← Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
ESPN's Chiney Ogwumike on What Parents Get Wrong About Youth Hoops
00:46:32
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- [00:00]
A
What's up everybody? And welcome back to Youth Inc. With Greg Olson. I'm Shelby Baumgartner, your digital host and we have a great one lined up for you today. Coming up a little later, Greg Olson catches up with WNBA star Cheney Ogumike, a conversation that you might want to stick around for. But first, we're going to open up this show with a little fun game of this or that Youth Sports edition. And before we wrap up, Greg pulled from the hat and answered some of your listeners questions. So make sure to stay all the way through. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to this YouTube channel and follow wherever you get you think content. All right, let's get into this amazing episode.
- [00:38]
B
Youth sports in America are at a crossroads and I'm here to help lead the conversation forward. I'm Greg Olson. Each week we're sitting down with top athletes, coaches and more to talk about what's working, what's broken and what's next. Welcome to youthink.
- [00:54]
A
How old should a kid be when they get private training? Over 12 or under 12?
- [00:59]
B
I answered this question last week and, and I actually think it, it varies. I think there are some kids that are 9 and 10 that are very emotionally and physically ready to get more like independent privatized training and really make a lot of use of it. I think there's kids that are 15 that can't make use of it. So I, I do think there is a very by the child if your son or daughter is, is physically, mentally and emotionally mature and, and really craves this knowledge and really wants to dive into improvement if they can handle it. I don't necessarily think there has to be an age attached to it.
- [01:32]
A
How old should a kid be when they lift weights? Seriously over 13 or under 13?
- [01:37]
B
I think you can lift weights under 13 if done right. I think there's all sorts of knowledge and studies now that understand the ability to control your body, range of motion, balance, coordination. Do I think kids need to be loading up dead deadlift bars and squat bars and putting a ton of load on a young developing spine and back and, and joints? No. So the seriously I guess would be my, the quote I would have to define like underage, being in a weight room, understanding how to move around the weight room, understanding how to move your body, how to work together as a group. I think that can come at all. Ages over 13 is when I would say, okay, now we start applying some load, we start applying some resistance of significant capacity because every time you load your body it's a young developing body, you are stressing and compressing those joints and whatnot. So if done right, I don't think there's an age requirement, but I just think you have to be very careful. At what point of the developmental curve do you introduce different elements of quote unquote, lifting weights?
- [02:41]
A
Perfect. How old should a kid be when they join a travel team? Over 10 or under 10?
- [02:46]
B
Over 10. And I'm a hypocrite because I have boys that played under 10, you know, years back. But again, I always say I would do things a lot differently now. Rule of thumb, again, none of this is universal, but I would say rule of thumb over 10 seems to make sense. Based on what I know and what I've gone through with my own kids. That makes sense to me.
- [03:06]
A
Last one, I think, how old should a kid be when they attend ID camps? Over 13 or under 13?
- [03:12]
B
Yeah, over 14 for sure. I don't. There is no need. I mean we're talking 14 year old kids aren't even in high school yet. So I'll be honest. Like colleges, scouts, to go to a camp before you've hit puberty, to go to a camp before you physically matured. It just doesn't make a ton of sense. You know, we joke on here, it's not a race to 12. I would argue it's not even a race to 14. So I would say over you start becoming a sophomore, junior in high school. You know, you're 15, 16, your body is pretty much. We have a good sense of what you're going to look like, what you're going to feel like, what you're. Where you're at mentally. Yeah. Over. I can't see a scenario where I need to be 12 and 13 years old going to ID camps. Cheney, I can't thank you enough for joining us. Like obviously a big fan. See what you do on tv. One thing we do have in common, obviously your storied professional and collegiate career was a little more accomplished than mine. Former number one overall pick, both you and your sister neca. We're going to dive into all of that. Your upbringing, your world of viewed sports. But I started venturing into the world of media before my playing days were over, as did you obviously. Espn, a very accomplished career. I am always curious other athletes who have made that transition so successfully. Like I view the game very differently now than I did when I was a player. I wish I knew then what I know now. Like talk about your transition. Like how do you view women's basketball, the state of the league, the sport of the sport, the state of the sport globally, maybe compared to when you were just living and breathing it as a player.
- [04:47]
C
First of all, high five to us, virtually, yes, here for it. Because it was a grind. And that's why, honestly, when I got the opportunity, hey, would you like to. To chat with Greg? I was like, absolutely. Because we kind of have this unspoken, written, unwritten language of the different hustle to try to make it and also see how far the platform of sports can really take you. Now, my transition was a little interesting. So I was drafted, as you mentioned, number one to the Connecticut sun. And I had an amazing first season in the wnba. I was rookie of the year. I was an all star. But you know how it is. Women's basketball, the grind never stops. So back then, you're gonna laugh at this, Greg. Okay, I'm pretty sure that my rookie salary is probably like $50,000 pre tax.
- [05:31]
B
I'm not laughing. I'm not laughing. I respect it. I respect it.
- [05:35]
C
We can laugh now because the lady's pre taxing half a million dollars.
- [05:38]
B
Okay, Asia Wilson. What did Asia Wilson. Didn't she just get 5 million?
