← Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Building Winners: Tony Vitello on Culture, Development & the Future of College Baseball
00:51:06
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- [00:00]
A
Make sure you subscribe to both our YouTube channel and our RSS feed for all future conversations here at you think. All right, so I am super pumped for today's conversation on you think. One of my favorite coaches, my wife always jokes, she's like, she goes, tony Vitello at Tennessee. I kind of feel like he's like your spirit animal, Greg. Like you guys, you're intense, like coach and ball. Tony the head coach, national champion, Tennessee. Man, I can't thank you enough for taking some time out. I know you're down in Miami recruiting as we sit here chatting, but I really appreciate you joining us for a fun combo here on you think.
- [00:39]
B
My pleasure. And thank you for the intro. I'm fortunate enough to work at a great place, but a part of what is a tremendous conference. So it kind of puts you on a stage that, you know, sometimes you feel like you don't deserve. But no, the intro helps my confidence too, because I saw your previous guests and I was like, man, Greg's falling off a little bit. Tom Brady, Malcolm, so some pretty good names. Kudos to you for what you got rolling.
- [01:04]
A
No, it's super fun and obviously having a chance to talk to someone like you who has the perspective. And I want to jump into recruiting. I want to jump into Tennessee. I actually took one of my official visits coming out of high school to Tennessee in the Phil Fulmer era back in the early 2000s. But I want to start and then obviously the national championship and we're going to get into all that. But I want to start with, like, I always feel like I can recognize a guy who grew up the son of a coach. My dad was a 40 plus year high school football coach in New Jersey. Grew up, played for him. He's the only coach I ever knew when I was a kid. I know your dad is a legendary coach. You played for him. Soccer, baseball, multi sports. I want to start there, like, give everyone a sense. Where does your competitive spirit come from? You know, your fire, what. What got you into this coaching world and how much of it was. Was your father?
- [01:57]
B
It was a ton of it. Of course, my mother was there too, to support him and get us to all the sporting events that were going on. I think like, you know, your episode with Tom was incredible. I think he had three older sisters too. That's what I did. So I always tell our players, any of my faults, you can blame it on that. I was the youngest, had three older sisters, but they were competitive too. A lot of them, you know, they partook in Athletics too. But it all came from my dad. I mean, his distaste for losing wore off on you, whether you knew it or not. So you found yourself extremely competitive at a young age. And then I was able to sit on the bench. Sometimes the players didn't like that because they wanted to say things. I know you kind of had the experience too. When your dad is a disciplinarian, you hear things and see things. And maybe people don't appreciate the values they're getting from that coach, but I really got a lot out of sitting on those benches or just being at different sporting events. At my high school, just met Jesuit High in St. Louis, and my dad coached about every sport you can imagine.
- [02:58]
A
Yeah, And I know you played multiple sports. Like, how critical was that for you? And obviously now you've made baseball your career, but like, how much perspective have you drawn not only as a player yourself, but now as a coach? How much perspective have you drawn just from being exposed to different sports starting at a young age?
- [03:17]
B
Yeah, a ton. And that's the specialization question is a big one. But I reflect on my personal deal and I wasn't a superstar player, but I got to be around all these different guys and coaches. So I still look back like a third grade basketball coach said something to me that stuck with me forever. You know, all these teammates I had in a variety of sports, a lot of them are still friends to this day. And some of them I look back on and they're poor examples of how to be a teammate that I'll bring up to, to our team and then even more so there's good examples and it's like, hey, this guy, you know, back in the day, is he. He became a legend because. Not because of his talent, but because he was such a great teammate.
- [03:57]
A
All right, so let's stay there because I want I. So I coach a 13 year old travel baseball team here in Charlotte. I've had a lot of these boys since they were nine. We're now just getting to the big field. That's a whole transition for a later day that kids are starting to experience, but something that I really try to implement. And I'm not a baseball guy. I've learned baseball just through my children. I played young kid baseball. Nothing at any significant level. I apply a lot of like the football culture, things that I know because that's obviously my only perspective and I try to implement it into our baseball team, you know, being great teammates. A lot of the things you're talking about, there's talk to Me about what you found as being the key kind of fundamental course of like building great culture teams specific to baseball. Like, give me an idea of what should I be doing, what should our listeners be doing as they kind of venture through this world of youth baseball and then into high school and beyond?
- [04:55]
B
Yeah, I think just baseball on the whole, it could be big leagues, it could be. The level you're talking about is there's a lot of downtime in baseball. So personality shouldn't just be encouraged. It's kind of a requirement. There's only, you know, for our Sport, there's probably 20 to 35 minutes of actual action that go on during the game. But the game could last three hours. So that time in the dugout, the time in pre game, spitting seeds, the conversations that take place post game, those are so crucial. You know, if you win, you go get ice cream. That is just as much of a part of it as it is hitting with the bases loaded. And I think if you're going to have all that downtime and personality is a key ingredient, everybody should be very comfortable in their own skin. So one that we can laugh about. You're younger than I am. But that Philadelphia Phillies team with Darren Dalton, John Crook, Lenny Dykstra, no coincidence that they were winning. I mean, they had a lot of guys that, that had ability and confidence that came with it. But holy cow, the personalities. And then Kevin Millar with the Boston Red Sox when they quote, unquote, broke the curse. You know, just his personality on that team and now on TV all the time. And the Cubs. My dad's from Chicago. Bears fan, by the way. So if you want to stop and talk about Devin Hester at any time, we can do that. But. But yeah, I think that Cubs team finally kind of getting over the hump was a bunch of guys saying, hey, love it or hate it, we're the Cubs and we're writing history this particular year. And Joe Madden, I think, really unlocked the ability for a lot of those guys to be true to who they are as individuals.
