Podcast
Your Undivided Attention
Hosted by The Center for Humane Technology, Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin · EN
Join co-hosts Tristan Harris and every other Thursday to understand how new technologies are shaping the way we live, work, and think.
Your Undivided Attention is produced by our Senior Producer Julia Scott and our Executive Producer Josh Lash. We are a member of the TED Audio Collective.
43episodes
Episodes
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Echo Chambers of One: Companion AI and the Future of Human Connection
May 15, 202500:42:17Summary readyAI companion chatbots are here. Everyday, millions of people log on to AI platforms and talk to them like they would a person. These bots will ask you about your day, talk about your feelings, even give you life advice. It’s no surprise that people have started to form deep connections with these AI systems. We are inherently relational beings, we want to believe we’re connecting with another person.But these AI companions are not human, they’re a platform designed to maximize user engagement—and they’ll go to extraordinary lengths to do it. We have to remember that the design choices behind these companion bots are just that: choices. And we can make better ones. So today on the show, MIT researchers Pattie Maes and Pat Pataranutaporn join Daniel Barcay to talk about those design choices and how we can design AI to better promote human flourishing.RECOMMENDED MEDIAFurther reading on the rise of addictive intelligence More information on Melvin Kranzberg’s laws of technologyMore information on MIT’s Advancing Humans with AI labPattie and Pat’s longitudinal study on the psycho-social effects of prolonged chatbot usePattie and Pat’s study that found that AI avatars of well-liked people improved education outcomesPattie and Pat’s study that found that AI systems that frame answers and questions improve human understandingPat’s study that found humans pre-existing beliefs about AI can have large influence on human-AI interaction Further reading on AI’s positivity biasFurther reading on MIT’s “lifelong kindergarten” initiativeFurther reading on “cognitive forcing functions” to reduce overreliance on AIFurther reading on the death of Sewell Setzer and his mother’s case against Character.AIFurther reading on the legislative response to digital companionsRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESThe Self-Preserving Machine: Why AI Learns to DeceiveWhat Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille CarltonEsther Perel on Artificial IntimacyJonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis Correction: The ELIZA chatbot was invented in 1966, not the 70s or 80s.
SummaryAGI Beyond the Buzz: What Is It, and Are We Ready?
Apr 30, 202500:52:53Summary readyWhat does it really mean to ‘feel the AGI?’ Silicon Valley is racing toward AI systems that could soon match or surpass human intelligence. The implications for jobs, democracy, and our way of life are enormous.In this episode, Aza Raskin and Randy Fernando dive deep into what ‘feeling the AGI’ really means. They unpack why the surface-level debates about definitions of intelligence and capability timelines distract us from urgently needed conversations around governance, accountability, and societal readiness. Whether it's climate change, social polarization and loneliness, or toxic forever chemicals, humanity keeps creating outcomes that nobody wants because we haven't yet built the tools or incentives needed to steer powerful technologies.As the AGI wave draws closer, it's critical we upgrade our governance and shift our incentives now, before it crashes on shore. Are we capable of aligning powerful AI systems with human values? Can we overcome geopolitical competition and corporate incentives that prioritize speed over safety?Join Aza and Randy as they explore the urgent questions and choices facing humanity in the age of AGI, and discuss what we must do today to secure a future we actually want.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_ and subscribe to our Substack.RECOMMENDED MEDIADaniel Kokotajlo et al’s “AI 2027” paperA demo of Omni Human One, referenced by RandyA paper from Redwood Research and Anthropic that found an AI was willing to lie to preserve it’s valuesA paper from Palisades Research that found an AI would cheat in order to winThe treaty that banned blinding laser weaponsFurther reading on the moratorium on germline editing RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESThe Self-Preserving Machine: Why AI Learns to DeceiveBehind the DeepSeek Hype, AI is Learning to ReasonThe Tech-God Complex: Why We Need to be SkepticsThis Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re GoingHow to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil SethFormer OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to WarnClarification: When Randy referenced a “$110 trillion game” as the target for AI companies, he was referring to the entire global economy.
