← Youth Justice Transformation in Action
Youth Justice Transformation in Action
The Essential Role of the Judge in Youth Justice Transformation (ft. Hon. Thomas P. Sotelo)
00:43:56
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- [00:00]
John Toole
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Jody Martin
Welcome to Season two of Youth Justice Transformation in Action. We are the RFK National Resource center for Juvenile justice and we are on a mission to transform the youth justice system by partnering with people like you who are passionate about improving outcomes for youth families and communities you serve. I'm Jody Martin.
- [00:24]
John Toole
And I'm John Toole. This season we are excited to highlight jurisdictions across the country who partnered with us through the OJJDP funded Denison Mondoro Probation and Juvenile Justice System Enhancement Project. You will learn about their experiences, including their challenges, innovative solutions and valuable lessons learned, and have an opportunity to explore how their successful reform efforts may be replicated within your state or local community.
- [00:50]
Jody Martin
In today's episode, the Essential Role of the Judge in Youth Justice Transformation, John speaks with our guest Judge Thomas P. Satelo, Chief Judge of Fairfax County Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court. Judge Sotelo shares his perspective on judicial leadership, hope and redemption, the importance of transparency, and embracing research to inform best practices and improve youth outcomes and system performance. Thank you for joining us.
- [01:15]
John Toole
Greetings everyone. Welcome to our podcast featuring Chief Judge at Fairfax County's Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court in Virginia, Judge Thomas P. Satelo. Welcome, Judge, it's great to have you with us. Could you provide our audience with just a little bit more on your current role and your background?
- [01:33]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
Well, good morning John. Thank you for the kind invitation to be with you and thank you for the opportunity to share today. So I am one of the eight presiding judges of the court. We're located just outside of Washington D.C. we're part of the Northern Virginia area, part of the Washington D.C. metropolitan area. We have eight presiding judges and I'm currently serving as the Chief Judge of the court in my second stint in that position. I think most important, what I want you to know is I happen to be married to my law school sweetheart, Martha, and we have two adult children, Sarah, who's a cpa, and Anna, who's a second grade teacher. And that's probably the most important thing I want you to know about me. But I'm in my 15th year as a judge. I started on the bench on December 1st of 2008. We're the largest juvenile and Domestic relations district court in in Virginia. We have the most judges, we have the most clerk's office personnel. We have upwards of 300 personnel in our court service unit. So that you kind of understand a little bit about Fairfax County. We're the largest county by population in Virginia, over a million people. The next largest county is Prince William county, which is our neighbor and they're not even half the size of Fairfax county. In terms of our population, that's under 18 years of age, somewhere between 250, 300,000 young people. And if you don't mind, just to talk a little bit about who we are, if you look to our public school system, so the Fairfax county public school systems, that's like one of the largest school divisions in Virginia, last I looked at it was like 198 schools and centers. It's got a population upwards of 200,000, pre kindergarten at 12, and incredibly diverse. If you look at our economically disadvantaged population in the school system, it's about 30%. We have about 15% of youth who are identified with disabilities. About 30% are English learners, are a little under 30%. And then, as you might expect, that diverseness just plays out wherever you look. Just in terms of my own personal background so that people understand, when I came out of law school, I started in a judicial clerkship and I clerked for the chief judge of the Circuit Court of Fairfax County, Judge Richard J. Jamborski, who's now passed, but he himself was a juvenile court judge, then became a circuit court judge, a great influence on me. And then I was in practice, private practice, for about 17 years, doing family law, all things juvenile law, criminal law. I've also represented the county on a contract basis in terms of the Department of Family Services and dependency proceedings. And then I spent my entire career a part of it, representing the best interests of children before the court as a guardian ad litem, especially in the area of high conflict custody and visitation cases. So I guess that's all things me and, and the court that I serve.
