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- [00:01]
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- [01:25]
Meghan McCain
Foreign
- [01:29]
Michael Malice
Good afternoon. Michael Balance here, Let that be. Welcome. For the next hour, we have with us a very special returning guest, our favorite Meghan McCain, formerly of the View, daughter of John McCain, Princess of Arizona. Her podcast is called Megan has entered the chat. And your new show is called.
- [01:44]
Meghan McCain
Sorry, we changed. It's called Citizen McCain. We changed it a bit ago.
- [01:47]
Michael Malice
Oh, why'd you change it?
- [01:49]
Meghan McCain
The people my partners that we were working with like made us and now we don't work with them anymore. So it's a little uncomfortable because we like the original name. Podcasting's a like, as I told you, like congratulations for anyone who's successful at it. I found it like the hardest medium on so many different levels. We have another show, Megan McCain's Two Way Happy Hour. You can find me on the two way YouTube at 5:00 Eastern Time, Mondays and Wednesdays. So.
- [02:12]
Michael Malice
Okay, cool, cool. So we have a lot to talk about. So here's something that you don't know that it's going to be back. Of course, of course. Here's something that you don't know, which just shows how removed from reality I am. Okay. All my friends are so weird and crazy and they're not all in the public eye at all that when I need to ask the advice of someone about what normal people think, I go to Meghan fucking McCain. This is, this is how, this is how detached and deranged my life is. And one example of this was I was on tomcast in April and I Had to make a cardboard cutout of Justin Trudeau's face in blackface. And I'm like, can I wear this on air? And I asked two people. Roseanne Barr and you. And Roseanne's like, yeah, go for it. It's hilarious. And Megan's like, you will be ruined. And I'm like, all right, you know what? Yeah. I listened to your advice on this one. One of the things I wanted, and it's just weird. So what I want to talk to you about is, like, you watch, like, Real Housewives. I don't know. You're on Watch what happens live with Andy Cohen. I know anyone who watches that show or anyone.
- [03:16]
Meghan McCain
We just got in a Twitter fight. I don't think I'm going to be invited back, like, ever.
- [03:20]
Michael Malice
Okay, well, ask you about that in a second. I know anyone who watches that show. I know anyone understands what anyone would watch that show. How is it that you come from this very rarefied circles and yet you still can relate in any way to, like, the median voter?
- [03:35]
Meghan McCain
How do I relate, I think is like, I've had, like, data done on my audience. Like, my agents have done it and whatever. And I have a 85 to 90% female audience. Like, can't catch a dick to listen to what I have to say. Thanks for having me on, Michael. And listening to me in any place or one of six men on the planet, straight men that will listen to me. So I think part of it is just that, like, I grew up around a lot of the women who follow me. Like, have been following my work since I was in my early 20s. And I also feel like I'm not trying to present a veneer of, like, perfection. Like, I used to go out and party when I was much younger, and that was messy. And people would found that, like, relatable. And I think, like, I'm not a size zero. My Instagram isn't, like, a perfect filtered whatever. And I think even though, like, you know, obviously I don't come from a normal background, by anybody's metric, I think I lead a pretty normal life. And I really think part of it is, like, just looking the way most women in the country look. Like, really? I honestly think, like, not being skinny is, like, a big part of what has made me relatable to other women in the country, which sounds kind of crazy, but it's true.
- [04:42]
Michael Malice
No, it's not crazy at all. Because whenever I hear people be like, oh, my God, Megan's going mean girl. And I'm like, there's no Way someone who looked like you who went to your high school was treated as like the popular girl as opposed to people big picking her. Like, everyone knows the dynamics of high school.
- [04:56]
Meghan McCain
I was not cool in high school, for whatever that's worth. And I've had like the cool people in high school try and troll me on social media in the past. And I was like, I can't even believe you're like, still doing it. Grow up.
- [05:05]
Michael Malice
Seriously. They come for you.
- [05:07]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. Like someone was like, I went to high school with her and she was an idiot in chemistry. And I was like, yeah, I hated chemistry. Like, chemistry. Like I did.
- [05:20]
Michael Malice
So one of the things I, I was also thinking about you recently is
- [05:25]
Meghan McCain
advice too.
- [05:26]
Michael Malice
What's that?
- [05:27]
Meghan McCain
I come to you for advice too.
- [05:29]
Michael Malice
Sure, sure. But you come. But you know, you, you never came to me for blackface advice, you know, like you actually knew the answer for that. I finished Rob Henderson's book recently. It's called Troubled. Rob was a previous guest in the show and one thing he talked about is growing up in foster care. He ended up at, I think Yale or Harvard, won the two thanks to having building military. And what he saw was that a lot of the kids he was with were extremely from wealthy families. But they, it was very kind of uncool to acknowledge this. And it was almost like being gay in the 70s. Like everyone knew, but you don't ever say it certainly to their face. Right. But they had all these cues to show other people that they have money that everyone understood. But it's like this kind of hidden language. Like for example, the example he used in the book is they'd wear these Canada goose jackets with which are like $3,000. So when you see that label, it looks just like a jacket. But if you know what to look for, you're like, okay, this person has $3,000 to wear in a jacket. So is. Can you talk a bit about someone who comes from like an extremely wealthy family? Is there this weird taboo? Like, how. How are you just. You discouraged to talk about it? Like, is it screwed up for me to even bring it up to you? Like, how does that work?
- [06:36]
Meghan McCain
First of all, I apologize. I don't know his work. He. He came from a lower income background and then he came from.
- [06:43]
Michael Malice
He was seven foster homes. You know, deadbeat goes to the military, then end up in Yale. So they're all assuming he's coming from the same circumstance as him. So then he's like, you people are
- [06:53]
Meghan McCain
not similar to a little like and that similar to J.D. vance yes.
- [06:59]
Michael Malice
Yeah,
- [07:01]
Meghan McCain
I definitely. So there's nothing less cool than having, like, a privileged background, particularly in this moment. I think it's why there's, like, all this rage against Nepo babies and so. So many. And I understand it to a degree. Like, and it's so funny when I see, like, nobody gets away from it. I've seen, like, Kate Hudson and Gwyneth Paltrow have to answer the Nepo baby question. I'm like, at least it's not just fucking me that has to talk about this all day long. But definitely, like, you know, my mother is. Obviously, you can just Google it. My mother's very wealthy. She owns an Anheuser Busch beer distribution company. And, you know, it's something that, like, people know. Cause all you do is, like, google it. But it's not cool to have money to come from family money right now. It's cool to make it on your own, like, if you're, like, a person who, like, started out and whatever. But to, like, have family money is really frowned upon. Like, any problem I ever have, like, I can remember, like, I've had several miscarriages, and I wrote about one in the New York Times, and everything was like, well, her mother has money, so she. Why is she even. Like, her pain is going to be different. And the thing about it is, like, no one ever feels bad for you. There's nothing that will ever happen to me people feel bad for you about because they think that, you know, I guess having money solves every problem, which it's not like, it's bad. I don't have, you know, it's not mine, it's my mother's. But there's definitely when, if I'm in a room with, like, 100 people, I can probably clock the rich one. Like, there's definitely certain things that can do. Jacket is funny you brought that up, because that's definitely a thing. But it's also, like, I can remember I went on a date with a guy one time, and he, like, was. I didn't know anything about him. And it was the way he was. Like, he got a glass of red wine, and he was doing the, like, swish with it. Does that make sense? Like, his fingers down on the stem of the glass and, like, switching it. And I was like, oh, this dude comes from, like, something. And it turns out he did. There's certain things people can say. There's certain postures women have. It's definitely real, like, not to, like, you know, whatever. I'm not like, a expert on all Rich people. In fact, like, most of the people I hang out with are not. But I can definitely clock a rich bitch. And I can definitely clock a rich by her bag.
