← Youth Justice Transformation in Action
Youth Justice Transformation in Action
A New Path to Success: Prosecutor-Led Reform in Youth Justice
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Welcome to Season four of Youth Justice Transformation in Action. We are the National Resource center for the Transformation of Youth justice and we're on a mission to transform the youth justice system by partnering with people like you who are passionate about improving outcomes for youth, families and communities you serve. I hi, I'm Jody Martin, Deputy Executive Director.
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And I'm John Toole, Executive Director.
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This season we're diving into the innovative and effective approaches that are reshaping youth justice across the nation. From groundbreaking programs to community led solutions, we'll be spotlighting the change makers who are driving progress and making a real difference in the lives of young people. In this episode, John speaks with Samira Seydou, Chief and Fanny Yu, Deputy District Attorney from the Juvenile Division of the San Diego County District Attorney's Office to take you inside that effort, how referrals are made, what individualized plans look like in practice, and why collaboration with community partners is at the heart of its success. We'll explore the outcomes they have sought to achieve, how impact is measured, and what's been learned along the way. Thank you for joining us.
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Greetings everyone. We're pleased today to feature Samira Seydou and Fanny Yu of the San Diego County District Attorney's Office as we address the issue of diversion and their extraordinary efforts to develop the Juvenile Diversion Initiative in San Diego. Welcome Samira. Welcome Fanny. I'd like to invite you to introduce yourselves. Maybe we'll start with Fanny, tell our audience a little bit about you.
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Great to be here John, and thank you for having us. I've been a prosecutor here in San Diego county for my entire career and so it's been great serving the people here in San Diego. A couple of different things about myself. I've spent the last 12 years in our Juvenile justice division, so really been able to see the transformation that we've been doing with our youth and communities. Also, I am involved with various county bar associations and notably currently serving as a president of the National Asian Pacific Islander Prosecutors association. And I also have my partner and my two teenage sons and our rescue dog. So glad to be here and great.
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To meet you, Fannie. Thank you. Samira.
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Hi. Thank you for having us. We're really excited to be here to talk about our Juvenile Diversion initiative. I have been a prosecutor for 16 years in San Diego the entire time. I am currently the Division chief of our Juvenile Branch. I've been in this position for almost a year now and before that I was Assistant Chief. I've prosecuted all types of cases from domestic violence to child Sexual assault, molest, rape, homicide. I've been in juvenile as an intern, as a trial team leader, and now as chief. So I'm very excited to be here to talk about what we do here in San Diego.
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Thank you, Samara, and great to meet you as well. I'd be remiss if I didn't at least reference our familiarity with a former colleague of both of yours, recently retired, Lisa Weinreb from this division. She's had a major contribution to the work that we're going to be talking about today. And we appreciated the opportunity of the last several years to develop a really positive relationship with her and see her commitment to the youth justice field. But on the heels of that, I would say a special thank you to both of you for your commitment and long term commitment to the youth justice field. And we're going to learn a little bit more about that in our conversation today. Let me first start with just a basic. What drew you to working with young people? Samira, you want to start us off?
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So, you know, I actually did not go into this job looking to work with young people, to be honest. But when I was assigned to juvenile as a glc, it was graduate law clerk, as an intern, it was really eye opening to see the kinds of situations our youth find themselves in, the kinds of crimes they are committing. It was surprising. It's just not something that you think people of that age are going through or are seeing. So every time I've come back, this is now my fourth time in juvenile. Every time I've come back, what I've enjoyed the most is kind of seeing the progress, seeing them while on probation, taking the steps that they need to take, overcoming their trauma, overcoming whatever situation it is that they're going through to actually do what they need to do to progress and grow. So I actually asked to come back here as trial team leader in 2020 just because I really did enjoy seeing the progress that we were making with some of these youth. It's nice when you see in the midst of all this kind of chaos, when we see our youth actually doing very, very well and doing what they need to do so that they can be productive members of our communities.
