← Youth Justice Transformation in Action
Youth Justice Transformation in Action
Growth-Focused Case Management: Achieving Desistance through Positive Identity Formation
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- [00:00]
Jonathan Cloud
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Jody Martin
Welcome to Season three of Youth Justice Transformation in Action. We are the RFK National Resource center for Juvenile justice and we're on a mission to transform the youth justice system by partnering with people like you who are passionate about improving outcomes for youth, families and communities you serve. I'm Jody Martin, Deputy Executive Director.
- [00:27]
John Toole
And I'm John Toole, Executive Director. As we embark on Season three of Youth Justice Transformation in Action, we're diving deeper into crucial areas that shape our approach to juvenile justice. This season, we're thrilled to explore special topics that have a profound impact on the lives of young people within the justice system, including the complexities of emerging adults, the pivotal role of family engagement, the transformative power of Growth Focused case management, and many more. Through insightful discussions, expert interviews and real life stories, we aim to shed light on innovative practices, challenges and opportunities in the realm of youth justice. Together, let's continue our journey toward creating a more fair, just and supportive system for our youth, families and communities.
- [01:14]
Jody Martin
In today's episode, Growth Focused Case Achieving Desistance Through Positive Identity Formation, John interviews our longtime friend and guest Jonathan Cloud, the creator of Growth Focused Youth Justice Case Management. They dive into how GFCM is reshaping youth justice by helping young people develop positive identities that steer them away from harmful behaviors. Jonathan walks us through the principles, practices and real world impacts outlined in the GFCM guidebook. Stay tuned to discover how this framework is making a lasting difference in the lives of young people in the justice system. John, over to you.
- [01:50]
John Toole
Greetings everyone and welcome to the podcast episode featuring the Growth Focus Case Management and its creator and author, Jonathan Cloud. Jonathan is a professional friend of mine who I've known for nearly three decades. I began to work with Jonathan in the field as he was a consultant supporting the Comprehensive Strategy for Serious Chronic Violent Juvenile Offenders, a national initiative that reached out to more than 50 jurisdictions across the country. I came to know him as knowledgeable, committed, passionate. Jonathan was always prepared as a trainer and facilitator. He had beautiful command of the youth justice content that he was delivering. He was eminently relatable to practitioners and leaders alike. A quality that I have always admired in any professional is that they are curious to learn more. And Jonathan applied that curiosity to how he could improve youth justice and outcomes for youth. Welcome. Jonathan, you mind sharing a little bit more in the introduction of you and your current role and experience in the field?
- [02:52]
Jonathan Cloud
Yeah. John, thank you so much. I appreciate it and I concur. It's good to be doing this with you and our friendship does go back a ways. And you took me down memory lane with that comprehensive strategy for Violent Serious Chronic Offenders. That's, that's where we meet, where we met prior to that. And you got me thinking about how long I've been doing this work, which is 40 years. I can't believe it's 40. The first 10 of those before I began doing this federal level consulting, I did case management administration work and mental health, child welfare, youth justice, foster care reform and youth development casework, running agencies, director, deputy director. And then one day I just got antsy and said I want to try consulting. And that's a long story that we have zero time to get into. But it did end up with me becoming a consultant and doing training and technical assistance not only for the Office of Juvenile justice and Delinquency Prevention, which is the organization in the Department of Justice that did the comprehensive strategy, but also for the Department of Labor, Department of Defense, Health and Human Services and Department of Education. And while all that was going on in these last 30 years, I have also been doing quite a bit of training. No longer at this point, but extensively with the national center for Missing and Exploited Children and the National Criminal Justice Training Center. And in all of these initiatives, I was zeroing in on what I now consider to be my subject matter expertise, which is child and youth development. And I was applying it to various venues in all of those areas. And now since 2020, I've only been doing growth focused case management. That is my current role. It's the first time since beginning my consultant work over this 30 year period of time that I've had only one thing to be concerned about. When I wake up in the morning. Usually I've got multiple contracts with multiple organizations, but the last four years have been about growth focused case management, which we are here to talk about today. So it's good to be here indeed.