- [08:57]
Michael Malice
Is that how women show each other how much money they have?
- [08:59]
Meghan McCain
That handbags? You want to hear a funny story about a handbag? Take a minute. You know Theranos? Like the woman? Like Elizabeth Holmes from Theranos?
- [09:07]
Michael Malice
Yeah.
- [09:08]
Meghan McCain
So I met her at a McCain Institute dinner in Sedona a while, like, when she was still the height of whatever, she had, like, bodyguards, and everyone thought she was, like, she's like, the queen of the ball. I've never seen a woman who could, like, hypnotize older men the way that woman could make every older man, like, think she was a genius. And from the concept of the get go, I didn't understand her company. I was like, but no one's ever seen this, like, machine work.
- [09:31]
Michael Malice
Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. Maybe you should have done better in chemistry, Megan, than you.
- [09:35]
Meghan McCain
I know I should have done fucking better in chemistry. But I remember being like, it's like magic beans. Like, I don't understand. But everyone was like, you're a fucking asshole. So she was sitting at this table telling people how, like, this is a really good story. And I told the guy who wrote the movie about it, and the story didn't get in there. And I thought, I think this is, like, such a good story, if I just say so myself. It's like, one of my better stories, so I'm glad I can share it with you. But she was going on about, like, I don't care about material things. I wear the same outfit every day. I only have a mattress in my house, and I just have a StairMaster, treadmill, whatever. Like some exercise machine. Like, I can only focus on science. I can only focus on science. And I remember telling my mom and my dad, like, that bitch is carrying around a Birkin. She's carrying around, like, a, I don't know, 20 to $50,000 bag. And any woman who doesn't care about material things isn't carrying around the most expensive bag on the planet. And it caused a huge fight. And I was like, she's full of shit. Everything about this woman's full of shit. And I am very proud that. I feel like I was one of the first. She's full of shit. People on the planet. Because she wanted to have, like, a big dick. It's the most expensive bags that exist. And she wanted to, like, be like, I'm Theranos. Here's my bag.
- [10:41]
Michael Malice
So I have to ask, what kind of bag do you carry?
- [10:44]
Meghan McCain
What kind of bag do I carry? Well, right this second, I carry. I'm a mom, and my kids spill all over from me, so I'm carrying a bag from Madewell that's like, I don't know, I think 200 or something. Yeah, it's not that, like, I, you know, I couldn't have a nicer bag. It's more that, like, I literally spill shit on myself, and I spend, like, most of my time at, like, Chuck E. Cheese and, you know, my kid, I really make a mess all the time.
- [11:06]
Michael Malice
So is Rob correct that there's this taboo where if you can bring up someone's like, maybe not with you, because obviously McCain's very different. Your. Your dad's presidential candidate, and it's all very public knowledge, but if you kind of bring it up to people like this, it's, like, really, like, in bad form.
- [11:22]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. And it makes them uncomfortable. If you're raised right, I mean, there's certainly, like, a different kind of person. I think that. I think it's where, like, new money comes in, like, the term. That term. There's certainly people that are flashy, but I think if you're, like, a legacy Yale person, it's probably not the case. But most wealthy people I know either want to pretend they aren't wealthy or want to cosplay that they're poor.
- [11:43]
Michael Malice
Okay, why do you think that is? Is it just because. Because you said it's uncool, or do you think that they're trying to pretend? I'll give you one example. This is from your favorite.
- [11:53]
Meghan McCain
Myself, like, the most expert, but I've certainly been around wealthy people.
- [11:57]
Michael Malice
So the reason I also thought of this is my favorite moment with Rosie on the View was she's talking about Barbara Walters, and she's saying how she went. This is. This is just this amazing clip. And she's like, I went to Barbara Walters house, and I don't go to parties like this because you have Henry Kissinger and, like, the president of the prime minister of Prague. And there's place settings, you know, like, whatever. And Barbara's like, oh, you know, I have regular bros. Is like, look, I'm not saying it's bad. Rose is like. I'm just saying this isn't how I was raised. Like, I was raised, like, buffets. And people say, wherever. Barb's like, well, I've had buffets. And it's. She's getting very, very uncomfortable. And Rose is like, I'm not yelling. You earned this. You're an icon. You're a legend. And she's like, I have money. I'm very rich. Like, no one's saying anything. And Barbara's just, like, losing her mind because she's trying to act as if having Picassos in the living room is. I'm just like, you and me. And it's this very. So it was that exact thing that I want to ask you about.
- [12:54]
Meghan McCain
Well, it's funny because Rosie, who I. I know she's, like, in Ireland and has sort of, like, banished herself from America. Like, I always had really great interactions with her, for whatever that's worth. Like, always got along with her. She's actually the first person that warned me that the View was a success pool. And she's another one that, like, she's worth a bajillion dollars and she has a ton of Emmys. But I think people relate to her, and I think it's because, like, she's been very open about struggles. I think her kids have struggled a lot publicly. She's obviously not skinny either. I think she's just, like, been through a lot and is very open. And I think if you're, like, raw and open, people will respond to it. And Barbara Walters, who I did not host with because she had retired by the time I was a host, just in the interactions I had with her when I guest hosted, like, she's definitely, like, was a very wealthy, like, you know, but again, like, she. She's like, you know, there's no shame in it. She earned it. She's fucking Walters. But this moment right now is very populist. It' very like. And again, look at our vice president. In no small part, he became vice president because of his story, which is very compelling, but there's no Bush, Kennedy. I mean, RFK is a very specific situation. I still don't know if I see him ever being able to be president. But having a last name is actually a detriment now. And this is something I'm just, like, pontificating on. It's something I've been told by political strategists. Like, people don't like it. People think you've been handed everything. So I'm not, like, ashamed, but I certainly, like, I'm very aware of the tone of the country right now, if that makes sense. Like, it's not cool to come for money at all.
- [14:22]
Michael Malice
But what do you think was going through Barbara Walters head when Rosie was just saying this? Like, why was she so.
- [14:28]
Meghan McCain
So just visibly Distressed because the View audience is there. It's not a wealthy audience. It's a middle to lower class, stay at home mom type. And actually it's. It's interesting. Like, I'm always very, like. Like, I'm very aware of the fact that, like, every room I walk into, someone's like, spoiled. Nepo, baby, whatever. And I really, like, you know, my. I. My. My grandmother died. She gave me some nice jewelry, like, whatever. Like, I never wear or show anything that displays wealth ever. When I'm doing something publicly, maybe if it's like, private, I'm going on a date with Ben, something like that. But because you don't want to make people uncomfortable. And like, right now, people are really suffering. Like, even, like close friends of mine are having, like, a really difficult time. And I just don't think people want to have anything thrown in their face. And I even see something sometimes where I'm like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? You know what I mean? Like, it's like, gross.