- [05:43]
C
Three years. 5 million. Hey, it's been like 10 years in a decade. Look at us. Exponential. But we were playing as, you know, for the love of the game, okay? And our money came elsewhere, primarily overseas. And so what had happened was, you know, we are all used to playing overseas. We would make our six figures and seven figures overseas. I was in Italy, I got injured, and when I got injured, I had a whole nother year to rehab. And I chose to rehab half of the time in Connecticut in my home market, because I was a franchise player, I wanted to be around the team. And also those resources are free. And so when I was in Connecticut, the interesting thing is on my draft day, the day after, so the day after I got drafted, we did what was. And I wonder if you did it an ESPN car wash. Did you ever do the car wash?
- [06:29]
B
I did a car wash at ESPN for sure.
- [06:30]
C
For those who don't know, a car wash at ESPN was like back when we had a little bit more seasoning, a little bit more spice. We had some celebrities coming through. You basically would start on what would now be called get up all the way through the nighttime 6pm Sports Center. And, you know, an artist or an entertainer, they go on all the shows as a special guest. And so after I got drafted, the next day, I was ESPN's special guest. And so I talk to a lot of people And I always tell people, you never know that you're always auditioning, like always auditioning, no matter who you meet, first impressions. And so people sort of liked my personality. And so when I was injured the year after my rookie year in the W, ESPN was like, hey, you're here. We see you're rehabbing. Why don't you just come back to espn, hop on some shows, fill in on first take, fill in on his and hers at the time. And so I did that and that built the reputation and the relationship within espn. And I was still playing but I was like, I kind of like this, this is kind of fun. Maybe this could be a career path. And so years later, you know, it turned it from part time working for SportsCenter International to full time as an NBA analyst and now on a variety of shows. So that was my transition. But I always tell people, you know, even through adversity, you can still find opportunity if you have the right mindset through positivity.
- [07:47]
B
Well, it's so funny. Again, our world's unbeknownst to us both, maybe so similar. In 2017, I had missed a big chunk of my season. I had broke my and the bye week of that year I got asked by Fox if I wanted to come join at the time their BE crew, Charles Davis and Kevin Burkhart. If I wanted to come join them, it'd be a three man crew and call one of the games on my bi week. So I wasn't playing, the team was off but, but yeah, I was out injured. So I had the opportunity to prepare for a couple of weeks while I was rehabbing, did it on the bi week. Then they asked me, they liked it. So I got to come back and do it in 2019. And then when I retired after 2020, I've worked with them full time since. So very similar. But it's a great lesson as you said, like as hard as it was being injured, of course for you, you're a franchise player on top of the world. But look at the opportunity in the life you've been able to carve out, which I'm sure if we would have had you on 10 years ago. And I said, hey, by the way, you're going to probably walk away from basketball earlier than you think because you're going to be on tv. You would have been like, you're out of your mind.
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C
Ball is life. What are you talking about? Like that's it. But. But not us being twins. I'm very happy for that.
- [08:56]
B
Of course I want to talk more about the wn, I've. I've. I've probably gotten more into the W. A just as a fan. I have a young daughter, I was telling you offline, that's gotten into basketball. She really enjoys it. She plays both for her school. She plays a little bit of club outside. So on weekday nights, we put it on. We love watching the college, you know, the women's college tournament, you know, WNBA games, especially when they're like the marquee players and you can study and watch the wnba. You described that you got drafted to just this, just this week, new contracts, talked about Asia, the money, the expansion, the new. Just give us a sense, like, where is the league? Where is it going? There's expansion teams popping up now in new cities. Like, this is a pretty exciting time for women's basketball, both collegiately and, of course, professionally.
- [09:44]
C
This is a perfect time for everyone to become a fan of women's basketball. I'm glad we've brought you into the
- [09:49]
B
fold and shout out to your daughters. I mean, I love it.
- [09:52]
C
It's a great time. Because now, you know, when I was your daughter's age or, you know, in that range, I did not know I could watch, you know, Amaya Moore or Candace Parker or Lisa Leslie or a Cheryl Supes and just turn on ESPN and it'd be there. Those opportunities were not guaranteed. And so the game has changed. There's so much more accessibility. You know, young girls can just go on TikTok and follow their favorite players and, like, if you can see it, you can be it. Now, from where we started, the word that came to mind was janky. It was janky, not the players. It was the business. And I think it was also the perception because there was this huge disconnect, right? Because these are the best women's athletes in the world. They're playing for the love of the game. They are physical and competitive and dominant, and that's the league. This is the best league in the world. This is what we dream of. But there was a disconnect because we did not have the investment, or I don't think we had the outside belief that this moment right now we're existing in could be possible. We knew what we were. But the rest of the world, there had to be a learning curve for them to understand, like, oh, I can watch this game, follow it, Follow these players as young stars. You can follow Caitlin Clark at Iowa, Angel Reese at her stops. And then, of course, going to LSU. You can follow Juju Watkins at USC. You can follow Paige Beckers at UConn, you can follow these women because that's what makes our game different. That typically we stay at least three years, we get our degrees, you build a fan base, and then you go pro. And now the business has caught up to really leverage these moments. And I do believe there's a couple of things that have added to the factor. It's one, these women are now taking control of their narratives. Over the last maybe 10 years, social media, we've been able to market ourselves as who we are, fierce competitors, and that has helped change the perception. And then the league finally matched that energy because a long time people were trying to make us Sunday school church girls, or obviously, we're very family friendly. But let me tell you, on the court, I've heard some curse words from certain people. Diana Taurasi or I've been elbowed by Brittney Griner. Like, we are fierce competitors. And I think people started embracing that. That's what women could be. So it started with us owning our narrative and then seeing us for who we are. And then lastly, the investment started to trickle in. The eyeballs were there. The last five or so years have been an explosion. And so for what started off as some, like, you know, the WNBA losing a little bit of its luster the last two decades now, I tell my older sister, I can't believe that you practice in a facility that was built for just the WNBA team or sis, you out here flying in PJs. We never thought, oh, that's private jets. I don't know how we call them. Forget. We never thought that we would.
