← Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Jeff Francoeur Previews MLB Playoffs, Talks Athlete Development, Mental Fitness & More w/ Greg Olsen
00:49:54
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- [00:00]
A
Make sure you subscribe to both our YouTube channel and our RSS feed for all future conversations here at you think. I'm really excited to have on today's guest on. You think? Because you'd be shocked how many messages I get on social media. Like, pure Athlete, they're your competition. You guys are trying to do the same. Like, how do you feel about what Jeff Vancour and those guys are doing, a pure Athlete. And I sit there and I say, I think it's great. Like, I think the more people having these conversations and having similar ideas and going out and, and diving into this world, the better. So without further ado, Jeff Francourt, Pure Athlete, the work you guys are doing, I'm a huge fan. Been following you guys for a long time and appreciate you joining us here on the Enemy podcast of you think.
- [00:46]
B
Yeah, right. It's funny because I've been thinking about that a long time. Like, you know, watching all Yalls clips, watching y' all stuff, Greg. And it's like, I think there's enough room for a lot of us in this landscape and to know how messed up this world of youth sports is. I'm like, I love what y' all are doing. Same thing, man. Because ultimately we want, we want the kids to learn to get better and to do it the right way. And I'm like, good lord, there needs to be more people, not just you and I and our group speaking out about this.
- [01:15]
A
No doubt. Well, I appreciate you joining us. We got a lot to dive into just for, for our listeners who maybe aren't as familiar with Pure Athlete or haven't come across it or follow it on social, but don't know the backstory. Like, give him one. You know, you, you've lived sports from the little league level all the way to the pros. Multi sport athlete growing up. We dove into it when I was on your show a couple weeks back. Just give us a little backstory on, like, what the motivation and what the kind of the, the genesis of Pure Athlete and why you feel so strong, strongly about putting so much time into this.
- [01:46]
B
Well, I have four kids, Greg. I got 12, a daughter who's 12, a son who's nine, a daughter who's seven, and a son who's about to be five next week. And as I got into this, when I got done playing after 12 and a half years and doing some announcing, one of the biggest things for me was, man, I started looking at the landscape, right? I'm coaching my kids in T ball and stuff, and I'm like, these parents are whack jobs. I'm like, I mean, screaming at 5 and 6 year old T ball games right at these kids to get the ball in from the outfield. And it's like, no, there's six kids on top of each other. That is funny, right? Like that. I mean, so ultimately it was like anything, same thing you did. I'm sure you saw a need for people to speak out. And not only people to speak out, but people that know what they're talking about. Like, that's the one thing I know. You own it. I own it. Like, we played at the highest level. You know what it takes to get there. Not everybody's going to have that, but everybody should play sports. It's so much fun. It teaches you the greatest life lessons you could have. So as we got into this, man, it was just kind of. We had a few guests on. Jason Campbell was our first guest, you know, and we just kind of kept going and next thing, you know, same thing with y'. All. I'm sure more people start texting, man, I've never looked at it that way or. Thank you. I had this dilemma with my kids and we've done this and it's worked out great. So I just think there's such a need for it.
- [03:07]
A
What is Jeff Francourt like as a youth T ball baseball coach? Because I know what I was like. I'm thankfully, I'm out of the T ball era. But what, what, what is, what, what are you like in that environment?
- [03:19]
B
Well, so again, we're learning, right? When my daughter, the oldest, when I played T ball, dude, I was screaming, you know, run to second, run to second, run to third. And now by my fourth, I'm like, just enjoy it, right? Like they don't understand the game yet. They don't know what they're doing. Let the kids whack it off the tee, you know, and. But I'm a firm believer. Like we have four kids on our team that are six years old and they don't need the tee. So I tell their parents and them, you get five pitches off me, I know I can put the ball on the tee and you can whack it to the outfield and run around the bases. But I'm like, your kid doesn't need that anymore. So they're going to hit off me and if they don't hit, they're going to strike out. But with that being said, the four and five year old, some of these kids that can't do it, put it on the tee let them whack and run, right? They're going to run to first, maybe they'll run to second, maybe they'll run to the outfield after that. But I'm like at the end of the day after a game, I'm going to go home and have a, have my whiskey and ginger ale and watch something on TV and I'm going to be okay whether we win or lose.
- [04:20]
A
All right. I'm glad you brought up throwing a no hitter against five year olds because I think it's like every coach pitches. Every coach, every coach in coach pitch is like worst nightmares. Just striking out the side.
- [04:32]
B
Oh yeah.
- [04:33]
A
So I might give you a controversial baseball take again. I've experienced, let me back up. I've experienced baseball. I played as a kid, stopped playing before I got to high school, so I literally was 8th grade and under baseball player. So I don't sit here as like some baseball maven, but I have experience baseball now with the kids coaching them. We've spent more time in baseball because when I was playing it was my off season so I wasn't around to do flag football that much. I wasn't around in the fall and winter to do basketball, but I was around all spring and summer to do baseball and as they got older and whatnot. So I, I preface all that to say we, when our kids, before they got to Kid pitch at 9U, we did what they called machine pitch and we had this like blue launching like slingshot machine and I was the guy standing in the middle of the field putting the ball and I, man, I could make that thing dance if I knew a kid needed to pull it because I, I needed to get the force off and, and he was a lefty and I could pitch that thing inside to a lefty and pull it to first base and I mean I could manipulate it. I know this kid likes it high low. I, the other leagues in our area did coach pitch. I hate coach pitch baseball for young kids. What say you?
