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Youth Inc. with Greg Olsen
Miracle on Ice Goalie Jim Craig on What USA Hockey Needs to Win Gold
00:26:06
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- [00:00]
A
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode here on Youth Inc. A very timely episode. I know if you're like me, you're sitting around glued every night to the Olympics. And you know, I cheer for every American. I'm learning curling. I'm learning free slope skiing. But I think the one thing we all don't miss a minute of is our USA Hockey team, the men's and women's. Well, today's guest, Jim Craig, a part of maybe the most famous American sports team in history. The 1980 Miracle on Ice Olympic hockey team defeated the Soviets. That we're going to get into that whole story. But, Jim, I just appreciate you joining us here on you think to talk all things youth sports and Olympics and hockey and cover it all.
- [00:43]
B
Greg, it's my pleasure. I love your platform. I love what you do for the parents and the kids and just not a podcast. It's an important podcast.
- [00:51]
A
Well, obviously, we're going to talk Olympics. We're going to talk Miracle on ice. We're going to talk one of the greatest moments in American sports history. But I want to start at the beginning, right? I want to even get before you're at Boston University and you win the Natty and before you're a Pro, before the 1980 Lake Placid Games. I want to go back to the beginning, give us a sense of, like, what did youth sports look like in your time in your family? And just kind of take us back to those moments before. Before you became famous.
- [01:20]
B
You know, to me, it's. It's always been about community, right? And so the funny story is I'm skating on the ponds in the back of our house, and the mailman sees me skating and. And he delivers mail to my mother and says, you know, your son's a really good skater. You should get him in Eastern Junior Hockey League. You don't know what you don't know, right? So we don't know the goalies, the most expensive position. You have to get equipment. You have to get rides to these things at really crazy hours. And so community comes in, right? And so neighbors figure out how to get equipment, right? Get me to and from. You know, my mother and my family do the very best. And so I always tell people, you are what your dreams are, right? And I really think too many parents and coaches don't let people explore those dreams, right? They tell them way too young that they're not. Not good enough, right. In my journey, you know, it was really about the love of playing the game and the commitment you make to a team when it's time to be part of it. And the sacrifices. When I had an opportunity, it was an opportunity. It wasn't a sacrifice. The sacrifice was always made by someone else. You know, my three dreams as a young boy, I mean, a young boy who's laying in front of the Olympics, where I wanted to get a full scholarship to college. I wanted to play for our country and I wanted to play in the national hockey. Now those are my dreams, right? And they're pretty crazy dreams, right? Here I am, I'm a senior in high school. I'm an altar boy. Father Buckley says, hey, I'm going to bring you in to see the coach at Boston College. So I walk into Boston College and I meet Coach Zavaski. There's only one problem. Our team has won everything. We've won states. You know, I've been, you know, on all scholastic, but I'm five foot three, I weigh 130 pounds as a senior.
- [03:09]
A
And you're playing goalie?
- [03:10]
B
I'm playing goalie.
- [03:11]
A
How'd you become the goalie?
- [03:12]
B
I'll tell you why. My parents were spending a lot of money and the goalie was supposed to get the equipment for nothing because it was, you know, league, you know, like a town league. And they played the whole game. So I thought I would get the most amount of money. You know, one of the things I think kids have to understand is you got to embrace challenges, right? Right. You can't hide from them. And if you're going to be something, it doesn't matter if it's a sport or anything else. You have to kind of embrace the challenge. I go in and get my goalie mast fix. It's by Ernie Higgins. He did all the pros at the time, and his son was a really good goalie who was an all American at Boston College and had just played pro and he had just retired. And he saw me there, he said, hey, Jimmy, where are you going to college? And I said, neil, I don't know. He goes, how would you like to come join me? Where are you coaching? And he goes, mass Associate Community College. I go, that's in Brockton. And he looked at me and. And he says, if you don't think this is the greatest opportunity you have ever had, I don't even want you to come. When will I ever get a guy that coaches at my position this low at the college level? This is a great opportunity for me. We were playing in a national junior college championship game, and he said, jimmy, I've Got two scouts here, one's from Boston University and one's from Providence College. If you play well, right, you have an opportunity. And we won a national junior college championship. And Jack Parker at BU offered me a scholarship. I didn't even start until I was 12, right. So I really believe passion is a big deal.