- [06:32]
A
Is there like a fine line between loose and fun and like, silly? Now mind you, I'm not coaching high level division one athletes at 22 years old, right. My kids are 13, they're in seventh grade. They're silly. So here I am in like my football mode where like, everything's the end of the world, every detail matters. And now as I've experienced baseball, I'm like, there is a lot of downtime. We are kind of shooting the shit in the dugout. We are not. Everything is bottom of the ninth, you know, bases loaded, like. So how do we find the balance between loose, fun, but focused?
- [07:09]
B
Yeah. I think you've been in a locker room before or during a game where you felt like the guys got complacent because you've been on so many winning teams, and that's a very eerie and uncomfortable feeling, and you wish you could go back in time and stomp it out. So for me, as a coach, our guys are young. I think giddy is kind of a word that sticks out, that kind of encompasses that feeling you start to get, because loose is so, so key, especially when you get to a heightened moment. You know, the. The Conor McGregor fight that was legendary against Jose Aldo. One guy looks like he wants to kill the other guy, and then Conor McGregor looks so loose that the commentators, you know, Rogan throws that out. Next thing you know, it's over. So loose is a very key ingredient, but so is focused. And, you know, you. I have a lot of respect for you. We get to recruit our athletes. You're inheriting a lot of your guys, and they're. They're 12 and 13, very various interests. So if you said to them, hey, we got to be loose but focused, they'd probably be like, hey, man, what the hell? You know? But it's the same as holding a baseball. You got to hold it firm but loose. These balances are key ingredients, and I think kids need us to help educate them on. On what that is. And, you know, it's kind of like, we do a lot of travel for recruiting. You get in the rental car, and I like my base in Treble the way I like it. The previous person may have not. So one thing you can do for these kids is figure out those dials, and you're never going to get them perfect. And that's kind of the fun of it. But there does need to be that balance.
- [08:38]
A
Yeah, I'm, like, picturing myself, like, next weekend at our tournament. What? Could I be better in the dugout? And my mind is racing right now. All right, so you're down in Miami. You're recruiting the PBR national kind of showcase world that's going on. I want to dive into some of the youth baseball things. I don't want to say issues, but just the youth baseball reality that is playing out. That I'm sure is very different, and you live it every single day. But whether I'm sitting in your team meeting at Tennessee, or I'm a high school kid or a grad transfer Kid or whoever it is. And you're recruiting me. Like, who are you trying to recruit? Like, give us an idea of the. The ultimate target, the ideal recruit to come to the University of Tennessee to try to win Tony, win national championships with you. Like, who is that kid?
- [09:24]
B
Yeah, and that's kind of a variation of the question we often get at the, at the park. It'll be, you know, like a mom. Hey, I don't want to bother you. I see you're watching the game, but what are you guys looking for? And you know, there is no magic answer other than what you just said. You're looking for someone that can help you win. So if we backtrack it a little bit, what kind of resume does that individual have now? Our scholarships are changing and things like that. But like, for instance, do you have good grades? Because if you can, you can get an academic scholarship. Or at the very least, we know you're going to be eligible and you're going to be organized and then, you know, so on and so forth. And a guy might be just blazing fast. You know, I was joking about Hester there, but a guy could be crazy.
- [10:03]
A
He would have been a good base stealer.
- [10:05]
B
Yeah, no doubt.
- [10:06]
A
He's got hot side all day.
- [10:08]
B
No doubt, no doubt. I feel like he was that guy that you knew he was supposed to be fast, but until you saw it in real time, you couldn't catch up. And that's why he was able to surprise some people, even in a Super bowl kickoff. It was fun to watch. But, you know, if you're fast, maybe you get a little leeway from a scout on the hitting tool. So the bottom line is you want your resume to be as strong as possible. So one kid, yeah, you might end up on Twitter hitting a big homer because, you know, you captured that moment and you have power. But what about the other 20 at bats that weren't captured on Twitter? Were they strikeouts? Are you struggling to put the ball in play? So I feel like the better resume you have, the more attractive you are to us. And then it'll jumping into playing time stuff. Guys that are in college need to be able to come into me, not have their parents or agent reach out about playing time. And if you come into the office, you better bring your resume with you. Not literally, but figuratively speaking. Say, hey, this is like in the weight room, I'm our best worker. Or, you know, I realize I'm not our best hitter, but on defense, I can do this, this and this. So it's important for Kids to be well rounded.
- [11:20]
A
And you brought up the scholarship thing and I want to dive into that because I know a lot of our, our families, our listeners, even my own family and the kids that we go to school with, we go to a very competitive baseball school here in Charlotte. We've got some really high level kids. Our shortstop last year got drafted. Like it's a really good program that produces a lot of power for and draft pick players. So we hear all these stories about who's being recruited by who and who's hearing from what schools. And then there's always the question of how many scholarships are there? Is it 11.7? Is it going to go to 30? Is every school going to have the money to go to 30? Like what Kellis boots on the ground, what exactly is the current state and the future of high level Division 1 college baseball? And as far as the scholarships and.
- [12:06]
B
All of that, yeah, it's a mess and.
- [12:10]
A
Okay, let's stay right there.
