Podcast Summary: Your Undivided Attention

Episode: What if we had fixed social media?

Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin (Center for Humane Technology)
Duration: Key discussion segments summarized

Episode Overview

This “Ask Us Anything” episode takes on the most frequently posed question to the Center for Humane Technology: “What do we actually do about social media?” Instead of theorizing about what might work, Tristan and Aza invite listeners into a thought experiment: Imagine we are already living in a world where we've comprehensively fixed social media. The episode explores, in vivid and practical detail, what changes—cultural, design, legal, and economic—led us there, how society feels in this alternate reality, and what lessons these imagined reforms offer for our real future.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Establishing the Thought Experiment ([00:45]-[02:03])

• Listener question: Max Berry from Canada asks whether escape from the addictive trap of algorithm-driven social media is even possible.
• Framing the challenge: Tristan and Aza describe the prevailing sense of inevitability and bleakness that paralyzes action in the current moment, and highlight the importance of articulating alternatives to envision real change.

2. Reimagining Social Media: Point-by-Point Solutions ([02:03]-[10:36])

Changing Algorithms and Attention Standards

• Algorithm reform:
  • Shift from division-seeking to consensus-building algorithms, inspired by Audrey Tang's “bridge ranking.”
  • Memorable moment: “We replaced the division seeking algorithms of social media with ones that rewarded unlikely consensus...” (Tristan, [02:41])
• Dopamine 'emission standards':
  • Just as there are emission standards for cars, apps are regulated to avoid hijacking users' attention.
  • “Using your phone didn't make you feel dysregulated...” (Tristan, [02:41])

Media Ecosystem and Legislation

• Solutions journalism subsidies:
  • Content is paired with real-life solutions to foster learned hopefulness.
  • “We began subsidizing solutions journalism so that every time you're on a feed and you saw a problem, it was contextualized with real life solutions...” (Aza, [03:30])
• Zoning for the Attention Economy:
  • Phones reclassified as “attention fiduciaries.”
  • “Just like we have zoning laws in cities... we realized that we needed an attention economy with a kid's zone, a sleeping zone, a residential zone..." (Tristan, [03:45])

Behavioral and Legal Interventions

• School and youth interventions:
  • Grassroots advocacy (e.g. “Moms Against Media Addiction”) leads to widespread bans of smartphones in schools, restoring attention spans and social connection.
  • “Laughter returned to the hallways, attention spans started to reverse...” (Tristan, [04:47])
• Trillion-dollar lawsuits:
  • reckoning with social harms caused by engagement-based algorithms results in Big-Tobacco-style lawsuits.
  • Proceeds fund digital literacy, local journalism, and “rehumanifying” social life.

Dating and Community Platforms

• Reimagining dating apps:
  • Companies must fund in-person events, using AI to connect matched users in real-world venues.
  • “There was a simple change to all these dating apps...which is they were forced to actually spend money to host real world events every week...” (Tristan, [06:34])
• Result:
  • In-person socialization reduces loneliness and online polarization.

Duty of Care and Healthy Tech

• Duty of care laws for tech:
  • Tech companies bear legal responsibility for upholding societal well-being in every domain they touch: childhood, information, ability to unplug.
  • “We realized you couldn't take over the world without caring for maintaining the life support functions of society...” (Aza, [07:10])
• Easy unplugging:
  • Platforms make going offline for periods of time frictionless—with catch-up summaries provided upon return.

Culture and Talent Shifts

• Training humane technologists:
  • Media representations (think “The West Wing” for politics) inspire young people to enter tech with a social impact focus.
• Changing the business model:
  • A ban on engagement-based models frees up innovation for real-world problem-solving.
  • “It freed up two generations of Silicon Valley’s most brilliant minds to go from getting people to click on ads to solving actual real world problems...” (Aza, [10:00])

National & Global Impact

• Competitive advantage for reformed societies:
  • Societies adopting humane tech reforms become more productive, less polarized and “out-compete” unregulated ones.
• Security and democracy:
  • Democratic societies learn to use tech consciously to rejuvenate themselves, mirroring how authoritarians use it for control.

