. And my wife's cheering that on over there and Chris is laughing. But anyway, and we've had a wonderful legal team and wonderful friends and close friends and made many more friends. I've been real impressed with how wonderful people have been down here, Central coast area for us and our family and our missing daughter. So a great deal of hugs and thanks and kisses out to all of you there. Thank you.
- [52:21]
Matt Smart
I feel honored every time someone mentions Kristen's name, that she is remembered, that she is loved by a larger community than we could ever have anticipated. She once said when she was 18, when she grew up, she wanted to travel the world. And, well, there are millions of people who know her name. And as Stan mentioned, our gratitude is so immense for this local community as well as all of those who have reached out to us and told us that Kristin's story has touched their life. And college students have said that the reminder to live safely on campus requires them to look out for each other. And if there is a gift in these 27 years, it is the friendships we've made and the friends who have stood by us and women who have come forward who have said, thank you.
- [53:26]
Denise Smart
You're very special to us. Love you.