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Danny had a similar career trajectory with Samara. So my very first kind of introduction to juvenile justice was when I interned at the Los Angeles County DA's office during law school. And I found that experience very eye opening. Probably the most important part was how collaborative all the stakeholders were. The prosecutor, the attorney representing the juvenile, the court, probation or child welfare. So I really enjoyed that. And that stuck with me. And then I was lucky enough to have worked in our juvenile division during my second year assignment in the San Diego DA's office. And then I spent a long time in my career developing the skill set to prosecute human traffickers, sex traffickers in particular. I didn't get to really have a lot of hands on interaction with my victims, some of whom were teenagers. So when I had the opportunity to switch my assignment, I actually just like Samara, asked to come back to the juvenile division because I really wanted to work more with my victims who happen to have their own juvenile justice cases. And as we know, the studies have shown our brains are not fully developed until maybe 23. So it really goes to show that how we can interact with our youth can make a huge difference in the long term. I really felt that this was a place where we can really do a lot of work, restorative, transformational. For me, coming back here in 2013 and then working closely with victims of sexual assaults, molest, as well as then prosecuting victims, and then later on building our collaborative court for our youth involved with either being groomed or having been victimized by trafficking, to see their resilience is probably one of the most inspiring things for me. I think sometimes we tend to overlook the intelligence and the emotional resiliency of our young people because we think they're young. But in fact, some of the cases I've had, some of the interactions I've had with the youth, they are some of the most intelligent and resilient people I've ever met. And so again, with some of them having gone through certain types of challenges and difficulties and then to see them engage and receive services, that's been probably for me, one of the most rewarding parts of my career.
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I'm inspired learning about that long term commitment and really the back and forth. But what keeps bringing you back is the opportunity to impact youth in a very positive way. And I know that's a commitment that you guys have each individually and collectively made in the San Diego County DA's office. Samira, what led San Diego county to develop the Juvenile Diversion Initiative, which I may refer to henceforth as jdi. And why was a prosecutor led approach seen as the right fit?
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So one of the main reasons that our da, Sermore Stephan, wanted to develop this program was there was a gap in terms of diversion programs in San Diego. There are so many law enforcement agencies and even our probation department have diversion programs, but they can only divert misdemeanors. They are mandated by law to send us any felony that a youth commits. We are mandated by law to review all felony offenses committed by juveniles. So there was that gap in a diversion program for lower level felonies because law enforcement, they do not have the ability legally to divert those. So that's one of the things that our DA Summer Stephan, looked at, along with Lisa Reinreb, our former retired chief and working with Fannie, that is what led them to develop the program is how do we intervene. Because not every youth that commits a felony, e.g. felony vandalism or vehicle theft, car theft, those all don't need to go through the court system, not court intervention is required for every single felony that a youth commits. So how do we keep them from touching the juvenile justice system? How do we get them services in their community, engage them with services in their community and the places they live and the places they go to school without them having to come before a court and a judge and deal with those formalities? So that's one of the things that we looked at in terms of developing jdi. We went to our justice partners, stakeholders within the community, the people that were going to be providing these services. We engaged the court to get their buy in. We engaged with the public defender's office to make sure that they were on board. They did all of that before going to our county board of supervisors to get buy in and get approval and get funding for this program. So there was a lot of work up front that went into it to make sure that we actually develop a program that can make a difference in these youth lives. There was assessment of other programs throughout the country to see what was working, what was not working. So that was the main impetus for the start of this program is how do we fill that gap since really no one else can do it. And that's why the prosecutor led approach was the right fit.
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Tamir, thank you. And I appreciate you raising the notion of the necessary collaboration in your outreach to other partners. The fact that you've learned from programs perhaps around the country and how to carry this forward speaks to the comprehensive nature and the thoughtfulness of the way in which your office developed this initiative. I appreciate you raising those points. Fannie, what are the core goals and to that collaboration, not just for the youth involved, but if you, and perhaps Sameer also can speak to, yes, the, the goal for the youth, but also for the victims and for the community as well.