- [05:52]
B
I'm same way man. You know, I 7 and 8 years old especially I hate there's an inning of kid pitch and then it goes to coach pitch. And you want to know why? Some kids quit baseball, including my nine year old son. My nine year old son hates baseball. Greg. Like we shoot hoops, we play football. He's on, he's playing tackle football, he loves lacrosse, we play lacrosse in the spring. He loves it, Hates baseball because he goes, it's boring. I literally sit out here for 45 minutes while kids just throw Balls at that age. I love the machine idea. Me and me and so many guys have talked about this. You want action, right? You want to keep guys involved, learn how to play the game, get ground balls to short, balls to the outfield, balls to second base. And you can't get that from coach pitch. Very few coaches. I played 13 years and it is so hard for me to do this and get the ball where they need to go.
- [06:45]
A
And so I'm so glad you said that. I wasn't sure where you were going to stand. No, I, I've heard a lot of baseball guys be like the machine sucks. They don't see the arm, they don't see and I'm like a six two man throwing lollipops over the plate. That's teaching them what?
- [07:03]
B
Well and that's the other thing. You go look at 5 and 6 year olds come watch how I throw to my kids. I got some, some zip on it because I'm like you throwing the ball this way, they're never going to hit it. And if they do, it's not coming off hard. So I am machine pitch. And then at 9 years old, start your kid pitch. That's when they have to start learning how to do it. But until then, man, I have argued with our parks for years.
- [07:25]
A
Oh well, okay. Well then we're on the same page. We should go on like a, a world tour and get rid of, get rid of coaches on one knee throwing darts does nothing. The machine man, I'll tell you that. I look back on our 8U summer, but the summer before we transition to the kids pitching themselves and you talk about you could go six inning game and there was maybe one or two strikeouts and like the more competitive, you know, the better teams like balls were put in play. There were ground balls, there were guys understanding cuts, there were guys understanding throwing ahead of the runner, no stealing. But like everything was a force out, everything was a ground ball cut. Like they learned. I look back on that eight year and say my kids learned so much because the ball was in play and play, everything was relatively a strike.
- [08:15]
B
Think about this. If I'm, if I'm five or if I'm throwing to a five or six year old and I get five pitches to throw to him, there's going to be two that are going to be horrible pitches. Whether it's high, low, if you get the machine, they might miss the first or second, but if it's in that same area every time, they're going to learn how to start putting the ball in play and then you just keep working from there.
- [08:35]
A
I love it. Well, I'm glad we see eye to eye there, because I, around here, I get a little pushback from people that they, they think the machine needs to go. And I'm like, that was just not my experience. I thought it was great.
- [08:48]
B
Our players still won't do it.
- [08:50]
A
Yeah, it drives me insane. But all right, that's. We'll. We'll put that on our back burner. That's going to be a joint. You think? Pure athlete initiative. Get coaches off the field pitching the five through eight.
- [09:00]
B
Machine only.
- [09:01]
A
Machine only. All right. I want to back up a little bit. You know, so much of what we talk about, you know, on, on both of our shows really, is this idea of like, the early specialization. It's, it's the, like the number one topic people throw around anytime youth sports come up. But I think your story is super interesting, right? Like, here you are, accomplished what you did, professional baseball, major league, 12 plus years. And when you look back on your high school career, like, you could have taken a very different path. Multiple state champion down in Georgia, which is like, that's real ball. Like, for anyone who knows high school football, like, Georgia's real ball. Now you're not winning state titles with some shit team. Like, that's real football. So what made you. When did you understand that, like, baseball was your path? Because you had a lot. My understanding is you had a lot of opportunities to go play college football. And the reality in football is there is a lot of opportunity. The path to football for a lot of people is a little bit easier than the path in baseball.
- [09:58]
B
You know, it's interesting for me, man, I grew up playing football since 7 years old. I was in helmet, shoulder pads at 7. I loved it. I loved the team aspect of football. Obviously, we can all agree practice sucks all week. Like, that's, you know, it is what it is. But the Friday night with your friends, it's still the greatest time I've ever had in sports. You know, I played the World Series in 2010 and we lost to the Giants. I was on the Rangers and it was awesome. But if you ask me right now, my senior year going down to Northside Warner Robins in front of 15,000 and we played Chancey Stuckey, man, and he had rushed for like 150 yards over everybody, and we held him to 72 yards. And I still am like, that's the greatest accomplishment by our defense, like that whole game. But for me, honestly, in football, man, I just Loved playing. I was smart. I had a knack for the ball. I knew where to be, I was fast. I mean, I ran a 4, 46 back in the day coming out. So, you know, I committed to go to Clemson to play football. And Tommy Bowden was the coach, and I was all in. And I got drafted in the first round by the Braves, of course, and I grew up in Atlanta. So your hometown team, man. And I always laugh about this now because, you know, Tommy kept calling me, are you coming? Are you not? Because back then, you know, once you step foot on campus, you were done. Like, if I enrolled in a class, step foot in a classroom at Clemson for three years, I had to go play college baseball and football, whatever that looked like. And so I was about four days away, and finally the Braves signed me. And Tommy Bowen, I called him and I said, you know, the braves gave me 2.2 million reasons not to come to Clemson. And he started laughing. He's like, son, I wouldn't let you step on this campus. He's like, go. Go realize your dream playing baseball. And I always knew baseball was number one. I just. I felt like that was my path. But you know this, man, when you're just sophomore and junior in high school and all of a sudden you start getting visits from Joe Paterno and Bobby Bout and stuff, like, it's like, holy crap, this is real. And so, you know, I'd like to say I got carried away because I'm like, this is so cool. But the good news was, man, I had a great mom and dad and they loved me. I mean, I tell people this all the time. I stopped playing baseball July 1st every year. So July 1st to July 10th, we went on a 10 day family vacation. I had an older brother, older sister, and my mom always said, that is my 10 days. I get 10 days a year with all y'. All. We're going. I don't care what sports are being done, we're gone. If that means you have to sit, you sit. And then when I got home on July 10, I would go straight into the weight room, start lifting and getting ready for two days at the end of July for football. And I did not touch a baseball bat. All. All fall. Literally never. All these showcases that these kids go to, all these things I did not. Like, my dad was like, we're doing high school football on Saturday or Friday. Saturday we did yard work and college football. Sunday we went to church and watched the NFL. And like, that was our weekends. And I look back and I'm So glad that my mom and dad protected that time. Instead of playing on a Friday night football game, getting on a plane Saturday to go to Jupiter or wherever the tournament was. And then you're not even in baseball shape, right? Like I'm going out there throwing, doing these things. I wouldn't even been ready. So you know, I loved my experience. I had great friends. My five, six best friends are still all on my baseball and high school football team. We went to Mexico to celebrate our 40th last year and all we did was sit in the pool and drink margaritas and tell the same stories that we've been telling for 22 years and that.