- [04:55]
John Toole
Thank you, Jonathan. We are going to talk about that in great detail and I hope the audience can learn about its significant benefit to the field of youth justice and, and more importantly, what you and I both share. Significant benefit to the youth and their families that we serve in communities across the nation. I'll admit I wasn't sure about the previous 10 years and maybe didn't know the total number of years, but that background is probably why we were drawn to each other in our work. I had a history of working as a practitioner in Fairfax County, Virginia in the juvenile and delinquency system, and I think that background always serves us well as we grow through our Professional careers. That still doesn't answer maybe a preliminary question that I think the audience would love to hear. What originally drew you to the field, particularly drew you to the focus of interest in youth justice.
- [05:46]
Jonathan Cloud
I have dove into the research and the literature on human growth and development. I don't know why that began to attract me in my 20s, but it is why I majored in psychology. I want to know more about that sort of thing. And so what drew me to the field as I began to understand human growth and development and not just the problems, not just abnormal psychology and what we break down, but I've been more drawn to our potential as human beings, not only as individuals, but as groups and societies. And what is it that holds us back from realizing our potential because of how incredibly weird design and what our brains can do and what our human capacities can be? That's something that has driven me. And so when I looked at that, I realized that adolescence, John, is the most dynamic, most complex, most extraordinary stage of human development and the most consequential all development prior to it. Childhood is preparing for the gigantic task of adolescence, which is forming an identity. And all the development after adolescence is about now carrying that identity forward and refashioning it and reforming it. So that's the period of time packed with possibilities and peril. And so youth in the justice system are those youth who are struggling with some of the perils they're not quite able to navigate. And that's what just drew me in. And in these last couple of decades with our risk assessment work, we're doing a much better job pinpointing those perils with precision. And so I'm excited now about being able to say what drives me, why I do what I do is we now have the science that compares with the risk science. And what drives me, what gets me up in the morning, is blending those two things together so that we can help youth overcome their perils and, and then realize their possibilities expertly expressed and.
- [07:49]
John Toole
Obviously with the passion you bring each time we interact about this opportunity to realize those possibilities and the potential for every youth. All the youth that enter the youth justice system are facing some sort of consequence that may imperil their ability to realize those possibilities. And you have in an extraordinary way developed a methodology to ensure that those possibilities are realized. And I guess that's the bridge to ask, just straightforward. So what is growth focused case management? Jonathan?
- [08:23]
Jonathan Cloud
Love it. Love it. A two part answer. The first one is I'm going to just say here's what it is, and then Our listeners are going to wonder, well, how in the world does that work? And that's going to be part two. Here's how it works. So I tell you what it is. I'm going to say, and here's how that works. Growth focused case management is a framework. I want to underline that. It's not a model. It's not something you've got to operate with fidelity to. It's not something you've got to do to exact detail. It's not a model. It's a framework that guides and assists youth justice practitioners. Because now not everyone is saying probation officers anymore. So I'm just going to use the term youth justice practitioners. It guides them in carrying out their routine duties and tasks in a manner that supports youth with their primary developmental task of forming a positive identity. And we now know from that science that I love delving into that identity is empirically correlated with desisting from offending rather than persisting and offending. So that's what it is. Let me say it again and then I'll break it down. It is a framework that guides and assists youth justice practitioners in doing their routine duties and tasks in a manner that supports youth with their primary developmental task of forming a positive identity, the doing of which fosters desistance. Now, let me just say as a side note that one of the key reasons why that is important is because mountains of research has looked at what I like to describe as the unintended negative effects of formal processing in the youth justice system. This is not a knock on youth justice workers. They are passionate people who believe in their work and who do it well. But we also know from the research there's a thing called iatrogenic effects. Big fancy word, iatrogenic effects. All it means is the way we do what we do is contributing to or causing the problem we're trying to solve. That's all it means. So there's something that's going on in how we interact with youth and work with youth informal processing that unintentionally causes them to reoffend. The bulk of that research says that a lot of what we do causes them to view themselves negatively and disrupts and interferes with their ability to form a positive identity. So that's the other piece of this framework. It helps to counter those unintended negative effects. And for the youth justice workers out there, y'all, with those heavy duty caseloads, what that means for you, Is this how it works that I'm about to explain to