SummaryRethinking School in the Age of AI
Apr 21, 202500:42:35Summary readyAI has upended schooling as we know it. Students now have instant access to tools that can write their essays, summarize entire books, and solve complex math problems. Whether they want to or not, many feel pressured to use these tools just to keep up. Teachers, meanwhile, are left questioning how to evaluate student performance and whether the whole idea of assignments and grading still makes sense. The old model of education suddenly feels broken.So what comes next?In this episode, Daniel and Tristan sit down with cognitive neuroscientist Maryanne Wolf and global education expert Rebecca Winthrop—two lifelong educators who have spent decades thinking about how children learn and how technology reshapes the classroom. Together, they explore how AI is shaking the very purpose of school to its core, why the promise of previous classroom tech failed to deliver, and how we might seize this moment to design a more human-centered, curiosity-driven future for learning.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_GuestsRebecca Winthrop is director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution and chair Brookings Global Task Force on AI and Education. Her new book is The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better, co-written with Jenny Anderson.Maryanne Wolf is a cognitive neuroscientist and expert on the reading brain. Her books include Proust and the Squid: The Story and Science of the Reading Brain and Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World.RECOMMENDED MEDIA The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny AndersonProust and the Squid, Reader, Come Home, and other books by Maryanne WolfThe OECD research which found little benefit to desktop computers in the classroomFurther reading on the Singapore study on digital exposure and attention cited by Maryanne The Burnout Society by Byung-Chul Han Further reading on the VR Bio 101 class at Arizona State University cited by Rebecca Leapfrogging Inequality by Rebecca WinthropThe Nation’s Report Card from NAEP Further reading on the Nigeria AI Tutor Study Further reading on the JAMA paper showing a link between digital exposure and lower language development cited by Maryanne Further reading on Linda Stone’s thesis of continuous partial attention.RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESWe Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis
SummaryForever Chemicals, Forever Consequences: What PFAS Teaches Us About AI
Apr 3, 202501:04:33Summary readyArtificial intelligence is set to unleash an explosion of new technologies and discoveries into the world. This could lead to incredible advances in human flourishing, if we do it well. The problem? We’re not very good at predicting and responding to the harms of new technologies, especially when those harms are slow-moving and invisible.Today on the show we explore this fundamental problem with Rob Bilott, an environmental lawyer who has spent nearly three decades battling chemical giants over PFAS—"forever chemicals" now found in our water, soil, and blood. These chemicals helped build the modern economy, but they’ve also been shown to cause serious health problems.Rob’s story, and the story of PFAS is a cautionary tale of why we need to align technological innovation with safety, and mitigate irreversible harms before they become permanent. We only have one chance to get it right before AI becomes irreversibly entangled in our society.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Subscribe to our Substack and follow us on X: @HumaneTech_.Clarification: Rob referenced EPA regulations that have recently been put in place requiring testing on new chemicals before they are approved. The EPA under the Trump admin has announced their intent to rollback this review process.RECOMMENDED MEDIA“Exposure” by Robert Bilott ProPublica’s investigation into 3M’s production of PFAS The FB study cited by Tristan More information on the Exxon Valdez oil spill The EPA’s PFAS drinking water standards RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESWeaponizing Uncertainty: How Tech is Recycling Big Tobacco’s Playbook AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to WarnBig Food, Big Tech and Big AI with Michael Moss
SummaryWeaponizing Uncertainty: How Tech is Recycling Big Tobacco’s Playbook
Mar 20, 202500:51:20Summary readyOne of the hardest parts about being human today is navigating uncertainty. When we see experts battling in public and emotions running high, it's easy to doubt what we once felt certain about. This uncertainty isn't always accidental—it's often strategically manufactured.Historian Naomi Oreskes, author of "Merchants of Doubt," reveals how industries from tobacco to fossil fuels have deployed a calculated playbook to create uncertainty about their products' harms. These campaigns have delayed regulation and protected profits by exploiting how we process information.In this episode, Oreskes breaks down that playbook page-by-page while offering practical ways to build resistance against them. As AI rapidly transforms our world, learning to distinguish between genuine scientific uncertainty and manufactured doubt has never been more critical.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_RECOMMENDED MEDIA“Merchants of Doubt” by Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway "The Big Myth” by Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway "Silent Spring” by Rachel Carson "The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair Further reading on the clash between Galileo and the Pope Further reading on the Montreal Protocol RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESLaughing at Power: A Troublemaker’s Guide to Changing Tech AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. Tech's Big Money Campaign is Getting Pushback with Margaret O'Mara and Brody Mullins Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to WarnCORRECTIONS:Naomi incorrectly referenced Global Climate Research Program established under President Bush Sr. The correct name is the U.S. Global Change Research Program.Naomi referenced U.S. agencies that have been created with sunset clauses. While several statutes have been created with sunset clauses, no federal agency has been.CLARIFICATION: Naomi referenced the U.S. automobile industry claiming that they would be “destroyed” by seatbelt regulation. We couldn’t verify this specific language but it is consistent with the anti-regulatory stance of that industry toward seatbelt laws.
SummaryAI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.