- [13:36]
A
But everything you just said is like what I preach. We work closely over at our kids school here in Charlotte and obviously more with, with the football program. We coach the middle school team and whatnot. But like there are so many great athletes. We have a fantastic baseball program. We have kids drafted. Our pitcher last year went to wake. Like we got a, a senior pitcher this year going to NC State. Like we got real baseball players at our school.
- [14:00]
B
You got dogs over there.
- [14:01]
A
We got real baseball players. Small little Christian school. So we don't have a million kids in the school, 100 kids a class, but none of the, none of them play football. And I, and I, I bust their chops all the time. I actually saw a couple of them out at the field yesterday working out with our strength coach at the end of our football practice. And I'm, and I, I always, they kind of see me and they kind of like put their head down and I don't say it to be like mean. I say it in, in spirit. I'm like guys, do you understand how good of athletes you are and how much you would enjoy this and how much you could contribute to the team and just get a break and recharge. And I promise you when you step back onto the baseball in, back in the batting cage in November as opposed to October. Yep, you're going to be fine. It's like so hearing you say it. I asked this question though as devil advocate, like you were an elite athlete, right? The opportunity to be drafted in the first round and go play college football at Clemson, that is the very, that is the vast minority of high school kids. So I asked this like to the parents out there whose kid is not that high, high level elite athlete and the time on task, especially in a sport like baseball is their only chance of making the Charlotte Christian football baseball team or the whatever team down in Atlanta. Like some of these really competitive teams. If I don't do it all year round, I'm not going to be able to keep up. What would you say to those people who give that reason for why they just pick one sport?
- [15:30]
B
So this would be my argument, right? And you know this because of how good you were in football. So we had guys on our baseball team that played year round in high school. They didn't play football. You know, we probably had seven or eight guys doing both sports and they played travel ball all through the fall and we would step back in, in January in the cages, and by two weeks, I was 10 times better than every one of these kids that had played all fall. And so my, my devil's advocate with that to be Greg, you either have it or you don't. Like, I find it hard to believe that kids could play year round and that's the only way I can go play baseball at NC State, right? Like, I just, I'm like, there's kids that are either going to be really good and you can go to that next level or there's going to be kids. And maybe there's a kid every once in a while that has to work, work, work, work and can do it. But I just find too, like, what about, what about the memories you want to look back from? You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like you go to a high school, go out there and you can say, man, those two kids have a chance to play in the NFL. Dad, that kid or one of those two kids, they got a chance to maybe get drafted and make their way. Everybody else is just going to be great high school players. And that's okay. There's, which is great, which is, that's what I'm saying.
- [16:47]
A
That's the whole idea.
- [16:49]
B
So that's my, that's what I fight back, is like, usually if you, if you're smart enough as a parent, you can look at your kid, if you truly look at your kid and don't have blinders on and all those things and say, you know what, my kid has a legit chance. And my dad always says, like, I knew you were a great baseball player. But going into my senior year, I went on the USA trials. I made the team. We went to Cuba for three weeks. I was on the US Junior national team. We lost to Cuba in the championship two to one. It was incredible. Fidel Castro was sitting right behind home plate. Like, it was amazing down there. And I got home and that was the first time, first time I ever heard my dad say, you know, I think you got a chance at this thing that was going into my senior year, not in eighth grade, not in even ninth or 10th grade. Like, he knew I was a great high school player, but I had never really stacked up against the rest of the country. And so that was like what I always say now that these kids in eighth grade, you got. I just don't buy that, man. I don't buy it. I believe that you can go play football for five months, and I believe you can go play baseball for five months and be really good. Now, you might have to do extra work, right? Like you might have to go in December and January, over Christmas, like I did with my dad, and hit in the cages and get yourself ready. But if, if you're prepared to do that work, to both play both sports. And you said something on our podcast two weeks ago that I think we've played it 10 times already, and it resonates so good with me. If you have a high school coach telling you you can only play one sport, run for the hills, man. Like, that is not your coach.
- [18:27]
A
This episode of you think is brought to you by Academy Camps, a camp for today's athlete. To learn more, I spoke with the camp's executive director, Mike Murillo. Just for people that don't know, just kind of give us a little background on what, what exactly is Academy Camps?