you? It's Going to help make you more effective. So how does it work? Since that's the framework. How does it work? Just hit this. The guidebook laces out beautifully and there's a whole section that lays out what I call the four phases of growth focused case management. But I'll just give you the snapshot here, which is this. We help youth justice practitioners learn to do four things to integrate into what they're doing. I'm just going to give you four quick terms. Work with the youth in a way to help them explore, discover, believe and hang in there. So just remember that. Explore, discover, believe, hang in there. Let me break it down for you. First thing is when you're working with the youth, help them explore their interest, their, their abilities, their possibilities, the kind of person they can become while you're doing the work that you have to be doing with them. While you're talking with him, walking with him to the courtroom, doing your interview. We do training with you to integrate interactions and facilitations and ways to use services that help them explore who they can become and that in turn supports the long term goal of the case plan. And I want you to hear that connection because what it means is the way you work with them also creates your case plan. And so that's the first thing, help them explore as you're doing what you're doing as you're working with them. The second thing, while you're doing your routine duties, help them discover what it is about them that stands between who they are and the non offending positive person they hope to become. This is where your risk assessment information is extremely helpful because those risk domains, it's identifying substance, youth and antisocial peers, help them discover their strengths as well as the things that are barriers, what moves you towards you want to have your own business one day and be a business owner. Sounds good. In Hennepin County, Minnesota, one young lady said I, I want to work in a NASCAR pit crew. Loved it when it comes to this, the resources, the ideal self. There's no wrong ideal self. The power is they're thinking about who they can be and it's called future orientation. But then you say let's discover where you are now and how to get there. Well, this getting high all the time and getting into fights and jacking cars is not going to get you into the NASCAR pit crew. So help them to discover that that support your case plan's short term goals. So explore, discover, believe. The third thing you've got to do is work with them in a way that they believe I can actually get through these barriers, that I can get off drugs, that I can stop getting into fights. I can do this, you know, and I might have to be in detention because of it, but after that, I can get past all of this, help them believe that, and that informs the case. Plan action steps. You're going to work with them to develop small practical steps. And then the fourth thing is work with them in a way that helps them hang in there. This is generally when they're on probation so that they actually attain those goals. And so explore, discover, believe, and hang in there. And in the guidebook, when you read through it, we describe those four things as our overarching practices. When you're helping them explore, we call it facilitating self exploration. When you're helping them discover, we call it facilitating self discovery. When you're helping them believe that they can change, we call it facilitating self efficacy. And when you're helping them hang in there and reach those goals, we call that facilitating self realization.
- [14:50]
John Toole
You've referenced the guidebook, and it really does articulate in detail the framework that you've referenced. So as listeners are digesting all that you just said, that framework is woven together to depict the set of activities that produce the change in behavior that youth justice practitioners are increasingly expected to. To promote. I'm going to use a quote of yours that is reflected in that guidebook. But all of this is to achieve the end state that protects community safety by setting youth on a path to forming positive identities that are incompatible with offending. It makes it a great challenge for anyone to argue against this approach, particularly since it's so foundationally established, Jonathan, by existing research and how you've interpreted that research to draw together this GFCM framework.
- [15:45]
Jonathan Cloud
Yeah, very, very much appreciate that, John. And, and that that first piece is where that non offending, that identity that is incompatible with offending Start must first be able to see who they can be. And that becomes a future self identity. That is the beginning of it. And as an aside, it's always amazing in these jurisdictions when I say that they think it's just some idea I came up with. And then when I share with them, there's actual research saying that, saying this, this future of who I can see. One of my favorite research articles is is title is Vividness of Future Self Predicts Delinquency. That is how vividly this young lady can see herself working in a NASCAR pit crew. She's less likely to engage in offending if she sees it clearly and believes she can get there. That's powerful.
- [16:34]
John Toole
It is powerful. And again, there are some occasions that youth justice practitioners say, oh, that's research. I'm working in the practical, real world. The research is woven together to create a set of activities so they can practically apply them to achieve the outcomes all of our youth justice practitioners seek. And that's a positive future identity for a positive future contribution to the community without an offending pattern. Clear up for the audience. I think sometimes there may be a lack of clarity, but why don't you define for us what is desistance and how that differs from recidivism?
