← 10% Happier with Dan Harris
10% Happier with Dan Harris
Seth Meyers On: Handling Performance Anxiety, Managing the Inner Critic, Hacks for Better Conversation, and Staying Joyful in Dark Times
00:44:27
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- [00:00]
Seth Meyers
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Dan Harris
This is the 10% Happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hey. Hey everybody. How we doing? One of the quirks of the Trump era is that hosting a late night television show, which used to be a rather apolitical position, is now very much about drinking out of the fire hose of news and then commenting on it, hopefully in a way that makes everybody laugh instead of cry and also gives us a dose of joy that can then produce some resiliency. That very much is the way my guest today, Seth Meyers, sees his job. And you're going to hear him discuss all of that in this interview. You'll also hear him talk about his techniques for staying sane in the middle of today's news environment, how he handles his inner critic when he receives tough feedback, how he's learned to find humor in his imperfections as a parent, the value of mild stage fright, and much more. I think all of you know who Seth is, but just in case you don't, Seth is the host of Late Night with Seth Meyers. Before that, he was a cast member on Saturday night live for 13 seasons. In recent years, he's released two standup specials, Lobby Baby on Netflix and Dad Man Walking on HBO Max. He also wrote a children's book called I'm Not Scared, You're Scared. And he co hosts two podcasts, Family Trips with the Myers Brothers and the Lonely island and Seth Meyers Podcast. Before we dive in, a quick plug for my new app, 10% with Dan Harris. You can sign up over@danharris.com there's a free 14 day trial. Talking to Seth today reminded me that I've always nursed this desire to be a late night host myself. That's almost certainly never gonna happen. But I do host my own little weekly meditation show Every Tuesday at 4 Eastern. Over on the app, we do a live meditation and Q and A session. Our next live sit is coming up on Tuesday, January 20th. We do these every Tuesday at 4 Eastern. I'll be joined by our teacher of the month, Bart Van melick. Sign up danharris.com we'll get started with Seth Meyers right after this. When the holidays wind down and we're starting a new year, one thing I crave is to be comfortable. Holidays are a busy time. We've got lots of parties to go to, lots of entertaining to do. And for me, the holidays this year were particularly busy because I was on a deadline for finishing the latest draft of my never ending book project. Anyway, so the thing that I crave the most coming into this new year was to be comfortable and cozy around the house. Which brings me to one of our sponsors today, Cozy Earth. Because they really deliver on their promise. They deliver luxury, comfort that makes home the best part of life. They make all kinds of cozy stuff. I'm talking fluffy towels, super comfortable sheets, pajamas, loungewear. I'm a power user of the Cozy Earth loungewear by the way. Love that stuff. It's a risk free purchase, 100 night sleep trial. Try out their stuff. If you don't love it, return hassle free. In my experience, you won't want to return it. There's a 10 year warranty because once you feel this level of comfort, you'll want it to last for a decade. Start the new year off right and give your home the luxury it deserves and make home the best part of Life. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code HARRIS for up to 20% off. That's cozyearth.com code HARRIS. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the 10% Happier podcast. Refresh your routines with comfort that makes every day feel like a new year. The best B2B marketing often gets wasted on the wrong people. I can't tell you how often I'm scrolling and I get served ads for stuff I have no interest in. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over a billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all major ad networks. So seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com happier. That's LinkedIn.com happier. Terms and conditions apply. Seth Meyers, welcome to the show.
- [04:57]
Seth Meyers
So happy to be here, Dan.
- [04:58]
Dan Harris
Pleasure to have you. Okay, I have a million questions for you.
- [05:01]
Seth Meyers
I've got time for nine.
- [05:03]
Dan Harris
Okay, I have.
- [05:05]
Seth Meyers
Hit me with your best nine.
- [05:06]
Dan Harris
Yeah, I'll whittle it down.
- [05:07]
Seth Meyers
Okay, good.
- [05:08]
Dan Harris
Just as a top line question, I don't think this was always the case for late night hosts. But now if you're a late night television host, you are like in the news cycle deeply.
- [05:20]
Seth Meyers
That's a Little strange.
- [05:21]
Dan Harris
Deeply. And so my question for you is, like, how do you keep your shit together, given that you are by necessity drinking and out of the fire hose?
- [05:29]
Seth Meyers
Well, one of the loveliest things is an honest answer to where do I get my news? Is I get it from Late Night with Seth Meyers in that I show up in the morning and my very talented writing staff has written a first draft. And so often I'm like, oh, that's really. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm glad we're talking about this.
- [05:48]
Dan Harris
You know, Meaning you have not encountered these items in the news before you've walked into 30 Rock.
- [05:56]
Seth Meyers
I will say I do a little bit. But over the course of the weekend, what I've learned, and it is a gift, by the way. It's a pyrrhic victory, Dan, in that the world is such right now that you don't actually have to pay attention to Saturday's news because it is such old hat by Monday. Like, so much is happening now. You know, when this show started in 2014, I really did think it was my job to, like, pay attention to the news over the course of the weekend so I can be ready for Monday show. And now it's sort of like late Sunday, sort of tune back in late Sunday, and that's ultimately what you can talk about on Monday. But yeah, I mean, am I part of the fire hose? I am, but I try not to get too caught up with it in that when I'm in the office, I'm paying very close attention to what's going on in the world. And then when I'm out of the office, I try to focus on being a part of a operational family.
- [06:45]
Dan Harris
And you're pretty good at the, like, digital hygiene when you're with your family?
