Mike Cernovich - Episode #400

Summary

YOUR WELCOME with Michael Malice
Episode #400: Mike Cernovich
January 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

For the 400th episode, Michael Malice welcomes back Mike Cernovich, a key thinker of the New Right. The conversation covers the shifting landscape of American and global politics, focusing on:

• The political ramifications of recent events (notably the October 7th attacks and aftermath)
• Realignment and maturity within the Right and MAGA movements
• The influence of wealth and the donor class on American politics
• Changing attitudes on issues like Israel, race, and coalition-building
• A rare dive into Iran’s internal dynamics from a diasporic perspective
  The tone is candid, sometimes sardonic, and deeply insider-focused, as both Malice and Cernovich dissect “inside baseball” in pundit circles and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. State of the Republican Party: Midterms & Realignment

• Malice’s Pessimism about GOP Prospects

  • Malice sets the framework: he believes Republicans face a dire time in the 2026 midterms and 2028 elections. He cites the narrow Trump win over Harris in the prior race, arguing even a modestly stronger Democrat or weaker Republican spells trouble.
  • “The GOP is in trouble... If you get a Democrat who's one point better than her... and a Republican who's one point worse than him... The GOP is in trouble.” (Malice, 02:05)

• Cernovich’s Nuanced (Less Pessimistic) Outlook

  • Cernovich acknowledges challenges but believes the Right became stronger after pivotal events like October 7th and the Israel-Hamas conflict. He discusses the ideological clarity these moments provided to moderate Democrats and Trump-skeptical right-wingers.
  • He highlights the “Maha” coalition (MAGA + ‘harmed by COVID’ contingent) as an emerging, robust force that delivered the Electoral College and now shapes the new Republican base.
  • “People on the right are realizing that the left is just fully anti-civilization... That's really why they hate Israel. They just see it as all part of it.” (Cernovich, 08:09)

2. Israel, the New Right, and Left/Right Realignments

• Right’s Approach to Israel Debates

  • Cernovich claims the Right can openly debate issues related to Israel—neither blindly pro nor anti—while the Left frames everything through “oppressor vs. oppressed” and often demonizes Jews as “evil white people.”
  • He notes the Left's discourse post-October 7th alienated moderate Democrats and pushed some toward the “pro-civilization” New Right.

• Tension in Coalitional Politics

  • Cernovich describes the need for a politically mature coalition, warning against purity tests and “nuking” potential allies over minor disagreements:
    • “For a coalition to work, you're going to have to be around people that you disagree with. And you can't just nuke everybody... Everybody has to grow up.” (Cernovich, 13:56)

3. “Crisis of Extended Adolescence” and Political Maturity

• Political Maturity as a Prerequisite for Winning

  • Comparing immature coalition fights to children bickering, Cernovich repeatedly hammers the theme that the Right (and American politics in general) needs to “grow up.”
  • “Pick your three issues, help everybody win on their issues… If everybody can get 70%, 80%, don't become too pushy and more or less grow up, right?” (Cernovich, 14:55)

• Advice on Infighting and Solidarity

  • Cernovich urges the Right to avoid destructive infighting until after the crucial 2026 midterms.
  • “Why don't we fight in 2027... Try to get the midterms?” (Cernovich, 16:30)

4. Rise of “Anti–Anti-White” Politics

• Key 2028 Issue: “Anti–Anti-White Hatred”
  • Cernovich predicts that the dominant conservative rallying point in 2028 won’t be explicit pro-white politics, but a movement opposing overt anti-white rhetoric.
  • “You’re going to have an anti–anti-white political movement... There's no pro-white coalition, but there's a huge anti–anti-white hatred coalition.” (Cernovich, 22:08)
  • He suggests this position will box Democrats into awkward rhetorical positions during debates, especially if candidates like JD Vance make it a central talking point.
  • On how the Left will respond: “They can't say, I agree with you. They're gonna have to try to, well, I'm against all hatred or... play some kind of rhetorical game... using Scott Adams’s language, the linguistic kill shot.” (Cernovich, 22:34)

5. The Donor Class vs. Political Reality

• Out-of-Touch Elites

  • Both mock how billionaire donors have run out of meaningful things to buy, collecting dinosaur skeletons or rare wines (30:21–35:14).
  • “If you're spending time with the Koch brothers, the Wilkes brothers, Ken Griffin, you're talking to people who... live in a world that isn't reality.” (Cernovich, 34:24)
  • Malice shares an anecdote about a donor not knowing who Kim Jong Il is, illustrating disconnect from global awareness and real issues.

• Class Divide in Political Messaging

  • Cernovich argues: “Ground world is cost of living... Most people don't hate billionaires. They don't have anything and they just don't really care about you... If it's time for your pound of flesh to be extracted, they just don't really care.” (Cernovich, 44:22)
  • He offers practical advice for upward mobility (e.g., investing in low-fee index funds from infancy) as a populist solution.

6. Iran, Diaspora Perspectives, and Information Opacity

• Caveats on Regime Change and Advocacy

  • Malice asks about Iran, noting biases and the opacity of information (“Plato’s Cave”).
  • Cernovich distinguishes between neocon regime change aims and the organic (diasporic) sentiment against Iran’s mullahs. He warns against assuming everything is a Zionist or neocon op and criticizes both left and right media for incomplete coverage.
  • “There's a huge split... The Jewish Iranian component... but then a much larger, I call them secular Muslims... They’re not hardcore pro-Israel... but they're like, ‘Oh yeah, bomb the mullahs’” (Cernovich, 55:35)

• Media Filter Bubbles

  • He laments that conservative media’s unwillingness to provide nuanced coverage forces young right-wingers to consume left-wing agitprop.

7. Broad Critique: Credibility, Coalitions, and the Need for Grown-Ups

• Credibility Crisis Among Pundits

  • Cernovich argues that hawkish establishment types like Douglas Murray and Niall Ferguson have burned their credibility with constant finger-wagging, weakening their influence on realpolitik conversations about places like Iran.

• Mature Discourse as Path Forward

  • “Maybe you can reach more people if you just grow up and you know that people are going to disagree with you and not everybody has your worldview. And that's okay." (Cernovich, 63:22)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Malice (on the Left’s grievance ideology):
  “They really sees politics as a mechanism of historical vengeance... not like, ‘Oh, I’m going to raise tax to the rich and give poor people health care’... this is some other mindset entirely.” (Malice, 20:15)
• Cernovich (on coalition-building):
  “For a coalition to work, you're going to have to be around people that you disagree with. And you can't just nuke everybody.” (13:56)
• Cernovich (on the billionaire class):
  “Rich people have run out of stuff to buy... At the billionaire level, I have a $75 million home next to Larry Ellison... so give me the T-Rex bones.” (34:38)
• Cernovich (summarizing Trump’s 2024 win):
  “The base really is wagging the dog now. The tail’s not wagging the dog anymore.” (31:33)
• Malice (on internet hate):
  “The internet has just become a hate speech machine... Her mentions... ‘your father's getting in hell right now, you fat... and I can't wait for you to join him.’” (64:10)
• Cernovich (on honor culture vs. money culture):
  “I speak the language of, like, honor and courage and virtue... The donor class, they speak the language of money. Everything is about, especially on the right and the libertarian thing.” (49:41)
• Cernovich (on creative decline with success): “Most rock and rollers fall off... they become successful and now they're talking about too many groupies... that's not the source of great art.” (38:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:00–03:00: Malice lays out his pessimistic take on the GOP’s future; invites Cernovich’s counterpoint.
• 03:00–17:59: Cernovich’s monologue about October 7th, shifting coalitions, Maha movement, necessity for maturity, and inside-right debates about Israel.
• 19:11: Political coalition-building compared to Israel’s Knesset model.
• 21:26–23:47: Rise of “anti–anti-white hatred” as the next right-wing rallying point.
• 27:52–31:33: Discussion of the “book deal” incentive for running in Republican primaries.
• 32:27–38:41: Donor-class anecdotes; political implications of wealth and out-of-touch elites.
• 48:00–49:41: Malice’s and Cernovich’s reflections on personal wealth, living large, and existential emptiness.
• 54:38–59:58: Iran, diasporic views, and the challenge of getting accurate information versus propaganda.
• 62:29–63:22: Final thoughts on maturity, disagreement, and politics.

