10% Happier with Dan Harris Episode: Why Work Feels So Hard — And What to Do About It
Original Air Date: November 23, 2025
Guest Host: Dr. Laurie Santos (Happiness Lab)

Episode Overview

In this candid crossover episode—originally aired on Dr. Laurie Santos's podcast, The Happiness Lab—Dan Harris becomes the interview subject, delving into the complexities of workplace stress, mindfulness, sleep, envy, and the pivotal importance of psychological safety at work. The conversation is deeply personal and highly practical, offering actionable insights for handling the emotional and psychological difficulties that so often accompany modern work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing the Hard: Radical Acceptance at Work

• The Dual Nature of Work
  Dan reflects on the paradoxical role of work as both a source of meaning and of significant stress.

  "Work has also been the source of so much purpose and meaning and joy and connection...But...it’s complicated." — Dan Harris, 06:56

• Radical Acceptance
  The practice involves acknowledging rather than resisting difficult emotions.
  Dan explains mindfulness meditation as a practical tool for learning to sit with discomfort:

  "The only way out is through — to feel the difficult feelings instead of letting them own you." — Dan Harris, 06:56
  Steps to practice mindfulness meditation:

  • Sit comfortably, bring attention to a neutral sensory object (e.g., breath, body).
  • Notice distractions or difficult emotions.
  • Gently return focus, understanding that getting lost and beginning again is the practice.

2. Sitting with Simmering Emotions

• The Simmering After Work
  Dan recounts repeated experiences of leaving work “in agony,” then questioning the source of his unhappiness during his walk home.
  He notes the relief of time-limited meditation, which helps separate self from overwhelming thought patterns:

  "Your job is to eventually wake up...oh, this is just a set of thoughts with accompanying physical sensations that…I can get increasingly familiar with, but they aren't facts." — Dan Harris, 10:17

• Cognitive Diffusion
  Laurie offers playful alternatives for gaining distance from thoughts (e.g., singing thoughts to a pop tune or imagining them scrolling away like Star Wars text).
  This echoes the core of meditation: making thoughts less sticky and more observable.

• Non-Identification with Emotions
  Dan introduces Joseph Goldstein’s linguistic shift:

  "Instead of saying 'I’m angry,' you can say, 'there is anger.'...You are just a process, right? And so anger is a passing storm." — Dan Harris, 14:14
  Laurie emphasizes that experiencing emotions as processes reveals that even strong feelings are transient:
  "This was not nearly as permanent as I assumed this would be. This was not nearly as intractable as I assumed it would be." — Laurie Santos, 15:56

3. The Power of Motivation and Purpose at Work

• Clarifying Your North Star
  Dan describes intentionally setting his motivation each day, making it concrete with a tattoo (“F.T.B.O.A.B.”—For The Benefit Of All Beings):

  "My job is to make awesome shit that helps people do their lives better and to work on the relationships in my life, including my relationship with myself." — Dan Harris, 18:03

• Science of Purpose
  Laurie points to abundant research supporting the practical and emotional benefits of having (and regularly remembering) a meaningful purpose, especially when the purpose is other-oriented rather than self-focused.

  "The real kind of bang for your energy and your buck in terms of what's going to boost your wellbeing is taking time to do stuff for other people." — Laurie Santos, 20:47

• ‘Wise Selfishness’
  Dan cites the Dalai Lama’s phrase, emphasizing that altruism is ultimately also the best strategy for personal wellbeing:

  "If you want to do selfishness right, you will be altruistic because it is what will lead to your greatest happiness." — Dan Harris, 24:59 Laurie builds on this, noting that giving to others grows everyone’s wellbeing collectively.

4. Service, Loneliness, and Doing Good at Work

• Loneliness at Work
  Laurie highlights research showing workplace loneliness is rampant and reduces happiness. The most effective remedy: reaching out and helping others.

  "Doing nice for other people is kind of like this cure all...it should be kind of your go to move whenever you're feeling bad about anything, honestly." — Laurie Santos, 26:15

5. Envy, Social Comparison, and Mudita Meditation

• The Pain of Comparison
  Both Dan and Laurie admit to comparing themselves to more outwardly successful peers—and feeling worse for it.

  "It's very common that I'll look at somebody who...is kicking ass, and I can, you know, feel badly about myself or feel angry at them, or feel like the world is unfair." — Dan Harris, 27:33

• Mudita: Joy in Others’ Success
  Dan recommends mudita meditation (sympathetic joy)—a structured method for counteracting envy by intentionally wishing success for others:

  "...What you want is to become the type of person who people love to call with good news. That's who you want to be." — Dan Harris, 27:33

• Misconceptions of Social Comparison
  Laurie discusses studies revealing people grossly overestimate others' successes and underestimate their struggles.

  "We're assuming that like maybe 20 to 30% more great things are happening to people than are really happening to them...with the bad things...we assume that nobody's going through the bad stuff that we're going through, but yet again, everybody is." — Laurie Santos, 30:53
  Practice reframing—ask if you really want what others have, given the hidden sacrifices.

6. Systemic Inequities and Fierce Self-Compassion

• Legitimacy of Structural Frustration
  Dan and Laurie differentiate between generalized envy and legitimate anger over structural inequity at work.

