You're Dead to Me – Kingdom of Benin

Podcast: You're Dead to Me (BBC Radio 4)
Host: Greg Jenner
Episode Date: December 25, 2025
Guests: Malian Reese (Comedian), John-Luke Roberts (Performer as Oba), Script support by Dr. Emma Nagus
Duration of History Content: 01:12–14:31

Episode Overview

This episode of "You're Dead to Me" dives into the fascinating, complex, and sometimes misunderstood history of the Kingdom of Benin. With trademark comedic banter and expert storytelling, host Greg Jenner and guests unravel the rise, golden age, and dramatic fall of one of West Africa’s most remarkable empires. The episode explores its origins, rulers, social structures, famed art (the Benin Bronzes), interactions with Europeans, the horror of enslavement, and ultimate colonial conquest—with plenty of facts, fun, and witty analogies along the way.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins of Benin (01:12–02:47)

• Geography & People:
  The Kingdom of Benin was established in what is now Southern Nigeria, with its capital city called Edo.

  • "The capital city was once known as Edo, which also refers to both the people and the language." (Greg Jenner, 01:24)

• Early Society:
  Before Benin became a kingdom, people lived in rainforest communities ruled by ‘Ogisos’—‘rulers of the sky.’

  • "Cool name." (Greg Jenner, 01:35)

• Comedic Aside:
  Mock banter about ruling the clouds, including the one that “looks like a mongoose.”

  • "Especially that cloud that looks like a mongoose." (Oba, 02:17)

2. The Founding Love Story and the Rise of the Oba (02:47–03:40)

• Legend of Benin’s Founding:
  Oral history says chaos led the Ogisos to seek help; a neighboring king sent his son, Oramen, who married locally, fathering Iweka—the first Oba of Benin.
  • "It was Iweka who became the first ruler of Benin. The Ogisos were gone and this new line of rulers were called the Obaz." (Greg Jenner, 03:21)

3. The Golden Age, Oba Power, and Social Structure (03:40–06:56)

• Oba Eware’s Rule (~1440):

  • Major reforms: rebuilding Benin City, strengthening the army, expanding territory, divine rulership.
    • "'But also us Obahs are kinda gods now. So let's back chat or I'll smite you.'" (Oba, 03:54)

• Veneration of the Oba:
  Emphasis on approaching on knees, massive royal court, rituals.

  • "Imagine how hard it would have been to bring him food." (Greg Jenner, 04:08)

• Rich Pantheon:
  Multiple gods for creation, waterfalls, war, and more.

  • "We're not sure why the names all begin with oh yeah." (Oba, 04:37)

• Expansion and Dynasties:
  Successive Obas conquer neighbors, win battles (e.g., Oba Ozolwa: 200 victories), and expand borders.

  • "The empire has never been bigger." (Malian Reese, 05:01)

• Queen Mothers (Iyobas) and Royal Women:

  • Obas had hundreds to thousands of wives.
  • The queen mother, Iyoba Idia, aided in military campaigns, honored with art and her own palace.
    • "Now that is how to treat your mum." (Greg Jenner, 05:51)

• Guilds and Professions:
  Besides agriculture, hundreds served the Oba; specialized guilds for doctors, drummers, dancers, acrobats, and, critically, soldiers and craftspeople.

4. Encounters With Europe and the Benin Bronzes (06:56–09:16)

• First Contact:

  • 1486: Portuguese arrived, bringing gifts (guns and coconuts) to Oba Ozolwa.
    • "Sounds to me like his plan was to open a coconut shire." (Greg Jenner, 07:01)

• English Arrivals and Hardship:

  • 1553: English sailors face deadly yellow fever and malaria; several failed attempts before successful contact.
    • "Most of the crew did die in the exact same way the second time." (Greg Jenner, 07:48)

• Trade and Artistic Flourishing:

  • Trade included ivory, pepper, metalwork; explosion of intricate art—especially the Benin Bronzes (mostly brass).
    • "Lots of these incredible bronzes were paid for by...which often meant that the bronzes celebrated me, the Oba." (Greg Jenner, 08:46)

• Art Control & Secrecy:

  • Bronze craftsmanship was a state secret; artists worked in guilds, only serving the Oba. Outsiders found making art risked execution.
    • "Imagine if independent art was still illegal now. They'd have to arrest everyone on Etsy." (Greg Jenner, 09:01)

5. The Impact of the Slave Trade (09:16–10:08)

• Expansion of Slavery:
  Enslavement existed pre-Europeans, but intensified through European involvement and trade.

  • "An awful practice which was already part of the social structure... Europeans came and made it even worse." (Greg Jenner, 09:25)

• Benin's Reputation Among Europeans:
  Accounts highlighted friendliness and honesty—contrasting with crime levels in European cities.