- [04:31]
John Toole
So thank you, Judge. And it tells a lot about you that you opened that with the description of your family as the top priority and probably a shared journey between you and your wife, Martha, to this point. Judge the. The Fairfax County, Virginia, which is a suburban jurisdiction to Washington, D.C. our nation's capital, began a journey nearly a decade ago. A transformational youth justice journey with a realization at its foundation of credible research must inform the set of practices at every key decision point to improve an already positive functioning youth justice system in Fairfax County. I think you would agree with that. Certainly you've played a significant role. How would you describe your role in that effort? What did you see as your responsibility or obligation in driving that, leading that, and being a collaborator among your youth justice stakeholders?
- [05:21]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
Judge, you know, when I think about this, I kind of think of it globally and then, then I kind of think of it everything under sort of a. The global theme, Obviously, from an umbrella perspective, it was one of leadership. When I talk about leadership, in my mind, it's about manifesting inspiration in what it is that we were doing and then evidencing cooperation along the journey. Okay. And I think underneath of this umbrella of leadership, it was presence. It was the power of the robe. I'll kind of talk about that in a moment. I also saw a role of being an educator. I saw a role of being a facilitator, a collaborator. And I think most important, I then saw a role of being a true and living example of what it was that we were talking about. Right. Because we can talk a good game, but if we don't play the good game, it just doesn't mean anything. So in terms of the power of the rogue, you know, when a judge tends to call a meeting, people tend to show up. Even your greatest resisters tend to show up. And so I saw a role in just bringing the stakeholders to the court system together, to just having a conversation, to listening and trying to hear and to learn. I thought part of that role was transparency, being transparent in everything that we were doing, being consistent in being present in those meetings and being a voice in this meeting, trying to help people, our core stakeholders, sort of find their investment in what it was that we were. We were doing or to find their way in what. What it was that we were doing. So I think that overall, it was one of leadership, but it was all those things under leadership.
- [07:07]
John Toole
Well, I can't thank you enough for sharing all those components of the role that you've played. It will be impossible for me to hide for this audience my regard for your efforts in all of those roles. I'll be transparent about that. But I'd also mention, Judge, that, you know, I'm familiar with many of the staff with whom you work for prior work with that staff in projects, but also with my former position there now, some two decades ago, there are still many of those staff present. And you bring all of those skills with a humility that allows you to interact and be respected by those staff. I think that's a critical part of your success, in my humble estimation. I'm curious, Judge, was there a highlight moment that launched your commitment into this arena and into these multiple roles that you played to drive the journey forward in Fairfax County?
- [07:58]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
You know, I really think that part of answering this question is also kind of what draws me to be a part of it. Right. And then probably, overall, why is it that I do what it is That I do. And I think for me there's really two components to this answer. And I'll tell you, being in my 15th year, I'm getting much more reflective as the days pass. I think there are forces here that are both internal to me and, and then I think there are forces that are external that really impacted why it is that I do what it is that I do. And I don't think that I can point to one thing, but I think that I can point to a series of things. So the first is, if you haven't figured out by now in your interaction with me, I'm a pretty optimistic person. And when I talk about being an optimistic person, what I'm talking about is that I am hopeful and confident about the future. I will tell you though that after 33 years in the legal profession and in this field, I've been dealt a pretty, I think, good dose of pessimism. And so I think my, my optimism is moderated and realistically based. But at the same time, at the end of the day, I do believe, and I just don't want to throw this word out there, but it's the only word that I, I can find to sort of give to you, which is I do believe in hope. When I'm talking about hope, what I'm talking about is an understanding that my future can actually be a bright, a good looking place, a better place than necessarily what I've already experienced to date, and that I actually have a role to play in what that looks like. When I talk to the kids that I work with in the courtroom, I talk to them, hey, can you give me a dream? Can you give me a vision? Can you give me a goal? I don't, I don't care where on the spectrum it is. It could be related to your family, could be related to schooling, it could be related to a career, it could be related to an activity. Just give me something, right? And once they give me that goal, you know, then I'm talking to them about, can you talk to me about what it is that you believe that you need to do in order to be in pursuit of this goal or this dream or this vision that you have? Can you identify people in your life that you can wrap yourself around with who want to know what your dreams, visions and goals are and can be supportive services to you pursuing those things that you need to do in order to even get the chance of, of meeting out your dream or your