Jillian Michaels - Episode #406

Summary

YOUR WELCOME with Michael Malice
Episode #406: Jillian Michaels
Date: March 11, 2026
PodcastOne

---

Episode Overview

Michael Malice sits down with fitness and media icon Jillian Michaels for a lively, wide-ranging conversation. The episode blends Malice's signature irreverent humor with frank explorations of public persona, the culture of fitness, America's food system, and the manipulations behind chronic health crises. Together, they dig into the myths of reality TV, evolving health norms, and dark forces behind the American obesity epidemic, while swapping stories about North Korea, celebrity encounters, and the nuances of “teasing” in relationships.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jillian’s Public Persona and Height Myths

[02:07–05:15]

• Expectation vs. Reality: Michaels discusses how people expect her to be much taller and how she navigates the gap between her on-screen reputation (as tough or even intimidating) and her real-life, more bubbly and humble demeanor.
• Short-Statured Power: She references icons like Madonna and Kim Kardashian being “tiny” too, relating to how short-statured women often feel pressure to overcompensate.

“They think I'm going to be taller...I'm like a short little troll, which I've grown accustomed to.”
— Jillian Michaels, [02:27]

“You are really little, so it's really, really cute. And I'm little, too...it's like Gap Kids. So it's like this little lady who everyone is scared of. It's so funny. It's like a reverse Godzilla.”
— Michael Malice, [04:19]

---

2. Experience, Knowledge, and Stereotypes in Media

[05:22–07:21]

• Malice applauds Jillian’s surprising breadth of knowledge and compares it to Dr. Drew's. Jillian reveals her sensitive, thoughtful nature contrasts with her harsh TV edit.
• They riff about cat names, wife’s eccentric pet naming, and jokingly connect pet names to pop culture and Japanese obsessions.

---

3. Travel Stories: Japan and North Korea

[09:22–14:59]

• Japanese Jacket Story: Malice recounts buying a kanji-embroidered jacket meaning “swastika” (the Buddhist symbol for good luck), illuminating cultural differences and the perils of misinterpretation.
• North Korea Experience: Malice details a visit to North Korea for research, discusses the country’s rigid caste system, and the staged nature of sightseeing tours.
• Jillian expresses her horror and curiosity at visiting North Korea, and the conversation ponders how regimes manufacture realities.

“North Korea...they interviewed every single person in the country, and they assigned you, based on your family up to second cousins, a level of the caste system...This determines everything about your life, including where you live.”
— Michael Malice, [12:52]

---

4. Sense of Humor, Teasing, and Relationship Dynamics

[15:03–19:10]

• Jillian and Michael debate teasing as affection, referencing Dr. Drew’s idea that “one in five people” simply can’t perceive humor.
• Jillian shares personal anecdotes about how teasing plays out differently with her ex, her children, and her parents, underlining the importance of adapting humor in relationships.

“My whole life, that was always a sign of affection...But there are some people...who just, none of it is funny.”
— Jillian Michaels, [15:03 & 15:56]

---

5. Celebrity Encounters & Litmus Test for Humor

[23:31–32:14]

• Malice shares his strategy for testing new acquaintances’ senses of humor with a borderline or inappropriate joke.
• Anecdotes include a joke with Michael Shellenberger and run-ins with deadpan celebrities like Ashton Kutcher and Kathy Griffin. Jillian adds her own story about being maligned by Griffin on My Life on the D-List, providing a look behind the scenes of reality TV egos.

“I run...Whenever I meet someone—I throw out a slightly inappropriate comment...If they laugh, that's even better. But if they're like, [disapproving], I'm like, all right, not gonna have time for you.”
— Michael Malice, [23:31]

---

6. Reality TV, “The Biggest Loser”, and Media Spin

[33:13–36:20]

• Malice asks about frustrations on The Biggest Loser. Jillian explains her biggest challenge was lack of narrative control—editors shaped her into a “Darth Vader”/villain figure, masking her actual dynamic with contestants.
• She laments how TV’s priorities (drama, archetypes) can distort both public perception and the message about health.

“When your entire public persona is affected by a group of people in an editing room who don't really like you and want to create a Darth Vader kind of character, it's a bit frustrating...”
— Jillian Michaels, [34:10]

---

7. The American Food System and the Sickness Syndicate

[37:37–49:27]

• Obesity & Chronic Illness Crisis: Inspired by Robert Kennedy Jr.’s advocacy, Jillian explains why our health crisis is not genetic nor individual failing, but the engineered result of collusion between Big Agriculture, Big Food, Big Pharma, and policymakers.
• History & Policy: She traces government subsidization of corn, wheat, and soy; mechanization post-WWII; and how surplus grains led to processed food ubiquity.
• Manipulation at Every Level: Jillian outlines how every part of the food system (from product formulation to advertising, policymaking, and educational guidelines) is designed to keep Americans addicted, overweight, and sick—stretching even into developing nations via trade “aid”.

“None of this is an accident. None of this is genetic. None of this is a personal failing. This is all by design.”
— Jillian Michaels, [38:53]

“It is diabolical. There's procurement contracts...the grocery store is a behavioral lab...It is all a very deliberate and specific science experiment.”
— Jillian Michaels, [43:05]

---

8. The Deception of “Health at Every Size” & Nutrition Policy

[46:45–50:43]

• Jillian argues the “health at any size” movement was co-opted by food interests to perpetuate unhealthy norms, with advocacy groups and credentialed professionals bought off to support processed food use and stymie reform.

“That, by the way, was co-opted by Big Food...They bought all these registered dietitians...and then they put it through social media and legacy media...”
— Jillian Michaels, [46:49]

• They discuss how incremental improvements (e.g., soda bans for SNAP benefits, new school lunch guidelines) are fragile and subject to rollback, necessitating broader public awareness and policy change.

---

9. Broader Health Hazards: Processed Food, Vaping, Chemical Exposure

[53:22–57:13]

• Rapid increase in early-onset cancers, obesity, and chronic conditions is discussed. Jillian emphasizes cumulative exposure to chemicals—not just in food, but also in air, water, and personal care products.
• They debunk the supposed safety of vaping, linking it to engineered addiction and parallel tactics from the processed food industry.
• Malice shares his own “health hack” (switching from antiperspirant to deodorant), and Jillian explains why aluminum-based products (and widespread pollution) are more insidious than people realize.

“It is the cumulative effect. It's like death by a thousand cuts...The cumulative load of all of these toxins is just devastating.”
— Jillian Michaels, [55:02]

---

10. Memorable Moments & Closing Thoughts

[59:54–60:16]

• Jillian says the most interesting part was hearing about Michael’s North Korea trip—hinting their off-mic conversation will continue over wine.