- [17:12]
Jonathan Cloud
Great, great. And there's a lot of confusion on this one, and I'm going to make it tight and very, very succinct. And the guidebook lays out some of our favorite research in terms of where that comes from and what it looks like. So for those who are interested in this, do read that section carefully. But think of it this way. Event or process? Recidivism is an event. Resistance is a process. So recidivism, the event is this, did you reoffend or not? End of conversation. That's recidivism. There's a hundred ways to measure it, and jurisdictions come up with a thousand different ways to measure it. And people say this, and we know all those discussions, but which way you measure it? The question is, did you reoffend or not? And that's called a binary measure. It's either, or did you do it or did you not? Binary. That's from the research. The event decisions is a process. And the reason a binary measure like recidivism is inadequate is because behavior change is a multifaceted process. It involves a lot of stuff. Thinking differently, getting good connections, having the right opportunities. It involves a lot of stuff, and it takes time. So it is a process. So desistance is defined as the process of ceasing engagement in delinquent criminal behavior. And that's from the National Institutes of Justice, by the way, our federal government, which is now funding research on desistance. And I think this is coming where we are headed in the work that we're doing. And so the question that GFCM looks at in terms of desistance is it asks what might that path look like if they're on the path to desisting, what might the beginning of it look like? And what might it look like as they're making progress towards that, as our researchers say, and as the National Institutes of Justice say on the way they might. Here we go. They might Recidivate. But are they on the path? Are they on their way there? Are they moving towards that? And we have come up with what we refer to as a number of markers that say at least if these things are happening, even if they reoffend, they're on this path to desisting. And by the way, I think that desistance, once fully understood, is going to be a refreshing thing for youth justice workers. Being held to the standard of them not reoffending for some of these youth, given the backgrounds they're coming from, is a nearly impossible task for some of our youth.
- [19:44]
John Toole
Those markers of desistance help us map the progress while acknowledging that there may be recidivist behavior. But again, if we apply the science for adolescent development, adolescent brain science, it is the most malleable period for young people, adolescents and youth to change that pattern of behavior. If we're supporting the change of that behavior towards desistance, there may be potholes along the way. We still are required to be an agent of that change if we're to accomplish our goal of giving them the future that they seek.
- [20:18]
Jonathan Cloud
Love it. Love it. Well stated, John. Well stated. One of our jurisdictions, in fact, has taken those markers and has found, and this is Hennepin county again. And Hennepin County, Minnesota, found a outcome evaluation instrument. They found it in the United Kingdom. They looked around our country and couldn't find anything because general probation departments don't track positive outcomes. We just want to know, did you do it again or not? But they're tracking positive outcomes. Like, are you connecting with positive people? Are you beginning to show more self control? Are you exercising some future thinking about where you're going next? They are looking at positive results. And how awesome would it be to capture the success that many of our youth justice workers are having? But they're not getting credit for those successes simply because they reoffended. They re offended. So you didn't do a good job. Yeah, but maybe they did get one or two good positive connections and maybe they did do some things that put them on the path that gets washed away when we're only using a recidivism outcome measure.
- [21:18]
John Toole
So, Jonathan, we could speak in great detail. There's so many more questions I want to ask you, and I'm going to get to as many as I can in the time we have together. I think I'd just ask, is there a danger of overemphasizing external control with punitive sanctions? How would you react to that?
- [21:35]
Jonathan Cloud
Yeah, yeah, I would say there is. But I want to say, I don't want to be very, very clear that there is a time for external controls. Absolutely. I was with a group of judges about a month and a half ago and I talked with him sort of about this and said the reason I love developmental science is because it's not being used to go easy on youth. There are times when we need to put in very strict external controls when we understand that their development is moving in a very negative and dangerous direction. And so it doesn't shut that down. So youth who are chronic and violent offenders, yes, they there needs to be external control. The problem is in the way you ask the question is overemphasis on it. We don't move beyond that. And the research gives us a number of things to think about, but the primary one is approach motivation versus avoidance motivation. Wonderful research on that. And if all I'm supposed to do is, is avoid getting into trouble because of all these external controls and surveillance, watching me, watching me, don't, don't, don't. That has negative effects on health and well being. Whereas approach motivation, tell me what to go towards as well. I know what I need to stop. But also give me this thing to go after. How do I go after becoming my own business owner one day while I'm not associating with antisocial peers, while I got this angle bracelet on, what can I do to start moving towards something? So you've got to get approach motivation in there as well. And the other thing that I would add that very, very, very quickly is in the guidebook we lay out some guiding principles. One of those guiding principles is that adolescent brain development, a sense of autonomy is essential. And the research, the term they use for that is your causality orientation. I know that's a weird word, causality orientation. All it means is when I do what I do, is it because of somebody making me do it or is it because I want to do it? That's all it means, right? Autonomy says that the adolescent brain needs to feel that they have some control over what's going on in their lives. And if autonomy is completely ripped away, we undermine their capacity to develop a positive identity.