vision? And then the last question is, do you have the heart to set about the journey in order to get the possibility to achieve this goal or this vision that you have. I think also I want this to come across in the right way, which is, I believe in redemption. I believe that I'm human. I believe that I'm flawed. I believe that I can fall. I believe that we all fall. The question is not that we fall, and the question is, how do we respond on those occasions when we fall? And that we have the ability to stand up, articulate, going a different way, pursuing the means to go that different way, and putting the motivation and energy to going that different way and moving forward. I think also a big part of the internal force is just that I see a calling to be part of something bigger than myself. And I talk to my kids in the courtroom about this all the time. You know, I talk about the fact that the world doesn't revolve around me, that I'm part of something bigger. I'm part of a family. I'm part of a school. I'm part of a community and part of the world. And the question really is, what can I contribute to that, as opposed to what can I bring to it or contribute to it, as opposed to just being focused on myself? I think it's also my sense of responsibility to the position that I hold. You know, I was appointed to my position. I'm subject to reappointment every six years. You know, I exist for the position. The position doesn't exist for me. And I think when I leave, you know, I do think about how the question will be answered. What did he do when he was in the position? How did he leave the position? And, you know, hopefully they'll say that I took great care of it when I occupied it, and I nurtured it, and I left it better than when I went when I got here.
- [12:26]
John Toole
What I think you've highlighted there is both the hope and hopefulness as we work with our stakeholders, and then the clear goal that we must aspire, and that is to inspire hope among the youth that we serve. So on both levels, I think you succeed in conveying that among your professional colleagues and certainly in your courtroom. And I appreciate you highlighting that. Just fundamentally, we have to inspire that hope if we're to move this youth justice system toward a better method of practice and better outcomes. I really appreciate that in that role, you also establish some priorities. Your leadership requires that you help establish and drive some priorities. How would you identify the top couple of priorities that you've driven for Fairfax County's youth justice transformation in Reflection.
- [13:14]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
The top priority was transparency. As we go about this journey that we're on, we are trying to be transparent in everything that we're doing. Continual disclosure of what is going on in the journey. Not only disclosure, but stakeholder involvement in the journey, that they're part of the projects and so that they really understand what it is that we're doing. We are constantly trying to get feedback and to also look to data and disclosing that for good or for bad as we go about this journey. The top priority has always been and will continue to be transparency. I think that at the very beginning, we also had a priority of getting system players out of their silos. One of the things that I have really been saying of late is the court, the judiciary, is nothing without all of our other core stakeholders understanding that they're part of who it is that we are. They're a core part of what it is that we're supposed to be about. And if they're not operating at their best or not operating at all, or we're not engaging one another, then, you know, at the end of the day, I'm just a loud, noisy voice with not much substance, right? I can say a lot of things from the benchtop, but the success of what I say or order or decree or. It's really built on everybody around me, right? It's how well do my probation supervision staff do what it is that they're. That they're supposed to do. How well are my service deliverers doing what it is that they're supposed to be doing? And then they need to understand, as part of that, they can't act in a vacuum. And they need to understand that they're part of the system which is dedicated to holding young people accountable, rehabilitating young people, strengthening families, protecting the rights of victims, and protecting community safety. Right? Getting them out of their silos was definitely a priority. And then I think the third biggest priority that we have was education. Right? The best way to sum that up is that at every opportunity we were given a chance to educate. We took that opportunity. We started the Tuesday Juvenile Justice Transformation Group that was a part of the education. We hosted lunch and learn sessions for the bar. We hosted training sessions for the Commonwealth Attorney's office, the public defender's offices, the private defense bar. We created the Northern Virginia Regional Juvenile Justice Transformation Symposium, held every two years, which bring together our regional partners, those counties that touch Fairfax County. It extends to education of law enforcement. You know, this. My day started really early today at 6:30am I'm at the Fairfax County Police Academy because in our collaboration with the leadership of the police department, we have been able to embed a juvenile justice curriculum into the police academy training curriculum. A four hour block. And we presented our portion of that curriculum today. I let off at 7:00 in the morning to class number 83. I think it was so education. And then last it was about messaging. A priority was messaging, right? And the messaging was about demystifying who the core was and is and supposed to be all about. And then making sure people understood what our definition of juvenile justice transformation was all about and making sure that everybody understood where we were.