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Conclusion: Episode Takeaways

• The contemporary right is wrestling with internal realignment, maturity, and the challenge of coalition-building in the face of a radicalized left and donor-driven priorities.
• The “anti–anti-white” backlash and the impact of billionaire political influence will likely dominate coming cycles.
• Maturity—in both coalitional dealings and media narratives—is presented repeatedly as the essential missing piece for conservative success.
• The episode balances deep political analysis with biting humor and “sick burns,” offering listeners a look both at pundit “inside baseball” and larger sociopolitical trends.

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End of summary.

Transcript

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[Michael Malice]

Good afternoon. Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. We have with us I didn't realize this, Mike. It's our 400th episode. We have with us a special returning guest, Mike Cernovich. Mike has been one of the thought leaders of the New Right for over a decade. I interviewed you for my book the New Right, which came out, I believe, in 2019. If you remember, at this point I just landed you and I both spoke at Scott Adams Celebration of Life memorial service, which was really kind of very touching and moving and I'm glad we all kept it at a high level and a positive way, which is what Scott would have wanted. Follow him at Cernovich his book Guerrilla Mindset. Mike, I love talking to you because you always have unorthodox takes and you make connections other people don't. So even if I disagree with you, I always end up sitting be like, okay, let me think this through. Because he's coming from a place where he's pulling back a blindfold and I'm like, now I'm seeing information. Let me you I my perspective was that the 2026 midterms are going to be a disaster for the Republicans and that 2028, it's not looking good for the Republican Party. Specifically from this one data point, which is Trump beat Officer Harris by 1.5 points. And I don't need to tell you, but the idiots in the oh well, popular vote doesn't matter. There's something called correlation. The better the popular vote, the more likely you win the electoral vote. And I thought if you get a Democrat who's one point better than her, which is all of them, and a Republican who's one point worse than him, which is all of them. The GOP is in trouble. You had a very different take and it was very prolonged. And now I'm going to sit here and shut up and give you the mic. The. Because you really went into it point by point, and I thought it was extremely edifying. So the floor is yours, sir.

[Mike Cernovich]