- [15:24]
Michael Malice
But I just do want to give a shout out to Meghan's grandma. For those people who don't know who too young to remember. In 2008, John McCain, at that time the oldest presidential candidate in history, his mom was still with us. And John McCain, war veteran, had to sit her down and be like, mom, can you please shut up? Because she was going off on Obama in no uncertain terms and just really
- [15:45]
Meghan McCain
salty at a different time. Like, because Romney was running in the primary and she, like, really hated Mormons. I mean, rest in peace. She's passed away. She's died at 108. I think it's okay. It's just public. But, like, she, like, said all this stuff like, you can't trust Mormons. Like, yeah, she didn't. She was, I think, like, 99 or something at the time.
- [16:05]
Michael Malice
It's just my favorite. One of the favorite moments of 2008 campaign. John Cane had, like, that sit his mom down and be like, mom, please, you're up for me.
- [16:12]
Meghan McCain
I think she, like, called him a Muslim or it was bad. Like, it wasn't great. Like, my grandmother Roberta, rest in peace.
- [16:23]
Michael Malice
Let's get back to the show. So something else I want to talk to you about is Tulsi. Tulsi Gabby. So I remember very vividly, I was a big Tulsi fan. I'm a big supporter of her views and her work. She comes on the view, Megan McCain has her, you know, Real Housewives hat on, and she like, I'm gonna put this bitch in her place. And you open it very nicely somewhat. You're like, thank you for your service, blah, blah, blah. You weren't sarcastic. You were. You're genuinely acknowledging her service. You're obviously military means a lot to you and your family. And then you kind of rip into her about Assad and all this other stuff.
- [16:54]
Meghan McCain
A good first.
- [16:56]
Michael Malice
Right? And she. First of all, she knew this was coming. There's no question she knew it was coming. I thought she handled it like extremely gracefully and tactfully. But now you.
- [17:05]
Meghan McCain
Much classier than I am. Like, she's a much classier person across the board that I am. I am a ratchet and very.
- [17:15]
Michael Malice
But now you two are like join at the hip. Were you there in the Oval Office when she was sworn in?
- [17:21]
Meghan McCain
I was.
- [17:22]
Michael Malice
Right. So let's. Can we talk about this? What's the evolution of this friendship? And.
- [17:26]
Meghan McCain
And so she didn't like me either. She just again, is classy and wasn't public about it. And I remember, like, basically that was a time in my life when I was really not thinking for myself in the same way that I do now is pre Covid. I don't even know if my dad had died at that point. My dad dying really rocked just my worldview in general. And then covet happened right after and I got really radicalized like so many other people did. And when I first. When I had that first interaction, like, it was bad. Like her campaign came out and like put a statement about me and like, it was like it was bad. And then Dan, I know it's really awkward way to meet your. One of your best friends.
- [18:06]
Michael Malice
Can we say something? Because I made this joke about Biden about have you ever fucked up a debate so bad you lost your job in your house? And it's like, have you ever interviewed someone so bad that their campaign put out a statement about you? Holy crap.
- [18:18]
Meghan McCain
Yeah, I can. Again, this is probably all in the battles on the Internet someplace, but Van Jones, the CNN contributor and, you know, he's like pretty famous. We're friends and Tulsi is friends with him. And he texted both of us at the same time that like, we're both really wrong about each other and you actually really remind me of each other. And I was like. And I was like, what are you fucking. I respectfully was like, what are you fucking talking about? Like, we could not on. We still are extremely different in a lot of ways. I mean, I think like, our core values are similar and we have similar views on the world and like the same Things. But, you know, she's, like, extremely healthy, works out every day. Like, is just leads a different lifestyle than I do.
- [19:01]
Michael Malice
Also, before you go, because I've met Telsey, I've spent some time with her. I don't see it at all, because. No, I don't see that. You are where Van Jones is coming from for several reasons. First of all, she's a bro. Like, you don't see this. Yeah, yeah, See this on tv. It's like, oh, this is the girl. The one girl who's with the dudes because she's from the military. Like, it really comes through in person. And she also has this kind of
- [19:26]
Meghan McCain
shooting and hiking and all those.
- [19:28]
Michael Malice
Yeah, yeah. There's also this kind of standoffishness about her and this kind of regalness about her. And you're just like, come on, let's go get ice cream. Wearing overalls so people think you are. I think that there's this kind of, like. Like, air about her that you don't really have.
- [19:47]
Meghan McCain
I. Well, I mean, thank you. I think she's shy. Like, and it's. She would be, like, open about saying she shy. So I think that's like. But I agree she's very regal. Like, she definitely, like, if someone told me she was like, princess in her past life. But how we ended up connecting was. Van said, we have a lot in common. We should. We should have lunch. And when, right around that time, I had just again, been public about having a miscarriage for a lot of different reasons. And I was going through, like, a lot of fertility shit. And she texted me and was like. Van said, you know, we should maybe give this another shot. And I would love to have lunch with you after I. I'm coming. On the View. It was like, in a few weeks, because, again, some time had passed since the first interaction, and I was like, at that point in time, I was, like, very lonely, very isolated, going through this horrible trauma. Anyone that's had a miscarriage is brutal. And just still, like, just physically recovering and just, like, on the View, I just felt like I was losing my mind because I was so isolated and being told I was, like, evil every day backstage. So she texted me, and I was like, you know what? It. Okay, great. And then, of all people, my husband was like, you're really misreading her. Like, she really loves America. She's in the military. I agree with Van. So we ended up having lunch after she came on the View. It was much more happy, polite experience when she came on. And then we ended up having lunch for, like, it was, like, four hours. And I was, like, crying. And she basically opened up. And I'm not speaking out of turn. We did an interview about this about a year ago. She had been going through IVF and had a lot of fertility struggles.
- [21:21]
Michael Malice
Okay.
- [21:22]
Meghan McCain
We really bought. I was like. And I hadn't really talked about it with anyone. And all my girlfriends, like, at the time were just, like, having babies really easily. And we really, like, we prayed together. Like, I was like, I'm so sorry. I was so mean. I would asshole. Like, blah, blah, blah. And she's, like, such a forgiving, loving person. She was like, no. And then she was running for president at the time, and I was like, nobody understands how awful running for president can be other than me. Please call me if you need anything. Anything. And so basically, we just, like, started texting about, like, just normal shit on the campaign trail. I would send her, like, care packages of, like, pajamas and candles and things that she could try and relax when she was on the road. I ended up going to some of her events. She invited me to be her guest, which I really fucking regret not doing, to the debate where she slaughtered Kamala. And I just couldn't go because of my view schedule at the time. And I really regret not taking time off because I would have been, like, fabulous to watch in person. And our friendship just grew over time. And that was, like. Was in 2018, so it's 2025, however long that is. And we just became really close. And then one of the things we really bond over is people really love us, but people also really hate us. And we both feel, like, misunderstood, I think, by the media and have been really targeted for all the wrong reasons. And we really bonded over that. And she's just, like, I feel very privileged that I get to have this kind of relationship with her because she doesn't let a lot of people close to her. And she's just funny and fun and kind, and I can always rely on her when I. It doesn't matter. Like, she's, like, been in India and Thailand and traveling right now. And I can still text, right? Something happened that I need her advice on. She'll always text me back. Like, she's just kind, and, like, she makes me feel really safe and seen, which I think is a hard thing in any friendship. And I love her very much. And I really regret ever being mean to her. I was, you know, but again, like, we all evolve and change. And, you know, even on her meeting with Assad, I've evolved on the way I view it. And I've, I've evolved in the way I view American wars. Getting so many other people have. So, you know, and I'm lucky that you and other people like her have shown me grace to, to evolve. Is there anything else you want to know?