- [23:44]
John Toole
Really well articulated, Jonathan. Many of the current approaches to reform are met with resistance from long standing youth justice practitioners, arguing frequently there is no accountability for youth. This doesn't speak to the lack of accountability. What you've just spoken to, in simplest terms is a balance of sanctions and incentives to promote the positive behavior change that will achieve a universally shared goal of accountability, reduction in risk to reoffend a pattern of positive opportunities for their future and thus contributing to community safety. I hope that what you convey I know in the guidebook it's conveyed in that method and what you're sharing today help helps people understand and its totality. It's a balance of all factors that we find when we increase the likelihood that we'll be successful with each individual youth.
- [24:35]
Jonathan Cloud
I love that. And two researchers concur with you on that. And they use the same research called the possible selves research. Daphne or wrote a powerful article many, many years ago that is that's really set me on this path that I'm on right now when it comes to looking at future and it's called possible selves and delinquency and what she g and Ray Patanaster in his work around the identity based theory of desistance, both of them say that you got to have the balance and the balance is this. I want to know what my feared self is, but I want to know what my hope for ideal stuff is and when I'm clear on what I don't want to become. And that's what those external controls and heavy duty sanctions are. You want to be in detention for the rest of your life? You want this forever? No, I don't want this forever. But it's got to be balanced with who I hope to become. And we've got to emphasize both. Both have to work together.
- [25:25]
John Toole
And Jonathan, you built this on a foundation of existing research, existing practice and the recognition that a risk need responsivity approach of screening and assessment to understand these youth risk and needs is not something different from gfcm but rather GFCM is an enhancement to the R and R approach. Can you elaborate on that for a moment?
- [25:48]
Jonathan Cloud
Yeah, I love that because that Frank was my start point because in this 30 years of work I've been doing, I was one of those people out there hitting the pavement along with you, helping jurisdiction move down this path of adopting these risk assessment instruments and utilizing that framework. And so I absolutely believe in it what GFCM does. And there is a chart in the GFCM guidebook that really lays this out. And I'll just hit it very quickly. What GFCM does is it looks at that right, risks, needs, responsive approach, chunks it into four groups of things that you got to do and then says here's how this growth focused approach enhances it. And it goes like this. One of the first things you got to do is assess risk to re offend, gotta do things like interviewing Youth investigations, pre screens, report writing, whatever GFCM says. While you're doing that, engage with them in a way that establishes rapport, a sense of safety, and that builds a positive view of self and who they see themselves becoming. And then the guidebook gives you how that enhances current practice. And we won't get into that here, but I'm just sharing with you, that's how it works. And so as a quick example, in Hennepin county, once again their front end investigations unit, they have to do interviews. All right? So youth come in, they go through this GFCM training and they said, well, got to do interviews. But the one thing our interviews is not doing that GFCM says it ought to be doing is we're not helping the youth from a positive view of self or imagine who they can become. We're just hammering them with a bunch of questions on what they did, why they did it and what's wrong with you. So all they did, they just designed a new interview instrument that asked questions in a different way, that didn't label, that didn't make them feel negative. And then they went out and found this simple one page thing called My Future Self in which they had youth fill it out. Took like 10 minutes. And the young people were like all excited about describing who they wanted to be. So now their investigation is still investigating, still getting the fact pattern information, but it's doing it in a way that, that's enhanced. I won't give you that much information for the next ones. But the other three categories is you've got to identify criminogenic needs, tasks like assessments, risks and needs referrals, crisis intervention, we call that assessing and discovering. And what you need to do there is carry that out in a way that makes the information pertinent to the youth, impertinent to their behavior, who they are now and who they can become in the future. And so that risk assessment isn't just saying here's how dangerous you are and here's a risk level to offend. It's actually saying here is the things you need to know about yourself. In fact, one probation officer said, when I do the risk assessment, you know how I introduce it to the young person? I said, how? He goes, now we're going to sit down and figure out what we need to do to get you where you got to go. And the kid goes, okay. And that, that's their assessment. And they use the, I think it's a yls. They use that and that's the assessment goes through all those questions, but now they're experiencing it differently. Third thing you have to do is you got to match services called service responsivity. We say do that in a way that identifies priorities and services that can be delivered in order to support the youth, not only in dealing with their barriers, but in becoming who they want to become in the the future. And then the fourth group of activities is supervision while they're on probation to manage risk, to reoffend. And there we say, while you're doing that, view that not only as a time to make sure they don't reoffend, but work with them in a way that sees the probation period as about providing an on ramp to their journey toward adulthood, not just consequences for offending. We're going to get you going. We're going to take these six, eight, nine months and put you on the track to become a business owner one day. So it takes all that work that we do in the RNR and says keep doing it, keep doing it. But here's some tweaks and some nuances to add to it so that it doesn't have those atrogenic effects.
