← 10% Happier with Dan Harris
10% Happier with Dan Harris
How To Create Micro-Moments of Sanity No Matter What's Happening Today | Jay Michaelson
00:28:58
Loading summary
Transcript41 lines
- [00:00]
Jay Michelson
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Dan Harris
This is the 10% Happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hello gang. How we doing? It is tempting at times to feel a bit selfish or self indulgent for doing any kind of self care, including meditation, exercise, you name it, at a time when it feels like the world's on fire. So today we're going to talk about this tricky balance with a meditation teacher who is not afraid to mix it up in the political arena, as it were. Jay Michelson is not only a deep Dharma practitioner, but he's also a journalist, a rabbi, a novelist and a former activist. Today he's going to talk about how to use your personal practice as a way to fortify yourself to engage more effectively in the world. Jay is February's Teacher of the Month over on my new app, 10% with Dan Harris. That means Jay will be leading live video meditation and Q and A sessions and producing guided meditations to join our growing library of meditations. You can sign up for the app now@danharris.com There's a free 14 day trial if you want to try before you buy. We'll get started with Jay Michelson in conversation with the executive producer of this show, DJ Kashmir, right after this. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes it can feel like everybody else has it all together in their love lives. Whether married, dating or single. The truth is many of us are still figuring it out and finding our way. And no matter where you are in your romance journey, therapy can help you find your way, help you determine what you want, what feels heavy, and how you can take some of the pressure off yourself. This issue of our romantic lives, or lack thereof, can be particularly fraught in February, which is full of flowers and candy and stuffed animals and lots of talk about relationships and dating. And therapy can be a great way to work out your issues, whatever they are. I have found that individual therapy and couples counseling can be extremely helpful for me personally. BetterHelp has quality therapists who work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals and they give you a short questionnaire to help identify your needs and preferences and then their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. And if you're not happy with your match, you could switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com happier that's betterhelp.com happier. I have to admit, one growing source of tension around the house right now is that there's a little competition brewing among my wife, my son and myself over everybody's favorite socks. Bombas socks. Bombas is a sponsor of this show and they sent me some socks recently. The problem is everybody loves these socks and now we're fighting over them. If you've got comfort on your 2026 resolutions list, I highly recommend Bombas. The all new Bombas sport socks are engineered with sport specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding and all sport. I like to exercise every day. Bombas are perfect for that. However, they're also perfect for just wearing with my Nike low tops and looking good. And they've got more than just socks. They've got luxurious Sherpa Sunday slippers that feel like walking on clouds. They've got the new squishy Saturday suede slip on shoe for comfort on the go. They've got underwear and T shirts. They got a lot going on. And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to somebody facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated. With over 150 million donations and counting, head on over to bombas.com happier and use the code happier for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S dot com happier and then use the code happier at checkout.
- [04:24]
DJ Kashmir
Jay Michelson, welcome back.
- [04:26]
Jay Michelson
Thanks, C.J. it's great to be here.
- [04:28]
DJ Kashmir
Yeah. Thrilled to have you. I've been looking forward to this.
- [04:31]
Dan Harris
Yeah.
- [04:31]
DJ Kashmir
Curious to hear your answer. We've been asking all our teachers of the month this question. How did you become a Dharma teacher.
- [04:39]
Jay Michelson
At the age of three, I was recognized as perfectly enlightened. And from there it's just been all downhill.
- [04:45]
DJ Kashmir
Was this your parents that recognized or were there traveling llamas?