---

Notable Quotes

• “My crushing disappointment is I’m not 5’8, but my personality’s towering!”
  — Jillian Michaels, [02:40]
• “How are you going to have a relationship with someone like that? I’m not even kidding.”
  — Michael Malice, [16:21]
• “The grocery store is a behavioral lab where everything is located and where kids are going to see it...It is diabolical.”
  — Jillian Michaels, [43:05]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jillian’s reputation, height & persona: [02:07–05:15]
• Cat-naming, pet banter: [06:42–08:47]
• Jacket & swastika in Japan: [09:22–11:20]
• Malice’s North Korea travel: [11:23–14:59]
• Teasing, humor, relationships: [15:03–19:10]
• Testing humor with celebrities: [23:31–32:14]
• Biggest Loser frustrations: [33:13–36:20]
• Food system exposé: [37:37–49:27]
• Co-opted nutrition science & policy: [46:45–50:43]
• Vaping, products, chemical loads: [53:22–57:13]
• Cancer rise, cumulative toxins: [55:02–57:40]
• Closing: Favorite moment: [60:03–60:16]

---

Episode Tone & Style

The episode is casual, snarky, and filled with rapid-fire banter. Malice’s contrarian, playful tone meets Jillian’s direct, witty, sometimes impassioned critique of systemic issues, making for an entertaining yet deeply informative dialogue. Both hosts oscillate between offbeat humor, personal anecdotes, and serious warnings about America’s health and culture.

---

For Listeners Who Missed It

This was a podcast where Malice’s comedic sensibility and Jillian Michaels’ media-savvy candor combined for sharp social observations—moving seamlessly from personal quirks, media myths, and health industry corruption to the granular strategies that shape what America (and the world) eats. If you want humor with your hard truths, this is your episode.

Transcript

[Jillian Michaels]

Why have I asked my h vac guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? I was so amazed at how he replaced our air ducts, I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube.

[Michael Malice]

I think we should call a Dr. Angie. The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

[Commercial Announcer]

when you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Michael Malice]

Folks, my new graphic novel, a Tall tale of the old Westland New wave is out for pre order now. I've been working on this for 25 years. It's a dark comedy with a shiny exterior. Please check it [e-mail]. Good afternoon. Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. Boy, this is a guest I did not know I would ever have. But we met and we hit it off very well, as us lesbians tend to do. My guest this week is Jillian Michaels, fitness and media personality. People I think first got to know you from the Biggest Loser. Now you're a podcaster and gotten into the political space. You've been around for decades as like a media personality. I've got a few.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're dating me, Michael. You've been around since the dark Ages, Medieval times, pre history.

[Michael Malice]

I have a little type of trolling I do which is giving people sincere compliments and they don't know how to handle it so they get uncomfortable. So we're gonna do that with you in a second. But my first question is, what do you know, what kind of reputation you have? Like, what do people think you're gonna be like when they meet you?

[Jillian Michaels]

They think I'm going to be taller. I think that's, that's the one I get the most, is I thought you'd be taller. To which I have learned to respond that I in fact have a towering personality. But literally right upon meeting me, they're like, you're kind of short little troll, which I've grown accustomed to. What are you going to do? And then I think it depends on the person. So the people, of course, that have grown up Hating me are often surprised I'm not as bad as they thought. And the people that have grown up loving me are generally the ones that say, I think you'd be taller. Which I guess means I'm a disappointment on some level.

[Michael Malice]

Well, I thought you would be like a drill sergeant

[Jillian Michaels]

real at dinner.

[Michael Malice]

Well, I don't. The thing is, I. I think you'd agree. I know a lot of people in the fitness space, and it takes a certain kind of mindset, and everyone has a little bit of a screw loose because that fitness face is often people compensating for, like this, for some aspect that didn't go right in their lives. And this is like, one part of their life that they can control and excel in and maybe sweep the other stuff under the rug. I think there's like, if you're gonna. Not you, but, like, guys, you're spending at all the time at the gym. Like, it's not really about the gym. Like, there's something else, you know, going on there. The. At a certain point, the benefits really, the cost that way, the benefits pretty quick. It's not that hard to get into decent shape.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Michael Malice]

But the thing is, you're really not at all. You're really kind of bubbly and sweet and, like, humble. And I was going to say also, you are really little, so it's really, really cute. And I'm little, too, but it's just like this.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's just like you're really little. You're like, exceptionally little.

[Michael Malice]

It's like Gap Kids. So it's like this little lady who is who everyone is scared of. It's so funny. It's like a reverse Godzilla, you know?

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, I used to love the fact that Madonna is also tiny. I think she's 5:2. Kim Kardashian, I recently learned, is tiny. And it made me feel better because these are women. I always thought they would be 5, 7, 5, 8. I was like, at least I'm not alone in this category. You have to wonder, though, if you're not overcompensating for the height thing a little bit. Yeah, you kind of become that yappy little chihuahua. And I've tried in my older age to do the whole speak softly, carry the big stick thing, but nobody takes. Nobody takes it seriously when you're two feet tall. So I walk. I walk a fine line in my. In my communication skills, but I've never been described as bubbly. Michael, you are the first.

[Michael Malice]

Is that true?

[Jillian Michaels]

I think you might bring it out of me. I think I Just, I don't know, I crushed out on you right away. That might be it. I think that's it.

[Michael Malice]

I. I do have that effect on people. And I. You're not the first person to tell me this, that I bring out this kind of kid, like, side of people. Maybe because I'm child size as well. There's something else that. That really kind of. So I didn't know what to make of you because I just met you and I was discussing this medical issue procedure I had, and it was a very aberrant result and a lot of professionals are racking their brain and you got the answer right away. I'm like, oh, this broad knows what she's talking about. And it really impressed me. Someone else who's like that is Dr. Drew. Where Dr. Drew doesn't have a chip on his shoulder. He's very amiable, but as soon as you pull that string, it's like, oh, my God. The amount of knowledge in his head is really about so many topics, is really crazy and impressive.

[Jillian Michaels]

He's. He's brilliant. I love him. He is the sweetest, most sensitive soul, but simultaneously a genius, double board certified physician. He's just right. And he knows a lot about a lot. There's not a whole heck of a lot. Oh, you're about to get a cat butt in your. How's this, Michael?

[Michael Malice]

That's great.

[Jillian Michaels]

How's this doing for my tough personality?

[Michael Malice]

What kind of. What's the cat's name?

[Jillian Michaels]

He's Cuban.

[Michael Malice]

Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

I guess I could be done waxing poetic about. Could you move your butt, though? Thanks. He's Cuban. We found him on the freeway in Miami. So his name is Gato, which is Latin for cats. In case anybody doesn't know, my wife wanted to name him Tokyo Blue, which I just thought was beyond absurd to the point of exceeding the pretension of those Los Angeles parents that named their kids shit like jet fuel. So I was so mad that I revolted and just called him fucking cat in Spanish.

[Michael Malice]

Isn't Tokyo Blue like a type of heroin? No, because China White is either heroin. China White is either heroin or cocaine.

[Jillian Michaels]

China White's heroin, I think.

[Michael Malice]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you.

[Michael Malice]

So I'm gonna look this up right now. So maybe she's telling you something you didn't want to know.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. Well, he did used to have blue eyes when he was a baby. Where she got the Tokyo thing, I don't know. She's kind of obsessed with Japanese culture. Maybe she fused the tooth. I have no idea. She named my cat Piera Isadora and my other cat. Sorry, we have two. And our freckly dog, she named Memphis. I'm like, why, though? We don't. You're not an Elvis fan, and we don't live in Tennessee. And then I renamed him Bear just because. So I don't. I don't know. We've got this tug of war going with. With the pet names, probably not information I needed to waste and fill your time with.

