“Marco Polo: History’s Most Famous Travel Writer?” - You’re Dead to Me Podcast Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: You’re Dead to Me
• Host: Greg Jenner
• Guests:
  • Professor Sharon Kinoshita: Distinguished Professor of Literature at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Expert in 12th and 13th-century intercultural relations between Asia and Europe, and the latest translator of Marco Polo’s book.
  • Ria Lina: Comedian, actor, and writer known for her appearances on TV shows like Live at the Apollo and Radio 4’s News Quiz and The Now Show.

Episode Overview: In this engaging episode, Greg Jenner delves into the life and legacy of Marco Polo, exploring whether he truly deserves the title of history’s most famous travel writer. Joined by the insightful Professor Sharon Kinoshita and the humorous Ria Lina, the discussion navigates through Polo’s extensive travels, his influential writings, and the broader historical context of the 13th century.

1. Introduction to Marco Polo

Greg Jenner (00:44):
"Today we are packing our trip and boarding a ship to 13th century China to learn all about medieval traveler Marco Polo."

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (01:29):
"Thanks, Greg. I'm delighted to be here."

Ria Lina (01:53):
"Thank you so much. It's great to be here."

The episode begins with an introduction to Marco Polo, highlighting his significance as a medieval traveler and writer. Greg sets the stage for an exploration of Polo’s life, supported by historical expertise and comedic insights.

2. Marco Polo’s Early Life and Venetian Heritage

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (04:40):
"He was born in 1254. That much we're pretty sure of. So mid 13th century into a merchant family of Venice."

Ria Lina (05:03):
"Well, I have to say that really helps place things for me because I know, like, Venice. I don't know how old Venice is, but it's at least as old as the 1200s."

Marco Polo was born into a merchant family in Venice, a prominent maritime republic of the time. While detailed records of his childhood are scarce, his upbringing in a bustling trading hub undoubtedly influenced his future voyages.

3. The Journey to the Mongol Empire

Greg Jenner (11:31):
"So that’s Marco's the big exciting explorer, but the dad and uncle have already done it, so there’s already a trade network there."

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (08:31):
"We know about them. And then the little we know about his family comes from contracts that survive in the archives."

In 1271, at the age of 17, Marco Polo joins his father Nicolo and uncle Maffeo on a 24-year journey to the court of Kublai Khan in Mongol-controlled China. This expedition marks a significant period in Polo’s life, positioning him at the heart of one of the world’s most expansive empires.

4. Life in the Mongol Empire

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (17:24):
"They could cover, let's say, 10 days journey for normal travelers in a day and a night."

Marco Polo’s time in the Mongol Empire provided him with unparalleled insights into its infrastructure and governance. The empire’s advanced postal system, known as the yam, allowed for rapid communication across vast distances, akin to a medieval Pony Express.

Ria Lina (19:23):
"72 hours to have a craving for a kiwi. Send the message to the far reaches of your empire and get it back again. I'll be honest, as a woman who gets cravings, that's still a long time to wait."

The yam facilitated not only political and military communication but also the transport of luxury goods, enhancing Marco’s observations on economic and administrative practices, including the use of paper money—an innovation not present in Europe at the time.

5. Observations and Cultural Insights

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (20:10):
"The idea that you have money that was good, you know, over the vast stretch of empire is just mind blowing."

Marco Polo’s descriptions in his book provided Europeans with detailed accounts of Asian customs, flora, fauna, and the socio-political landscape. Notably, his observations on the use of paper money illustrated the economic sophistication of the Mongol Empire compared to fragmented European currencies.

Ria Lina (22:00):
"Thinking about eagle poo as a method for diamond mining? That’s genius."

Among the fascinating tales Marco recounts are unique methods of diamond mining in India, such as using eagles to extract diamonds from meat—a testament to the innovative yet unusual practices he encountered.

6. Representation of Women and Social Customs

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (27:05):
"The women of Tibet as particularly interesting."