- [04:39]
A
Well, there's so many great kind of lessons that I think are so relevant to today's journeys. One being it's not a race to 12, right? We talk about that with a lot of our guests and we talk about with a lot of our experts. I think we've created a society in sport, all different sports, where if you haven't figured out your path by 12 years old, you're almost viewed as being late to the party, which is incredibly dumb.
- [05:02]
B
Greg. It's not even sport anymore. They've tried to turn it into a business, right? And so, you know, to me, the greatest mentors were dads who played a sport, who gave up their time, who did it for nothing, who figured out a way to get out of work, you know what I mean? And they didn't care who they had on their team. They just took their team and tried to make the kids the best they could be. They taught em how to show up, how to be present, how to be respectful, you know, that type of thing. No doubt the onus was more on team versus being individually better than the person you against. Right.
- [05:42]
A
I wanna fast forward a little bit. You know, we've obviously all seen the movie, we've all seen the moments, we've seen the training camp. Aside from just the storybook ending and the incredible story that was the miracle on I in the game. And I want to dive into a little bit about the work on the front end. Right? So here you are, you're getting ready to play the Soviets and, and the Russians. And they've got stars and they've got international, you know, professionals, and you're a bunch of, at the time, relatively anonymous college, albeit very good college hockey players. Talk a little bit about the ability to make that a team, the ability to get through that training camp, like give us an kind of look behind the curtain of maybe what we didn't see in the movie, what we haven't heard in the stories about, really allowed you guys to come together as a group to go on and have one of the greatest stories in the history of sport.
- [06:32]
B
Well, first off, I think the new Netflix miracle of boys of 80 does such a great job of having the guys give you perspective once we're Old enough and really understand it. And so you see the fabric of the. The character, right? So first thing, Greg, and you probably know this better than anybody, right? But you have to recruit talent. You recruit talent, you build trust, and you have team chemistry. If you don't recruit the right people who are really selfish, you get no trust that you get no team chemistry. Right? And that's kind of what we're talking about with these kids going from place to place to place. Right? Because it seems like it's easier. Well, it's not easy, Right. Our coach was brilliant, was the most organized man I've ever seen in my life. I studied him, I've learned from him. I do my motivational speaking with a lot of stuff that I've learned from him. And so Herb had six months to do what most people thought impossible. The reason why it wasn't is because he embraced that challenge. He had a plan. He recruited the right people. And the right people are people you can coach that will take talent, build trust and create chemistry. But the reason why our team won, in my opinion, nobody was afraid of the moment, nobody was scared, didn't mean we're going to win. And so there was a process and Herb Brooks journey and how he brought us through it and how he simplified it was, you've all heard you don't have enough talent to win a talent alone. Well, that's true with any team, right? You have to have a really good team. In my opinion, there's three types of coaches. There's coaches who can prepare during the week, and then when the game happens, they don't know how to do anything. They open the door, they close the door, right? And at the end they say, well, our best players didn't play as good as their best players. And then there's coaches who can prepare during the week, coach during the game, and then make adjustments. Right. And teach during the game. And that's what Herb Brooks was able to do, along with understand the psychological buttons that were needed not only for each player, but coaches. All right? And so you start doing that and you get that type of thing on a daily basis, pretty soon you become like minded. And I think that was really important. On how our team developed, would you.
- [09:04]
A
Say, looking back on the training camp process and building the roster, would you say Herb Brooks took less talented players at times? Like, can you think of some guys who came to that tryout? When the final team was picked, you said, I can't believe that guy didn't make it. Maybe a more talented player, but Just someone Herb didn't feel like would buy into his approach.
- [09:24]
B
He was amazing at that. So. And you know, you have to dig in to understand I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right players.
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A
Right.