- [12:12]
B
Fortunately, it's a mess off the field and pertaining to logistics on the field, you're dealing with more coverage, more interest, more star power. The coaches and I would speak on my support staff, there's a higher level of coaching. It's become insane how big of a party Omaha is. And then also some of the other levels. I mean if you go to a JUCO World Series in Grand Junction, it's one of the best events you could ever go to. So we're doing great there. Off the field, it's just a crazy time and there's a lot to manage. And so where we're headed now with college baseball in particular is a complete imbalance. There are some major universities that do not have fully funded scholarships, meaning being able to hand out a full scholarship or one that's similar to a basketball or football player. A lot of the schools in the SEC now can sit a family down and say, hey, we're going to pay for your tuition fees, books and also your dorm and your food too. It's the first time in the history of college baseball ever that could some, that some could do that, but there's a lot that can't. And so you know, I don't know how far date this far back. You could date this, this imbalance with any sport in college, but I think it's probably more prevalent than ever and it's, it's kind of frustrating. I'm fortunate to be kind of with the haves and the have nots if you're going to divide it into that or I mean we had 105,000 at that football game last Saturday. But I wouldn't mind it if. You know what? Yeah, Oregon's tied into Nike, but you only get six uniforms. Everybody can have six uniforms, max. Everyone's locker room can only be this maximum size, not four stories. I would love to make it as even as possible. So like you did. I was never man enough to play football. I guess my dad coached soccer too. But let's just line up face mask to face mask, chest to chest, whatever it might be and find out who's better. We're getting more and more away from that in college, I think.
- [14:10]
A
So give us an idea. At a. At a fully fund. So at the University of Tennessee, how many fully funded scholarships every year are you guys able to carry?
- [14:19]
B
The rosters have shrunk to. You could technically have an infinite amount of players in the fall if you wanted to. So in our league, it's so competitive, no one. No one had 100 players. But, you know, for every player, you might hit on an All American or something like that. Now it's being pushed down to 34. So somewhere between 35 and 30 players is just for brevity's sake, is going to be the maximum that a Division 1 team could have. Some of these teams are still plugged into 11.7. So if you do the math, you're looking at like 40% is a huge scholarship for us who you asked about. We're able to give most of our players a full scholarship, which is kind of the. It's kind of easy. It was hell having the 11.7 conversation. How new was that?
- [15:05]
A
Just so we're all clear, like, that's only within the last couple years. Years, right?
- [15:09]
B
Yeah. Yeah, only last couple years. And you people were using Nil to actually. And I don't know if I'm gonna get thrown in jail or not, but let's just be honest. People were using nil to cover the. The blind spots for the 11.7. So at least, you know, hey, these kids are presenting so much or representing the universities and presenting so much value for them. They shouldn't have out of pocket costs. A common great story. I'm sorry, I don't remember his name, but the left fielder for Coastal Carolina, he was their spirit animal and their leader and one of their best players. They went a World Series, a national championship, and he's like $150,000 in college debt. That just doesn't make sense. So Nil did help cover that up. Well now instead of sitting down and saying we love you but we can only provide 50%. You owe the other 50. Now the new 11.7 conversation is what about rev share? What about nil? And the thing that sucks about it, Greg, is it's, it's super gray. Like what can you say? But what are other teams saying anyway? And it's again, I feel like we're a long way away from being, let's make this as competitively equal as possible and just find out who's better at either scouting or developing or coaching or just who's the better, more confident team on that day.
- [16:26]
A
Yeah, the whole thing is so fascinating. I want one more follow up to that and then I want to talk about like the youth baseball scene for a minute because I think so many of our listeners, like that's where they're currently living. I know that's where I currently am. But to stay on that last conversation for one more Second, so what August 1st, that's when all the rising juniors are now able to be contacted by coaches. So a bunch of families, we know of high school kids, they're excited. Who's calling me? The biggest question all these families have is with the portal, with high school, with transferring and with the current landscape, is there a blueprint to the makeup of a roster being recruited? Kids out of high school, transfer portal kids, juco kids. Like how do you, or does it change every year? Like what is your approach to how you handle allocating now those 30 to 35 spots when it's no longer just 18 year old high school kids coming every year and let's coach them up.
- [17:24]
B
Yeah, ultimately it's chaos. And as well as college baseball coaches are being paid or funded, programs being funded, you got to have a plan in place. But a common question is, okay, now it's 34 players only. How many pitchers, how many hitters and are you going to do two way guys? Well, the draft can interfere with all that in a hurry for any program. So it truly is chaos. And then same thing for a kid that's being recruited. Again, programs are well funded so there's some very smart and savvy individuals that are able to talk to kids and, and sometimes parents, you know, this might be one. Should parents be on speakerphone or not? I mean, but sometimes parents don't get word what's going on at all. Next thing you know, their kid wants to commit to somebody and they don't know what's been said. So the bottom line is there, there are some good sales pitches and for good reason out There from certain programs. But, you know, for a kid to make his decision, I think he truly just needs to find a good match. Where does he vibe with and who has the trends that he likes. So a school may have a trend for more portal guys or less Portal guys are in the middle. But two years from now, you can't predict what's going to happen because of the draft. Or maybe here's a good example, and this is a personal tangent. I always hated the hey, you're going to be our third baseman or the guarantees because it's open competition. And, you know, one thing I thought the Portal might stomp out is if you think about it, okay, how many catchers you gonna have in this recruiting class? Only one. And we're not gonna recruit one next year. I can make it sound as good as I want, but if there's a kid from Knoxville, Tennessee that goes to X, you know, mid major and is an all American and is the team USA catcher, he's arguably the best guy in the country. He calls, I'm in the Portal, I want to go to Tennessee. I'm pretty confident we're taking them. You're taking them. Everybody listening here is going to take the kids. So I think more than ever, it's, hey, put the playing time thing aside and just focus on what trends in this program. Hey, they produce great hitters or most of their pitchers. They really produce great lefties, whatever it might be, and just kind of steer it towards that. And also know that this ain't a perfect world. I went to three different schools. I know you made an adjustment from Notre Dame to Miami all for the better. It's not the end of the world if it's not the best decision.
