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Youth sports in America are at a crossroads, and I'm here to help lead the conversation forward. I'm Greg Olson. Each week we're sitting down with top athletes, coaches, and more to talk about what's working, what's broken, and what's next. Welcome to you think. But I want to read a quote. A wise man once said, I encourage everyone to play football for the simple reason that it is hard. And I think I want to start there because I think it's a really. If anyone doesn't know, Tom is the one who said that. I just think it really paints a picture into just your entire approach, just the way you view things, the way you went after things, not only in your career, your post career, your business ventures. Where did that mindset. Where did that mindset of embracing difficult challenges and pushing through the hard, like, where did that all start for you? I think the interesting part is the journey of football for me started at a young age, but I wasn't probably the typical kid that you think would reach 23 seasons in the NFL and to be a part of seven championship teams. I didn't play Pop Warner football. It really wasn't available where I grew up. And when I started playing, I was a freshman in high school. We had three teams at our school. The freshman team, the JV team, and the varsity team. I started on the freshman team, but I didn't even start. I started playing as a freshman, but I was the backup quarterback on our freshman team, and we were.07 to start my freshman career. I fell in love with the sport because the 49ers, I didn't know how to put pads in my pants at that age. I was looking around on all the other kids, the kids, if it makes you feel any better, the kids still don't know how. Okay, good. Thank God. Because I was looking around like, how do I put the butt pad in? And the back. Can't even see it. And you got to put it on the loop through the pad. It was a disaster. And I just remember getting out on the field and I, of course, I had watched football growing up, and I was. But I never played it. And then you start hearing all the play calls and what do I do on a pinch stunt and on a, you know, how am I going to play linebacker? Well, thankfully, I couldn't play linebacker. They. They found me at quarterback, but because I had a decent arm, but I didn't really play. And I'll make a long story short. It was a. It was a struggle for me, and people Wouldn't see this now, but my second year is on. I played junior varsity and I ended up winning the starting job because the guy was the freshman quarterb quit. And we were okay that year, but I really fell in love with the sport. And then my third and fourth year, I started on varsity. I got lightly recruited to Michigan and ended up choosing there because I thought, okay, I was a bit naive of how hard it actually would be, but I was like, you know, if I want. If you want to be the best, you got to beat the best. But of course, I was nowhere in the realm physically or mentally or emotionally where a lot of these other kids were when they arrived at campus of Michigan. I was. There were six other quarterbacks ahead of me at Michigan. I started and I fought my whole career, college career, to. To end up getting to start. And I started my fourth and fifth year and there was a lot of struggles along the way. And I would say I had a good college career. It wasn't great. I thought I'd be a second or third round pick in the NFL because I developed and I was very much late bloomer. And then I got picked by the Patriots at 199 and then was the fourth quarterback on the depth chart when I started at the Patriots. So I guess my point in saying this is I really valued, when I did get a chance to play as a starter, I really valued where I was at because it was hard for me. And every step along the way was a challenge for me to get from one year to the next, to get from the freshman team to the junior varsity team, the junior varsity team to the senior team, this, the varsity team to the college team. And in my red shirt, freshman year was hard. Everything about it was a challenge, but I really valued it. And I knew that, okay? And I always said this thing, well, if they put me on the field, Tommy, they're never going to take you off. And fortunately for me, and it was tough situation for Drew, but he got injured in his second year. And when I remember running on the field, I felt I was really prepared because I knew how to compete. And I ran out on my field in the second year. I think I was 24 years old, and I basically played for. For 21 straight seasons after that. And every step along the journey for those 21 years was a challenge. And I think when I referenced how hard it was, it was never something that to me, you could just, hey, let's just roll my helmet on the field. I think you and I both played with players like that, that they're really talented as youth. They never really learn how to develop a great work ethic. And I'm not saying they don't work hard. I'm just saying they don't work as hard as they could possibly work. They work to a level of their comfort, and then they don't. They're competitive, but they never have to be ultra competitive because they're physically just a lot better than everybody else. So I think just some of those teachings and learnings that I had ended up being great blessings in my life. It was a blessing that it was hard. And I think. No, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. No. Well, I just think it's a blessing when it is hard because you. There were so many times along the way where I thought, man, maybe it should be easier than this, or maybe I should go take an easier route. Maybe I should go to a lesser competitive school than Michigan. You know, that was one. Maybe I should quit football because that would have been easier in high school. But I look back and I go, you know what? I'm so happy I didn't. Because it. It