- [23:34]
Michael Malice
Yeah, there's a lot to ask here because one of the questions people like, how are you friends with this her? I'm like, isn't it a good thing that I have Meghan McCain's ear and when we talk about like foreign policy that she's actually listening to me. Isn't that what you would want? Like, that's how you persuade people. So that's the big question. When you said you guys are, you know, Van Jones says you guys are similar people, which I still don't, don't see. She, her big claim to fame is foreign policy and being, you know, very anti interventionist. And you, you're kind of one of the things you're very known for is having that strong, robust American military and I wouldn't know if you use this term but like kind of policeman of the world and having this Pax Americana. So have your views changed on that? Like, what's your thinking at now?
- [24:15]
Meghan McCain
A few things have happened. The first and foremost is that my brother Jimmy deployed for the first time when he was 17 and I was 19. And he has done more deployments than I can honestly count. I think it's somewhere like 10 maybe, give or take. My brother Jack also went to Afghanistan. My brother in law served multiple tours. My sister in law is in the military. My other sister in law is the military. Like, I'm just completely surrounded by people in the military who've gone on deployments. And he actually talked to me a few years ago and he was like, I just don't think you understand what you're saying. I'm the most isolationist, anti interventionist person on the planet because a. I was lied to about the wars I went to fight in. Wow. Yeah. I mean weapons of mass destruction is like a big thing obviously for like, you know, what do they call them? A generation kill? The Afghanistan Iraq veterans. And I think the war went on for so long and, and you know, I think really it's my brother Jimmy that has made like the most significant impact. And my, my brother in law Ellis. No one, I mean when I say they, they will do almost anything not to go to war. I mean they will do almost anything not to go to war. Like their, their first response is normally like, is it America's business. And I agree to a point. But like, there are obviously situations like, I'm still a supporter of like helping Ukraine, but that's a big one, is just like the personal part of it, you know, like, and I've seen this full blown sacrifices he's had to make with his just, you know, I mean, not to get like, too dark, but he had a good friend who we, I really, I loved and he was so kind and, you know, we spent a really wonderful New Year's, like, partying and having fun with him in like 2000, God, like 2011 or 2012. And he committed suicide shortly after. So it's like I have also, even though I'm like, you know, nepo, baby, whatever, it's not like we haven't experience these type of things. So that's a big part of it. The second part of it is when I see people like Bill Kristol, who I used to really respect and really think we're really smart, completely lose their mind in this way on social media and in real life, saying things about Trump that like, I'm always like, if Trump didn't break my brain, what's your fucking excuse? I just don't trust their judgment because they don't think they're living in the world that we're living in. And I mean, like, reality. And I also feel like, again, I wouldn't never describe myself as interventionist or anything like that, but I also know that, like, my point of view is wildly out of touch with where the American public is at a certain point. You have to listen to what the American public wants. And again, like, there's certain specific, like, I am a big supporter of Israel. I think we should always have Israel's back, particularly after October 7th. And like, you know, fuck Hamas, like, whatever. But there's other situations that, like, I really listened to my brother first. So explanation.
- [27:02]
Michael Malice
That's really because to Bill Crystal and other, these, you know, because you're, you're anti Trump and you're not never Trump. Like, I will never understand how if you're someone who's pro life, which you are, how you cannot say, you know what, this guy's awful, he's stupid, whatever, racist, whatever you want to say. He overturned Roe v. Wade. Like, that's the big one. Like, like this is the crown jewel for the pro life movement for a very long time, saving the lives of the unborn. So I don't understand how you can think this guy's the worst person who ever walked the face of the earth, how you can't give this kudos for making that happen. Like, that's clearly what everyone wanted from the pro life side.
- [27:37]
Meghan McCain
It's my problem. And I just don't understand it from people like Liz Cheney and like Adam Kinzinger, who, by the way, just continues to go after me on social media in a way that seems just like, pretty unstable.
- [27:49]
Michael Malice
You understand? Liz Cheney is a very bad person.
- [27:52]
Meghan McCain
Well, I don't know her just for whatever. Like, I don't, like, I don't know her at all.
- [27:55]
Michael Malice
And I, I don't know her.
- [27:57]
Meghan McCain
I don't know. Well, I think people maybe assume, like, you know, I don't think I've ever met her. But, like, there was a certain point, like, early in the beginning, like early when she was first a Congress person, I was like, oh, maybe she can be cool. And then when you make hating Trump your whole identity and like you said, you can't give him kudos for things like for me, Roe v. Wade, like him signing this bill to ban trans athletes and women's sports. Like, it issue something extremely important to me. Like you, I take Trump in a case by case basis and like, him appointing Tulsi to dni. Like, I fought really hard for her. I'm so excited, so happy. Like, I give him his wins when he has earned them. And I don't understand why people like Bill Kristol and Liz Cheney can't be nuanced enough to do that. And also, like, why are you not reflecting on why the American people love him so much, why they trusted him? Like, this isn't just about me as. And I feel like if, if I want to be a good commentator and be someone that people still trust and listen to, I have to be intellectually honest. And I don't find any of that stuff intellectually honest. And I don't believe democracy is on the line with him in power. I just don't believe that because honestly, fucking democracy was on the line that I had a president with mashed potatoes for a brain and God knows who was running the country for six months. It's. You're laughing, but it's true. The fuck was running America when Biden was in office, you know, and we all, it got exposed at a debate, and then what if that debate had never happened, would you just have a shadow president like Weekend at Bernie's? Like, you're telling me that, like, Trump is worse than that? Sorry, I don't believe it.
- [29:21]
Michael Malice
But it was also funny just to speak to how screwed up the Corporate, not malevolent. The corporate press is Biden stepped down for after that debate from nomination, but there was never any questions about why is this guy not resigning. Like, if this was a Republican president, literally every day there'd be, oh, sources say 22nd Amendment or why is this guy still in the White House. Every little rumor would be top page news, front page news in the New York Times. They never even acknowledged why he stepped down. Like, they never made him say it. He like said, okay, I'm stepping down. But there wasn't. Like they didn't ask Karine Jean Pierre, why is he stepping down? They said, oh, he's not gonna do well. Okay, why isn't he doing well? Say it like they won't they
- [30:03]
Meghan McCain
feeble and firm. And then, I mean, I remember and I'm sure you had this happen too. Like I remember hearing crazy rumors about him like during. When he was in. Because D.C. is very gossipy, you know, I remember just hearing crazy shit about Biden and being like, if that's true, we are like, what is you heard just that like same thing. Like he was falling asleep very early that he couldn't. Like I had friends of friends, a very dear friends. A husband was in a meeting with him and basically came back. I asked her and she was like, he's terrified. Like he, he was repeating himself a million times. He didn't seem to understand that, you know, the topics of the meeting just same things that like came out. But, you know, I always felt like I'm not a journalist here. So like, if I'm hearing it, then some really good reporters are. And there were people like Alex Thompson, who I really respect and appreciate. But I have major questions about why he's writing a book about this with Jake Tapper, who was one of the main people covering up Biden's health conspiracy. And I just feel like I am not going to give a pass to Jake Tapper or anyone else who made me feel like I was the things that people said to me and about as. Yeah, like that I have somehow like betrayed my family like that. I'm a disgusting person. All this stuff because I was like, I see for my eyes and everybody else does. I can see what's going on. I had. I was a caregiver to a parent that had cognitive decline as well. I can see anyone who has can see things. You just can't. I'm sorry. There's certain signs and to me he was displaying them. And I'm just not going to buy a book from a CNN reporter that's telling me that he knew all along and decided not to report on it.