- [19:52]
A
No question. And with all that being said at a lot. And again, I'm not asking you to compare. I know obviously Tennessee is at the top of this world. So again, I'm not asking you to compare and contrast, but just in general, where is development in all of this? What is your approach internally about development? When. Now you can just. Sorry, excuse me. When you can accumulate more good players and transfer Portal and recruit any kid you want in the country, how vital through this entire process is development?
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, I think it's blurred lines. Everybody says it. I mean, if you're good enough and, you know, I'm willing to bet your son is, he's probably a little bit athletic. But the key thing he's going to get is he's going to know how to navigate sports. And I think that's Undervalued. He's going to know how to navigate the locker room and failure in social media and things like that from your guidance. So regardless of what level it is, if he does continue, you better be prepared for every coach to say, we're going to develop you. You know, and it's funny, in a day and age where people can Google, like, I could tell you, hey, Knoxville's two and a half hours from Nashville. Well, you can either take my word for it or only take you two seconds to fact check me. But I think for a topic that's so important, there's not a lot of fact checking that goes on. It's, hey, he said they develop guys, so they develop people. And I think it's important to do a little bit of research, because that word in particular, and I'm just speaking on the whole, more from my dad's perspective than what we're doing at Tennessee. It's fading a little bit, and I don't think it's all coach's fault. I think it's kind of the environment. And I'll speak on a sequence in a minute. But I think one thing you and I saw with our dads is they were the Bob Knight type. And I always say that, like, my dad wasn't throwing chairs or strangling anybody, and I got a lot of respect for Bob Knight, but they were almost kind of the dictator, it seemed, because they were so disciplinarian. I don't think it was the yelling or the intimidating that was getting the teaching done. I think it's the people that are most like that. And there still are some, like Coach Barnes at Tennessee is really hard on our guys in practice. But the reason he is, is he's a man of principle, and he believes more in developing guys as men of faith, as men in the community. And guys who take the, you know, take advantage of what they've been given, and those are his principles. And the winning and the getting drafted and all that stuff falls way down the priority list. So development becomes very high. But let's go with. And I'll be Smart Alec. Let's go with Slick Willie, Coach. And he's more of a salesman and isn't really interested in helping a kid that's failing. He'll just recruit the next guy that's better. Well, I got to support that approach a little bit, too, in this day and age, because, okay, let's say your son's good enough to be a PBR or Perfect Game All American. He's going to and let's just say it's a kid named J or Jake or John Smith. He, he's going to be good enough to potentially get drafted. So let's say he says no to the draft, shows up at school, he's had all these accolades. I'm a freshman, hey, I could have went and played for the Yankees minor league team. I should be playing here. Well, maybe he doesn't quite know the game that well because it's showcase, showcase, showcase. And he's not ready to play against, you know, Oregon or South Carolina or Florida State because he doesn't know the game. And he needs some seasoning. Well, what's the first instinct now out there is move on to the next team. So there's no seasoning, there's no synergy, there's nothing like that. It's just this bouncing around and in some cases it works. And some people need an adjustment in the scenario they're in. But it's a two way street on this development thing. Probably fading a little more than it should.
- [23:40]
A
Well, what you just described is youth baseball. So now we're going to go a little younger now. Right? And I'm not even talking about at the high school level. I'm saying this is happening at 10 years old. They haven't even gotten to the big field yet. And everything you just described, that's youth baseball. The days of practicing with your kids and one core team and playing with them, win, lose or draw. You show back up to practice on Monday after Sunday's PG event and you get back to work and you work on your first and thirds and you work on your double cuts and whenever you didn't do well over the weekend, you get back to work. Right now what we're seeing, and obviously you're recruiting a lot of these kids later on in the pipeline is instead of teaching my shortstop and developing them to get better, there's 10 shortstops within two hours that can be at the game on Saturday for pool play. I'll get one of them to come. And now instantly I'm a better coach. So like, where are the lines have really been blurred. And I'm very curious what you're seeing coming out of the high school ranks as a result of this. Like, are kids less developed? Are they better skilled baseball players with less understanding of the game as a result of this early kind of format that we've created at the younger levels?
- [24:53]
B
Yeah, and I went and watched. I'm sure you saw Drew Gilbert play for us a ways back. And now the world's kind of finding out who he is. I went and saw him play, just to see him in a big league uniform and was able to speak to a GM and we both talked. I think everyone's suffering the consequences all the way up to the big leagues where guys are super skilled, but there's less development, less coaching, less accountability and therefore less understanding of how to actually play the game to win. And it starts all the way trickle down effect, you know, Little League. I'm, I'm such a fan of. I'm not a father, but I sure love when the helmets are bigger than the kids. It's just funny as hell to see. But it isn't too much longer after that that it's time to have a walkout song and make sure you got the fanciest unis. And maybe it's like trades are being made, like, hey, this kid's no longer good enough. But we saw this kid that is. And so it starts, the process starts of a high school kid not really knowing how to win a game. Maybe a coach like your dad or my dad jumps him a little bit and it's like, holy cow. So now he's going to transfer high schools. We get the kid and I kind of already gave the portal story, so a little bit of a vicious, I don't want to call it a cycle because it's a ladder that's going up and it's maybe an underdeveloped ladder if I'm going to be critical.