[Michael Malice]

China White is a type of analog for fentanyl.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, wow. Really? God. Well, his name's Tokyo Blue. Michael.

[Michael Malice]

I don't know if that's a. Is that. Let's look at. Let's. Let's look if that's something. Maybe that's mdma.

[Jillian Michaels]

Don't tell me that my cat is responsible for the death of like a hundred thousand Americans a year.

[Michael Malice]

No, it's an. It's an album by some guy named Naji. I don't know him.

[Jillian Michaels]

Ah, yeah, see, that's. That's. Yeah, that's. That's.

[Michael Malice]

Have you ever been to. You've been to Japan, right?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, a few times, actually. But both my son and my wife are obsessed with the culture. My son hasn't been, so of course, that's his, like, dream of choice trip. I promised him when he turns 16, we'll go there. But, like, both of them with the. The cuisine, the culture, the history, the fashion, the anime, it's almost like past life, kind of strange obsession. I love it, but I'm not obsessed with it.

[Michael Malice]

I will tell you a Japanese story I haven't told anyone yet.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm ready.

[Michael Malice]

So I was there in 2024, in April, and I went to go because they do menswear better than Americans do because they did the old American style and they ramped it up, right? So I go to. There's a street with all, like, you know, American kind of clothes in the Japanese vein. And there is a jacket, black denim jacket, hanging over the cash register, right? So it's point of pride. And I look and there's something written on the back spelled out. And I go, oh, I gotta try. I'm like, this is what there's. A lot of times I'll have something just to have because I don't know if I'll ever be wear it, but I want to own it. And I'm like, I got to try that on. And the guy's like, are you sure Westerners don't like this? And I'm like, yeah, I have to try it on. And it fit like A glove. And I've only worn it. I wore it in Japan. And it's a black denim jacket. And on the back, in, like, kanji. No, like, what do you call it when they sew in the letters?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, like embroidered.

[Michael Malice]

Embroidered Kanji. It says swastika. No, because that's the.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was going to say, go put it on right now. Let's make use of this. It says kill Jews, Jill, is what I said.

[Michael Malice]

No, no, no. Swastika means good luck over there. Right? Because they have the reverse swastika from the Nazis and it's all over Japan. So what's funny is it makes even. It doesn't make any sense to have a jacket that says good luck either. So I told my mom. I'm like, mom, like, I got this jacket. She goes like, why do you want a jacket that says that you. For genocide? I go, imagine a T shirt that just said Statue of Liberty. She goes, okay, I get it. Like, it's so. I have it. It's right in there. I've only worn it in Japan, but I'll bust it out.

[Jillian Michaels]

Don't, Don't. Don't do that. Because I like having you alive. So maybe let's leave it in there. And it makes.

[Michael Malice]

I got out of North Korea, I think I could get out of. Of things. I'm pretty good.

[Jillian Michaels]

What the hell were you doing in North Korea?

[Michael Malice]

You've never been. It's the new Milan. I was there to research for a book and also to see what the Soviet Union was like, you know, back in the day. Wow. It was great. Oh, it was illegal at the time.

[Jillian Michaels]

When.

[Michael Malice]

Before they killed Otto. On beer.

[Jillian Michaels]

Michael. How long ago was that? I only remember Kim Jong Un and. Oh, God. Okay, so hold on. Who was this guy? I don't know anything about. I just know Kim Jong Un and his dad before him, and it's been communist forever and forties. It's evil. And nobody goes there. And I. I saw one woman talk about it on Rogan, of course, of all places, who. Who had escaped it. And it was so horrifying that I. I can't even fathom going. That's. That's. It was the most disgusting, awful, gross, sort of harrowing tale, and I. What in the name of God? How long were you there for?

[Michael Malice]

A week. Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Let's. Let's. Let's slow down a second. If someone came to the States, right, and we're given a tour, they're not taking them to Inner Baltimore, right? They're going to take them to the nice places.

[Jillian Michaels]

So even the nice places?

[Michael Malice]

Nice. Certain places, yes. So North Korea is. They did something in the 50s and had several iterations of it called the Understanding People Project. So they interviewed every single person in the country, and they assigned you, based on your family up to second cousins, a level of the caste system. So you have the favorite cast, the wavering cast, and the hostile cast. This determines everything about your life, including where you live. You're not allowed to travel to the capital city if you're hostile caste. Right. This also determines what colleges you go to and, like, whether you have food. And you're not told your caste, but it's really clear by how people treat you what your caste is. So I met refugees and they're like, oh, my God, what's Pyongyang like? Is it awesome? And it's not awesome, but they've been told it's like the greatest place on earth. Not at all. And in fact, I almost got in a fight in North Korea with one of the people on my tour because I was screwing.

[Jillian Michaels]

On your tour? There's a tour? Hold on. Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

You think they can let us walk

[Jillian Michaels]

around a group of people? Or you're alone, like, at least just you being.

[Michael Malice]

No, like, 12 of us. 14. Whatever it was. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's crazy.

[Michael Malice]

There was this really, like, very basic, like, Wall street type guy, and I was just messing with him the whole time. And we. We go to a school and the school was fake. You know what I mean? But, like, show off to us. And we go to this classroom and there's this little model of, like, Pyongyang or whatever, you know, like a diorama. And. And the teacher asks him, what's the most beautiful place in the world? And the simpleton goes, oh, the mountains. And they go, no, Pyongyang. And they're all laughing at him. And. And I'm fucking with him on the bus because how stupid can you be? And he turns around and he loses it. And he was ready to swing on me. And if this was anywhere else, I don't care, because you're not going to take me out. Like, if I'm scared of everyone who's bigger than me, the only person I'm not going to be scared of is you. But it got really tense in that bus. I'm like, I'm not creating a violent incident in North Korea because there's no way this is going to end well.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, no. God, that's crazy. Crazy.

[Michael Malice]

Wow.

[Jillian Michaels]

Michael, I. You know, interestingly, we were talking about Dr. Drew prior to this and referencing how Trump had made the joke about the girls hockey team and everybody was pissed. And I, I was saying that when people tease you and give you my whole life, that was always a sign of affection.

[Michael Malice]

That's right. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And what he pointed out, he actually told me that one in five people who are not on the spectrum, by the way, don't have a sense of humor.

[Michael Malice]

That's not Adam's point. They can't perceive it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, they can't perceive it, and then they get offended and angry. And I. I have met those.

[Michael Malice]

No, no. Then they say, it's not that I don't have a sense of humor. It's that the joke wasn't funny. Wasn't.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

It's never like, you could say you're bad at math, but literally no one ever says they have a bad sense of humor. Sometimes the joke isn't funny, but a lot of times it's like, nope, it's you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Half of my family is exceptionally sensitive to that kind of teasing, and it's taken me a long time to root it out of my personality with them because it's so inherent. It was how I was raised, but just. There are some people not to be an asshole, but like my ex, who just. None of it is funny. There's no amount of teasing. Nothing's funny. It's.