- [31:39]
Michael Malice
Like, really, how senile do you have to be when you fall up the stairs? I mean, that's really senile.
- [31:44]
Meghan McCain
It's really tragic because we will all, God willing, get old. Like, I hope I'm as old as my grandmother was, but we. I really am, like, a big proponent. And people always find this ironic because my dad died in office. But, like, I actually think age limits are going to be imperative to this country in office in general.
- [32:01]
Michael Malice
But, Megan, this is why I think age limits are not as good as they sound, because the replacement for Nancy Pelosi isn't going to be Tulsa Gabbard. It's going to be aoc. So if you get rid of all these old Democrats, it's not. You're going to be filling them with people you like better.
- [32:15]
Meghan McCain
That's a valid point. I have no rebuttal to that because I don't want her inside.
- [32:23]
Michael Malice
Let's get back to the show. Let's talk a bit about going to the Oval Office with Tulsi. Were you. Were you nervous about going there, do you think?
- [32:30]
Meghan McCain
It was very.
- [32:32]
Michael Malice
Let's talk about this.
- [32:33]
Meghan McCain
Very, very nervous. Very nervous. Michael. She asked me, like, because she. You could bring, like, very close friends to come and watch the swearing in. And I'd gone with her to her hearing and the parties after and just, you know, helped. Helped her, like, you know, behind the scenes a little bit. And then just, you know, really, I think publicly, I was just trying to show as much support as I could. I wrote Op Ed, I went on Sean Hannity. Like, I was just doing as much as I can because I do think that, like, I am a different kind of person that loves her and supports her. You know, I think most people are, like, more libertarian, maybe former Democrats, whatever. And I love her and I'm so proud of her. But when she asked me to go, I said, I don't know if this is a great idea because I don't want to be a distraction. And I don't consider myself a dramatic person. But drama really does tend to follow me wherever I go. Michael. Like, I really, I, you know, I'm like a Real Housewives character. But she was, like, insistent and defiant that I go with her. And up until, like, the day before, I was like, are you. I'm not. My feelings aren't going to be hurt. I don't. And she was like, it's really important that you and Ben are there. And I went In. And the Oval Office. I've never been in the Oval Office before because everybody I love loses or everyone that wins feuds with my family, like Republicans that when, like, Bush and stuff, like, hate my family. So I've never been to Oval Office, never been to the White House Christmas party. Like, nothing like that. I'm always, like, banished. I know.
- [33:56]
Michael Malice
Let's pause. Let's pause this because you are, like, one of the biggest patriots I know. Your family's been here since Revolutionary War times. Your blood runs red, white, and blue, so. And it would be the same for me, like, to be in the Oval Office. This is, like, sacred ground, even though I'm an anarchist. But it's like, this is America, what America should be at its finest. Like, the idea. So was there that there must have been that moment of awe for you?
- [34:17]
Meghan McCain
Well, they. They take your phone when you go in again, I'd never been before. They take your phone. You're in, like, a waiting room. It's, like, right outside the Oval Office. And I was there with just, you know, some of her other friends and her family, and I was just like, this is wild. Like, you know, it's, like, wild. And I was very nervous. And then you go in the Oval Office, and she had, you know, quite a few people with her, and there was a press corps in there as well, so it was, like, kind of tight. And there was also the fireplace was lit because it was cold that day. But, like, a lot of people in a room and a fireplace, like, it gets warm, and I was, like, so overcome with, like, just awe of the experience and being in the Oval Office and watching her get sworn in. I cried the entire time. Like, my mascara was all over my face when I left. Like, I just was really overcome with the moment and seeing her and, like, being, like, five feet away from Trump, and we locked eyes quite a few times. And I have to say, he's been, like, a total gentleman to me before this and after, like, through his people, like, beyond nice. So I'm hoping this is, like, a new era with me and Trump and my family and Trump, and he, like, could not have been nicer and more. More hospitable. And I found out afterward he had to okay me being there because the President has to okay every guest. So he could have been like, no, fuck her, you know, but he did not, so it was lovely.
- [35:33]
Michael Malice
So. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Let's. Let's break this down a little bit. Like, when you. Was that the first time you were in the same room? With him?
- [35:40]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. Is that the first. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
- [35:42]
Michael Malice
So what's going through your head when he steps in? You're like, holy shit, it's Donald Trump.
- [35:47]
Meghan McCain
Just that, like, you know, it's like Elvis or something. It's like, he's just such a larger than life figure. And he's also just, like, a tall man. Like, I didn't realize he's, like, quite as tall as he is. He was also. He was making fun of the press. He did a press conference after she was sworn in, and there was a guy asking a question, which is, like, a really dumb question that even I didn't understand. He had an accent. And President Trump goes, who are you with? And he goes, like, afp. And he goes, what is that? Because I thought the same thing. Like, what is that? And he goes, it's something French core. And he goes, oh, like. And I laughed. Like, I laughed in the back because I was like, oh, my God. He's, like, joshing this, like, French reporter. And then somebody else said something, and he was like, this is why people like, you aren't good at your job. And I was like, this is the best show I've ever seen. Like, just trash the press in front of me in the Oval Office all day. I will sit for hours watching this. And it was just like, crazy and made me feel really patriotic. It was very overwhelming. I was exhausted, by the way, at the end of it, like, I went home and took a nap after, and there was a dinner for her that night. But I was like, oh, my God, there's so much energy in the Oval Office and in here. But it was a really amazing experience. And like I said, I'm really very grateful that Trump didn't say. He could have said no. And this is why people say that he's changed since he had his assassination attempt. I think his inclusion of me and Ben is like, an example of that.
- [37:09]
Michael Malice
I. I made the comment that I think it's like a cartoon, that they shot his ear and it flicked the switch and now he became based, like. Like, what happens if you shoot him again? They're like, no, no, it's the reset button. And I also made the comments several times recently that there was a conspiracy theory in 2024 that Biden had been replaced by a double. Like, mean. Rogan talked about it. But then also, I'm like, I think Trump said, what's that?
- [37:32]
Meghan McCain
Is that true?
- [37:33]
Michael Malice
It's not. There's, like, footage where it looked like he was, like, 6 inches tall. Like, Like, A different sizes. It was the angle, I think. But I think this is a body double because this is not the same person who we all were with president for four years. Like the thing, if, if everyone who sat who's a Trump supporter, if you set them down in like November, they're like, all right, if he does 1, 2 and 3, I'll be happy. Like, I'm like, I have realism, expectations. I know what he's up against. We've been through this before. Look at the alternative. This is just not a hard choice for me. But he got those three things done in the first week and he kept going. Everyone's like, what is going on here? Because we've all been around politics long enough. This is the first president who has over delivered. That's never happened before. They promise everything. Come in. Bill Clinton, day one, I think it was. He's like, yeah, I promised I was, I wasn't going to raise taxes, but I have to like, it was like, like the first week.
- [38:18]
Meghan McCain
Yeah, read my lips. No new taxes. And then. Yeah, yeah. So I, I really, I mean I hope it, I'm sure it's gonna piss some people off. I'm really enjoying this Trump years. I'm really enjoying Trump 2.0 on a lot of different levels. Like I feel like this is like especially like in my life because I've just been like shit on for so long for being a Republican. Like seeing that it's like socially, like you're like a kind of a, you know, you're an uptight loser. If you're a liberal and you're a Democrat. Like to see like being in the cool kids to see like culturally so many people come to the culture issues that I've been on for so long. Like I'm really enjoying the second Trump term. I hope that doesn't sound weird to people. I'm sure to some people it does. But just on a political standpoint and cultural standpoint, like keep doing what he's doing. I'm really enjoying it.
