Josephine Baker

Summary

You’re Dead to Me – Josephine Baker

Host: Greg Jenner (BBC Radio 4)
Date: December 18, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of "You’re Dead to Me" delivers a brisk, witty, and lively exploration of the phenomenal life of Josephine Baker—dancer, singer, superstar, and… spy! Host Greg Jenner, accompanied by comedians and voice actors, guides listeners through Baker’s journey from poverty in St. Louis to stardom in Paris, her audacious life during WWII as a spy, and passionate activism for civil rights. The episode blends insightful historical storytelling with playful comedy, making Josephine’s legacy accessible, memorable, and fun.

---

Key Discussion Points

Early Life and Beginnings

• Childhood Struggles

  • Josephine was born Freda Josephine McDonald in 1906 in St. Louis, Missouri, growing up in poverty ("Her mother nicknamed her Tumpy because she thought she looked a bit like Humpty Dumpty." - Greg Jenner, [01:54]).
  • She experienced harsh racism, even as a child, and was forced to work as a maid under appalling conditions: "She had to work as a maid for a horrible man who made her sleep in a box." – Greg Jenner ([02:03])
  • Fled Illinois at age 11 amid race riots, determined to become a star.

• Early Performance Career

  • Started her showbiz journey with traveling shows (once sneaking in by hiding in luggage).
  • Moved to New York at 15, having been married twice—her second husband’s last name ‘Baker’ she kept.

• Notable Performer From the Start

  • Shone in shows like "Shuffle Along" and "The Chocolate Dandies," standing out for her comedic touches on stage: "She pulled funny faces and crossed her eyes and deliberately tripped over when other dancers were kicking." – Greg Jenner ([02:34])

---

Rise to Parisian Fame

• Parisian Transformation

  • Left for Paris just as her Broadway career sparkled, where she found creative freedom in cabaret culture that was far less restrictive than the U.S.
  • Combined Broadway, tap, ballet, and animal inspirations (e.g., kangaroos from St. Louis Zoo).

• Danse Sauvage and Iconography

  • Famous for the “Danse Sauvage,” a satirical and exaggerated performance to ridicule racist stereotypes:
    • "By performing this dance in a really over the top and very silly way, Josephine Baker made the audience see just how silly racist ideas about Black people were." – Greg Jenner ([04:46])
  • Introduced the iconic banana skirt, which, as noted, inspired Beyoncé decades later.

• Parisian Celebrity

  • Became one of the world’s highest-paid performers, and the first African American woman to star in a movie.
  • Had her own dolls made in her likeness:
    • “Hi, Barbie. Hi, Josephine. What are you doing today? Being glamorous and revolutionary. You?" – Supporting Performer ([05:39])

---

Star Power and Eccentricity

• Luxurious Lifestyle and Menagerie
  • Used new wealth to buy a luxurious hotel suite—filled it with exotic pets:
    • "She had a SN called Kiki, a chimp in a hat called Ethel, a horse called Tomato. …There were also monkeys, parakeets, a tortoise... Her most famous pet, though, was Chiquita the Cheetah, who wore a diamond studded collar." – Greg Jenner ([05:53], [06:32])
  • Took her cheetah, Chiquita, to the cinema and perfumed her pet pig.

---

Josephine the Spy

• WWII and Espionage
  • Joined the Women's Auxiliary of the French Air Force during WWII.
  • Used her celebrity to spy for France:
    • "She thought nobody would search or suspect her. Which I guess is fair enough. It would be like Taylor Swift working for MI5." – Greg Jenner ([08:36])
  • Smuggled secrets by writing them on her skin, in invisible ink, and on sheet music:
    • "Josephine was also able to meet lots of important people at fancy parties and learn all of their secrets. She would stash secret information under her clothes and write intel either on her own skin or on her sheet music." – Greg Jenner ([08:49])
  • Awarded medals for her bravery.