- [26:11]
A
Yeah, no. And obviously your perspective. So the next level to that is give us your advice. And this from as a coach, just as someone who's lived this world, you see what 17, 18 year old kids look like entering the highest level. Every baseball kid in the country, if you ask them, would say, yes, I want to go play baseball at Tennessee. Right. Like you have your pick of the litter to some degree with, you know, know a handful of the other schools. But like, what are you seeing? Like, who are these kids? Are they playing too many games? Is it too showcase driven? Is it too highlight reel driven? Right. We all see, you mentioned before, we all see the home run on Instagram, but nobody saw you missed a bunt to sack a runner and your guy got thrown out of third. Like, we don't ever show the struggles, we only show the highlights. So like, is there a difference when you first started and what you were seeing at the high school ranks especially? How different is it to what you see today?
- [27:06]
B
Yeah, I think it is a little different. There's not as Much cohesiveness with the groups of guys that play together where you kind of form a bond and it truly is our team against your team and there's fewer tournaments where you're actually trying to win. The trend, it actually was really right about when I started in summer ball. The word exposure first started, got thrown around and I literally remember, like, not understanding what was being talked about. But, you know, we had a couple big leaguers on our team and they kind of did need to be seen, but they were so good. I know you had a good story on here, like, they'll find you. A guy was throwing in a barn or something and somebody located them. So it is different. You throw out so many different things. A blanket answer for a lot of this stuff is just, I think there's a lack of balance. I don't. Someone on one of your previous podcasts talk about, like, kids wearing gear. Like, at age 8, they now have all the gear is a common. And other players I've talked to complain about that. Well, how do you know that kid's not like the hardest worker on his team and isn't the guy who will run face first into a wall to catch a fly ball? I think there, there just needs to be a balance. And maybe step one is, let's say, a new neighborhood. None of these kids have played baseball. They just decide to start a team and they're. It's a 9U team. The parents and the kids need to get together. What are we competing at? Like, what are the things we're trying to win or get better at? Is it who has the best uniforms, how many social media clicks we can get? You know, are we trying to win? Like, like, what is that going to get you at nine? You could even advance to, like 13. You, you know, you're going to turn into the next Uncle Rico. For those that have seen Napoleon Dynamite, you know, is this really when we're trying to peek out? So, you know, one of my buddies in a athlete group text sent, There was a 9U team that had a signing day. And, you know, at first instinct on Twitter, it's like, hey, that's too much, blah, blah. But also, I'm not in that parent group, so I don't know what values are being shared before or after the game or during practice and things like that. So I think you can do some of the fancy stuff and you can post some things, but I don't think you want to get so skewed. Like I said, you know, on the Twitter thing or the instagram thing like, man, this kid only hits homers and doubles. Like maybe, you know, as a parent, maybe post something that the second baseman did even though your kid is the shortstop. I would, I would love to see at Lake Point. You've been there in Atlanta, there's two quads, so there's eight fields. How many parents are going around there and like after the game praising other kids, like if, and it's easier if you know, you're one of the holidays or something, but if your kid is one of the better players, you probably know it and he's probably already getting praise. So maybe do the left fielder, that catch you made, or you threw that ball to second and held that guy. I don't think we win that game without that. That would create such a better environment. So if anything, maybe there's one little piece of advice a non parent could throw out.
- [30:16]
A
No. And all this advice is so critical because then I am going to ask for another piece of advice. So like a question that we get from people all the time. But again, I'm applying other sport perspective and I'm trying to apply it to basketball, baseball, soccer. I don't have obviously the expertise of that pipeline of living my whole life like I do with football, which I have a little better understanding. But like I get this question a lot about football. So I'm going to ask you about baseball. They ask me, okay, how do we find the right coach for my 10 year old to play football? When I show up to practice, what should I be looking at? What tells me it's safe? What, what tells me the instruction is good, the messaging. And I tell them about, hey, make sure they teach it the right way to tackle, make sure they're teaching, you know, toughness, but not in the old school way where we're just going to bash our heads into each other. Accountability, not a lot of standing around, keep kids engaged, like all these things in the football world. So I'm going to ask you, you show up to a youth baseball practice, what are the first two or three things you're looking at for you to say? You know, what if I had a kid or if you were asking me should I put my kid in this environment, My answer would be yes.