- [16:58]
John Toole
Judge so here's what I took from that for our audience. You started speaking about transparency and in the whole concept of being able to move an entire system and a system is made up of a set of collaborators, that transparency can be authored through data, through the sharing of data about our system's performance and about the outcomes we're achieving. And you shared about collaboration in your commentary. Judge and leading that collaboration from a judicial role. But it's critical and unfortunately we've seen the worst of these examples where that judicial role is one of edict or mandate and not truly the role that you have played in bringing a team together of collaborators, recognizing that unless we function well as a team, then we're not functioning well at all. You also spoke about the education and that's certainly the training, the training to the understanding of what works best and what our expectations and roles and responsibilities within each of our roles and as a member of a team. And then finally you just mentioned that messaging, the whole notion of communication is often overlooked in our juvenile justice system and we don't do an effective job of communicating to all of our stakeholders and building those relationships. Judge Again, it's going to be hard to hide my favor for how you've driven that leadership. But in those four areas that have repeatedly introduced themselves in our work in the field, you have taken on a leadership role and made those your priorities moving forward. And we can talk about the results at greater length, but it certainly has been evidenced in the results, the positive results for Fairfax county under your leadership. You know, I'm going to grab a specific piece that Judge you are willing to try with your collaborators. Approximately 2018, you may correct me on that. The court service unit of Fairfax county and you and your judiciary adopted a what we call a bifurcated adjudication and disposition court processing methodology. The collaborative effort among your key stakeholders include the creation of a specialized assessment unit with trained expertise among staff in the application of what you guys use in Fairfax, the youth Assessment Screening Instrument, also known as the yazi. And then you separated the adjudication and disposition hearings to ensure consistent application of the finding of that by this specialized unit to inform your court decision making. Now, I know you were swimming upstream, perhaps with some of your judges, certainly with. With some of your attorneys in putting this in place, but can you discuss first how the members of the judiciary came to support the implementation of this successful effort?
- [19:33]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
It was actually prior to 2017, the court's disposition of a youth delinquency matter, and I'm just going to be blunt, was without any understanding, I think, of the risk level of the youth to reoffend at the time of disposition, without any real understanding of whether an identified intervention was actually targeting a specific risk area, without any real information understanding of what information there was about the child, the family, the victim, the community, and how that information was being considered in arriving at the plea agreement. And we weren't really utilizing the available tools that we had, like we have the statutory authority to order an investigation and report, but we weren't doing that. In fact, in our community, if you asked for an investigation and report, that was really a taboo notion because that meant that was somehow the sign that your child was going to be committed to the Department of Juvenile justice, because that was a condition precedent to committing a child to the Department of Juvenile Justice. We weren't really using our youth Assessment screening instrument in the front end. It was without any sense of what were the right. Were we focusing on the right values in how our system was designed? Just for a moment, I just want to talk about. There are lots of values that are important. And I began asking the question, were we prioritizing the right value or were we making it subservient to other values that were important but just shouldn't be? The prioritized value? Part of the values I think we were promoting under our old system was we were valuing, moving our dockets. We were valuing parents not coming back to court with their child and having to take another day off of work. And I think we were valuing that over. Are we making the most informed decision that we can make in disposing of that child's case that came before the court? And were we utilizing every available data and information source in informing us as we went about making on the decision? So Judge Pettit had come on the bench. He was the former chief public defender here in Fairfax County. I sat down with him and had a discussion and he and I proposed to our colleagues about flipping the process. We're going to talk about challenges in a moment, but I think you should expect resistance. And so the way he and I came up with to sort of get over the resistance was we decided to take on the burden. And so we basically worked with our court service unit, the leadership of our court service unit, and we came up with a pilot proposal for a post adjudication predisposition assessment for basically children who were coming into the system for the first time. Our intent, our purpose, our stated goals were to estimate the risk level of a youth to reoffend, to guide intervention recommendations, to target specific risk areas. Why? Because we know that if you don't target the criminogenic factor which led to the child offending and you miss target with your service delivery, you get zero return on, you're reducing the risk of re offending. At least that's my understanding, right?