- [39:04]
Michael Malice
So I'm assuming you didn't vote for him.
- [39:06]
Meghan McCain
I did not. No. I wrote in here.
- [39:09]
Michael Malice
I think, I think in his own name. Don't you think?
- [39:15]
Meghan McCain
Probably, you know, had he not. Had I not had the Family Feud, I would have. But I felt like it was karmically, I felt like it was karmically it would have been a bad thing to do for my just own family karma and, but politically I'm, I mean that is not an easy, a hard choice for me between him and Kamala.
- [39:36]
Michael Malice
And I think it's also not a hard choice for you between him and Trump 1.0.
- [39:41]
Meghan McCain
I like this. Obviously, I like this version of him much better, you know, and I. I feel like I understand it more. I think everybody does. And I really just. It's up a little bit, but the schadenfreude I'm getting watching Democrats just, you know, wiggle like a worm on a hook, you know, and seeing that, like, you know, the. The issue of trans athletes in sports has. Is like the third rail that if you grab it, you know what's going to happen. That's the issue. Andy Cohen's pissed at me and will never probably talk to me again.
- [40:09]
Michael Malice
Let's talk about that.
- [40:10]
Meghan McCain
Sure. So I put a tweet out about the volleyball player who was invited to the. It's not the State of the Union, the national address that. Whatever that Trump did. And I had met her at a IWF women's event that was a rally for keeping biological men out of female sports. And I met her backstage, and she told me the story of being hit in the head with a volleyball by a biological male player. And she had brain damage, and she was in the hospital, and it obviously, like, ruined her athletic career.
- [40:44]
Michael Malice
Oh, my God.
- [40:45]
Meghan McCain
Yeah, you should talk to her, have her on, if you're interested. And one of the things that shocked me the most is I said. I said, what happened when you're in the hospital? And she said, like, the doctors were like, how could this happen with a volleyball? Like, how could this happen with a volleyball player? And then when the doctors realized what had actually happened, she said there were some people that, like, didn't even want to, like, touch the situation because it's so, like, hotbed politically.
- [41:06]
Michael Malice
Can I interrupt this? Because this is why. This is such. This is. There's some issues where it's like, okay, if we raise taxes on the rich, we pay for more welfare. You could wrap your head around the arguments, Right? It's not hard to understand. Or, we need to have more foreign policy abroad or else the people will come here. You can understand the arguments. This is one where it's entirely disingenuous from start to finish. And here's how you can prove it. If you take two biological females and one of them runs testosterone, which is steroids, for 10 years, and then she stops, is she going to have an advantage over the other biological female who never ran testosterone her whole life? And obviously, the answer is yes. Steroids are illegal in sports because they give you a Huge advantage. So even taking gender out of it, if you're going to, you're just brazenly lying and you know you're lying. And this is one of those examples where there's no point having conversation because it's completely dishonest from start to finish.
- [41:56]
Meghan McCain
I agree, but. And it's also a, I don't know if it's 8020 or 7030 issue. Like the vast majority of the Americans, like agree with you and me were
- [42:05]
Michael Malice
you just, you, you must have been just like me, like biting your, your fist with giddiness when Trump called out the main governor to her face.
- [42:13]
Meghan McCain
Love day. That's what I'm talking about. That call him out. You know, let moms and women with young daughters, like I do, Let them know how she feels, how that governor feels. Let them know. And the thing that I don't understand is. So she had, she had brain damage. This, this volleyball player and still to this day has long term effects. Like she told me she has like dizzy spells, still issues with vision. Like it's a horrific, horrific story. So I put a post on my Twitter about it and Andy Cohen answered like, and I'm, I don't remember verbatim, but it was like, surprised to see you with your former LGBT allyship. Like being part of transphobia. Like these, you know, you're attacking.
- [42:52]
Michael Malice
It's not phobia when someone has brain damage. Well, it's like if I've got bitten by a spider, my arm fell off.
- [43:00]
Meghan McCain
I, I totally agree. But like my answer to him and I answered, I was like, hey, you have my, you have my cell phone number. You can text or call at any time. Like, this is just on a manner standpoint, terribly rude. I've been on your show like I think 40 times and I've known him since I was 25, I'm now 40. So I was just shocked that he would just be so rude. And then my question to him and people on the other side is, you know what?
- [43:22]
Michael Malice
I bet it is. I bet you his. He gets shit every day. Why do you have her on?
- [43:26]
Meghan McCain
I agree the same thing. He has to cover his ass because he's had me on his show. I totally agree with that. Clearly he ended up calling me and apologizing. He didn't publicly. Big apologize privately. I mean, not for we. He still disagrees with me on the issue, but for doing it publicly. So, you know, there's. That would have been better to have a tweet publicly, but you know, whatever. Can't anger Your base. So why.
- [43:51]
Michael Malice
It's also disingenuous because there's lots of gay men and women who think this is so. Don't pretend this LGBT, that 100 even. I don't even know what percent is who are thinking, yeah, this is fine.
- [44:02]
Meghan McCain
I totally. Look, you and I are on the same page.
- [44:04]
Michael Malice
And also for the audience, like, it's so. It's so phony.
- [44:07]
Meghan McCain
I agree. And my question to him and to all the other people on this issue. So, okay, so she had brain damage. So how many women getting brain damage is okay with you? 5. Like, my thing is, like, why is violence against women, long term violence against women, sacrificing a handful of women because
- [44:23]
Michael Malice
they're like, megan, you were co host of the View. You gave women brain damage for years, so now you kind of flip the script because Trump's president. Is that where we are?
- [44:31]
Meghan McCain
Low blow right there. It's a low blow. Ballast. It's a low blow. I just do what I can. I've got to atone for my. For my time on that show somehow giving people. Do you know what? I hear something really funny. I had a Venmo. That was my real name for a while. Like, stupidly. I don't. I don't know why I did it. And people found it and someone tried to Venmo me, requesting a hundred dollars for emotional damage, for being forced to watch the View with my grandma. And I almost gave them a hundred dollars because I thought it was so funny.
- [44:58]
Michael Malice
You should have. Yeah.
- [45:00]
Meghan McCain
Yes.
- [45:00]
Michael Malice
But I should have said, here, take her to dinner. That'll be a nice gesture.
- [45:03]
Meghan McCain
But my Venmo is now private.
- [45:05]
Michael Malice
It's a different.
- [45:06]
Meghan McCain
But at the time, I was like. I thought that was. I was like, okay, that was pretty funny. Anyway, what I was saying, we're talking about Andy. Oh, just that, like, I find so much of this, like, like, deep rooted in, like, misogyny. It's like, so a few women getting brain damage, a few women getting physically hurt. Like, what about, like, he has a daughter. So, like, if that happened to his daughter, like, you're okay with it? Like, we can sacrifice some women for this? Like, weird. You know, Like, I said something that I find just completely, deeply, not only intellectual, but immoral. Like, I just find it so fascinating that some people are like, so she got brain damage and she was hospitalized and I believe in a coma. It's fine, it's fine.
- [45:47]
Michael Malice
This is volleyball. It's not like football where you're expecting. You know, sometimes you get tackled really hard and up or boxing.