- [18:41]
C
Yeah. So we are a sleepaway camp experience. We offer one week and two week sessions. We have a real focus on obviously developing young athletes. What makes us pretty unique though, is we create a really well rounded experience. So the way we talk about it is half the day you're getting better at the sport you love. The other half a day, you still get to be a kid. At camp, we offer 12 different sports. Our campers come in and say, you know what, baseball is a sport that I really want to improve in this summer. So they will train twice a day every day for about an hour and a half in each session with our professional coaches and the other athletes that are there for baseball. But then the second half of the day, which to be honest, makes up another, you know, eight or nine hours a day, they get to choose from lots of different other activities. Other sports we get into mindset development, wellness, obvious strength and conditioning. But depending on which campus you're on, you can also go fishing or you can do wall climbing or ropes course. And we get into traditional camp stuff like color wars, which is actually a great platform to learn how to be a teammate. Where we're competing as an Entire camp against each other. So it really is about bringing those two worlds together. Sports specific camp and a traditional, traditional sleepaway camp. You know, we meet our athletes wherever they are in their journey as a young athlete. So, you know, if you want to come in and say, I played lacrosse for a year and I love it and I want to get better, you know, absolutely. Come to academy camps. If you've been a soccer player playing at the highest academy level and you've got aspirations for college, absolutely. Come to academy camps. You know, we don't in any way kind of segment our athletes in that way. What that also means is that our coaches have experience in coaching that full spectrum.
- [20:27]
A
I think so much of this generation's kids are so worried about the outcome, right. I want to go to college, I want to play varsity, I want to be a pro, like, whatever. That the, the ultimate end goal of the journey is where all the attention is. And what we're seeing, not only here locally, that we see with our own two eyes, but it's going on around the country, is we got kids that are going to graduate from high school and played at three different high schools and five different travel ball teams, and they're going to go to three different colleges. And then one day, unless they become the world Series MVP and unless they go on to have like an incredible professional career in whatever sport, the only thing you have left are those core memories. The only thing you have left is that Friday night game with your buddies that you can talk about, you know, in the hot tub at down in Mexico, like that's all you're gonna have. But if we don't focus on creating those core experiences and those core memories, you're pinning the entire journey on the outcome being the ultimate desired outcome, which is to be a professional athlete. And the likelihood of that happening is so small that for 99 plus percentage of these kids taking on this journey in today's environment, they're not going to be pros, they're not going to have high school experiences, they're not going to have great memories with their friends. They're going to go to multiple different high schools, play for a million travel ball teams, chase this dream, and if the dream doesn't realize, you look back and you say, for what?
- [21:53]
B
Yep.
- [21:54]
A
If I never played, if I never earned a dollar in the NFL, I had a wonderful. I have 500 memories playing, playing high school and college sports before I ever made a scent that if I never made it to the NFL and my career ended after college, I would have Had a lifetime of memories given to me by football. And I could. I'd be the guy sitting there reminiscing about our state championship as a high school. Could you imagine how amazing it was we played in front of 5,000 people. It was an amazing memory at the time. It's all I ever dreamed of. Like, I fear that our kids are missing out on those things.
- [22:30]
B
Absolutely. And the team aspect and the relationships. And like you said, man. And this is what I get. I don't know if you get this. I get this a lot from parents, but my kid's different. My kids built different. And I'm like, get the hell out of here with that. Okay. Like, your kid's not Bryce Harper. Your kid. I mean, I hope they are for your sake. Right? Like, I hope they are. But at the end of the day, what's the main goal? You're trying to get out of all this stuff? And. And I talk. You know, I had a great Talk with Brian McCann. You know, he talks. He wanted me to tell you know, that their team did play against him. They walked you off on a pass ball or thrown a ball? I think y' all threw a ball away.
- [23:10]
A
We tried to. We had their kid back off. Guess who. Guess who the kid was at. Guess who the pitcher was.
- [23:16]
B
Your son.
- [23:19]
A
So I gotta tell you this story.
- [23:21]
B
Y' all tried to pick up.
- [23:23]
A
The kid was. We had him. So. So here's what happened. So the count was like 1 and 1 or 2 and 1. So I'm like, all right, if we don't throw a strike here and we fall behind, I'm gonna try to backpick this kid and end the game.
- [23:36]
B
Yeah.
- [23:37]
A
So it's like the third or fourth. I can't remember the exact count, but it was like the third or fourth pitch of the account. It might have been like, two, one, three, one, something like that. We come set, we check, he lifts. There's. We had. Oh, no. We had thrown a breaking ball in the dirt, and our. Our catcher blocked it. So they were trying to get good. Dirtball reads to steal home to tie the game. That's what it was. We lift, he steps. The kid starts going home. He's caught. He's scrambling back to the bag. He's out by five feet. We throw the ball over the third baseman's head. The fence was super close to the. To the third baseline. So the angle of the throw hits the fence and ricochets into left field.
- [24:25]
B
Yeah.
- [24:25]
A
And the kid from second and third both score, and we lost. He told Me, I then had to get in my car and drive five hours home saying, why did I try to backpick that kid? Just strike him out.
- [24:37]
B
When he told me that story, man, I was dying laughing just seeing you two out there and. But you know, so. So you're the same way you coach. Same like Brian McCann. His kids are all in seventh grade and he's like, I tell these parents your kids are all great baseball players. I In the next three years they might make a massive jump. But Brian gets beat up down here because he does not play fall ball. He refuses. His kid plays basketball and he plays flag football. And he's like, they need a break. And it's so funny that these parents keep pushing back on him, pushing back on him. But you know, January through July to the start, August, those kids are playing baseball all the time. Brian's like, they need a break. They need a break. And you know, but parents don't buy into that. And I don't know why.