- [31:21]
B
Yeah, Step one is be present. It's not youth. But a lot of the kids I coach, if they're not going to move on to pro ball, they want to coach and I just tell them like the first step to being a really good coach is just be present. And we probably had the same experience when we were younger, like, all the time involved. And also being present means being there physically, but also mentally being engaged. And then also is there an energy and a passion to it. A lot of these kids may fall out of love with the sport that they're playing for a variety of reasons, but at the very least, they should see an example of like, hey, this is. This guy's been at his job. It's recess now. You know, I've been at school all day with my friends, or I've done, you know, I had to do my chores, hopefully, or whatever. Now this is resource recess. It's time to enjoy this and have fun. And. And even when the negative things happen, do you spin it into a positive? So if Steve makes a mistake, it's like, Steve, you just did all your teammates a favor. You made that mistake, and now we can go over it, and now your buddies aren't going to make that mistake. Hopefully you don't mind us. You know, depending on how young the kid is, I can use a little different language, but hopefully you don't mind us using it as example. But now we can do it a different way, and it might help us win a game. And this is just practice, so you didn't really cost us anything. So are we spinning things into a positive? Because at the end of the day, if a young kid is in a group, and it might just be a math group, it might not be at a field. But if a young kid is engaging, especially nowadays and not sitting alone and not having people to talk to, he's engaging in a group, and he's challenging himself to do things, and he's failing, then we got good stuff going on for that kid. He's making progress in life. And, you know, I could go on to say, hey, make sure you present kids with only so many kids become big leaguers or Division 1 athletes. But, you know the syndrome every parent's gonna say? I call it the Charlie Sheen wives syndrome. Like, at what point, what do you marry Charlie Sheen and think you're gonna be the. The last one?
- [33:22]
A
You're gonna be the. You're the end of the. Of the cycle. What's up, guys? Do you want custom fanware like this cricket shirt for Charlotte Christian School? We've got premium apparel from your favorite brands. The best part about it is I don't have to just wear it to Charlot events. I can wear it to golf. I can wear it to lunch. It's turned into my uniform. Go right now over to youth.in Sign up for our newsletter that talks about our podcast for that week, our interview guests, all the breaking news across the landscape of youth sports. And you can win one piece of merch for your school by going to sign up today. And remember, it's not dot com, it's youth dot IN now back to our episode. It's so true, right? Like reasonable expectations. We talk about goal setting and having things, and we could debate whether that's productive or not. But like, we always tell our kids, all right, when we're playing 12U baseball, our number one goal was to not get you recruited by Tennessee. That is not what we want you to walk to your middle school coach next year as seventh graders on the big field for the first time. And when you show up to tryouts, that middle school coach goes, I want this kid on my team. He knows how to get in and out of the dugout. He knows how to do a double cut. He knows how to back up third base. If he's the pitcher on a double off the wall. Like, he knows how to do all the little things. He's a great teammate. You don't know if he struck out or if he hit the ball off the wall. Like, can we teach you all those things so when you show up to your middle school, you can have a good reason, you know, a good experience with your middle school team. And now that we're at 13, you and they are in middle school, hey, you're two years away from having to try out for the high school. And are you jv, are you varsity at what age and all that. So, like, there's always the preparation for the next step. I. What I see so much going on is it's a race to 12, right? It's at 12 years old. We need to decide which kids are varsity baseball players, which kids are collegiate baseball players, and which kids have no chance. And those kids get pushed to the side. And I look in there and I say, they haven't even stepped foot on the big field. They haven't hit puberty. They've never had a girlfriend. They've never drank a beer. And we're going to decide what kid, at 18 years old, Tony Vitello is going to come in and recruit to Tennessee. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
- [35:28]
B
Yeah, no, and you triggered a word because I'd kind of given this some thought because I appreciate you having me on and was a fan of yours. And I want to slide into the one comment so we don't end and I don't say it on behalf of all my buddies that are big sports fans, a lot of them watch way more TV and probably gamble and stuff. They think so highly of your work. I mean, obviously we're outstanding on the field, but I'm not so sure, even better in the booth. So kudos to you for that and. Yeah, you bet. And you trigger a word in my head. Sequence. Sequence has been lost and I should have included that in my little portal. Tangent is. Yeah. Development has been derailed in some areas because sequence is so out of whack and it does. It is such a super race. And part of that is just nature of the kids are thinking that too, because what is their world? It's TikTok. When you and I grew up, if you wanted to hear your favorite song, you gotta wait for somebody to call it in or you gotta wait for the record to come back around. Now Spotify, it's. Everything's instant gratification. It's fast, fast, fast. Go. And at some point, again, maybe an exercise for a family. Just talking off the cuff is okay. I can tell. My 11 year old's kind of into this deal. Have a sit down conversation, have perspective. He's a kid, but like, where's the Runway? You know? And maybe this kid's like, man, I just went to Omaha last year. I want to play college baseball for one of those teams. Okay, now we at least kind of have a general idea what the Runway is and kind of map that out. One of the best speeches I ever heard was a guy named Gary Ward, legendary college baseball coach. And he talked about, you always need to know, figure out where do you want to go. You know, whether it's with your swing or in the winter, you're just trying to develop, you know, you're trying to hit the weights in the winter, like where you're at A, where's B, where do you want to go? And then you press rewind on the vcr, which is what he said. Now, your son probably doesn't know what that is, but hit rewind on the vcr. Okay? And then start, start along those steps, you know, every day, if you will. So, yeah, lack of sequence has become frustrating because freshman year, it needs to be a learning experience. And some guys are blessed enough, they can start or be an all American and all those things, you know, better be careful what you ask for. If you're a freshman All American, guess what you got next year. A lot of pressure and people saying sophomore slump and things like that. So there's pros and cons. To everything. But I think a sequence is the highest percentage deal that you could have. And you had that in your career. I know you've, you've spoken on, at the very least, one thing you did as an athlete, you stayed on an incline. And that's one thing we're looking at when we're at Lake Point. You maybe don't want the guy that's fully developed or has the world figured out. You want a guy that's good now and you can have a, you have a vision. If he stays on this incline because he's a good worker and a good teammate, what can he really become when he's 21 playing for us?