built up a level of determination and resilience in me that was able to transcend decades in professional sports. And when we think of the great players and not everyone's going to be a great player, but whether you want to be a great player in life, you want to be a great athlete in life, you want to be a great member of your family, you want to be a great member of your community, you want to do great in your. In your office job, well, you better be a great teammate, and you better learn to overcome the things that don't go your way. Because a lot of times the things that don't go in your way, if you look at them as a blessing and you learn from it and you get more determined for it and more resilient than it will be blessing. And that will carry you a lot further in life than something that's given to you. So many young coaches that I see focus so much about how much do I know about the sport, right? I'm a young high school football coach. Everything's X's and O's. I'm a young basketball coach, a baseball coach. I want you to talk about the role of a coach, but not because you draw the best offensive plays or you've got the best. No huddle offense. Or tell me in your mind, like, the role of the best coaches you've been around, whether that's guys on your staff or guys you coached under or like, just give an idea of like in your mind, Championship coaching is what? That's a great question. I wish I could, I wish my staff could hear this right now because you're really boiling this down to what really matters the most at any level. I think the first thing is you teach. You know, sometimes I want to even say to our coaches, slow down, just talk to this young man, coach him, ask him what, what is he seeing? What is he thinking? What is going through his mind? What is he looking at? What is he seeing? You know, we always, just like you said, want to go on to the next play or, you know, just so, you know, want to coach them hard. And we do. We all have to coach hard. But like, sometimes we just need to like talk to them and teach them. Now, we're not going to coach effort, we're not going to coach focus. Like, that's something that is a whole other conversation. But if you have guys who are willing to give great effort, willing to focus, you have to teach them and then you have to drill those things that you're doing. And then you have to build up this foundation. We have this book, I got it right here, that we're reading as a team. It's called Chop Wood, Carry Water. And it's a great book. And each, each chapter is only like about a 45 second read. It's really quick. And so what we did as a team this summer is every day we had a player get up and summarize what the chapter meant. And so we had it on the indoor, we had it on the monitors in the building and everybody had to kind of read that. And then we picked them out so that somebody would have to read and explain what that was. And to me, like, that is a great book because it's all about the process over the results. Like, you're constantly working, working on the process. And you know, like for instance, one of the chapters talks about how every inch matters, every decision that you make matters. If you eat McDonald's today, you're not going to get fat and overweight and sick, but if you eat it every single day, eventually that's going to happen. Like who you hang out with, you know, what you listen to, what time you wake up in the morning, what you eat, what you focus on, all those things add up in the end. And when you're focusing on that process, when you fail, it's a good thing. Like, how do you grow? You grow by failing. You grow by, you know, first got on a bike, what Happened, you fell off. But how quickly can you learn from those failures along the way? But when I watch youth sports today, I got to tell you, like I watch parents who are screaming and yelling and care if a team wins a fifth grade basketball game like that. That's not it. It's about the process. Are we actually getting better at the skills that we need to move on and grow from? And, and that doesn't really even change when we get to college. It's the same things. Like we have to focus on that. And to your point, you know, we've had games in the past, you know, the 22 game against Georgia, we miss a field goal in the semifinals, and if not, we go to against TCU and probably win the national championship. Same thing in 19. Like, we've been a player or two away from winning a championship. But the focus has to be on the process, not the result. Result, because you know, there's a lot of things that can happen in a game. So I, I covered a lot of ground right there, but to me, important points. No, I love it. It's like the old adage, right? How you do some things is how you do everything. Exactly. We try to tell our, our kids that we coach. I just had a seventh and eighth grade for our middle school football team. We just had our summer workout this morning, 8am we're out there and we preach it like our brain doesn't know whether this is a random Wednesday in July or, or if this is the fourth quarter end against our bitter rival for the last game of the season. We, we can't decide when it's time to turn it on, when it's time, when does it matter? It doesn't matter. Our brains don't know the difference. And the idea of building those processes and those routines. You're so spot on. I want to shift. I don't want to cut you off for one second because I think this is important. I think and having three young kids who are in sports and seeing them and then seeing their peers, like not everybody has the same burn as the other. And when you start to move towards, you know, the higher levels of competition, sometimes you need to identify, like, who has that burn. Like you had that burn and like attaching yourself to that burn to understand what puts two feet on the ground every day for you to want to be great, because not everybody's wired that way. Now a