- [09:33]
B
So you had a divide in back in those days, it was basically Boston versus Minnesota. That's what most of the players came from. And he took probably six guys that didn't have a chance to make the team to help build the culture. Interesting. You know, we had Les OJ he was from Minnesota, but he was. He was like a Boston guy. So he brought that guy, that. That mix. And then you had another guy that was like, great in another area. And so what he did was so strategic, amazing. We. We were in training camp and he knew changing a style of play would be difficult, so he had us go over to Europe for two weeks playing against lesser competition because he needed buy in. And if. If we played too tough a competition, it just wouldn't have worked. And I remember him coming up to me and say, hey, Jimmy, you're going to have to play really well during this time because they won't buy in if they don't. And then he didn't want clicks. So for the 12 games that we were on the road, each one of us had a different roommate. So we couldn't be a roommate with a friend or be there. So we had to meet everybody. And he did that. So he had no who to room in the Olympics. That's how far ahead he was. Then the schedule got a little tougher to show that, you know what, you're going to have to lift weights, you know, and he had a guy on a team who could fight, but you don't fight in the Olympics. But you have that as an ingredient for when you have to teach him. Because if you want these guys to stay, you not only have to prepare them to help you in the Olympics, but you have to prepare them to become a professional. Right. And so there's so much there that we don't have enough time.
- [11:09]
A
What I just love is there's so much nuance. I think so many people think the coaches are the ones who call the best plays, the ones who have the best scheme and the ones. But so much of coaching comes down to people, relationships, instincts, the nuance of how to pull different levers.
- [11:27]
B
You know, there's AI and there's all these stats, but if you don't get curious and ask enough questions about it, you know, what would they do on the five yard line when you're down by this. They say, okay, here's the answer. But if you say, what would happen if I went for it and we didn't get, that's a different answer. You know, so people lose their instincts, right? So instincts come from experience. Instincts comes because you're curious. Instincts come because you've had great coaches or bad coaches, Right. I mean, I was helping my kids coach, and we were playing a team that we shouldn't even be close to beating, but we had practiced things that he hadn't done, like pulling the goalies, getting people out there on power plays, knowing how to get a double shift at the end of a period because you had some rest. And so we're playing this team and we're losing, like, four to two, and there's five minutes left. And I turned to the coach, I said, we're going to pull the goal. And he goes, no, no, no, we're not. Because if we lost to him only 4 to 2, it was winning. And I went crazy, said, no, no, no. You're going to teach these kids how to win, right? You're going to be their confidence. We're going to work on it. And even if they make it five to three or six to two, who cares? They'll get game time experience on pulling a goalie, learning how to do this and, you know, all that thing. And so I said to him on the bench, I said, listen, I'm volunteering. I'm helping, right? I said, listen, if you don't pull the goalie, you just lost me as helping because I'm here to help these kids learn how to win as a team. Right. And not. And not get a participation trophy. Right. To learn that life is hard and that you. I always used to tell my son, I'd say to jd, you know, the easiest thing in the world is to be a friend, but the hardest thing in the world is to be a father. But that's my responsibility. And I said, someday we will be best friends. And when he got married and I was his best man, it was kind of a good sign that, you know, it was a nice thing that was happening. Yeah.
- [13:41]
A
It's just. It's so important for kids to hear that there's so much more than just the sport itself. All right, so training camp's over now. You're at the Olympics, you're in Lake Placid. You're getting ready for this run in your mind. I know, obviously, the Soviets in the game and the magnitude of what it became, but do you guys think in your mind, in that locker room, was it always the US vs Soviets, or were there other teams and countries that you guys had zeroed in on? Or, like, was it everything you did to beat that team?
- [14:11]
B
If you go to the Olympics now, it's set up for U.S. and Canada to be in the finals. When we started our first game against Sweden, Sweden was as good as the Russians, but probably not mentally as tough. We went from the Swedes to the Czechs, who are considered the second best team in the whole world. Any team in that Olympic thing could have beat us. We never got ahead of that. We prepared.
- [14:33]
A
Let's talk about the modern game a little bit, right? And let's educate our audience who might not be privy to how hockey works in the United States or how kind of regional it is and maybe different. They live in certain areas of the country that don't have a lot of access to the rinks and have a lot of access to great coaching and training. So where do we get it right in America? Hockey specifically? And then where are some of the areas that we get it wrong as far as that pipeline of kids, not only to college, but eventually making it to professional, you know, to the NHL?