- [38:23]
A
My kids like roll their eyes now because I say it to them all the time. Like I have two boys and a daughter. And so I say they're all, they're seventh and eighth grade, all three of them. And I always say to them, I said, guys, here's the ultimate goal. Can we get better forever? What increments, what year is better than the others? I don't know. How good will you end up being? We don't know. But all I know is if we get better forever at some incremental level, year after year after year after year, wherever you're supposed to make it, whatever level you're supposed to achieve, you will. And maybe that's high school varsity baseball and you're just a great senior on your team. Great. That was your max. Let's reach it. Maybe you're a low level and then from there, who knows what the next steps are. But man, just, that's all I knew. And you said, I've shared that with everyone who I've ever talked to. Like my greatest gift was not at any point in time. If you snapshotted my career at any point in time. I was never the best singular player on my team, let alone in my world. But I could get better forever. And guys that were ahead of me, eventually I'd catch them and pass them by. I didn't know how many. It took 10 years for me to make a Pro bowl and then I made three in a row. Like that was who I was. That was my life. That's everything. Embodied. Sequencing series of events Stop looking too far down road like everything you just described. I want you to like, I want you to say it to my kids because they're probably more willing to listen.
- [39:55]
B
Well, everybody else probably wants you to say it because my long winded answers could have been consolidated in exactly what you said is just getting better every Day is the answer. One of the best talks we ever had in our clubhouse was, Max Scherzer is the best athlete probably I've ever coached, or the most accomplished. Let's say that I don't need my tires slashed, but same way Max. And he'll get mad at me because he always thinks he's the best. But in high school, was not. But he became that in college. Freshman year, he only got 20 innings for us, but he became so dominant and the best prospect. A lot of people don't even know he played for the Diamondbacks because it wasn't that great. And then he gets with the Tigers. Verlander's technically the one, Strasberger technically the one. And now he's 41 years old. Discovering different ways the word that comes to mind is evolving. And in every sport, it's probably crucial, but I think more so in baseball because there's so many moving parts, and a pitcher like Kershaw might have to reinvent himself just a little bit as stuff goes down, things like that. But evolution or continuing to evolve in baseball is so important. So to me, I actually, it's kind of like one one. We've coached a couple kids. It's like, I want to be one one. Well, why not be two? Because then you get the same amount of money, the same, you know, leeway with the organization, but you don't have to deal with all that other crap. And, you know, a parallel to that, at least in my mind, is, man, what if you do have some stuff to work on, but you're. But you're in a good spot. That's a good thing. Because now you can kind of keep this train rolling and keep evolving. And if I was to come in and speak to your. To your kids, you know, or maybe this is something of a coach is struggling to get across the kids. I think they brought back the Rubik's Cube. That's kind of like what evolving is. You're always trying to line up those panels on the same side, and unfortunately for sports like golf or baseball, you're never going to have them all lined up. But I think that type of puzzle solving contributes to that evolution.
- [41:56]
A
That's awesome. And I want to end with this. I know you got a lot to do. You want to. You're going recruiting, you're going to the PBR stuff. So I'm going to end with this. I want just what you've accomplished at Tennessee from when you took the program over in 18 to the national title in 24 to you guys are at the creme de la creme, the highest level of, of Power 4, high level Division 1 baseball. Like from where you took it over coming from Arkansas as an assistant to now where you are as one of the most established programs in the country. Like what are you most proud of? Like what I know, not national titles, first round picks, like what have you built there that when you're going to look back on this years down, you're going to say, you know what, of everything we accomplished, I'm most proud of.
- [42:36]
B
What I think that we've established a level of team chemistry that exists among the coaches and amongst the kids. And then, you know, combining those two coaches with players that has created some bonds that'll last for a lifetime. And I think one thing that these kids lose sight of is you're going to be a person a lot longer than you are a player. So when you're a teammate inside the locker room, it's good for these kids to participate in these sports and face challenges because you're growing into a better person and that's what you're going to be longer in life. And you know, I know you're still coaching, let's say you weren't. You're still a teammate, you know, to your family members and you know to people you meet in the community and you're taking on this challenge here. So I think that's something important. And kind of the vibe we've created in there is huge. And hey, at the end of the day, if you can be Kobe or someone like that, that's legendary. Kudos to you. But third, kudos, I've probably used them all up, but that's awesome.
- [43:40]
A
We have unlimited kudos here.
- [43:42]
B
But in reality like in 100 years, is it gonna what's gonna matter? You know, and unfortunately this is a little dark, but all of us are gonna have a day where we're no longer around. You'd like some people to be at that gathering and what type of things are they going to say are important? And I think some people think it's so again, what are we competing for? It's so crucial to get this or that. When time moves on, is it really going to matter? And so I think what we got going on now in our locker room and at our stadium is a lot of bonds even with the fans that truly matter and the winds will come and go. You get your brains beat in, in our league, but that's what comes.
- [44:21]
A
How you guys looking this year? You feel pretty good about this year's.
- [44:23]
B
Squad, they're young, so they listen more. I like that vibe at the start of the, at the start of the season. But yet you're looking talented.
- [44:31]
A
Works, right? Young and talented. Yeah.