part of that is as a coach, like, if you have guys on a team who aren't that wired that way, how do you motivate them to want to become the best versions of themselves. And so there's two conversations there. One, you want to have those people who are just wired that way. Then the other part is, like, how do you motivate those that are around who maybe aren't that wired that way, to be the best versions of themselves through positivity and encouragement? Will Howard was the most positive leader I've ever been around. I learned a lot from him because sometimes I can be negative. He would always make people think they could do more than they could. He was tremendous that way, and I learned a lot from him. That was his leadership style. But the people that you're around who want to be great. And I see young kids, like, I say it to my daughters all the time, like, if you don't want this, don't do it. If you don't want to, then go find an instrument to play. Go become the best musician, or, you know, do something else. Be an artist. Like, find what you love and your passion and then grab onto it. I think sometimes parents want it more than the kids. Like, they have to find their love and their passion, and then they'll own it, and then they're the ones that'll wake up earlier than you. I think parenting is really hard on its own, and it gets really hard when you start comparing yourself to other parents. And that's the really difficult part of, like, having to be like, hey, my kid is my kid. They're going to do things at their speed, and they're going to do things that they want to do, and you can't compare to other. Like, some of my friends would be like, oh, yeah, my kid at, you know, four, wanted to play, had a bat in his hand. Like you said, like, being like, I want to go play. And. And like, it's. It's just human nature to then compare your. Your child. But you have to stop yourself and be like, no, that's not. My kid is going to be his own person, and he's going to do things at his speed and just finding that balance. Because you're right. Like, right now, I do have to. To somewhat force him to do things. And, and the craziest thing is, you know, this. Like, I'll. My. My son will not want to go to Taekwondo. And then we'll go. And he'll have the best time, of course. And at the end, he'll be like, that was awesome. Like, I broke a board, I got a new belt, all that stuff. Like, he was so happy when he got when he went up a level in the belt and I was just like, yeah, see, this is, I wish I could bottle this up and remind you every time we're in the car after school and being like, you want to go to Taekwondo? And you're like, no, I don't want to go. It's like, remember that moment. But it's hard because he's six. You know, it's hard for six year olds to, to, to, to understand that and like future plans. So like, the comparison thing is really, really difficult. And I'm sure it gets even more difficult as you get, as your kids get older and every, you know, it gets a little more competitive and trying to, trying to navigate that where you don't want to be the overbearing dad who's not only pushing him too hard, but also bragging too much about like what your kid is doing to a point where you're, you now become the person you don't like. No doubt. And I, and I think you bring up a really good point because there is an element that again, we're, we're all biased, right? We, we all parent our kids to. Similar to our upbringing and similar to our experiences and the things that we love. We want our kids to love. We want to share the. We want to go to the Cubs game and have your kid be a die hard Cubs fan and sit in Wrigley and tell you the batting lineup. And like every dad dreams of that with their kid that, you know, your kid loves football because that's what we loved. That's what we grew up loving. We grew up watching it. And everyone wants to share those experiences with their kids. So there is that element where you have to you. I don't know how to teach my kid to go fishing. I don't know how to teach my kid to join the band, the orchestra. If they were interested in it, I would love it. I'd be in the front row at the recital and I'd be all in if they were all in. But I only know what I know and I only know what I enjoy doing. So I guess we all are, selfishly or biasedly, whatever you want to say, kind of push our kids to try to enjoy things that we enjoy because there is an element to how cool would it be. Yeah, I love going to Cubs games, but how cool would it be if like me and my kid grew up going there and he was also a die hard fan? Like right or wrong, that's in all of our brains, like, and I don't know how we fight that. It's. It's really hard. My kids have been. I have season tickets to the Cubs. My kids have been to, like, 10 games this year. And I think my daughter has watched, like, two pitches. You know, she goes, because we can get a hot dog and a pretzel and. But I. I like going. And I. I think they understand that I like going. But, like, there's times where I'm like, you guys don't even understand how. How nice is that. You've been to 10 games this year. You know, we're halfway through the summer. You've been to 10 games, like, so. But they're still so young. And then the other thing I struggle with, and this is where it started on pmt, is like, I do want to coach them. I want to be involved in that way, but I also don't want to do it too early where I think it's hard for kids, where, like, if your dad is coaching you when you're six, when you're seven, you start thinking about your, you know, it's just a different relationship. So it's like, when do I enter that? Like, I would love to, you know, coach, you know, my son playing basketball. But I also don't want to be at a. He's at a. He's at an age right now where if I'm at the practice, like, it's going to be me, like, telling him to pay attention. And I don't want to do that. You know what I mean? Because