- [25:22]
A
Well, and what we feel, you know, coaching this team now for the last couple years and we're. We are like a typical. We're tra. We are a travel baseball team. Like we will go play in Atlanta, we will go play in Florida. Like we're compet. We'll no go. We'll never go win those big events. But like we're very competitive. Six of our 12 kids go to my kids school, which is awesome. So like we are. We practice together. We don't bring in kids on the weekends. Like we are a true Charlotte based travel baseball team.
- [25:51]
B
Travel team. Yeah.
- [25:52]
A
But we're good. Like we've got some good kids and we can go hold our own with teams from different areas and win some, lose some, but we're competitive. The problem what I feel then. And so I understand where McCann's coming from, which by the way is my mom's made a name. I wonder if we're related.
- [26:06]
B
Might be.
- [26:08]
A
So what I. The pressure that I and my. I feel it myself now for five years doing this and all the other guys that I know in town that coach the same age is like the fear is if you don't do it, your kids are going to go play for somebody else. So it's like this. You want to keep your team together and you want to give your families that are trusting you like a good experience. Right. We're making this transition to the big field now. All of our kids come February are going to have to go try out for a very good middle school team at our kids School, like, we got to get them on the big field. We're going to play a 14U tournament so they swing BB core bats here in a couple weeks. Like if we went. And then the other side is like, if I went this whole fall and said, you know, we're not going to give your kids an acclimation to the big field BB core bats, get them on 60, 90 so they have a chance to make the team and contribute for school in a couple months, the co parents are going to say, that's fine, we're going to go play for another team. And then maybe they don't come back in the spring when school ball is over. Like, that's what we're all living. And you end up doing things you probably don't want to do, but you're playing the game because you want to. You want to go have a great summer next year and you want to keep your team intact.
- [27:16]
B
Well, no doubt, but I think it's no different. Think about this like with your coach and staff for your football team. I want my son playing for you guys. Like the way you do it, the way. And I watch, you know, I've been to watch Colt, Brian's son, play, like the way Brian coaches those kids runs it like more of a, you know, he expects a lot. Kind of like y' all doing. Putting in pickup plays, putting things that you're going to need for the next level. My argument to the parents were, do you want to go find another team where you don't really know anybody yet or this? Or do you want to play for Brian McCann who knows what it takes to play at those levels and can push your kid in the intangibles, push your kid in the right way. Right. Like taking care of their arm difference. So, I mean, it's a tough conversation. I totally get it, man. It's. We're playing three softball tournaments in the. In the fall here with my daughter softball team. Same kind of reason. If you it was up to me, my ass would be on the couch on Saturdays watching college football and watching my Clemson Tigers maybe get a win one of these days. But, you know, that's kind of where we're at.
- [28:16]
A
Yeah, well, we could go on and on about this, but I do want to change topics here a little bit. Obviously, MLB baseball has started, so y. One of the coolest things about postseason sports is like, you start now that the teams have kind of been kind of filter down. You hear so many great stories. You start learning more about the players, at least for someone like myself, who's just like an avid fan. I, I don't follow any particular team closely. If there's a national game on, I watch it. I watched the Dodgers last night just have home run derby against Reds. Unbelievable. So, like, I'm a baseball fan in that regard. But I, I don't know the backstory of all these guys. I don't know where they were drafted or what they do. But all of a sudden these stories start coming out where you learn about these guys. And I just marvel at everything we're talking about. It's like, all right, this guy's pitching and you hear about his life story and he didn't start, you know, he wasn't even, you know, Skeen's not even a pitcher until he's in college. And meanwhile, we got these kids now that are POS at 10. You know, I just, I marvel at what we hear about the best of the best. And I sit there on the couch and I'm like, yeah, this is what we're trying to tell everybody, but no one will listen.
- [29:23]
B
Well, think about this. Tarek Skubal, probably the best pitcher in baseball right now, strikes out 14 in the playoffs yesterday. He had one Division 1 scholarship out of high school. One. So how does.
- [29:34]
A
All right, so let's, let's dive into this. You know, the baseball journey a lot more than I do. Like how explain to our listeners, like how that happens, like every once in a while we get it in football. But like, if you look at first round draft picks in football, they typically were high, especially the top guys. Like they were pretty highly recruited out of high school. Like, it's not, it's usually pretty connected. Why is the baseball journey so different?
- [29:59]
B
Because I think so much in baseball is a skill set, right? It's developing. Like Chris Sale, one of my great friends, per example, he threw 86, 87 out of high school and went to Florida, Gulf coast. They put £25 on him. They got him the right mechanics, right delivery. Next thing you know, he's pumping 96. And I just think some of these kids that might not, you know, you listen to Chris Sale, he didn't play baseball year round, right? So like you talk about, there are kids that are playing at East Cobb in some of these places where they're playing non stop, they're probably going to have better mechanics, they're probably going to have better footwork, a lot of this stuff. But you have these raw guys. That's what baseball scouts loved about me. Greg was, I was a five month Baseball guy. And they saw my talent and they're like, holy crap, man. If we can get him on a baseball field for 10 to 11 months out of the year between instructional league, spring training, all that stuff, like this kid hasn't hit his ceiling yet.
- [31:01]
A
And it's funny you say it's funny you say that though. Not interrupt you, but it's funny you say that because I've always said we're creating better young athletes, but we're not creating better long term players in the sport. They're just getting to their ceiling.
