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10% Happier with Dan Harris
How To Stop Spinning Out With Bill Hader | Staff Picks
00:23:11
We’re bringing you some of our favorite gems from the archives, as chosen by our staff. This week, we’re hearing from comedian and actor Bill Hader, as chosen by our digital media manager, Hayden Broom. Hader was part of our “Non-Negotiables”...
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- [00:00]
Bill Hader
Foreign.
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Dan Harris
It'S the 10% Happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Have you ever had that experience where your brain just gets fixated on something and just starts spiraling out? You start imagining all the horrible things that are going to happen to you? This happens to me all the time. I suspect it happens to you all the time. So what do you do in those moments? Today we're going to get advice from an unlikely source, one of our greatest living comedians, Bill Hader, who is hilarious and also quite self aware and quite willing to talk about his own stuff. So before we hear from Bill, just a little context. Last month during our Get Fit Sanely series, we asked listeners to tell us about some of their favorite episodes from past iterations of Get Fit Sanely series that we've run over the years. We heard from lots of listeners, including Abby and Shannon. It was really cool. So this month we actually wanted to ask members of the team at 10% happier to share a few of their favorite past episodes. And you will be hearing said episodes on Fridays throughout the month of July. So the way this is going to work is that after the break we're going to hear from Hayden, who's a member of our team, about why he loved the Bill Hader episode that we ran a couple years ago, specifically his favorite moment. So we'll hear from Hayden and then we'll hear the moment where Bill talks about what he does when his brain is spinning out. Before we go to break though, I just want to remind you that for this month as well as during the month of August, we will be continuing to feature bespoke meditations for every Monday and Wednesday episode featuring a Teacher of the Month. This month, all of the meditations will be coming from the wonderful meditation teacher Don Mauricio. To access those meditations, you can become a paid subscriber over at danharris. Com. One other thing before the break, we're in the midst of a big summer merch sale which ends on Monday. It's your last chance to grab up to 40% off at the merch store while supplies last. The sale ends on July 14, so don't sleep on it. Head on over to shop. Danharris.com Coming up, Hayden, the youngest member of the 10% happier team. I spent quite a bit of time on the Airbnb app recently because I've been booking a house in Barrie, Massachusetts where I'm going to stay with a friend while we do a meditation retreat. Even though we will be practicing at the Insight Meditation Society where we usually stay in cottages on the actual property. Cottages were all booked up. So my guy Josh and I are getting an Airbnb in town where we will practice for several days and check in regularly with Joseph Goldstein. And Airbnb is just super easy. You just put in the dates, you find a place where you want to stay and boom, you're done. And I realized belatedly that I needed to extend. I texted a little bit through the app with the owner of the house is super friendly. I extended my stay. Really a big fan of Airbnb. And the cool thing is you can use Airbnb as a customer but also as a provider. While you're away on vacation, you can put your home up on Airbnb. You can make the most of your space, make some extra cash. Feels like a smart thing to do. It's like you get paid for going away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host summer's now officially here and my favorite part of this whole deal is having friends over and sitting by the pool in our backyard. These long, languorous afternoons and early evenings with our friends. It's such a great way to get to know people. Hanging out in nature, watching our kids beat the crap out of each other in the pool. It's so much more intimate than what my friend Zev calls the dinner industrial complex. Not that I don't like going out to restaurants, but chilling in the backyard is huge. And of course while you're doing that, you want to be comfortable. You want to be sitting on a nice couch, you want a good grill. You want nice patio tables that are solid and can hold all the snacks that you're putting out. You want lounge chairs, day beds and umbrellas. And a place to go for all of those is Wayfair. They've got fast and easy shipping. It's never been easier to get ready to party. So however you kick back outback, go to Wayfair for effortless entertaining and game filled gatherings. It's a great selection and the website is super easy to use. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped for free. Head to Wayfair.com right now to explore a huge outdoor selection that's W a Y F W a y f a I r.com Wayfair Every style Every home.