- [04:50]
Jay Michelson
I was magically conceived by the force. Nobody knows where I came from. Totally false. Yeah. No, I was. I still am a neurotic Jewish kid. I'm just not a kid anymore. But I was a neurotic Jewish American kid growing up in the suburbs. My door into meditation and into the dharma is a little unusual. I think most people come in through the door of suffering, right? We're feeling anxious or fear or grief, anger or whatever. And we hear that meditation can help and then maybe we go deeper. You know, in Buddhist psychology, you tend toward one of the three poisons, greed, hatred, or delusion. I'm a greed type. I want every possible experience. And that was true for religious and spiritual experience too. I was like Interested in mysticism as a teenager, which is pretty weird and unusual. And in my college years, I became what's called a nightstand Buddhist, meaning I had Buddhist books on my nightstand. I wasn't practicing, but I was reading about it a lot. Then discovered actually Jewish mysticism in my 20s and studied that. When I went on my first week long silent meditation retreat, it was for, on a conscious level, greed reasons. I wanted to have amazing experiences that I'd read about in books and that I heard were possible using meditation. Looking back, I mean, that was 25 years ago. I think on a subconscious level, why do we want that kind of pleasant mental experience? It's because there's something that feels not enough about this experience, or that's because we're feeling suffering and want some kind of alternative or an escape or something like that. But that was all subconscious. On a conscious level. I had read and even written about these kind of amazing altered states of consciousness that are achievable through meditation and through other ways as well. And I wanted to have them. I wanted to have a mystical experience. And I did have something like that. The mind gets really concentrated on long retreat and you can experience all kinds of joy and equanimity and contentment that you might not even think you're capable of. And then after the ecstasy, the laundry, right? So it's like you can have a peak experience, but if there's not integration, if there's not a way to translate that into your life, if there's not ways to stop tripping yourself up and harming others as much, what good is it? And even on that very first retreat, you have to go through the swamp before you can get to the shore. And so there was a lot of going over again material that as a 29 year old, I wasn't really even aware that I had inside of me. And that got me launched. Then I got pretty serious after that.
- [07:21]
DJ Kashmir
What made you take the turn from just someone who got hooked on the practice or started taking meditation seriously, to then being also someone who's, you know, sharing that with other people, making it a huge part of your livelihood?
- [07:36]
Jay Michelson
I would say two things. First, I was interested in meditation, but then as time went on, I got really curious about the infrastructure or the conceptual structure around it and in the traditions that it came from, which were Buddhist traditions. I was doing mindfulness and other meditation practices, most of which are derived from Buddhist traditions. And in the Buddhist contexts they have specific purposes. And you can even make progress, which is sometimes a bad word in meditation circles. But with Dan, actually, I remember a few years ago writing about what progress could actually look like in meditation and not turning it into something to own and something to compete over. And I am better at it than you are, but, you know, having a view of how things can develop. I got really interested in the structures around meditation, the conceptual structure and so on. And so I kind of went hardcore Buddhist in my 30s, including going on longer retreats and practicing in that way. And then as a teacher, I had what a lot of people have, which is like the zeal of the converted in those first years. I just thought this was great. This was like the answer key. Dan's book hadn't come out yet. I definitely thought I would get 100% happier, you know, now I make a joke about it. That's how I started saying I was enlightened at three. But there was that early period of enthusiasm and, you know, that doesn't pan out, generally speaking. And we have to come to a more mature, sophisticated, nuanced understanding of how the mind can train itself and how we can be kinder and wiser. So even without that initial burst of enthusiasm, it really felt like this is one thing that has made my life measurably better and can help other people. And I still believe a little bit that it's part of one of the things that can help save humanity in the world from total disaster. Not solo, but just having a little bit of spaciousness around our opinions, a little bit less reactivity, so we don't shoot from the hip quite as much. And I've now mentioned Dan three times, but I really was grateful when I met him, which is right before the book came out, before all of the other work, even just for that metaphor of 10% happier, 10% kinder, 10% wiser, just to see. Yeah, that's right. That could be an achievable ambition or intention or even goal. I think just that is really helpful for people.
- [09:51]
DJ Kashmir
That makes a lot of sense to me. I'm curious about. You have an entire other life or multiple lives outside of being a meditation teacher. And I was just wondering if you could say a little bit about the other hats you wear and how those influence how you approach the Dharma and guiding people in meditation.