- [06:49]
Seth Meyers
I am. I would say if I have a digital hygiene problem when I'm out of the office, it's probably like more sports related than like, you know, the actual, the actual news. So I can have wild swings, wild mood swings, but they're thankfully not due to anything that's happening in D.C. right.
- [07:07]
Dan Harris
It's pegged to your fortunes on FanDuel.
- [07:11]
Seth Meyers
I happy to say it's more due to like, real loyalty as opposed to any wagers, people. I'm not a gambler, but I've bet the entirety of my heart on a few sports teams that have not come through with me.
- [07:24]
Dan Harris
Which are those teams?
- [07:26]
Seth Meyers
Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah. Live and die with the Pittsburgh Steelers. And then I have a healthier relationship with the Boston Red Sox after the incredible Run. We had post 2004. I kind of feel like that's everything I had ever wanted as a kid, and now I'm going to allow myself to have freedom from that.
- [07:43]
Dan Harris
So just back to late night, because you are. You said before you're kind of part of the fire hose. And I don't know exactly what you meant by that, but, like, you are a vector of information at this point which late night TV shows have become. And yeah. Do you think about your responsibility in that light? Do you have a desire to be more heat than light, or is it just make good jokes and keep it moving?
- [08:05]
Seth Meyers
Well, it's interesting because, like, we don't want to, like, turn our backs on things that we think are bad and things that are important because of who they're affecting. But we definitely and certainly post this last election, there's a real effort to be joyous about the way we perform the show, that maintaining joy is a really important piece of strength to have because when people take your joy away, that's effectively a good sign that you've lost. And so again, like, we're not like, hey, we're gonna. This show's not gonna be about bad things anymore. That's how we're gonna be joyful. We're like, no, we're gonna talk about bad things, but we're gonna make. We're having fun. We like being in an audience full of people that has chosen to spend time with us. And everybody here knows it's comedy shows. So we're going to make sure that even when this stuff is serious, we're finding ways to oftentimes in like, tangents or dumb impressions or like, you know, silly visual gags to, like, release the stress and the pressure. And look, it's a fine line because I realize half of what I'm saying is like, oh, be irreverent. And the other half is like, these things are really bad and serious and we can't take them lightly. But ultimately, that's been the alchemy we're trying to hit week in and week out. And I do think since last November, we're getting pretty good at it. We feel like we're delivering on it pretty consistently.
- [09:20]
Dan Harris
I'm gonna deliver a full throated defense of what you just said, and then you can react on the other side. And I know I'm. I'm supposed to be asking questions, but I just want to.
- [09:27]
Seth Meyers
No, no, no. I'm not very excited. It's like, I like that you're now my legal counsel.
- [09:33]
Dan Harris
What Seth meant to say was there is a great quote from. I'm going to mangle the quote. And I can't even remember who said it.
- [09:41]
Seth Meyers
Great.
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Dan Harris
But it's something like, engage joyfully in the sorrows of the world.
- [09:46]
Seth Meyers
Oh, it's really good.
- [09:48]
Dan Harris
And as you said, if you take away the joy, you are depleting our resources to engage effectively.
- [09:54]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
- [09:55]
Dan Harris
So I actually think there's a real public service in what you're doing, and it's not something to be, like, sheepish about.
- [10:02]
Seth Meyers
Well, you know, it's always interesting. Cause you don't want to get. I've been doing this for a long time, and people since Weekend Update days have said, like, what do you think about people who get their news from you? And I've always said, like, don't get your news from me. Like, we're a good secondary source. You know, get your news and then. But this is a different thing that I've, like, come to appreciate, which is, like, people aren't coming to get their news from me, but, like, they're coming to, like, get a collective shared joy from a thing that otherwise would be depressing. And I think sometimes there is a real strength to knowing you're not alone, knowing that your feelings about things are not solitary. Sometimes it's just in the vocabulary we used to talk about things, which is like, oh, you're living in a bubble, or, you know, it's an echo chamber. But, like, there is something to be said for. No, come here. And we're going to lay out things that, based on, like, this moral code that we all thought we shared. Some of us still share it. And we are in a place where we're allowed to say, like, this is bad and this is crazy, but it's also silly. And here's a joke about it. And yeah, it's not that we're just gonna throw our hands up and say, this is how it is now.
- [11:10]
Dan Harris
Yeah, I completely agree. It's like a kind of sustenance. Like, we're in it together. We can laugh at this thing.
- [11:16]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
- [11:16]
Dan Harris
So let's re engage from that standpoint.
- [11:19]
Seth Meyers
And I'm very frustrated that I have now said it twice. And you said it the best in your middle and your very short middle section. You were very succinct about it. So for the listeners, I also think Dan said it best.
- [11:33]
Dan Harris
Well, I suspect that might be the pattern throughout the rest of this interview. So let's. Let's see how it goes.
- [11:39]
Seth Meyers
Okay, good. I'll do it. I'll do it. Really long. And then you just boil it down for.
- [11:45]
Dan Harris
Okay, so let me ask. You'll brush me off if I get too personal here, but you have spoken publicly about kind of your inner atmosphere, having an inner critic. You also wrote a book for kids back in 2022, I believe it's called I'm not scared. You're scared, where you talk about anxiety. So you're on the record talking about inner critic and also having anxiety. I'd just be curious, like, how salient are those phenomena for you internally these days?
