Podcast Summary: 10% Happier with Dan Harris

Episode Title: How To Increase Performance By Working At Your Edge — Plus A Quick Hack For When Panic or Anxiety Swells
Date: February 22, 2026
Host: Dan Harris
Guest: Dr. Michael Gervais (Host of Finding Mastery, High Performance Psychologist)

Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging and candid conversation between journalist and mindfulness evangelist Dan Harris and high performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais. The discussion delves into how to grow by working "at your edge," managing and transforming anxiety or panic, the practical and scientific power of self-talk and self-love, and the importance of love (broadly understood) for personal and social well-being. They also touch on how to stay engaged in political life without falling into rage, the Ideal Competitive Mindset (ICM), and practical routines for boosting resilience and happiness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Working at Your Edge for Performance & Growth

• Definition: “Working at your edge” means intentionally placing yourself in challenging situations that spark acute stress, then deliberately recovering from them. This is where growth occurs—exemplified by elite athletes and high-performance individuals.

  • Dr. Gervais: “On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, [elite athletes] are working right at the edge of their capacity, because that’s where you grow… Most of us never get to our edge on a regular day.” [30:28]

• Dan Harris’ Application: Dan discusses battling panic disorder, especially with flying, and his methodical, exposure-based approach to facing these fears—sometimes with medication and with the support of a therapist.

  • Dan: “I’m just trying to be careful, because the avoidance problem is real, but the other problem is you actually push too hard when you’re not ready and you traumatize yourself.” [29:47]

2. Managing Anxiety: From Panic to Self-Compassion

• Origin Story: Dan recounts his very public on-air panic attack at ABC, his struggles with depression and self-medication, and how these experiences led him to meditation.

  • Dan: “Wasn’t high when I was on the air, but the doctor explained that my ambient drug use made me more likely to panic.” [08:14]

• Meditation/Self-Awareness: Meditation is described not as achieving a special state, but as “a bicep curl for your brain.” The point is not perfection, but building a habit of starting over with self-awareness and non-judgment.

  • Dan: “A lot of people try meditation and then notice how distractible they are and feel like they’re failures. But actually… the whole point is to get distracted, start again. Because that is how you deal with what Eckhart Tolle was pointing out, which is that you have this crazy voice in your head.” [13:33]

• Self-Talk and Self-Compassion: In acute moments of anxiety, self-talk—especially using the third person—can tap into self-compassion and calm.

  • Dan: “Self-talk is the most useful thing for me… If you talk to yourself the way you would talk to a good friend or a mentee or a kid, it has really powerful psychological and physiological benefits.” [16:32]
  • Dan (third-person example): “Dan, yes, this may be uncomfortable, you are not going to die. This is your brain overreacting to stimuli that are actually not dangerous.” [18:15]

• Quick Hack in Panic: Touching your chest and speaking kindly to yourself in the third person is a helpful, portable tool.

  • Dan: “It does actually supercharge it if you refer to yourself in the third person.” [18:07]

3. Psychological Flexibility & Growth Protocols

• Three Foundational Skills:

  • Self-Efficacy: Belief in your own ability to effect change.
  • Purpose Mindset: Connecting actions to something bigger than yourself.
  • Psychological Agility: Being able to adaptively choose between courageously facing discomfort and wisely taking breaks when necessary.
  • Dr. Gervais: “Self-efficacy, purpose, and psychological agility would be definitely at the foundation. And each one… has a set of protocols.” [22:02]

• Exposure Therapy in Practice: Dan shares his real-world work with exposure therapy for panic triggers, including flying and elevators, often with his son as motivation to model courage and progress. [Typical segment: 27:30–32:00]

4. Love as a Performance and Happiness Principle

• Expanded Understanding: Love isn’t merely romantic; it encompasses self-compassion, micro-interactions with strangers, relationships with friends and family, and broader social concern.