that's. That's kind of. I have to do that at home, and I don't want to have to do that when we're. When we're out, you know, doing something that's supposed to be fun with all his friends. So trying to find that balance of when I get involved and how much I get involved. And maybe it's. I don't get involved at all. But it's. It's. It's. It's. It's very difficult because I do want them to like the things I like. And you're exactly right. Like you in a dream world, it's like they become a mini me. But that's not going to be reality. You know, they have to like their own things. Of course you didn't. You missed practice. This the day before the game. Why do you expect to have a good game? Like, trying to get them to understand that while not everything is in their control, a lot of things are in their control. And let's put all of our focus and effort into that because we're so worried about the outcome. We're so worried about how many hits we got or how many catches we had or how many sacks we made. And I think it's so easy now, especially raising these kids in today's world with highlight real culture. Like, it's very easy to lose track of the journey. It's very easy to lose track of teaching the process because everybody coaches to the scoreboard, everybody coaches to the highlight reel. They coach to the Instagram clip. And I think it's a big reason why youth sports has gone off the rails a little bit is because we do ignore everything we've talked about up to this point, everything you just laid out. I think for a lot of kids around the country, that approach has really been lost. I would agree with you. And I got to be honest, like, for somebody listening or, you know, who might have a kid that you think could play college football or, you know, in the pros or, you know, get a scholarship for some Olympic sport, whatever it is, these very things that I'm sure this resonates with you, but, like, it's not just gonna. It's not just gonna be how your kid plays youth sports. It's gonna be how your kid does everything as an adult, and you only get one shot at it. And, you know, people can change as they get older, and people can mature. In their 20s. We've had teammates who, you know, show up and they're super talented, but, like, they're just. They don't give a. Whatever. And, you know, sometimes they change. More often than not, though, like, people are who they are in their 20s and 30s and that sort of thing. And so, like, if it weren't for the things that the process oriented, the process centering mindset, I don't think I'd have been able to get through eight years in St. Louis, you know, and. And I think, you know, what I'm talking about is like, yeah, you know, we're one of. Man, it's brutal. 7 and 9, 6 and 10. And so, like, having won in the NFL at the tail end of my career, I look back and I'm like, how'd you do that? Well, I did it because all I cared about was when somebody turns on the tape, do I give great effort? Do I control what I can control? I don't know how many times I heard my dad say, as a pro, control what you can control. And it's the same things we're talking about that you're saying to your 12, 13 year old son or daughter. And when you are an adult and mom and dad can't help you in the real world, you have to have those things instilled in you so you only get one shot at it. I'm gonna err on the side of my kid being tough mentally and. And hard working. Yeah, we're gonna be tough as hell, physically, mentally. And you're gonna compete your ass off in everything that you do. And you're gonna have a great attitude. You're gonna treat your teammates good. Like all that stuff is so teachable. We can't control if they're 67. We can't control if they run 4. 5. There was good. You know what's funny? Touch. Speaking of being a touch, dude, first off, really well done, my younger son. I can't even say the number six without him yelling seven at me. It's off the board. He's like, how is that Darnell Washington? I'm like, he's six, eight. Yeah, I lie now. I just lie. I just make up things. But you know what's so funny about it is before this became, like, a thing. I don't know if I realized how many times we all actually say, I don't know, like six or seven. Like, it's such a common phrase. Like, I don't. I don't get it, but I hear it all the time. But now I find myself, like, mid sentence being like, it's like six. It's nine. But just G, please don't be. I don't want to be watching a game. And by the way, you're the best. We love watching you call games. Dude, you're just. I've told you this, but you're. You're incredible at it. Appreciate it. And so is my brother Kyle, by the way. I think he's great. Be up there with you one day, I'm hoping. But. But if I catch you doing the 67 thing, I'm going to turn the TV off. You're not going to catch me. I don't do gimmicks. I don't do gimmicks. No, you don't. That's why I left. I don't do gimmicks. That was an inadvertent. Teach me how to be a girl sports dad. Because I only know sports one way. And, like, I get into these arguments with parents at school, and I'm like, these girls are fine. Like, they can be coached. We can hold them to high standards. We don't need to baby them. Like, yeah, what do we do? Am I crazy? Like, help me be a better girl dad in sport? Well, I guess just a girl dad in general, but a girl dad who's now trying to help a young daughter navigate, you know, middle school sports at the moment. Yeah, well, and. And I think it's. It's where your kid is too, right? Like, every kid is different. Like, for example, my daughter in high school did not want mom and dad, who played a lot of soccer to have any feedback in given to her. And so we were like, well, okay, like, but we can help you. You know, that's a hard one to swallow. Yeah. And you're like, we. But, like, we've kind of played and my husband coached at a high level. And so it was like, we kind of know this sport a little bit. Don't