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You know, when the JDI program started, we definitely were always mindful because we're a prosecution agency of making sure that public safety is important. But we also wanted to recognize that using restorative principles to allow the youth to understand the harm that they've done, but at the same time, being able to understand the accountability piece was still important. And then being able to bring alongside community providers, whether they're individuals or organizations, as well as the piece regarding the victims. Like you said, John, you know, when we looked at a lot of diversion programs, not only in our county, but throughout the country, one of the things that we noticed was that most diversion programs didn't really have that aspect of involving the victims. And what I mean by that is, in some of the cases that are appropriate for diversion, there was an actual loss, whether that's financial because the car was stolen or there was damage done, vandalism to the business. And so really, when we're talking about restoring, not just restoring the youth, but also just that relationship to the person harm, we have to also address the actual loss and also to include their voice. One of the things that we're really proud of is the fact that we have been able to build a model that really does involve the victims voluntarily, of course, if they want to be involved with the restorative circle, to really be able to talk about how the youth's conduct impacted their lives. And I'll just give a quick example that we had a youth that actually had vandalized a business. The business owner had actually had the same thing happen to him just two months prior. He was driving on his way to Vegas for a work conference, got the call that his business was vandalized. He thought law enforcement was talking about the incident two months ago when it wasn't, it was a new incident. He had to go back to San Diego. He was halfway in his drive. And so when he met with that youth in the conference, being able to talk about how he grew up and had no one helping him and had to really build his life, build a career, build a business. And he wasn't saying that to make the youth feel bad, but to help the youth understand. He knew what it was like to grow up, you know, in nothing. And then he wanted to actually help that youth, you know, learn. Like he even said, if you're wanting to learn about entrepreneurship, I'm happy to mentor you, help you, but you need to have different choices in life for that family and for that youth. That was so impactful, more than just the traditional sense of being in a courtroom listening to a victim impact letter. And I'm not trying to minimize the victim impact Letter. But that encounter in that circle between the two sides, I think was a lot more meaningful, which is exactly what we were trying to do. So again, for that person, Harm, it wasn't about the money that he needed to replace that really impressing upon that young man that he had to make better choices, because it really does matter.
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And I think that part is very, very important in what our core goals really are with jdi, and that's to reduce our juveniles interaction with the court system. And we do that by promoting alternative options for youth as opposed to filing formal charges. We do that by engaging them with services within their community. And we do that by having them understand how their choices impact people within their community, how their choices impact victims. And hopefully they leave having some empathy for our victims and some understanding of what our victims go through when they are harmed by other people's actions. Our main goal really is to make sure that once they go through this program, they take something from it, they grow and they learn, and that they never touch the justice system as offenders again, whether that be juvenile and especially the adult justice system. You know, we do that by engaging them with services within their community. We do that by making sure that they really are getting the services that they need, services specific to their risks. And we do that by kind of making sure that they are participating, have a voice in what they're doing. Hopefully, our victims are willing to engage as well so that they can understand and have a voice as well. But that's the main goal. We want to make sure that this will be the only time that they touch the justice system.
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JDI is not possible without the partnerships from our community organizations. Anyone who's part of government knows that with government, there are certain expectations and requirements in order to contract with community organizations. And sometimes for our grassroots organizations, our mentors, our incredible messengers, it's difficult to get a contract directly with the county. So with the goal of jdi, it was also to be seen that we would require our program administrator, the National Conflict Resolution center, to subcontract and partner with as many potential organizations or individuals as possible so that not only are they serving our youth, but we can hopefully also build them up, have more established organizations, train the ones that are newer so that they would be able to, in essence, have those ability to put on their resumes that they've worked with a government program such as JDI. And we have over 50 subcontractors in the JDI program right now. Again, I really want to emphasize that piece and on behalf of the DA's office here. We really appreciate the community coming together and being part of this program because they're doing the hard work day in, day out, meeting with the youth.
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So that last point you make, Fannie, the impressive list of resources and services that are part of your collaboration to serve the interests of the program. But obviously for the youth, the victims in the community is outstanding. But in both of your thoughtful responses, you've basically mimicked what the research says are important components of a diversion approach. You've provided our audience with a set of bulleted points of what is important when you're constructing a juvenile diversion initiative in your community among the collaborators to achieve shared goals for the prosecutor's office, but for you, for the community, for the youth, for the families, and certainly for the victims as well. I really appreciate that kind of comprehensive response and laying out of why the JDAI in San Diego is so successful. If I can transition just a little bit to the criteria or criterion that drive the decisions made by your office to refer youth to the JDI program. Fannie, maybe I ask you if you could comment on that.