---

Activism and Later Life

• Civil Rights Advocate

  • Faced continued racism on return to the U.S. despite her war hero status and international fame.
  • In 1951, called out racist behavior at a famous nightclub, but instead of universal support, was red-baited and closely monitored by the U.S. government for a decade.
  • Participated in the 1963 March on Washington in full French Air Force uniform and medals:
    • "Josephine also made a passionate speech about her experiences as a Black woman and entertainer." – Greg Jenner ([10:26])

• Rainbow Tribe Family

  • Adopted 12 children from varied backgrounds to prove that different races could live harmoniously:
    • "She adopted children from many different backgrounds to show how people could all get along together, regardless of where they were from." – Greg Jenner ([10:58])
  • Raised them in a grand chateau—part home, part tourist attraction.

• Financial Trouble and Royal Rescue

  • Overspent, leading to eviction.
  • Grace Kelly, Princess of Monaco, and friend, literally rescued them:
    • "Luckily, Josephine's friend, Grace Kelly, a movie star and literal Princess of Monaco, put them up in one of her fancy French villas." – Greg Jenner ([12:18])

---

Death and Enduring Legacy

• Fulfilling Her Wish

  • Final performance in 1975, after which she died:
    • "Josephine went back to her hotel room so happy she could die. So she did. But if you have to go, you might as well do it. Surrounded by rave reviews of your show." – Greg Jenner ([13:07])

• French National Honor

  • In 2021, inducted into Paris’s Pantheon as a national hero:
    • "Give it up for the first Black woman in the Pantheon and first American, Josephine Baker." – Narrator ([13:42])
  • "What a hero." – Greg Jenner ([14:09])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "She pulled funny faces and crossed her eyes and deliberately tripped over when other dancers were kicking. A bit like when a footballer goes on Strictly." – Greg Jenner ([02:34])
• "By performing this dance in a really over the top and very silly way, Josephine Baker made the audience see just how silly racist ideas about black people were." – Greg Jenner ([04:46])
• "Hi, Barbie. Hi, Josephine. What are you doing today? Being glamorous and revolutionary. You?" – Supporting Performer ([05:39])
• "It would be like Taylor Swift working for MI5." – Greg Jenner ([08:36])
• "It's me, spy. I'm the agent. It's me." – Supporting Performer ([08:47])
• "Josephine went back to her hotel room so happy she could die. So she did. But if you have to go, you might as well do it. Surrounded by rave reviews of your show." – Greg Jenner ([13:07])
• "Give it up for the first black woman in the Pantheon and first American, Josephine Baker." – Narrator/Host ([13:42])

---

Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Event | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:11 | Introduction to Josephine Baker | | 02:03 | Childhood hardships and fleeing Illinois | | 02:34 | Dancing beginnings in New York and her unique stage persona | | 03:17 | Move to Paris and breakthrough in cabaret | | 04:46 | Satirical 'Danse Sauvage', the banana skirt, and anti-racist art | | 05:35 | Josephine dolls and stardom | | 05:53 | Eccentric pets and lavish lifestyle | | 07:31 | Perfuming the pig and WW2 outbreak | | 08:02 | Baker as a top French spy | | 08:49 | Smuggling secrets, invisible ink, and spycraft details | | 10:21 | Post-war U.S. racism, civil rights activism | | 10:58 | Adoption of "Rainbow Tribe" children | | 12:18 | Grace Kelly rescues Josephine and family | | 13:07 | Josephine's final show and passing | | 13:42 | Entry to Pantheon and legacy celebrated |

---

Final Thoughts

The episode balances deep respect for Josephine Baker’s achievements with engaging wit, highlighting her as a multidimensional figure—artist, provocateur, hero, mother, and legend. Both her flamboyant life and unwavering commitment to justice are celebrated, providing listeners with an inspirational (and very entertaining) history lesson.
Greg Jenner’s playful tone and creative use of supporting performers make even the “trickiest topics easy to follow.”

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

[Sarah (AM PM ad speaker)]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, There the last one. Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

[CarMax Ad Speaker]

Want to sell your car your way?

[Narrator/Host]

Who wouldn't?