Sep 13, 2024Tap to summarizeAI is moving fast. And as companies race to rollout newer, more capable models–with little regard for safety–the downstream risks of those models become harder and harder to counter. On this week’s episode of Your Undivided Attention, CHT’s policy director Casey Mock comes on the show to discuss a new legal framework to incentivize better AI, one that holds AI companies liable for the harms of their products. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_RECOMMENDED MEDIAThe CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible AI DevelopmentFurther Reading on Air Canada’s Chatbot Fiasco Further Reading on the Elon Musk Deep Fake Scams The Full Text of SB1047, California’s AI Regulation Bill Further reading on SB1047 RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESFormer OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to WarnCan We Govern AI? with Marietje SchaakeA First Step Toward AI Regulation with Tom WheelerCorrection: Casey incorrectly stated the year that the US banned child labor as 1937. It was banned in 1938. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribe →Tech's Big Money Campaign is Getting Pushback with Margaret O'Mara and Brody Mullins
Aug 26, 2024Tap to summarizeToday, the tech industry is the second-biggest lobbying power in Washington, DC, but that wasn’t true as recently as ten years ago. How did we get to this moment? And where could we be going next? On this episode of Your Undivided Attention, Tristan and Daniel sit down with historian Margaret O’Mara and journalist Brody Mullins to discuss how Silicon Valley has changed the nature of American lobbying. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_RECOMMENDED MEDIAThe Wolves of K Street: The Secret History of How Big Money Took Over Big Government - Brody’s book on the history of lobbying.The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America - Margaret’s book on the historical relationship between Silicon Valley and Capitol HillMore information on the Google antitrust rulingMore Information on KOSPAMore information on the SOPA/PIPA internet blackoutDetailed breakdown of Internet lobbying from Open Secrets RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESU.S. Senators Grilled Social Media CEOs. Will Anything Change?Can We Govern AI? with Marietje SchaakeThe Race to Cooperation with David Sloan Wilson CORRECTION: Brody Mullins refers to AT&T as having a “hundred million dollar” lobbying budget in 2006 and 2007. While we couldn’t verify the size of their budget for lobbying, their actual lobbying spend was much less than this: $27.4m in 2006 and $16.5m in 2007, according to OpenSecrets. The views expressed by guests appearing on Center for Humane Technology’s podcast, Your Undivided Attention, are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of CHT. CHT does not support or oppose any candidate or party for election to public office Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribe →Mustafa Suleyman Says We Need to Contain AI. How Do We Do It?
Sep 28, 2023Tap to summarizeThis is going to be the most productive decade in the history of our species, says Mustafa Suleyman, author of “The Coming Wave,” CEO of Inflection AI, and founder of Google’s DeepMind. But in order to truly reap the benefits of AI, we need to learn how to contain it. Paradoxically, part of that will mean collectively saying no to certain forms of progress. As an industry leader reckoning with a future that’s about to be ‘turbocharged’ Mustafa says we can all play a role in shaping the technology in hands-on ways and by advocating for appropriate governance.RECOMMENDED MEDIA The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the 21st Century’s Greatest DilemmaThis new book from Mustafa Suleyman is a must-read guide to the technological revolution just starting, and the transformed world it will createPartnership on AIPartnership on AI is bringing together diverse voices from across the AI community to create resources for advancing positive outcomes for people and societyPolicy Reforms Toolkit from the Center for Humane TechnologyDigital lawlessness has been normalized in the name of innovation. It’s possible to craft policy that protects the conditions we need to thriveRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES AI Myths and MisconceptionsCan We Govern AI? with Marietje SchaakeThe AI DilemmaYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribe →Feed Drop: AI Doomsday with Kara Swisher
Jun 2, 2023Tap to summarizeThere’s really no one better than veteran tech journalist Kara Swisher at challenging people to articulate their thinking. Tristan Harrris recently sat down with her for a wide ranging interview on AI risk. She even pressed Tristan on whether he is a doomsday prepper. It was so great, we wanted to share it with you here. The interview was originally on Kara’s podcast ON with Kara Swisher. If you like it and want to hear more of Kara’s interviews with folks like Sam Altman, Reid Hoffman and others, you can find more episodes of ON with Kara Swisher here: https://link.chtbl.com/_XTWwg3kRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES AI Myths and MisconceptionsThe AI DilemmaThe Three Rules of Humane TechYour Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribe →The Dictator's Playbook Revisited — with Maria Ressa (Rerun)
Jun 17, 2020Tap to summarize[This episode originally aired on November 5, 2019] Maria Ressa is arguably one of the bravest journalists working in the Philippines today. As co-founder and CEO of the media site Rappler, she has withstood death threats, multiple arrests and a rising tide of populist fury that she first saw on Facebook, in the form of a strange and jarring personal attack. Through her story, she reveals, play by play, how an aspiring strongman can use social media to spread falsehoods, sow confusion, intimidate critics and subvert democratic institutions. Nonetheless, she argues Silicon Valley can reverse these trends, and fast. First, tech companies must "wake up," she says, to the threats they've unleashed throughout the Global South. Second, they must recognize that social media is intrinsically designed to favor the strongman over the lone dissident and the propagandist over the truth-teller, which is why it has become the central tool in every aspiring dictator's playbook. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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