Podcast Summary: "The Science Of Grief: What Helps, What Doesn’t, And Why We Don’t Talk About It Enough" | Cody Delostradi
Introduction
In this compelling episode of 10% Happier with Dan Harris, host Dan Harris engages in a profound conversation with Cody Delostradi, a culture editor at The Wall Street Journal magazine and author of the bestselling book The Grief Cure: Looking for the End of Loss. Released on December 9, 2024, this episode delves deep into the multifaceted nature of grief, exploring why society often shies away from discussing loss openly and examining various approaches to coping with grief.
Cody Delostradi’s Personal Journey with Grief
The episode opens with Cody sharing his harrowing personal experience of losing his mother in 2014 to metastatic melanoma. He recounts the impact her death had on his life, especially during his college years, and how it propelled him into a quest to understand and navigate grief.
"She died at home, fortunately in hospice care in 2014. It was harrowing and in a lot of ways it's defined my life." ([06:23])
Cody emphasizes that grief is not limited to the loss of a loved one but can encompass various forms of loss, such as relationships, careers, or financial stability. This broadening of the definition sets the stage for the episode’s exploration of diverse grief experiences.
Cultural Repression of Grief
Dan and Cody discuss the societal tendencies to suppress discussions about death and grief, favoring instead the pursuit of happiness and pleasurable experiences. Cody highlights historical shifts in how grief is perceived and managed, tracing changes from the 18th century to modern times.
"In our culture, we don't often talk forthrightly about loss and grief. We'd rather dwell on the happier stuff." ([00:29])
Cody references Philippe Aries' work, illustrating how past societies openly acknowledged death, whereas contemporary cultures often view it as a burden to be minimized or hidden. This cultural shift has led to a lack of communal support and understanding around grief.
Exploring Therapeutic Approaches to Grief
Cody delves into various methods he experimented with to cope with his loss, ranging from traditional therapies to unconventional approaches.
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Laughter Therapy
Cody recounts his initial skepticism towards laughter therapy and his eventual discovery of its physiological benefits. Through sessions that involved deliberate laughter exercises, he experienced significant physical catharsis.
"I found the physiological catharsis that I felt. I had been so cerebral in my search for ways to feel better." ([33:07])
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AI and Chatbots
Inspired by stories like Joshua Barbo’s use of Project December to recreate his deceased fiance as a chatbot, Cody experimented with creating AI replicas of his mother. While he didn’t find true solace in these interactions, they provided a framework for reflecting on his relationship and posed ethical questions about the future of AI in grief management.
"I found it to be really valuable in that it helped me think of what are the things I would ask her." ([38:17])
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Psilocybin Therapy
Cody discusses the use of psilocybin in transforming his perception of grief. He cites studies where psilocybin helped individuals reframe their suffering, allowing them to view grief as something that can coexist with their lives without dominating them.
"Robin Carhart Harris... helped patients... reframe it and see that it's not something that has to forever take over their life." ([44:21])
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Rituals and Community Support
Emphasizing the importance of personalized rituals and community, Cody highlights how meaningful and inexpensive rituals often provide more value than traditional funerals. He shares his experiences with community-based grief support groups, such as dinner parties for individuals who have experienced similar losses.
"Only 15% said funerals. And the other 85% had very specific, very cheap and very personalized rituals." ([63:05])
Scientific Perspectives on Grief
The conversation extends into the scientific realm, discussing the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) and the controversial inclusion of Prolonged Grief Disorder (PGD).
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Prolonged Grief Disorder
Cody explains how PGD was added to the DSM in March 2022, allowing for the formal recognition and treatment of severe, long-lasting grief. He discusses both the benefits and criticisms of medicalizing grief.
"It's incredibly controversial... some are using the medical lens and others are not." ([12:55])
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Grief as an Addiction
Exploring a study by Mary Frances O’Connor, Cody explains how grief can function similarly to addiction, where the act of grieving becomes neurologically rewarding, making it difficult for individuals to move past their loss.
"Their brains lit up in the nucleus accumbens, which is a region that's associated with reward." ([44:21])
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Memory Deletion and Ethical Implications
Cody touches on emerging scientific research into memory deletion as a potential treatment for grief, discussing its current limitations and the profound ethical questions it raises.
"Is this something we would want to do? I think some people... consider what would it be like to not remember this." ([71:34])
Importance of Rituals and Community
A significant part of the discussion centers around the role of rituals and community in healing from grief. Cody advocates for creating personalized, repeatable rituals that honor the deceased and allow individuals to continuously engage with their memories in a healthy manner.
"Being able to create rituals for yourself... something where you can be constantly, not in a dysfunctional way, but coming back to just like looking at their life and really trying to consider who this person was and celebrating them." ([63:05])
He contrasts this with the traditional funeral, which often serves as a one-time event rather than an ongoing process of remembrance and celebration.
Living with Grief
Towards the end of the episode, Cody reflects on the inevitability of living with grief rather than seeking a definitive cure. He emphasizes the importance of integrating grief into one’s life, allowing for coexistence with love and memories without letting it overshadow one’s existence.
"I'm more at a place now, at least where I'm able to view it as not something that has to be gotten rid of or tamped down or cured or solved, and is something instead that gets to coexist with and even to some degree be love." ([68:00])
Conclusions and Final Thoughts
Cody concludes that while various therapies and technologies can provide new perspectives and tools for managing grief, the fundamental process involves honest reflection and acceptance. He advocates for greater societal openness about grief, allowing individuals to receive the support they need without stigma.
"Every generation, every person really must relearn the truths of grief for themselves. There may be no substitute for going through it at the end of it all." ([67:00])
He underscores that grief is a universal experience, deeply rooted in human existence, and that fostering a compassionate community can significantly aid in the healing process.
Notable Quotes
- "Closure doesn't exist and the five stages of grief may not be the most useful framework." ([67:00])
- "Being able to sit with it and not let the grief overtake you is essential." ([51:01])
- "Grief isn't something that you get to solve, unfortunately. Acknowledging and fully understanding that's not how it works." ([60:00])
Final Thoughts
This episode serves as a thoughtful exploration of grief, blending personal narrative with scientific research and cultural analysis. Cody Delostradi offers a nuanced perspective on coping with loss, advocating for personalized rituals, community support, and an honest confrontation with grief’s enduring presence in our lives. Listeners are encouraged to rethink their approach to grief, moving away from societal repression towards a more open and compassionate dialogue.
For those interested in further exploring these themes, Cody Delostradi’s book, The Grief Cure: Looking for the End of Loss, is available on Amazon and at local bookstores.