Podcast Summary: 10% Happier with Dan Harris

Episode: The Science of Self-Hypnosis | Dr. David Spiegel
Date: August 18, 2025
Host: Dan Harris
Guest: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford Medical School

Overview

In this episode, Dan Harris explores the world of self-hypnosis with Dr. David Spiegel, a renowned hypnosis researcher and psychiatrist at Stanford. The discussion ranges from defining hypnosis, debunking myths, and understanding its scientific underpinnings, to practical demonstrations—including a live hypnosis exercise aimed at Dan's airplane claustrophobia. It’s an approachable, often humorous guide to a misunderstood topic, rich with practical takeaways for anxiety, pain, and personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining Hypnosis vs. Stereotypes

• Hypnosis Defined: Dr. Spiegel describes it as "believed-in imagination," a state of highly focused attention where one is deeply immersed, akin to a flow state (07:45).
• Not Stage Hypnosis: Stage hypnosis is genuine in some ways but relies on selecting highly hypnotizable people. Its depiction is misleading, focusing more on performance than therapeutic benefit (08:48).
• "All hypnosis is really self-hypnosis." – Dr. Spiegel (10:55)
  • True hypnosis is an exercise in agency and self-regulation, not having something done ‘to you’.

Who is Hypnotizable?

• Genetics & Development: Hypnotizability is influenced by both genes (e.g., COMT gene related to dopamine function) and childhood experiences, especially imaginative play or trauma (11:45).
• “By the time you're in your early 20s, your hypnotizability is about as much as it's going to be throughout your adult life. It's as stable as IQ at that point.” – Dr. Spiegel (12:10)

Use Cases & Scientific Evidence

• Clinical Uses: Effective for anxiety, stress, pain relief (including surgical pain), habit change (smoking, eating), and insomnia (13:37).
• Spiegel referenced a clinical trial:
  • Patients using self-hypnosis for surgery had significantly lower pain and anxiety levels and needed less medication, compared to standard care (14:24).
  • “For the hypnosis group, it was 1 out of 10 [pain]... anxiety levels were even more different... and fewer procedural complications too.” (15:10)

How Does Hypnosis Work?

• Neurological Mechanisms: fMRI studies show that hypnosis:
  • Reduces activity in the brain’s salience or “alarm” network (anterior cingulate cortex).
  • Increases connectivity between executive control networks and interoception (body awareness).
  • Lowers activity in the “default mode network,” quieting self-judgment and overthinking (17:45).
• “You are going into a state where you have expanded your ability to alter your perception to regulate how your body is reacting.” – Dr. Spiegel (20:57)

Demonstration: Hypnotizability Test (Hand Levitation)

[27:55] Dr. Spiegel guides Dan through a test:

• Instructions involve looking up, closing eyes, imagining floating, and experiencing lightness and movement in the left hand.
• Dan reports “light and tingly” sensations, and some upward movement in his hand (“mildly irresistible upward momentum”) (34:45).
• Dr. Spiegel scores Dan as "moderately hypnotizable" (34:00).

Memorable Quote:
“It was there. Good. I like that phrase, a mildly irresistible upward momentum.” – Dr. Spiegel (35:09)

Treating Phobias with Self-Hypnosis

• Dan’s Claustrophobia: Dan describes anxiety about flying; Dr. Spiegel frames panic as a feedback loop between anxiety, bodily response, and interpretation.
• Self-Hypnosis Protocol ([38:12] onwards):
  1. Induce relaxation and focused attention (eye gaze, deep breathing, floating imagery).
  2. Reframe the experience:
     • View the airplane as an extension of one’s body and the pilot as an extension of the brain (44:16).
     • Differentiate between possibility and probability (45:25).

Practical Steps (Recapped at 52:55):

• Look up, close eyes, deep nasal breathing, imagine floating.
• Bring up the anxiety-triggering situation while reframing cognitively.
• Emphasize the difference between possible and probable dangers.
• (Optional) Use arm levitation as a demonstration of bodily control.
• Exit state by counting down and opening eyes.

Dan’s Result: Reports much lower anxiety thinking about flying; “zero to one” after the exercise (47:42).

