ZOE Science & Nutrition

Episode Title: What to eat (and avoid) in a world full of plastic | Dr. Sabine Donnai
Host: Jonathan Wolf (with Dr. Federica Amarti as co-host)
Guest: Dr. Sabine Donnai, Senior Doctor and Proactive Health Management Expert
Date: November 20, 2025

Overview

This episode dives into one of the most pressing health and environmental issues of our time: plastics, and especially microplastics. The hosts and expert guest unpack the reality that modern life saturates us with plastics—not just in the external environment but within our bodies. Dr. Sabine Donnai shares her clinical expertise on how microplastics enter our systems, what they do once inside, their links to chronic diseases, and gives actionable advice for minimizing exposure and supporting the body’s elimination processes.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Scope of the Plastic Problem

• Massive growth in plastic production: From 15 million tonnes in the 1960s to 311 million in 2014; expected to triple by 2050. ([00:21-00:45])
• Persistence: "Plastic never goes away. Our bodies can’t break it down. Even bacteria can’t decompose it." – Host ([00:45])
• Ubiquitous exposure: Air, water, soil, food, household dust, cosmetics, clothing, and packaging all contribute to our contact with plastics. ([06:00-09:54])

2. Understanding Microplastics: What Are They?

• Microplastics are defined as plastic particles smaller than 5 millimeters, down to nanometers in size.
• Two types:
  • Primary microplastics: Manufactured small (e.g., microbeads in cosmetics).
  • Secondary microplastics: Result from the breakdown of larger plastic items due to friction, heat, chemical processes. ([04:31-06:00])
• Not water-soluble, difficult to see, and present everywhere including air and household environments.

“What we can't see is the degradation of that plastic, because plastic is not inert. It takes a very long time, but there's small little pieces that actually get abraded off that plastic all the time.”
— Dr. Sabine Donnai [05:05]

3. How Microplastics Enter Our Bodies and the Environment

• Inhalation: A substantial amount comes from tire friction (20-35% of airborne microplastics), urban dust, household cleaning, and vented dryers. ([06:57-07:55])
• Ingestion: Present in water (bottled, tap, and mineral), foods (fish, especially those eaten whole; some vegetables; red meats via feed), and via utensils and packaging.
• Skin contact: Noted with frequent handling of chemically treated receipts (thermal paper). ([33:36-35:04])
• Medical uses: Drips and infusions via plastic tubing.

4. Microplastics in Water, Food & Air

• Water: Bottled and tap water both contain massive quantities. Hundreds of thousands of microplastic particles per liter are common—even glass bottles aren’t immune due to source contamination. ([19:42])
• Food: Microplastics in fish (especially shellfish, sardines), red meat (from feed), vegetables (through soil); plastic leaches from packaging especially when heated. ([37:31-39:07])
• Air: Urban dwellers have markedly higher levels; cycling in cities increases exposure.

"The water that you get from mineral water even has got plastics in it. And they're not even talking about water that you get from the tap, which... The volume of plastic is the highest of all three."
– Dr. Sabine Donnai [19:57-20:10]

• Household: Dryer vents, vacuuming, synthetic clothing, and dusters release plastic particles into home environments.

5. Persistence and Breakdown

• Extremely long half-lives: Most plastics have a half-life of 50+ years, breaking into ever-smaller pieces, not “disappearing.” ([11:44-12:16])
• Chemical cocktail: Plastics are rarely pure; they contain additives (BPA, BPS, phthalates, flame retardants) that pose separate health risks, escalate with recycling processes, and are poorly regulated. ([12:28-14:24], [16:10-17:05])

6. Health Impacts: What the Science Shows

• Omnipresence in the body: “We have never seen anybody with no plastics in their blood.” – Dr. Sabine Donnai [28:14]
• Accumulation: Microplastics (especially the smallest particles) bioaccumulate in organs – notably in the brain, liver, kidneys.
• Brain impacts: Recent studies show the brain has 60% higher microplastic concentration than liver or kidneys; amount in brains doubled between 2016 and 2024. Higher levels in dementia patients. ([22:18-24:38])

“The brain had about 60% higher concentration of microplastics than the liver and the kidney... people that had dementia had the highest concentration of plastics in their brain.”
– Dr. Sabine Donnai [23:57-23:58]

• Mechanisms: Micro- and nanoplastics are so small they can cross the “impenetrable” blood-brain barrier, either via compromised barriers or directly through the olfactory (nasal) route. ([24:58-26:48])
• Cardiovascular disease: Triggers inflammation in the blood vessels, accelerates plaque formation, and makes existing plaques unstable — raising heart attack and stroke risk. ([30:23-32:12])
• Hormonal disruption: Chemicals like BPA and phthalates act as hormone disruptors, blocking hormone receptors and impacting fertility, testosterone levels, and cancer risk. ([33:32-37:16])
• Receipts as a hidden risk: BPA in thermal receipts rapidly transfers to skin; even more so with hand sanitizer or creams, increasing hormone disruption especially for retail workers. ([34:11-35:40])