- [10:09]
Jay Michelson
Sure. I feel like putting a surgeon General's warning on what I'm about to say, which is do not follow my path to dissolution. I don't recommend the way, but what I've noticed in now being a kind of grown up for 25, 30 years, that there are these two sides to me and to my personality that if both aren't being nourished in some way, I get really itchy, I get restless. For me, one of those sides is very worldly. It's on activism of different kinds. I work now as a journalist. I have a substack. I was on CNN for a. When I don't do that work, when I'm only focused on spirituality, whether it's meditation or psychedelics or Jewish spirituality, I just get really. I just. I get itchy. Like, I feel like I also have some blessings and abilities that can be used to help put out some of these fires. And one way, I've come to see it as like a short term, long term piece. Like, I think a lot of that activist work is relatively short term. Like, how can we solve this problem? I worked as an LGBTQ activist for 10 years before turning to journalism. And how do we move the middle? How do we change society? And then when I only work on that side, I just get really hollowed out. I don't have the resilience. It's dealing with negative material, like, all the time. And there's not, like a base to come back to. What's also at least equally important to me, which are ways of being present, ways for me at least, of being present with the sacred, with what I consider to be holy or transpersonal. And I have bifurcated my career Life for over 20 years now with sort of activism or journalism on the one side and meditation, spirituality, and in the last five years, psychedelics work on the other. The title of my substack is both. And it was actually. It's funny, I hadn't thought about this, but I had this conversation with Dan because in each of those worlds, especially the journalism world, there's a concern, like, do you have any credibility if you're also like, the rabbi who meditates? That's pretty weird, right? I was on CNN for a few years. I would often get introduced as Jay Michaelson, legal columnist for Daily Beast, and a rabbi, as if that was like the strangest possible thing. And it is pretty strange, actually, just normatively speaking or statistically speaking. But I think for me, the secret sauce or my own particular personal dharma isn't the overlap of those things. And I do really believe that at the root of many, if not all of our political problems are problems of the human mind. How we are as human beings, how we evolved in ways that were once evolutionarily adaptive but which are now maladaptive. And it doesn't feel to Me, like, there can really be healing and change and transformation on the political level without there also being technologies of self improvement or self knowledge. And meditation's by no means the only one of those, but it is one.
- [13:01]
DJ Kashmir
You preface that answer by saying, don't follow in my footsteps. You know, you're not recommending that anybody become a journalist, activist, rabbi, meditation teacher, psychedelics expert, which is fair enough. But it does strike me that, like, we are all, on some level trying to find some balance between these competing forces of, on the one hand, how do we make an impact on the world around us, our family, our community, our society, Right? And on the other hand, how do we go deep and find happiness and care about what really matters? Like, maybe the way you've balanced those is unusual, but it, it doesn't feel unique to have that need.
- [13:42]
Jay Michelson
Oh, I totally agree. Just don't try to get a paycheck that way. I've settled in. It's been a long time that I've been doing this. And even, you know, when I was in law school, I was taking religion classes on the side and I was actually, I was teaching meditation on the side at that point. I was just like, I've always been this way. And for a while I remember actually talking with my therapist once about, you know, I really should make a choice. I can identify specifically ways in which, if I just focused on one or the other, I could really move forward in a more effective way. And my therapist taught me a phrase I hadn't heard before, which was, let's create a permission structure for. For you to keep living the way you want to live. And that was really helpful. I don't think that's always helpful. But in that particular case, that advice was really helpful. And it was just coming to understand that this is what makes some of my work distinctive. You want to have a lane, certainly as a journalist and as writer, and you want to have something that makes you different from everybody else who's doing that work? I do have that, but it's also true that I divide my 80,000 hours that we have in our lives to spend on work in a couple of different places. So that's the advice part, but no, absolutely. I think we're all, hopefully complex beings who live in multiple worlds. We wear different hats. I didn't even realize that till I became a parent eight years ago. All these people who are big business types and high flying are also playing with their kids at home and doing baby talk. And that's not a very profound insight, but it's something I had to, like, experience myself that was like, oh, you know, everybody's like this to some extent. I just may be a little more weird than most.
- [15:16]
DJ Kashmir
I'm curious partly selfishly, because I can relate to this feeling of getting itchy if you're not getting to scratch particular interests that you have. And I guess I'm curious about, like, given everything that Buddhism teaches us about letting go and about no fixed and permanent self anyway, et cetera, et cetera. Like, how do you think about what are the parts of you that you just, like you said, want to create a permission structure for, want to just allow to be as they are versus how do you know when you know, oh, actually that's really ego that's driving that desire or that's something I do have to let go of.