  • Dan: “Love really broadly understood as a whole set of skills from self-love… to how are you with people, with strangers?... What’s your social fitness?” [66:20]
  • Dan: “If you want to be happy, you will be useful because that is the most sustainable source of happiness.” [71:37]

• Civic Engagement & Healthy Conflict: The podcast also addresses political polarization and the opportunity for healthy, cooperative conflict through exposure to differing views, modeling curiosity, and creating superordinate goals (tasks requiring cooperation across divides).

  • Dan: “The word that… should be really powering our civic lives… curiosity. Why not have a healthy second guessing, ‘Is that true? Is that really true?’” [49:40]

5. Ideal Competitive Mindset (ICM)

• Definition & Practice: ICM is about finding and training your “best self” state—whether love, curiosity, or calmness—and intentionally priming yourself to enter that state through routine.
  • Dr. Gervais: “The ICM, one of the things that we do… is we label it, which you just did… is love.” [62:16]
  • Morning Routine Cheat Sheet: Breath, gratitude, quick-hit positive imagery, presence check-in. [64:06–65:24]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meditation’s Core Move:
  “It's the art of starting over a thousand times… within maybe a handful of minutes.”
  – Michael Gervais [14:36]

• On Self-Critique in Practice:
  “All you have to do is be mindful of the kicking of your own ass.”
  – Dan Harris [16:03]

• On Facing Panic & Modeling for Kids:
  “It’s really important that you face your fears because you want your kid to see you doing that… He needs a father who is modeling a consistent facing of fears.”
  – Dan Harris [20:43]

• On Psychological Recovery:
  “Acute stress unmanaged to moderate stress—unmanaged—leads to chronic stress—unmanaged—leads to early death… Instead [aim for a] big spike, big recovery.”
  – Michael Gervais [38:34]

• On Advice for Political Engagement:
  “If you can engage with ideas that you do not like, that is going to make you stronger. That is kind of exposure therapy… Even better if you can talk to actual human beings with whom you disagree and create a relationship. It’s hard to hate up close.”
  – Dan Harris [52:54]

• On Love as a Mindset:
  “The me-to-we thing is not a hair shirt, catastrophic altruism, self-sacrificing thing. It is enlightened self-interest. If you want to be happy, you will be useful, because that is the most sustainable source of happiness.”
  – Dan Harris [71:37]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:34 – Dan describes origins of anxiety and panic.
• 09:52 – How meditation began as a practical tool.
• 13:33 – “Bicep curl for your brain” approach to meditation.
• 16:32 – Self-compassion/self-talk for panic.
• 21:19 – Skills for facing stress: self-efficacy, purpose, agility.
• 30:27 – Working at your edge; psychological skills training.
• 38:34 – Dr. Gervais on acute stress/recovery cycles.
• 46:58 – Discussion of media, curiosity, and political polarization.
• 52:54 – “It’s hard to hate up close”—on building civic connection.
• 62:16 – Ideal Competitive Mindset (ICM) and routines.
• 66:20 – The concept of love and its practical skillset.
• 71:37 – Enlightened self-interest and happiness.

Additional Insights

• Dealing with Avoidance vs. Overexposure: The episode stresses not just “powering through” anxiety, but balancing vulnerability and courage with pacing and wise withdrawal—a skill set for long-term change.
• Tools for Everyday Use: Besides meditation, the conversation offers practical micro-interventions: self-talk in crisis (especially third-person), daily mindset routines, and intentionally kind micro-interactions.
• Leadership & Parenting: Both men, as fathers and professionals, point to the power of modeling vulnerability and growth for others.

Final Thoughts

Dan Harris and Dr. Michael Gervais offer a robust, relatable conversation blending science, real-life struggle, and actionable wisdom. Listeners are encouraged to face their psychological edge, to recover well, and to see “love” as the ultimate tool for performance, resilience, and civic health.

Note: For more, Dan Harris continues to create meditation resources through his Substack and podcast, while Michael Gervais’ work is available at Finding Mastery and on social platforms.