- [12:33]
B
You went from janky to fancy.
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C
We went from janky to fancy in a blink of an eye. And we're really grateful. Really grateful. We're excited and like, finally, you know, the CBA reflects where these women's worth truly is. And I feel like we're just going to continue growing.
- [12:47]
B
I mean, there's so many storylines around just women's basketball in general. Some of them overlap between. Obviously, we're just coming off, you know, ucla and the story around so many of them with Lauren Pitts and Gabriela Jacques and the South Carolinas. I mean, that obviously was a huge story when South Carolina beat UConn. And yeah, you talked a lot. I'm sure you talked a lot about that. We're going to keep moving. But, like, these are traditional powers. We know who all these coaches. The coaches are stars. The players are stars. I think it's really interesting what you said that in the women's game and more so obviously very contrasting to the men's college basketball game. You do stay. You do. We do get to watch these superstar women at women athletes play year after year and they have a sweet 16 appearance in year one. Well, hey, next year let's see if they can make it to the Elite Eight or the Final Four. So there's a little bit more of like a long standing narrative which I think is super helpful for like just the casual fan to latch onto. I also think there's a fascinating element going on about like the expansion of the international women's game. Like we saw it in the draft. So like talk a little bit about that. We know women's basketball is exploding domestically in America. How much does that? And also just the expansion internationally, just continue to elevate it, especially at the professional level.
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C
First of all, I want to give you your flowers because you are all the way tapped in with women's basketball.
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B
I'm watching.
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C
These are all amazing points. But for you to understand the power of the international, that to me is like PhD level understanding of women's basketball. My sister, as you know, is president of the Players association. And a big part of the fight was making sure that we had more roster spots for WNBA players. Right before when there were 12 teams, it was only 12 spots. And let's say two or three players on your team is injured, you're playing in the playoffs with nine or potentially eight, and that's really difficult on top of not having developmental roster spots. Right? That was all changed with this new CBA. There are more teams now. We had 13 last year, 15 this year, and I think it'll be 18 by 2028, which is phenomenal. But when it comes with expansion, I think it's also cool because now it's a little bit more inclusion because the league was so competitive and a lot of the top players are domestic here in the US but now we enough room to attract all global international talent. And it's cool because a lot of the expansion teams, like for example, we have Toronto and they want to sort of celebrate the international component of joining the wnba. And also Golden State, the Valkyries, they took an international approach as well. And it just shows you not only domestic, but also overseas, everyone is more included in this most competitive league. And lastly, I'll say this, with expansion, I think it's the perfect example of why the WNBA is trending upward. The fees I think for Golden State were around like 250,000 doll, $50 million to buy in to get into the WNBA. And have a team, the one for Houston, shout out to Houston relocating. Right. Like the precedent is now 300 million. That's the conversation around adding these other teams. And so it's just really great on both ends. The investment, the money, but also now the opportunity for everyone.
- [15:51]
B
Is the international influx in women's basketball, is it also happening in college? More like. I know when you look around, I read this interesting article about the men's game with NIL and the ab. A lot of international players that wouldn't have come to America until it was time to be a professional because they could earn professionally in their home country. They're now coming to play for Michigan and North Carolina, Duke because there is opportunities to earn. So, like, are we seeing that in the women's game or has it always been an international college game?
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C
A thousand percent NIL has changed the perspective, in my opinion, for internationals to be more included in college. And I think a good example of this is a player out of South Carolina who you probably saw Medina Okot, I think the highest Kenyan to be drafted. I think maybe there have been other Kenyan women drafted, but she, by far in the first round is the highest ever selected. But like the fact that this pathway. She started playing basketball at the age of 17. 17. I don't know how she's shooting threes as a big. Already I could. Like, it took me probably my whole life. I started at 10 and I barely was able to knock down threes by the time I was done. And she started playing basketball at 17. I also think because international players 10 tend to have a different value system in some ways. Not saying that domestically we don't value ourselves. It just is that we kind of have the middle school, high school and now college Runway where we build our marketability. Whereas international players may be a little bit more unknown from a name perspective, so that they see the opportunity of coming to a university and getting a diploma more so than they see it being dollars and cents.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And so now it's like, okay, I can go and recruit an international player. And it might be a little bit more affordable because they don't have the overtimes and the Nike circuit and the Adidas circuit getting paid. The price has gone up on domestic players. And I think international's value system is a little bit different because of their marketability being different. And so a lot of college coaches saying, I want internationals because I can afford more. And also we know they'll work hard and they're here for the long term because this is now truly their Home.