7. Can We Remove Plastics from Our Bodies?

• The body can eliminate some plastics (mainly via the gut), but inhaled nano- and microplastics are much harder to remove.
• Gut “integrity” is crucial: a healthy gut barrier and good transit (avoiding constipation) help eliminate.
• Polyphenol-rich, fiber-rich diets, and certain foods (fenugreek, okra, mushrooms, greens, berries) can help bind microplastics for elimination. ([45:04-47:20])
• Sleep and exercise support the “glymphatic” system, the brain’s waste removal route.
• Supporting overall detoxification through a healthy gut and liver is beneficial; animal evidence supports this. ([47:33-48:42], [46:53])

“If you're eating the sort of healthy Zoe diet that we talk a lot about, then actually you could be eliminating a lot of this plastic from your gut already. Because these soluble fibers... can help to take this.”
– Host ([53:36])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On inevitability:
  "Have I ever measured anybody over the years...that had not had any toxins in them? No, I have not. Okay, we all have it."
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [22:18]

• On water contamination:
  "Hundreds of thousands of pieces within a liter of water."
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [19:42]

• Invisible exposure:
  "Because it's not, because you can't see it, that eventually it's not there.”
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [12:28]

• Plastic and the brain:
  “The moment it's in your blood, it has bypassed your gut already, and therefore... you can assume it's gonna be in your organs."
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [28:14]

• Receipts and BPA exposure:
  “There's a layer of BPA...on your paper and it gets activated by heat. Then you're going to touch that and...put it in your mouth. It is a big source actually of BPA exposure..."
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [34:11]

• On practical hope:
  “...The moment you have an awareness, you can take an action and I think that can only be positive. Reinforcing a diet that is balanced, that is healthy for you and that is going to help actually clear out the environment that has become quite toxic. It's a win win.”
  – Dr. Sabine Donnai [54:12]

Solutions and Actionable Advice

(Timestamps reference the start of advice-focused segment)

1. Filter Your Water — [41:11]

• Use a reverse osmosis filter (on-counter options are affordable). This removes both microplastics and harmful chemicals.
• Remember to remineralize water after filtering (some filters remove beneficial minerals).
• Use filtered water for both drinking and cooking.

2. Avoid Heating Food in Plastics — [42:39]

• Don’t microwave food in plastic containers or use plastic wrap on hot items.
• Use glass, ceramic, or stainless steel for food prep, storage, and reheating.
• Replace plastic utensils with wooden, metal, or ceramic alternatives.

3. Limit Use of Plastic Bottles and Packaging — [42:39-44:10]

• Opt for reusable metal bottles and containers.
• Choose plant-based wraps or simply use a plate to cover food.

4. Household Practices — [43:49]

• Choose natural fabrics where possible; synthetic sportswear is an acceptable compromise for performance.
• Avoid venting dryers indoors; clean dryer filters; look for washing machine filters that trap microfibers.
• Use HEPA air/vacuum filters to reduce airborne microplastics at home.

5. Receipts and Skin Contact — [34:11-35:29]

• Minimize handling of thermal receipts.
• Retail workers especially should wear gloves; avoid using hand sanitizer/creams before contact.

6. Boost Your Body’s Defenses — [45:04-47:20]

• Eat a high-fiber, plant-rich diet (whole grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, fruits, and vegetables).
• Include specific foods: berries, mushrooms, leafy greens; soluble fibers help transit and encapsulation.
• Try herbs and fragrant spices; fenugreek and okra have shown plastic-binding effects in studies.
• Support sleep and physical activity to enhance brain detoxification (glymphatic system).

7. Perspective and Mental Balance — [40:21-44:10]

• Don’t become obsessed or “paranoid."
• Small lifestyle swaps (water, cookware, packaging) yield big benefits.
• Focus on risk reduction, not impossible elimination.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and scope of plastics abuse: [00:00-02:59]
• What are microplastics and where are they found? [04:31-09:54]
• Sources and pathways for microplastics: [06:00-11:54]
• Chemical additives (BPA, BPS, phthalates): [12:28-16:10]
• Entry into human body and health impacts: [22:09-26:48]
• Direct brain impacts & new research: [23:57-24:38]
• Cardiovascular and hormone disruption: [30:23-37:16]
• Plastics in food: [37:31-39:07]
• What you can do (solutions segment): [40:21-54:12]

Final Takeaways

• Plastics are inescapable but manageable: Total avoidance isn’t realistic, but significant reductions in exposure are possible with practical steps at home and in dietary choices.
• Water and heat are the top risk factors: Filtering water and avoiding heating in/with plastics are high-impact changes.
• Diet is both defense & offense: A diverse, high-fiber, plant-forward diet supports the body’s removal of plastics and offsets inflammatory effects.
• Awareness is empowerment: Knowledge of exposure sources and simple lifestyle adjustments can meaningfully reduce risk.
• Don’t panic, just act: Small, sustainable shifts matter and can collectively make a difference for health.

Resources & Further Reading

• For filtering products: Look up “reverse osmosis water filters”
• For plant-based wraps: Search for “sugarcane cling film” or “compostable food wraps”
• On plastics and health: "Identification of Microplastics in Human Tissues" — University of New Mexico study ([24:18-24:38])

“No, I think there's only light because the moment you have an awareness, you can take an action and I think that can only be positive.”
– Dr. Sabine Donnai [54:12]

Listen to this episode for a compelling look at a hidden yet pressing health issue — and leave with a sense of agency and practical steps for a healthier, lower-plastic future.