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So the youth has to have been less than the age of 18 during their contact with law enforcement's investigation. At the DA's office, we receive law enforcement referrals. We don't get to control what comes into our office. It's just submitted. And then when we are evaluating, the first initial step is always to see whether or not there are provable charges, evidence that shows beyond a reasonable doubt. So if a case doesn't have sufficient evidence, we would never be screening that youth for jdi. So meaning JDI is essentially a pre file alternative to what could have been a youth entering into juvenile justice system. So once it's provable, then I end up screening the cases. We of course are looking to see if it's suitable for this youth to work with a community diversion program. There are obviously cases where the type of either violence too great, there is a great public safety risk that diversion would not be an appropriate manner in order to resolve the case or that the harm done to the victim was so great. So we've got serious injuries, again not appropriate, or there are cases where the youth has mental health conditions in which maybe we feel that we need a psychological evaluation to best guide stakeholders on how to really rehabilitate the youth. And unfortunately, JDI cannot facilitate getting a psychological evaluation. And again, if our youth is constantly running away, again, JDI works in the community. So if the youth isn't able to engage and it's not to say that JDI services may not be able to help that youth, but at the critical time that we're doing the screening, are they able to really be there to engage or are there other avenues where we do need a higher level of intervention from the court, from probation and other stakeholders? But we do look at every case and examine it for different factors. We'll look at their school records sometimes depending on what kind of case, if it's involving the family as the victim, family member, we speak to family members. So we are very cognizant that we can't just simply look at a report to make that decision.
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I'm going to circle back to this notion about the collaborative nature of the jdi. I'm sticking with you on this, Fannie, because you referenced previously the community led programming supporting your success, but you referenced specifically the National Conflict Resolution center for our audience. Can you comment a little bit more about how that center supports your work?
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Ncrc, the National Conflict Resolution center, they're the program administrator for jdi. So there is an actual contract between the district Attorney's office and ncrc. We did have to go out for a request for a proposal as a government agency and then NCRC was selected as our actual contractor. So there is that contractual relationship. They have a team of over now 16 individuals. So it's a very robust team because of the fact that the DA's office refer on average 500 youth a year. And so they have program manager, case managers. Also they have community outreach coordinators, individuals whose duties and roles are to go out in the community and try to continuously find potentially new partners that can work. So unlike a program where once they try to get the partners together, it's established and then you start the program, JDI is constantly looking for new partners. So again, we always tell our community, friends, allies, if they know somebody, they know an organization that wants to help, to always refer them to NCRC so that they can do the vetting. They also have a victim Engagement Coordinator and again, very specific role in that. That individual is the one that contacts all the victims involved once the youth and their caregiver accepts. So let me back up a little bit. JDI is a voluntary program. So even though it's in lieu of charging, we give the youth and their caregivers or their guardians the choice. So no one is ever forced to take jdi. But if they do, they understand that part of participation is the fact that NCRC will engage with the victims to see if they have any losses in participation. And the victim Engagement Coordinator is such an important piece because it allows a separation between case managers. Case managers going to focus on helping that youth get through their JDI case plan goals. But the victim engagement coordinator, for lack of a better word, is really kind of the advocate or the person that the victim can talk with. I'll be very honest, John. There's been times when I speak with victims and let them know that we are making the decision to refer the responsible youth to jdi. They're not that happy and I validate their feelings. But what I try to explain to them is that depending on the type of offense, so the lower level, we may not be able to accomplish in the traditional system what the victim really wants. And we often have to explain that the youth may be getting more services and more supervision, monitoring through our JDI process. But more importantly, we try to tell the victim, you have the ability to be part of that circle. You have that ability to talk to the youth. And in fact, I'll share the story briefly. We had a victim, 72 year old victim, who unfortunately these young kids was, they were playing a prank, kind of like the ding dong your door and leave. But there was a big boom. He thought somebody maybe put some kind of device, but the door was heavily damaged. Thankfully, he and his wife were not on the other side. He was very skeptical, very angry, I would even say. But once I asked him just keep an open mind and be there to tell the youth what had happened. He was so impressed by the process, John. He said, at the end, I will volunteer as a surrogate victim. So for any cases there's a victim, but the victim doesn't want to participate in a circle. Please, NCRC call me to be a surrogate victim. I mean, that's how he kind of had a 180 full circle turnaround. And we're very grateful that victim is on our panel as a surrogate victim.
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C
Samira, a little bit of a shift here. It's a little bit unusual for me to even be able to get into this level of depth with a prosecutor's office on this topic. So I congratulate you all once again. But how does the JDI ensure that each youth's needs and risks are appropriately assessed? And what role do validated risk and needs assessments play in the process?