[Michael Malice]

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. How are you going to have a relationship with someone like that? I'm not even kidding.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, I. I think I just. She held on to how angry she was about it until one day it was like, by the way, you are an asshole. And I was like, wow, really? This whole time you've been upset and hurt and offended like, like, she's pint sized. My ex is even smaller than me. And I would call her and she used to tell me that when she was a kid, she would do mouse Hercise at home because that was a thing, you know, in America. Like, I don't know if you remember, but you could work out with like, Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mouse.

[Michael Malice]

Okay, sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

So I would call her Mighty Mouse. And the nickname I was. I would call her Mouse. It kind of. Oh, my God, Michael. And I thought it was the cutest thing because she was just, you know, I ended up finding out years later how much she hated me for that.

[Michael Malice]

Why? What does she think you meant by it?

[Jillian Michaels]

Angry? She didn't think it was cute. She didn't think it was teasing. She didn't think it was funny. She felt Demoralized and insulted. And I gotta be honest, my mom sees things similarly. And my daughter is very sensitive. These jokes are not funny to her at all. She has a great little sense of humor, but she does not tolerate the teasing. Whereas my son, back and forth, and it's hysterical, but with her, never. So, like, I might make a joke to her about, okay, we planned this great trip, and, you know, I'm gonna have to take your brother, and my. And my son could be sitting there, and he'll think it's hysterical, and he'll make some sort of joke about how he proposes his mom. But if I made that joke to my son about my daughter, she would actually be deeply hurt. So I've just learned to kind of adapt and act accordingly. But it's a. It's a thing. And, like, this guy almost came to blows with you over something that was just so ridiculous you're giving him and having fun.

[Michael Malice]

In his defense, I wasn't being good spirit about it. I was. Oh, yeah. It wasn't collegial. It was really. I'm with this guy. Like, he was right. Like, I. It was not done in good naturedly. Usually it is. This case it was not. So he was correct.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. All right. I still don't think you could provoke me into, like. If you were like, jillian, that was the dumbest thing you could have ever said. I'd probably start laughing my ass off on the bus.

[Michael Malice]

Because if you had said the mountains in front of a diorama of Pyongyang in Pyongyang in front of a group of kids talking about how great Pyongyang is, you would be like, okay, I should be in the prison because. Or prison for simpletons. Because it's not like there weren't context cues for what the right answer is. It would be better if you at least said, like, New York City, at least being American about it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Think if you were giving me about it, I would laugh. Because there. There's. I don't know. I think you have to have some sort of deeper insecurity because I make obvious mistakes like that all the time. And. And to me, if you were giving me shit about it, I would think it was the. That also, that kind of attention I've interpreted to be affection. So if you're giving, I'm. I'm getting your attention. So I would just be laughing my ass off. Like, we go to dinner parties and my wife will tell, like, ridiculous stories about me. I just think it's. I laugh. I feel like I'M the center of attention. It doesn't bother me at all. I don't even think. There's not a whole hell of a lot you could do. Teasing me, kind of pointing out shit I've done that stupid that I would not. I don't know. We don't think it would bother me.

[Michael Malice]

Fox, let's face it, after a night with drinks, you don't bounce back the next day like you used to. So you have to have a choice. Either a great night or a great next day. This is where Pre Alcohol comes along. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. And here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So just remember, make Pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Zebiotics was very smart. They sent me a bunch of this stuff. I gave it to all my friends that here tried out and they all said they felt a big difference. Here's the thing. March is a marathon of social events. From the slopes to bracket watch parties to Guinness on St Patrick's Day. Pre Alcohol is a tool you need to fully enjoy the end of Winter. Go to ZBiotics.com Malice to learn more. Get 15% off your first order when use Malice at checkout. ZBiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember, head to ZBiotics.com/malice use code Malice at checkout for 15% off. What I really like about Oneskin skin care products is that they've gotten me going into a little skincare routine every day. And I can say I kind of like it because at their core is their patented OS1 peptide. It's the first ingredient proven to target senescent cells, which are a key driver of wrinkles, fine lines and a loss of elasticity. These results have been validated in four different peer reviewed clinical studies. All of their products, all of one Skin's products layer seamlessly or replace multiple steps in your routine, making skin health easier and smarter at every age. Even at my advanced age. And Oneskin has attracted A list fans from biohackers like Dave Asprey, the Hollywood icons like Jennifer aniston and Matthew McConaughey of Austin, Texas. As am I. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age, for a limited time, try OneSkin. 15% off. Use code Malice@OneSkin co. Malice. That's 15% off. OneSkin co with Code Malice. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show, tell them I sent you, and you'll enjoy having your morning routine like a certain movie character that I'm not supposed to mention every day. Let's get back to it. So it's interesting. My grandma, like, after my grandfather died, my sister called her, and she's like, what do you call me for? I've got enough problems. So, like, that is, like, that's very much part of our family. But it's even funnier because my dad is like, kind of an ass. Apple doesn't far fall from the tree. Fall far from the tree. And I remember in the 80s, there was a coworker you had named Patty, right? At Merrill Lynch. And they'd be at lunch, at the lunch and whatever, and he's like, oh, God, Patty's coming here. And it would be a joke, right? Same thing with you, what you were saying with your kids. But then when Patty did it to him, he's like, oh, she meant it like, I'm. And I'm like, it's literally verbatim the same joke. It was so crazy, even as a kid, I'm like, you're insane.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, I see that all the time. And you have to know which one is the Patty that you can make the joke about, because there's your daddies. Tell me.

[Michael Malice]

You want to know my trick? I have a thing. I run. Whenever I meet someone. I didn't do it with you, I throw out a slightly inappropriate comment. Slightly. Because then I see their reaction. And when I see the reaction, I know. Is this someone I can have a run relationship with?

[Jillian Michaels]

Give me an example.

[Michael Malice]

I'll tell you exactly. I know how to do this.

[Jillian Michaels]

Hit me with it now. Hit me with it now. Hit me.

[Michael Malice]

So if. If they roll their eyes, that's fine because they're okay. It's a dumb joke. If they laugh, that's even better. But if they're like. I'm like, all right, like, you can huff and puff. I'm not gonna have time for you. I was at a, I don't think I've told this story before publicly either. I was at a fundraiser for Michael Shellenberger, who was running at the time for governor of California, and he was saying it was a given he was going to be number two in the runoff with Gavin Newsom. So I don't remember what year this was. I guess 2014 or something, 2016. And Gavin Newsom, people don't know, had been married to Kimberly Guilfoyle, who was later at the time, was engaged to Donald Trump Jr. And is currently ambassador to Greece. So I go up to him again. It's a small gathering, there's like 30 of us there. It wasn't like on mic or camera. And I, I say a very dumb joke. I say, hey, can you promise me as governor that you won't sleep with Kimberly Guilfoyle? And just goes, haha. He goes, oh, wait a minute, I know you. And he just 180 and walked away.

[Jillian Michaels]

And I was like, oh, Michael, wait, you mean, you mean Newsom, Shellenberger? Michael, really?