you want, like, a little bit of information? And she's like, no more information. And so we honored that. And it wasn't until her, like, senior year in high school, she was like, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready now for information because I realize I need to catch up on stuff, right? And then she wanted to grow, and I mean, she always wanted to grow. But I think it gets to a point where it's like, I just don't want any more information. I just want to play and all that. So I think it's where your kid is in terms of what they're feeling, of the volume and the amount of information that they're willing to absorb and honoring that. Right. But I also think, yes. I mean, that was the thing I loved about the national team is like, I was around a bunch of competitive women that it was okay to push them in a way that was, like, really healthy. And I was like, hell, yes. I'm around people now that, like, understand, like, I don't want to be babied. I want. I want to play, I want to compete, I want to do these things. I want to win. I want to win. And I don't need to hide the fact that I want to win because this is like all these women around me understand that. So I do not think you need to baby them. I agree with that. But I think the problem we have, and not just inherent to the women's side of the game, but with youth sports, is that, as Abby was saying, you know, my. My biggest takeaway I have a son who's 16 and now daughter who's playing at Oregon in her first year as a freshman, 18 year old, is that we. We have a tendency as parents with the best of intentions to just suck the joy out of it. Because we are trying to, as Abby mentioned, figure it out for ourselves. Like, we want our kids to have scholarships. We want our kids, again, with the best of intentions. We want them to be successful in the sport. And so we push and we train and we have them, you know, think, you know, just singular sports and, you know, and specify. And they end up doing just one sport rather than trying different sports. So I, I, when, when we talk about youth sports, I don't talk about the kids. I talk about the parents, because they're the ones and the coaches who are dictating the experience. And we have to. Our North Star has always been with our family. Like, do you like it? Like, do you even enjoy it? And if you don't enjoy it, why are you doing it? And the parent has to then frame that for them, too. Their behavior on the sidelines, the way you're talking to a kid about their goals and expectations, the way we're talking to them about, like, you know, I had a daughter who was, like, so worried that her coach would punish her because she wanted to go to prom. I'm like, go to prom. Go do your dances. Like, go have fun in life. Like, there will be more games, There will be more tournaments. We don't have to miss every family vacation because you're worried about a tournament or a showcase or like, like, that perspective from a parent is lost. I feel like nowadays in new sports and we got to bring that back. Greg, can I actually, can I give you, like, one little tip that. Please. I need 10 tips. This is a good tip. I've got, I got a lot of tips. But one really good tip around the difference between coaching a young, young woman, young girl versus a young boy, young, young man is when, when a coach or a parent is talking to a group in a lot. Let's just say we're in a locker room and a coach is talking to the team. If the coach says, you know, one of you out there is just, like, really sucking it up, you're not working as hard as you need to do, a group of boys will think, oh, my God, he's talking to this guy out here. He's not talking to me. And a group of girls, a group of young girls think the coach is talking to them. So we do have to approach psychologically the way that we talk to these kids. Yes, I do think setting high standards and maintaining those high standards is really important. But especially with, with young girls, they have to, they have to set what that standard Is right. Like having those conversations with these young girls is like, what do you guys want out of this season? What do you want out of your individual accomplishments? Like what kind of goals are you setting for yourself? Because then you can hold them accountable to that stuff. But parents set their own goals and their own standards for what they want for their kids and they hold their children to that standard. And the kids have not signed on to that. They have not co signed that deal. So that's. That is so spot on. Yeah. Like this connection between hard work and the outcome that you were talking about, Greg, we assume that it's either there and, or not. And if it's not there, we have to like. As opposed to saying maybe this is something that emerges slowly. I know lots of people who didn't make that connection in other parts of their life until they were in their 30s. I didn't, I didn't work very hard in my 20s. You did not at writing or. I spent the latter, the early part of my 30s, essentially goofing off at the Washington Post, sitting in an office in New York, watching MTV and trying to do as little work as possible. I now work harder than I work harder at 61, than I did at 31. Way harder. Just took me a long time to figure out that there was this connection between what I wanted. And I wonder with kids too where maybe we're just rushing them on this. That like there's a moment, I use running examples. There's a moment as a runner when you really begin to enjoy the connection between the preparation and the outcome. And part of what's pleasurable about like a nice long Saturday morning run is you're thinking, you're already thinking in advance what that's going to mean when I want to do something with it. Right. But that I didn't have that when I was 14. That's a good point. I got that when I was 50. Yeah. I'm looking at it through the frame of a 40 year old who's only playing