[CarMax Ad Speaker]

That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly? Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over? Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time. Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with express drop off in store or pick up at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax. Want to drive CarMax pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See carmax.com for details.

[Greg Jenner]

Welcome to Dead Funny History. I'm Greg Jenner. I'm a historian and I want to tell you about someone cool. Now imagine one of the most phenomenal performers in the world. Now imagine the world's coolest spy. What if I told you they were both the same person? Yep. I'm talking about Josephine Baker. Celebrated by many as one of the world's first black superstars. Josephine was born in 1906 as Freda Josephine McDonald in St. Louis, Missouri, in the USA. But she grew up in East St. Louis in Illinois. Her mother nicknamed her Tumpy because she thought she looked a bit like Humpty Dumpty.

[Narrator/Host]

What are you going to call her?

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Tumpy because she looks like an egg.

[Narrator/Host]

I think you need more sleep.

[Greg Jenner]

Josephine's family were poor, so when she was 8, she had to work as a maid for a horrible man who made her sleep in a box. There were also very scary race riots against black people where she lived. So Josephine Left Illinois aged 11 with dreams of becoming a star. She got work with traveling shows one time by hiding in the luggage.

[Narrator/Host]

Time to unpack toothpaste spare pants, child.

[Greg Jenner]

When she was just 15, Josephine moved to New York. She'd already been married twice. Her second husband was Willie Baker. The marriage didn't last, but she did keep his last name, Jose. Josephine Baker now performed in shows like Shuffle along and the Chocolate Dandies. And she found ways to stand out in the crowd. She pulled funny faces and crossed her eyes and deliberately tripped over when other dancers were kicking. A bit like when a footballer goes on Strictly Keep Dancing. And yet, Josephine was really popular. A bit like when a footballer goes on Strictly. As one spectator put it, Josephine stood.

[Narrator/Host]

Out like an exclamation mark.

[Greg Jenner]

Just as things were Going great for Josephine. Amid the shining lights of Broadway, she left for Paris. Now Paris was home to an exciting kind of new musical entertainment called Cabaret, where performers had a lot more creative freedom and a lot fewer clothes. People in Paris had seen nothing like Josephine before, and they loved her. She squished together loads of different kinds of dance, from Broadway to tap, bits of ballet. She was even inspired by kangaroos she'd seen hopping around in St. Louis Zoo. The Parisian spectators loved her, even if they didn't express that in the nicest of ways.

[Narrator/Host]

Josephine. Zero views are in.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

What do they say?

[Narrator/Host]

It walks with bent knees.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Did they call me?

[Narrator/Host]

Appears to be a moving saxophone.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

What does that even mean?

[Narrator/Host]

She goes off on all fours like a very young giraffe.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Is that.

[Narrator/Host]

Five stars? Hooray.

[Greg Jenner]

And Josephine was loving it, too.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

She said, I would love to die breathless, exhausted at the end of a dance.

[Greg Jenner]

Josephine used dancing to fight back against racist ideas. Her most well known dance was the Danse Sauvage, or Savage Dance, which made fun of people who thought that black people weren't civilized or even like animals. By performing this dance in a really over the top and very silly way, Josephine Baker made the audience see just how silly racist ideas about black people were. She famously danced wearing a skirt made of fake bananas, which is now an iconic symbol of her resistance. And Beyonce even wore one in her honor. Josephine Baker was now the toast of Paris and became one of the most highly paid performers in the world, as well as the first African American woman to star in a movie.

[Narrator/Host]

And action.

[Greg Jenner]

There were even Josephine Baker dolls long before Barbie.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Hi, Barbie. Hi, Josephine. What are you doing today? Being glamorous and revolutionary. You?

[Narrator/Host]

Sitting on a tower of Lego while my human felt tips my hair blue.

[Greg Jenner]

The cash was rolling in, so Josephine bought a luxury hotel suite and filled it with exotic pets. She had a SN called Kiki, a chimp in a hat called Ethel, a horse called Tomato. Yeah, Tomato, I suppose, because when she took him for a run, she could never catch up. Sorry. There were also monkeys, parakeets, a tortoise. Oh, and Albert, named after the matri of the hotel she stayed in.