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Hayden Broome
My name is Hayden Broome and I am the digital Content manager here at 10% Media. For my staff pick, I went with Bill Hader's episode from the Non Negotiable series. Now, I'll be honest. I'm a huge Bill Hader fan. I'm a filmmaker myself, and Barry is one of my favorite shows of all time. So I'm a little bit biased here. But also, I think this is a truly fun episode where Dan and Bill are having a great time and they're laughing, and it's full of really, really great advice. The anecdote that really sticks with me is when Bill talks about spitting out about some event later on in the week, and his therapist has to go, bill, it's Tuesday. I have these moments constantly. It's honestly a rather frequent occurrence that I'm sitting around and my brain is like, I think you said a weird thing at that party last night, and I think everyone could tell you're losing your hair.
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Bill Hader
And.
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Hayden Broome
And I got to go to the store, buy eggs, and it's like, hey, hey.
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Dan Harris
Whoa, Whoa, whoa.
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Hayden Broome
It's 9:30am let's dial it back. Relax, dude. And just doing that, acknowledging this, as Dan names it in the episode, this propancha, it fixes it really fast. Ironically, I am now anxious that I'm going too long with this. But I'll just end by saying that it's great that towards the end of the episode, Bill acknowledges that these non negotiables are exactly what they are. They are non negotiables. These are things we have to do for ourselves because we know for a fact that they. And in that vein, I'll tell you that I am loath to meditate. I find it very boring, but I do it anyway because I know that it immediately makes me feel better. And also, I work for a meditation company. But anyway, I digress. Go listen to that episode. It's fantastic.
- [06:33]
Dan Harris
Thank you so much to Hayden. All right, let's hear the part of the interview where comedian and actor Bill Hader talks about what he does when his brain is in overdrive. Bill was on the show in January of 2020, and I asked him about what he considers his non negotiables.
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Bill Hader
It's funny. So I found on my laptop an old document that I made in 2010, and it was essentially this, like, here's everything. If you do this, you always feel better. And it is simple things like meditating, exercise, drink more water than coffee, easy on the sweets. You know, those things. But also writing every day and watching something or reading something every day for me or some sort of creative work and then seeing, hearing some piece of art, whether it's a movie or a book or going to a museum or something. Just. That is very inspiring. But I always know I feel better when I meditate and when I'm working out and I'm watching what I'm eating. And then I would say, so that was done now, 14 years ago. And every day, I try to negotiate myself out of the negotiables, and it's like, I don't really need this. You know, every time I talk to a doctor, I'm like, but I can live on candy, right? People live on candy. You know, it's like, what's wrong with eating two pints of ice cream every day? That's not an issue, right? And he's like, that's a huge issue. You'll be very. That's not good at all. You know, during the pandemic, I got so anxious and went into such a hold that I didn't meditate. You know, I was so freaked out, and I didn't really exercise. And then mentally, yeah, it made me. Sent me into, like, a stupor, you know? And so that took a long time to kind of get out of. But I've noticed that when I do those things, when I take the time in the morning especially to do those things, I just become much more open. I listen, I'm present. I had a therapist say, you write really negative narratives for the future. If I see we're in traffic and I see cop cars in an ambulance and a fire truck, I immediately think, oh, my kids and their mom are just in a car accident. And he's like, that's a pretty dark narrative. And I'm like, have you seen my show? He's like, I think you need to work on those better narratives, more positive narratives. And I think meditation, sleep, it's easier to take it easy on myself when those things are present. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not apologizing for it. I'm from Oklahoma, you know, so it's like, I'm gonna go in a room and sit and close my eyes. Like, you don't call it meditation. You're like, I'm thinking, you know, because you don't want to be judged or something. You know what I mean? I need to stretch. If I just said that to some of my friends back home, they'd be like, I just. It's one of those things that you've learned that the hippies were right, and that sucks. You know, I'm 45. And you're like, all those hippie dudes were right, and that blows. It's Like, I should eat well, I should stretch. I should get out, play ultimate Frisbee, meditate, be a vegetarian and, like, listen to jazz or whatever. I still can't get into the Grateful Dead, but jazz. Now I'm like, this is good music. I'm getting old. So I don't know, man, but that.
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Dan Harris
Sounds like the challenge for you is remembering or agreeing to actually do these no brainers that we can all agree on. Yes.