- [12:13]
Seth Meyers
It's better. Look, I think the hardest time I ever went through was getting your dream job of SNL and then showing up and realizing everybody there was also, like, the best person the last place they were. And that your bag of tricks is now seems very meager compared to the talent you're sort of stacked up against. And I was probably hired for the wrong thing when I got hired at snl, because I think if Lorne Michaels could go back in time, he would probably say, oh, that guy will be a good writer as opposed to a cast member. And so I had to sort of, like, back my way into the job I was right for. And that was a really rough five years of finding my way there. And then you get a show like Late Night, and it's the same thing, which is you spend the first couple of years aiming for sort of competence so they don't take the show away. And it's only after you feel your legs underneath you that you actually start trying to make it the show you want it to be. You know, those were rough years, too, but nothing. Nothing ever compares to the first five years at snl. And I do think that having survived those and look, it's why so many people, I think, thrive in their years after working at that show is they've already been through the worst gauntlet they're ever gonna go through.
- [13:31]
Dan Harris
What makes it such a gauntlet?
- [13:33]
Seth Meyers
I think it's just weirdly, it's a meritocracy against the very best people in the world. So it's hard to say, like, I was treated unfairly. We all get, you know, our at bats every week. You know, you'd write sketches, you'd read it at the table, and it was pretty clear to me, and obviously everybody else like, oh, no, that wasn't in the best 10 things this week. You know, that sort of happens week in and week out. And you realize certainly there are very kind people there who are doing their best to get the best out of you. But at Some point they're not gonna put you on TV as a favor to you. And for me, the hardest time, again I've talked about this as well, was like, I was in a cast where the other male cast members are like, Will Forte, Andy Samberg, Bill Hader, Jason Sudeikis, Fred Armisen, Kenan Thompson. And, you know, I was writing sketches, and I remember I would be like, man, I would be my seventh choice. You know what I mean? And so. And I've got a rooting interest in me. So, you know, one office over somebody who does not have a rooting interest in me. I'm definitely their seventh choice. And so it was just not seeing a path out. And also, it wasn't that I thought, if only they saw in me what I saw in me. I was like, no, I see the same thing. It's just like, not quite good enough.
- [14:50]
Dan Harris
Is it true I read that there was an incident where you punched a very small hole in the wall?
- [14:56]
Seth Meyers
I opened a door so fast that the handle on the other side went through the wall. So it was like a handle shape hole? Yeah.
- [15:03]
Dan Harris
Okay, that's a little less aggressive.
- [15:05]
Seth Meyers
It was a little less. It was pretty aggressive, though. I mean, I would have loved to have done it with my fist, let's just put it that way.
- [15:11]
Dan Harris
What was the proximate cause of the door incident?
- [15:15]
Seth Meyers
I wrote something that I did think should have made the show, and it didn't make the show. And then my producing partner now, Mike Shoemaker, who was a producer at SNL the time I remember, he said, I'm not gonna have that hole fixed because I want you to have to look at it every time you're in your dressing room and remember what a baby. And then, by the way, this is just. Just to make it clear that I haven't. I'm not fixed the self. Same Shoemaker, who's now a producer on Late Night, he recently had to leave. He's my next door neighbor and my dearest friend. And every time I feel like I'm about to melt down, I just go into his office and I yell in that room. And he just sort of like, absorbs it. I'm not yelling at him. I'm never mad at him. I'm just sort of like, yelling to get it out. Remember those old cartoons where, like, people would, like, yell into a bottle and then the bottle would have the screams and, like, it was like to not wake up a baby or something, and then they bring the screams to the top of the mountain and let it out and you'd hear them. That's like what Shoemaker does. He's like the bottle I yell into, and then he brings it to the top of the mountain. So nobody else that I work with hears the yells. He's my release valve. He missed two weeks for a knee surgery. And I made it all the way until like the last day of the second week and something happened. I was so mad I didn't have Schumacher's office to go to. And I threw a pen against the wall and. And it exploded and left like a Rorschach inkblot on the wall. He got a plaque. Instead of cleaning it, he put a plaque next to it and said, this is what happens when Shoemaker's away. So I'm coming up on, like 25 years in the building. Basically every room I've ever been in has some mark of me being petulant.
- [16:48]
Dan Harris
I don't remember the cartoons you're referencing, but I do remember as a kid, I think I'm a little older than you, There was a character named Willie whistle. And he would argue, but in a whistle.
- [16:58]
Seth Meyers
Oh, wow.
- [16:59]
Dan Harris
Which I always thought was hilariously ridiculous.
- [17:02]
Seth Meyers
That does seem like something a very forward thinking couple therapists would make two people do. Like, just give him whistles and be like, without words.
- [17:09]
Dan Harris
No, he was doing this with pursed lips.
- [17:12]
Seth Meyers
Oh, wow. This was not an actual whistle.
- [17:15]
Dan Harris
No.
- [17:16]
Seth Meyers
Oh, wow. Well, it's a shame he didn't hit it bigger. This seems like a real talent.
- [17:22]
Dan Harris
We'll leave that to the history books. But just back to your petulance. And I share it. This is a. Has been a lifelong struggle for me. As our mutual friend, my brother would tell you. Yeah, how do you manage that now? Especially given that you are the leader of a pretty large organization?