Well, well, I'll give the censored version a part of the conversation so people don't clip it because the uncensored version is too easily clipped out of context. But when, when October 7th happened, I, I said, okay, the, this is again why you have to avoid getting clipped. Because I feel like we're with Kanye's statement. I feel like we're entering a more reasonable discourse on some of these issues and the Clippers are going to want to try to recreate controversy. But the, the lesson of October 7th, I think for a lot of guys who weren't paying attention politically or they were kind of like Norman Democrats, was that the right. We sit around all day and we just think about Jews all day. That's all we do is, oh, oh, what are you up to today? Oh, we're, we're just, you know, we're sitting around and we're making charts of who's Jewish and that's like, what we do. And, and a lot, a lot of people really believed it. And then October 7th happened and you were like, oh, wait a minute. These right wing guys are the ones who thought it was bad. And that obviously doesn't mean we agree with the response or everything Israel does. And the left wing people are posting memes. Black Lives Matter is just posting memes of people flying in a paraglider. And of course, there was an infamous tweet. What did you think resistance meant? Essays, tweets, vibes. And so that was sort of a wake up call where they realized that the, the rowdy right or the new right, however you want to think about it, says a lot of things because we, you know, we believe in open discourse, but we're still fundamentally pro civilization and pro order. So they realized that they were, they were riding maybe with the wrong crowd. So when that happened, I said this was going to be a real problem for the Democrats because they, the, the lefties can't have a reasonable conversation about Israel because they see everything through the, the means of oppressor and the oppressed. And Jews are essentially seen as just evil white people that, that's how they code everything. So that happened. I said, okay, well, with October 7th happening that you don't want to ever Say something. A tragedy is good or bad for somebody. That can be a little. That can be a little glib. But I knew politically that was creating a new sort of constellation on issues. Then, of course, you had the Maha people who were totally neglected, especially during COVID that Trump and them didn't want to lean into, Even though in 2020, I said they should, they didn't want to. They finally, the Maha coalition kind of forms, and that's what delivered primarily the popular vote. I knew we were going to. I didn't know in 2023 we're going to win, but I knew Trump is going to win the primary, But I was still iffy on the election, but I knew that in 2024, I knew we were gonna win the Electoral College. I didn't think we were gonna win the popular vote. I wish I could have called that one. I would be retweeting myself every day. Look how. Look how smart I am. I told you the popular vote. I knew we'd do the Electoral College vote because you had this new alliance of people. And then others realized that all the left, they really are bad. They don't want to debate the issues on Israel the way the right does. The. The. The reason people like me and others would get into, like, quote, unquote, so much trouble is we just view everything as up for debate. So we can sit around and is this real bad? Is it good? What about this? What about that? All day? And it doesn't necessarily mean that we hate them or love them. That's just another thing we talk about. Right? The. That's. That's what we do. And you tried to cover that in your first book. I remember we met in New York. The only reason you met is because we had a mutual friend. Because I thought, man, I don't want to sit down and talk to some guy writing a book about the new right. There's no way anybody can really understand it because it's like a debate, says I just, like, we're debating these shootings. Nobody. I was on the. I was so glad that I was on the. An airplane yesterday with Scott Adams. The celebration of life that we went to. Because I looked around and everybody's talking about the snowstorm in Nashville, weather disruptions, travel disruptions, and the Rams and Seattle. I think we're playing. No. But meanwhile, we're on X furritively. What does the shooting mean for the midterms? What is this? We get. We get sort of spun up because we only touch grass more. And I think touch grass What a lot of people who spend a lot of time on X do. What I always took that to mean is you have to be out in the world. You have to be an evangelist of Source. It doesn't mean touch grass, go to the gym, do your hill sprints, which you should do, mountain bike and all that. But you got to be in the world and look around at what everybody's actually talking about before you think, well, this moment in time is pivotal and this is really going to impact 2024, 2026, 2028. You got to zoom out a little bit and realize that really isn't the big issue. The big issue is still Maha. That hasn't changed from 2024. Big Issue is still Israel. And people finding the new equilibrium is is the word I'm looking for. Because they are finding out, oh yeah, these guys, they'll like they should talk Israel, but they don't hate it, right? They don't hate it. They're just saying, why can they do this and we can't do that. Why can you do this? And why? We're. It's just more of a sense making discussion than anything else. Whereas the left is just looney tunes on this stuff. And then you're seeing. And then people on the right who maybe had bigger problems with Israel are seeing the correlation of the anti ice people are all anti Israel people. So I'm. I'm sort of stuck in the middle because I'm not hardcore pro Israel person at all, to put it obviously, sometimes I get people saying, oh, you got to ease up on Israel or whatever. And I think, well, I don't need to ease up on him. I'd have actually one of the funnier conversations I had with the person. He goes, man, you're going hard on Israel. And I said, have you ever seen me talk about Netanyahu the way I talk about Keir Starmer? I think we should send in Delta to take Keir Starmer into custody. But God helped me. I posted, I thought the ambulance shooting was not a good situation and needed to be investigated and everything. So people are realizing that realignment maybe isn't the right word, but I think people on the right are realizing that the, the left is just fully anti civilization. They're anti ice, they're anti borders. That's really why they hate Israel. They don't really hate Israel because Israel is just a uniquely bad place. They just see it as all part of it. So then if you're somebody who was maybe a blackman kind of type, you Realize, oh yeah, they're just gonna line all of us up against the wall. What. What in the world? They're. They. These, the left people really are anti order. They're full agents of chaos. And then I think a lot of the, maybe hardcore pro Israel people are realizing that when you, when you make Israel a live wire, all that does is gets people, all that does is get the worst about it. Because people like me think, oh, do I really want to say anything? I'm. I've been yelled at enough today. I've been yelled at enough. I've hit my quota. So I don't want to defend Israel. I don't really want to attack it. And then that leaves the conversation over for people who are obsessive on either end. So then you have the hardcore pro Israel people who can be quite alienating to the right or people like me, because I think we should be able to talk about anything. And the left is just Israel's evil all the time. And they're hitting it so that. So people are realizing, okay, we got a problem here. And by that I mean people like me are also realizing that I'm like, man, you guys are going to make me a flag waiver. But the anti Israel size about to make me a flag waiver because they're so hateful. It's just a neo Bolshevik kind of movement. So you have that. You have the Maha people who. They're getting some wins with RFK Jr. I don't think they're getting maybe what they deserve. I think they deserve a lot more than what they're getting, but they're at least in the room. And a lot of the Maha people I've been trying to. Because we were right here. I, I was, I knew all the original, quote unquote, crazy anti vax moms. Right? I. I knew all them from Get Go. I would cover their events and talk to them. People forget. This is again why it's hard to look into 2028. And I believe it was either 2022 or 2023. You'd have to check it. RFK Jr got nuked from social. He was really. I forgot about this Instagram bit. Yeah, because our people. Yeah, no, you, you, because I, I heard all this. I would get tweets from the. The Maha moms. And Bobby got banned from everything. Del Big Tree banned from everything. You can check the exact date on that. He was banned from Instagram everywhere else. He was more or less politically nuked. And then Nicole Shanahan backs his campaign. Next thing you Know, he's in the mix. Censorship, culture changes, there's a lot of flux. And what I think the right or the maga movement, Maha Memphis realizing is that you, the left wing, they're full ideologues. You have to be fully committed to the destruction of America. People on the right, you gotta just get used to people not agreeing with you. You gotta realize that the Maha people, I always tell the moms that you're not gonna get everything you want and when you do things, there's gonna be political consequence to it. You have to make trade offs. The same thing for people like me, the same thing for the hardcore pro Israel people. Everyone's realizing for a coalition to work, you're going to have to be around people that you disagree with. And you can't just nuke everybody. You can't say, okay, I saw this one clip now, so I have to nuke this, I have to nuke this person from orbit. Well, great. Now you've alienated a political ally who agrees with you enough that you can get wins out of it. And you maybe have antagonized someone or you've given people no offroad. So everybody has to grow up. And I think it all ties into my, my ranting and raving against the, the crisis of extended adolescence, right? Which is I lived it too, and to some degree, and it's a little embarrassing. You think, like I used to go to bars, like, why in the world was I ever at a bar? I look back with some kind of shame, right? You'd go to a bar and smoke cigarettes and listen to degenerate music. And when you're younger, that's one thing, maybe necessarily, I don't agree with it, but you think people are just living that life way too long. Go to Austin. It's kind of like Wonderland for kids still. You guys are in your 40s, you're the old guy at the bar. Get out of here, get out of here. Right? And for a political coalition to work, everybody just has to be mature. Guess what? There's 10 of you in the room. You have 11 different point of view. Pick your three issues, help everybody win on their issues. Try to be likable, try to be a good partner in this, and then nobody's going to get 100%. But if everybody can get 70%, 80%, don't become too pushy and more or less grow up, right? So having a parent, I learned more about politics. Because your kids will bicker to the end over a plastic toy, right? They'll be in the back seat to. In the car, and it's some crappy little. My kids one time got in a fight over. It was, you know those plastic Easter eggs you get with little toy in it? They fought over the Easter egg that was empty. But they're at each other's throats. And that's a very childish, childish way. And we judge them as children. But then in politics, you're thinking, why are we fighting tooth and nail over this? Why are we at each other's throats over this? Why don't we just all grow up and relax? So you have. You have. Those forces are coming together in a lot of different ways. It's a very strong coalition. There's always going to be hiccups. You're always going to deal with, why do you like that guy? And I'm like, who cares? Again, that's like a very childish question. Why do you still like, you know, so and so. I'm not going to name names, but why do you like. Why? Are you asking why I like a person? Are we. Are we a little kid now passing notes in class? Do you like Michael Malice? Check yes or check no. And maybe more people. Yeah, right. Maybe. I always tell people, I go, guys, I don't like myself, Okay? I don't even like me. Yeah, I like my kids, I like my wife. I don't like myself. So why are you asking me about other people? I like them. I don't like anybody, man, let alone me, because I'm the. I'm the wrong guy. Even asking. Everybody has to grow up a little bit. And I think. I think people are growing up. So for 2028, we know it's going to be nasty. We know the primary is going to be a nasty thing. And I've been telling everybody, not everybody wants to listen. Why don't we fight in 2027? Why don't we do that? You don't like Tucker. Great. Okay, go after Tucker in 2027. Okay? The mid. The midterms are coming up. Just deal with it. You're going to be right. Like Matt Walsh, I think, has a good perspective on it, which is for now, anyway. The primaries are obviously different, but for now, if you do not want me dead, that is good enough. You might say some dodgy things, you might have some positions that I don't agree with, but you don't want me to end up like Charlie Kirk. For now, that's good. 2027, all bets are off. The knives are going to come out. We almost going to happen. Great. Can we just have a year of solidarity? Try to get the midterms? Try to. It's going to be very hard to win the midterms, primarily because of redistricting and all the drawings of maps the Democrats did. But I'm thinking, can we just calm down this year? Try to do the midterms? And then. So January 26, 2026, what are we. Yeah, we're 2026. Can we do this in 2027? Please? Let's not do this now. Let's all. And that's again, also part of being adult. An adult is you know that you're going to have the negotiation. You know you're going to have the fights coming. You know that's going to happen. But you don't have to fight all the time over everything. So 2026, I'm definitely pessimistic about, but a lot can happen before then. 2028, I'm not pessimistic at all about, but I do know that we're going to, we're going to go through it, so to speak.

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[Mike Cernovich]

Grocery outlet, bargain market.