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For jdi, we actually use the same risk assessment tool our probation department uses, the San Diego Risk and Resiliency Assessment Tool. Fannie worked very closely with NCRC to get some of their staff members trained up on using that assessment tool. Every youth that goes through. JDI is assessed for their needs and their risk. And that's how we come up with a case plan for them. It ensures consistency. It ensures that their needs are being met. I mean, it may be something as simple as they need more pro social activities to participate in. It may be that actually they need an educational advocate to go into their schools and advocate for them. So that's how we make sure that we are being consistent. We are using the same tool that probation uses that also allows us to look at the program, analyze what we're doing and trying to determine if it works. Using that tool really gives us a base and it's a validated tool. It gives us a base that we can jump off of and to make sure that everything we're doing actually work. It gives us something that we can measure, so to speak, to make sure that what we are doing is actually working. We want to be consistent and not look at the youth and make up things that they may need or may not need based on what they're telling us. Having them go through this assessment actually gives us a good base and a base that we can rely on so that we can provide them with the services that they need.
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Does it challenge you to walk away from the authority and the discretion part of your job or does it support it?
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It supports it because when we talk about the discretion in our job, a lot of it has to do with what we're actually already doing. We already, we have the discretion to charge or we have the discretion to send it to jdi. We don't use the risk assessment tool in that process. The risk assessment tool really comes once, especially on our end, once, once they are in the juvenile justice system. It comes after there's been a true finding or a conviction. It comes once probation is trying to assess what their needs are while they're on probation. Doing it this way with JDI and doing it early on I think actually is an advantage. There's not that kind of stigma of having a conviction while you're going through this process and doing, taking this assessment or the test that the assessment is giving. It really is. Look, we're trying to help you so that you don't wind up in the criminal justice system. So be honest in these answers. Let's figure out what you need and let's take it from there. So I don't think it really interferes, frankly, with our discretion. We can choose to charge or we can choose to send it to jdi. And I think this is one of the advantages of Sending a case to JDI is that we get that assessment very early on so that we can figure out what it is they need without having to wait for them to go through the system and resolve their cases. I think studies have shown the earlier we intervene, the better for the youth. So I think that is definitely one of the advantages of having using this assessment with jvi.
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C
Once again, I appreciate both of you all's commitment to the research to help guide your decisions. Yes, earlier intervention is more effective. Yes. In fact, diversion may lower the risk of reoffending as well. And when you apply it the way you guys do to develop some sort of targeted service or intervention plan, yes, there's even greater impact on the reduction of future recidivism and obviously on the safety of the community and reduction in the number of victims. So I really appreciate you highlighting that that is part of your approach. And Fannie, we've talked about this individualized plan. Fortunately, Euro's plans evolve into including overall wellness. Samira just mentioned the pro social behavior. We are aware of the educational advocacy that is part of this. Could you share a little bit about what these these components look like in practice for a young person in the JDI program?
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So they are broken down to the more basic categories. So wellness wellness consists of a couple of different types. For any of our youth that ends up being assessed by the SDRRC2 as low risk to recidivate. They can just do our decision making curriculum which many jurisdictions have, using a cbt, a cognitive based treatment type of curriculum. And it could be either online, synchronous or in person. But if an individual perhaps is concerned about being in a group or their assessed risk is a little bit higher, medium or medium to high, then they would do an individualized based treatment. So one on one counseling. We also offer our family based treatment for those youth where we believe that the root issue deals with the family as a system. But again, we don't have authority to force our caregivers to be part of that treatment, but we do offer it and we also have substance abuse treatment as part of wellness. As you can imagine, some of our youth do have the challenge of dealing with using substances or who are addicted. Then there's the pro social and as we often like to say, you know, yes, there was that law enforcement contact and the youth's behavior that ended up with them being referred. But that doesn't define this young person. And in fact our pro social takes kind of a different approach than a traditional system in that it's not simply as well, you were shoplifting. So therefore go to an anti theft class.
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Right.
