Podcast Summary: "How To Deal With Difficult Emotions, Difficult Feedback, and Difficult Parts of Your Own Mind" with Diane Musho Hamilton
10% Happier with Dan Harris
Episode Release Date: April 16, 2025
Guest: Diane Musho Hamilton, Zen Buddhist Teacher and Professional Conflict Mediator
Book Discussed: Waking Up and Growing: Spiritual Cross Training for an Evolving World
Introduction to Spiritual Cross Training
Dan Harris opens the episode by introducing the concept of spiritual cross training, described by Diane Musho Hamilton as a holistic approach that integrates meditation with practical interpersonal skills. Diane emphasizes that meditation alone is insufficient without the ability to apply its insights in everyday interactions. She asserts, “If you haven't developed any sense of interpersonal hygiene, meditation isn’t enough” (06:04).
Cultivating Emotional Maturity
Diane delves into emotional maturity, defining it as the ability to handle emotions effectively rather than avoiding or over-identifying with them. She highlights the importance of understanding and processing emotions to enhance interpersonal relationships. Diane explains, “Maturity is moving from raw feeling and either avoiding feeling or over-identifying with feeling to truly understanding what our emotions are communicating” (23:07).
Notable Quote:
“There’s a high correlation between good relationships, altruism, and how people report happiness.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (09:41)
The Foundations of Zen Meditation Practice
The conversation transitions to Zen meditation (zazen), where Diane distinguishes it from secular mindfulness practices. She describes zazen as “cross-legged sitting meditation” that can encompass various techniques like loving-kindness or choiceless awareness. Diane emphasizes the importance of letting go of the egoic self during meditation to allow the mind to relax and expand. She states, “Shikantaza means just sitting where you're not doing any kind of internal technique, but simply being aware” (13:26).
Notable Quote:
“There’s nothing more hellish than sitting for a long sitting period as a self.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (15:22)
Integrating Shadow and Psyche
Diane introduces the concept of the shadow, rooted in Jungian psychology, referring to the hidden aspects of our personality that we project onto others. She explains the importance of shadow work in spiritual cross training to bring these hidden traits into awareness. Diane outlines a technique called the Three-Two-One Shadow Exercise, which involves:
- Third Person: Complaining about a trait in someone else.
- Second Person: Journaling as if addressing that trait.
- First Person: Owning that trait within oneself.
She shares a personal anecdote about overcoming defensiveness in a mediation context, illustrating how recognizing and addressing her own shadows improved her professional relationships. Diane remarks, “Shadow work is really important in spiritual cross training” (36:17).
Notable Quote:
“If you can find even a drop of it in yourself, it will change your relationship to how you deal with them.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (45:06)
Living with Purpose and Presence
The discussion moves to living with purpose, where Diane differentiates between meaning (internal significance) and purpose (external direction). She shares her personal journey of discovering her vocation in conflict mediation by shifting her focus from what she wanted to what others were telling her she was good at. Diane explains, “Intention guides attention” (55:20).
Notable Quote:
“People who are clear about their purpose, they enjoy life and can be very simple.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (50:57)
Ethical Action and Community
Diane emphasizes the role of ethical action and community in spiritual cross training. She highlights the necessity of ethical agreements in both professional settings and personal relationships to foster trust and cooperation. Diane discusses the challenges of maintaining authenticity within groups and the importance of handling differences constructively. She states, “Ethics is really the agreements that we would make with each other in terms of how we are going to treat each other” (58:35).
Notable Quote:
“Conformity groups are only the same and don’t allow for difference. If you only know how to deal with difference, you end up not having communities.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (64:46)
Practical Tools and Techniques
Throughout the conversation, Diane offers practical advice for listeners wanting to embark on their spiritual cross training journey:
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Starting with Natural Moments: Recognize ordinary moments of presence, such as watching a sunset or spending time with a baby, to ease into formal meditation (17:55).
Notable Quote:
“Just notice ordinary things that you do where suddenly cognition quiets down.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (17:55)
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Emotional Transmutation: Diane explains a method to transform intense emotions by allowing oneself to feel them fully before pausing the narrative and reconnecting with the body to regain coherence (31:00).
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Setting Intentions: Diane advocates for clear intention setting to guide attention and actions, aligning with spiritual vows to integrate cognitive and heartfelt commitments (56:05).
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Journaling: Utilize journaling to identify and confront shadow aspects, as Diane illustrates with her example of improving communication in her marriage (43:52).
Concluding Thoughts
Diane encourages listeners not to be overwhelmed by the comprehensive nature of spiritual cross training. She advises taking a gradual approach, allowing natural curiosity and personal challenges to guide the integration of various practices. Diane underscores the importance of being part of a community that supports growth and handles conflicts constructively.
Notable Quote:
“Don’t be so overwhelmed by the different discussions and the different techniques; trust that with meditation as a basis, you will integrate and learn these things as the time is right.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (65:01)
Final Reflections
In her closing remarks, Diane praises Dan Harris for his openness and enthusiasm for meditation and personal growth. She commends his ability to balance contemplative practices with his dynamic role as a media personality, likening it to resolving a koan—a Zen riddle.
Notable Quote:
“The way you wrestled with the relationship between the contemplative life and that of a high-powered media personality was like a real koan.” — Diane Musho Hamilton (67:07)
Resources Mentioned
- Book: Waking Up and Growing: Spiritual Cross Training for an Evolving World by Diane Musho Hamilton and Gabriel Wilson
- Other Books by Diane:
- Everything Is: A Zen Approach to Conflict Resolution
- The Zen of You and Me
- Compassionate Conversations
- Website: Two Arrows Zen
Listeners are encouraged to pre-order Diane’s upcoming book and explore her resources for further engagement in spiritual cross training and meditation retreats.
Note: Timestamps correspond to the moments in the transcript where the quotes and discussions occur.