- [17:37]
Seth Meyers
I'm really good. I mean, I don't know if I would be as good without Shoemaker as a real Seth whisperer. And I'm very lucky to have him. But I am cognizant of it being a top down situation where, you know, whatever the host thinks they can get away with, everybody else thinks they can get away with. And so I'm very lucky to work at a place where, you know, we all treat each other with a lot of decency and respect. And it's the kind of place that everybody loves to come to every day, myself included. I should also say, like, it's not like I'm biting my fist ten times a day because people make mistakes. It's like one of the problems is people here are so good at their jobs that when something goes wrong, I'm shocked. And often that's what catches even me off guard. But it's really nice. And I will say, like, just to any parent who's listening, it's harder to have children than it is to have a talk show as far as, like, temper stuff.
- [18:31]
Dan Harris
So for you, the parenting stuff, which you've now done two comedy specials, which everybody should watch, and I'll put links in the show notes. You've done two comedy specials on parenting. So is that a more difficult crucible for your temper than work?
- [18:46]
Seth Meyers
I think, yeah, ultimately, like, because at work, you're still dealing with, like, adults. And so for me, like, what my wife and three children would say is, like, oh, no, he definitely can't act at the show the way he acts at home because he's a lunatic.
- [19:02]
Dan Harris
What would they point to as examples of lunacy?
- [19:05]
Seth Meyers
I have a very. I don't know. It's interesting. I've been doing a bit in my standup now about how my brother and I were really scared about my dad losing his temper. Like, it was the kind of temper that was, like, intimidating. And I feel like I've inherited my dad's temper. But my kids, it's just, like, very, like, neutered. When I, like, lose my temper, they'd, like, all laugh at me, like this.
- [19:27]
Dan Harris
Clown.
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Seth Meyers
Which is, of course, but it's a very healthy reaction to your dad losing his temper because it's like, hey, one, you look dumb. And two, it's not working. It's just like that thing of, like, trying to get three kids out the door is sometimes so much harder than writing and performing a talk show on network television.
- [19:50]
Dan Harris
What are their ages?
- [19:52]
Seth Meyers
9, 7, and 4.
- [19:54]
Dan Harris
Okay, so you're in it.
- [19:56]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, we're in it. I mean. And by the way, they're really good ones. I wouldn't trade any of them in.
- [20:00]
Dan Harris
You mentioned getting the kids out the door. Are there other aspects of parenting that are nails on a chalkboard for you where you're just on tilt?
- [20:09]
Seth Meyers
I'm trying to think. They'd love to come on Dan and do a rebuttal episode where they list them all. I just sometimes can't believe, like, I'll say my oldest son's name six times in a row, and then I'll just say, do you even. Do you hear it? Just out of curiosity, do you hear it? Also, a thing you learn pretty quickly is, like, sarcasm isn't an effective tool when you're trying to get your kids to do something. Like a withering put down doesn't have the the effect you might hope it would with an adult friend.
- [20:44]
Dan Harris
When my son was 4. He's 10 now or he'll be 11 by the time this airs. Actually, you met my son once.
- [20:49]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
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Dan Harris
When he was 4. We took him for one of those full blown hearing tests and his hearing was perfect, but he was just ignoring us all the time. And that persists until this day. It's like my voice is a dog whistle and he's a cat.
- [21:09]
Seth Meyers
I have the interesting thing now, which is my kids are obsessed, especially with my father in law because they see him a lot, he's a big part of their life. And I watch how his daughters react to him. I'm like, oh, it just skips a generation. My kids hear their grandparents talk, but they don't hear their dad talk. But their kids will one day be fascinated by everything I have to say. I just have to wait for that.
- [21:34]
Dan Harris
One of the themes in your comedy, and you really, as stated, draw on parenting as a source for standup.
- [21:42]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
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Dan Harris
And I don't know whether you're interested in meditation or anything like that, but there's. To me, it rhymes with the spirit of meditation, which is bringing a sense of humor to your inevitable foibles and frailties and imperfections.
- [21:55]
Seth Meyers
Yeah. I'm also like, very aware that one of the risks of mining your family for content is that they will one day consume it as they are older. Alexi and I have a nice understanding. Whereas, you know, my wife has veto power over anything I say about her. Whereas your kids obviously less so. And so it's very important for me to always, more often than not, make myself the punchline of the jokes when I'm talking about being a parent as opposed to the kids, because I would like them one day to watch and be like, oh, it's nice that he knew. It's nice that he knew his shortcomings. But it is really fun to do. And you know, as far as meditation, like, I will say that like Alexi and I started doing it. I don't quite know how often she does it anymore. I don't do it with enough regularity. But I've never done it and thought it was not positive. I just have a hard time getting in the scheduled rhythm of doing it.
- [22:49]
Dan Harris
That is super common. And I don't even think it's that big of a problem per se. Like it's good at any dose.
- [22:56]
Seth Meyers
Yeah. And it's a little bit like exercise.
- [22:58]
Dan Harris
Yes.
- [22:58]
Seth Meyers
I don't think it's like, ah, the bummer was I only, I only did it once. I should have done it zero times. Like, no, once is better than zero.
- [23:07]
Dan Harris
What flavor did you do when you did it?
- [23:10]
Seth Meyers
I don't actually know and I think this would be one of the things my wife would point out, which is we had a full instructor sit down with us and I still can't tell you anything about it other than what to do during the actual 20 minutes.
- [23:23]
Dan Harris
Oh, you dropped a clue there. 20 minutes. That's probably TM or transcendental meditation.
- [23:29]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, that's what it was. Is that a good one? How do we feel about that?