  "I believe there are just all sorts of unearned benefits that people who look like me get in the workplace. And...the frustration...from marginalized communities...seems like in a different category..." — Dan Harris, 35:58

• Self Compassion as Resource
  Laurie references Kristin Neff's work on "fierce self-compassion," crucial for fighting injustice and coping with the toll it takes:

  "Treating yourself with kindness first...can give you the fierceness that you need...to fight some of these problems." — Laurie Santos, 36:32 Dan echoes:
  "If you care about all of that...it's hard to do that if you're a mess...That's not self-indulgent, that's mission critical." — Dan Harris, 38:53

7. Sleep, Rumination, and Nighttime Practices

• The Ripple Effect of Insomnia
  Dan discusses severe insomnia during a stressful period of professional separation:

  "...I dealt with a lot of anger and fear that led to insomnia, which of course made all of the anger and fear worse." — Dan Harris, 40:16

• Practical Sleep Tools

  • Sleep hygiene basics (cold, dark room, avoiding screens, morning light, exercise).
  • Walking meditation as an antidote to nighttime anxiety and restlessness:

    "If you stay in bed and toss and turn, you're teaching the brain that the bed is a place to struggle as opposed to a place to sleep....So I will often do 5, 10, 15 minutes of walking meditation before bed." — Dan Harris, 42:03

  • Cognitive “self-talk” when insomnia arises:

    "No, dude, you've been through this a million times. Even if you get no sleep tonight, you will be fine." — Dan Harris, 42:03

• Letting Go of Resistance
  Laurie on giving oneself permission to sleep poorly as a way to relax into sleep:

  "Just being like, it's gonna be fine. It's okay. You've dealt with it before, Lara, you'll deal with it again. It's just so powerful..." — Laurie Santos, 46:04

8. The Manager’s Mandate: Psychological Safety and Communication

• Psychological Safety
  Dan argues that the single most underrated management skill is psychological safety—a culture where everyone can safely speak up.

  "There was one big study done internally at Google...the common denominator among the best performing teams...was psychological safety..." — Dan Harris, 49:07

• Practical Tactics for Managers

  • Calling on junior people gently
  • Openly rewarding candor (especially criticism)
  • Reflective listening: Paraphrasing colleagues’ comments to ensure understanding before responding.

    "It gives your interlocutor what every human being wants desperately...which is to be seen and heard. And...it's a circuit breaker on your own reflexive, reactive response." — Dan Harris, 49:07
    Laurie adds a useful upgrade:
    "...Follow that with, did I get that right or did I miss anything? And that allows this sort of cyclical activity...making sure we kind of understand each other." — Laurie Santos, 53:18

• Self-Inspection for Leaders

  • Dan relays a question from coach Jerry Colonna:

    "How am I complicit in the conditions I say I don't want?" — Dan Harris, 54:44

• Managerial Blindspots
  Laurie references research showing those in power often underestimate the profound influence their words and actions have on employees. Empathy and self-reflection are essential.

9. Structural Solutions: Belonging, Connection, and Engagement

• The Power of Social Connection at Work
  Laurie cites a large study correlating workplace happiness less with salary or work-life balance, and most with "sense of belonging"—especially having a best friend at work:

  "The biggest thing that mattered the most is your sense of belonging at work..." — Laurie Santos, 57:50

• Practical Strategies for Connection

  • In remote teams, intentionally build unstructured social time, e.g., starting meetings with 10 minutes of informal conversation.
  • Managers should express specific, meaningful gratitude and recognition for staff contributions.
  • Personal touches (e.g., remembering birthdays with a note acknowledging achievements).
  • Laurie:

    "Those are the simple psychological techniques that make people feel like it mattered that I showed up at work today..." — Laurie Santos, 60:44

• Personal Anecdote on Recognition
  Dan recalls the impact of a personal congratulatory email from Disney CEO Bob Iger, underscoring the power of recognition even in large organizations.

  "He took a non-trivial amount of his time as the CEO...to really correspond with me about the birth of my child." — Dan Harris, 63:57

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Mindfulness:

  "Meditation is like a bicep curl for your brain, and it really changes the structure of the brain."
  — Dan Harris, 06:56

• On Envy and Joy for Others:

  "Every time a friend of mine succeeds, a little part of me dies. It is so natural to be jealous, but there's a way to counteract that..."
  — Dan Harris, 27:33

• On Managing Teams:

  "The fish is always going to rot from the head. And so I've really tried to develop the reflex of taking the full responsibility for whatever's going wrong on the team."
  — Dan Harris, 54:44

Key Segment Timestamps

• [06:56] Radical acceptance & mindfulness 101 for workplace stress
• [10:17] Managing “simmering” workplace resentment and separating thoughts from self
• [14:14] Disidentification with emotions: “There is anger”
• [18:03] Motivation, intentionality, and setting an altruistic North Star
• [24:59] Wise selfishness and the feedback loop of helping others
• [27:33] Envy, Mudita meditation, and the reality of comparison
• [35:58] Grappling with justified resentment and structural workplace inequities
• [40:16] Sleep, stress, and walking meditation as a coping tool
• [49:07] Management, psychological safety, and reflective listening in practice
• [54:44] Taking responsibility as a leader; "How am I complicit?"
• [57:50] Research on workplace happiness, belonging, and the role of managers
• [63:57] Personal touch and recognition from leadership

Episode Tone

Candid, accessible, and pragmatic, with a blend of warmth, self-deprecation, and hope. Both speakers are open about their own flaws and missteps, often interspersing scientific findings and ancient wisdom with relatable anecdotes, practical instructions, and a touch of humor.

Takeaways

• Sitting with and accepting discomfort is a core tool for weathering work stress.
• Workplace happiness hinges more on belonging, purpose, and connection than salary or perks.
• Mindfulness, cognitive re-appraisal, gratitude, self-compassion, and service are all powerful interventions.
• Psychological safety and reflective communication are critical for managers.
• Systemic factors—while harder to change—shouldn’t be ignored, and efforts to improve them go hand-in-hand with individual resilience.

This episode is a treasure trove of actionable wisdom, gentle reminders, and evidence-based guidance for anyone yearning to feel less overwhelmed—and more fulfilled—at work.