- [23:04]
John Toole
That's correct. That's what the research says. You're, you're mimicking what the research says about the application of these instruments and certainly the key factors which you were willing to consider in this demonstration project.
- [23:14]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
So we also wanted to provide a standardized method of data gathering for our CSU as we went through this. And we wanted to measure recidivism and better off outcomes for our young people in the pilot. Basically, the pilot was all about can we make sure that all of our stakeholders are accessing what is available information. Let's be fully informed. Once you're fully informed, you advocate in the role in which you play in the system and let's have the most informed decision making occurring. Right.
- [23:49]
John Toole
You've captured all the key pieces, the trained informants, maybe that court staff that can provide the best available, most relevant current information for the litigants and the judges to decide the best case, best task going forward. It helps to right size the probation department or the court service unit in those that actually need the ongoing levels of supervision and which particular services will ameliorate that risk. It helps to filter out some of those standard decisions that are often made that just say this looks like a 12 month probation with these conditions. It helps to inform that and it puts you as judges in the best available position to make the right order on behalf of those youth and those families.
- [24:32]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
Under our code though, not only are we supposed to be making the best decision with respect to the welfare of the child, family rights of victims and public safety, but we're also supposed to be doing it in the least Restrictive way possible. We don't start from the maximum. Just going back though. So we had two courtrooms. We anticipated the original length of the pilot would be six months. I think it actually turned out to be 11 months. We touched 117 youth. Our targeted population was all new delinquent offenses, whether or not the young person had an existing probation officer or no existing probation officer. The process that we followed was following adjudication, whether by trial plea agreement or plea recommendation. And let me just say here we were encouraging our advocates to orient themselves to plea recommendations as opposed to binding agreements. We were also asking our advocates to think about going from specific plea agreements to charge agreements, leaving disposition to the court. After we went through all this, and let me just say that's where we are today. We are getting charge agreements, not plea agreements. Both sides are saying, let's do the investigation report. Let's get the youth assessment screening instrument. Let's get the voice of the victim. Let everybody have this information and let. Then the advocates can advocate and then ultimately the judge is, is making the decision.
- [26:08]
John Toole
Isn't it true that as a result of this, now with all judges adopting this is the process for the court, there are fewer technical violations from this kind of thoughtful process. At the front end, there is an element of right sizing supervision of the youth that need the supervision. So that you are indeed balancing not just concerns of youth and family, but that against your mandate to protect community safety when intervening on behalf of the community and the youth and the families together. And again, that presents challenges for swimming upstream with some disciplines like public defense and prosecution, and even some of the philosophies may be in the probation department, but your orchestration, your leadership, along with Judge Pettit and now all of your judges to get to the place where these are the results.
- [26:53]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
When we presented our live experience to our colleagues, when we presented our data to our colleague, and when we began to reflect on the value that we were supposed to be aspiring having as a priority, guess what? Decision was easy.
