10% Happier with Dan Harris

Chronic Stress Ages You. Here’s How To De-Stress for Longevity | Elissa Epel

Date: September 1, 2025
Guest: Elissa Epel, PhD

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan Harris sits down with Elissa Epel, PhD—professor at UCSF, expert in stress and aging, and co-author of The Telomere Effect and The Stress Prescription. Their conversation explores the role of chronic stress in aging at the cellular level, emphasizing practical strategies for reversing stress-induced aging. Across key segments, they demystify the science of telomeres, explain why daily habits matter more than we think, and offer actionable micro-changes, reframing, and stress management tools for long-term health and happiness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Telomeres and Why Do They Matter?

[08:28–17:00]

• Telomeres: Protective caps at the ends of chromosomes, critical for healthy cell division and longevity.
  • “In every single cell in our body, our chromosomes have protective caps at the tips. And these are called telomeres... they are sensitive sensors to stress, any type of stress.” — Elissa Epel [08:40]
• Telomerase: Enzyme that helps maintain telomere length.
• Telomeres shorten with age and especially with chronic stress, leading to “replicative senescence”—when cells can’t divide, tissues can’t renew, and the aging process accelerates.

2. Inflammation and Cellular Aging

[15:09–17:00]

• Inflammation is vital for healing but damaging when chronic.
• Chronic stress leads to increased inflammatory signals (“inflammaging”), providing an environment ideal for diseases like cancer.
  • “High levels of inflammation are creating all sorts of signals for cells to age... cancerous cells love inflammation.” — Elissa Epel [15:19]

3. How Much Control Do We Have Over Our Aging?

[16:43–21:13]

• Genetics are important, but daily decisions (diet, mindset, stress) affect your healthspan/lifespan more than you’d expect.
  • “Our aging is much more under control than we think. It comes down to the biology we create each day in our cells, with our lifestyle, with our mindsets, with our stress levels.” — Elissa Epel [16:43]

4. The Power of Small, Sustainable Lifestyle Changes

[19:00–21:43]

• Even minor changes (e.g., eating fruit vs. chips) add up over decades, measurably improving cellular health.
• Extreme routines aren’t necessary; micro-changes sustained over time are most beneficial.

5. Stress, Meditation, and Resetting the Nervous System

[21:43–33:22]

• Regular short breaks/meditation are critical for cell repair.
• Meditation Retreats: Intensive experience (even for a few days) can reset and recalibrate the nervous system for lasting benefit, but even five minutes a day shows measurable effects.
  • “Five minutes in the morning is a critical amount. It's incredible. If you can only do three, do it... even five minutes a day for eight weeks led to really meaningful changes in emotional, well-being, stress, lower depression…” — Elissa Epel [24:07]
• Accessibility: Retreats are not feasible for everyone, but small, regular practices are powerful, especially for those with a history of early adversity.

6. Retreat “Biology” & Different Types of Rest

[31:31–36:51]

• Retreats, even short ones, cause dramatic shifts in gene expression related to cellular restoration and stress response.
• True benefit comes not from passive rest but from mind training and skillful relaxation.
• People with trauma histories benefit disproportionately from such practices.

7. Daily Meditation: What’s the Minimum Effective Dose?

[41:09–44:28]

• While more is generally better (dose response), even five minutes a day meaningfully reduces stress, depression, and burnout.
  • “Doing five minutes versus not doing it at all is a world of difference.” — Elissa Epel [42:43]
• Beginners may benefit from starting with breathing techniques before formal meditation.

8. Breathing Practices & the Vagus Nerve

[44:28–50:28]

• Practices like “straw breathing” (deep inhale, slow exhale through pursed lips) directly increase vagal tone and shift the nervous system into restorative states.
  • “… bring our breathing rate to roughly six breaths per minute or less, we are increasing vagal tone … a direct path to changing nervous system activity within minutes.” — Elissa Epel [44:38]
• All types (mindfulness, slow breathing, etc.) are effective; find what works and stick to it.

9. Four “Colors” of Mind State & Deep Rest

[51:25–56:29]

• Red Mind: Overwhelm/freeze.
• Yellow Mind: Chronic, low-grade stress/vigilance — where most people spend their day.
• Green Mind: Pleasant, leisure engagement (nature, socializing).
• Blue Mind: Deep rest — achieved through practices like meditation, Yoga Nidra, deep relaxation.
  • “When do we do this? … in a flow state, typically in a mind body practice. Meditation is of course a prototypical example.” — Elissa Epel [55:17]

10. Sleep, Monitoring, and the Perils of Overtracking

[57:34–60:53]

• Deep (slow wave) sleep is crucial for cellular restoration.
• Obsessing over sleep trackers can backfire (“orthosomnia”), but temporary monitoring can reveal important insights, e.g., about the impact of stress and eating habits on glucose/insulin spikes.