3. Psychological and Societal Transformation ([12:25]-[14:29])

Guided Visualization

• Tristan leads listeners in imagining daily life with humane technology:
  • No autoplay videos or slot-machine mechanics.
  • Newsfeeds filled with actionable opportunities to connect with real communities.
  • Platforms nudge users towards in-person interaction and regular digital sabbaticals.
• Aza quotes:
  • “When I close my eyes and I imagine this world...I'm no longer seeing the worst of humanity. I'm starting to see consistently the best of humanity. And then instead of existential threat, I'm seeing existential hope.” ([13:00])

Systemic Shifts

• Recognition that even small changes can radically alter psychological and social realities:
  • “Just notice what happens in your nervous system...” (Tristan, [13:41])
  • “People just can see each other’s humanity. We are bridging our divides. We are spending more time in person as societies.” (Aza, [14:29])

4. What This Means for Tackling AI ([14:57]-[16:47])

• Having “solved” social media, society builds confidence to take on new technological challenges.
• Encouragement for listeners to imagine their own humane futures for AI—“We want all of you to be thinking about what your version of this narrative is and what would this narrative look like for AI?” (Tristan, [15:32])
• Notably, real-world progress is underway:
  • 30+ attorneys general suing Meta/Instagram,
  • Legislation like the Kids Online Safety Act,
  • Early steps at companies like X exploring “Bridge Rank,”
  • Signs that meaningful reform is possible when efforts are coordinated.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tristan Harris:
  • “We replaced the division seeking algorithms of social media with ones that rewarded unlikely consensus…” ([02:41])
  • “Phones were not just, you know, phones or products that we used. They were more like a GPS for our lives.” ([03:45])
  • "Once we reckoned with the total harm that all of us had caused... there was a trillion dollar lawsuit against the engagement based business model." ([05:09])
• Aza Raskin:
  • “We began subsidizing solutions journalism so that every time you're on a feed and you saw a problem, it was contextualized with real life solutions…” ([03:30])
  • “We realized you couldn't take over the world without caring for maintaining the life support functions of society…” ([07:10])
  • "It freed up two generations of Silicon Valley's most brilliant minds to go from getting people to click on ads to solving actual real world problems..." ([10:00])
  • “When I close my eyes and I imagine this world...I’m starting to see consistently the best of humanity. And then instead of existential threat, I’m seeing existential hope.” ([13:00])
• Collective Reflection:
  • "So a beautiful world our hearts know is possible isn’t nearly as far away as we think. If we can just start to see and feel into how a few changes like this could make a big difference.” (Tristan, [11:40])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Framing the episode/question: [00:45] – [02:03]
• Thought experiment opening: [02:03] – [02:41]
• Algorithm & dopamine reforms: [02:41] – [03:30]
• Legal & ecosystem changes: [03:30] – [05:10]
• Litigation and literacy: [05:10] – [06:33]
• Dating/Real-world connection: [06:34] – [07:10]
• Duty of care for tech: [07:10] – [08:47]
• Humane technologist culture: [08:47] – [10:00]
• Competing societies and global implications: [10:36] – [11:55]
• Meditation/visualization: [12:25] – [14:29]
• Applying lessons to AI: [14:57] – [16:47]

Episode Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is both imaginative and practical, blending playful speculation with systems thinking and policy savvy. Tristan and Aza’s tone is hopeful, direct, and occasionally wry—even as they ground their alternative reality in practical levers for change. The exercise offers encouragement: real fixes are conceivable, and perhaps not so far from reach if society can clearly envision and collaboratively pursue them.

Summary prepared for those who haven’t listened: this episode offers a vivid, step-by-step reimagining of a world where the deepest, most structural harms of social media have been remedied. Not just “what if”—but “what would it take, and what would it feel like?”