- [29:40]
John Toole
And the research would suggest just that. Tweak at that particular stage of our interaction with the youth, with the family too, as the collateral context for the R approach, may alter the outcome that we achieve. Yes, may contribute to desistance, the long term desistance of the pattern of offending. Marvelous. Jonathan Captured. I've just got a couple more questions. We're running out of time. First, I would premise this question with recognizing for our listeners the gfcm. We've made significant reference to the youth justice practitioners. This is supportive of a collaborative approach that engages the judges, the litigants, both on both sides, defense attorneys, prosecuting attorneys, providers. So with that premise, your overarching goals for the gfcm, the growth focused case management that you would articulate, what are the outcomes that we can achieve by using this approach? Jonathan?
- [30:35]
Jonathan Cloud
Love it, love it. In terms of goals, I can just state those simply and then I share with you the outcomes that we are pushing toward. And I love the way that you preface that by talking about how this is interwoven with the R framework. So it's not a standalone. So as a result, the GFCM goals basically adopts what I refer to as four of the primary goals of youth justice practice in and of itself, and then it has a goal in relation to each. The first goal of youth justice practice is accountability. And so the first goal of GFCM is to Increase youth capacity to be accountable. And when they start seeing who they can become, that adds another layer to accountability. Yes, you got to be accountable to the authorities, but do you see what you can do with your life? You got to be accountable to that. The second is compliance. That's what the system wants and it's very important for community safety. And so a second goal is increasing their capacity to comply with directives. And that's becoming internally motivated. The third goal is behavior change. So it's increasing their capacity to change is the third goal. And when you become motivated by who you can become, that increases the likelihood of behavior change. The research I referred to earlier, Daphne Orman, she has a wonderful now it's a booklet out called Identity Based Motivation. And that internal motivation holds you longer than just external motivation. And then the fourth goal is community safety. We've got to keep our community safe. And we want to increase the youth's capacity to actually contribute to community safety. When they're learning these things and when they're seeing what they can be, we're increasing the community's human capital. And so those are the four goals, helping youth become youth. Increase their capacity for accountability, compliance, behavior change, and community safety. And the outcomes that we're after are very simple and straightforward. And we've referred to these as our markers of desistance. We want them to learn to have positive connections. That's a primary outcome and a marker that they are desisting. We want them to demonstrate psychosocial maturity, which involves self control and taking responsibility. That's a good marker that you're on the path. We want them to demonstrate moral agency. That is a sense of giving, character, caring. That's an important marker towards desisting. And the fourth outcome we're after is that they engage in positive roles as a part of their own identity, that they're moving towards some. Some commitment. And we're doing work to identify specific indicators for each of those. But those markers are the outcomes that drive growth, focused case management.
- [33:30]
John Toole
Jonathan, well stated. Even your last statement, I want to amplify for the audience developing indicators for these markers of desistance, developing indicators for the application of this process that leads to the change in behavior that we're seeking. I think I'd be hard pressed if I were a stakeholder in a community in the youth justice system to find opposition to the goals and the outcomes that you've articulated here, no matter what the role, because it is a compilation of that balance of accountability, positive identity formation, which reduces future risk, reduces future Recidivism provides for community safety. All of the things that I think are part of shared goals and outcomes that youth justice system stakeholders collaboratively seek to achieve. So I see some synergy for the framework with the shared outcomes in a jurisdiction with where there is the collaboration of the stakeholders to increase the likelihood of more positive outcomes for the youth, the families and the community. I'd want you to comment. This is not theory, this is practice. It's based on research, but it's also based on practice. Currently, you are providing ongoing consultation in multiple jurisdictions with the gfcm. There are also some upcoming trainings where you will be provided to additionally new jurisdictions. The approach of the gfcm. I'm curious, I. I hope the audience is curious. Given what you're experiencing in terms of success in implementing the process and the framework and some of the early indicators that would suggest we're achieving some of.