- [15:53]
Jay Michelson
Yeah, I mean, that is. That's the $64 Dharma question. I think I'm enough of a Western humanist to believe that a little bit of ego is okay. These are profound desires that we have, and I'm not so Buddhist that I would just exclude those. But it's certainly the case that it's very mixed, right. With my activism work. Some of what I was interested in was impact. Some of what I was interested in was fame and power. I, of course, have the best ideas, so I wanted those ideas to have the biggest possible platform, even apart from my brilliant ideas. Like, I am just so great that I want to have the biggest platform. And, you know, I see that really clearly, and I certainly see it in a lot of my colleagues, not only myself. For a while, I did feel like the non self piece was really helpful for me. It's like, well, why, you know, we don't want to, like, identify too much with any one of these social roles that we have. Right. So isn't it great that I have lots of social roles? So I don't. But then I noticed I was still identifying with all of them, just in a kind of schizoid, multi personality way. Like, I was still actually doing that selfing. But I think on a more practical level, certainly I just don't know how people do full time activist work or I'm an opinion writer. So I see my journalism work largely as a kind of activism. It's so draining and depleting. I have this story one time back when I was doing LGBTQ activism. This was during the years when America was debating same sex marriage and I went out on the road a lot. I spoke at something like 110 educational or religious institutions in this two year period, like it was a lot of stuff. And I would get heckled once in a while. And one time somebody heckled me immediately in that moment, it was very insulting. He was like, gay people. That's no different from bestiality. So that's pretty insulting. Right? And so obviously I felt insulted and I wanted to like punch him in the face, if not literally, then verbally. But at that moment, there was that little bit of spaciousness. Viktor Frankl maybe never actually said that. In between the stimulus and response, there's freedom. And there was just that moment where I could think tactically about what can I do in this moment. Obviously I'm not here to persuade this guy, he's not in the persuadables, but there were like a hundred other people in that room and I could be the bigger person. I could be more calm and I could be more reasonable. I don't always live up to that. But in that particular moment I did a, you know, kind of a tactful response, trying to dress the rest of the audience and not him, and definitely not descending to his level. And that happens every day. Right. I'd be around a table on CNN with people who I strongly disagree with and trying to think carefully and tactfully, not always making the right decisions, but at least having the space inside to see where I'm triggered, see where I'm activated, maybe not act from that. And sometimes, one time in particular, actually, I really failed at that. It was right after the 2024 election. It's like looking in a mirror. You can see where meditation practice is working and where it doesn't.
- [18:54]
DJ Kashmir
That makes me curious about something you've brought up a few times, which is this notion that mindfulness meditation and other sort of contemplative practices, or contemplative technologies, potentially you have some level of faith that they could be one key part of surviving as a species. And I guess I'm curious. On the one hand, it feels pretty inarguable to me that if, you know, if every single person, for example, who held elected office or every single person who is a CEO or was on the board of a Fortune 500 company, if we could flip a switch and all of those people would have 20 years of meditation training, we might have a less reactive world. But of course, in the absence of that switch, it's easy to be cynical. So where does your hope lie?
- [19:38]
Jay Michelson
Yeah, I mean, I'm both. And on this too, I'm a pretty cynical sarcastic bitch.
- [19:44]
DJ Kashmir
So I think you're the first teacher of the month to self identify as a bitch.
- [19:49]
Jay Michelson
That's good. One person actually, as we were talking about my multiple careers, but one person once called me an intellectual drag queen, which is definitely the best. You could put that on my, on my tombstone.
- [19:59]
DJ Kashmir
You just wrote the title for the episode.
- [20:00]
Jay Michelson
Great. I'll live into it. I embrace it. You and I have both seen in our years in this business that mindfulness can be co opted and cheapened into McMindfulness and that it can just make the worried well feel like a little bit better about themselves. And it can even have this kind of perverse impact where I can calm myself and therefore I don't look outward as much or I'm tending so much. It's a balance, right? We want to tend to our own resilience and our own self care, right? But it can also slide into. We do that so much, right, that we just turn away from things we maybe shouldn't turn away from. And I don't mean like the news right now. I think whatever balance people find with regulating their news intake is fine, but I just mean it more generally. It can be used as a technology of selfishness. I still feel like though that it doesn't have to be a hundred percent of people become like suddenly kind and compassionate. If 10% of people get 10% more that way, that's great. Or at least it's a decent start. I agree about your point about, you know, political leaders and CEOs, but what about like people who are commenting on Facebook or Twitter or something? Like if there's just a way to turn down some of the rancor. Obviously it's like a cliche at this point to note how polarized America is. And left, right and center can all get like pretty activated to put it mildly. And we do have a kind of media culture and a political culture that just loves cortisol, right? The stress hormone. We just love it when people do that. And one reason we love it is it's easy to monetize, right? The most successful content. That's why the 10% app is doing so well, because it just angers people so much. That's why you have so many downloads.