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We've kind of seen that that model doesn't quite help to really understand what we are seeing, especially after Covid, the isolation, the disconnection, the feeling of a lack of hope, lacking self confidence. A lot of our youth, even though they perpetrated a crime, they themselves have been victims of bullying. We see that. So the pro social is really to develop their confidence. We have mentoring. So for some of our youth, who really needs that role model, we have our incredible messengers, our mentoring for those who maybe perhaps, and I'll just take the example of tagging graffiti. We have a subcontractor with NCRC that does design art. And so we're able to let the youth understand you can take your artistic talent and perhaps make it into a future business or something. You know, do a mural for a part of a neighborhood in our community. Right. Something that could take their talents and do it in a positive legal manner. We also have different types of outdoor activities. Some youth do not want to talk about problems, but yet they are happy to be in a group, whether that's learning how to communicate kayak or learning the benefits of hiking on the body, mentally, spiritually. And then of course, as you mentioned, we have our educational support. This has probably been again one of the most important impactful piece that we've discovered. And I have to give kudos to Lisa Weinreb for really making sure that our JDI program included educational advocacy. We know that all over the state, but I'll just speak to California. The education code allows students to have certain types of benefits that the school districts have to provide if there are certain types of conditions. But not all families know that. And so for us to be able to connect with the caregivers, with an educational advocate for free, it really helps that youth become more successful in the school background which we hope will then again reduce the risk for recidivism. But we've also seen that our victim advocates don't only help our JDI youth, they can help the younger siblings, they can help parents get other kind of services and they've been able to help our youth kind of plan their future. So I think, you know, we're maybe going to talk about that a little bit, but the aftercare is important because all of this, John, you know, people often ask, how long is my child going to be in jdi? And I'll tell you, we do not want a youth to be in JDI longer than six months. This is supposed to be a lighter touch than the traditional system. And so we understand we can't fix everything in six months. But I think the goal was to get these families and youth connected to individuals in their neighborhoods who do amazing work.
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C
Fanny, that's a terrific answer and I really appreciate that last point that you've made. Yes, this is meant to be an off ramp, not a long term relationship building. And yet you've managed to pay attention to some of these important components that do reduce the future risk, like an individualized plan, like a tailored plan for these youth and yet still have some limits, outer limits on how long you want to work and achieve the goals of the jdi. I really appreciate that comment and I think once again for the audience, you're able to do all this because of the collaboration that you've built, which produces greater opportunities to explore all those kinds of examples that you provided Fanny in your response. So that is truly tailored and truly can target the reduction of risk moving forward. I think everyone will ask that sounds great folks, really nice. Maybe a couple people will have to do double takes to look back at. Are these prosecutors speaking to me right now in this podcast? They are indeed with great excitement experience. But then the question will arise. How do you evaluate the effectiveness of the jdi? So what metrics or feedback or long term outcomes are used to determine whether this is achieving its goals? Can you comment on that? Sameer?
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D
You know, obviously we're very proud of the program and we believe it has a lot of potential. But again, like you said, how do we know that it is successful and we actually work with the San Diego or contract with sandag, it's the San Diego association of Government to analyze the program and look at specific data points to determine whether or not we are successful. This is a young program, I think where Fannie, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's four years in right now. So we have two annual reports that we have put out. They are working on the annual report for 2024. The data points we have looked at previously have been completion of the program and we have a very high success rate in that I think right now we're at 82% of the youth who enter the program successfully completed. But one of the things that we were talking about this year, our DA Summer Stephan and Lisa Weinreb before she retired was is that really a measure of success? One of the core goals of the program is to reduce recidivism. Well, that doesn't really tell us if we're reducing recidivism it's a great statistic. But are we really making a lasting impact? So we've asked that to go back and look at other data points. One of the things we want to look at is once they turn 18, are they finding themselves in the adult juvenile justice system? Have we made a difference? Have we actually achieved that core goal of keeping them out of the justice system completely? So that's one of the data points we are going to be looking at. You know, we look at, even within the data points that we're looking now, we're looking at very specific things. So amongst the completion rate, you know, what is the racial breakdown of that, what is the gender breakdown of that, what services are working and what services are not working? We're looking at youth who have been charged with or arrested for felonies and what the completion rate is there, and the youth who have been charged with misdemeanors and what the completion rate is there. So it only makes sense that we start looking at additional data points in terms of our goal, not just being introducing them to these services within their community and having them engage in the services within the community and assisting them in completing their case plan, but also making sure that once they leave our program, they do not touch the juvenile justice system. They do not find themselves in court, whether it be juvenile court or adult court. So that is how we have been measuring success. And we are looking to actually kind of look at different data points to make sure that our main core goal is something that we are achieving.
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C
Thank you, Samira. And of course, we had the privilege of conducting a system review in San Diego, and we're privy to those previous year reports. You're impacting an enormous number of young people and the thoughtful nature of the way you want to evaluate its impact is impressive. And I appreciate you articulating so many of those details. They provide guidance for so many other programs or jurisdictions across the country who would seek to emulate the work that you've done and the success that you've achieved. I really appreciate that response, Fannie. In the moments that we have left, if you were looking back at these first few years of implementation, can you characterize a couple of the challenges that you faced to really implement effectively and maintain and sustainability sustain the work that you're doing?
