Podcast Summary: How To Handle 4 AM Worry Spirals | Bart van Melik

Podcast: 10% Happier with Dan Harris
Date: January 25, 2026
Host: Dan Harris
Guest: Bart van Melik (Guiding Teacher, Community Meditation Center, NY)
Moderator: DJ Cashmere

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the universal experience of “everyday” worry and anxiety—especially those nagging late-night spirals. Veteran Dharma teacher Bart van Melik shares his personal experience with worry, practical mindfulness tools, and the importance of community in managing anxiety. The conversation goes beyond individual techniques to highlight how discussing fears with others and cultivating sangha (community) can transform our relationship with worry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Affirming the Universality of Worry

• [04:50] Bart van Melik: Opens by acknowledging, “I'm a worrying champion... it’s in the nature of my conditioning to... have these what if thoughts.”
• Bart humorously describes himself as a “worry warrior,” setting a relatable tone and affirming that even seasoned meditation teachers wrestle with worry.

2. Mindfulness Tools for Working with Worry

• Pause and Recognize:
  • When worries arise, Bart’s first move is to mentally say, “Here you are again” ([05:39] Bart van Melik). This approach creates space between the worry and self.
  • "This wants to be seen right now." Instead of interrogating or solving the worry, simply acknowledging its presence allows a softer approach ([06:00] Bart van Melik).
• Somatic Awareness:
  • Bart describes how worry physically manifests for him: “My toes curl up. That’s that jolt. It’s a mixture of fear, of the what if thoughts, anxiety...” ([06:18] Bart van Melik).
• Mindful Breathing (Sometimes Not Enough):
  • Bart is candid that breathing helps, but not always: “But guess what? It often doesn’t work.” ([07:09] Bart van Melik)
• Kindness Inquiry:
  • A favorite self-question: “What would kindness do right now?”—especially useful when worry feels intractable ([07:23] Bart van Melik).
• Feeling the Aversion:
  • Bart points to a deeper layer: often, we not only worry, we also hate our worry and want it to be gone, especially at 4am: “Feel the aversion, the full-blown hatred against my worrying sometimes, especially when it’s at 4am and I just need some sleep.” ([08:08] Bart van Melik)
• Talking About It:
  • Don’t go it alone. “Talking about it, sharing your fears is huge.” Bart underscores the power of letting others into your internal experience ([08:57] Bart van Melik).

3. Waking Up to Worry

• DJ Cashmere notes that most techniques require recognizing you’re worrying in the first place, which is often the hardest part ([10:23] DJ Cashmere).
• Bart agrees and points to two main facilitators:
  1. Talking about Worry in Community:
     “Reflection with other people... helps us recognize it faster.” ([11:03] Bart van Melik)
  2. Curiosity Practice:
     Simply ask, “What is this?” whenever tension arises—even before labeling it as worry.
     • “It’s just asking us to get in the habit of being curious... Just the question will snap you out of something.” ([14:05] Bart van Melik)

4. Confusion, Clinging, and Delusion

• DJ brings in Buddhist teaching: “Delusion feels like the truth.”
  • “That one really is the slipperiest and trickiest because what overwhelming percentage of the time that we’re in delusion are we walking around thinking that we're in reality?” ([15:31] DJ Cashmere)
• Bart adds: When we’re lost in worry and confusion, we cling to our opinions as facts: “We believe, we cling to these opinions.” ([15:45] Bart van Melik)

5. Community is Essential

• DJ explicitly underscores the episode’s through-line: sharing practice with others and building connection is both central and under-acknowledged in advice about meditation ([16:54] DJ Cashmere).
• Bart responds with both personal and Buddhist teachings:
  • The Buddha: “Start with friendship. That’s the first prerequisite.”
  • “If you really want to have a more wiser, kinder view on life, it only takes two: the voice of another and careful attention and mindfulness.” ([19:05] Bart van Melik)
• Bart encourages even hesitant practitioners to lean into community—online, in-person, or with friends—not just fellow meditators.

6. Building and Finding Community

• Bart describes the Community Meditation Center’s hybrid approach for both local and remote practitioners—a model for connecting when retreat or local sangha isn’t available ([22:43] Bart van Melik).
• Power of sitting together: “Even just the power of sitting together online with a group of people... it strengthens something... a sense of I’m not doing this alone.” ([21:33] Bart van Melik)
• “Ultimately, this practice is about making friends with yourself and your mind.” ([22:10] Bart van Melik)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Worrying... is almost like praying for stuff you don't want.”
  — Bart van Melik [05:13]

• “What would kindness do right now?”
  — Bart van Melik [07:23]

• “Feel the aversion, the full-blown hatred against my worrying sometimes, especially when it's at 4am and I just need some sleep.”
  — Bart van Melik [08:08]

• “Talking about it, sharing your fears is huge.”
  — Bart van Melik [08:57]

• “Delusion feels like the truth.”
  — Quoted by DJ Cashmere citing Matthew Bren Silver [14:41]

• “Start with friendship. That's the first prerequisite.”
  — Bart van Melik [19:05], paraphrasing the Buddha

• “I'm not doing this alone. I am breathing right now with so many other people.”
  — Bart van Melik [21:33]

• “This practice is about making friends with yourself and your mind.”
  — Bart van Melik [22:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:00 — Episode proper begins, DJ welcomes Bart
• 04:50–09:16 — Bart shares his personal process with worry and practical mindfulness tools
• 09:16–10:23 — DJ summarizes key strategies; question about recognizing worry
• 10:23–13:44 — Discussion on waking up to worry and the importance of curiosity
• 14:41–16:54 — Three root poisons, clinging to opinions, and confusion
• 16:54–18:52 — DJ emphasizes the importance and challenge of community
• 18:52–22:15 — Bart details community practice, Buddha's advice, power of friendship
• 22:43–23:37 — How to join Bart’s community, future offerings

Closing Resources

• Community Meditation Center (NYC): Weekly talks, hybrid (in-person & online), monthly themed practices, opportunities for engagement and retreats
• 10% Happier App: Bart as Teacher of the Month (January 2026), live meditations, continuing community
• Connect With Bart: Details and links available in episode show notes

Takeaways

• Worry is universal—even for seasoned mindfulness teachers.
• Addressing worry involves pausing, recognizing, showing kindness, and feeling all aspects of the experience—including any aversion.
• The most transformative tool is often sharing openly with others.
• Community—virtual or physical—is foundational, not secondary, to both meditation and handling difficult emotions.
• Curiosity (“What is this?”) can offer a gentle entry to more awareness and detachment from spirals of worry.
• Making friends with your mind is the heart of this approach.

This summary should give you the essence, heart, and practical wisdom of a gentle, real-world masterclass in working with worry—as well as the camaraderie and collective spirit that makes the 10% Happier community unique.