professional athlete. Professional athlete. For my entire life. All I've ever known is trying to play at a high level and peak performance and pre. It's all. Yeah. So I've almost been trained. And again, this started for me. I was the son of a high school football coach who was hard, disciplined, traditional old school high school football, legendary high school. A million games. One of the most in northern New Jersey. Right outside of. In Wayne, New Jersey. Oh yeah. Right outside the top, right down Route 3 and yeah. Public high school won a million games Traditional high school. What you would think of a high school football in the 80s, 90s, 2000s. That was my dad. That was our program and it worked. And that's where I learned all of my habits, all of my grind. Our summer vacations for us were going to football camps and sleeping on the floors of the dorm like it's all I ever knew. But I also sometimes have to check myself and say, okay, these kids don't have 40 years of the experience and life, life experiences of high achievement and what, they're 12. So do you, Greg, to just check your orientation. Can I ask you some questions? Yeah. Just to better understand if there's a, a fundamental orientation to work from. And fundamental is a big word for me. Either I'm approaching success or I'm avoiding failure. And so in one of those two would reveal a lot of somebody's psychology. So if you, if you. Let's just do you. And you'll see how this would easily bleed into your kids. That I'm terrified of blowing it. Go, go. When you were on the field, I work my ass off. I work. I was in film, I was doing everything I did my mental image, I did all of my work so that when Sunday came, I wouldn't blow it. Or was it more like, no, I got something and there's a lot of good here and I want to maximize this because it is so much fun to play and to play freely. Very different orientations, very different psychological constructs that. And when I say psychological constructs, what a construct does is it allows the effervescent little, small little conversations we have with ourselves kind of filter into something that has some weight over time. So when you played, which one were you? And then how are you doing? I would imagine you're doing it similar with your kids, not dissimilar. But can you just open that up? My, my confidence. Everything about me was routine and preparation. I. All of my insecurities, all of my fears, all of my. I don't want to drop the ball. I want to make sure like all of that, just the natural athletic fears of failure that were in all of our brains. The only way I knew how to deal with them was I was so routine oriented. And I knew from Monday to Sunday morning at one o' clock if I did Monday's routine Tuesday all the way through, when that ball was kicked off on Sunday, there was nothing more that I could have done. I did my entire routine, all my habits, from physical body work to catching to my practice habits to my workouts, to Everything. Talk a little bit more about your parents and your upbringing and how you guys found the balance between growing up as a young girl in Colorado and having friends and having sleepovers and playing, you know, just being a normal kid, but then also recognizing, like, listen, we can harness a really unique gift and. And the desire to pursue it, that there is an opportunity, there is a path that's unique for Missy that is not the same path for everybody else. We can find. We can pursue that with great intent without sacrificing the other side. Like, how did they do it? As you look back now as a mom, like, what is your reference of, like, the job they did protecting you, keeping you innocent, but also keeping you driven and on course to achieve what you did? Yeah, well, I'll talk about them for an hour, so just buckle up. But my parents are my best friends. I mean, they are the two most incredible people that I know. And the more I have grown, becoming a mom, I just have become more in awe of what they did. Because at the time, when I was that young, right. I didn't realize that this was their first time, too. Like, they always seem so calm and in control that it was like, oh, they know what they're doing. And I look back now, and I'm like, they had no idea what they were doing. And now being a mom, I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. They didn't know what they were doing. Of course I don't know what I'm doing. We just don't know. We don't know. But they never, ever made me feel like that. And I think I just. I have so much respect for them. But, Greg, I think one thing that was so important with our family and so unique was I was very intrinsically motivated. And I think my parents recognized that, and they let that work to my advantage. So my dad talks a lot about being an enabler and not a motivator. So they would never wake me up for a practice because at the end of the day, yeah, sure, they could have come in, woken me up, thrown me in the car, driven me to practice, but I'm the one getting in the pool. Like, it was up to me whether or not I was going to make that practice worthwhile or a total waste of time. So why wake me up if that decision is ultimately mine to begin with anyway? So I would be the one to wake myself up in the morning. I would have to set my own alarm, and they wouldn't wake me up if I didn't But I always. Did you ever sleep through. Did you ever sleep through a practice? No. No. But on the other side, they had everything ready for me. So I would wake up in the morning, my mom would have a breakfast. It's Colorado. She would have my parka in the dryer so that it would be warm. My dad would be outside scraping the snow off the car. So I knew in my mind that literally all I had to do was show up and they were going to support me every way they could around me. Me just showing up and doing my best. And that was really throughout our entire careers. Like, I understood that this was my