- [23:33]
Dan Harris
I feel good about it. It's not what I do, but there's plenty of evidence to show that it's good for you.
- [23:38]
Seth Meyers
Okay, great. Is yours longer or shorter?
- [23:41]
Dan Harris
Mine is super flexible. Matt and I, my brother and his wife Jess, we all do the same flavor which is kind of derived from Buddhist meditation or actually in our case like full on Buddhist meditation. You five minutes is great. I try to do like broken up over the day an hour, but I'm a full time meditation evangelist and I'm not comfortable with the level of hypocrisy that would come with not doing, you know, a significant amount right. Coming up, Seth talks about parenting fears, his evolving relationship with anxiety and career, career longevity and creative diversification, and how he prepares for and shoots his stand up specials, which are excellent by the way. You know when you're spitballing ideas for your website or you're in some sort of creative flow and then you think, okay, how do I actually make this happen? If that's where you get stuck in the web design process, look no further. WIX has you covered. Even with zero design experience, you can make a great looking site. Create a website your way. Whether you want AI to jump in or you prefer to do things yourself, you can get a custom ready to use website in minutes with Wix AI website builder. Just answer a few questions and voila. Customize any detail with the most flexible website editor out there. Get built in solutions for every type of business. WIX is packed with some of the most useful and cool AI features and agents built specifically for SMB so you can grow your business without burning out. Generate unlimited images, website sections, product descriptions and more. Automate email marketing, SEO tasks, inventory management and more. Powering 280/million businesses around the world, Wix started delivering AI solutions with way before it was cool. They've been pioneering website tech for nearly 20 years now. Ready to create your website? Go to Wix.com that's W I X.com this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The new year does not require a new you, but maybe just a less burdened you. And therapy can help more easily identify what is weighing you down and holding you back by by offering an unbiased perspective to help you understand your relationships, your motivations and your emotions. I have found this to be true over and over throughout my life, which is why I continue to do therapy. Everybody in my house has a therapist. We are big believers in the Harris household and of course, in the larger 10% Happier Cinematic Universe. In the benefit of therapy, Better health therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Better help makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com happier that's better. H L P.com happier. You said the thing that I was going to react to about your kids watching your stuff someday. I've worried about that with. As a memoirist, I have some scenes. I'm writing a book right now and there are some scenes where I like describe my son's flatulence. I may decide ultimately to cut that because he, when he's 30, might be justifiably pretty pissed about it.
- [27:10]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, my fear is always like, that other kids will see it, that his peers will see it. At least there's less of a chance that like a 13 year old friend of his is going to read your memoir.
- [27:23]
Dan Harris
That's true.
- [27:24]
Seth Meyers
Whereas like I'm always worried like a parent's gonna put on like my Netflix special and say to their kids, hey, this is Ash's dad. Or this is Axel's dad. We don't show it to my kids yet. And yet, you know, you obviously can't control other parents. And I could see them thinking it might be a novel idea to show them something. And so it's always like never tell a joke that like another kid could use against your child.
- [27:46]
Dan Harris
Right. Even the nine year old hasn't seen your specials.
- [27:50]
Seth Meyers
No, he hasn't yet. Total lack of curiosity. Dan.
- [27:56]
Dan Harris
I am deeply familiar with that.
- [27:58]
Seth Meyers
He's always like, can we watch the new Bill Burr?
- [28:05]
Dan Harris
Speaking of kids, I mentioned this earlier. You did write this book. I'm not scared. You're scared.
- [28:10]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
- [28:10]
Dan Harris
We talked about your experience with the inner critic, especially in those early days on SNL but how big a part of your life is anxiety, if at all?
- [28:19]
Seth Meyers
I don't think I have a ton of anxiety. I mean, I think I'm more anxious about the future and the things I can control than I am over my career. But it took me a long time to get there. You know, I like now that I've tried to diversify the things I do in my career at the same time that I'm hosting a late night show, you know, I'm aware that those are not lifetime appointments. And so I tried very hard to develop things like standup as a skill. And obviously having podcasts is something to do. And so I like that as I'm getting older and you know, again, I'm 51 and I'm proud of myself for like coming up with a way to like control that, which I can control. But a lot of my anxiety just comes from being a parent, having kids that you put into the world and what the world's gonna be. And so, you know, I think. And again, the kids were younger when I wrote the book and I only had two of them at the time. But I'm not scared. You're scared was a lot more about the way kids are and how as a parent, I think you love the idea that your kids would be fearless, except you also want them to be like, careful, you know, and so it's sort of just a book about like that balance between ultimately, you want to raise kids who know what they should and shouldn't be afraid of, and you don't want fear to be a hurdle they have to get over when it's things, you know, they can do, but you also, you don't want them to be lack any risk aversion.
- [29:43]
Dan Harris
Yeah. So it's not like you're particularly angsty or anxious. It's that having three children moving through.
- [29:51]
Seth Meyers
The world, that's where my anxiety is from. Yeah.
- [29:53]
Dan Harris
What's going to happen to them at any given moment?
- [29:55]
Seth Meyers
Yeah. And like, don't get me wrong, I still have, when I do stand up, when I interview a big guest, I'm still driven by butterflies and that sort of anxiety. But I've had enough reps at this point to know that more often than not, it works out pretty well. And so I can actually put one foot in front of the other and go and do those shows.
- [30:16]
Dan Harris
What makes you more nervous? A huge guest or taping a special?