- [45:54]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. I believe the video is on online. I believe like, I believe the video of her getting injured is online. But you know, hearing stories like that and just like, you know, I've gotten to know Riley Gaines and a lot of these athletes in this space and Jennifer say who, you know, left Levi's as the CEO over, you know, anti woke stuff too and is a big proponent on this issue. And I just. But that's the one. That's the one. If you grab that third rail and you come out on this side of it. Yeah. You'll never get invited to watch what happens live again.
- [46:28]
Michael Malice
Let's get back to the show. I, I feel like they have to have this stigma because if there was any remotely honest discussion, this issue, it's not an issue. It's so unambiguous.
- [46:42]
Meghan McCain
Why die on this hill like this one that's so unpopular and so like, I don't get it.
- [46:47]
Michael Malice
I'll tell you why. Because every organization is going to keep growing until it reaches a stop where it's told. No, I talk about this in my book. Then you write the March of dimes and FDRs on the dime was founded to stop polio. Right. It's a huge organization and they're successful. Polio's eradicated. But they didn't dissolve. They're like, okay, now we're going to fight other childhood diseases. So you have this huge activist network. Gay marriage is a thing. People are not homophobic in this country. Like you could be out and Times Square is covered in pride flags, which something when, if you and I were kids was unimaginable. So they just, you have this huge momentum. It's got to go somewhere.
- [47:25]
Meghan McCain
I don't understand it. And like I said, when I see John Fetterman who's supposed to be like the great hope of the left, voting, you know, against a bill that would ban trans.
- [47:33]
Michael Malice
Vote against this.
- [47:34]
Meghan McCain
He voted against it. And I'm just like, he's full of too. Like, you're full. I'm like. And I literally. This is like a big issue for me for a lot of different reasons.
- [47:43]
Michael Malice
A lot of women.
- [47:45]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. But like John to me over it, like, okay, I see you, I see you. You're just like them. Like, you may be great on Israel and I really appreciate it. But like you're just like, you're, you are not, you are not like me at all.
- [47:58]
Michael Malice
But it's also the kind of thing like, sure, you could be all for inclusion, but like if I'm born paraplegic and I'm in a wheelchair. There's certain sports I can't play. And to give me like ramps to play volleyball. This is ridiculous. There's a point where it's like, okay, you have gender dysphoria, fine, that's terrible. Or whatever. We can accommodate you in certain contexts. But this idea that every, every door is gonna be open to you makes every door is then open to every woman or every man.
- [48:23]
Meghan McCain
I also, like, obviously I want everyone to have. Be treated equally under the law and have the same rights in the sense of like, you know, not discriminated against. Like, you know, wouldn't be put in any situation where they felt unsafe. I just don't understand why I have to be put in situations where I feel unsafe. And it seems like there's just, it's, it's, it's crazy to me. And I, I really have been really disheartened and saddened by so many people that I have seen so much cowardice on this issue about. And Jennifer say says because she used to be an athlete as well. They're like, being a high level, elite athlete, like, it's meant to be exclusionary. It's only for the best. So, like, the idea that, like, we're gonna accept everybody and like, you know, you can take some hormones and then you can beat all the girls. Like, it's just. And anybody saying different is just not being honest with themselves. And I also am very in a post covet time. Like my. And you remember, like, what I was like during COVID I was having a breakdown the whole time because I was so pissed and everything. I am very acutely aware and alarmed by people who do not live in reality, who are masking when a virus isn't killing anybody, who are telling me I can't go outside to a beach. Like, you're telling me that biological men are just the same as women. No, it's not. You are not living in reality. And I automatically have an alarm up about what kind of person you are.
- [49:36]
Michael Malice
Yeah, it's, it's a rap. Like, it's like you're, you're, you're trying to get over something or like you're delusional. Like, it's. We're not, we can't, we can't have a normal conversation.
- [49:43]
Meghan McCain
Totally agree. Totally.
- [49:45]
Michael Malice
What people don't realize you called me during COVID and you said like, do you have milk? And I'm like. And I go, I think to myself, is this code like, what does she want me to literally milk in the store. We don't have milk here. And I'm like, yeah, are you? So, Ben, your husband Ben from the Spectator, was recently in the Oval Office interviewing President Trump. He sent me a picture. He was very proud. I photoshopped it because there was a big whiteboard behind him, and I photoshopped to say, today's guest, Mr. Meghan McCain. Was that something that you were nervous? Like, what was going through your head? I mean, to have this kind of rapprochement, for lack of a better word, between you and the. The Trump family, that must be something. I. I know you hold grudges. I held them, too. But I feel like, given that this is America that's at stake because he's the president, I feel like this a grudge you'd be happy to bury, I
- [50:39]
Meghan McCain
will never, like, forget, but I'm happy to have this over. It feels over to me. It really does. Like, for a lot of different reasons. And again, like, I don't want to. I've been asked not to. To say so. I won't. But, like, his. His team has sent us messages from him and to me. And again, I just don't want to say it because, like, I think it's off the record, but I think when he. When Ben went to the White House. Look, I love Ben, and I want him to be successful in getting an exclusive with any president. He had gotten one with Biden, I would be just as successful. Crazy. I will say I helped him workshop questions the way he does before I have big things. And I specifically asked him to ask the President who he thinks left cocaine in the White House. That was the question I want the answer to, obviously. And the President said, who do you think? So we all think it's Hunter Biden. And I guess he gives an explanation about, like, you know, they need to look into how that really happened. But I still want to know why, like, you could just have cocaine lying around the White House.
- [51:33]
Michael Malice
And I don't think it was Hunter.
- [51:35]
Meghan McCain
You don't? I do. Who do you think it is?
- [51:36]
Michael Malice
I. I don't. Because I was. It was. If I don't think it was on the personal area, I don't. Here's the thing. Here's the thing about cocaine. Hunter's not leaving around his cocaine. Hunter's doing his cocaine. So this is someone who's much more recreational.
- [51:53]
Meghan McCain
Okay, well, regardless. What the hell, what kind of people you have in the White House, leaving cocaine in the White House.
- [51:59]
Michael Malice
What's even crazier is that. That they could have Just as easily left. Anthrax.
- [52:03]
Meghan McCain
Yes.
- [52:04]
Michael Malice
It's a powder. That's a huge felony. And you're just like, man. And the corporate press didn't care, didn't give a shit.
- [52:10]
Meghan McCain
Wanted to bury it and make it go away.
- [52:12]
Michael Malice
Yeah. So it was. What do you think of the new press secretary and the job she's doing?
- [52:17]
Meghan McCain
I like her. I think she's cool. I think she's. I was like a feral, dumb animal when I was her age. I think she's, like 27 or 28. I think she's, like, doing a really good job. But I like an aggressive press secretary who's good at their job. And I thought Karina Jean Pierre was, like, borderline. Like, I felt like something was actually wrong with her. Like, she didn't seem to know how to speak in public. And if you're a press secretary for White House, it's obviously a.
- [52:42]
Michael Malice
She had a tough job. You know, all the conservatives who go after her. Not saying you are. I'm on Twitter. You can imagine trying to do her job. You know what I mean?
- [52:49]
Meghan McCain
I think I could have done it better.
- [52:51]
Michael Malice
Sure. Okay. Yeah.
- [52:52]
Meghan McCain
I think whatever that's worth. Like, I mean, I wouldn't want to because I wouldn't want to, like, lie for a living, but I think I could have done it better. She seems so, like, she always seems to, like, shocked that she was being asked really normal questions. So again, even having, like, a tone shift with, like, a tough, aggressive press secretary, like, I like it. I think she's cool, but I wouldn't want. I don't want that job. It seems like a very difficult job.