- [21:38]
DJ Kashmir
Just kidding, right?
- [21:40]
Jay Michelson
That's a challenge, right? It's whatever generates the strongest emotional response, which is usually a negative emotional response, gets rewarded financially to the people who are serving that to you. So we do have that culture in place. I don't think that just individual action will save the world. I think we need collective action on the most important issues that we face. However, Individual action can really shift the way in which we relate to one another, the way in which we navigate difference, the way we think a little bit more introspectively before dignifying our fears or our rage with a kind of verbal or physical response. So yeah, I share the cynicism and I also think it's really both and you know, and a lot has to do with how it's given over and how it's taught and what people's intentions are. Like I said before, it's not a short term fix. And there are plenty of meditators who are also assholes. But it makes the odds a little better that at least I won't be one of them or you.
- [22:40]
DJ Kashmir
I still have asshole moments, but I think it is inarguable that I have less than I would have without the practice.
- [22:47]
Jay Michelson
It's helpful to be in relationship around that. It's funny actually now because I've been meditating, doing it so long. I don't have a lot of friends who knew me 25 years ago, but I do have a few and they can just report back. So it's not even a self assessment. That's really powerful for me. I've seen it in myself also countless times. There was one time I was leading meditation, I was meditating with my eyes open, which is a way to meditate. And I saw someone in the group that I was leading move, you know, which is a bad thing. You're not supposed to move. But my first thought, my actual first thought, not what I thought I ought to think, but my actual first response really, actually was compassion for that person. Like they were moving because they were uncomfortable or they were feeling pain. And I hope they can get back to their meditation. I hope it didn't disturb them too much. And it's easy to like say you ought to think that, but I actually did. That was my first reaction. That was already many years ago that happened. That just showed me like it is actually possible, thanks to neuroplasticity, to get in the gears a little bit. I just wish it didn't take so much work, which is one reason I've been to psychedelics in the last few years.
- [23:53]
DJ Kashmir
Right.
- [23:53]
Jay Michelson
They're a little more dangerous, but they work faster.
- [23:56]
DJ Kashmir
A couple shortcuts couldn't hurt. Yeah.
- [23:58]
Jay Michelson
Yeah.
- [23:58]
DJ Kashmir
I want to ask you to talk about these guided meds you've put together for us in a second. But just one more question before we go there. You started off early in the conversation talking about being this neurotic Jewish kid in the suburbs. And I just wonder, like, given all of these years of meditation, how neurotic are you now? You know, what's. What has your personal path been in terms of just settling, given your conditioning, given what you inherited in your nervous system?
- [24:25]
Jay Michelson
Yeah. First of all, should I go get my partner? He's right downstairs. I think he's the expert on that. I am. I'd say two or three things. One, it's. And this is like, one of those weird things that people who do meditation a while recognize instantly. But people who are starting out might seem a little weird. Just being aware of the state you're in is different from being captured by that state. And that has a lot of immediate impacts. Right. So, you know, I still can get angry, right? But I can be aware that I'm angry and take some steps. Like, I could take space, right. Or I could just shut up, right, and not speak back. Just in that moment, you know, I can see. And just having that internal barometer, I can even embody it, right. I feel it in my heartbeat. I feel heat. I feel my arms tense up. Like, I've just seen it so many times in meditation, like in the kind of laboratory of sitting meditation, that then in regular life, I see it. I'm like, oh, all right. Just be a little careful. Right? So even when I'm triggered, there's like, just that. And again, it doesn't need to be a hundred percent. There's better chance that I won't respond in that moment. And triggered is now, like, one of those annoying 2020s where it's maybe you could just say activated, Right. I'm just having a response. And that's clearly. That's before and after. Right. That's really changed. They pass more quickly. Yeah, right. It doesn't take as long to get back, and it's then easier. This was a second thing to be with the uncomfortable, which includes things like apologizing or owning your mistakes or being accountable. Like, it's actually possible to be in those difficult moments a little bit better. Every relationship has its dynamics, but we've gotten pretty good, my partner and I, at making sure that some repair is done when there's been a crossed wire of one kind or another. And the third, I would say. And this could transition to talking about the meditations, because what did I say? I'm a cynical, sarcastic bitch, right? So, like, I picked some of the meditations that I want to give over just to irritate Dan, because I would say, like, the third impact that I've seen For me, again, does have. Obviously, Dan and I are good friends. I love what he's done in the world. Where we differ a little bit is I like the idea of spirituality. I like these kinds of states of consciousness that feels close to love and close to what I understand to be the sacred and in relationship. It doesn't have to be a deity or whatever, but just in those aspects of life that are fleeting and beautiful and can really interrupt the default mode, network for a moment and provide a quick glimpse or a quick immersion in transcendence. And, you know, in this last almost decade of my life as a parent, I've stopped going on long meditation retreats. It puts a lot of burden on my partner. It's just. It's not what I do anymore. And I've been doing a lot of small moments many times and just having the capacity, which I've built over a long period of time, which I love to teach, of just settling back in a micro way and dropping into awareness. What one friend of mine calls going upstream, like upstream of what we're thinking about and upstream into consciousness or awareness itself. Just doing that over and over again really is like a source of happiness. And that I think for me would be the third major change that I'm really, really grateful for. Motivated enough by it to try to share it with others.