[Michael Malice]

Let's get back to it. First of all, it's interesting, what you said kind of ties in. I just looked up while you were speaking in the Knesset, which is Israel's parliament. They have 1, 2, 3, 5 parties in the ruling coalition and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 parties in the opposition. So every other country who has parliaments. We obviously have Congress, which is kind of like a parliament. They have to do this. Except for Britain, I guess, they've got the two big parties and the lesser ones. But they are, they have to usually cobble together this insane patchwork and figure out a way to make it work. We've kind of been blessed or cursed, depending on perspective. You have the two parties and then it's really kind of fight to the death. What is this party going to look like? What the Democrats did, why they controlled Congress 40 years. People forget that is they had these bizarre wings. Like you had the white kind of nationalist, almost racist group and then you have the urban progressives and somehow they got it together. It's just a testament to finality or political skill. I don't know what it was. But, but, but I wanted to remind you and people listening to the quote, you know, you're talking about being of dead. I had a quote from Louis C.K. the comedian in my book the New Right. And he had, he had this joke about how, I'm not saying white people are better, I'm saying that being white is definitely better because he talks about if he gets in a time machine, wherever he goes, it's going to be great in the past. But he goes, I don't want, he goes, I don't want to go into the future and find out what happens to white people because we're going to pay hard for this. We're not going to just fall from number one to number two. They're going to hold us down and F us in the ass forever. And we totally deserve it. And I think that Obama wing of the Democratic Party, which has that oppressor, oppressed mindset, I think people who think of leftists as like some corporate hack like Biden or Hillary don't realize this ideological wing like you're talking about really sees politics as a mechanism of historical vengeance for perceived or actual historical wrongdoing. So it's not like, oh, I'm going to raise tax to the rich and give poor people health care. Fine. That's an easy conversation to have. This is some other mindset entirely. And you're not going to hear about it really from, you know, NBC News.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah, and the looting that, you know, we have to have a billionaire tax in California. Not because we need more, we don't need more money in California. There's more than enough money in California to go around. But the looting. And the looting is defended. Or in Minneapolis, the looting, and then in Maine, the looting is happening. And you realize it's a, you know what they call, what the kids call it? Gay race communism is the term. And there was a banger, a banger tweet which was, you can be, you can disagree on the top income tax rate and be a Democrat in good standing, but you can't disagree with gay race communism. Therefore the left is gay race communism. That's, that's their entire movement. You, you have to agree with trans and kids, so you're not a Democrat. News New Sim already is walking back his opposition to trans kids. Remember, he goes and he talks to Charlie Kirk. Oh, I, I don't agree with that. I don't. Now he does though. And that's the central tent of the party. So they're still gonna, they're still gonna run on crazy town, they're still going to run on vile anti white hatred. And in 2028, what you're going to see is not a pro white political movement, but you're going to have an anti anti white political movement. And you can see that already changing with the discourse up till only JD has the courage to call anti white hatred out by name. Only he does. But you're not going to have. There's nobody who's going to be competitive on the Republican side in 2028 who's unwilling or afraid to say anti white hatred. It's just not going to happen. So you're not going to have. Because there's no. That's where the, I think a lot of people lose the plot is there's no coal, there's no pro white coalition, but there's a huge anti white or anti anti white hatred coalition. So that's going to be a big issue in 2028. So how do you argue against that if you're the Democrat opponent, where if JD Van says I'm opposed to anti white hatred, what are you gonna say? They can't say, I agree with you. They're gonna have to try to, well, I'm against all hatred or they're gonna have to play some kind of rhetorical game. But to use, you know, Scott Adams's language, the linguistic kill shot is debate stage 2028, whoever it is. Do you oppose anti white hatred? What's the Democrat gonna say to that? They have three years to think of it and they're not going to have a better answer in 2028. So then what happens is you as a white American might say, well, I'm not into this white nationalism and I like my neighbors and I like my country, but these People are overtly anti white. They actually hate us on a deep level that I didn't really understand. I can't support that. And then if you look at the voting trends, I'm not sure that Trump lost the boomer vote in 2024. I never looked at the final tally, but it was much closer than it was before. So MAGA boomers were dying off. The lefty boomers are not dying off. And because of that, the boomer vote is very Democrat. But Gen X delivered for MAGA and the millennials. They're kind of kooky zoomers. We'll see if we can turn them out to vote. That's their own challenge. That there is so much low hanging fruit right now for 2028 is unreal. Just specking it out right now. I think you have the. Things have kind of cooled down in Gaza, but the Gaza people are still going to write. You know, you've dealt with these people at Columbia. I remember 2017 at Columbia University. They have signs everywhere. BLM and Hamas are. We're on the same team here. Israel is a colonial apartheid state, just like America. The IDF and the KKK Gohan, you'd hear that, you hear their charts. That that energy isn't really going to go away. The wealth tax now has the billionaires spooked. And some of them, who, some of them are getting more like Sean Aguirre. And these guys are going pretty hard in the paint now. These guys were not going hard in the paint in 2024. Ackman is. Yeah, I know Tucker has his issues with them or whatever, but Ackman I think is playing a very smart game. He's, you know, he's back and go fund me's and he's going hard in the paint too. So you have, you have new voices that are emerging that have a certain legitimacy and a social cachet or permission structure. Right. That's what the people on our side don't appreciate is people read me, people like me, but I would even not consider myself a permission structure of legitimacy. Right. That's not my role in the ecosystem and never really was. I'm more of an ideas guy. You kind of read me. Maybe you like me, maybe you don't, but you want to hear what I kind of have to say. But I'm not. But people aren't going, oh wow, I now have permission to vote for somebody because of this. But with, with other people coming out. You, you do have that. When you had that in 2024 with Sachs coming out, that gave A lot of people intact a permission structure and of all became kind of, you know, wink, wink, nod, nod. Nobody really knows. But people make assumptions. Huge permission structure. In 2024, that was all I think more responsible for the popular vote than anything. And that's why these ICE issues, that's why even though I don't think they're big electorally, they, the reason I do the inside baseball is because you don't want to like lose those guys, right? You don't want them to get lost in the sauce when their wives are showing them clips. They have to have the information to say no. Here's what happened. He went there with a gun. He's 38. He wasn't Kyle Rittenhouse, an 18 year old kid who was attacked. He interjected himself into a thing. There's whistles blowing. You can't hear anything. Forget about the smoke alarm chirp. These are 115 decibel ear splitting sounds going in. It's a little bit more complicated than that. So you have to, you have to keep the permission structure open. Right. And I think there's even more of a permission structure to support the Republican nominee in 2028. But again, there's going to be a fight. But people are smart about it. People are intelligent. JD is a smart guy. He's on Twitter a lot. Rubio's smart. Rubio is playing a smart game. A lot of people are playing smart games.

[Michael Malice]

I don't think Vance is going to have a cakewalk to the nomination because at the very least he's taken enough positions where if I'm somebody of a vague or somebody else, why not run? What's my downside? I boost my platform. I get fundraising book deals. I don't need to run to win. People don't realize this. You and I obviously do and other pundits. But a lot of times when these people run for president, they have no intention of winning. They just, it's just a way to, you know, boost your, your, your brand. Do you think he's going to face a serious challenger in 2028? Do you agree with me?