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John Toole
It changed practice for all of your stakeholders, but it did it in a collaborative way.
- [27:14]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
Absolutely.
- [27:15]
John Toole
Let me transition a little bit and I hope the audience really investigates what we've just talked about. Further, you've identified some of the arguments against that process that I suppose rightful claim. I should acknowledge that it means another hearing, but it also perhaps prevents three or four more as a result of the thoughtfulness at the front end in considering the most relevant information and making these determinations. So I will shift a little bit here. Our National Resource center consistently supports best practices that are supported by research. It is clear over the last 20 years we've come to an understanding about adolescent brain science and the opportunities to reshape judgment and thinking among these youth when they introduce themselves to a court involvement. But also the principles of positive youth development or the enhanced family engagement approaches that aren't just feel good approaches, but they actually have a research based impact on the goals of our youth justice system. What role has any of those played in your leadership and the transformation in Fairfax County?
- [28:21]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
I, I think it's foundational, right? It's the cornerstone. It's the base of everything that we're doing. I'm asking people to see the person in front of us for who they are. And they are a youth, they're a young person, they're a child. Right? And this goes to the whole area of adolescent brain development and I don't think I need to go through the Supreme Court literature which incorporated adolescent brain development science into a series of cases to say to you, young people are impulsive. They're less likely to resist peer influence. They have an underdeveloped sense of self. I think that Block says, when you've got a child in front of you, could you please see a child? You know, to those new recruits that I was talking to this morning, I, I said, when you engage with a young person on the street, first of all, I am not asking you to violate your sop. I am not asking you to put yourself at peril or anybody else apparel. But when you engage that youth on the street, could we make sure that we're seeing a young person, that their brain's not fully developed and half the room of new recruits today are under the age of 25 and their brains are not fully developed. We have states talking about. And I'm not, I want to make sure I'm not make, I'm not making a statement, yes or no. I'm just telling you states are talking about whether or not we need to look at courts being divided up age 25 and over, 18 to 25 and then under 18. Adolescent brain development is all about making sure that we're oriented to the individual that's in front of us. And that is not an excuse. That's not a get out of jail free card. Right. I'm just asking my staff to make sure that we see who it is that we really have in front of us.
- [30:26]
John Toole
And judge, if I can reinforce that point that you make, and I really appreciate this, that last piece of your response, this is not about soft, it's not about absolving accountability. It's about, as we consider the methods for accountability and our goal, our role of protecting community interests and changing that pattern of behavior, we recognize the best possible methods for changing that behavior. And it does require an understanding of that adolescent development. It does require an understanding that at this point, for most 10 to 17 year olds, it is the point where there is, according to Dr. Steinberg, he would say the greatest amount of plasticity in the prefrontal cortex that makes them malleable to changes in the way in which they exercise their judgment. I think, as you do, it's fundamental to our practice. It's a pillar, a foundation of the way in which we approach our goal of protecting community safety, of holding those youth accountable and changing that pattern of behavior. We need more leadership like you, who have supported that and made that, that a fundamental concept in practice in Fairfax County.
- [31:33]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
So, John, the other thing I want to say, I, I don't know that I really like the word and I've been talking about this, the word transformation. I, I actually have begun to use the word evolution. And the reason that I'm using the word evolution is, is that I think the people have been engaged in the system over the years and that includes me. I think we have been well meaning. I think we have been well intentioned. I think that we have done things that we thought we should do from a proper motivation. But I also think that we've learned that things that were well meaning, well intentioned. Right. Motivated don't necessarily have the best results. This is about learning as we've gone along. Let me give you an example. So engagement, right? I think our engagement back in the day, well intentioned, was to people give us, that is give the court your troubled youth, let us take over, take a breath, sit back, we'll take care of it. Right. I think we've come to learn that that like excises a really important influence and a real important part of the child's life. And that's the family who you're asking to carry out what it is that we're going to put into place. And so, so if you really want to be productive in making sure that what you put into place is carried through with, you've got to engage the family. Does that make sense?