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Bill Hader
I have to really make myself do it. And in the minute I'm doing it, it is an anticipatory anxiety thing. It is that negative, what do you call, you know, narrative thing. If I do this, I'll be late to this or. But, oh, no, no, I got to do this right now. Because if I don't take out the trash cans right now and clean my entire house right now, and you're just. It's like, relax. Like you. I know you had a panic attack on air. I had a panic attack on air on Saturday Night Live. I was doing a sketch as Julian Assange. I was playing Julian Assange, and I was exhausted, and Jeff Bridges was hosting. And I showed up to work that day and Seth Meyers was like, hey, Julian Assange just. They hacked. I forgot what it was. And he's like, so we're writing a cold open and you're Julian Assange. And I just went into a complete panic because I did it twice already and it took years off my life because you. You know, to me, it's just the live television aspect of it and the countdown and 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now the whole nation is there. The red light goes on, and I'm doing an impression I'm not comfortable with, and I don't feel like I have it yet. And I'm like a perfectionist. So I'm like, freaking out that the impression's not good. So, yeah, I started to do. It was the third week in a row where I had to do it, and I was exhausted. I was just drinking coffee all day and eating sugar, and I went on air and suddenly it was like I started shaking. I had a wine glass, and I just put the wine glass in front of my face because I was like, abort, abort, abort. And my brain, that word was just going, abort. Get out, get out, get out. And the red light came on and I was going, abort. Jenna, our stage manager, was motioning for me. She was to put the wine glass down. Like, we can't see your face. Put the wine glass down. And I just kept it there, and then I kind of brought it down, and then it would kind of creep back up, and then I would bring it down, and then I went off stage and I just went to my knees and just in a hallway and just, like, trying to breathe and the whole thing. And that's when I was like, there's something wrong. Because before that, it was just, oh, I worry a lot, you know? And that was like, oh, there's something very wrong here. And so that was when I started to look into, like, doing meditation and taking care of myself. But because I like that TV aspect was just too. It was too much. But now I look back at it and I'm like, oh, yeah. Before every show, I would get tired, and I would. I would drink a huge. I would drink, like, three cups of coffee because I was exhausted. And then I go out there and I'm like, just. And then I don't know how you are, but people go, God, I can never tell. You seem so fine. And I'm like, I was dying inside. It was hard.
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Dan Harris
I have so much empathy for that. I mean, as you know, I've had the exact same experience, although I was only imitating a news anchor version of myself.
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Bill Hader
I watched yours, and I felt that. That thing. I could tell you're, like, trying to catch your breath, and that's how I felt. It was like, yeah, I can't catch my breath. I'm shaking. And then the terrifying thing is everybody's noticing. Yes. Yes. And then it's like, I can see Jenna when she was, like, motioning, like, take the cup down from your face. Then that made the panic 10 times worse. Like, great. She notices. This isn't just in my head. She notices I was shit. Now everybody knows. And that was awful. Yeah. So, yeah, I watched yours, and I thought you handled that really well. Like, how you just threw to the other people and got out of there. I thought that was really commendable because, yeah, you're. You feel very much out of control. And I. I still have panic attacks. They're way less.
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Dan Harris
Did you ever try beta blockers?
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Bill Hader
No, I never tried beta blockers. And you talked about this, I think, in your book. But I had a similar thing that you had, which was, I thought I had, like, the flu at one point. We were moving, and my wife at the time was pregnant with her second child. And I just finished my seventh season of snl. It was. A lot was happening, and I was like, I have the flu. Like, my arms and legs are really tired. They're super Weighted down. I can't see straight. And I thought something was really, horribly wrong with me. And I went to a doctor, and they're like, I think you might be depressed, or I think you might just be really anxious. And I was like, no, no, no. There's something definitely wrong with me. I'm, like, walking through water all day. You know, I went on a Lexapro, and then, like, a small dose of Lexapro, and then, like, the next day, it was gone.
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Dan Harris
Well, then that was the placebo effect, because it would take.