[Michael Malice]

180 walked away? Yep. And here's the other thing. People don't have to like my sense of humor. He's not wrong. If it's not his cup of tea, it's not his cup of tea. That's perfectly fine.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's so interesting. I, you know, I've never made jokes though, with him. Now you know why I, I've never tried to. I, I, I love his, I appreciate his work.

[Michael Malice]

Sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've had him on twice to talk to me about, of course, California, and it's of disrepair and the work he did on the WPATH files, the Gender Affirming Care expose. And then I was with him one night at Dave Rubin's house pre election, and he was a pretty optimistic guy. You know, Brett Weinstein was like, everybody put your phones in another room and we need to have a serious conversation. And I, I was like, what the, you think everything's bugged? Like, what's, what's. And he, Brett, Brett meant it. He was freaked out and he, he was heavy into this idea that the nanny state was going to rob us all of our freedoms. I can't necessarily say if he's right or he's wrong yet, but Michael thought it was hysterical and was incredibly optimistic either way. And I remember being sort of surprised that he was all the way into, like, it's going to work out either way. But I'm surprised he didn't take that joke well.

[Michael Malice]

He doesn't have to. You know what I mean? I don't begrudge him.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Michael Malice]

But it was like a litmus test thing.

[Jillian Michaels]

Ah, disappointed. All right. I still love his work.

[Michael Malice]

There's another funny story that's similar to that. So Kathy Griffin, who used to be hilarious back in her heyday and really degenerated, she had a book where it's called A to Z, whatever it was, and it's like a celebrity for every letter of the Alphabet and her interactions with them. And I've never liked Ashton Kushner more because she was backstage with him at some event, they're presenting an award together and she's like trying to needle him and he would not acknowledge her existence. So she's sitting there cracking jokes and he's just not even looking at her. They go on stage, she wouldn't look at her. I'm like, Ashton, slow clap. I, I appreciate that. And she was all salty about it. And I don't, it's like he doesn't want to talk to you. Not everyone has to like you. If Michael doesn't think I'm funny, he's right. I'm not funny for him. That's fine.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right. I guess so. I just, Anyway, I, I, that's fair. That's fair. Fair point. I actually don't like Kathy Griffin. I have a Kathy Griffin story for you that I completely forgot about until you brought it up many moons ago when she had that reality show.

[Michael Malice]

I cannot believe My Life on the D List.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's it. That's it. Okay. So it was her very.

[Michael Malice]

Wait, hold on a second, hold on a second. Hold on. Can we appreciate the humor that a lesbian didn't remember the term My Life on the D list. I think there's something there.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have a little bit of self hating homophobia. I think it's possible. I've tried to block out any and all references. I'm just like you, Michael. I'm just like you. So it's the first episode of this friggin show. I don't know her, I've never met her. And I was asked because it was on Bravo, an NBC owned Bravo. So they had asked all of their talent to go to some party at her house and I didn't want to go. I never go to parties. I'm kind of, kind of a weirdo. Like I, I was very excited to meet you at, at Abigail Shrier's dinner. But that's kind of the extent of my social existence. I don't really, I don't go to parties. I don't go to clubs. So anyway, I get asked to go to this thing by the network and I meet her and I'm like, hey, nice to meet you. And that's kind of the extent of it. I go on my way and they're like, all right, you can go home. The show comes out and she launches into a tirade about how I'm. Something about I'm going to get this wrong, but something about, like, I would show up at the drop of an envelope. Like, I tried to break into her house and her party, or like, I tried to get into her house or her party. Something to that effect of like, I'm fame seeking. And I was so pissed. I was like, you wicked bitch. Like, it took the network to get these people to your house by lying and shit. Talking, talking. I don't think I've ever talked about that. But she's kind of like one of those Andy Cohen characters. Like, not. Not nice.

[Michael Malice]

I. I love the idea that your fit, like, fitness personality, claim to fame is. It would be. The path would be through Kathy Griffin's house. Like, you know what I mean?

[Jillian Michaels]

What I know. I. I don't know. And to really stick it to her, she should know. Although I think this may be infamous at this point that I was recruited by Ashton Kutcher to work with him on a Pop Chips campaign. So he wanted to talk to me. Now I don't, you know, who knows? Come to find out, he's like best friends with Sean Combs and, you know, Danny Masters it. But, but listen, bottom line, he was. He wanted to have a conversation with me, Kathy. So you.

[Michael Malice]

There was. For people who don't realize how funny she was that first season, she had her niece or something, a younger female that she was related to in some way. And this girl was a real fan of some boy band. So she got from the guy from the boy band to show up and talk to her niece or whoever it was, and they had a lovely evening. And then he went to the confessional and she would say, oh, I wouldn't call him dumb. I would say, mentally disabled. And it was really, really funny. But it's like this guy went to your house to talk to your niece. He's got literally thousands of girls who are much more interesting and hotter than her that he could be talking to. And he's in a boy band. Like, this is the thanks he gets. I was like, wow, so she used to be vicious.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. I never, you know, you brush it off, of course but you do sort of. It is. You do kind of remember it because you do someone a solid, right? And then they fuck you over publicly for no reason except to try to create some sort of a headline. And it is a little bit disappointing. But I'm not. I refuse to be thin skinned about it. So there.

[Michael Malice]

You're going to be fat skinned about it. Come on. You could be the biggest. Wait, so like, I just do have one question. You run the Biggest Loser for many seasons. A very popular show. What is Tom woods like in real life?

[Jillian Michaels]

Tom Woods?

[Michael Malice]

Who's the biggest loser?

[Jillian Michaels]

Who's Tom Woods?

[Michael Malice]

Isn't it a show about Tom Woods?

[Jillian Michaels]

Is Tom Woods.

[Michael Malice]

Okay, let's move on.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is it like an inside joke I'm supposed to. Supposed to get?

[Michael Malice]

Yes. You're not supposed to get it. That's the whole point. That's what's hilarious.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. I'm gonna struggle for hours trying to get it because I'm probably like, what am I?

[Michael Malice]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not supposed to know who he is. He's a very failed podcaster and I was best man at his wedding. So it's very funny that not all that. You have no idea who he is, which is par for the course.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have no idea. Maybe he was on a. An episode I wasn't on. Is that possible?

[Michael Malice]

You're not getting the joke. I'm saying he's the biggest loser.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, see? Okay, now go to town. This is like the mountain moment, isn't it? This is the. I should have said Pong Yang. Whatever.

[Michael Malice]

And people say lesbians. And people say lesbians are humorless.

[Jillian Michaels]

I told you I missed these things when the mountain situation came up. You see, this is. I told you I make these kind of mistakes. But you can. Can. Okay, now you can dine out on it and watch how fat skinned I'm going to be about it. Look at all my beverages. By the way, that I have to like.

[Michael Malice]

Let me ask you like a serious question. So my.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm taking this interview. This is a disaster for you.