- [18:05]
B
That's really fascinating. Again, all of this is changing so rapidly, and I just find the whole landscape really interesting. I do want to transition a little bit more personally. You brought up your sister neca, the women, you know, WNBA Players association and her involvement in this new CBA and all this. Both of you are number one overall draft picks. So, again, forgive me for not doing, I guess, better research. I'm assuming the only sisters to be number one overall picks.
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C
Correct? The only other. Wait, you know who. The only other siblings that have done it in major sports, Right.
- [18:36]
B
Oh, it's not in football. Eli and Peyton Manning.
- [18:41]
C
There you go.
- [18:42]
B
Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. Eli. Yeah. Eli and Peyton Manning. I probably should have known that, but just remarkable and incredible. So I do want to dive into, like, your early childhood, like, give us a sense, like, how do you have two. It's one thing to have two professionals in the same house. How do you raise 2 number 1 overall draft picks in the same sport in the same house? Like, give our listeners like, what is that blueprint?
- [19:06]
C
It's so funny. So I'm here recording. Today is my mom's 60th birthday. Perfect. And first of all, I didn't tell you it was 60. We're calling it Diamond Birthday, but I'm telling everybody it's 60 because she looks good. Okay. But everyone asked my mom, like, hey, write a book about how you're able to do it. And the first thing that comes to mind and to her mind is oftentimes just raising a team in first place. Because as sisters, we were always taught to take care of one another, but also as sisters, we were taught to be the best that we could be. And I think that first lesson of. And I always translate it to now the professional world of, like, there's so much more power in being collaborative instead of competitive as women with one another. And I say that because NECA was destined to be a great athlete. Mind you, we didn't know that basketball was what we were gonna start off doing, but once she started playing, it was just natural. Her athletic ability, her touch, shooting the ball, her knack for the game. And so she was, like, on this trajectory to be, you know. Well, she was a high school All American, an all American at college, and then became a number one pick. I would not have got there without my sister's mentorship, without her support. She's very type A and I'm very type B. And so for her to be able to empower me to learn how to be great alongside her, that, to me Was like, that's how you win in a home, by treating everyone like teammates and working together and being invested in one other's success. Now, the real is that growing up, four girls in one house in Cypress, Texas. Nigerian. I'm not sure you know Nigerians because you play football. So Nigerian culture is very much doctor, lawyer, engineer. Education is so important. We were all making great grades, but at the end, like, we'd be done with our homework at 3:34. And so that means we were just having fun in the house. And my mom's like, we need to put. She told my dad, we need to put them into something that tires them out. Okay. And so in our neighborhood, you will never guess the. I'm going to give you three tries. You will never guess the first sport we played. Three guesses.
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B
All right, so you're living in Texas. The fact that you said I would never guess, it's not a traditional. It's not soccer. It's not. You're in Texas. Are you guys playing, like, flag football?
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C
No.
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B
I could see you guys playing and being unbelievable. Flag football. That's what I'm getting. Are you playing like, lacrosse? Are you playing golf? Tennis. Tennis.
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C
Good try, Good try. Gymnastics.
- [21:28]
B
Gymnastics.
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C
Gymnastics. So that she plays.
- [21:31]
B
I should have known that.
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C
Actually, the same gym that trained Simone Biles, because she's from Houston.
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B
Good start.
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C
Clearly we have differences in height, right? So gymnastics was very short lived. One of my mom's co workers came to see us and she was like, why do you have your girls in gymnastics? They are too tall for that. I always joke and tell people on the uneven bars. You know the uneven bars in gymnastics course.
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B
I would never make you just bang your foot into it.
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C
My, my. Yeah, my legs were too long. Then my butt would hit the ground and I never have the traction to go over. So I never made it. And so I was like, mom, thank you. Listen to her.
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B
We're going to have to get. Can we get this girl on the on the on the floor routine? Can we?
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A
Right.
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C
Even though, like, you won't flip enough. You're too tall. Like, we need tiny people that can flip a hundred times.
- [22:12]
B
True.
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C
It's all good.
- [22:14]
B
But we had Dominique Dawes. Last week's episode was Dominique Dawes, and she gave us. So I should have had gymnastics on my brain. That's a missed bite. I overthought it.