- [32:59]
John Toole
Well, of course it makes sense. And again, another example in Fairfax county that you've provided leadership for, and one of our shared favorite colleagues who has just recently retired was a leader in the court service unit in Fairfax county to Develop that commitment to active family engagement and family involvement not by concept, not by theory, but by practice among all stakeholders in the Fairfax County Juvenile Domestic Relations District Court. So does it, does that make sense? To me it absolutely makes sense and the research supports that unequivocally that it has an impact on the engagement and involvement and completion of treatment and service and program interventions by the family and the youth and actually has a direct impact on the desistance of future offending by the youth. Youth. So of course, Judge, it makes sense. And again, it's been a fundamental concept that you've led into routine practice in Fairfax County. Judge, we are running out of time in our and our opportunity with these folks this morning. But I've got a couple more that I need to hear from you on and I think the audience would love to hear the challenges that you faced, summarize where you've confronted those challenges. I think we can recognize that you've overcome those challenges. But what were they that were in your pathway to lead this change after effort?
- [34:16]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
So first you should certainly expect challenges. I think the biggest challenge that you should expect is resistance from all fronts. And I mean at home and abroad. Right? This is how we've always done it. I see no need to learn something new or to change. Can you believe that they're adding one more responsibility to my plate? You're going to infringe on my clients constitutional rights. You are being weak on crime. How dare you suggest that we don't know what it is that we're doing. Don't tell me how to do my job. I don't believe in data. Data can be manipulated to say anything. And finally and unfortunately I know that you really want to hit me right now. Do you want to go outside and settle this? So you should expect resistance from all fronts. And I think that you going in need to assess the starting point for each stakeholder and you have to be willing to work from that point forward. In assessing the starting point, you need to be assessing the worst fear perception of the stakeholder that you're engaging with. And you need to address the elephant in the room. And you need to continually press that they're a key player within the system, that they have an identified and valued role in the system. You need to get them to buy in on the purpose of the system and what their role is in the purpose of the system. Again, and this is something I said earlier, you can talk a good game, but you got to play a good game. And so I think for judges you have to change the language. Language and. And you have to change the process in the courtroom. So just some examples for my system. At the detention hearing, are we actually referencing the detention alternative instrument, Right. An evidence based tool? Are we talking about it or are we ignoring it? Prior to disposition, if you have authority to order an investigation and report, a pre sentence report, are we doing that? Are you talking about the investigation and report at the dispositional hearing and are you making others talk about its contents, the strengths of the child, the weaknesses of the child? What's the child's risk to reoffend? Are we identifying the criminogenic need area? Are we targeting service to that criminogenic need area? If we have a standardized dispositional matrix, are we using it, consulting it? Are we having a discussion about the appropriate, least restrictive intrusion in disposing of the case? Are we talking about what should be the level of probation supervision? Or is it just what it's always been, 12 months? Are we practicing and modeling engagement? And in so doing, I think what the core stakeholders, the question they need to answer is do they want to be a relevant contributor to the conversation or not? Not, because I don't ask anyone to sacrifice the role that they have to play in the system. In fact, I want them to play that role to its best because then the, the system can exercise at its best. But ultimately that's a choice that the stakeholder had to make. I think also as a judge, at the end of the day, you are you willing to challenge people's assumptions? Are you willing to challenge your own assumptions?