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Bill Hader
Yeah, right, right. Yeah. I was like, oh, the next day it's gone. And they're like, well, it can't work that fast, right? And I was like, oh. So it's in my. Okay. So it's in my head. And I had a therapist say. I go, yeah, I get really dizzy and I can't see straight, and I'll, like, I'll stay home for weeks being like, there's something wrong with me. And she said, here, try this. Just go, this is anxiety. Just say it out loud. Go, this is anxiety. She goes, every time you hit the wave, just go, this is anxiety. And I did that, and it would go away within 30 minutes. It was crazy. And I was like, wow, I had no idea the power that this can have over you. You know what I mean? And. And you realize I'm realizing this in my 40s, and I've been living with it your whole life. Yeah. It's wild.
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Dan Harris
What are your earliest memories of being anxious or depressed or having just mental health challenges?
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Bill Hader
I would say, like, missing the bus was a big one, like, getting on the school bus, and I would have, like, this fear that the school bus was gonna not take me to school. You know what I mean? It was stuff like that, or I'm gonna miss the bus, or the bus driver isn't gonna know where to go. And I would really freak out. And then in class, I would never raise my hand if I had a question or whatever. I would always kind of go up to the teacher afterwards and be like, hey. So I don't understand this. Just the shame of being wrong or looking like a fool and being ostracized or something like that. And then, you know, everybody just was always like, you just worry a lot. And it's funny, the meditation I learned was TM was helpful for a while, and then I didn't really learn mindfulness until, like, a couple months ago. That's been really helpful in terms of pinpointing how I'm feeling. And, you know, it's just different. It's been really great. So I'm like, now on a whole, mindfulness. I'm reading Mark Epstein and all your friends, like all those books and stuff has been really helpful. And I think a lot of people go through it. As you get older, it just becomes more and more apparent. You're like, God, I hate feeling like this. I want to try to, like, work on it. So it's been great.
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Dan Harris
I think a lot of the people listening to the show know the difference between TM and mindfulness, but I suspect we're probably going to have some new listeners because people want to hear from. You have never heard of me before. What. What in your mind is the difference between TM and mindfulness?
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Bill Hader
Well, tm, they give you a mantra, and you just kind of repeat a mantra. And the whole point of TM is trying to, like, not think. You go back to the mantra, and you kind of. It kind of lulls you into this state of transcendence or a very deep relaxation. It's almost the opposite, in my mind, at least, of mindfulness. And that way, you're just focusing on the. The mantra and nothing else. Mindfulness is. You're very much focusing on your breath. So what the mantra was. And TM and mindfulness, as you know, is like the breath, and you focus on that. And then when sensations are coming up, you are very aware of them. You go to them, and you're open to them, and it's very much kind of, I'm sitting. You're very much mindful of your body in the chair, the sensations you're having, and then issues that, you know, you might be having in that moment. I'm angry, you know, or as Joseph Goldstein said, you know, a quiet note. I'm angry, you know, or I'm upset, or this. And so you're kind of pinpointing a specific thing. That's very helpful for me. So at this stage, not that TM is a bad practice, but for me personally, at this stage where I'm at the. Mindfulness has been very helpful in. In terms of going and being mindful of, like, oh, yeah, I get really riled up about this. And now I'm aware of it. I'm not lost in it. Or the TM would just kind of put me into, like, a. I would just relax. And it's like. For me, it was like, you know, I have a warm bath or something. You're like, what's up? What just happened? What was I mad about? You know. Yeah, everybody was Like Rick Moranis and Spaceballs. After he, like, hits his head and he gets up, you know, and he's like, hey, guys. You guys smoke him if you got him. You know, it's kind of like that thing. It was like. That's how I was after. After lunch, I would do tm, and everybody would be like, oh, man. Bill's. He just did his meditation because he's like, hey, what's going on, everybody? He's not like a weird, quiet guy, but the mindfulness is helpful. Just in, like I was saying earlier, where it's like, okay, this is what's happening in my body right now. And you're just aware of it. Like, right now, I feel like I'm talking too much. So there's like, a mindful thing going. You're talking too much, Dan. Might want to talk about something else. And you're talking about this other stuff. Because I can do that when I get nervous, I talk a lot. So it's like, hey, when you get nervous, you talk a lot, but it's not beating yourself up over it. It's like you have a sense of humor about it. Yes, yes.