- [44:33]
B
Yeah. But can you stay on that incline? So you're looking for indicators as a coach, for sure. And, and one of the things I, I know we're, we're wrapping up, but one of the things I wanted to make sure I mentioned is we're looking for indicators too. And it's amazing. One of the best players I ever coached, he didn't get to go to his dream school because his father kind of scared off that dream school. Once I got to know the dad, he's one of the best human beings I've ever met. He just was a man of principle. And it was very loud, so it was up to interpretation. And I wish there was a magic formula for like, this is the type of parent you want to be, but it is something we're sizing up when we are at a field watching games or a kid's on a visit. And I don't think there's a, like I said, a perfect protocol, but I thought of two P's. What kind of pressure do you put on kids and what do you praise? And I think that would be a good self reflection or self analysis for parents if they got anything out of our conversation is when you're at the game, where's the pressure, where the praise is. And so if you're going absolutely ballistic on the umpire because Your kid is now 01 and the games on the line, you're kind of acting like there's so much pressure to win this game. It's the most important thing in the world. And I think we all know, truly know it's not. And then again, kind of that praise thing at the end is, you know, watch your kid in the, you know, dugout and things like that. And like instead of saying you had two doubles and Georgia Tech's coach or Florida State's coach was watching you play, hey, I kind of noticed when coach pulled you aside, I appreciate you had eye contact with them or, you know, praise the fact, man, no hits today, but you ran your 90 times or your times to first, you ran hard the whole time. So I was hoping to contribute something. I didn't want to come up with a catchphrase, but it kind of stuck out as two P's where what kind of pressure are you applying? And it should be, in my opinion, to be a good worker and a good teammate, but it's hard not to press for results and then what are you praising? And a lot of people want to praise the outcomes or the attention that they get instead of things that are going to serve you longer in life. Like you learned as far as work ethic and all the things that you know go under the umbrella of being a good teammate.
- [46:46]
A
And I think that's the perfect way to end it. That's the best I've ever heard someone put it. Because if I've learned one thing from watching my kids play, baseball specifically football is the ultimate outcome based game. Doesn't matter how it happened. Did you catch it, did you score, did you get the first down, did you get yes or no? If you didn't, there's no like, hey, at least you tried hard. Baseball, at least in my understanding through the young level, like there is an element of like, did you do everything in your power and you lined out to the second baseman, you're 0 for 1. And then the next kid gets up and swinging bunt over the top of a pulse, he pulls the ball and it dribbles down to third baseline, he beats it out and he's one for one. And your vision of the two game, of the two players is drastically different if you just look at the box score, right? So like the result could really mislead you. And are you doing everything the right way? Did you do all of your stuff Monday through Friday and you went 0 for 3. That's okay. Did you go, did you do nothing all week and then you went 0 for 3. 2 very different. Oh, for threes. That's probably the biggest thing that I've learned through being around baseball. And the way you just focus framed it is how I'm going to carry forward with my own kids and my team the best that I can. Because that's the best I've ever heard someone put it.
- [48:05]
B
I appreciate that, man. And yeah, football is, I don't know how you guys did it. Like the finality of just one game. I mean we just dealt with it on our campus. There's so much pressure and it's only one time. We have the benefit of more reps. And so it changes, you know, how that process and outcome thing is weighed. The one thing I do think both sports and all sports have in common is you can really serve yourself well as a coach or a player if you're just trying to have success a high percentage of the time. So if you're at bats or quality, then you'll end up with a batting average. That's, that's also quality. But if you're up and down big time emotionally and with the quality or type of a bats you put together, the percentages are not going to go very well in your favor. So you get a heartbreaking loss on a football field. Yeah, unfortunately, it could cost you going to a playoff or something like that. But if you put that much pressure going into the game, like if we lose this game, we have got no chance. It ain't going to work out very well. But if you're doing anything that falls under the line of be the casino, put the percentages in your favor with your approach. And for a kid like me, that was a bottom of the depth chart guy. At least if you're, you know, doing the right things a high percentage of the time as an athlete, then it'll maybe put you in a better position when your time is done with an athlete because it, it happens for, for all of us, whether we like it or not.
- [49:28]
A
Coach, I could, I could talk to you for four hours. I'm going to try to get down there and watch you guys be around your program, like just watching you from afar. The way you communicate, the way you command, the way you, you know, just invigorate your program. I love everything about what you stand for. When you agreed to come on here, I just took a shot in the dark and threw it out there. So for you to agree to coming on here, to talk to our listeners, our fans and me, who I'm learning along with all of our listeners through this journey as a dad and as a youth sports coach. So I can't tell you what your perspective, your experience, everything you brought, man, I can't thank you enough, coach. And I hope, I hope Miami treats you well. Don't take all the good Miami kids. Couple of them go to Miami, please.
- [50:12]
B
Hey, they're from all over the country and those guys have always done well and are continuing to do well. But no, I appreciate it. Honored to come on. And I'm not in the category of the people that you've had on, but I appreciate it. Maybe something's in there more than anything. You and others, I dig the just trying to help kids. The compound interest that occurs when you're working with young kids goes on and on and on because obviously those young kids start doing things. And I think you and I are blessed that we both had two fathers that were champions regardless of how many rings they have. And at the very least, some people are benefiting a little bit from that.
- [50:49]
A
Well, well, said we're going to end there. And I know our listeners loved it. So I can't thank you enough, coach. Good luck this year. We'll be pulling for you guys and appreciate you joining us on you think.
- [50:59]
B
You bet. Thank you.
- [51:00]
A
We'll catch you again next week right here on youthink.