dream and my goal and no one else could do that for me. Like, I was the only one that was in control of that outcome. But I had so much help and support in making that outcome possible. Yeah. And that's super powerful and just such a great message and again, a great lesson for all of us parents. Like, I've woken my kids up to go to priority practice, right. I'm sitting. Like, we've all done it. Well, maybe not all your parents didn't, but we all do it. And, you know, it just. It's such a really powerful message and really good perspective that at the end of the day, while we can be supportive and we can help and we can guide it is the kids journey. We're having a lot of coaches, a lot of these travel ball coaches, even school coaches that are starting at a young age to get to these young athletes and say, hey, if you don't pick basketball, if you don't pick football or baseball or soccer, you're gonna fall behind. And I think there's a lot of kids that are feeling that pressure. Like, did you have any coach at any point, whether it was in high school or even earlier in middle school, or did you have any coaches that you had to go home and talk to your mom and dad and say, hey, coach, so and so is trying to get me to just play basketball or just play football. Did you have to fight that, like, coming up in your day? Definitely, yeah, I definitely did. You know, I had a lot of guru or trainers or people who were expertise, you know, at these things, who were trying to put pressure on you. And I think, to be honest with you, if I could be frank, I think it's a money grab and I think it's a finesse. Because at the end of the day, like my dad, at least he would always be honest with me. Like, I play multiple sports is what he was saying. I think it's Very helpful. So it was great. I was grateful to have my dad there to help me in that aspect at that age. And my mom, she wasn't very sportsy, but she was also very, very, very hard on us about our morals and our standard of a family. And one of our standards was if you start something, you finish it. So I wasn't going to start to play baseball and then I finish it, you know. So I would say, you know, to those people who are going through those pressures, I mean, you know, you have to really, really dive deep into, like, what is the benefit. So what I used to do is write pros and cons list. So I would write pros of I stayed in the sport and cons if I left the sport or if I stayed in the sport. So both ways. And I think that's something that is important, you know, that we have to do is, you know, put those pros and cons together. But yeah, I wouldn't dive deep into those ideas that this would make you far behind. And like, at the end, they're still kids, you know what I mean? You're still developing not only as an athlete, but as a person and as a human being. And I think if your goal is to be a professional athlete at 5, 6, 7, you know, preteen, you know, like that, to my opinion, that shouldn't be a goal. The goal should be being a better person, being a better being, better at discipline, learning, teammate etiquette, learning, sportsmanship. Like, these are the things, and I know, Greg, you can probably admit to this as well, these are things that got me to the NFL. Like, if you have the talent, the talent's gonna, gonna show every year, in it through, in and throughout, like, you'll be fine. It's those things that keep you around, in my opinion. So those are the things I would say, like, don't, don't put pressure on the aspect of making it right away. Like, that shouldn't be the standard. The standard. It should be a better in every little thing as a person before, you know, being a professional athlete. Yeah, it's so well said. We've said on this show a few times, if the goal of youth sports is to be a pro, then everybody should just stop doing it it right, because. Because it's not worth it. You know, there's not enough kids that are going to go pro to make the investment across the board at a young age. It's all about the growth, it's about the development. It's about all the traits, everything that you're talking about. So we couldn't agree with you more. And to the parents out there whose kid is not that high, high level elite athlete and the time on task, especially in a sport like baseball, is their only chance of making the Charlotte Christian football, baseball team or the whatever team down in Atlanta, like some of these really competitive teams, if I don't do it all year round, I'm not going to be able to keep up. What would you say to those people who give that reason for why they just pick one sport? So this would be my argument, right? And you know this because of how good you were in football. So we had guys on our baseball team that played year round in high school. They didn't play football. You know, we probably had seven or eight guys doing both sports and they played travel ball all through the fall and we would step back in, in January in the cages and by two weeks I was 10 times better than every one of these kids that had played all fall. And so my devil's advocate with that to be Greg, you either have it or you don't. Like, I find it hard to believe that kids could play year round and that's the only way I can go play baseball at NC State. Right. Like, I just, I'm like, there's kids that are either going to be really good and you can go to that next level or there's going to be kids and maybe there's a kid every once in a while that has to work, work, work, work and can do it. But I just find too like, what about, what about the memories you want to look back from? You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like you go to a high school, go out there and you can say, man, those two kids have a chance playing the NFL. That kid or one of those two kids, they got a chance to maybe get drafted and make their way. Everybody else is just going to be great high school players and that's okay. Which