- [22:22]
C
It's okay. It's all good. You did overthink it. I gave you too many hints. Anyways, so we went to basketball. We fell into basketball. And I always tell people we fell in love with it. Now we were not good. When we started, we walked into the gym. Neca was 11, I was 10. The girls in there were dribbling with two balls. They had the coolest Nike and Adidas on. And we had never, ever played basketball before. I tell people Neca's first shot did not just go over the backboard. It went over the scoreboard, over the backboard. My sis was ripped for an 11 year old, you know, to be able to get that thing up there. But I was so embarrassed because I'm like, oh, these girls know what they're doing. So I give a lot of credit to my older sister. She stuck through that whole first practice getting embarrassed, getting roasted by her teammates. And I went to the bathroom and hid the whole time. And so, like, you know, my parents came and picked us up. I was like, oh, I was there the whole time. And I said, I just don't want to do this. And Neca stuck with it. And I go back to that whole collaboration idea, because that whole first year that Neca played, we have this beautiful long driveway in Houston, Texas. And Neca, after every practice would come home and she's like, cheney, this is how you dribble. This is how you cross over. This is how you form shoot. And we used to play. My little sisters then were like six and four and we used to play three on one against her just for fun. And that's how I learned the game. And so a year later, I felt like I had enough skills to play. And then I was great because Neca learned so quickly. There's so many other side stories, but that's how we got into basketball, by her teaching me and also sharing that joy with and not being threatened to like, oh, this is my thing. She's like, no, no, no. This can be our thing.
- [23:56]
B
There's so much value. We've actually talked to a lot of our guests. Like the younger sibling kind of phenomenon. Younger sisters, younger brothers, they all kind of tend to figure it out. The ability to chase the older brother or sister. And there's an interesting phenomenon about. I'm the second. I have an. I have an older brother and a younger brother who's 10 years. You also number two. Okay, so I'm number two. So I know the world of being the younger brother. He was the quarterback, so I get what you're. We have a lot. Yeah, please.
- [24:26]
C
This is how Neca really became great. So Neca was not great at first, like, coordination wise. She was a Quick study. So we'd go to these AAU games in her second year, probably. She's playing in competitive au and my dad is like, how do we get her to just rebound the ball and understand that you need to get as many as you can? That's something we can control. So he told NECA in front of us four girls, right? All right, Neca, every rebound you get, I'm gonna give you a dollar. And as little kids, we're like, oh, my gosh, we about to be rich. So every game, Neca would go and she'd get like eight rebounds. She'd get $8. And we'd go to the vending machine, get candy, get sodas, and we'd be so hyped. And so we were cheering so hard. And eventually, maybe after like five or so games, my dad stopped giving money. But it set like this competitive mindset where her coaches would say, like, okay, you got 10, get 15. Okay, you got 15, go get 20. And then that's sort of what unleashed the beast. But, like, it was imagine a 4 year old, a 6 year old, and a 10 year old in the stands going nuts because NECA caught a ball. Like, because we knew we wanted Skittles. That was it.
- [25:24]
B
That was like your first interaction with nil. You were being paid at the young age. Talk about your parents. Like, you mentioned that education was obviously a huge priority. I mean, you went to Stanford. Nothing left really to be said there. Give us an idea of, like, their parenting style. We talk about. We talk to parents and coaches all over the country. It's something I struggle with myself. Like, were they pushing you guys? Were they letting you drive the ship? Was it a blend? Like, what was their parenting style? Were they coaching your teams? Like, give us a sense of their role.
- [25:57]
C
So my dad, we still to this day call him Playoff Pops. Like, we call him Papa D, Papa, Daddy. But, like, so everyone around us in the basketball call him hey, Papa D, you know, or Playoff P. His name is Peter because he never missed a big game. Now my dad runs an international company, and so oftentimes he. But if we had a high school state championship, an AAU championship, we're playing, you know, who is a unc. I'm playing UNC my senior year at home. You know, like, he never missed it. He will fly in from anywhere. He would never miss it. You know, obviously when he's home with my mom, they would show up, tag team. But, like, Playoff Pops was always there.
- [26:34]
B
And also, that might be the best parent nickname I've Ever heard Playoff Pops?
- [26:38]
C
That's it. We have it, like, as hashtags on our photos every time we win a game.
- [26:42]
B
That's so good.
- [26:43]
C
He'd fly, you know, from work in Nigeria to Russia to watch NECA compete in the Russian championship. Like, playoff Pops is real. And so his style was very much. He'd just be there. He doesn't like to talk to people. He's too locked in on the game. He'll sit probably like third row in the stands, in the bleachers by himself, just locked in on the game. He never says anything, but if it gets physical, he'd be like. He'd yell to us, like, time to turn it up. Like, don't let them push you around. That's the only time. And we have a code word for that. I'll keep it. I'll gatekeep that. But he would just say those code words and. But for. What I really appreciated now is, like, I never felt pressure from him, and I just knew that no matter how the game was going, I could turn and look, and my dad was gonna be there, and I was like, I'm gonna be okay. Like, he's gonna support me now. My mom. While my dad is sitting there, my mom is pacing the arenas. My mom was one of those superstitious ones, very woman of God, but she was very superstitious that, oh, look, when I got up to get a bottle of water, they went on a run. So I need to stay outside the gym and I'm gonna. So we always knew that my mom would come back with the best snacks because she became friends with everyone that worked in the arenas. And she got her steps, like, her 20,000 steps. She was very nervous about the health aspect. Like, oh, these girls are double teaming my daughters and physical. And so she really struggles watching the games, but if it's important, she'll be locked in and she'll be ready to run on the court and fight. But typically she's in the arena. But I guess the big part, like, the biggest of my parents is they never put pressure on us. They always were there. And no matter how well I played or how poorly I played, they just were the same. Like, hey, good job, that's awesome. Or, don't worry, you'll get it next time. And I definitely think that, like, that's the approach parents should have. Like, I'm here to help you. If you need help learning this or a rebounder or someone to help pass with, great. But, like, you know, there's a balance to letting us Fail on our own, but also knowing that we can fail because we have y'. All.