- [37:48]
John Toole
What a wonderful, thoughtful and informed answer. I say informed last because as you started that list of the challenges you'll confront and in the specific questions that are thrown out, that's clearly a lived experience for you. Our recent publication, the Keys to Youth Justice Improvement Innovation Brief, as we developed all of those that we heard from Fairfax county and the other five jurisdictions that we had partnered with in that Dennis and Mondoro project, we just had to stop at some point. But we had a list in that publication that exceeds 20 such statements that reflect the kind of resistance you're going to confront. I would say you confronted them all, Judge. Again, having some personal knowledge of what it is that Fairfax county has faced in this evolution of their youth justice system. I think you faced them all and you spoke to the collaborative nature of your leadership, driving, managing to clear goals and outcomes with what one of my colleagues used to call probably still does, with controlled impatience for the slower we move, the less we're able to impact the young person in a positive way today with needed changes. And yet we have to have some level of patience in this journey. Certainly our implementation science specialists that help us in change management reflect that some of this evolution takes years to fully achieve. And I just want again to say I applaud the fact that you've had that patience, you've had that diligence, you've earned the respect and in so many other areas that we don't have time to speak to directly about the practices that have been implemented, about the partnerships that have been developed in Fairfax county, and about the changes in policy and procedure that have a direct impact on youth. You have led the way, and I applaud that. Is there one last message that you would like to leave the audience with in our conversation today? Judge?
- [39:47]
Judge Thomas P. Sotelo
I really appreciate the invitation and I appreciate the discussion. Just as we're getting ready to close, I'm. I'm continually being reflective of the conversation, and. And so this is my last thought for value to those who might hear it. And it's really what I'm all about, right? I have young people who come in front of me every day. I have families that come in front of me every day. I have people that come in front of me every day. But most notably, every time I interact with a child, I am presented with a moment in time. I'm presented with an opportunity. And the question I'm continually asking myself is, what do I want to do with this moment in time? What do I want to do with this opportunity? Am I going to let the moment in time opportunity go by the wayside or in the role that I play, which is a servant within my system to all who access my system, will I seize every moment? Will I seize every opportunity? And so I just ask people to reflect on that question. I hope they'll conclude that we need to seize the moment and we need to seize every opportunity.
- [41:04]
John Toole
Thank you, Judge. I appreciate those thoughts as well as all the others you've shared today. I have certainly, obvious to the audience, heaped praise on your leadership and the results of your leadership. I think you would certainly reflect that, and they are evidenced in your comments that this was a collaborative journey in the evolution. The notion that you did that alone was never part of what you suggest, and that's to your credit. But I think it's worthy of identifying that for others who are listening to this podcast, the public Defender's office, the Commonwealth Attorney's office, the prosecutors, certainly the court service unit, and many of your community services and education partners in this evolutionary journey are to be congratulated as well. Under your leadership, I believe they truly formed a collaborative and can enable themselves as well as you to answer, what did I do in that moment with I made a difference. Our business is not about something that produces dollars. Our business is about, at that moment of impact, changing that young person's life so that they can enjoy a journey and an outcome for their life that they envisioned, that they dreamed of, and that we would want as if they were our own child. You have been instrumental in developing the result of that transformation or evolution in Fairfax county to have maximum positive impact on each youth you serve, as well as all of your judicial collaborators in Fairfax county as well. It's been a privilege to have this time with you. I encourage our listeners to really examine more closely what kind of change has truly been achieved in Fairfax county over the years. I do think it's a blueprint. It's certainly a roadmap for many among us in the youth justice field to follow so that they can feel just as fulfilled as the Fairfax County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court should feel based on your leadership and all of their efforts. Thank you, Judge Sotelo.
- [42:59]
Jody Martin
Thank you for listening. We're excited to announce that on February 6th we released our Innovation Brief titled Keys to Youth Justice Demonstration of Practical, Sustainable, Measurable and Replicable Solutions, where you can learn more about the transformation efforts that are taking place in Fairfax county and all of the Dennis and Mondoro Project sites. The brief is available now on our website, rfknrcjj.org and as always, we would love to know what you think about the podcast. To share your ideas and input, please email us at rfknrcjjfkcommunity.org and to stay connected, follow us on Twitter FKYouthjustice and on our LinkedIn page at RFK National Resource center for Juvenile Justice.