- [30:22]
Seth Meyers
Probably taping a special just because it feels more permanent, you know. And ultimately, when you tape a standup special, for me, it's usually about three to four years worth of material that you've been working on, and you sort of have one chance to make the version that everybody will see for time immemorial. And it's crazy because with jokes, you know, especially ultimately when you have an hour worth of jokes, like some of those jokes you're telling for the fifth time, some of them you're telling for the 60th time, they all have their own life. You want to catch as many of them at their peak as possible. But, like, that's a very hard thing to do. So it's also the anxiety of, like, when are you going to shoot your special? And do you shoot it too early or do you shoot it too late? Where all of a sudden you are falling out of love with a joke, Right? And once you do, you feel like the audience is as well. Even the craziest things, which I think matter the least, which is what to wear and what city to shoot it in. Because when you think of every great special that you love, other than Eddie Murphy, you can't remember what they were dressed like. And the good news is, I'm not gonna. Nobody wants me to dress like that.
- [31:25]
Dan Harris
Anyway, Eddie Murphy came to mind. But also, I kind of remember some of Chappelle's onesies.
- [31:30]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, that's true. That's true. And again, not one where I saw it and was like, ah, that's what I should have done.
- [31:37]
Dan Harris
When you were shooting those specials, is it all one take, or can you do two or three nights in a row and cut it all together?
- [31:43]
Seth Meyers
So you do two. It's fascinating. This is really interesting. You do two in the same night, you tape it twice, like a 7 and a 9:30. And both times I did it, I felt like I got it in the first show. And then my director, Neal Brannon, who directed both of them, said to me, you have it, so just go and have fun with the second show. Be loose, have fun. Which I did both times. And in both cases, we almost used entirely the first one. So the one that internally for me was the one that felt tight and a little bit less joyful was the far better product.
- [32:22]
Dan Harris
Huh?
- [32:23]
Seth Meyers
It just had the crispness to it because it was not observably tight. It was just my own. I don't know. It is a reminder that it's a technical skill. And as much as we watch comedy thinking it's loose, there is actually, like, craft to making it look loose. And when you actually make a internal choice to be loose, it just looks A little worse. Interesting to watch.
- [32:47]
Dan Harris
Yeah. And it's kind of the case for nerves, properly managed. Nerves really can up your game.
- [32:53]
Seth Meyers
Yes. We always used to say at snl, like, nothing was worse than a host who would say they weren't nervous. Because we were always like, oh, you should be. You know what I mean? Like, we do this every week. We're nervous. So, like, you be a little. Because butterflies, I think, are I. Whenever I'm about to, like, go out and do something, and I don't have butterflies, that's where I feel like something's off.
- [33:18]
Dan Harris
I had a guest on the show who made this point. You may have heard this before, but it really landed for me because I still struggle with performance anxiety. Second half of my career was built on having a panic attack on national television. So it's on brand for me to be nervous every time I go on tv. The reframe was. The nerves are a sign that you care.
- [33:39]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, I think that is true. And I'm really happy to do something that I care about that much. And backstage at Late Night, even. And by the way, look, late night's different in that it feels like every night's a home game. And certainly, the longer you do the show, the more you have an expectation that the audience knows what they're there for and they know who you are. You don't have to introduce yourself. So it's the smoothest version of it, but also, you know, it's gonna be on television, and you kind of can't trick yourself into forgetting that. And backstage, right before I walk out, there's a sign on the wall with all the guests and the number of episodes it is. And every night, I'm like, 721, and you still feel like the butterflies. And I actually always think I'm like, that's great. The worst thing would be standing here right now and being like, I know how it's gonna go. Who cares? I feel very lucky to care and to do something that is. While there's consistency to the product, they're a little bit like snowflakes. Like, every episode's a little bit different. And it is fun to find out over the course of the show how this one's gonna be different than the ones before it.
- [34:54]
Dan Harris
Well said. You really have emerged in your 15, 16 years on the show as a very skilled interviewer. Do you have any tricks of the trade? Because people struggle. Human beings struggle listening to other human beings carefully.
- [35:09]
Seth Meyers
I was so lucky. And it was the first time where I felt like, oh, this is actually what learning this skill, I didn't realize at the time, but being an improviser. Right. Like that's what I came up with. I wasn't a standup, I was doing improv comedy in Chicago. And you're part of a troupe and you know, for those who don't know. Right. The key skill to doing a scene with somebody where there's no script and you're coming up with it together on the spot is you have to be a good listener. Because you can't build it if you don't. If you're thinking about the next funny thing you want to say and you're doing your own one man show while another person is in a two person scene with you, it'll be a disaster. So that's where I learned to be a good listener. And also on my show, it is a performance of a conversation. That doesn't mean that the answers are untruthful. But you are doing a conversation for an audience. It's not the same way you would talk if it was just two of you and secluded corner of a bar. So what makes it a better interview is if you're listening and instead of just waiting for your next question, you react in real time to things the guest is saying. You know, I've always had like a pretty good ability to like even as an improviser. You know, the callback where you pull something from earlier in the scene and it's rewarding for an audience that's been listening as well. And I find with my guests, I think they really like those moments where they're like, oh, you still remember something I said three minutes ago. So that's one thing is just being a good listener. And the other thing, which I just so much credit to our research department who work with our segment producers, but they work so hard to make sure. And again, like in this day and age, if somebody doesn't press tour, they might get interviewed 50 times. But we try very hard not to ask things that they were asked. I think there's an appreciation for that as well.