[Michael Malice]

No, it's not. No, no, no, no. Hilarious. The one view will be from Tom. He'll get finally get a Google notification. My first. Like a trainer told me the toughest part for him about training and why he loved being my trainer or coach was the fact that his job was trying to be motivated for people who weren't motivated. And he's like, I tell you what to do and you do it. And that's how it's supposed to Be. I shouldn't be having to light a fire under your butt every week to put in the work because you're the one who's getting the benefits. You're the one who, at the end of the day, you can't. Jill. And you can't do the work for your clients. He couldn't do the work for me. I still have to eat the right way or go to the gym. Was that like one of the most frustrating things about the show or training in general?

[Jillian Michaels]

No. The frustrating stuff with the show was the stuff I couldn't control.

[Michael Malice]

Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

And that was pretty much everything. So outside of my actual work with the contestants, the people on the show, but when your entire public Persona is affected by a group of people in an editing room who don't really like you and want to create a Darth Vader kind of character, it's a bit frustrating because you're just like, oh my God, I can't. That part was annoying. And I. And it's, it's kind of Biggest Loser reminds me of that quote that says, that which nourishes me also destroys me. So it gave me this massive platform, but it also crippled me on a weekly, monthly, yearly, multiple decade long basis. And so that was frustrating. And the creative of the show I could never control. I was actually speaking to a network executive was asking me about weight loss shows and did I think one would work right now? And I said, listen, at the end of the day, all of those shows that came up alongside Biggest Loser, I think they're all still on the air. Whether it's Dancing with the Stars or Survivor, had you guys done the things I told you to do back in the day, you would still be on the air.

[Michael Malice]

Now.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's easy for me to say because the show was, was a massive hit for such a long time. And it's possible that the changes I would have made would have made it less compelling. But there were just, you know, it's tv, it's reality tv, which is even worse. And for me, I was really running a life or death intervention on a ticking clock. And at the same time, you have people making a TV show. So that was the part that I just, I would just, you know, bang my head against the wall constantly.

[Michael Malice]

If you love epic stories of myth and legend, listen up. Before Camelot and before the Crown, the Pendragon cycle, Rise of the Merlin, tells the origin story of the legend that shaped Britain. It's a seven episode cinematic epic, years in the making. This isn't a retelling of the King Arthur story. This is the rise of the world that made Arthur possible. It is shot across multiple international locations. The series brings myth to life with cinematic production value, full scale battles, and a sweeping original orchestral score. At its core, this is a return to classic epic storytelling where faith, prophecy and sacrifice truly matter. Stream the Pendragon Cycle Rise of the Merlin with all episodes available to watch now only on Daily Wire.

[Commercial Announcer]

Plus, ThirdLove makes bras that actually fit. So they know this. If your bra feels uncomfortable, the problem isn't your body, it's the bra. ThirdLove designs for comfort first soft fabrics support that doesn't dig, pinch or slip bras that feel good and look good under everything you wear. Shop ThirdLove and explore over 60 sizes, including double A through H and half cup sizes you won't find anywhere else. Get $15 off your first purchase at thirdlove.com with code podcast15.

[Michael Malice]

Let's get back to the show. So I, I went to a MAHA event yesterday and Bobby Kennedy spoke and I was really impressed with what he had to say because I didn't realize some of these statistics about how back in the day, like a doctor would see one kid with type 2 diabetes in his entire career and now it's like 20% or something insane. And type 2 is something weight loss would, you know, if not eliminate, would heavily mitigate. And the numbers, he was eliminated most

[Jillian Michaels]

likely because if you cleaned up the diet in order to facilitate the weight loss and you got them away from refined grains and processed sugars and all of that, you would, you would reverse it completely.

[Michael Malice]

Yeah, it's so the things he was, I didn't realize to what extent. And you know, very famously during his campaign, he had photos of people from the 60s at the beach and he's like, we're the same people genetically. Like, these people are like literally like 50 pounds lighter on average. They're not working out. Workout culture only became a thing in the 80s, you know, after Schwarzenegger and pumping iron. It was a weird thing to do, certainly in the 60s, especially compared to now or then. He's like, something's not adding up and the only thing that's changed is our food. I'm sure this is something you have a lot to talk about. I'd love to hear your rant on this.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm actually writing a book about, okay, how all of this happened right now. Oh, oh, and funnily enough, right before I logged on to talk to you, I'm working on just the food section. So it's it's a book about what I call the Sickness Syndicate. But you have to start with Big Ag, and then you move to Big Food and then Big Pharma and Big Insurance. But before you can even get into that, you have to look at how Washington has been leveraged. Who's leveraging Washington? And then you have the history of each industry. And by the time you're done reading it, you will understand the reason for all of these exploding statistics on obesity and chronic disease very, very clearly. And the long story short is that none of this is an accident. None of this is genetic. None of this is a personal failing. This is all by design. And I'll try to give you just the two things with regard to food so you understand it. But a lot of it actually goes back to World War II, actually goes back farther. It goes back to the Great Depression when they subsidized commodity crops to protect small family farms. But that ended up getting hijacked like every other policy that ever had good intentions. And you had mechanization after the war. And you end up with this, essentially all of these chemicals from chemical warfare and all of this machinery from tanks and this, that and the other. And so they just turned it into, they flipped the script for peacetime use and turned it on farming. So of course that's where you get all of the pesticides, the herbicides, the fungicides. Maybe you've heard about glass glyphosate being now given complete blanket immunity thanks to an executive order on my birthday by Donald Trump. So that goes all the way back to defoliants that they were using in the jungles of the South Pacific during World War II and Vietnam War and all of that, that's, that's glyphosate. That's where that shit comes from. And on top of all the other poisons. Anyway, long story short is they end up with an obscene glut of processed corn, wheat and soy. And they got to find a place for it. And this is before the 70s where Nixon essentially instructs this guy Earl Butz to grow even more of it. Because you should know this, this is such a long story and I don't want to go too far off piste and lose you, but Russia had a wipeout of their crops. So they sent people into the States for what's called the Great Grain Robbery. And they ended up taking 30% of our grains and it left the government flat footed and it drove up the price of food. So Nixon then doubled down and said, don't ever let this happen again. So then you had to get bigger the get out that wiped out all the independent farmers and. And now you have just literally thousands and thousands of calories of fiberless nutrient lists. That's not even a word. Food with no nutrients. Crap sludge, quite literally, that they made high fructose corn syrup out of, you know, processed seed oils out of all of this stuff. And big food gets it for pretty much free because we subsidize it through all the policy that they capture. And they then get a team of multidisciplinary scientists to fuck with it until the cows come home. None of it's even food. I mean, they're engineering every aspect of each bite. So whether it's the bliss point, which is calculus, how much sugar and how much fat and how much salt to trust trigger the dopamine centers of your brain. Because there's no food in nature that has that much sugar and that much fat and that much salt. It doesn't exist. There's no biological defense against it. It is everything from with textures like an Oreo is crunchy on the outside, soft on the inside, so you never get bored. Or making sure that there's so many different flavor profiles in a chip that you can never get fully satiated with one. Or what they call like dissolving calorie density. So you never chew. The food just dissolves on your palate, so your body's never releasing satiety hormones. I mean, it is all a very deliberate and specific science experiment. And then Big Tobacco comes in in the 80s, because what's happening with Big Tobacco is it's the Surgeon General warnings are working unless people are smoking. So they test it out with Hawaiian Punch. They buy Hawaiian Punch, which was a mixer for alcoholic beverages for adults, right? And they apply all of their marketing and all of their flavor profiles and all of their manipulative chemistry on food. Market it to kids with Punchy, the cartoon character. They do all of this, unbeknownst to parents, by the way, end up buying the big food companies with this stuff some more. And to make a big, very, very long story short, we are surrounded by this stuff. They capture the science around it. They capture the government agencies that are supposed to utilize that science to make policy. They capture the medical institutions, the ama, the apa, all of them, every single one. They, they. This goes from literally the study, the doctors, the medical organizations, the media is captured. They pay for all of their advertising dollars for the most part. So nobody's going to say anything bad and not only are they going to silence stories about how bad this stuff is, they're going to print stories about how great it is. So, for example, Time magazine, this is one I can show to you. Put something on the COVID saying, what if ultra processed foods are not as bad as you think? Are you fucking kidding me? And it's that all the time the grocery store is a behavioral lab where everything is located and where kids are going to see it. So they give their parents a hard time at the checkout about buying the candy bar. And parents don't want to discipline their kids. It is diabolical. There's procurement contracts. There's. I mean, one more example. Okay, so these guys lobbied Congress to create dietary guidelines, which became the old food pyramid. But of course they funded the studies and they bought the researchers, which is why the food pyramid was all about refined grains and processed sugars. Well, they use that food pyramid because it directs what we feed our kids in school, what we feed our military, what we provide for nutritional assistance on snap. So it's worth hundreds of billions of tax dollars. They have rigged this game. There is no stone that is left unturned. There is no expert that has been left untainted. There is no corner that has not been captured. And if you think that you see something that appears to be grassroots support for this, that's all dark money and astroturfing. None of this is real. It is a trap. And 74 million Americans have fallen into it. And they are obese and overweight, suffering with a host of comorbidities. And if you haven't been hit by it yet, you're in the pipeline. I know it's a lot. I'm sorry, it's a lot to go.

