Dan Harris (3:02)

for the next one.

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Dan Harris (3:45)

Let me ask you what may be an obvious question. What is the value of calmly knowing change?

Bart Van Melick (3:54)

If we can attune to the flow of things, even just for a moment, we start to realize that clinging or holding on to things make no sense. I think that's why it's so suiting for some people to look at water flowing or really enjoying the flow of music. Because it really brings us into the present moment. And this practice invites you to not just be aware of what's going on, but how is it changing? And I actually got it from this modern day scholar and monk, the Venerable Analio. And full disclosure here. The reason I got it was in our teacher training. We had to read his whole dissertation, his PhD on the Buddhist teachings on mindfulness. But I remember from university in The Netherlands that PhDs always have a conclusion. So I went there and then he said, it goes something like this. I'm paraphrasing. If I had to sum up all of the Buddhist teachings on mindfulness in four words, I would go keep calmly knowing change. Keep is. Has that sense of the continuity. And keep remembering. To be mindful calmly is that kind receptive attitude. The knowing is being aware. And change is just that truth of life, that flow that's constantly happening, even right now. And then it said that the Buddha taught, I think 84,000 lessons. And then on his deathbed, he asked some of the people who were helping him out, like is everything clear? They said, yes, Venerable Sir. And then he passed away. By saying all things in the material and mental world come and go. Keep practicing wholeheartedly. So even there he was pointing to knowing change because it brings peace.

Dan Harris (6:03)

It brings peace even though it is terrifying on some level, it is Especially

Bart Van Melick (6:10)

when sometimes impermanence is really hard or the fact that we feel like we're not having control. A couple of years ago was the first time I actually mourned one of my best friend died. And that powerful change, it really takes a while to be with it. But this practice is really pointing to change happening moment to moment. And attuning to that is really freeing.

Dan Harris (6:40)

I'm reaching for my phone, which I am not doing to check Instagram, I'm doing because this is where I have all the questions that were pre submitted from the audience. But let's see if we can hit a few questions.

Bart Van Melick (6:51)

Sure.

Dan Harris (6:51)

This one's from gw. Really enjoying listening to Bart's discussion from his most recent podcast. And this is back to the 2021 episode that you and I recorded together, Bart on relational Dharma. Yeah, GW says I have a 10 month old who's been a great motivator to increase my meditation and mindfulness practice. Does Bart have any tips about introducing meditation to children when they're a bit older, gently. Or any resources to point me in the right direction?

Bart Van Melick (7:18)

JW Right. It's so cool that you have a 10 month old. I have an 11 year old and I already read that question. You know what I did last night? I asked Lou, my 11 year old, how would you answer this question? You know what Lou said? Jw he said every person is different. Not everyone is into meditation. Not every child is into meditation too. I would start by saying that. So I want to just pass on Lou's wisdom here. JW but you know, one thing I did when Lou was small was to use his belly as my object of meditation. And you know what's really cool about Buddhist teachings and that was in that dissertation by Analio was you're not just invited to practice to be mindful internally about your mind states. Kind of what we did in the guided meditation today, it's also about being mindful externally, even with the breath. The Buddha said that. So what I did when he was about that age, after he would be in bed and he usually started on his belly, especially in the summer. Not a lot of blankies. Or he was wearing that thing here, I can't recall what that's called in English. And then I would just start noticing his belly rise and fall. So I became aware of the breath externally. That became my anchor. And there that too, you could see it coming and going. And as a matter of fact, what I really appreciate about the Buddhist teaching is that it not only points to being aware of your Internal surroundings or what's going on externally. It's also about being aware of the relational field that you're co creating. Dan and I, and we're all creating, all 317 of us live right now. And even with the breath, the Buddha said that. And I remember thinking, how am I going to practice that? So on the number three line in New York, I would be squeezed in. I could feel my body breathe, but all of a sudden I felt body squeeze next to me, breathing as well. That's mindfulness of the breath, both internal and external. And the reason I'm saying it is because I think the most important thing in terms of being with kids and taking this practice, bringing life into your practice, it's really about being aware externally and both how you are impacting and together impacting one another. That's way more important than teaching your kids some techniques because as Lou said, not all kids are receptive. And a lot of kids that I taught have a conception of meditation being cross legged. And they would all go. And so just to teach them that there's other ways that you can be mindful is really helpful. So what Lou and I are doing, his New Year's resolution was running more outside. And then we'll do that mindfully because we both enjoy it. So when your kid grows older, I would suggest to do activities that you both really enjoy and then talk about what it's like to be really in the moment and then ask questions like, how do you feel afterwards? So that's how I've been playing the gentle bringing meditation into Lou's life. Because the last thing that I would want to do is to give him a sense of, oh, meditation is difficult or it's boring or I have to sit still because I don't think that's what meditation is about.