- [15:06]
B
Well, what I'm most proud about is how our team was a catalyst to help. No, for sure, hockey grow. You know, I mean, Gretzky going to LA was a nice way to grow, right? But the women's game grew tremendously. The NHL, because of its expansion and, you know, have, like, I'm down St. Pete, watch the lightning. Their organization is so good. The players are now living there. So coaching in this area for people in Florida is as good as anywhere, right? And so what they've really done, it's an amateur sport, right? It's. And people go for the love of it. It gets there. They've figured out how to make the hours better. They have a code of conduct that's really better. But then it gets to the point where people think their kids can make them money or they can save them money, and that's where they lose it, right? That's where they lose the idea. To me, it's about passion and what you want to do. It's about purpose. You need purpose, and you need to take advantage of the opportunity that you're given. And so forever, Boston's had good players and Minnesota's had good players, but now those. Those areas have so many good players. Every dad wants to be their coach. They're not playing with the best players. Every league, they win. But when these teams that you think weren't any good, like out of Atlanta or coming out of, you know, the Florida area. Their, their pool to pull from, it is big. And so their sacrifice is a little bit more. Their coaches are just as good, these players. I mean, if you look at Matthews, right, He's, Isn't he from Phoenix? Right. You know, you start looking around, right? And, and so the ingredient is always the same. You've got to have passion, right? You have commitment. You have to put the work in. But the opportunity is what you have to take advantage of.
- [16:58]
A
Would you say we're at the point now? And again, you mentioned Phoenix in California and Florida. You know, I know there's a big presence now in Nashville. We have some friends whose son and daughter operate in the Nashville Predators kind of youth hockey system. Or would you say we're at the point now, unlike when you were coming up where you said it was dominated by Minnesota and Boston. And if you were into sport, you kind of went, you lived with host families, you went to high school and other regions. Would you say, now if you have a son or a daughter that want to pursue hockey as a young player, would you say you can anywhere you live in the country? We're at the point now where there is the resources and the infrastructure to support that.
- [17:36]
B
Yes. Yeah. And, and we're no longer the underdog, right? We've got a bigger country than Canada, Right. We have more people that we can pick and choose from. Are the NHL. You can see the rivalry in the four nations. You know that this is.
- [17:51]
A
That was awesome.
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B
Well, you know, I mean, it's real because, you know, I, I was asked for a quote for the girl, the women, and you know, my daughter was a full scholarship hockey player at Colgate, right. And they said, can you leave a quote to pin up on the wall by quote West, I'm sick and tired of listening to how good the Canadians are. You've earned this respect. Go out and win, right? You want to respect your opponent, but you don't want to be afraid of it. You've done the work, you've done all the things you've earned, right? And so there are tournaments now. No matter where you're from, you can get to play in. The scouts are everywhere, right? And the, the hardest thing about the sport now, and I have a son in law that's been in the league, the NHL now for 13 years, is you have to be the best in the world to play hockey. You know, you played football, pretty much the best American, but pretty much the United States. Right. I don't, I don't. I don't think you're fighting against Finns, Russians, Czech, Swedes, Germans, you know, you know, to play in the National Hockey League, that. That's a. That's a big task to be that good. Right. And. And. And the competition is that big, that much more. Right. So. And soccer, I'm sure, is some similar to that. Right.
- [19:11]
A
And certainly certain countries are earlier or some countries are more late adopters. There's a cultural element. Right. There's a cultural element. All right, so let's talk about this. This year's teams, both the men's and the women's. For the women's, it'll be the US And Canada. Is it the same for the men's? Like, are both a collision course for it to come down for both men's and women's US versus Canada? Is that. Is that kind of what's going to play out?
- [19:36]
B
If you ran the networks, that's what you would want to have happen.
- [19:39]
A
Of course. Right.
- [19:41]
B
And I think the women's Canada in the U.S. of that much better. So I think that would be a pretty safe bet. You know, winning isn't just on talent. Right. There's a lot of intangibles that are going to come into that thing, and that's kind of why I sent that quote to the women is don't be thinking about how good they are. Just have them worry about how good you are. Right. Go out and play your game is what Herb says. Play your game. Right. For the men's, both Canada and the United States, I mean, US Plays Sweden today, they could very easily lose that game. It's about opportunity, and it's about preparation, and it's not about hope or wish. Those aren't strategies. Right.
- [20:20]
A
Well, and it's so fitting. I don't know how many people. I don't think I really realized that growing up. I wasn't even born yet. I was born in 85, so I obviously learned.
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B
Rub it in. Sorry.