- [31:13]
B
Earlier, Dr. Andrews told me two years ago, I saw him at the playoffs and he did Tommy John on 312 year olds. And he said, I looked at those parents and I said, shame on y'. All. This is on you. You let your kid continue to throw asinine number of pitches and never have a break and do this. And so my point, I always say, Max Scherzer, one of the greatest pitchers of our generation, go, go look at him in college, he didn't log nine innings every Friday night in the minor leagues. He didn't throw an asinine number of innings. Save your bullets. Your arm only has so many bullets in it. At some point it's going to throw. And you talk about Skeens, Skeens sitting there, Spencer Schwellenbach with the Braves right now. He was a freaking shortstop at University of Nebraska. And he's one of the, if he didn't get hurt this year, he probably would have been top five Cy Young. So again, that's where I, I talk about, like, let the journey happen, man. Like, if your kid's good, keep pushing them to work, man. That's what I tell these parents more than I got to go to this hitting lesson. You know what I do with my daughter? I tell her, as long as I'll take you to your hitting lesson. As long as three days a week you have 50 cuts off the tee in the backyard. We got a little cage thing. You show me you'll do that, I'll take you to your hitting lesson. I'll pay for you, no problem. But if you think you're not going to do crap at home and then I'm going to take you to a hitting lesson and you're going to show up on Saturday. And I heard you say something on our podcast that I love when you talked about, if my kid's not working and they go out and have success, I hate it because it justifies everything we go against. So last year, my daughter didn't do Crap. For two weeks before travel ball tournament, she'd had a really good two tournaments. So she went out there and laid an egg. She sucked. So what did I do during bracket play, she hit second. I moved her ass to seventh in the lineup, pissed her off and she had a bat. She, she didn't do any better in those two games. We get in the car on the way home, I didn't say a word, I'm just driving. And she kind of asked me about it and I said, did you do anything these last two weeks? And nope, nope. And I was out of town calling games. So. But, but my wife, we have it all set up. I mean we got, you know, we, we can get you to where you need to go. Put it that way, that will never be a problem. And the next week she, she went and hit three times. She took ground ball, she did this. And what happened on Saturday, she had a great tournament. And I'm like, what do you think's gonna happen? So that's what I tell these parents. And you know this with your kids, if you work, you will get better. How much better, who knows? That depends what God gives you, talent wise, what you have. But if you work, you'll get better. But at the same time, if you're not willing to put that work in unless you're the freakish of freakish athletes, you're not going to get to where you want to be.
- [33:58]
A
More with Jeff Francoer in just a second. But first, a quick word from today's sponsor, Academy Camps. To give you a sense of the top tier coaching at the camp, we sat down with their executive director of soccer, Rick Warren.
- [34:10]
B
My name is Rick Warren.
- [34:12]
D
I am the director of soccer here at Academy Camp. Just love teaching kids the game. This is a game I love to play. You know, I've played for most of my entire life. And so being able to teach it to these kids that are eager and love the game as well and to also, you know, share that passion with them on in the summertime and also seeing them grow each day is unique in itself like their ability and the understanding the tactical part of the game and when I explain it to them and then doing the technical stuff that they need to do as well. So I think that just watching and there's not just a high level set of kids right? There is level of all different levels. But we try to break it down where we are able to touch each kid at the level that they are and more about working together to get better and helping each other and caring about each person that is there. It's just a friendship that develops within a week.
- [35:18]
A
We have a batting cage in our basement that we built in our. Like literally a full. Not a full, but like a good half cage. You can front toss. We can do a little junior hack attack. Like it's a cage. And I always tell the kids, I say to walk by, to go play video games, you have to walk by the gym slash batting cage. So, yep, that's on you, man. There's no excuse. There's no. It's raining, it's. You have no excuse. You can be as good as you want to be. So I'm with you on that. Give it, give us who, who are you watching in the playoffs? Like, so I work with Joe Davis, who obviously calls the games with Fox. He'll call the World Series, the AL championship, you know, all the, A lot of the AL stuff. Like, so I hear from him, he's like, weird year. He's like pulling for certain teams. The other night we're at dinner in Ireland and he's got games set up and he's like, I need the Yankees to win, the Rays to lose. And he's doing all this like, ma math because we don't want fo. We don't want the Yankees and the Red Sox to play each other in the wild card because one gets. And I'm like, holy shit. Like, there's a lot going on. So like, give it. Give us an idea of like, who you're watching in the playoffs, what are.
- [36:21]
B
The matchups in football? Football rules, right? So whether you're doing Cleveland and Cincinnati, right. And not trying to make fun of them, but whether you're doing that smaller markets, they're still going to get massive rules ratings in baseball, it's not that way. You know, I did Cleveland and Detroit last year in the alds. Five games. It was an incredible series, but still they want the big market. So I'll be in Philadelphia this Saturday night for game one. Me and Brian Anderson will be on the call there. And you know, I sit here and I love the Reds, right? I love Terry Francona. Dude, Terry Francona is like a dream coach for any guy. Like, you can't play for him. But I, I find myself like, dude, getting the chance to do the Dodgers, Phillies in a five game series, like, like that'll be. And so then you have the Cubs right there playing the Padres. And I love the Padres, but it's like getting a Cubs brewers, they hate each other. They're 70 miles. So that's the funny thing, like Fox for Joe Davis, him and Smoltzy, like, there's no doubt they're going to end up with Seattle. And some of which are great stories. Montreal, but ratings don't love them, you know, and. And it is what it is. I love storylines. I don't care as much about the ratings. I do want to see Philly in the Dodgers, though, personally, because I, I think the Reds have been an incredible story. Like, for them to get to the playoffs is amazing. But who doesn't want to see first pitch of the nlds, Christopher Sanchez throwing a sinker in on Shohei Ohtani. Like, that's, that's what you live for.
- [37:49]
A
He hit that second home run last night. God, a mile.