[Michael Malice]

No, no. Then you're also told you're healthy at any size.

[Jillian Michaels]

That, by the way, was co opted by Big Food. It was a movement that had to do with health at any size, meaning accessibility. And then they grabbed it and then they bought all the dietitians. Washington Post actually did a really good expose on this. They bought all of these registered dietitians. It's like, we gotta capture the professionals. And then they put it through social media and legacy media of, hey, you know, anybody who says that you can't be healthy in any size is an ableist and a fat shamer. And that actually goes back to the Ford foundation working with the CIA to weaponize dei. I mean, it's Michael, it's crazy. You have to literally, in the beginning of the book, I warn people like you're going to think I'm crazy. All of this is going to seem insane. Hopefully in a world post Covid and post Epstein, you're going to, you're going to provide me with, with a little bit of leeway. And anytime you think this is bullshit, pause and look it up, do your own homework. It is fucking insane. And it is all by design. And then once they locked everything in here in America, they use trade deals to lock it in globally. And the effects of that are catastrophic. Catastrophic. Now you have the effects of our diet, the standard American diet, exploding across the globe, including in developing nations. And to even give you just one more idea, all of that bullshit. Maybe, maybe you remember this. I'm sure you do with Elon Musk and Doge and usaid. Feeding children in the developing world. No, no, that's not what's happening there. So that whole game was because we have all of this processed grain surplus, because Big Ag has captured all, all of our tax dollars through policies that they also captured by capturing our regulators. So this shit all gets shipped out to the developing world, kills all of their local farmers, all of the things that naturally grow there. It then makes them dependent on us for the processed grain, us for the chemicals. It is causing health havoc in these parts of the world, but it is also creating devastation to the local economies. And, and it's like, oh, feeding children in the developing world. I'm like, no, it's cute that you think that, but that's not what's happening. It is pure evil on purpose and it is fucking working.

[Michael Malice]

So there's two things Bobby said that I was really delighted to learn. One is they redid the food pyramid and now it just says eat real food. And I thought at first it's like, okay, who cares if it's on the food pyramid? And then he pointed out, as you yourself just did, that that food pyramid is the basis for school lunches and the military, which is a lot of people. Right? Snap. I didn't real. I thought this was excellent. They're. They're going state by state and Texas did this and they're making it so you can't buy soda with food stamps.

[Jillian Michaels]

And if spoke out against that, the American Heart Association.

[Michael Malice]

No.

[Jillian Michaels]

Actually tried to. Yes. Because they're captured.

[Michael Malice]

What was their argument?

[Jillian Michaels]

Gosh, I can't remember the exact words that they used. But what they lean into heavily is that these are necessary calories for an impoverished community of color. So you're not just ableist, you're racist. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, that check mark that the. That the American Heart association gives out to food companies. It's a licensing organization. None of that is heart healthy. Yeah, no, no, no, babe, it is diabolical.

[Michael Malice]

And. And he was saying they lost there.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right, but. But we'll see. And Kennedy is temporary. Remember that?

[Michael Malice]

Sure, sure. But point.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's a waiting game.

[Michael Malice]

I think he was saying that they'd never seen lobbying this intense, and you could understand why, because there's a huge amount of money at stake for them to make sure poor people in the military can get all the coke or whatever processed food that they need. So the fact that there's any traction going at all, I think is great. I think the fact that people are thinking, you're right.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. You're right, you're right. I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. You're right. The one thing that I would simply say is just remember that he is transient and they know that. So any progress he makes, they're going to wait him out and they're going to flip it again. And this is why we need this stuff codified. We need this stuff to move through Congress wherever possible. We need people to be awake and aware, so when they try to flip it back, you fight like hell. And that's the reason they buy the narratives and the doctors and the medical institutions. That's the reason the mainstream media has tried to paint him like a quack. Newsweek tried to print that he eats fucking dogs. They went after him. He's a rapist. He eats dogs. He cuts off whale heads and keeps them. It was anything and everything they could do because he's going to be leaving in three years and they know that. And when they go to roll it back, it's going to be like, thank God this lunatic scene psycho is out of the Department of Health and Human Services and we could put things back when they belong.

[Michael Malice]

But I think the other thing that's I. I'm liking is people are more and more reading labels and are making. Trying to make informed decisions about their food. The information is out there. It's not. He made this great point. He goes, look, there's no Republican or Democrat children. You're talking about nutrition. This is not a political issue. I'm not gonna do an impression of him as I can't point being. I do think, especially with affluent areas, that is becoming more of a thing, Whole foods and. And places like that, where people are like, more conscious about the decisions that they make. I think smoking's at an all time low. I think maybe it went up a little bit, but it's still nothing like when you and I were kids in terms of how many people smoke.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't know about vaping. I've actually not looked into vaping. I think you might be discouraged. I know this is terrible. You might be discouraged to find that smoking might have just replaced it, but I. I have not looked into that. I probably should.

[Michael Malice]

Vaping is much better for you than smoking. Wait, hold on.

[Jillian Michaels]

Argu. Arguably worse.

[Michael Malice]

How is vaping worse?