Hypnosis vs Other Therapies

• Vs. Exposure Therapy: Hypnosis focuses on bodily relaxation and positive reframing vs. repeated direct exposure.
  • “You're facing what you're anxious about, but you're experiencing mastery, not submission to or struggle with the psychophysiological anxiety, you're mastering it.” – Dr. Spiegel (52:05)
• Vs. Meditation: Hypnosis is more goal- and solution-oriented, while meditation (especially mindfulness) emphasizes open awareness and acceptance (61:04).
  • “With meditation, you're not supposed to be intentional. ... With hypnosis, it's fine to be intentional.” (61:32)

The Role of the Eyes

• Why Eyes Upwards?: Looking up with eyes closed signals a transition to a focused, inner state without going to sleep. Related mechanisms in meditation and therapies like EMDR/brainspotting are discussed (66:25).

Deep Breathing (Cyclic Sighing)

• Physiological Basis: Emphasized as a standalone tool, especially to stop panic. Longer out-breaths stimulate parasympathetic relaxation (71:05).
  • "Slow exhale increases pressure in the chest, ... and the parasympathetic, the anti-arousal part ... takes over." (70:45)

Practice Frequency & Duration

• For entrenched anxieties/phobias, practice several times a day before exposure; it can sometimes be “one and done,” but more often requires refreshers (51:57, 72:38).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Stage Hypnosis vs. Clinical:
  “There's a kernel of truth in stage hypnosis, but also a lot of caricature.” – Dan Harris (09:54)

• On Agency:
  “Far from being a loss of agency, it is actually a massive increase in agency.” – Dan Harris (23:04)

• On Imagery and Bodily Change:
  “Hypnosis is an extraordinary way of controlling what's going on in parts of your body you didn't think you could control at all.” – Dr. Spiegel (22:43)

• On Meditation vs. Hypnosis:
  “Meditation involves open presence... Hypnosis is more directed at solving a problem.” – Dr. Spiegel (61:04)

• On Reframing Fear:
  “It’s a nice reframing. It's not a prison. It's an example of my agency of choosing to get somewhere.” – Dan Harris (44:16)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [07:45] — Spiegel’s definition of hypnosis
• [10:55] — “All hypnosis is really self-hypnosis”
• [13:37] — Clinical applications and evidence
• [17:45] — What happens in the brain during hypnosis
• [27:55] — Hand/arm hypnotizability demonstration
• [38:12] — Self-hypnosis exercise for Dan’s airplane anxiety
• [44:16] — Reframing airplanes as extensions of the body/mind
• [52:55] — Step-by-step self-hypnosis recap for listeners
• [61:04] — Comparison: hypnosis and meditation
• [66:25] — Why eye position matters in hypnosis/other therapies
• [71:05] — Breathing techniques and panic

Resources Mentioned

• Reverie App: Dr. Spiegel’s app for self-hypnosis (reverie.com)
  • First week free; includes specific programs like fear of flying.
• Book: Trance and Treatment by Dr. David Spiegel

Quick Self-Hypnosis Steps You Can Try

1. Sit comfortably, look up as high as you can, and close your eyes while maintaining the upward gaze.
2. Begin deep, nasal in-breaths, exhaling slowly through the mouth. Imagine floating in a body of water or space.
3. Bring to mind the problem or situation you want to address.
4. Reframe it cognitively using personalized imagery (e.g., airplane as extension of body).
5. Focus on the physical sensations of calm, agency, and control.
6. When ready, count down (3-2-1), open your eyes, and return attention to the room.

Final Takeaways

• Hypnosis and self-hypnosis are safe, evidence-based tools for immediate intervention in anxiety, pain, habits, and more.
• The key is agency: “You’re not giving up control, you’re gaining it.”
• Regular, intentional practice can empower people to address deep-seated fears—and the technique is accessible to most.
• For those interested, Dr. Spiegel’s Reverie app offers interactive, tailored sessions for various concerns.

"Notice how much agency you have over how you react to the same potentially stressful situation and how you did it—by going into the state of self hypnosis and starting with your body, the thing you do control."
—Dr. David Spiegel (47:53)