- [37:53]
B
So in the third inning, put it this way, because me and Brian Anderson are both big golfers. So we got game one Saturday night. Sunday we'll be at the cricket club in Philly because we have an off day, right. And then we do Monday. And so we're trying to figure out if it's L. A, we're going to go play probably Bel Air on Tuesday. Out in L. A, who's living better than you?
- [38:12]
A
Baseball.
- [38:13]
B
It is great. We get baseball.
- [38:15]
A
Guys are living the dream. I was on a 24 hour character.
- [38:18]
B
Home from Dublin, Ireland, which you called a great game, by the way. I, I did enjoy that. But, but. So we're sitting in the fourth inning last night and all of a sudden we start texting each other and we're like, should we go ahead and book our flights, have our travel people from Philly to Dodgers? Because I mean, they just. That offense is incredible too.
- [38:35]
A
It's. I mean, and the Red. I mean, Reds threw a big time arm. I. I don't know how you navigate. And then Blake Snell was incredible.
- [38:43]
B
Oh, he. That. But that's where the Dodgers had this whole thing. Snow didn't.
- [38:47]
A
They have a bunch of pitching issues. So I get a bunch of Dodgers, right. I feel like I know the Dodgers a lot because obviously Joe.
- [38:54]
B
Exactly. You hear about it all the time.
- [38:55]
A
You know, he called it every game. So, like, they kind of weathered some issues though, all year, and now they're just kind of getting hot at the end, right?
- [39:02]
B
Oh, they are. But they had the pitching. They were hurt. Snell missed half the year. Ohtani didn't start pitching until later in the year. And I'll tell you this, man, what Ohtani is doing is he could go down as one of the greatest to ever play. And I'm not just saying baseball but in sports, to be able to do that of high of a level in two things. It's what I tell. I tell my kids, my son. We were watching the game last night, the first three innings for. I made him go to bed. But I said, like, you're watching something that might never happen again or it's going to be a long time till it does.
- [39:39]
A
It's unbelievable. Who's your, who's your mvp?
- [39:43]
B
Ohtani. I love Schwaber. I love what Schwaber does. But Ohtani is the mvp. And then the other one man, like I was all about the big dumper, right? Like he's got.
- [39:55]
A
So I'm great, I think Cal Raleigh.
- [39:57]
B
But I will tell you this. I did the Yankees two Tuesdays ago, and our stat guy laid out all this stuff for me, and it was like, if Aaron Judge loses 200 points on his OPS, he's Cal Raleigh. If Cal Raleigh loses 200 points on his OPS, He's. I'm not going to throw anybody.
- [40:20]
A
But he's. Let me ask you this. In the base.
- [40:23]
B
Yeah.
- [40:24]
A
How much value does his defensive position? Does it. Does it make up for. I know his batting average is what, 2:40 or. That's the knock on him, right? Is like he's a home run guy. Not a high percentage. But does him playing not one of the most vital defensive positions not move the needle more than a corner outfielder?
- [40:43]
B
100%? I think it does. And I think that will be valued in it. I. If they gave it to Cal Raleigh, you would not hear one complaint from me. But I also am like, the whole, the whole thing, like with the NBA, you know, and Jokic the Joker, it's like, do people get tired of the same guy? And that could happen with Judge. It could be like, hey, this guy's had a spectacular year. But, you know, I do, hey, I give him points for the name the Big Dumper. I mean, might be the nickname in sports. Sports.
- [41:12]
A
When did the mvp, or maybe it's always been this way. So again, educate me and all of us if this has been the case. But, like, when has the MVP always gone to, like, whoever's leading the. The league in home runs, like, it feels like it's become a home run. And again, I know the value of home runs. I know the emphasis.
- [41:33]
B
The steroid era kind of took over, right when that whole Maguire and Sosa, like the, the. The numbers of home runs just got so high that I think people are like, good lord, you had 65 home runs, you got to be the MVP right, but that's what, like, but that's what makes Judge so interesting. Dude, he's hitting 3:20. Like, he's not just hitting home runs. Yeah, he's hitting.320.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah.
- [41:57]
B
And that's, that's what I, it's like with Schwarber. Right. I love Schwaber, man, because Ohtani is a DH2, but Schwarber had 238. Ohtani at.290, like, he's still a complete hitter. Yeah. You see the home runs, but you're getting singles the other way too.
- [42:11]
A
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's no different than football. It's really. The MVP race has really just turned into a quarterback.
- [42:16]
B
Quarterback. Absolutely.
- [42:17]
A
What's the. What's the best quarterback on the team that is maybe doesn't have the most wins, but like, they're at least in the ballpark of having the most wins. Who has the best quarterbacks of that group?
- [42:28]
B
You're the mvp, Heisman, Heisman's the same.
- [42:31]
A
I get it.
- [42:31]
B
Who's the best quarterback? You know, it's, it's almost and then.
- [42:35]
A
But then again, you look at last year with, with, with Travis Hunter and it's like they valued. They did multiple ways to impact the game and I guess so. I, it comes back to my thought on baseball. Like, yes, I understand home runs have an exponential more importance in the way we value baseball today. I get all of that, but like, I don't know. I value a guy that's also getting behind the dish for a million games and blocking balls and calling pitches and managing the game and his legs, he's like, he's, he's grinding day in and day out and getting up to the plate and hitting 60 home runs. Like, I just value. Maybe it's the tight end in me where, like, I value guys who might not be like. And we're like, you're good enough at a lot of different things to bring incredible value if we, if we hand picked one particular spot. Maybe you're not the best at one thing. So maybe I just like, that's my bias kind of connecting with guys. But I just think it's remarkable what he's able to do at a position.