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, it's filled with all kinds of chemicals and it's terrible for you, but

[Michael Malice]

has vaping been shown to cause, like, cancer long term and emphysema, popcorn lung

[Jillian Michaels]

and all kinds of stuff? Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

Popcorn lung. God damn it, lady. What are you talking about? Oh, God.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know.

[Michael Malice]

Oh, you know, this is horrific.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

Oh, my God. Incurable. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Vaping is a no go, babe. It's kind of like our conversation about China White versus Tokyo blue.

[Michael Malice]

I'll stick to my China White.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's like, oh, you know. Yeah, yeah. And they go after kids in the same way, and they're all doing it. My daughter comes home and tells me about it all the time because they're just. They're all doing it. I know the kids on. My son's. My son's 13, he's turning 14. They hide their vapes in their sweatshirt sleeves and they all vape.

[Michael Malice]

You can pretend you're a dragon, but. But I have a good buddy and he's hooked on his vape and he vapes and he plays video games all night. And he's admitted to me. He goes, yeah, it's causing my hair to thin a little bit because that's like a function of whatever nicotine, I guess it is. And he's like, but, man, I love that sweet, sweet vape. And I'm just like, do you flavor profiles?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Remember when I told you that they were like, we're a flavor company and they took all the flavors. Flavor chemistry from cigarettes and moved it into food?

[Michael Malice]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's what it's all about. It's all about addictive chemicals and flavor profiles and it. Manipulation of behavior. It is. It's engineered addiction. And the reality is we just don't have the evolutionary defenses. The food is not made this way. We are not exposed to these kinds of chemicals. This is all a science experiment that nobody signed up for. For. And you're seeing the results, right, that the canary is dead on the floor of the coal mine. Why do we think? I was just talking to Casey DeSantis yesterday because she's starting, you know, healthy Florida first, and she's like, I just. You know, when I got diagnosed with cancer, I couldn't believe it. She's young. She's got three kids. It's like, yeah, you and Kate Middleton, Olivia Mah and Christina Applegate and Angelina Joliet. Like, why do you think. Bingo. 18 to 49, early onset cancer diagnosis are up 79% in the last two decades. And I would have to guess is the wrong word. It is. It is. My estimation, after speaking with many different, very intelligent doctors, whether it's a Dr. Drew or a Dr. Casey Means or a Dr. William Lee, you name it. I've interviewed a lot of doctors in my career. That. It is the cumulative effect. It's like death by a thousand cuts. You know, it's just. It's like the Oreo, but it's also the shit in the water, but it's also the shit in the air, but it's also the shit in your deodorant, and it's also the stuff in. In the cleaning product. Like, all of it together. The cumulative load of all of these toxins is just devastating.

[Michael Malice]

You know what I just learned in the last month?

[Jillian Michaels]

Tell me.

[Michael Malice]

That antiperspirant makes you sweat.

[Jillian Michaels]

I did not know that.

[Michael Malice]

I stopped using it. I just switched to straight deodorant, and I sweat less because it clogs your pores.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah. With aluminum, I think. Isn't that right? Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Malice]

I was getting all the stains in my shirts, and they're just like the stains from the aluminum switch to the other. I'm not particularly smelly person. I'm like, oh, I'm sweating less.

[Jillian Michaels]

And you're putting aluminum. Think about that for just a second. Okay. You're putting aluminum on your skin that clogs your pores. Now, having said that, the skin is transdermal, and it's not getting processed through the liver, the kidneys, it's going straight into the bloodstream. So it's arguably more nefarious than heavy metals in your food. We've got heavy metals in our baby formula. It's just. Oh, God.

[Michael Malice]

I remember my hearing was slightly impacted because I had earwax, Right. So I got the drops, and I put the earwax drops in, and I. I lost the hearing completely. I went to the clinic, and the guy with my friend Stacy at the time, and the doctor goes, oh, you got the drops? Yeah. Like, that's really. You're not supposed to use those when it's bad. And she's like, so when to use the drops when you don't need the drops. Like, what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, it's so crazy.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're not supposed to use the drops that are for.

[Michael Malice]

Right. But antiperspirant's the same thing.

[Jillian Michaels]

I didn't know it made you sweat last. I do know that it utilizes aluminum to clog the pores, but I was always under the pretense of this will make you not sweat. And it's like that trade off is just so exciting that you're willing. You're willing to take the hit, you know? And people are like, oh, it's such a sweet. And here's another one that they love to tell you is, oh, it's just such a small amount. It's nominal. Oh, you need to, you know, you need to slather yourself in deodorant every day for the rest of your life. 24 7. But it's not just the deodorant. That's. That's kind of the point. It's deodorant and the shit you wash your dishes with and the shit in the laundry that you wash your clothes with, the stuff in the dry cleaning, the stuff in the food, the stuff in the air, the stuff in the water. Which is why anywhere and everywhere you can mitigate the exposure actually does have a big difference. That is going to make a big difference because we're just being overwhelmed. And if you speak to a cancer researcher, for example, they'll tell you, like, the body is always making mistakes. In other words, cancer cells are always being created. But you, your body's immune system, it's like cops on a beat, they go in and they find the bad cells and they kill them. But when there's too many and your immune system is outnumbered. So it really is about working hard to lessen the burden. And this is why these kinds of conversations are so important, because it's like it's trying to educate people and break through the noise because the truth is blocked out on purpose. And anybody who tells it to you is made to seem anti science or insane. Right on purpose, folks.

[Michael Malice]

Head over to malice.locals.com where Jillian took questions from the fans. Jillian, we're running out of time. What has been your favorite part of this interview?

[Jillian Michaels]

Gosh, jeez. I want to know more about Korea. I'm fascinated about that. I need to hear all about that trip. But we could do that over wine. We'll make an exception.

[Michael Malice]

Okay, okay. You are welcome.

[James Altucher]

Hey, it's James Alucher. I've been an entrepreneur, investor, best selling writer, stand up comic and whatever it is I'm interested in. I get a obsessed. Yes, it's led to success, but it's also led to such heartbreaking failure. I have failed more times than I can count. I wish in my life I had had people to talk to. That's why I started the James Altruistry show. And bring on some of the most brilliant minds in every area of life. People like Richard Branson, Sarah Blakely, Mark Cuban, Danica Patrick, Gary Kasparov. And I wanted to find out exactly how they've navigated the highs, the low flows and everything in between. No fluff, just raw stories and real advice. I've talked to 1500 of the most amazing people on the planet. So if you want to learn from the best and skip the same old canned interviews, we're all about helping you find your next big idea, level up your thinking and ultimately to choose yourself. So let's do this together. Subscribe now to the James Altucher show.

[Commercial Announcer]

Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

[James Altucher]

I swear, if I'm lying, I'm dying.

[Michael Malice]

This is the mindset.

[Commercial Announcer]

Free.

[Michael Malice]

This is the mantra.

[Commercial Announcer]

Free.

[Jillian Michaels]

This is the.

[Commercial Announcer]

With movies like Interstellar, Dreamgirls and Gladiator,

[Michael Malice]

are you not entertained?

[Commercial Announcer]

And TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the fairly odd Parents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Pluto TV stream now pay never.