- [28:42]
B
That's so true. Right? And so many parents these days don't want their kids to fail.
- [28:46]
C
Yeah.
- [28:46]
B
They're setting themselves up. Failure is coming. It's just a matter of when. But I. I always joke I'd rather my kids fail at 10 years old and come home crying in the car and sit on the couch and have Cocoa Puffs for dinner and go to bed. If failure comes at 20 years old, 18 years old, it's a. It's just a different world. You're in a different place. So I think that's such a great message. Stakes get higher the older you get.
- [29:08]
C
You.
- [29:09]
B
You mentioned games. I want to transition to a little bit of a. Kind of a compare and contrast. You're talking about growing up playing AAU ball and you and your sister, this. How similar? Different. I'm curious what you see now at the youth level. Like, you're out there. I know you know the game. You know it at the grassroots level. I see it here, just in our little, you know, city of Charlotte, North Carolina, on any given weekend. These gyms are packed and there's just as many girls games as there are boys games. And it is intense. They're 8 years old to 18 years old, and it's high stakes competitive. What are you seeing? The good, the bad? Like, what is the path of a young girl in today's world that has aspirations of maybe being a college basketball player? Like, what does her journey look like today?
- [29:55]
C
Let me start with some of the challenges. I think, I think there's more pressure on those young girls now because of social media and so many different things coming into play. Um, just those di da dynamics make it feel more pressurized. Like, oh, I have to be great at this age. I'm like, no, I wasn't good until I was 14, 15, 16. But now I do believe the standards that social media and just even nil now that people can get paid in high school, it just makes it hard to really enjoy the process for young people. I think that's the biggest challenge. I do love now flipping it to the good. I do love that, like you said, there's more equity. Girls tournaments can draw just as much as boys tournaments. Girls are stars just as much as boys are stars. And also the coolest part about the growth and development of youth sports is just that nowadays. Back when I played, it was not like you had all the resources available to learn. The way I learned basketball was through three men who were phenomenal. Just neighborhood type of guys that just loved basketball, had great principles and believed in just building a team the right way. I wish I could watch, you know, these stars that are playing right now in the wnba, the Asia Wilsons or the Brianna Stewarts or the Sabrina Ionescu's or, you know, like, I wish I could have seen those people in real time to model my game. But, you know, now these young women have that visibility. And to me, that's the coolest thing, because I'm like, looking at these young women coming into college, I'm like, dang, y' all have this, y' all have that. You're hitting step backs. Like a step back was a travel when I played, but now it's a normal part of the game. And so there are goods and there are bads. But I just, I do hope that people return to this aspect of, like, team sports is what, like, coaches are not looking to see if you can drop 20 every night. They're looking to see if you are a winning player and that you're good with teammates and that it's a benefit that you can drop 20, but you can help elevate those around you. And I think sometimes with the nature of how things are, are, but that can get lost in the sauce. And I hope people get back to the true core nature of what makes hoops great.
- [32:10]
B
So stay on that point. So Don Staley walks into the gym, or Gino Ariema, like any of these iconic women's college basketball coaches, they walk into a gym in an AAU tournament in whatever city in the country, what are they looking for? Like, in your Converse, you know all these people, you know that world intimately. Like, everyone thinks they're looking for the girl scoring 20. They're looking for the girl that's dominating the ball. What are they really looking for? Like, give us a sense, if someone out there that has a teenage daughter, a high school daughter who's good, what should be the style in which they're being coached and taught at home to display to maybe get that opportunity to go play at the college level?
- [32:48]
C
Fantastic question. Because I think a lot of people, there are a lot of misconceptions on what these top coaches want? Like Gino, as you mentioned, Don, or even now, Corey close in the mix at the top of the mountain. There are two things. What makes people a little cautious and like, oh, I don't know if they can make it is because they're, of course looking for sheer talent, raw talent, right? A physical phenomenon, a super skilled Player. But what people don't realize is that they're also looking for specialists. And anyone can be a specialist. Can you be the best person that can playmake? Can you be the best person that can pass? Can you be the most versatile defender? You know, you can't have five people that are super raw, talented. You need people that are stars in their roles. Steph Curry was a perfect example of it. I think I'm taller than Steph Curry. I don't want to versus bubble, but like I'm six three. He's six three, right? I think they list him at six four. But you know, in basketball we lie with a little 2 inches. They listed me as 6 4.
- [33:51]
B
All sports lie. I mean baseball, we just found out recently how tall baseball guys really are. There was a lot of lying going on when they now the automated batting zone, you know, so all athletes. All athletes lie. We'll give them that.