  • "The Europeans even said that theft wasn't really a problem when compared with European cities." (Greg Jenner, 09:44)

6. Sacrifice, Faith, and New Religions (10:08–11:23)

• Human Sacrifice:
  Differing accounts: sometimes actual servants, sometimes misinterpretations of criminal executions.

  • "After all, if you don't speak the Edo language... Both end up with a dead person at the end." (Greg Jenner, 10:27)

• Christianity’s Arrival:
  Early 16th century, Oba Esige’s son baptized, but traditional religion persisted.

  • "The presence of Catholicism did little to change the people of Benin's traditional religion." (Greg Jenner, 10:53)

• Europeans in Benin Art:
  Europeans depicted with “straight shoulder length hair, pointy noses and often carry guns. They kind of look like Lord Farquaad from Shrek.”

  • "Some of you may die, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make." (Oba as Lord Farquaad, 11:17)

7. Decline and Colonial Conquest (11:23–13:27)

• Kingdom’s Decline:
  17th–18th centuries: internal strife, external pressures, waning power.
• British Invasion of 1897:
  • Preceded by tension and a punitive expedition led by James Robert Phillips, who was killed with his men.
    • "Dear Diary, planning to overthrow the Oba in Benin because I am very concerned about how they treat prisoners. Definitely not to get hold of all their valuable natural resources." (Oba, 12:07)
  • Retaliatory British force razed Benin City, looted its sacred art, exiled the Oba, and annexed Benin to the British Empire.
    • "But not before the invading soldiers had added pillaging to their crime roster, looting thousands of pieces of artwork from the palace and elsewhere in Benin's city, some of which were deeply sacred to the people of Benin." (Greg Jenner, 13:09)
  • Modern restitution attempts mentioned: efforts to return the Benin Bronzes to Nigeria.
    • "So maybe someday there will be a happier ending to the story." (Greg Jenner, 13:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Divine Kingship:
  "But also us Obahs are kinda gods now. So let's back chat or I'll smite you." – Oba (03:54)

• On Royal Motherhood:
  "Now that is how to treat your mum." – Greg Jenner (05:51)

• On Artistic Secrecy & Modern Comparison:
  "Imagine if independent art was still illegal now. They'd have to arrest everyone on Etsy." – Greg Jenner (09:01)

• On European Misunderstanding of Benin Customs:
  "After all, if you don't speak the Edo language... Both end up with a dead person at the end." – Greg Jenner (10:27)

• On European depictions in Benin Art:
  "They kind of look like Lord Farquaad from Shrek." – Greg Jenner (11:13)
  "Some of you may die, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make." – Oba as Lord Farquaad (11:17)

• On Colonial Motivation Satire:
  "Dear Diary, today I oppressed a whole nation and nicked all their stuff. They were really grateful and said I was the best. Everybody clapped. The end." – Oba (02:47)
  "Dear Diary, planning to overthrow the Oba in Benin because I am very concerned about how they treat prisoners. Definitely not to get hold of all their valuable natural resources." – Oba (12:07)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:12: Episode Intro, Kingdom context, origins
• 02:10–02:47: The Ogisos and Benin's founding myths
• 03:00–03:40: The first Oba, end of Ogiso dynasty
• 03:40–04:39: Oba Eware, divine monarchy, new powers
• 05:04–05:57: Empire’s zenith, royal families, Queen Idia
• 06:13: Court life, professions, military
• 06:56–07:48: First contact with Portuguese/English
• 08:22–09:16: The Benin Bronzes, art in guilds, secrecy
• 09:16–10:08: Slave trade dynamics
• 10:08–10:53: Human sacrifice and criminal executions
• 10:53–11:23: Christianity, persistence of tradition, European imagery
• 11:23–12:30: Decline, British interest
• 12:30–13:27: 1897 Punitive Expedition, Benin’s destruction
• 13:27–13:49: Modern restitution efforts
• 14:01–14:26: Short quiz recap

Podcast Tone

This episode balances in-depth history with rapid-fire humor, satirical sketches, and playful dialogue, keeping difficult topics accessible without trivializing their seriousness.

Quick Quiz Recap (14:01–14:26)

• Q1: Kingdom of Benin is in which modern country?
  "Nigeria." – Malian Reese (14:01)
• Q2: Name for Benin's rulers?
  "Obas." – Oba (14:11)
• Q3: Famous artwork stolen in 1897?
  "Benin bronzes." – Malian Reese (14:24)

Final Thoughts

This episode swiftly and smartly provides a complete introduction to the Kingdom of Benin’s rich history, debunks colonial myths, and spotlights ongoing issues of cultural restitution. It’s full of lively exchanges and clever asides, making it accessible both for newcomers to African history and those craving a deeper, more nuanced understanding.