- [38:41]
A
One of the things that I'm sure it's not going to come as a surprise to your audience is that transportation is a, is a barrier. So one of the things that JDI built in, in the funding was to make sure that transportation needs are going to be provided by ncrc. It's not going to be dependent on the caregiver or the youth. And we have seen that that resource of putting money into transportation needs has been able to show the outcome of more youth successfully completing jdi. The other thing too is I mentioned earlier, we want to make sure that the victims are restored. Well, people ask, what if this youth and the families don't have the money to pay back for that thousand dollar damage? And we understand that's not going to be a barrier for a youth completing JDI successfully, but what do we do with it? Do we just ignore the victim's loss? No. So the amazing thing too that we'd like to share is that the National Conflict Resolution center, they took to heart what the DA's office goal was and they created a victim Restoration fund so that through the generous donation of others, the fund is available so that the youth, the responsible youth, will agree to a certain amount and they will try to pay what they can. But for those who just can't pay the full amount back, the victims are allowed to apply to the Victim Restoration fund where then NCRC can decide how much to be able to provide to that victim. That's amazing. For a community diversion program. And then the last thing is, of course we understand not every parent or guardian may be willing to accept jdi, that there are certain times when maybe families have had other prior experiences that may have been negative with stakeholders or government agencies. And so we were again looking at the outcomes like Samara mentioned, you know, how do we increase the number of our black and Hispanic youth and their families to participate with jdi? And you know, we decided to kind of create this new model that we're still trying. It's in the infancy stage, but it's called the Peer Advisory Group for jdi. And what it is is we thought let's try getting former JDI alums so you have successfully completed. And then also certain prior caregivers who've gone through JDI with their child who are willing to participate to be a member of this peer advisory group so that they can come alongside, you know, NCRC or us to give their perspective. Because I like to say doing this as long as I have, I don't want to speak for or about the youth. They can speak for themselves. So I think empowering the youth to be able to give their perspective, whether that's talking to a prospective family member of a youth that we prefer but are skeptical that maybe having another caregiver who understands why, why they're cautious or doubtful even whether this program is really helpful. Maybe giving their tidbit and their experience maybe could help. So again, we're in the infancy still trying this, but we really wanted to think outside the box.
- [42:04]
C
And I hope you guys won't mind me saying that. You know, the National Resource center has developed what we call dart. It's an acronym for Diversion and Alternative Reform Team Team. It really seeks to develop research based principles and practice to establish a comprehensive approach to diversion, not just a diversion program. Everything that you guys have articulated demonstrates the thoughtfulness, the passion, the commitment to those research based principles that are the foundation of our DART initiative. It's so refreshing to hear that you've made that commitment. You continue to exist, examine how you enhance and improve the diversion approach in San Diego County. And once again reminding the audience it's prosecutor led from the San Diego County District Attorney's Office. I'm so grateful that you guys were willing to take the time to describe what you've been a part of, what your commitment and passion is toward to achieving success in this important arena. I don't want to leave though, without at least asking. Such trust, terrific youth justice leaders. You know, if you could change one thing about youth justice currently, what would you want the audience to know you would change? Samira, do you want to kick it off?