[Mike Cernovich]

Oh yeah. Every Republican primary is going to be book deal fight. Right? That's why you had 17 people. I think in 2015, 2016, everybody wants their book deal. Even though I like DeSantis as governor, I saw his early moves before he ran and I said it's better to. Santos didn't even run in 2024 because that's right was flip flopping on Ukraine. Ken Griffin likes them one day. Next Day. Ken Griffin doesn't. And they don't realize the message that that sends to people. So in 2024, they tried to have a crowded field, but the, the message doesn't. There's no appetite for Nikki Haley. There's no appetite again. I think DeSantis is a great governor. What, what really is the appeal of desantis to the base. Right. Somebody has to convince me of that. The base has gotten stronger. The base is more compared to 2015, 2016. It's not even a close call in terms of how much do the donors move the needle versus the base. The donor still, you still need money to run and they still have a seat at the table and clout, but they don't move the money. They don't move the needle like they used to. So, sure, you're going to have a crowded field and the donors are going to want to go heavy into Ted Cruz, but Ted Cruz is he, that's why Ted's always ranting about Ted Cruz. I thought in a lot of ways was a good senator, but he, he committed Harry Kerry on the Tucker interview. How do you, how do you run in 2027 on that platform? Again with the base? The donors like to hear it. So the version of, you know, your people are fond of saying, because I remember I heard this during the 2024 primary, you're about to learn in Iowa that Twitter is not real life. Right. And the answer is, it isn't. When we go deep into the weeds on the Minnesota shooting, it isn't. But it is. It is. Why? Why am I not a real person? Why do I not live in real life? Why? The people who see me in public, they're not real people in real life. How does that even make any sense? And then the primary went the exact way I said it would. It was just a clean sweep for Trump. Clean sweep wasn't even close. So. But. So they'll tell us to tell us to touch grass. But I would say, you got to leave that West Palm beach donor circle. You got. They need to touch grass, leave West Palm Beach, Florida. Because when you go to. Because I've been around donors and I avoid them because one, they're always kind of working an angle now. I just don't really like that. And two is they're compare. They're relatively what they want. Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

Let me say one thing quickly to remind people who forgot in 2024, Trump got 51 of the vote in Iowa against like four or five candidates, a clear majority. It was absolutely. So he got More votes than everybody else combined. So which you would think, you know, maybe he'd get like 30, which is more than he lost Iowa in 2016 to Ted Cruz. People forget that. So, yeah, it was absolutely clean. Sweet. Go ahead. Sorry.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah, because the base, the base really is wagging the dog now. The tail's not wagging the dog anymore. So in West Palm beach, they all coordinate or they go the Hamptons, but that's not where you're getting. That isn't the base. Right. The base isn't the West Palm beach donor class where they go into. And I don't have anything against Ken Griffin personally, whatever. But a friend of mine said that he showed me. Ken Griffin basically has so much money that he ran out of stuff to buy, so he bought it. You like this, you like fossils? He bought a Tyrannosaurus Rex, a full size T Rex that he has either in one of his houses he built for his mom or his office or so he has the Chicago Museum kind of money.

[Michael Malice]

Let's get back to the show. But hold on, hold on, hold on. Do you know, do you know who else? The biggest. I'm double checking this because that's kind of crazy. You just said that.

[Mike Cernovich]

Because

[Michael Malice]

the other biggest T Rex was bought by one of the Koch brothers. So I don't know what it is with these donors buying these dinosaurs or there's something ironic about donors buying dinosaurs. I suppose it kind of speaks because they just.

[Mike Cernovich]

Well, what I, what I learned is, and I don't have this problem for anybody curious or trying to bag check me, this is not the case for me. But rich people have run out of stuff to buy you. Okay, you have the best house, you have that, well, you need a bigger house now and well, you might as well buy your mom 100 million dollar house because what else you gonna spend your money on with the Koch brothers? There's a fascinating article on all the counterfeiting. They were victims of counterfeiters for wine. So they got $2,500 bottles or 25 millions of dollars and wine. There's a documentary on that, on the forgers and the counterfeiters. And Koch brothers were central to that, which I always thought was kind of amusing, is why is the FBI going after wine counterfeiters? These rich guys, they can sue, they can civil litigate. I find I get really resentful that with all the elder fraud and the robocall scams from India and everything happening, we. Oh well, we don't handle that. That's a civil matter. Okay? A guy got ripped off. Some rich billionaire gazillionaire got rich. Ripped off because of wine. Good grief. Why is it, tell me again why the FBI is involved in this, right? Get real. But. So if you're spending time with the Koch brothers, the Wilkes brothers, Ken Griffin, you're talking to people who, they live in a world that isn't reality, right? That again, they've just. I don't have any more money. What am I going to buy? Well, I'm going to buy a T. Rex or a dinosaur fossil. So that's what I'm going to buy now because yeah, I really have, I really have too much money. So when they bend people's ears, it's on very. It's minutia that doesn't resonate. Whereas in reality, ground, ground world is cost of living. It's the value of the dollar. That's how health insurance premiums are a mortgage payment for most people. Now how do you make it? Let's say you make 120,000 a year, good salary or should be a really good salary. But how do you make it when your mortgage is say 2500, your health insurance is 2500amonth, that's 5k off the top. So let's say after taxes you're looking at eight, four or five. That's gone. That's if you were able to buy a house. So if you don't have a house, how are you going to save for a down payment? That's what people are talking about. People are not talking about dinosaur skeletons and exotic wine in a wine cellar. So what happens is that people like me, they, they get. You can always tell when people have been courted too much because they, there's a change in what they talk about and a change in the behavior. People get courted and then they start enjoying that nice wine. Maybe they start flying private. The billionaire class is putting them on a jet, they're flying private. They get a little contract, a little sinecure, they're flush with cash. Suddenly they're at these high end things. I don't even go to Mar a Largo. I don't even want to be around rich people. I don't, I avoid. Unless a person is an intellectual and I think a reader a book like, like what was that guy Mateen or whatever his name is. You would know him that he's hilarious, a troll guy, he's like you but 18. And he went viral when he was arguing with these onlyfans women. Yeah, matin. So unless you're a Billionaire who can name five books. Why do I want to meet you? What are you going to do? Give me a glass of wine? I don't want to drink wine. Fly private. I don't need to fly private. I actually don't want to fly private. I want to fly in Southwest so then I can look around and see that nobody's talking about Preeti or whatever this guy's name is. Pretty. Yeah, pretty. Nobody's talking about him. They're talking about the Rams game. But if you're flying private with all your other fancy people, oh, wow, this Minnesota thing. What's this mean for the midterms? Oh, man, this is going to be bad because everybody's on ax, glued to their phones, into the minutia of it, while they're about to fly private and then go have a $2,500 dinner. And. And I see that even with some of the podcasters, they're. They're not. I don't want to. You know, I'm doing my best to not name names or to do so with some, just to be polite. But the. It was like Bert and this other guy, Segura, and they're more or less talking about how they ran out of stuff to buy. He goes, oh, I have 500 pairs of shoes, and I have 300 shirts. So because of the way wealth is breaking past a certain level, people are just running out of stuff to buy. The lesson of that is, you should have an existential crisis, and then you should donate to charity. And there's a. I have a solution to that. The solution is Jesus Christ. But the. But they're at least diagnosing the problem, which is. And I'm not bashing Sagara in them. I'm just. These are what they're talking about publicly. So I'm responding to that. And they're going, oh, yeah, how many pairs of shoes? They were saying, how many pairs of shoes you have? He goes, I think I have 300 pairs of shoes because I wear five pairs. I have two, 200 jackets because I wear three jackets. He goes, what am I really doing? And then at the billionaire level, I have a $75 million home next to Larry Ellison on an acre in Juniper and a boat, and I'm out of stuff to buy. So give me the T. Rex bones and give me this. But it's just, again, the way the wealth is broken. So I think the solution is be more like Scott Adams. Scott Adams had a significant net worth. He had a nice house he lived in. But if you went in there, you wouldn't. If you were bag checking and you went to his house, you would say, oh, this is somebody who's been a successful person in life. But you wouldn't be like, oh no, this guy's a guy who had Dilbert royalties for three decades and speaking fees and everything else. You say, oh yeah, this is a guy who like worked hard, bought a house in the 80s. He's done okay in life. But you wouldn't think so that that's the answer. So the, the problem, the meaning crisis and the problems people are having is they're running out stuff to buy. But that's when you get out of touch politically too, or even with your audience. Because nobody wants to hear a podcaster talk about how they have so much money that they don't know what to do. That doesn't mean don't talk about it. But there was Rogan had a good interview. I think it was Billy Corgan. It was a rock star. I think it was Corgan. But Corgan said the reason most rock and rollers fall, fall off is because when they first start writing, they're writing about love, heartbreak. Then they become successful and now they're talking about too many groupies want to fornicate with me and I have too much money and my jet didn't start on time. Nobody wants to hear that. That's not the source of great art. Like people want to hear. Because if you ever want to go down a rabbit hole, the. And it's wild to think, like, how did Pearl Jam, how did a 17 year old Eddie Vedder write old woman behind a counter? If you, as you get older, especially my age and you know, all these great, I mean, we're the same age, you get these gray hairs and you really start to think about, I mean, yeah, you went to high school with these people. Everybody had dreams and life sort of passes some people by. How do you write that as a teenager? Life hasn't passed you by. You're in your there, you're in your prime, right? You're, you're in your peak years. But they, but they have that. And then you think, well, what good song has Pearl Jim had in 30 years? Nothing. Why? Because they have wealth, they have opulence. They didn't put on any kind of controls to, to insulate themselves from that opulence. So now they're just rich guys. And I like their old music, don't get me wrong. They're all catalog, but there's no new catalog because they're. They. Everybody has problems. It's not like if you become a certain net worth, you know, problems, but you don't have problems that are relatable or that people even want to hear about. Same thing with politics. Good politics, well done is a. A form of creativity. It's a form of art. You're tapping into how people feel, the struggles that people have. And do you want to be a musician singing about, I flew private to the Hamptons and had escargot and didn't know the right fork to eat. Right. Nobody. Nobody wants to hear that as a song. Nobody wants to hear that as a political message. So what happens with people who get around the donor class too much is like, oh, yeah, Nikki Haley has a shot. It's like, why is Nikki Haley. I remember that in 2023, 2024. Why do you think that? Well, you think that because you're in West Palm beach and 50 billionaires are telling you that Nikki Haley's great and she really understands the message, Right? Or people tell you, ted Cruz has a shot. Ted Cruz won't condemn anti white racism by name. That's a non starter. But if you tell this to the billionaire, which is again, when I was being courted and I just got bored. That's why I think. I don't want to say autism, because some people I know, people with vaccinated kids that have real autism, but whatever I have, it just makes me not particularly drawn to money, right? Like, ooh, ooh, you have so much money. Wow. I want to be around all your money. And I'm more interested in, like, what, like, what are you reading? What are you thinking about the world. But when they try to court people, I remember meeting, it's also. I think I told you this yesterday. That's why I'm not a conspiracy theorist anymore, because I've met so many of the. The men behind the curtain, so many of the Oz kind of characters, and they don't really know what's going on. And if you tell them things like, oh, yeah, anti white racism is probably gonna be a huge issue in 2028. They look at you like you're crazy. That's not gonna resonate at all. And I go, okay, why am I here? Excited. A friend.