- [53:14]
Michael Malice
So there was already polling about Katie Hobbs, who's currently governor of Arizona, the state you're princess of. And there are a few names that were tossed into the mix, one of whom is your brother. Can you speak on whether he's considering running for governor of Arizona?
- [53:27]
Meghan McCain
He is not. And that was just a name that was put in for whatever. Both of my brothers have been thrown around. I actually think that was my brother Jack, who is my first youngest brother. And I have two younger brothers and two older brothers. My brother Jimmy is the one I would watch a lot more, and he's the one who. Give him a break. He endorsed Vice President Harris and, like, is it become a Democrat since then? But he's actually, I think, like, much more, like, not now or anytime soon, but if I had to, like, go in a crystal ball, I think he's, like, much more fitted for politics than. Than me or my other Siblings.
- [54:01]
Michael Malice
Is there any part of you that is tempted to ever run for political office?
- [54:06]
Meghan McCain
No. It seems awful. Like. And it just seems like, I don't know. And Arizona is the only place I could ever run in and I'm not. And it's so, like, I love Arizona. And I really, like. It's like, you know, my favorite place. And I feel like I really understand the people. But it's so funny to me because I don't think anyone, like, the governors or the senators are, like, a great representation of Arizonans at all. So it's like, you know, why can't Republicans win there anymore? Is it because we're just putting up dumbasses like Carrie Lake? Probably. But it's still. I can't stand her. And I don't care who knows it. That's one I don't forgive, by the way. That's the one. I'm like, no. So I got in a fight with Ruben Gallego in public.
- [54:45]
Michael Malice
Hold on, hold on. Let's talk about this, because there's two of my favorite things about Megan is one of the things that's really fun as an author or just a writer is when you have a character and they have this weird, weird, like, very minor, like, side quest or, like, characteristic about them that's out of nowhere, but it's just so idiosyncratic. And you, you have a pathological. I'm not using this word loosely. Hatred of the British and all things British. And it just springs out of nowhere. And it's just really, really fun and funny. And the other thing that I really like is, I don't blame you, by the way, but you really, really hate Carrie Lake. And you're very public and open about it, and you go off all the time and she said, olive branch.
- [55:25]
Meghan McCain
And you're just like, you, I'll kill your family.
- [55:27]
Michael Malice
So can you talk a little bit about that?
- [55:30]
Meghan McCain
I said no peace. That's what I said. We all heard it. So this is the thing I've known Carrie likes. When I was a kid, she was a local anchor in Arizona.
- [55:38]
Michael Malice
Okay.
- [55:39]
Meghan McCain
She used to be very close to the same brother I was just talking about. Who.
- [55:42]
Michael Malice
Oh, personal. Okay. I didn't know that.
- [55:45]
Meghan McCain
Went to his baby shower with his. His wife when our first child. Like, I know Carrie. I know who she used to be. I knew her when she was an Obama supporter and a Buddhist. Okay. So I. And was like. I did interviews with her. Like, she was lovely. I don't know what this is. And again, if you want to go full MAGA imitation, that's fine. That's certainly a pathway that some people have taken to get to run for office. But on my family and shitting on my dad in his home state, running for office in his old office, that he never lost an election and held an office for like 35 years, I just found it like, bizarre and gross and like, what's you. It was so unnecessary. And for people that don't know, she said McCain voters can get the hell out. And then ironically, she lost by, I think it was like 12 points. And that statistically is around the amount of people who consider themselves McCain Republicans in Arizona. So that irony is a little delicious. But I think she's an idiot. All she does is lose. She has a really dumb job now, which I'm very happy about because it's like, who cares about radio internationally? I'm sorry, I do not. I think it's boring. And yeah, I'm really happy. She has no future in politics. It's great. Would you find out she would have
- [56:53]
Michael Malice
been great on the View, don't you think?
- [56:55]
Meghan McCain
Oh, yes, she's. That she should do that job. That's actually a great job. I actually fully 100% endorsed Carrie Lake being the next co host of the View. I actually think, like, legitimately she would be very good at it.
- [57:05]
Michael Malice
She would. I've had her on the show a couple times. She's very quick.
- [57:09]
Meghan McCain
And it's gonna be awkward for you that Carrie.
- [57:11]
Michael Malice
I. I've never talked to her outside the show, so I don't persuasion with her. And she. She's very quick, very well spoken, very aggressive and antagonistic. And I think she'd do a good job of putting Joy in her place I.
- [57:27]
Meghan McCain
That I would fully endorse and love. So she should do that instead.
- [57:32]
Michael Malice
When you told her no peace in those words, was there any response from her or her campaign, either public or privately?
- [57:40]
Meghan McCain
Yeah, they were like, you're being disgusting or you're being crass and you're being, you know, you're not seeing the forest for the trees. But I'm like, you know, I'm not like, again, like, there are different situations where I'm not always, like, not a forgiver. I've certainly forgiven people in different factions in my life because, you know, it's better for me to forget. I don't want to be like someone who just hates everybody. But with her, she also went after my mother and she went after my other brother. Like, she made it like, very personal for a very long time. And I just Felt like you get everything out of this situation. You'll get to be like, I'm cool with the McCain's now, and everything's buried. And McCain voters are. Have, like, you know, free range to vote for me. What do I get out of it? I don't need anything from you and I don't want anything from you. Like, I don't want to be friends with you. And it was interesting. Is like, when I went home to Arizona last summer.
- [58:24]
Michael Malice
I'm sorry. Because I think there's a very big difference between. I'm done with the McCain style of politics, which is just a broad, maybe a shorthand for wing of the party, as opposed to going personally after family members that you've known. That's what's really. I didn't know that about her.
- [58:39]
Meghan McCain
Yeah. And she. She's going after his voters, which, again, whether you like it or not, there are people that still consider themselves that in Arizona.
- [58:46]
Michael Malice
Sure.
- [58:46]
Meghan McCain
And I just felt like, as a politician, I felt like she wanted me to help with those voters. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I just felt like it. She was so cruel and unkind for so long, and she didn't even say. I don't think she said, I'm sorry. She was just like, we need to. And then she said, we're both mothers. And I was like, oh, please, Your kids are in College. My daughter's 2 and 4. Like, we're not this. Like, please. And don't pull. And if anyone knows one thing about me pulling the mother card being like, we're mothers, that is never gonna work on me. Like, I don't think there's, like, I'm gonna automatically get along with someone or not get along with someone because they have kids. It's absurd.
- [59:20]
Michael Malice
So, folks, head over to mouse.locals.com where Megan took questions from supporting listeners. Megan, we're running out of time. What has been your favorite part of this interview?
- [59:30]
Meghan McCain
My favorite part of this interview. I loved. I just love talking shit with you, Malice. The mic can be on or off. I love talking shit with you. I love that you. I will never offend you. I love that you don't give a shit that people make fun of you for being friends with me or give you crap for it. And I think you're brilliant and I think you're so fun and cool. And I saw that you were on Greg Gutfeld, by the way. Congratulations. That's very exciting. Back on Fox because we met. People don't know we met when I was on Fox and he was on Fox and just. Just to, like, hang out in the green room, so. I adore you.
- [59:59]
Michael Malice
Thank you.
- [59:59]
Meghan McCain
So smart.
- [60:00]
Michael Malice
You are welcome.