Dan Harris (11:02)

That was a great answer. Here's a question from Jamie. I've noticed that one way I tend to connect with others is through venting or complaining. Lately though, I've become more aware of it and how it might portray me as more negative. Even though I feel like I'm generally pretty happy human, the things I complain about don't usually upset me deeply or even remotely. I think I'm more interested in generating a good conversation, relating to others, and lightening the mood with some dry humor. That makes me wonder whether this is just how I connect a personality trait or if it's insecurity showing up in disguise. Is it harmless or something worth looking at more closely.

Bart Van Melick (11:40)

Oh, that's a full question I would Definitely look closely into it. The answer about harmless is where you're coming from. And I think humor, especially in these times, is so helpful. I've been consuming so much stand up comedy, you have no idea. I love your episode. I was there, by the way, live when you interviewed Pete Homes. Oh, I think we need humor, especially in these challenging times. So I would see where you're coming from. I think that's what's really important with this. But also just to know, like how you see this. Is it something you often do? Has it become like a pattern? Maybe you could also just pause when you catch it and go like, why am I doing this? And just see what happens. Could be a pause for a reflection. Jamie. Right. I think we can use more humor right now and lightness. But I would again, also be mindful externally and just notice how what you're saying is landing for the other person. And you can read that quite easily, I think. So that could be something to play with next time when you do this, Jamie, just really become aware of the nonverbal cues you're getting from the person you're doing this particular pattern with and just see. But also maybe play sometimes with not doing it. You feel the urge and you go, no, no, let's not do this. Maybe actually wait for the other person to say something. So, yeah, I would definitely look into that. That would be my suggestion.

Dan Harris (13:10)

I agree with your suggestion. And just the one thing I'll add is our mutual teacher Joseph Goldstein likes to talk about this ancient Buddhist or poly. Poly is the language in which the Buddhist teachings were written down. And in Pali there's a word, some papalapa, which it means exactly what it sounds like, which is useless speech. Joseph's argument is that if you check out the next time you have the urge to say something that, you know, doesn't really matter, often the urge is look at me. So I'm not like totally against some bapa lapa. And sometimes it is a good way to foster connection, especially if it's harmless gossip or a dry joke or just like I keep up a non stop patter of nonsense with my wife and son all day long. I could probably turn down the volume on that, but I do think it has some utility.

Producer/Host Announcer (14:03)

But checking it out.

Dan Harris (14:05)

Yeah, can yield some interesting data.

Bart Van Melick (14:08)

Yeah, I agree.

Dan Harris (14:09)

I do, as said stated earlier, need to close a little bit early today. However, I do want to close, or actually you, Barbie, want to close with a dedication and I want to leave space for that.

Bart Van Melick (14:20)

Okay, so we have like a couple

Dan Harris (14:22)

of minutes yeah, please.

Bart Van Melick (14:24)

All right. So the first thing I want to invite you into is to just come home to the body again. And also especially when you're interacting with people like JW with her 10 year old or Jamie with the Sam Papa Lapa going on sometimes, which we all do, I'm part of that team as well. It's really helpful to stay connected to the body and so from time to time just to come home to, oh yeah, I have this embodied experience that I can feel. And then maybe taking a moment to appreciate the fact that you are here in community. The reason I'm on this path still is because of community. I would have definitely stopped meditating. Maybe appreciating the fact that you have shown up right now. It's a really helpful practice to recollect the good that you do. May your time together be a cause and condition for inner and for outer peace. And just see what it's like to be mindful just for a few more moments and check if it's more oriented internally or maybe it's externally or both. Knowing you can always come home to this body, coming home to awareness because awareness will protect you. And finally, I love to close by saying three times, May there be peace. May there be peace. May there be peace. It was a pleasure being here. Take good care.

Producer/Host Announcer (16:46)

Thanks again to Bart. Thanks to you for hanging out with us. Don't forget to check out my new app. It's called 10% with Dan Harris. You can get it@danharris.com or wherever you get your apps. There's a free 14 day trial. I really love this app. I would love to have you as part of it. If you can't afford it, don't worry about it. You can just send us a note

Dan Harris (17:05)

and we will hook you up.

Producer/Host Announcer (17:07)

Last thing to say here. Thank you so much to everybody who works so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.