- [43:17]
D
I honestly could go on for days with this question. But before I answer, I do want to give Fannie and her team and NCRC some credit in terms of the last point she just made, which is building trust within our communities, especially our black and brown communities. You know, when you get a call about a DA office led diversion program, I mean, the hairs would be standing up on the back of my head. I'd be very suspicious. But they have worked very hard to build trust within these communities. And when you look at our data, our prior reports, those are the communities where participation is a little bit lower. And we think it is because of the trust aspect of it and sometimes for good reason. So I just want to give them credit. They've worked very, very hard in terms of evaluating the program and reevaluating our approach in these communities and how we talk to them. Fannie is not adverse to picking up a phone and calling a youth parent to talk about the program and explain the program. And if they successfully complete this, you won't hear from us again. So I don't want to give them credit for that. Like we are trying very hard to get more participation within those communities. And Fannie and her team and NCRC have been working very hard to build trust within those communities. But to your question, in terms of what I could change, it really would be about kind of front loading our services. Being in this space, it has become really obvious that there is a lack of services or a lack of access to services for youth who don't find themselves in the justice system. For youth who are just kind of going to school every day and going about their business, it's not until they've had police contact, they have a referral, then all of a sudden it's like, well, here are all these opportunities that you can access. Here are counseling and therapeutical services. Here's some pro social activities. Here are educational advocacy. To Fannie's point, so many families don't know that they have access to educational advocates. They don't know that until they come within our system, they find themselves in JDI or within the court system. Which is kind of why I appreciate JDI so much is because again, the early intervention, we can give them these things, these services before they find themselves in the court system. And once they're in the court system, again, they have access to the services. But it feels like the priority is getting them off of probation. They are going to do what they need to do to get off of probation. It's not about growth and empathy and actual change. It is what do I need to do so I don't have to come to court again, I don't have to call my probation officer. I just need to get off of probation. Which is why I think we have to figure out how we're engaging with our youth in the community before, before they even find themselves involved with any kind of justice system, whether it be jdi, police contact or with the court. When you look at it and you think about all the youth who once they are engaged in the system and then continue on with the services even after they're off probation, sometimes they enjoy it, they enjoy the mentorship and they continue that after they're off of probation. If they had access to this before they found themselves in the justice system, how many lives could we impact? How many kids could we completely keep out of the justice system if we were giving them these services early on? So that is one of my biggest things that I wish we could change is we need to provide services or access to services, get them to these services very early on before they even find themselves in any way touching our system.
- [47:07]
C
And Fannie, take us out. The last message you would like to leave with the audience.
- [47:12]
A
So if anybody who's listening to this podcast is inspired to maybe look into a diversion program in their own neighborhood, you know, or if they're a stakeholder wanting to maybe start something, one thing I would say is don't be afraid. It does take a lot of work, but don't be afraid. Once someone starts asking about interest, they will discover that there's more people that share their desire to help our youth than not. The other thing I will also say is that before going into working with youth, the individuals have to train themselves on trauma informed approaches. I think I learned early on in 2013, working with the adult cross criminal justice system is very different than working with youth. And with youth, they're smart, they can smell when we're not authentic. So I always like to say we need to listen first before we act. We need to be open minded to understanding other people's perspectives. And what I mean is perspectives from community leaders. Even if sometimes it's hard to listen, we need to listen and then listen. Listening to the youth, listening to schools, listening to law enforcement.
- [48:28]
D
Right?
- [48:29]
A
Law enforcement's out there, they're having face to face. We always want to make sure that for us in San Diego, that law enforcement understands JDI exists so that we can hopefully again lessen that risk to recidivate so they don't have to deal with that same youth over and over again. So it's all about impacting so that we're doing all this work up front, like Samara mentioned, so that we can have better outcomes for everyone. Right? So let law enforcement deal with the more serious violent cases. Hopefully the schools, teachers go back to teaching and not disciplining. Right. And the court system and probation using their limited resources to deal with those youth who have had preventative programming and it showed they needed more, they need a higher level. So again, this is all to say that here in San Diego, Samir and I, we welcome if anybody is interested in kind of reaching out, we're always happy to share what we can with others.
- [49:27]
C
We hope that they reach out to you because I'd like to credit the fact that to your discipline, to the field, to your community in particular. I think you're an enormous credit. We've appreciated the opportunity to get to know you. We're thrilled that you took the time to share with us your dedicated and passionate work. And we think that you have successfully shared the tenets of success for a really comprehensive diversion approach in any community. So I'll close with just a mere thank you. We appreciate it.
- [49:58]
B
Thank you for listening today. Before we go, we have two exciting announcements to share with you. First, at the conclusion of our national symposium in June of this year, we officially announce that we have changed our name. We are now the National Resource center for the Transformation of Youth Justice, a program of the RFK Community Alliance. Second, we will be offering a free 60 minute webinar on October 6th to explore how jurisdictions can build a comprehensive array of diversion responses and approaches that strengthen community and agency partnerships and provide measurable and sustainable positive outcomes. For more information and to register, please visit our website@rfknrcjj.org as always, we would love to know what you think about the podcast. To share your ideas and input, please email us at rfknrcjfkcommunity.org and to stay connected, follow us on our LinkedIn page at NationalResourceCenter. For the transformation of each Youth Justice.