[Michael Malice]

Can I give you an example of this? I remember I got Andrea Rich, the late Andrea Risch, God bless her. She was the head of something called Laissez Faire Books, which was before the Internet. You had a monthly catalog and as a curated catalog. And these are books for liberty issues, right? And that really did a lot to keep the liberty movement together when the Internet wasn't a thing. You could, you know, share a kind of community and literature together. And she. When I was doing my book in north korea, dear reader, she introed me to a donor. She's like, okay, this woman might be able to help you. So I had a very nice lunch with her. And she said, I've never heard of kim jong il and I can send myself well read. So she, like, passed the book back. So, like, this is basically a waste of my time. And yeah, I mean, to say that no one's heard of north korea or kim jong il is just like, what do you even say to that? Which. Which is even bizarre because even at the time, the new york times is covering extensively. So I don't know what her sources were. But to your point, if anti white racism was a thing, Obviously it would have crossed my. The billionaire's desk. Because, you know, I'm meeting the president, I'm writing the big checks. I've got photos in my office of me with biden and with trump. Here's me and rubio. Great guys. He's so warm. You know, he calls about my kids. And they don't realize that these politicians job is to extract wealth for them. If not through taxation, through donations, and to blow smoke up their ass. They just really think, okay, I've got all figured out. And, you know, pam bondi is genuinely interested in my opinion on these legal issues.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah, so they. What they talk about are not the real issues that people are talking about downstream. But I think again, like michael dell and the baby bond ackman. I mean, that's the funny thing is I. The funny thing with the ackman. Tucker, I don't want to make. Turn this into tiger teen beat, But I remember I watched a documentary on herbalife and I didn't know who bill ackman was or anything. And I was like, oh, yeah, herbalife is obviously a bad thing. And then I think I tweeted it about it. People go, oh, wow, Bill ackman finally has a supporter. And I was, who's bill ackman? Because he had a huge short position in herbalife. And that was his whole position on that. So I think that, like, ackman is getting it, which is you need to get people into the stock market. You need to. Why? Because most people mystify it. Most people don't know, hey, if the day yours baby, your day, the day that your baby's born, if you can come up with $650. Even if not all at once, just in the first year. And you just put that in a Schwab or Fidelity account, in an ETF that tracks the Dow Jones industrial average, your kid will turn 18 and have five or ten grand, maybe 15. Now, I grew up poor. That's a ton of money. A ton of like 10 grand when I was 18 would have been like, oh my God, like, talk about breathing room. And so the. But the billionaires, all the other ones don't even understand it. They. They don't like Chamath, who I like. Like a lot of these people I read and I think they have a lot of interesting things to offer. But I'm thinking, dude, I grew up poor. I don't care if you get taxed. I care about the fraud. Your problems are not my problem. I don't. I just. I really don't care. And that's how everybody sees it. But if you. If you got enough people in, then most Americans are just not bag checkers. That's what I love about America. Most people don't hate billionaires. Oh, they hate. That's the. The think tank DC thing. Oh, they. They hate us because we're success. No, nobody hates you because you're successful. They don't have anything and they just don't really care about you. And if it's time for your pound of flesh to be extracted, they just don't really care. This is a totally different mindset. Whereas if you could set up a situation where like Michael Dell's really trying to do and you know, Ackman sort of working on that stuff where you think, how do we just get Everybody to put $500 into the s and P and a low to no fee ETF and just let them know you can do it. Because most people don't even know they can do it. There's not even the literacy to know, oh yeah, you can just set up a 529 for your kid. The fees are low. You can go do that right now in Schwab. And for Christmas, tell people, give my kid 50 bucks. And then a few toys, less toys, you know, 50 bucks. You do that for a birthday, you do that for Christmas. You do that a couple times a year. That's a life changing amount of money. Especially for me. Like, if you grow up poor, that's a. 10 grand is a life changing amount of money to hit when you're 18. And then you're like, oh, okay, I have a little bit of. A little bit of breathing room now. I can sort of figure things out. Then for people who can do more again, it scales up. And then people don't hate the billionaires because it's like, well, I don't want to have a dinosaur. I don't want to have dinosaur bones in my house. I don't want, you know, I don't even want to live in a big house. Spooks me out, man. Big houses, more rooms for people to hide and to kill you. More rooms for the ghosts to haunt the house, man. So that's. Most of America is, I'm completely fine, but if I don't have anything, then why. Why should I really care if the system keeps going forward?