- [36:56]
Dan Harris
So you often know what you're going to ask, but you're staying awake and alert so that you can pivot based on the answer.
- [37:02]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, I think you also, with repetition, you learn there's like a thousand different kinds of talk show guests and you can tell the ones who are like, it's really. They are almost reliant on you asking the seven things you've agreed to ahead of time. You're just prompts for them to do their thing. And then there's other people who you can ask them one question and you realize, like, they don't actually care about what they're going to get to, and they're having fun answering that question. And the more you interrupt, the better they are. And, you know, some people only look at you, Some people only look at the audience. And so that's the other thing is, I think being a good interviewer is, over the course of any given interview, turn into the interviewer that guest needs, as opposed to forcing them to be the kind of guests you respond best to. And again, that makes it fun. We always say, like, when somebody is. I'm trying to think of a kind word to use, but, like, if someone's all over the place as a guest, we love it and we want to have those people back because it's almost more fun to juggle. As a host, you get to juggle more balls. I like talking about politics on our show, but I don't really like talking to politicians because politicians, they never want to have the fun of, like, let's see where this goes. Like, they show up with five answers. They're probably going to give him, no matter how, what questions you ask. And the audience could tell, and they're just like this again, ironically, the exception.
- [38:24]
Dan Harris
To that rule is Donald Trump.
- [38:26]
Seth Meyers
Yes. You could not be more accurate with that answer. And sadly, I've never had a chance to take a run at it.
- [38:31]
Dan Harris
Would you want to?
- [38:33]
Seth Meyers
No, I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to because I don't. I sadly don't think there's like, that breakthrough interview with him that. That's the one got him. You know what I mean? So, and by the way, not for a lack of trying during 2015, 2016, like, we. I will own up to not having taken the early days of that campaign seriously. So we sort of thought, oh, my God, we'll have him on. It'll be such a lark. And fortunately for us, it didn't happen because I, I'm sure there'd be something now that I would not reflect back on fondly because of the. How seriously I take the role of a host. I generally don't like having people on where my role is to make them feel uncomfortable. And so.
- [39:13]
Dan Harris
Right.
- [39:13]
Seth Meyers
I would have been polite. I would have been the nice boy that my parents raised, and I would look back at it and be like, huh, I'm not psyched that picture's out there.
- [39:22]
Dan Harris
Yeah. Speaking of not taking it seriously, I always remember that the Huffington Post Covered Donald Trump's presidency in the early days in the entertainment section of the website.
- [39:32]
Seth Meyers
Yeah.
- [39:32]
Dan Harris
And speaking of criticism, how do you handle criticism either of your work in public or of your work at home?
- [39:42]
Seth Meyers
I feel as though I love a critic who. It's a little bit like being a good listener. Look, if somebody is actually paying attention to the work and has a salient point about where it failed to meet its mark, I think there's a real chance to take something from it. Now, again, we're obviously living in a time where there's a lot of bad faith criticism, and the only upside of bad faith criticism is how quickly you can just fully ignore it. If somebody writes something negative about me on social media, it's pretty easy to just look at the last three things they wrote and get a sense of. Of where they're coming from. I mean, again, I would say I'm again, touchier about criticism at home. Like, I definitely. I would love to find my way to a place to be a little bit more. I wish I could receive constructive criticism better.
- [40:36]
Dan Harris
You want a hack?
- [40:37]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, I would love a hack.
- [40:39]
Dan Harris
This goes back to your reference of the callback while interviewing. Yeah, a hack that I learned a couple of years ago, which I use in interviewing, and actually you noticed it, but didn't have the name for it early on in this interview. But it's also a great way to deal with criticism. It's called reflective listening. So if somebody says something to you, several paragraphs can issue forth from their face hole, and you then learn kind of journalistically to sum up the headlines nonjudgmentally in your own words, but quickly. Yeah, so I use that a ton while I'm interviewing because it gives people the interviewees, even though they probably couldn't articulate it, like an incredible dopamine hit of knowing they've been heard.
- [41:19]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, it worked with me, but with.
- [41:21]
Dan Harris
My wife, and I don't get this right all the time. If she were here, she would give you her 90% still a moron speech. So, like, I'm not putting myself on a pedestal, but I have learned in recent years. And if she's gonna come at me with a complaint, almost always accurate. If I give myself the circuit breaker before I go into defensive mode of just summing up what she's said, it calms both of us down. And when I'm on my game, it can avoid 48 hours of misery.
- [41:50]
Seth Meyers
That's really good. I will say, I think Alexi does that really well. I think after I say something she always has this ability to be like. So if I could summarize, it seems like you're a dumb person, And I'd love for you to maybe go walk around the block and try to think of how to be smarter.
- [42:11]
Dan Harris
Not sure that's what I was talking about, but, I mean, she may.
- [42:15]
Seth Meyers
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
- [42:16]
Dan Harris
Fair enough.
- [42:17]
Seth Meyers
Fair enough.
- [42:19]
Dan Harris
All right, a couple more questions. I'm gonna let you go back to workplace culture, and I'm asking this with some selfish motivation, because most of my career, I was an anchor on various shows at ABC News, but I didn't really run an organization, and now I do. And it's been hard to learn how to not port over the shitty habits I acquired as a network news anchor to this organization. Yeah, from what I've read, you really do, and we talked about this earlier, have a really highly functioning organization, but we didn't get to like the how of that. What have you done to set the tone for inclusion and comfort, even among junior staffers?