- [34:04]
C
Thank you for now. I know that it's not just us. I thought it was us. Okay, good. Steph, you know, made his specialist training be obviously three point shooting, but also cardio. That man runs more than anybody else in one giving game. And that to me is something that anybody can be. Gabriela Hawkez of UCLA is a perfect example of it. She plays harder than anybody else. She makes hustle, but also she can knock down an open shot. She can get the right pass. Like, I think she was up there. Maybe she led them in rebounding. She had 21 points in the national championship. But if you saw her, you'd be like, oh, that's just another woman, you know, on the street because she's maybe 6 foot 5, 11, 6 foot, like not the physically gifted person that people think that Gino and Dawn would look for. And to me, that is where a lot of people have opportunities. Find. I always tell people, find out what makes you you, and do it better than anybody else. For me, me, I was excellent running down the floor. I was athletic, I was a track star, but also I had a knack for knowing where the ball was. I was an elite offensive rebounder. If a game was going sideways, I couldn't score. I knew I'd at least get five offensive rebounds and that's 10 points for my team. And that's what my coach came and said. She's going to work hard, she's going to run the floor hard, but when all else fails, she will find a way on the offensive boards. So that to me is like the recipe for success. If you're trying to get to A big school, you either are God blessed or you have made yourself a specialist. And coaches will love to find stars in their roles.
- [35:35]
B
Did you compete in track? You said you were a track star. Did you do. Did you compete in track? Okay, there you go. High school or like younger high school? Yeah, yeah, but. And so you played volleyball all through high school, and then obviously. So you just started. Just play basketball starting it. Was it hard? Was it hard? I'm curious about that. Was it hard to choose? Like, was. Was basketball just such your love that it was what you would pick? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. High fives. We got high fives. We got cheers. We got different. You get like a block after a block. You have like a certain code that everyone sings.
- [36:37]
C
The chenay, you know, is very much volleyball coded. But like my alter ego, the one that I, you know, don't let people know, the crazy girl is my very basketball Persona.
- [36:46]
B
That's probably fair. That's a fair representation. I respect that. My, My young daughter, she's a sevent grader. She does track, and she plays basketball. But the volleyball coach at school, you're. You're able to play middle school volleyball at our school. So the volleyball coach is like sending out, like, in interest emails because she's. She's 13.
- [37:06]
C
She's.
- [37:06]
B
She's not that tall, but I mean, she's five' eight. We're like, trying to encourage her to give volleyball a chance. It's very popular here where we live. Like, yeah, it is a wild. You talk about a whole different scene of, like, travel and being in and out of town. I mean, it's a.
- [37:20]
C
And I think they're saying it's the fastest growing sport. I mean, we just now have. Love the new volleyball league. So let her dabble. Let her dabble a little bit.
- [37:28]
B
The last thing. And I'm gonna leave you. You've been awesome. Jana, I can't. I can't thank you enough. This is super fascinating. Just give us a sense of. We've talked a lot about how far the women's basketball have. Have come at all levels. How especially, you know, up through now, the wnba, but like, what's next? So, like, where does it go from here? Like, we've. You guys have accomplished so much. We'll call it 20 years. What is the next phase? Like, how does the game continue to grow at a realistic and a real pace, but continue to just elevate across the world?
- [37:59]
C
That's the million dollar question. Because everyone's saying women's basketball, it's not a moment it's real momentum, but it takes work to continually push it to where it needs to go. We just came off of, like you said, a historic CBA. Asia's making $5 million over three years, top players making one. But we've got to continue to make sure that the product is worth it and the women will deliver on that. But I do think it's like the continued investment, like we still are on a learning curve. These franchises are new. The owners, some of them are new. And so some of that comes with bumps in the road. And so I'm just hoping that like the next few years, the next five years and the next 10 years as the product continues to be the best in class, that we allow the continued investment to make sure it continues to meet that size. Same exponential growth. And like, where do I see it? We're going to have more teams, we're going to have more top players. And I'm just hoping we have more visibility. You know, the WNBA is growing. I think we're going to have a record amount of games this year because of the expansion teams. So I'm just hoping that like we continue to have those touch points because the W's through the summer, like it's. I hope we get to still have moments through the winter and through the spring and that type of stuff. So just to continue the storytelling, I don't want it to feel like the W disappears. I want it to continue to be year round. The NFL we talk about are the NBA's year round. And I think a lot of it is on us media. And like that's the cool thing, like being on NBA today. And I know something's going on, like, hey guys, we should have this segment to talk about this player doing this or even just like continuing that bridge between college and pro. And that's the crazy thing, you mentioned it. Like we thought what day was a draft. It's because it happens within eight days. A national championship to now you're getting drafted. And so just continuing to bridge that gap between college and pro, which is something that we own so uniquely.
- [39:56]
B
What a whirlwind that they're on, right? Like you said, it feels like yesterday, but it feels like last year we watched UCLA win the Natty. Then there was the draft. All the girls that we saw, you know, Gabriella and Lauren, like all these girls just got drafted after we watched them win the Natty. And now it's going to be a blink of an eye and they're going to be wearing a different jersey.
- [40:16]
C
They're already at training camp. They're already at training camp.
- [40:19]
B
They must be exhausted. They must be exhausted.
- [40:21]
C
Working the tournament, broadcaster to broadcaster, you know, working these events, these games. Right. For both of us, is exhausting because you prepare, you're locked in on every play. The way I keep myself humble, like, man, I'm tired is I'm like, well, these women actually got to play the games. Exactly. So I can't be tired if they're the ones playing it.