- [27:50]
DJ Kashmir
At least one of the meditations that you're offering in February comes to mind. There are some. Some warm and. And fuzzy vibes, but there's also one to your point that's really about quite practically training on the cushion to, as you say, drop into awareness. Learning that so that it's a thing you can do throughout the day. And that really lands with me as someone. Also, I've got two little kids and going on a long retreat is pretty hard to figure out how to do right now. Things that take 10 seconds or things that take 30 seconds, you know, still hard to remember to do them, but really great to practice those, to get instruction in those.
- [28:26]
Jay Michelson
Totally agree. There's a decent amount of science now on meditation, both how it works and the impacts it has. I don't think we really understand some of the mechanism. There is something even if, let's say, if you sit 20 minutes in the morning and then you get into your busy life and the kids are screaming or whatever, and there seems to just be some kind of resonance or residue left over that carries over. And again, it's not like magic protection armor that repels everything, but it does seem to. And I don't know that we really understand that. I think that's also true with these small moments. Many times, you know, I'll sometimes just be sitting at my desk, I'll be doing a bunch of work and just sitting back in the chair. A five second practice of releasing, of becoming aware of awareness. I can't explain how. I'm definitely not a scientist in any case, but it does just seem to have a kind of carryover or spillover effect. And everybody can take five seconds. It's not like a beginner's practice. In a certain way, it takes some familiarity with the mind. But for people who've done just even basic mindfulness meditation, it's something that we can learn. It's a little different from just taking a deep breath and relaxing, but it can be as simple as that. And I love that. That's definitely part of my everyday. Yeah, it's just a part of how I get through life in a way that feels sometimes joyful even. It's hard to say that for people listening. Well, I have no idea what it's going to happen before you hear these words, so I have to be careful. If the AGI takes over between now and then, there won't be any problem. Anyway, yes, finally we'll be saved.
- [29:59]
DJ Kashmir
What a pleasure this has been. I know you have some live Sangha meetings coming up for 10% users starting this Tuesday. You also have these guided meditations that are going to be dropping throughout February. Excited for all of that. Are there things outside of that that you want to plug or make us aware of if we just want to find more about you?
- [30:17]
Jay Michelson
Sure. I already plugged the substack, which is just jmichelson.substack.com it's mostly about the intersection of spirituality and meditation and politics, so where those two intersect. And I will be teaching this spring for the New York Insight Meditation Center. It's going to be a once a month course on the five precepts in the Buddhist tradition, but through an LGBTQ lens. So open to everybody. But how do these precepts from a very different time and place apply or not apply to our lived experience? And that's going to be both in person in New York, but also online so people can sign up from anywhere. And New york insight is n y imc.org awesome.
- [30:56]
DJ Kashmir
Looking forward to practicing with you this month. And we'll put links to those other offerings in the show notes. And thanks so much for doing all of this.
- [31:04]
Jay Michelson
Sure thing. Thanks dj.
- [31:08]
Dan Harris
Thank you to Jay and to dj. Don't forget to check out the new app where Jay is our Teacher of the Month. That means he'll be producing guided meditations and also leading some of our weekly live meditation and Q and a sessions. Danharris.com There's a free 14 day trial. Finally, thank you very much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our Managing producer, Marissa Schneiderman is our Senior producer, DJ Kashmir is our Executive Executive producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.