- [35:04]
These markers of success.
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How can one become more familiar or access the TA or the training for the gfcm?
- [35:11]
Jonathan Cloud
Oh, super. I appreciate the question, John. Yes, we have the capacity through the RFK National Resource center for Juvenile justice and my involvement with them to provide that training and technical assistance. And so anyone in the audience interested in receiving that, just contact Jody Martin, who's your number two person. Just say, hey, we're interested, and she'll know how to take the ball and run from there. The guidebook does lay out the actual training and technical assistance process. It has very specific stages and milestones. That said, our approach is to learn a lot about your jurisdiction and then tailor this and tailor the delivery of it to work along with you. So it's not a, it's not a prescriptive model that everybody gets the same thing the same way. But we work with you and make sure this sort of links up with things that you're doing.
- [36:00]
John Toole
Well stated, Jonathan, and thank you. We certainly see the value of this at the RFK National Resource center and want to export opportunities for jurisdictions to realize these outstanding outcomes through a really well articulated process. I want to correct one thing for the record. Jody Martin is the Deputy Executive Director at the RFK National Resource center, but she's our number one person and.
- [36:24]
Jonathan Cloud
Well, you know what, John, in response that I can say that the way she assisted me, guided me and co authored the guidebook with me, I'm going to have to agree with you. Okay. She's definitely number one one in my book.
- [36:34]
John Toole
Indeed. And contact can be made directly with her, as you've articulated, or with me. We certainly want to support the opportunity for this work to be exported more broadly across the country as we move forward. Jonathan, I'll ask you to close with this. It's just to give a little bit of the inner self that I've come to know and so appreciate. What is it? One thing, if you could change it about youth justice as it is right now, what would that be?
- [36:59]
Jonathan Cloud
And you could probably appreciate this. I would say if I could go into the brains of all these youth justice workers out there and instill in all of them, especially management and supervisors, a strong emphasis on innovation and continuous improvement. That, that, that would be my thing. If you. If we just don't buy into this. But we've been doing it this way for 15 years and everybody knows how to do it. And this is the way it's been working. Innovation and improvement. I was in Virginia doing some work and their state agency presented after me, so I can't steal this line from them, but they had a slide that captures it. New evidence demands new practices. We've got the research now. We have the science that we did not have 20, 30 years ago on brain development, identity formation, desistance that demands now some innovation and some improvement. So I'd say if we could just flip a switch in their brain and just say innovation and improvement, that's not a bad word. And what you've been doing for 15 years is not bad. We're just going to make it better.
- [38:02]
John Toole
One thing that we know, Jonathan, with our combined numbers of years of experience, which I won't add a number to at this particular juncture, is that the only thing that is constant is change. And if that change is informed by the research that you just referenced or innovative new approaches that are demonstrating positive results, I would echo your thought and hope that we can at least examine and explore with curiosity, how might we do better and is this GFCM a real opportunity for us to explore that could produce that outcome? Jonathan Cloud, it's a pleasure, always a pleasure, listening to you articulate with passion and clarity the concepts, the research, the practical application of operations that can enhance youth outcomes. I know you and I care very deeply about that and those listening to this podcast do as well. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us. I look forward to continuing our relationship around the GFCM and all of our efforts that support positive youth outcomes.
- [39:04]
Jonathan Cloud
Appreciate it, John. Thank you very much.
- [39:07]
Jody Martin
Thank you for joining us today. We're thrilled to announce the release of the Growth Focused Youth Justice Case Management Guidebook, now available on our website at www.rfknrcjj.org. this comprehensive resource dives into the research methods and practical applications that foster positive behavior change within a structured framework aiming for desistance from future delinquent and criminal behavior. All our publications, including this guidebook, are accessible for free on our website to support the transformation of Youth justice in communities everywhere. We value your feedback on today's episode and invite you to connect with us on social media. You can find links to our website, contact information, and social media handles in the show. Notes. Thank you for listening to Youth Justice Transformation in Action.
- [40:07]
John Toole
SA.