[Michael Malice]

Let's get back to the show. It's funny. I went to visit Roger Veer in over the summer. He's bitcoin Jesus. He's extremely wealthy. He was under house arrest. I don't want to get too specifics, but I'd never been house like that, right? It was just absolutely insane. There, there's a helipad. It's like a compound. And I had two things in the bucket list. One is, as a New Yorker, you're going to laugh. People watching this will laugh. Having stairs in my house, like when you're in New York, you have stairs in your house. You've made it. It's an accomplishment. The other one was, the real upgrade is the elevator in the house, right? And he had that. And I'm like, this is a nightmare because it was so, like you said, empty. And it's almost like being. If anyone's done overtime when you're the last guy in the office and it's huge, but it's like, it doesn't feel safe. It feels wrong. And for him, it was literally a prison. He, you know, he wasn't allowed to leave because, you know, he's under threat of the US government trying to put his ass away for years for no reason. But it was the first time I saw, like, oh, like this would be superb in a magazine layout, which I'm sure it had been. But if I were to live here. This isn't cope, you know, like when. When I hear guys who are like 67 say, I'd rather be 6 4. I thought, it's cope. But then I talked to friends of mine. Who's that? They're like, these last three inches, it's a cost, not a benefit. Like sitting the seats. Women don't find it more attractive. I'm hitting my head. Life expectancy, health issues, like, it's. It's not really all that.

[Mike Cernovich]

You're not 72. You can't play basketball. Yeah, you're right.

[Michael Malice]

Right. You're in that, like, uncanny valley almost that. That hammock area. And it's just like, what is. At a certain point, the house is like, what's that 21st room gonna do? It's just like, I'm just gonna. You can't fill it. You gotta buy the dinosaurs to put in.

[Mike Cernovich]

Right? And that. And that's where, I guess I was lucky. And that's the thing too, because I have friends who have done well. And I'll say, well, you know, why don't you guys fund a movie? And. And I. And they're like, well, you know, the roi And I go, well, I funded movies. Well, that's why you're not, you know, rich like me. And on the one hand, I'm like, man, you really think I care? You really think I'm checking your bag? You don't realize I'm looking at you and thinking you're physically weak and I could beat you up like, you don't even know how my brain operates. My brain is not bag checking your net worth. My brain is. Your wife is a bitch, dude. Your wife is a bitch. Like, that's where my brain is. Your. Your net worth and everything. So. And it's even more so where I'm like, I think you're a coward because you have all this money and you won't even do anything cool with it. You're just. You're burning it on more consumption or more. More opulence. And then that's where I learned that, like, we all speak a different language, and the. The language of money is its own language. And you do have to learn the language of money. That's why I do talk more about financial literacy and stuff, because I didn't know what a 529 was until I had my first kid. And since I was the target of the regime, I was like, okay, I need to not have any money myself. I need to make sure my wife and kids have all of my money. So I just had to learn how to do it. So when I talk to these guys, I'm like, well, you are right. I am, like, broke. I don't have any money. But. But that was. That was literally by design. Because I'm only worried about what's going to happen with. With my family when, you know, because if things change in 2028, we could be in the bad years again. We could be back the Douglas Mac years. And then I realized, oh, they speak a different language. Like, I speak the language of, like, honor and courage and virtue. And does your wife like you? And do you like your wife? Are you at the office 14 hours a day? You're training for an Ironman because, like, you hate your wife. That's the language that I speak. So you can't even. Then I realized, and that's when I quit letting people try to even try to smoosh me, because I realized our language is so different. I actually tell people not to be too Reddit brained here. Harry Potter brained. But if you watch Game of Thrones closely, the first season, then you see the different languages. The Starks are an honor culture people. They're made to be naive. And I think that's because George R.R. martin couldn't really fully understand honor culture. So he assumes if you're an honest, salt of the earth person, you're not going to know that Cersei Lannister is going to have you killed, Right? You're just going to sit there and you're so dumb. Whereas the, you know, the honor culture thing is Ned Stark knows that Robert Baratheon is going to kill the kids. He doesn't want the kids killed. So an honor culture thing, he's thinking, how can I pull back Robert to prevent him from killing a kid, which he views as dishonorable? But that doesn't mean you're stupid. And then you stay in the crooked city. You would still leave like the. The other brother did, where he's gone in the morning. But if you watch it that way, you're like, okay, Lannister's like the weasel culture, right? He'll do anything to get. There's not really anything really driving him. And then the Lannisters, they. They speak the language of money or the Iron bank to a. To a large degree. And again, I'm embarrassing myself because I sound like the Harry Potter kids who they build a worldview around Voldemort and Harry Potter and everything. So people want to make fun of me for that. That probably would annoy me. Usually what people make fun of me for doesn't annoy me because I'm like, I don't care. I have gray hair. I don't care. My face is red. I don't care. But if you said I was a Harry Potter brain, that probably really would annoy me. But that's the idea. So you realize that the donor class, they speak the language of money. Everything is about, especially on the right and the libertarian thing so you, you can't have a conversation with them because if you tell me, well, I've run out of money to buy, well, I would say, well, no kidding, like, what are you going to do with 50 billion or 100 billion, my God, the interest of the interest of the interest of the interest could cover you for the rest of your life. So I would say, why don't you, like, go do cool shit? They would go, well, that's why you're not a billionaire. And in a way, they're right. Even though they're trying to be kind of about it, in a way they are right because I don't speak that language when I, when I, you know, when I have a good year, I donate more to charity. When I have a bad year, I just spend less. I just have less consumption. And that's the way it is. So if I somehow had a huge windfall of money, I would be like, okay, we're going to make more movies, you know, because I can only afford to do one kind of, you know, lower budget movie at a time. I'd be like, great, we're going to, you know, do more movies. But it wouldn't occur to me to think, well, how can I turn this into even, you know, even more money, let alone run in that world where now I'm politically completely out of touch.

[Michael Malice]

Sean is Iranian, correct?

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah. We got a lot of Persian family

[Michael Malice]

members, so I'm very curious to hear your thoughts about. What drives me crazy about Twitter is that everything has to be an opinion and nothing is as it looks.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah.

[Michael Malice]

