You're Wrong About Episode: The Hitler Diaries with Adrian Daub Release Date: June 11, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of You're Wrong About, host Sarah Marshall delves into one of the most infamous publishing hoaxes in history: the Hitler Diaries. Joined by Adrian Dob and Miranda Zickler, the episode explores the intricate details of how the fake diaries were created, the motivations behind the deception, and the profound impact it had on the public and the legacy of journalism.

Setting the Stage: The Hoax Unveiled

The conversation begins with Sarah Marshall introducing the topic of the Hitler Diaries hoax, highlighting its capacity to captivate a credulous public momentarily. She poses critical questions about the fabrication process, the motivations of the hoaxer, and the public's susceptibility to such deception.

Sarah Marshall [00:16]:
"This is an episode about not just any publishing hoax, but about the fake Hitler Diaries, which for a moment captivated a vast and credulous public."

Adrian Dob recalls encountering the hoax in pre-internet times, noting his initial relief when the diaries were debunked, aligning with his fascination with adventure genres like Indiana Jones.

Adrian Dob [03:35]:
"They're full. They're like, you know, there's like the Uncle John's Bathroom reader that has like 800 volumes."

Origins of the Hoax: Conrad Kuyao’s Scheme

Miranda Zickler introduces Conrad Kuyao, the mastermind behind the Hitler Diaries hoax. Born in 1938, Kuyao's background is shrouded in mystery, with many aspects of his life possibly fabricated. His trajectory from dealing in Nazi memorabilia to orchestrating an elaborate diary scam is meticulously unpacked.

Miranda Zickler [17:08]:
"These are both revealing the truth that they don't quite know about themselves. And this one is both."

Kuyao capitalized on the clandestine fascination surrounding Nazi artifacts, initially faking Hitler paintings and later expanding into diaries. His operations were primarily directed at a niche market of Nazi memorabilia collectors, both in Germany and internationally.

Miranda Zickler [21:46]:
"These guys are like, oh, the grandeur of the period. Okay, say more about that... These guys are like fascinations verging on sympathy for the Nazis."

The Publication and Rise of the Diaries

In April 1983, the German magazine Der Stern announced possession of Hitler’s secret diaries, igniting a bidding war among major publications. The sheer volume—62 fake volumes—lent an aura of authenticity, convincing many that they were genuine.

Miranda Zickler [06:29]:
"The idea that someone would be maniacal enough to fake... seemed like a lot."

However, initial acceptance was swiftly overturned when forensic analysis revealed discrepancies in the paper and binding, confirming the diaries were modern fakes.

Miranda Zickler [06:43]:
"The mass quantity... no one read the damn things all the way through."

The Motives Behind the Hoax

The discussion pivots to understanding why Kuyao perpetrated such an elaborate fraud. Miranda suggests it was a quintessentially 1980s endeavor driven by overpromising and the relentless pursuit of profit.

Miranda Zickler [08:22]:
"It is someone who has over promised and then now has to deliver and wants more money and therefore ends up being like, fuck, I gotta write another one of these things."

The comparison to Clifford Irving’s hoax with Howard Hughes underscores the audacity and risks involved in such deceptions.

Adrian Dob [09:40]:
"Howard Hughes. That's right."

The Downfall: Unraveling the Hoax

By May 1983, the authenticity of the Hitler Diaries was publicly debunked. The forensic evidence was irrefutable, leading to an abrupt collapse of the hoax. The swift exposure was facilitated by the meticulousness of the investigative journalists and the pre-existing skepticism among experts due to prior forgeries in circulation.

Miranda Zickler [14:33]:
"Turns out there is a... an enduring mystery here."

However, the damage to Der Stern and the involved individuals was immense. Both Kuyao and journalist Gerd Heidemann, who had been instrumental in promoting the diaries, faced legal repercussions.

Adrian Dob [15:24]:
"That's why it collapses in this absolutely spectacular fashion."

Psychological and Cultural Implications

The episode delves into the psychological motivations of both Kuyao and Heidemann, exploring themes of obsession, addiction to deceit, and the allure of being at the center of a groundbreaking story. Miranda Zickler emphasizes the duality of their personas: genuinely passionate yet deceitfully self-serving.

Miranda Zickler [45:27]:
"It's honestly the most guileless story imaginable. Everyone is super genuine while also lying their asses off."

The hoax also reflects broader cultural issues, such as society’s struggle to reconcile with its Nazi past and the ethical pitfalls of legacy media’s commercialism.

Legacy and Lessons Learned

Miranda Zickler discusses the long-term ramifications of the Hitler Diaries hoax on journalistic integrity and public trust. She asserts that the event serves as a cautionary tale about the vulnerabilities of even reputable publications to deception when financial incentives overshadow ethical standards.

Miranda Zickler [72:23]:
"It's far more interesting that people who put a great degree of faith in legacy media... can be fed a bunch of bullshit, too."

The hoax underscores the importance of thorough vetting processes and the need for skepticism, especially when extraordinary claims are involved.

Sarah Marshall [84:01]:
"That's what I love about these hoax stories. Everyone in there is telling the truth much more genuinely than they do at any other time in their life sometimes."

Conclusion

The episode concludes by reflecting on the messy interplay between truth and deception, and how the Hitler Diaries hoax remains a stark reminder of the fragile line between credible journalism and elaborate fraud. Miranda Zickler's insights illuminate the complex motivations and cultural contexts that allow such hoaxes to not only exist but momentarily thrive.

Adrian Dob [83:42]:
"Everyone is revealing so much about what they actually think and feel and the ugliness and the messiness of that."

Sarah Marshall (Closing) [82:12]:
"Thank you for being here with us. Thank you to Adrian Daub for being our amazing guest."

Notable Quotes

• Sarah Marshall [00:16]:
  "This is an episode about not just any publishing hoax, but about the fake Hitler Diaries, which for a moment captivated a vast and credulous public."

• Miranda Zickler [08:22]:
  "It is someone who has over promised and then now has to deliver and wants more money and therefore ends up being like, fuck, I gotta write another one of these things."

• Miranda Zickler [21:46]:
  "These guys are like, oh, the grandeur of the period. Okay, say more about that... These guys are like fascinations verging on sympathy for the Nazis."

• Miranda Zickler [72:23]:
  "It's far more interesting that people who put a great degree of faith in legacy media... can be fed a bunch of bullshit, too."

• Adrian Dob [83:42]:
  "Everyone is revealing so much about what they actually think and feel and the ugliness and the messiness of that."

Further Listening

For those interested in exploring more about this story, Miranda Zickler recommends checking out the German podcast that delves deeper into the Hitler Diaries hoax, as well as her own work on Substack, where she discusses various topics related to German history and contemporary issues.

Miranda Zickler [82:20]:
"You can find my writing on Substack where I talk about a lot of German stuff, but not just. Also just a lot of American things these days."

Thank you for listening!

Thank you to Adrian Dob and Miranda Zickler for their insightful contributions, and to Corinne Ruff and Carolyn Kendrick for editing and producing. Join us next week as we continue to reconsider another misunderstood person or event from the past.