[Narrator/Host]

A pig. I forget to put sea chocolate on your pillow one time.

[Greg Jenner]

Her most famous pet, though, was Chiquita the Cheetah, who wore a diamond studded collar. Josephine even took Chiquita to the cinema. I wonder what Chiquita made of the movies.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Despite some great performances, my review of Wicked is too much singing and not enough great big slabs of meat. Three stars. Next, a TikTok of a zebra with a hurty leg. Now this is cinema.

[Greg Jenner]

Josephine Baker also sang and opened her own club called Chez Josephine. It was stuffed with VIPs, including her beloved pets.

[Narrator/Host]

Mon Dieu. That's Pig again. He stinks.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Hey, we fixed his stink.

[Narrator/Host]

You gave him a bath?

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

No, I just doused him in perfume.

[Greg Jenner]

Yep, she really did perfume her pig. Josephine also got married a third time in 1937, to Jean Lyon. But then World War II broke out and France was invaded by the Nazis. Josephine signed up for duty in the Women's auxiliary of the French Air Force.

[Narrator/Host]

Look out. The French Air Force is attacking. Huh? One of those planes is really flying like Ein Saxophone.

[Greg Jenner]

She didn't fly planes, but Josephine became one of France's top spies.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

The name's Baker. Josephine Baker.

[Greg Jenner]

How does one of the most flamboyant women in the world become a undercover spy?

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, Baker, for this next mission, you'll need to infiltrate the enemy camp. Absolutely no one can detect you. Sure thing, Buff. I wonder if James Bond is free.

[Greg Jenner]

But because she was one of France's biggest stars, she thought nobody would search or suspect her. Which I guess is fair enough. It would be like Taylor swift working for MI5.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

It's me, spy.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm the agent.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

It's me.

[Greg Jenner]

Josephine was also able to meet lots of important people at fancy parties and learn all of their secrets. She would stash secret information under her clothes and write intel either on her own skin or on her sheet music. Very cool indeed, but not hugely helpful for the next singer. Using that sheet music, I went, 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

The Germans are deploying tanks to the south. Send reinforcements. Song is a lot more about tanks than I remembered.

[Greg Jenner]

Sometimes Josephine even used invisible ink. After the war, France gave Josephine Baker special medals for her bravery and she traveled the world. She even returned to America to perform. After all, she was an international superstar and a war hero. The so they'd surely have to be nice to her now, right? Sadly, in the 1950s and 60s, the USA was still very racist and still had something called segregation, which made it legal to discriminate against Black people. In 1951, Josephine accused the owner of a famous nightclub of racism because he refused to serve her. Surely everyone would have admired her taking such a courageous stand, right? A well known journalist accused Josephine of being a communist, which was so serious that she was investigated by the American government. They monitored her closely for 10 years.

[Narrator/Host]

One file even said, let's watch who employs this troublemaker.

[Greg Jenner]

In 1963, Josephine attended the famous march on Washington all decked out in her French Air Force uniform and medals. This was the event where the civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. Made his iconic I have a Dream speech. Josephine also made a passionate speech about her experiences as a black woman and entertainer. Now in her late 50s, she was really busy as a megastar, as an activist and as a mother to 12 kids.

[Narrator/Host]

12 kids?

[Greg Jenner]

Yup. She adopted children from many different backgrounds to show how people could all get along together, regardless of where they were from. Josephine raised them in a fancy chateau which had its own pool, restaurant, cheetah cage and viewing gallery. Viewing gallery? Yeah. She invited members of the public to come and see her kids for a small fee. Bit weird. How would you like it if your parents turned you into a tourist attraction?

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

And over here, you can see my teenage son in his natural habitat, in his pants, playing Minecraft.