And at the same time, sometimes it's both. It could be, you know, behind the scenes, there's ops, but also there is some sincerity. It doesn't have to be two discrete circles. I'm very curious to hear your thoughts about, given our Plato's Cave information about what's going on Iran, because everything's smoke and mirrors from both sides. What are your thoughts on what's going on now? And this is very hard to do if you have any predictions at all, because. Which is almost impossible to do, I think, in my opinion.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah, the Iranian thing is especially hard now because anything that could benefit Israel is therefore an Israel up. So deposit my $7,000 cha ching. And. But if you're an OC and you're at the hookah bars, the, the Iranian diaspora, they hate the moolahs and half of the, you know, so the Iranian. For those who don't know, I don't want to get too, too much in the weeds here unless People find it interesting. But the Iranian diaspora, you have Jewish component to it of it, but then you have a much larger, I call them secular Muslims because they're more traditional. They're like far right wing on a lot of moral issues, but they're not bowing to Islam and a lot of them hate Islam because of what had happened. And you have this huge split. So the, the Jewish Iranian component over the, the Persian Jewish side of it. They obviously have a bias towards Israel, but the people who are not a lot of them actually are very critical of Israel and think Israel has too much problem, too much power in the Middle East. So the Shah of Iran gave that 60 Minutes interview, I think with Mike Wallace where he's talking about Israel has too much power. So they're. So they're not pro, hardcore, pro Israel or hardcore. And they're like, oh yeah, bomb the moolahs. But they're telling me, you know, if you go to the hookah bar, they're like, oh yeah, we're seeing the videos. It might not be 50000 because we get all this war propaganda what like we got with Ukraine, Snake island and everything else, but it's thousands if not tens of thousands. So obviously there's a neocon push for regime change or taking out the regime in Iran. Obviously. That's true. That can be true. And it can also be true that the moolahs are, they have killed 10, 20, 30,000 people. And the Free Palestine side is not at all concerned with that. And a lot of them actually are carrying water for the moolahs. Because I've, I've found, I've told my friends in conservative media this. I said, if we lose in 2028, it's going to be your fault. And they go, why? And I, I said I have to follow left wing people like Ryan Grimm to get anything about Israel because I know that you're not going to cover that in the caller and Breitbart and everywhere else. And I love you guys, but I know you're not going to cover it. And so all you're getting is the hardcore left wing thing or James Lou. Anytime James Lou talks about Maga, I'm like, man, you just don't have a clue or whatever that guy. And you can even see it with Rogan kind of pitching, you know, a little bit over to the left, a little bit because there's no conservative media thing that'll be at least somewhat even on Israel. So then you have to go the left. So then a lot of the zoomer Right wing people are getting a lot of left wing agit props. So if you read these left wing sites, which I do, they're not covering 10, 20, 30,000 Iranians killed. The great humanitarians who, they weep, they weep for the dead of Gaza. The, they're nothing on this. And then of course they try to wease a lot of it. They go, that's because we're funding, dude, we fund everything. We fund Israel, Egypt, Jordan. We unfro under Obama. He shipped over the moolahs, gave them all these billions of dollars. Germany does Russian natural gas deals with Russia. Get out of here. Don't tell me that you're a great humanitarian. You weep for the Yemenis, you weep for Yemenis, you weep, you weep for them, but you don't reap for the Iranians being killed by the mullahs. What, what does, what does that mean? Well, that's suspicious, right? That's a little suspicious that we can't get any kind of conversation on this. And by the way, that doesn't mean you have to support regime change because I don't, I don't know that bobbing the moolahs is the right choice. But I do know that if you spend a lot of time around Persians because there's a ton of them in OC and la, they're definitely in support of the leadership in the Iranian Republican guard being removed 100%. And that, and again, that's not the, the Jewish point of view. That's the, that's that point of view. And I, I, and I think what poisons the discord on access? People go, oh wow, Cernovich is a neocon now he supports regime change. No, I, you know, I didn't say that. I'm just telling you that if you go look at the issue from a 360 degree angle, you'll find out that there's a lot of people who want the Iranian Republican Guard gone and they do want the moolahs gone. And they do believe that Persia, because Persians are very supremacist in a lot of ways. They're like, we're not like in Iraq and Afghanistan. We'll know what to do, get rid of the moolahs and we'll be able to, to figure it out and we'll be able to, to govern ourselves properly.

[Michael Malice]

It's fun. You know who last week's guest had a very similar thing to say to what you just said. Do you know who was

[Mike Cernovich]

Douglas Murray?

[Michael Malice]

Probably Brianna Wu. No, Brianna Wu. Yeah, there she was saying things.

[Mike Cernovich]

Yeah. Now I'M confirmed. No. And that's, it's honestly too. That's where I think that the Douglas Murray's. A lot of them have harmed their cause in a lot of way. The, the Niles and them because they finger wagged at people so much that if they said what I said, it just wouldn't come off as credible. Especially.

[Michael Malice]

That's right.

[Mike Cernovich]

It just, it just wouldn't come off as credible. And that's something again that maybe in 2028 is there's a realignment, new equilibriums, people realize. Yeah, maybe, maybe just chill out a little bit. Right. Dave Smith is going to have his point of view. There's always going to the lit. You know, the libertarians drive me crazy too. The Gun goobers, the Open carry, the Boogaloo boys. Get used to it. We. There's a lot of people that I, because I, I think Dave Smith, I've retweeted him and that he's another guy. People say, well, how could you retweet him? I was like, I don't know. I mean, he annoys me with this ice stuff. But what do I, what do I not like him now? What do I say? I hate him because I think he's wrong on the, the things happen in Minneapolis. My, my goodness. Right. And so that I think harms the cause a lot because then when big boy issues like Iran come up, a lot of people have just shut themselves out of the conversation entirely because people just don't find them. It's like, oh, wow, Niall Ferguson supports another regime change war. Like, big surprise. There's no real credibility at all for that. And they do need to have some credibility because I think the point of view that I offered, I mean, I know for a fact it's true, but I think it's something that people should hear. And again, it doesn't mean you support regime change. Maybe you say, well, the diaspora wants it, but what's that got to do with America? It's still not America first. It's still not within our interest. And people can say, okay, cool, you know, I get it. But at the very least, people need to know that isn't some Zio psyop. And that's not why there's a sentiment towards the mulan.

[Michael Malice]

Okay, so TLDR Mike got the call, folks. Head over to malistyle locals.com and Mike will answer questions from Supporting.

[Mike Cernovich]

Well, before we go, I do want to say I want to plug your book too, before we go.

[Michael Malice]

Okay. Please.

[Mike Cernovich]

We're going to talk about what you think is happening to my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ, and where you think he is right now, according to Mike Malice. And so when I read Annie Jacobson's book on nuclear war, and then I saw, you know, North Korea had the nuke and everything, because I wasn't following things closely at the time. I really was. Unintentionally made me support at least some limited strikes on Iran because I was like, I wish we'd have bombed North Korea. Why do they have the nuke? Right? Why do they have the nuke? So I would have supported bombing North Korea if we somehow could have done that without China being involved. So my message to the neocons who watch your show, because I know a lot of them do, is you're losing people like me and people downstream where if you just talk to them like they're an adult and they're mature people, you could just say, like, do you think it's good that North Korea could detonate a nuke in an EMP style thing because they have a nuke in orbit? Do you think that's good? Or should we bomb North Korea? And I would say, yeah, we probably should. I wish we had, like, I think Obama, screw the pooch on that. Maybe you can. Maybe you can reach more people if you just grow up and you know that people are going to disagree with you and not everybody has your worldview. And that's. That's okay. That's okay. Because we do have to wait.

[Michael Malice]

I'm gonna make one. Yeah, I'm gonna make one. Correction. I think the only neocon viewer I have is Meghan McCain. So I don't think I.

[Mike Cernovich]

Okay, folks do hate me. Every. Every time you do. Every time you do, we do a video. There's a hate fest in the YouTube comments. So I always find I have not

[Michael Malice]

read the comments in months. But Mike, as you know, that that's the norm anyway. Like, the Internet has just become a hate speech machine. And it's funny you just said that because Megan, of all people, like, you don't have to like her. You could think she's terrible. That's perfectly fine. She's an adult. But my favorite thing about her, I've said this to her on this show. She'll have a tweet that's like, here's an Arizona sunset. Isn't it beautiful? I hope you have a great weekend. And the reply will be, your father's getting in hell right now, you fat, and I can't wait for you to join him. That's literally all her mentions. She's the most disproportionate and again, you don't have to like her, but it's just very the vitriol she directs. She should have been like a WWE heel because she's nailing it unintentionally. It was really great spending time with you over the weekend, and even though the circumstances were ostensibly negative, I thought the event and all the people spending time together was quality and very positive. And I think that was a testament to Scott and his character and his work. We're running out of time. What has been your favorite part of this interview?

[Mike Cernovich]

The the monologues. You always let me go monologues. So I'm going to enjoy all the hater comments saying Cernovich never even let Malice talk. He even let Mal. All he does is just talk over malice the whole time. This guy's so full of himself.

[Michael Malice]

You are welcome Foreign.

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[Mike Cernovich]

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