- [40:41]
B
It's a different tired for sure, but
- [40:43]
C
it is a different tired. Yeah.
- [40:45]
B
Thank you so much. You've been awesome. Your work, your advocacy of the game continue to help it grow your career. Everything across the board, beyond impressive. So really appreciate you joining us here on on you think talk all things women's basketball, just the state of athletics across the world in general. You've been awesome. Really appreciate you coming on and spending a couple minutes with us.
- [41:06]
C
Hey, let the record reflect this was the quickest. Yes. Because I'm a huge fan of all that you do. You are absolutely crushing it. So keep taking the. Thank you. Keep doing it.
- [41:16]
A
Now it's time for the part of the show where Greg answers questions that you, the listeners, submitted. As a reminder, DM us your questions on Instagram or email us at ama@youth.in One listener asks, what's the right age to start talking to kids about goals, whether it's high school, making a team, or beyond.
- [41:35]
B
Yeah, so I think it's a great question, but I really think it's not even age dependent. We've had some really interesting conversations, even with some of our guests about the whole idea of goal setting. And when you talk to a lot of these professionals, there's a lot of people nowadays that are suggesting, like, don't so much focus on goals. Right. Goal setting can be very tricky because it's twofold, right. You set a goal and the idea is that you reach it and then the question becomes once you reach it, well, now you just have to make a new goal. Or else if the goal is to make the varsity baseball team and once you make the varsity baseball team, well, then the work doesn't stop, right? The. The quest for the end result. So everybody that we've talked to, all the science, all the people that really study this, that the idea is focus on the process, right? And if you focus on that daily process and you build really good systems, you know, we had, you know, James clear with atomic habits and, you know, some of these really interesting thought provokers, like focus on the processes, focus on Building really good systems, really good habits, and then whatever the end goal is, is you'll reach and whatever that maximum is. And, and then the, the other side of the coin, I talk a lot about with my kids. If the goal is to be a varsity baseball player and you do every single thing in your power daily and you don't make it, you're not a failure, right? So I think just goal setting is a very tricky element. Focus on systems, focus on habits, focus on daily improvement and process, and then whatever the end result is, is you can live with it.
- [43:07]
A
Perfectly said.
- [43:08]
C
All right.
- [43:09]
A
The next question is, how would you handle if your son doesn't want to put in the extra work outside of practice? I know you've talked about your kids walking by the batting cage to play Fortnite. How did you handle that?
- [43:20]
B
Well, I haven't always handled it probably the way I would like to imagine myself handling it, just speaking in our house. And then I'll just speak more, you know, kind of on a macro level. But like in our house, we're very clear on our standards, and we want to make sure that the inputs match the outputs. And when that gets disaligned or misaligned, I think that's where trouble starts. So don't tell me this is what you want to do. Don't tell me this is the team you're going to play for. And we're going to go travel and play in all these weekend events and tournaments. That's fine. We're willing to have those outputs. But the inputs better match, right? You better have that same level of work ethic, discipline. And you're not complaining about going to practice. You're not complaining about, you know, doing all the necessary steps that come with, with being on that team or achieving this certain path or, you know, whatever the, whatever the case may be. So we try to set those standards pretty high around here. And then even with our. With our kids that we coach that aren't necessarily our own children, we try to take the same approach, like, I'm going to coach you to the nth degree. And we want kids that want to show up and be coached and want to put in the extra work. And it's not a talent competition. Youth sports is really not a talent competition. The talent will sort itself out as they reach puberty and they reach the high school and they meet a girlfriend, they have a boyfriend, and life comes at them and things change pretty fast. But in the early days, just teach habits, teach formulas, teach, you know, routines and processes. And if you're willing to put that work in, then as a parent, as a coach, I'll do anything and everything to meet you halfway. But I'm not going to make sacrifices and we're not going to make family sacrifices unless it's matching the level of outputs and inputs that you're, you're contributing. So it's a delicate situation. You don't want your kids to be obsessive. You don't want your kids to be narrow minded and not have any extracurriculars or social. But you also want to make sure that all this time and energy that we're putting into a sport you say you really like, well, let's make sure that it matches. So that's a difficult situation, especially at these early teenage years and it's ever changing.
- [45:28]
A
I totally agree. I think the no boyfriend thing helped me out a lot. Personally, it's hard. I resonated with that a lot. I think that made me go like this.
- [45:38]
B
There you go. Well, I'm going to tell them I'm going to share that with my daughter. I heard a college coach say one time they were talking about like how you evaluate, you know, back in the day, you know, they, they'd be giving eighth graders, you know, college scholarship offers and the whole thing got so wacky and a college coach goes, how am I going to offer a kid who has yet to discover girls and has yet to discover alcohol?
- [46:00]
A
Alcohol.
- [46:00]
B
And like his point was they haven't even lived life. They haven't even had real life experiences that are inevitable. And you know, let's, we can all take a deep breath and figure out, okay, we got lots of time to see that the biggest differentiator between some of the guys that I played with had nothing to do with their on field abilities. Sometimes life gets in the way of some of these paths and that's real. Appreciate everyone listening. You catch you again next week here on Youthink.