[Greg Jenner]

To be fair to Josephine, she really wanted to show the world that it was possible for everyone to get along. Pretty soon, though, she ran out of money. Diamond encrusted collars for cheetahs don't come cheap. Josephine and her family were evicted from their chateau, which is the sort of problem that only happens in fairy tales. And what was she expecting anyway? Some beautiful princess to ride by and rescue her? Anyway, that's when a beautiful princess rode by and rescued her. Yeah. Luckily, Josephine's friend, Grace Kelly, a movie star and literal Princess of Monaco, put them up in one of her fancy French villas. I'm not sure they all would have fitted in the spare room, though.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm sure we can find somewhere for you to stay.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Thank you. It's just me and all my kids and my menagerie.

[Narrator/Host]

I'll shift the sofa bed.

[Greg Jenner]

Remember when Josephine had said earlier that she would love to die breathless, exhausted at the end of a dance? Well, I have some good news about Josephine's death. Yeah? On the 8th of April, 1975, Baker starred in a show to celebrate her 50 years in show business. The guest list was more star studded than Chiquita's collar. And the show was a huge hit. Josephine went back to her hotel room so happy she could die. So she did. But if you have to go, you might as well do it. Surrounded by rave reviews of your show.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

My fans say that I died of a full heart.

[Greg Jenner]

It was probably a cerebral haemorrhage, in fairness.

[Supporting Performer/Voice Actor]

Way to kill the mood, Greg.

[Greg Jenner]

Sorry. The French still adore Josephine, which makes sense with their tiny pastries. They do love a good Baker. I'm not sorry, but it is true. In 2021. Josephine Baker was given a place at the Pantheon in Paris, where some of the most important people in French history are memorialized.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome to the Pantheon of French heroes. We've got em all. Marie Curie, scientist, Voltaire, philosopher. And give it up for the first black woman in the Pantheon and first American, Josephine Baker.

[Greg Jenner]

What a hero. So how much do you remember from today's speedy history lesson? Let's find out. Pencils at the ready. Question 1. Josephine Baker's famous dancing skirt was made from which healthy snack? The answer, of course, was bananas. Question 2. Josephine had loads of pets, but what was the name of her pet? Cheetah. The cheetah was, of course, Chiquita. And question three. As a spy during the war, how did Josephine Baker smuggle secrets about the enemy back to her colleagues in France? And the answer, of course, is with invisible ink, hiding notes in her clothes and sheet music and writing it on her skin. Well done. Join us next time for another snappy history lesson. If you're a grown up and you want to learn more about Josephine Baker, you can listen to our episode of youf're Dead to Me with Dr. Michelle Cresfield. Thank you for listening.

[Narrator/Host]

Bye.

[Greg Jenner]

This was a BBC Studios audio production for Radio 4 Dead Funny History was written by Jack Bernhardt, Gabby Hutchison Crouch and Dr. Emma Nagus. It was hosted by me, Greg Jenner and performed by Mally Ann Reese and John Luke Roberts. The script consultant was Dr. Michelle Crestfield.

[Sarah (AM PM ad speaker)]

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure, you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell oatmeal. So long, you strange soggy.

[Narrator/Host]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit.

[Airalo Ad Speaker]

Made with K tree eggs, smoked bacon.

[Narrator/Host]

And melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AM P M. Too much. Good stuff.

[Airalo Ad Speaker]

Planning a trip out of the country? Let's do some quick math, shall we? Most phone Companies charge about 10 bucks a day to use your phone Abroad. Week long trip. That's $72 week vacation, 140 bucks just to use your phone. Or you could pack the Internet, get set up with international data in seconds with an ESIM from Airalo for a fraction of that cost. Here's the thing. Your phone likely supports esims. It's a digital SIM card. No plastic cards, no airport kiosk hunting, no sketchy public wi fi that doesn't work half the time anyway. Just download the Airalo app before you leave. Pick your destination and boom, you're connected the moment you land, stream, scroll, text, navigate, video call home, all without watching your phone bill explode. Airalo works in over 200 destinations and is trusted by over 20 million travelers. Download the Airalo app or visit airalo.com that's a I r a l o dot.com and use promo code packsmart for 15% off your first EIM terms apply. Arrive connected with AO.