Marco Polo’s writings also shed light on the roles and societal structures of women in various regions, such as Tibet. He describes matriarchal practices where women held significant authority, particularly in marital arrangements, highlighting a contrast to European norms of the era.

Ria Lina (28:18):
"These women need to be on the speaker circuit or get them a TikTok account. Yeah, something that is brilliant."

The nuanced portrayal of women in Polo’s accounts offers a valuable perspective on gender dynamics in medieval Asia, challenging contemporary European perceptions.

7. The Composition of Polo’s Book in Prison

Greg Jenner (33:53):
"He gets back home, and four years later, he's in jail in Genoa."

Upon his return to Venice in 1295, Marco Polo becomes embroiled in political conflicts and ends up imprisoned by Genoese rivals. It is during his incarceration that he meets Rustichello, a renowned writer from Pisa, and together they compose "Description of the World."

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (34:48):
"Rustichello is front and center saying, 'I, Rustichello of Pisa, got Marco to tell me these stories, and I'm writing them down.'"

The collaboration between Polo and Rustichello resulted in a detailed account of Polo’s travels, serving both as a personal memoir and a grandiose description intended to captivate a wide readership.

8. The Book’s Impact and Legacy

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (43:49):
"Marco Polo's Book of India that describes that maritime route is really, you know, even though it's kind of old, it's the information that we have."

"Description of the World" became a bestseller in the Middle Ages, translating Marco’s experiences into Latin and subsequently into numerous European languages. Its dissemination played a pivotal role in inspiring future explorers, including Christopher Columbus, who heavily relied on Polo’s accounts during his voyages.

Ria Lina (44:16):
"If only he followed it, he would have found Asia."

The book’s enduring popularity underscores its significance as a bridge between East and West, offering Europeans a glimpse into the complexities and wonders of Asian civilizations.

9. Closing Insights and Reflections

Professor Sharon Kinoshita (47:44):
"Marco Polo was a real myth buster. His descriptions strike us as surprisingly modern."

In her concluding remarks, Professor Kinoshita emphasizes the modernity of Marco Polo’s observations and narrative style. Polo’s ability to document and describe diverse cultures with a degree of objectivity and detail remains impressive even by today’s standards.

Ria Lina (55:23):
"Our motto being, of course, what happens in the Mongol Empire stays in the Mongol Empire."

The episode wraps up with lighthearted banter, reflecting on the blend of historical facts and humorous interpretations that make the discussion both informative and entertaining.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Professor Sharon Kinoshita (04:40):
  "He was born in 1254. That much we're pretty sure of. So mid 13th century into a merchant family of Venice."

• Ria Lina (05:03):
  "I think it's more modern than we would think it would be in the 1200s."

• Ria Lina (19:23):
  "72 hours to have a craving for a kiwi. Send the message to the far reaches of your empire and get it back again."

• Professor Sharon Kinoshita (21:17):
  "Anyway, some of the early examples of the paper recorded their value and other information in several languages so that it could circulate."

• Ria Lina (22:00):
  "Thinking about eagle poo as a method for diamond mining? That’s genius."

• Professor Sharon Kinoshita (34:48):
  "Rustichello is front and center saying, 'I, Rustichello of Pisa, got Marco to tell me these stories, and I'm writing them down.'"

• Ria Lina (52:35):
  "It's gotta be. You get some sticky meat, you throw it in a cavern. The diamonds are naturally attracted to the sticky meat."

• Professor Sharon Kinoshita (47:44):
  "Marco Polo was a real myth buster. His descriptions strike us as surprisingly modern."

Conclusion

This episode of You’re Dead to Me masterfully intertwines historical scholarship with comedic relief, providing listeners with a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of Marco Polo’s life and works. Through Professor Kinoshita’s expertise and Ria Lina’s humor, the podcast not only educates but also engages, making the rich tapestry of Marco Polo’s travels accessible and enjoyable for all audiences.