- [20:32]
A
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But obviously I learned of the game just as a fan of sport and Al Michaels and the, the obviously the super famous line, do you believe in miracles? And then we all saw the movie. I don't think many people. I certainly didn't realize that when we beat the Russians, it was in the semifinal. Yes, you guys, that was like. I think everyone just assumed the story was that was to win the gold and the most important game maybe in the history of this country wasn't even A championship game, to your point, about, like, the most important game is the next game.
- [21:04]
B
You know, I rewatched the documentary today, and my teammate, Mark Johnson, one of the best players, he had such a great line, and they. They caught it in the documentary. And nobody had ever paid attention to the Finland game and how tough that was and how much pressure there was and how you go from an underdog to a favorite, right? Or how after two periods we were losing two to one and the whole arena is booing us, right? I mean, who would ever think that was happening, right? But Mark, you know, it shows him skating and he falls down and we've played. This will be our seventh game in 12 days, right? We've been on the road playing 61 in four and a half months, right? We've been really, really pressured, right? And he gets up and you can see he's exhausted. And his comments is, you know, what do you do when you have no more gas in the tank and you got to play the biggest game of your life, right? You have to figure this thing out. And that comes with the mental toughness. And then he says, then all of a sudden we score a goal. We gotta get some energy. And you realize why all those herbies were so important during the year. And. And that's true with any coach or great teacher you have at the time. You don't like them, but when you're finally old enough and smart enough, you say, oh, my God, that was my best teacher. That was my best coach, right? And. And so as long as coaches care, I think that's a. That makes a. Really. Makes them really kind of special.
- [22:36]
A
And again, we all probably are guilty of. In the moment, it doesn't feel as necessary as in reflection and the word you used early on. And again, it's just such a fitting. Is. Is the win against the Soviet. Is that when the Miracle on Ice, the iconic moment of the 20th century, if you don't win gold, right? If you lose the next game, as happy as we were to beat them, it's nowhere near the moment in sports history that it is if you guys don't finish the whole thing.
- [23:07]
B
I think winning is really important. I think a lot of coaches in leagues and youth sports don't. Don't put enough emphasis on winning, but not like it's the end all. But you got to teach people the difference between winning and losing, and you got to teach them the type of effort it takes to win and what you have to bounce back from. From losing. And so if we didn't beat these Finland, you wouldn't be having, you wouldn't be calling me today. Nobody would be calling me. And they shouldn't be. Right? Because the objective and the goal was to win a gold medal. And it wasn't for us, it was for our country. And that's what I really hope. That pride comes with the men. I can see it with the women. They're so proud, right, to represent their country. And I think a lot of the guys that are on the men's team have already shown how proud they are to be Americans. And I'm proud of a lot of them because they're from where I'm from, the Boston area. They're really, you know, they, they, they get it. You know, it's really kind of special.
- [24:10]
A
Well, Jim, I, I can't thank you enough. Obviously, we're all going to be following along for all the Olympians, all the Americans especially, but obviously both the men's and women's hockey team, your perspective, your story, your message is just so timely and fitting, not only for this time of year with the Olympics, but obviously just in general with our audience. So I really appreciate you jumping on here and sharing some stories and sharing some fun of your background here on.
- [24:36]
B
You think it's easy to have an angle versus try to do a mission, right? And try to do something that means something for more. That's a lot more work. And so I always pick and choose how I go on based on the, their what I call moral compass. And yours is a good one. So I was happy to be on this.
- [24:56]
A
Well, I appreciate that. We appreciate your time and what a great story. So enjoy the rest of the Olympics. Hopefully we, we beat the Canadians.
- [25:03]
B
And I'll leave audience with one thought. When I look at the Olympics, I cheer for the best athletes. I don't care what country they're from. I know the journey. I know how much time it's committed to doing that. And I love to see the excitement and the disappointment. Right? So you, you've seen that. That's what happens. But to me, I just respect talent, right? And I, I, I, and in the Olympics, I respect talent, but I re. I also expect them to respect their country.
- [25:36]
A
I love talent. I respect all the athletes in it. But I'm watching sports that I'm not overly sure exactly what I'm watching. I always cheer for the Americans. I don't care if it's figure skating, curling, hockey, or I'm watching people do like half pipe, skiing, flips. I don't know what any of it is, but I want the Americans to win. Well, I appreciate it, Jim. Thanks so much.
- [25:57]
B
Okay, thanks.