- [43:36]
B
Where, yeah, you take him out of that lineup, they might not even make the playoffs. Right. Like, that's how I value it. To most valuable player to your team. If you take Aaron Judge out of the Yankees lineup, yes, they're not going to be as good, but I still think they're a playoff team.
- [43:52]
A
Yeah, no, that, that's Fair. And again, your, your perspective is a lot better than mine. Last thing I want to end with. And I'm gonna let you go. This has been. I could shoot the shit with you all day about all this.
- [44:00]
B
Oh yeah.
- [44:01]
A
Last thing I want to ask you. I gotta ask this question and I'll give you what I my answer after I hear your answer. You're the, you're the youth sports czar of the day. You get the magic wand and you get to implement any rule you want. And it has to be abided all across the land in all sports. What is.
- [44:22]
B
Will probably never happen, but it would be. You have to play two sports whether you like it or not. You would, you would, you would have to have some time off. I don't know if you just saw college baseball and MLB put a rule in even at the youth level. Did you see this last week where scouts and front office, there's a two month shutdown after the, after the perfect game, whatever ends at the end of October, all the way through January. I love what you said to go back to it. We have better athletes now at a younger age. They're stronger, they're faster, they got better knowledge of the game. But I don't think it's showing in the, in the later terms. And I'll tell you this. David Stearns, the GM of the, of the New York Mets, who I think is phenomenal, obviously the Mets choked this year. But with that being said, he told me there's never been a bigger separation right now of minor league baseball to the big leagues. He said there's never been. And I think it's all these kids, what you're saying are not developing later, whether injuries, burnout, any of that stuff. So I would make kids play too. I don't care if you suck at the other sport. Right.
- [45:32]
A
Just be on the team.
- [45:33]
B
Be on the team and grind.
- [45:37]
A
So I, so I got asked this question. I actually cheated it. I gave two. I said every, I said every kid has to play two sports.
- [45:44]
B
Yep.
- [45:45]
A
So we're in line. And I said, you're not. I said I would make it a rule that you cannot run sanctioned events outside of your season. You can't run a basketball tournament in, you know, the fall or, you know, the spring. You can't run a baseball tournament in October. You can't run a football tournament in April. Like, you can only run sanctioned competition events now you want to practice, you want to train, by all means, there can be no competition events. Sanctioned events put on by organizations outside of your Season.
- [46:23]
B
I love it. I think it's so great. And you know what, man? I'll finish with a story. I got a neighbor that lives down the street and they got a seventh grade boy and he loves football and baseball like I did. Obsessed with it. Talk to him all the time. Last year he broke his. Broke his leg playing football. Went up, someone landed on him, broke his fibula. It's going to happen, right? Well, his mom didn't want him to play football this year, was not going to let him. And I went to her and I was like, do you see the joy that that brings your son when he's out there playing football with his buddies? And thank God they let him play. Dude, he is balling out. He's got like four picks, couple picks, six. He's doing this and he's not swinging the baseball bat. His arm's not being used. He's a great catcher. And my point to this is we need more parents to listen to these things, listen to their kids. Like you said, just play some sports. And then when you get to that level, the competition and the scouts and the, and the people, they'll let you know when it's right. No one's signing your kid in eighth grade. These coaches in college now don't even know where the hell they're going to be in four years. Let's be honest, they're not looking at an eighth grader. So I couldn't agree more. And I'll just say, dude, I appreciate what you all are doing. Love watching what you're doing. And there needs to be more of this. You know Matt Ryan, I try to get him on our podcast for like six months. He's a good buddy of mine. We golf together. Right when he got done retired, he's like, I'll get there, I'll get there. And he went to coaches, twin boys and T ball. And he called me like two days later. He's like, I'm freaking coming on Yalls podcast. He's like, I. I gotta say my piece. And there's more people that want to talk like we are, that are not doing it. So I applaud you for what you do, man. I know you're busy too. Tons of kids, your job. But you know what's important too.
- [48:05]
A
Well, Jeff, I appreciate you, man. Everything you're doing. Have enjoy. I mean, I don't know if I want to say enjoy the playoffs or just enjoy what golf tournament, what golf courses you get to play. I'm not sure which one you're more excited about. Um, but I respect it. I'm jealous we don't golf on our trip. So I'm super. Got a lot of hate coming from this side here. But, dude, really appreciate your perspective. Everything you've been through, what you guys do at Pure Athlete, man, is. Is awesome. I look forward to finding more ways that we can collaborate and have a lot more of these discussions moving forward, man. Appreciate you joining us.
- [48:37]
B
Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it, man.
- [48:38]
A
A special thank you to Academy Camps for sponsoring today's episode. To learn more, visit academycamps.com before we wrap up, let's hear from someone who's experienced camp firsthand.
- [48:49]
E
My name is Harrison Zimmer. I'm from Rye, New York, and I just attended Academy Camps for the first time in the summer of 2024. Definitely went in trying to, like, build up my confidence and work on my technique more, which I definitely accomplished because after that, going to my high school season, I definitely felt like I could be on the ball more dribble and ended up being successful for me as I made my varsity team. I definitely felt like Academy Camps helped me a lot to, like, discover my ability on the ball. Definitely an experience very unique and that probably they haven't experienced before with the food and the nutrients and then having, like, a blast with, like, your friends. Made a lot of friends. I've kept in touch with a few and trying to, like, figure out to go this year, like, what session and kind of, like organizing that just so we can be together again. I think you should come to Academy Camps because it gives you a chance to create new friends and new memories.
- [49:48]
A
Thanks again to Academy Camps for sponsoring this week's episode. We'll catch you again next week right here on you think.