11. Stress Eating and Mindful Eating

[60:53–62:59]

• Stress increases cravings for carbs/sweets; giving in especially during stress creates higher, more dangerous glucose spikes.
• Mindfully pausing to reflect (“How do I want to feel right now?”) creates space for healthier choices.
  • “If I've just had a shitty phone call or an email and I'm heading to the kitchen to self-medicate, that's a great question to ask because... In the times where you really don't want to feel worse, it's great to bring that question to mind.” — Dan Harris [61:59]

12. Reframing Stress: Be the Lion, Not the Gazelle

[66:35–69:55]

• Acute stress response can be positive (challenge vs. threat).
• “Stress shields”: Thoughts, resources, and mindset can shift a threatening stress into a motivating challenge.
  • “We can nudge that on by saying, bring it on. I feel my heart racing, but this is actually my body being excited, my body preparing me to do well. I need this energy.” — Elissa Epel [68:55]

13. Radical Acceptance: Controlling What You Can, Releasing the Rest

[69:55–74:41]

• Use simple inventories or visualizations (e.g., “drop the rope,” “put down the backpack of bricks”) to foster acceptance around problems you cannot change.
  • “By doing that, we do soften the worry, the rumination. Those are just efforts to control because we care.” — Elissa Epel [74:41]

14. Start and End Your Day “Full” — The Practice of Joy

[74:59–80:23]

• Bookend the day with gratitude, joy, and purpose, shifting focus from problem-solving to savoring positivity and connecting with others.
  • “Rather than focusing on stress and managing the stressful parts of our life … focus on the joy in life. And that circumvents the stress response, increases our tolerance or our stress resilience.” — Elissa Epel [74:59]
• Evidence from the “Big Joy” project shows even lab-tested micro-practices (acts of kindness, savoring, awe) significantly boost well-being worldwide.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Our cells are listening to our lives. It’s not just about our genetics…it’s the decisions we’re making moment to moment that will dictate our health span and lifespan.” —Dan Harris [16:14]
• “Five minutes a day can have measurable benefits. Break up chronic stress with short practices during the day—these small changes can have big effects.” —Elissa Epel [42:53]
• “You want your vagal tone to be high and that’s kind of the opposite of being in a fight or flight or a high stress state.” —Dan Harris [50:28]
• “We have at least four states of mind that we experience…red, yellow, green and blue…blue mind, in its purest form, is allowing ourselves to release and let go of control.” —Elissa Epel [51:25]
• “The more we can nudge ourselves to have a positive or challenged stress response, the better.” —Elissa Epel [68:33]
• “Rather than focusing on stress…shift your attention and focus on the joy in life. That circumvents the stress response, it increases our tolerance or our stress resilience.” —Elissa Epel [74:59]

Quick Reference: Timestamps for Key Segments

• What is a Telomere? — [08:28]
• Inflammation & Cancer — [15:19]
• We Can Control Our Rate of Aging — [16:43]
• Small, Maintainable Lifestyle Changes — [19:00]
• The Power of Meditation/Retraining Your Mind — [21:43, 24:07, 41:09]
• Retreat Biology and Early Adversity — [31:31, 36:51]
• Breathwork & Vagal Tone — [44:28]
• Colors of Mind / Deep Rest — [51:25]
• Sleep Monitoring: Pros and Cons — [57:34]
• Stress Eating & Mindful Eating — [60:53]
• Challenge vs. Threat Stress Response (“Be the Lion”) — [66:35]
• Radical Acceptance: Letting Go — [69:55]
• Practice of Joy: Start & End Your Day Full — [74:59]

Actionable Takeaways

• Start Small: Five minutes a day of any restorative practice (meditation, deep breathing, nature time) truly matters.
• Experiment: Try different forms of rest or mindful practice—see what works for you.
• Mindful Eating: Pause and ask, “How do I want to feel right now?” before self-medicating with food.
• Reframe Stress: Remind yourself—“My body is getting ready to act”—to channel stress as energy.
• Let Go: Use visualization to “drop the rope” on unsolvable problems, practicing radical acceptance.
• Bookend with Joy: Savor something positive, connect with others, or recall something you’re grateful for first thing in the morning and at night.

Resources Mentioned

• Books by Elissa Epel:
  • The Telomere Effect
  • The Stress Prescription
• Big Joy Project (global joy practices study)
• Polyvagal Theory (see podcast’s previous episodes for deep dives)
• Insight Meditation Society & Spirit Rock (for meditation retreats, with scholarships available)
• Guided Meditations with Vinnie Ferraro (available for paid subscribers at danharris.com)

For those seeking smarter, science-backed happiness and resilience, this episode distills the practical science of aging, stress, and joy into everyday, doable acts—reminding you that you have more power over your well-being (and your cells!) than you think.