is great. Which is, that's what I'm saying. That's the whole idea. So that's my, that's what I fight back is like usually if you, if you're smart enough as a parent, you can look at your kid. If you truly look at your kid and don't have blinders on and all those things and say, you know what, my kid has a legit chance. And my dad always says like, I knew you were a great baseball player, but going into my senior year, I went on the USA trials, I made the team. We went to Cuba for three Weeks I was on the US Junior national team. We lost to Cuba in the championship, two to one. It was incredible. Fidel Castro was sitting right behind home plate. Like, it was amazing down there. And I got home and that was the first time, first time I ever heard my dad say, you know, I think you got a chance at this thing. That was going into my senior year, not in eighth grade, not in even ninth or 10th grade. Like, he knew I was a great high school player, but I had never really stacked up against the rest of the country. And so that was like what I always say now that these kids in eighth grade you got. I just don't buy that, man. I don't buy it. I believe that you can go play football for five months and I believe you can go play baseball for five months and be really good. Now you might have to do extra work, right? Like you might have to go in December and January, over Christmas, like I did with my dad, and hit in the cages and get yourself ready. But if, if you're prepared to do that work to boat Playbow Sports. And you said something on our podcast two weeks ago that I think we've played it 10 times already and it resonates so good with me. If you have a high school coach telling you you can only play one sport, run for the hills, man. Like, that is not your coach. I couldn't agree more. And the thing I love that you said, I think so much of this generation's kids are so worried about the outcome, right? I want to go to college, I want to play varsity, I want to be a pro, like, whatever. That the ultimate end goal of the journey is where all the attention is. And what we're seeing, not only here locally, that we see with our own two eyes, but it's going on around the country is we got kids that are going to graduate from high school and played at three different high schools and five different travel ball teams and they're going to go to three different colleges. And then one day, unless they become the World Series MVP and unless they go on to have like an incredible professional career in whatever sport, the only thing you have left are those core memories. The only thing you have left is that Friday night game with your buddies that you can talk about, you know, in the hot tub at down in Mexico, like, that's all you're gonna have. But if we don't focus on creating those core experiences and those core memories, you're pinning the entire journey on the outcome being the ultimate desired outcome, which is to be A professional athlete. And the likelihood of that happening is so small that for 99 plus percentage of these kids taking on this journey in today's environment, they're not going to be pros. You're down in Miami. You're recruiting the PBR national kind of showcase world that's going on. I want to dive into Z. Some of the youth baseball things. I don't want to say issues, but just the youth baseball reality that is playing out, that I'm sure is very different. And you live it every single day. But whether I'm sitting in your team meeting at Tennessee or I'm a high school kid or a grad transfer kid or whoever it is, and you're recruiting me, like, who are you trying to recruit? Like, give us an idea of the, the ultimate target, the ideal recruit to come to the University of Tennessee to try to win Tony, win national championships with you. Like, who is that kid? Yeah, and that's kind of a variation of the question we often get at the. At the park. It'll be, you know, like a mom. Hey, I don't want to bother you. I see you're watching the game, but what are you guys looking for? And you know, there is no magic answer other than what you just said. You're looking for someone that can help you win. So if we backtrack it a little bit, what kind of resume does that individual have now? Our scholarships are changing and things like that. But like, for instance, do you have good grades? Because if you can, you can get an academic scholarship. Or at the very least, we know you're going to be eligible and you're going to be organized and then, you know, so on and so forth. And a guy might be just blazing fast, you know, was joking about Hester there, but a guy could be crazy. He would have been a good base stealer. Yeah, no doubt. He's got hot side all day. No doubt, no doubt. I feel like he was that guy that you knew he was supposed to be fast, but until you saw it in real time, you couldn't catch up. And that's why he was able to. To surprise some people, even in a Super bowl kickoff. It was fun to watch, but, you know, if you're fast, maybe you get a little leeway from a scout on the hitting tool. So the bottom line is you want your resume to be as strong as possible. So one kid. Yeah. You might end up on Twitter hitting a big homer because, you know, you captured that moment and you have power. But what about the other 20 at bats that weren't captured on Twitter, Were they strikeouts? Are you struggling to put the ball in play? So I feel like the better resume you have, the more attractive you are to us. And then it'll I'm jumping into playing time stuff. Guys that are in college need to be able to come into me, not have their parents or agent reach out about playing time. And if you come into the office, you better bring your resume with you. Not literally, but figuratively speaking. Say, hey, this is like in the weight room, I'm our best worker. Or I realize I'm not our best hitter, but on defense, I can do this, this and this. So it's important for kids to be well round.