- [42:57]
Seth Meyers
Well, I will say my one thing is I've never thought I was good at a single thing I'm not good at. And by that I mean I can write, and that's about it. And again, obviously, I'm gonna host the show, and that part's on me. But I have no visual sense. When it was time for, like, set design, I had no take on that. I have no take on lighting. I have no take on sound. I have no take on anything. And so endowed everybody to do your job the best you can do it, and I will not look over your shoulder. And in return, what I would love is less meetings. Genuinely, I'm the happiest. I am. And the most value I can add to Late Night with Seth Meyers is if I'm sitting in front of my computer writing jokes for the show, or if I'm sitting at my computer and I'm reading the research packet about the guest. What I don't want to do is have a meeting about things that I really believe you guys could figure out on your own. And I think that's one of the things that we do really well. And with my writers, they have all the permission in the world to write what they want to write. And big swings are always encouraged. Nobody gets blamed for, like, big new ideas. But if you take 10 big swings in a row and we don't pick any of them because we don't feel like it's a fit for my voice or the voice of the show, then it's up to you to decide if you want to adjust or if you want to continue to be somebody who does good stuff on the show. But we don't ever have big meetings about the writing has to be more like this or the interviews have to be more like that. We just are slowly all figuring it out together. Another thing, and I don't know how this was for you when you were in the news world. We decided early on, and it's a shoemaker rule, which is we do not do a post mortem after the show. And he said early on, like, the problem. And he said this just from knowing me. He's like, look, after every show, you will have been observant enough to notice seven things you wish went differently. And so if we go back to the office, we'll sit down and those seven things will take us anywhere from an hour to 90 minutes to get through and then we'll all get home two hours later. Or we can wait till tomorrow and see if there even still problems in your head or if you want to, like, move on. And the reality is, like, probably since our staff is good, they will have noticed those six and nine things. And the longer you do the show, the less you have and it's more valuable to just shake it off, go home and see what you're actually mad about tomorrow morning. And the reality is you mostly just want to focus on the next trip to the plate. You learn, like, don't. Don't live in the failures, but rather like, embrace the fact that you get to do it again tomorrow.
- [45:38]
Dan Harris
This shoemaker gentleman seems deeply wise.
- [45:41]
Seth Meyers
I mean, he's the one you really want to have on the podcast if you could ever convince him to.
- [45:45]
Dan Harris
Duly noted.
- [45:45]
Seth Meyers
He is deeply wise. He's also like a real classic New York character who's like, from the Bronx and, like, found his way into Manhattan and really isn't impressed by any of us. You know, it's not like one of those aspirational stories of like, one day I'm going to live there. It's more like, somebody's got to go tell these dummies how to get stuff done.
- [46:10]
Dan Harris
Okay, final question for me. I was struck by something you said to Amy Poehler recently on her show about the importance for you of friendship and loyalty. And the quote was, I like the way that I like who I am through the eyes of my friends.
- [46:29]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, I think it's the thing. And maybe it's a bit of a cop out because I feel like it's probably easier to be a friend than it is to be most things. But I think I'm really good at it. And I think when you're good at being a friend, you end up with really good friends. And I have those. And it's a really. I'm really glad about it. And like, you know, I have friends. I'm still really close to people from high school and really close to people from college and snl. Everywhere I've gone, I feel like I've collected more people that dear friends of mine. You know, during COVID I got to be really close with your brother and a whole new cohort of people. And yeah, it's a really nice thing to go through life with.
- [47:12]
Dan Harris
Yes. This episode is an example of you being a good friend and doing a favor to my brother and coming on the show. So thank you for doing it. I really appreciate it.
- [47:21]
Seth Meyers
I only cozied up to your brother in the first place in hopes that it would lead to me being on the show. You've got it all backwards, Dan. I've gotten nothing from that guy. Been a dead end until this moment.
- [47:34]
Dan Harris
That may or may not come up at our next family dinner.
- [47:38]
Seth Meyers
I really hope it does. I mean, if not, what was the point of me even saying it?
- [47:42]
Dan Harris
Fair enough. Just before I let you go, because this is a podcast, can you just name your podcasts so that people can go listen to them?
- [47:49]
Seth Meyers
Yeah, I do one with my brother called Family Trips with the Myers Brothers and it is a delight. And then I do one while we're speaking about Friends with the Lonely island, which is Andy Samberg and Yora Mitochone and Akiva Shaffer, and it's called the Lonely island and Seth Meyers Podcast. And that's sort of a trip down SNL memory lane. And it's very funny and I've said this a lot, but so much is written about how adult male friendships are withering on the vine and I just can't say it stronger. Start a podcast. It will force you to see your friends once a week and you'll be happy you did.
- [48:25]
Dan Harris
Seth Meyers, thank you. Really appreciate you.
- [48:29]
Seth Meyers
Thank you, Dan.
- [48:35]
Dan Harris
Thank you again to Seth Meyers. Thanks to my brother Matt for pressuring Seth into doing that. Really fun to talk to him. Don't forget to sign up over@danharris.com if you want to check out our new app, 10% with Dan Harris. There's a 14 day free trial every week. Every Tuesday at 4 Eastern, we do live meditations and Q and A sessions. The next one is coming up on January 20th. Finally, a big thank you to everybody who works so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our Managing producer, Marisa Schneiderman is our senior producer, DJ Kashmir is our executive producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.
- [49:24]
Seth Meyers
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Dan Harris
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Seth Meyers
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