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Dan Harris
There was a great line from this guy, Ram Dass, who was. He wasn't a Buddhist per se. He came more out of the Hindu tradition, but he was this, like, Jewish guy from the Boston area who was a teacher at Harvard and got kicked out of Harvard because he was given the students acid or something like that. I'm probably mangling this somewhat, but.
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Bill Hader
Oh, did he know Timothy Leary?
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Dan Harris
Yeah, he was. He and Timothy Leary were doing the acid or stuff together with the.
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Bill Hader
With.
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Dan Harris
With the kids. And so they got both kicked out. And Richard Alpert, who went on to become Ram Dass and was in many ways very influential for the people that you referred to as my friends, like Joseph Goldstein and Mark Epstein and Sharon Salzberg, he's very influential figure for them. But he has this thing that I. The reason why I'm bringing him, because it really relates to everything you just said, which is that you can do meditation for a long time, and it doesn't mean you don't worry anymore. It's more like you become a connoisseur of your neuroses. You just kind of appreciate them and see them with a sense of humor.
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Bill Hader
Yeah, you kind of shrug at it and go, there's that fucking asshole. Well, it's like, yeah, they just kind of come in and it's like, yeah, of course. I'm like that. Instead of me being, like, caught up in it. Like, oh, my God, I'm so. You know, you're. You're in the. The whirlpool, and it's, you know, a raging river, and you're being swallowed down by it. You're kind of off to the side with your arms crossed being like, ah, Jesus, there's that asshole again. That's kind of how I am. Or like, I'm worrying about this. But, you know, I did it the other day with my therapist where I was like, oh, I'm feeling sick. And I'm supposed to go to this event and the events this weekend, and if I. If I'm sick, then I'm gonna have to do this, and I might have to wear a mask. And then, I don't know, it feels impersonal and blah, blah. And he went, bill, it's Tuesday. What is wrong with you? No, right. I see what you're saying. Anyway, yeah, like, stop. And I used to think that was invalidating your feelings or whatever. And it's kind of nice to have in the mindfulness. And I think you've talked about this. I think it's important to be doing mindfulness and therapy and whatever else you can be doing. Because I used to think, hey, I'm meditating. That's great. I mean, I'm drinking a ton of coffee and staying up all night and not working out, and I eat Jack in the box every night. But, hey, I'm meditating. And it's like, why am I freaking out all the time? You know, I'm meditating, dating. But it's all kind of part of a thing. So, yeah, it was funny to have him kind of say, like, yeah, man, I'm not invalidating your feelings. I'm just saying you're driving yourself crazy. Like, stop. You don't have to drive yourself crazy. Try it. Just give it a shot. And it's true. It's really nice.
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Dan Harris
You know, there's a name, There's a technical term for the spinning out you were doing on Tuesday with the shrink about the. About the party on the weekend. It's propuntia.
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Bill Hader
Propancha.
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Dan Harris
It's an ancient. Oh, wow, ancient word. And it means the imperialistic tendency of mind. The fact that we have a data point in the present moment, which is, okay, I feel like shit. And then we make this phantasmagoric mental movie projecting into the future, and. And we're imperializing the future with this negative movie making, and just the fact that there's a name for this thing that's ancient, that's ancient. Yes. Really, it really, it takes some of the air out of it.
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Bill Hader
It's like, oh, it takes the pressure off you.
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Dan Harris
Yes. Yes. Thank you to Bill Hader and thanks again to Hayden for suggesting that excerpt. We'll put a link to the full episode in the show notes. Don't forget that you can get brand new custom meditations with every Monday, Wednesday episode this month. Our teacher of the Month is Don Mauricio. Those guided meditations are available only to paid subscribers over@danharris.com so get on over there and sign up if you haven't done that already. Also, you can take advantage of our merch sale. It ends on Monday, July 14, with up to 40% off selected items over at shop.danharris.com finally, thank you to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer, Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer, DJ Cashmere is our executive producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.